Video Interview, Paul Allen, November 1, 2012

  • PAUL ALLEN: This is perfect.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Just for the record on tape,
  • give us the correct spelling of your first and last name
  • as you would like it to appear.
  • PAUL ALLEN: My name is Paul Allen, P-A-U-L. A-L-L-E-N.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So Paul, let's just start off just very
  • generally about ImageOut.
  • It just celebrated twenty years.
  • Just talk to me about, from your own point of view,
  • as much as you know, about the significance
  • of having this event.
  • It started out as just a little grassroots idea
  • into this full-fledged, largest film festival
  • outside of New York City event.
  • PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, I think it's very significant that we
  • have twenty years of ImageOut.
  • It's-- start that again.
  • This is actually one of the hardest questions, I think,
  • because it's so big.
  • So the significance of ImageOut, celebrating twenty years.
  • It started as a community based organization
  • in the flowering of queer culture
  • in the 1990s, that was part of that existential struggle
  • with the AIDS epidemic, and all the political
  • struggles before that.
  • And it really manifests as a cultural sensibility
  • in the mid-nineties.
  • And part of that, there were a group of local activists
  • and artist activists and they came together,
  • that Rochester should have this gay and lesbian film
  • festival to take advantage of all the great gay and lesbian
  • movies that were coming out then.
  • And I think that spirit of grassroots
  • carries on to this day.
  • That the people who produce ImageOut out
  • now are regular people who have an interest
  • in bringing great LGBT cinema to Rochester for this audience.
  • And I think that's its strength, is
  • that it's a community organization, different from
  • and a lot of other festivals, where
  • they have a professional staff.
  • We don't have professional staff,
  • and we manage to get by using volunteer labor, which
  • has its own troubles, but it makes
  • us really resilient through the recent economic downturn.
  • Things have been better for us than for most,
  • and allowing us to have this really strong twentieth
  • anniversary just now.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: And I'm going to segregate myself away
  • from ImageOut like I know nothing about it here.
  • But talk to me about ImageOut as more than just a film festival.
  • PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, ImageOut's more than just the film
  • festival.
  • It's really a community and it's a community
  • on many different levels.
  • There's the community of people producing it,
  • the ImageOut family.
  • There's the community of supporters
  • who feel connected to something big,
  • and dynamic, and interesting in this community that they
  • help out with.
  • And then the audience that comes to the cinema,
  • and sees us, and sees all the movies there.
  • They get a sense of being part of this really
  • great, strong, vibrant LGBT community
  • that exists in Rochester.
  • I think ImageOut has been a really good platform
  • for highlighting that, and showing people
  • that that exists here, and you can be part of it.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to explore that
  • just a little bit more.
  • ImageOut-- I liked your word that you used, platform,
  • because how does ImageOut help the LGBT cause
  • within our community, the activism, the awareness,
  • the politics?
  • PAUL ALLEN: Yeah.
  • I think ImageOut really helps the LGBT community in Rochester
  • by being a flagship cultural event.
  • So distinct from Pride, which is this big celebration,
  • very rowdy.
  • The kind of visuals for ImageOut are much more normal,
  • mainstream.
  • So people can kind of see LGBT culture
  • is something non-threatening, if you like,
  • and as something equally valuable to the community
  • to the other festivals that we have here.
  • So it's, in a sense, an air of respectability to LGBT.
  • But beyond that, visibility generally.
  • In my time here, I've seen a shift in the last ten years
  • where initially people were reluctant to be
  • out and visible.
  • But now, I think, that's really a nonissue for a lot of people,
  • and part of it is having community organizations that
  • are respected and it's not something to be ashamed of.
  • You can really be out and be a respected
  • member of this community.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, and I want to follow-up
  • on that, over the course of ten years or so.
  • ImageOut has really found its place at the cultural table
  • here in Rochester.
  • How significant is that?
  • PAUL ALLEN: I want to answer a different question on that.
