Video Interview, Paul Allen, November 1, 2012
- PAUL ALLEN: This is perfect.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Just for the record on tape,
- give us the correct spelling of your first and last name
- as you would like it to appear.
- PAUL ALLEN: My name is Paul Allen, P-A-U-L. A-L-L-E-N.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So Paul, let's just start off just very
- generally about ImageOut.
- It just celebrated twenty years.
- Just talk to me about, from your own point of view,
- as much as you know, about the significance
- of having this event.
- It started out as just a little grassroots idea
- into this full-fledged, largest film festival
- outside of New York City event.
- PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, I think it's very significant that we
- have twenty years of ImageOut.
- It's-- start that again.
- This is actually one of the hardest questions, I think,
- because it's so big.
- So the significance of ImageOut, celebrating twenty years.
- It started as a community based organization
- in the flowering of queer culture
- in the 1990s, that was part of that existential struggle
- with the AIDS epidemic, and all the political
- struggles before that.
- And it really manifests as a cultural sensibility
- in the mid-nineties.
- And part of that, there were a group of local activists
- and artist activists and they came together,
- that Rochester should have this gay and lesbian film
- festival to take advantage of all the great gay and lesbian
- movies that were coming out then.
- And I think that spirit of grassroots
- carries on to this day.
- That the people who produce ImageOut out
- now are regular people who have an interest
- in bringing great LGBT cinema to Rochester for this audience.
- And I think that's its strength, is
- that it's a community organization, different from
- and a lot of other festivals, where
- they have a professional staff.
- We don't have professional staff,
- and we manage to get by using volunteer labor, which
- has its own troubles, but it makes
- us really resilient through the recent economic downturn.
- Things have been better for us than for most,
- and allowing us to have this really strong twentieth
- anniversary just now.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And I'm going to segregate myself away
- from ImageOut like I know nothing about it here.
- But talk to me about ImageOut as more than just a film festival.
- PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, ImageOut's more than just the film
- festival.
- It's really a community and it's a community
- on many different levels.
- There's the community of people producing it,
- the ImageOut family.
- There's the community of supporters
- who feel connected to something big,
- and dynamic, and interesting in this community that they
- help out with.
- And then the audience that comes to the cinema,
- and sees us, and sees all the movies there.
- They get a sense of being part of this really
- great, strong, vibrant LGBT community
- that exists in Rochester.
- I think ImageOut has been a really good platform
- for highlighting that, and showing people
- that that exists here, and you can be part of it.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to explore that
- just a little bit more.
- ImageOut-- I liked your word that you used, platform,
- because how does ImageOut help the LGBT cause
- within our community, the activism, the awareness,
- the politics?
- PAUL ALLEN: Yeah.
- I think ImageOut really helps the LGBT community in Rochester
- by being a flagship cultural event.
- So distinct from Pride, which is this big celebration,
- very rowdy.
- The kind of visuals for ImageOut are much more normal,
- mainstream.
- So people can kind of see LGBT culture
- is something non-threatening, if you like,
- and as something equally valuable to the community
- to the other festivals that we have here.
- So it's, in a sense, an air of respectability to LGBT.
- But beyond that, visibility generally.
- In my time here, I've seen a shift in the last ten years
- where initially people were reluctant to be
- out and visible.
- But now, I think, that's really a nonissue for a lot of people,
- and part of it is having community organizations that
- are respected and it's not something to be ashamed of.
- You can really be out and be a respected
- member of this community.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, and I want to follow-up
- on that, over the course of ten years or so.
- ImageOut has really found its place at the cultural table
- here in Rochester.
- How significant is that?
- PAUL ALLEN: I want to answer a different question on that.
- So I'm just kind of formulating it, and then I'll start it.
- So the significance of--
- no.
- ImageOut is on a journey, and it's a journey finding itself
- as a cultural institution.
- And we definitely have this grassroots character,
- and that's taken us a long way.
- And it's taken us to this point now where
- we are on a par with a lot of other cultural organizations
- in the community, and we engage with them,
- we collaborate with them, co-producing events,
- co-marketing.
- And so we've really arrived on the cultural scene
- as something that's really integral to the community.
- And particularly for the film community,
- it's the big festival now, and working
- with the different venues, such as the Little
- Theater, and WXXI, and the George Eastman House,
- and the Dryden Theater.
- We're recognized by them as a really vital partner
- for their film mission.
- So I think there's a lot of great collaborative
- opportunities, and those are definitely
- growing in the future.
- So I see for ImageOut, it's really a process,
- and we've arrived but we're not done yet.
- We're still going.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: The very essence of this journey that we're on,
- and partnering with some of the bigger, of more well-known,
- established organizations in our community, in a sense,
- it's using ImageOut as a way of making,
- obviously, gays and lesbians more visible in the community.
- But it's also sending a clear message
- to these more established organizations
- that we have something to contribute.
- Any thoughts on that?
- PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, I think ImageOut can contribute
- a lot to the life of this community
- beyond just our LGBT audience.
- That especially partnering with other organizations,
- we enrich their content as well by--
- there's many different levels.
- So they have outreach to a new audience, the LGBT audience,
- and they bring new and interesting stories, and art,
- and culture to their existing audience,
- and make themselves relevant to what's going on in our country
- at this time.
- So I think ImageOut is a really great conduit
- for a lot of these things that are happening in culture,
- and we can facilitate that in Rochester,
- and as part of the cultural landscape here,
- really bring that here.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So let's shift gears just a little bit
- and jump--
- I think one-- and again, I'll try and segregate myself
- from being actively involved with your organization--
- but one of the successes to me for ImageOut
- is that it has always been, and it prides itself
- in being accessible to everyone.
- That diversity is a key component of what ImageOut is
- and what it provides for this community.
- Can you talk to me about, particularly
- the outreach efforts, and making sure
- that anyone in this community who wants to participate
- has an opportunity to do so.
- PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, diversity is a really important issue
- for ImageOut, particularly LGBT being traditionally
- a marginalized community, that we're
- very sensitive to that issue.
- So part of our values includes creating safe space
- for people of all descriptions to come and enjoy
- what we have to offer.
- And we have a very active outreach program
- that, historically, has been built up by volunteers bringing
- their particular interests.
- So we've had lots of youth outreach.
- We've had our outreach to the deaf and hard
- of hearing communities.
- So we bring ASL interpreting to a lot of screenings.
- And new things include outreach to seniors
- via ticket discounts, and accessibility is always
- an important issue, such as, making sure
- that people with mobility issues are
- able to access the facilities that we choose to use,
- and that kind of thing.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm going to jump around here a little bit.
- Talking about the importance of ImageOut
- being a community builder for the LGBT community,
- and the importance of be able to see ourselves up
- on that screen.
- PAUL ALLEN: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And how does that help us, again,
- I want to say the LGBT cause, but I'm trying
- to think of a better word.
- PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, so for the LGBT community in Rochester,
- ImageOut has a special niche that's
- complemented by organizations like the GAGV,
- and Pride, Out & Equal, and other organizations
- that do health and human services
- and professional networking.
- What ImageOut is doing, its mission
- is really around culture, and supporting LGBT identity
- in this community.
- So how people are able to feel about themselves
- by having their stories represented on screen.
- So contrast that with twenty years ago,
- when most cinema that you could see
- didn't feature positive representations of gay
- and lesbians, and transgender people
- were basically invisible.
- And what we've been trying to do with ImageOut out
- is to create representations that
- mirror the aspects of our lives as LGBT people,
- and to bring that to Rochester, to give people here something
- to relate to, to think about, to talk about,
- to share with their community as a support.
- And some things are definitely-- you don't relate to them.
- Not everyone is a bear.
- Not everyone is trans.
- Not everyone is a circuit boy.
- So there's the stories that are outside of our experience,
- yet they resonate somehow, that you can see these movies
- and relate to someone who is an outsider,
- but they can get acceptance somehow.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: This is going to be a two-sided question.
- I'll focus on the first half.
- Again, you're not from here, but you've
- come to know the Rochester community very well.
- What does it say about this Rochester community as a whole,
- and the size city that we are, we're not a big city, to be
- able to support, for twenty years, a gay and lesbian film
- festival?
- PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, I think Rochester
- is a very special community, because it's not a large city,
- and yet it has a really vibrant gay and lesbian,
- transgender community here.
- And that's remarkable, and it has a long history,
- and it makes it kind of unique, and it
- makes it very fertile for an organization like ImageOut
- to really flourish here.
- Because there is a strong community, a strong activist
- community, a strong socially minded community,
- that's willing to support its community organizations
- so that they can bring unique programming to this community.