  • So I'm just kind of formulating it, and then I'll start it.
  • So the significance of--
  • no.
  • ImageOut is on a journey, and it's a journey finding itself
  • as a cultural institution.
  • And we definitely have this grassroots character,
  • and that's taken us a long way.
  • And it's taken us to this point now where
  • we are on a par with a lot of other cultural organizations
  • in the community, and we engage with them,
  • we collaborate with them, co-producing events,
  • co-marketing.
  • And so we've really arrived on the cultural scene
  • as something that's really integral to the community.
  • And particularly for the film community,
  • it's the big festival now, and working
  • with the different venues, such as the Little
  • Theater, and WXXI, and the George Eastman House,
  • and the Dryden Theater.
  • We're recognized by them as a really vital partner
  • for their film mission.
  • So I think there's a lot of great collaborative
  • opportunities, and those are definitely
  • growing in the future.
  • So I see for ImageOut, it's really a process,
  • and we've arrived but we're not done yet.
  • We're still going.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: The very essence of this journey that we're on,
  • and partnering with some of the bigger, of more well-known,
  • established organizations in our community, in a sense,
  • it's using ImageOut as a way of making,
  • obviously, gays and lesbians more visible in the community.
  • But it's also sending a clear message
  • to these more established organizations
  • that we have something to contribute.
  • Any thoughts on that?
  • PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, I think ImageOut can contribute
  • a lot to the life of this community
  • beyond just our LGBT audience.
  • That especially partnering with other organizations,
  • we enrich their content as well by--
  • there's many different levels.
  • So they have outreach to a new audience, the LGBT audience,
  • and they bring new and interesting stories, and art,
  • and culture to their existing audience,
  • and make themselves relevant to what's going on in our country
  • at this time.
  • So I think ImageOut is a really great conduit
  • for a lot of these things that are happening in culture,
  • and we can facilitate that in Rochester,
  • and as part of the cultural landscape here,
  • really bring that here.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So let's shift gears just a little bit
  • and jump--
  • I think one-- and again, I'll try and segregate myself
  • from being actively involved with your organization--
  • but one of the successes to me for ImageOut
  • is that it has always been, and it prides itself
  • in being accessible to everyone.
  • That diversity is a key component of what ImageOut is
  • and what it provides for this community.
  • Can you talk to me about, particularly
  • the outreach efforts, and making sure
  • that anyone in this community who wants to participate
  • has an opportunity to do so.
  • PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, diversity is a really important issue
  • for ImageOut, particularly LGBT being traditionally
  • a marginalized community, that we're
  • very sensitive to that issue.
  • So part of our values includes creating safe space
  • for people of all descriptions to come and enjoy
  • what we have to offer.
  • And we have a very active outreach program
  • that, historically, has been built up by volunteers bringing
  • their particular interests.
  • So we've had lots of youth outreach.
  • We've had our outreach to the deaf and hard
  • of hearing communities.
  • So we bring ASL interpreting to a lot of screenings.
  • And new things include outreach to seniors
  • via ticket discounts, and accessibility is always
  • an important issue, such as, making sure
  • that people with mobility issues are
  • able to access the facilities that we choose to use,
  • and that kind of thing.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm going to jump around here a little bit.
  • Talking about the importance of ImageOut
  • being a community builder for the LGBT community,
  • and the importance of be able to see ourselves up
  • on that screen.
  • PAUL ALLEN: Yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: And how does that help us, again,
  • I want to say the LGBT cause, but I'm trying
  • to think of a better word.
  • PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, so for the LGBT community in Rochester,
  • ImageOut has a special niche that's
  • complemented by organizations like the GAGV,
  • and Pride, Out & Equal, and other organizations
  • that do health and human services
  • and professional networking.
  • What ImageOut is doing, its mission
  • is really around culture, and supporting LGBT identity
  • in this community.