- And so it's a virtuous cycle of community organizations
- building community that then helps to support
- those community organizations.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And then the flip side of this question
- is, how has ImageOut helped put Rochester on the map?
- And I'm thinking more in terms of the international map
- really.
- For a small city like Rochester to be so well respected in
- regards to film festivals.
- ImageOut has a big part--
- PAUL ALLEN: I'm the wrong person to ask about this,
- but we'll go ahead.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I already asked Michael.
- He answered it.
- PAUL ALLEN: Yeah.
- So, (pause)
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Let me ask it a slightly different way.
- PAUL ALLEN: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Maybe it's not so much about putting us
- on the map.
- But from what you know now, how does ImageOut stack up
- to a lot of the gay and lesbian film festivals
- across the country?
- PAUL ALLEN: Great.
- That's the question I really can answer.
- I'm really proud of ImageOut.
- So I've had the opportunity to go to other cities
- and attend their film festivals, and a lot of the films
- are the same, but the community is far from the same.
- And that's something really unique in Rochester.
- The sense that you go into these screenings,
- and because of the size of our community,
- you can see a lot of people that you recognize, and friends,
- and it's a great way to go out.
- And it's the big event.
- So for instance, going to the Toronto Film Festival,
- it's a fantastic festival, really, really great movies,
- but it doesn't have that same sense of community
- that we have.
- Because they're such a big city, they
- have so many other things going on.
- Inside Out, their festival, is just one of the things.
- ImageOut is the big thing in Rochester when it happens,
- and the LGBT community comes out and supports it,
- and sees their friends out there,
- makes new friends, new conversations,
- and that's the real wonderful thing about ImageOut
- in Rochester.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: We just have one more question here.
- ImageOut is not just for gays and lesbians.
- And it's something we've been trying
- to work on for many years now, trying
- to make this a community festival, not just
- a gay and lesbian festival.
- Talk to me about some of the work
- that you've been trying to do to open up those doors.
- And have we succeeded?
- PAUL ALLEN: Yeah.
- The focus of ImageOut really remains
- in providing a community for LGBT people,
- but it has a purpose beyond that.
- And I think it's reflecting what's
- happening in this country, as LGBT people gain more
- acceptance from the broader society, that it's not
- seen as so distinct anymore, and that's mirrored in ImageOut.
- With a lot of our audience is actually
- straight people who are curious, interested,
- would like to see what's going on.
- They have friends that have invited
- them to come check it out.
- Because the movies are really great,
- and have stories that are not--
- they're not just for LGBT people.
- They're really for a broad audience.
- And I see that really evolving.
- twenty years after the new queer cinema,
- there's a new new queer cinema, that's
- less about explicit gay and lesbian, trans stories,
- and more about the human condition.
- And those are the typical arthouse movies
- that any cinema lover would find something in and really
- appreciate.
- And so I see that, the next five and ten years, that's, I
- believe, where our community is heading,
- and where the film festival will be heading,
- because those will be the movies that are being made.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm going to just look at my notes here.
- So let's just step away from ImageOut for a moment
- here, because you can offer a unique perspective here.
- This documentary is about the history
- of gays and lesbians in Rochester
- and the people who helped make it happen.
- But as someone who came from some place else
- to this community, I'm interested
- in your first impressions of Rochester's gay community
- and what have you come to know about it, let's put it
- that way.
- PAUL ALLEN: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What have you come to appreciate about it?
- PAUL ALLEN: This is great.
- I came to Rochester in 2000 for a job at the U of R,
- and in 1999, as I was preparing to move,
- I was curious what I would find in Rochester.
- So I was doing internet searches,
- and it was pretty sparse what would come up,
- but already, at that time, there was
- a lot of information about a burgeoning
- gay life in Rochester.
- I remember clearly finding The Gay Alliance's homepage
- and thinking, wow, there's a lot going on here.
- And the Come Out and Play group, they had a web page.
- And I was like, wow, there's something here,
- that if I move here, then I'll find a community.
- It's one thing to see a web page,
- it's another thing to come here.
- And I quickly made friends with graduate students
- at the U of R, and some of them were gay and lesbians.
- And I quickly came to hang out in the gay and lesbian
- environment here, going to nightclubs,
- like GQ, and then going to my first Pride Picnic and Pride
- Parade with those friends.
- I wasn't identifying as a gay man at the time,
- so it was a safe space to explore that.