  • So how people are able to feel about themselves
  • by having their stories represented on screen.
  • So contrast that with twenty years ago,
  • when most cinema that you could see
  • didn't feature positive representations of gay
  • and lesbians, and transgender people
  • were basically invisible.
  • And what we've been trying to do with ImageOut out
  • is to create representations that
  • mirror the aspects of our lives as LGBT people,
  • and to bring that to Rochester, to give people here something
  • to relate to, to think about, to talk about,
  • to share with their community as a support.
  • And some things are definitely-- you don't relate to them.
  • Not everyone is a bear.
  • Not everyone is trans.
  • Not everyone is a circuit boy.
  • So there's the stories that are outside of our experience,
  • yet they resonate somehow, that you can see these movies
  • and relate to someone who is an outsider,
  • but they can get acceptance somehow.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: This is going to be a two-sided question.
  • I'll focus on the first half.
  • Again, you're not from here, but you've
  • come to know the Rochester community very well.
  • What does it say about this Rochester community as a whole,
  • and the size city that we are, we're not a big city, to be
  • able to support, for twenty years, a gay and lesbian film
  • festival?
  • PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, I think Rochester
  • is a very special community, because it's not a large city,
  • and yet it has a really vibrant gay and lesbian,
  • transgender community here.
  • And that's remarkable, and it has a long history,
  • and it makes it kind of unique, and it
  • makes it very fertile for an organization like ImageOut
  • to really flourish here.
  • Because there is a strong community, a strong activist
  • community, a strong socially minded community,
  • that's willing to support its community organizations
  • so that they can bring unique programming to this community.
  • And so it's a virtuous cycle of community organizations
  • building community that then helps to support
  • those community organizations.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: And then the flip side of this question
  • is, how has ImageOut helped put Rochester on the map?
  • And I'm thinking more in terms of the international map
  • really.
  • For a small city like Rochester to be so well respected in
  • regards to film festivals.
  • ImageOut has a big part--
  • PAUL ALLEN: I'm the wrong person to ask about this,
  • but we'll go ahead.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I already asked Michael.
  • He answered it.
  • PAUL ALLEN: Yeah.
  • So, (pause)
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Let me ask it a slightly different way.
  • PAUL ALLEN: Yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Maybe it's not so much about putting us
  • on the map.
  • But from what you know now, how does ImageOut stack up
  • to a lot of the gay and lesbian film festivals
  • across the country?
  • PAUL ALLEN: Great.
  • That's the question I really can answer.
  • I'm really proud of ImageOut.
  • So I've had the opportunity to go to other cities
  • and attend their film festivals, and a lot of the films
  • are the same, but the community is far from the same.
  • And that's something really unique in Rochester.
  • The sense that you go into these screenings,
  • and because of the size of our community,
  • you can see a lot of people that you recognize, and friends,
  • and it's a great way to go out.
  • And it's the big event.
  • So for instance, going to the Toronto Film Festival,
  • it's a fantastic festival, really, really great movies,
  • but it doesn't have that same sense of community
  • that we have.
  • Because they're such a big city, they
  • have so many other things going on.
  • Inside Out, their festival, is just one of the things.
  • ImageOut is the big thing in Rochester when it happens,
  • and the LGBT community comes out and supports it,
  • and sees their friends out there,
  • makes new friends, new conversations,
  • and that's the real wonderful thing about ImageOut
  • in Rochester.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: We just have one more question here.
  • ImageOut is not just for gays and lesbians.
  • And it's something we've been trying
  • to work on for many years now, trying
  • to make this a community festival, not just
  • a gay and lesbian festival.
  • Talk to me about some of the work
  • that you've been trying to do to open up those doors.
  • And have we succeeded?
  • PAUL ALLEN: Yeah.
  • The focus of ImageOut really remains
  • in providing a community for LGBT people,
  • but it has a purpose beyond that.