- And to be with really friendly people, really open.
- And I think that's the reason I stayed in Rochester,
- was this community spirit that's here that's really unique.
- I came from the other side of the world from Australia.
- Australia has this reputation for being
- progressive and liberal, because of Sydney,
- but most of the country really is the opposite.
- And one example of that is there's no marriage equality
- there.
- In fact, it's part of their law to have marriage bigotry.
- I was in a wedding party in 2008,
- and part of the law of Australia is
- that they have to say during the vows
- that marriage is between a man and a woman.
- And I think it's remarkable to look at that
- and contrast that with New York and Rochester
- and what we've achieved here.
- And I think a lot of people come from outside and arrive here,
- and it allows us to be really free here,
- and it's a really supportive community
- that's really special.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: This is going to catch you off guard,
- but what do you think the challenges ahead are
- for a community like Rochester?
- PAUL ALLEN: There are many challenges.
- So as a mid-sized city, a lot of our young people
- leave as soon as they finish college to go to a big city.
- And that drains a lot of the energy out of the place.
- On the flip side, it's a great place
- if you're in your thirties, forties, and fifties,
- to come back with an established career.
- But at the same time, I'm not sure how stable that is.
- I think, as a community, the basic economics
- are really going to dictate the future vibrancy.
- We've got a lot going for us.
- It's a really well-educated community, and in the future,
- that's going to make all the difference.
- There's these studies about the kinds
- of communities that succeed, and the ones that are conspicuously
- LGBT friendly, like Rochester is, they have the better
- economic track record.
- So I would see that--
- if that continues, that would be very, very hopeful.
- For the LGBT community in Rochester,
- I think we're going into an interesting time, where
- there's less reason to be distinct as LGBT.
- It's always going to be something that you feel,
- like who you fall in love with, is going to define you somehow
- if it's not part of the mainstream.
- But there's less of an issue of needing to band together.
- And we've already seen that with the bar scene,
- where back in the eighties, I'm told,
- there were dozens of bars, and it was a really very, very
- different scene from what we have now,
- where there's just a few.
- And most of my younger friends just
- go to regular, mainstream straight bars
- with their straight friends.
- And I think that's a long-term challenge for LGBT community
- organizations is that, what are we really doing.
- And are we attracting a new generation
- And what are they interested in?
- And how do we adapt to reflect that?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Interesting.
- Well, this is going to be a tough question to answer.
- PAUL ALLEN: Great.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm making you nervous.
- In terms of what you just said, will there
- come a time when there's no need for an ImageOut film festival?
- PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, it's possible.
- There may come a time where we don't need ImageOut anymore.
- I don't think it's in the next five to ten years, that's
- for sure.
- But in the longer run, what's the relevance of LGBT cinema?
- We've already seen this to some degree,
- that twenty years ago, any queer cinema
- was avant-garde and interesting just in its own right.
- And that's far from true anymore,
- that movies have to have something more to them
- to capture our attention, not just as film programmers,
- but as film viewers as well.
- We've seen these stories before.
- We need to see something new for it to be really riveting.
- And I think that's going to continue.
- To the extent that there are no more queer movies being made,
- then there will be no ImageOut as a film festival, that's
- pretty clear.
- But I think the stories that are coming out of our community
- are still distinct and different enough
- to warrant having this forum for the foreseeable future.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Same kind of question,
- slightly different angle.
- As a place or an event that brings our community together,
- and films aside, as more and more younger people
- are assimilating into just the mainstream society, going
- to the straight bars and wherever they go,
- how does that aspect of ImageOut change over
- the course of the next five, ten years or beyond?
- PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, I'm really curious
- what's going to happen to the ImageOut audience
- over the next decade, because our core audience now
- is in their thirties, forties, and fifties.
- And part of that is the demographic of Rochester,
- that a lot of the young people have left.
- There are fewer here than in those older age brackets.
- Part of it is the seniors group, a lot of them never came out,
- so they're kind of missing.
- And a lot of it is the youth maybe
- are not so engaged in cinema.
- And that was true historically as well,
- that a lot of arthouse cinema goers tended to be older.
- So it could be a natural thing.
- So one scenario is that as people settle down here,
- they become more bourgeois, and start going to film festivals.
- And sort of be a natural replenishment of people as they
- come into their late twenties and early thirties,
- and they'll join our community.