  • And I think it's reflecting what's
  • happening in this country, as LGBT people gain more
  • acceptance from the broader society, that it's not
  • seen as so distinct anymore, and that's mirrored in ImageOut.
  • With a lot of our audience is actually
  • straight people who are curious, interested,
  • would like to see what's going on.
  • They have friends that have invited
  • them to come check it out.
  • Because the movies are really great,
  • and have stories that are not--
  • they're not just for LGBT people.
  • They're really for a broad audience.
  • And I see that really evolving.
  • twenty years after the new queer cinema,
  • there's a new new queer cinema, that's
  • less about explicit gay and lesbian, trans stories,
  • and more about the human condition.
  • And those are the typical arthouse movies
  • that any cinema lover would find something in and really
  • appreciate.
  • And so I see that, the next five and ten years, that's, I
  • believe, where our community is heading,
  • and where the film festival will be heading,
  • because those will be the movies that are being made.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm going to just look at my notes here.
  • So let's just step away from ImageOut for a moment
  • here, because you can offer a unique perspective here.
  • This documentary is about the history
  • of gays and lesbians in Rochester
  • and the people who helped make it happen.
  • But as someone who came from some place else
  • to this community, I'm interested
  • in your first impressions of Rochester's gay community
  • and what have you come to know about it, let's put it
  • that way.
  • PAUL ALLEN: Yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: What have you come to appreciate about it?
  • PAUL ALLEN: This is great.
  • I came to Rochester in 2000 for a job at the U of R,
  • and in 1999, as I was preparing to move,
  • I was curious what I would find in Rochester.
  • So I was doing internet searches,
  • and it was pretty sparse what would come up,
  • but already, at that time, there was
  • a lot of information about a burgeoning
  • gay life in Rochester.
  • I remember clearly finding The Gay Alliance's homepage
  • and thinking, wow, there's a lot going on here.
  • And the Come Out and Play group, they had a web page.
  • And I was like, wow, there's something here,
  • that if I move here, then I'll find a community.
  • It's one thing to see a web page,
  • it's another thing to come here.
  • And I quickly made friends with graduate students
  • at the U of R, and some of them were gay and lesbians.
  • And I quickly came to hang out in the gay and lesbian
  • environment here, going to nightclubs,
  • like GQ, and then going to my first Pride Picnic and Pride
  • Parade with those friends.
  • I wasn't identifying as a gay man at the time,
  • so it was a safe space to explore that.
  • And to be with really friendly people, really open.
  • And I think that's the reason I stayed in Rochester,
  • was this community spirit that's here that's really unique.
  • I came from the other side of the world from Australia.
  • Australia has this reputation for being
  • progressive and liberal, because of Sydney,
  • but most of the country really is the opposite.
  • And one example of that is there's no marriage equality
  • there.
  • In fact, it's part of their law to have marriage bigotry.
  • I was in a wedding party in 2008,
  • and part of the law of Australia is
  • that they have to say during the vows
  • that marriage is between a man and a woman.
  • And I think it's remarkable to look at that
  • and contrast that with New York and Rochester
  • and what we've achieved here.
  • And I think a lot of people come from outside and arrive here,
  • and it allows us to be really free here,
  • and it's a really supportive community
  • that's really special.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: This is going to catch you off guard,
  • but what do you think the challenges ahead are
  • for a community like Rochester?
  • PAUL ALLEN: There are many challenges.
  • So as a mid-sized city, a lot of our young people
  • leave as soon as they finish college to go to a big city.
  • And that drains a lot of the energy out of the place.
  • On the flip side, it's a great place
  • if you're in your thirties, forties, and fifties,
  • to come back with an established career.
  • But at the same time, I'm not sure how stable that is.
  • I think, as a community, the basic economics
  • are really going to dictate the future vibrancy.
  • We've got a lot going for us.
  • It's a really well-educated community, and in the future,
  • that's going to make all the difference.