- On the other hand, we might have a real challenge
- with technology is one thing.
- There's many different ways to access queer cinema
- now, which they never were twenty years ago.
- You came to the festival or you never saw it.
- Now a lot of movies end up on DVD, on Netflix,
- on other online services.
- So it's not your only chance to see it.
- It is your only chance to see it with your community.
- So that's, I think, the special thing
- that we will have going for us.
- And so I think to the extent that the next generations
- of LGBT people value community, then
- I think cultural organizations like ImageOut
- will continue to have some relevance.
- But we've really got to be open to changing the forms that
- have been successful, and evolving them
- as people come on board with different ideas about how
- to enjoy LGBT culture.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: This might be a little premature to ask,
- but I'm asking everybody else the same question.
- Fortunately for you, I think you're actually
- the youngest person we've interviewed for this so
- far, for this doc.
- But years from now, how do you want history
- to reflect upon who you are and what you've done
- for the LGBT community here?
- And it doesn't have--
- PAUL ALLEN: Oh, me personally?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- PAUL ALLEN: Oh, wow.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: It doesn't even have
- to be centered all around ImageOut.
- But basically the question is, what are you most proud of?
- I hate to say this, but how do you
- want to be remembered as far as what you've
- contributed to this community?
- Like I said, you're probably the youngest person
- I've asked this.
- PAUL ALLEN: Wow, I hadn't thought of this.
- I'm not used to talking about myself.
- I'll come up with a good answer.
- I'm just kind of taking my time.
- So I'm very proud of the work that I've
- been able to do with ImageOut.
- And a lot of it is in collaboration with some really
- wonderful people.
- I think that's the real joy that I found with ImageOut is
- no one person does this alone.
- We do it together, as a group, and as a family.
- And that's really special.
- So for me personally, that's--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: They turned the switch off?
- (pause in recording)
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So let's just take it back a little bit.
- You were talking about that--
- PAUL ALLEN: I wasn't done with my answer, by the way.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And I'm trying to lead you back
- into it so you can finish it.
- Let's take it back where you talked about that this is--
- it was about working with a lot of great people,
- being able to make a new path or change, not
- as one person, but--
- PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, now I'm stalling again.
- Oh, now I'm having a brain freeze.
- So we were talking about what I think--
- what I want to be remembered by, or what do I think my legacy
- is going to be with this project.
- I'm really proud of the Shoulders
- to Stand On project, because I've
- learned a lot about the history of Rochester,
- and I really do feel like I'm standing on so many people's
- shoulders with this.
- Working with ImageOut is some of those shoulders,
- and before us, The Gay Alliance helped to incubate ImageOut.
- The Gay Alliance has been around for forty years.
- That didn't come out of nowhere.
- There's been something really vibrant here.
- So I feel like I'm joining this tradition
- by working with ImageOut and leading ImageOut.
- I'm becoming part of this community,
- and that's really important for me as someone who's moved here.
- That this is part of what makes me feel home here,
- is that I'm able to give back to a tradition of activism,
- and of acceptance, and offer that to a new generation.
- And hopefully I'll have many more years to do that
- with ImageOut and with other groups that
- have yet to be formed.
- And I think I'm really excited about that,
- and I want to do that here in Rochester.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: (unintelligible).
- We used to do the interviews in the front room,
- but every fifteen minutes we'd get the church gongs.
- PAUL ALLEN: Oh, nice.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: We moved back there, but--
- PAUL ALLEN: It's a nice time code.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: We're definitely on time.
- As you were talking one question just come to mind.
- If you were to have a message for the up and coming
- generation, the younger people, in regards to community,
- and the challenges ahead for them, what would you tell them?
- PAUL ALLEN: If I was going to send
- a message to this incoming LGBT generation
- it would be to think about what community you want for you.
- You have a community around you.
- It's your friends, your family, and there's
- a possible larger community as well that you could be part of.
- And it's up to you, and a lot of this is up to you.
- Just because it's being created by a previous generation,
- you're under no obligation to pick it up.
- But there's a lot of great things here,
- and you could grow a lot from immersing in it,
- and creating the kind of community that you want to see.
- And I think that's been the history of this place,
- is that it has evolved and changed in response to people
- evolving and changing it.
- It doesn't just happen on its own.
- It happens from people coming out and doing this work.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: It's a wrap.
- PAUL ALLEN: All right.
- Cool.