  • There's these studies about the kinds
  • of communities that succeed, and the ones that are conspicuously
  • LGBT friendly, like Rochester is, they have the better
  • economic track record.
  • So I would see that--
  • if that continues, that would be very, very hopeful.
  • For the LGBT community in Rochester,
  • I think we're going into an interesting time, where
  • there's less reason to be distinct as LGBT.
  • It's always going to be something that you feel,
  • like who you fall in love with, is going to define you somehow
  • if it's not part of the mainstream.
  • But there's less of an issue of needing to band together.
  • And we've already seen that with the bar scene,
  • where back in the eighties, I'm told,
  • there were dozens of bars, and it was a really very, very
  • different scene from what we have now,
  • where there's just a few.
  • And most of my younger friends just
  • go to regular, mainstream straight bars
  • with their straight friends.
  • And I think that's a long-term challenge for LGBT community
  • organizations is that, what are we really doing.
  • And are we attracting a new generation
  • And what are they interested in?
  • And how do we adapt to reflect that?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Interesting.
  • Well, this is going to be a tough question to answer.
  • PAUL ALLEN: Great.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm making you nervous.
  • In terms of what you just said, will there
  • come a time when there's no need for an ImageOut film festival?
  • PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, it's possible.
  • There may come a time where we don't need ImageOut anymore.
  • I don't think it's in the next five to ten years, that's
  • for sure.
  • But in the longer run, what's the relevance of LGBT cinema?
  • We've already seen this to some degree,
  • that twenty years ago, any queer cinema
  • was avant-garde and interesting just in its own right.
  • And that's far from true anymore,
  • that movies have to have something more to them
  • to capture our attention, not just as film programmers,
  • but as film viewers as well.
  • We've seen these stories before.
  • We need to see something new for it to be really riveting.
  • And I think that's going to continue.
  • To the extent that there are no more queer movies being made,
  • then there will be no ImageOut as a film festival, that's
  • pretty clear.
  • But I think the stories that are coming out of our community
  • are still distinct and different enough
  • to warrant having this forum for the foreseeable future.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Same kind of question,
  • slightly different angle.
  • As a place or an event that brings our community together,
  • and films aside, as more and more younger people
  • are assimilating into just the mainstream society, going
  • to the straight bars and wherever they go,
  • how does that aspect of ImageOut change over
  • the course of the next five, ten years or beyond?
  • PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, I'm really curious
  • what's going to happen to the ImageOut audience
  • over the next decade, because our core audience now
  • is in their thirties, forties, and fifties.
  • And part of that is the demographic of Rochester,
  • that a lot of the young people have left.
  • There are fewer here than in those older age brackets.
  • Part of it is the seniors group, a lot of them never came out,
  • so they're kind of missing.
  • And a lot of it is the youth maybe
  • are not so engaged in cinema.
  • And that was true historically as well,
  • that a lot of arthouse cinema goers tended to be older.
  • So it could be a natural thing.
  • So one scenario is that as people settle down here,
  • they become more bourgeois, and start going to film festivals.
  • And sort of be a natural replenishment of people as they
  • come into their late twenties and early thirties,
  • and they'll join our community.
  • On the other hand, we might have a real challenge
  • with technology is one thing.
  • There's many different ways to access queer cinema
  • now, which they never were twenty years ago.
  • You came to the festival or you never saw it.
  • Now a lot of movies end up on DVD, on Netflix,
  • on other online services.
  • So it's not your only chance to see it.
  • It is your only chance to see it with your community.
  • So that's, I think, the special thing
  • that we will have going for us.
  • And so I think to the extent that the next generations
  • of LGBT people value community, then
  • I think cultural organizations like ImageOut
  • will continue to have some relevance.
  • But we've really got to be open to changing the forms that
  • have been successful, and evolving them
  • as people come on board with different ideas about how
  • to enjoy LGBT culture.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: This might be a little premature to ask,
  • but I'm asking everybody else the same question.
  • Fortunately for you, I think you're actually
  • the youngest person we've interviewed for this so
  • far, for this doc.
  • But years from now, how do you want history
  • to reflect upon who you are and what you've done
  • for the LGBT community here?
  • And it doesn't have--
  • PAUL ALLEN: Oh, me personally?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
  • PAUL ALLEN: Oh, wow.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: It doesn't even have
  • to be centered all around ImageOut.
  • But basically the question is, what are you most proud of?
  • I hate to say this, but how do you
  • want to be remembered as far as what you've
  • contributed to this community?
  • Like I said, you're probably the youngest person
  • I've asked this.
  • PAUL ALLEN: Wow, I hadn't thought of this.
  • I'm not used to talking about myself.
  • I'll come up with a good answer.
  • I'm just kind of taking my time.
  • So I'm very proud of the work that I've
  • been able to do with ImageOut.
  • And a lot of it is in collaboration with some really
  • wonderful people.
  • I think that's the real joy that I found with ImageOut is
  • no one person does this alone.
  • We do it together, as a group, and as a family.
  • And that's really special.
  • So for me personally, that's--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: They turned the switch off?
  • (pause in recording)
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So let's just take it back a little bit.
  • You were talking about that--
  • PAUL ALLEN: I wasn't done with my answer, by the way.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: And I'm trying to lead you back
  • into it so you can finish it.
  • Let's take it back where you talked about that this is--
  • it was about working with a lot of great people,
  • being able to make a new path or change, not
  • as one person, but--
  • PAUL ALLEN: Yeah, now I'm stalling again.
  • Oh, now I'm having a brain freeze.
  • So we were talking about what I think--
  • what I want to be remembered by, or what do I think my legacy
  • is going to be with this project.
  • I'm really proud of the Shoulders
  • to Stand On project, because I've
  • learned a lot about the history of Rochester,
  • and I really do feel like I'm standing on so many people's
  • shoulders with this.
  • Working with ImageOut is some of those shoulders,
  • and before us, The Gay Alliance helped to incubate ImageOut.
  • The Gay Alliance has been around for forty years.
  • That didn't come out of nowhere.
  • There's been something really vibrant here.
  • So I feel like I'm joining this tradition
  • by working with ImageOut and leading ImageOut.
  • I'm becoming part of this community,
  • and that's really important for me as someone who's moved here.
  • That this is part of what makes me feel home here,
  • is that I'm able to give back to a tradition of activism,
  • and of acceptance, and offer that to a new generation.
  • And hopefully I'll have many more years to do that
  • with ImageOut and with other groups that
  • have yet to be formed.
  • And I think I'm really excited about that,
  • and I want to do that here in Rochester.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: (unintelligible).
  • We used to do the interviews in the front room,
  • but every fifteen minutes we'd get the church gongs.
  • PAUL ALLEN: Oh, nice.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: We moved back there, but--
  • PAUL ALLEN: It's a nice time code.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: We're definitely on time.
  • As you were talking one question just come to mind.
  • If you were to have a message for the up and coming
  • generation, the younger people, in regards to community,
  • and the challenges ahead for them, what would you tell them?
  • PAUL ALLEN: If I was going to send
  • a message to this incoming LGBT generation
  • it would be to think about what community you want for you.
  • You have a community around you.
  • It's your friends, your family, and there's
  • a possible larger community as well that you could be part of.
  • And it's up to you, and a lot of this is up to you.
  • Just because it's being created by a previous generation,
  • you're under no obligation to pick it up.
  • But there's a lot of great things here,
  • and you could grow a lot from immersing in it,
  • and creating the kind of community that you want to see.
  • And I think that's been the history of this place,
  • is that it has evolved and changed in response to people
  • evolving and changing it.
  • It doesn't just happen on its own.
  • It happens from people coming out and doing this work.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: It's a wrap.
  • PAUL ALLEN: All right.
  • Cool.