Video Interview, Gin Shear and Sue Slate, February 22, 2013

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.

So just first give me the first--

correct spelling of your first and last name of how you

want it to appear on screen.

SUE SLATE: Sue, S-U-E. Slate, S-L-A-T-E.

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, and the same with you, Ginny.

GIN SHEAR: It's Gin Shear.

G-I-N. S-H-E-A-R.

KEVIN INDOVINO: All set?

CREW: All set.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Alright.

So let's start with the first one

here, with the Lesbian Resource Center.

Just talk to me about the Lesbian Resource Center.

What was it and what was it like being there?

SUE SLATE: I think the Lesbian Resource Center was just

that for me.

At the time I was separated from our son's father.

And we were trying to find our way in our separate lives

and still parent our son, Travis.

But the-- so I went to the Gay Alliance.

I looked it up in the telephone book.

We didn't have all the resources with computers and all.

And came in and just found my way.

Found that I wasn't alone.

That I wasn't the only one that, oops,

came out after bearing a child.

And so it really--

it gave me courage to face all the decisions

that I had to make.

And it put me in contact with a community

of wonderful women and men.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Touch on something,

how did you even know to look for something like the Gay

Alliance?

SUE SLATE: Well, I knew about the Alliance

through some friends that I had come out to who

were on our softball team.

You know, the traditional way of meeting folks

was play softball back in the day.

And they let me know that-- of the existence.

And I was scared and needed that help.

And thank god they were there for me.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm just going to stay

with Sue just for a moment.

So, yeah, thank god that they were there.

What does it say about a community like Rochester

that we had that kind of resource for people.

SUE SLATE: I'm really glad I lived in the Rochester region,

because there were a lot of resources.

I've always felt it's a fairly forward thinking city.

Had I been in the southern tier, or had I

been out in the middle of nowhere,

I'm not sure what I would have done.

It would have been-- you know, I wouldn't

have done anything radical.

But I might have stayed with a situation that

wasn't true to myself because I didn't

know my way through the maze.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Move this way over.

GIN SHEAR: I was thinking that, too.

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, Gin.

Let's go over to you here, then.

Again, same kind of question.

You know, the Lesbian Resource Center what was it like,

and what did it do for you?

GIN SHEAR: Well, in '72 after I graduated from college,

I came back to Rochester.

And I did not know the gay community here.

And I had been out forever, but I was living in Virginia

going to college.

So when I came home, I saw something

in the paper about the--

I don't know if it was an organization at the University

of Rochester that--

and I got in touch with them.

I found out where they were meeting, and went to a meeting

at the U of R and met a few people.

And after that, the Lesbian Resource Center formed,

and I went there.

And it was exactly that, a resource center.

And when I went there, there were other women who were gay.

And it gave me the opportunity to meet other people,

because I didn't know anyone in the community.

And also found where there was some social life going on,

where to go, meaning the bars.

So that-- and they wouldn't give those names out over the phone.

So they said, "Well, come in to a meeting of the Lesbian

Resource Center, and we'll give you all that information."

So I did that.

So it was a gateway into finding other lesbians

in the community.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm going to back up a little bit.

When you first walked into the meeting on the U of R campus,

talk to me about that experience.

Talk to me about walking into that meeting,

and what you were feeling emotionally?

What were you searching for?

GIN SHEAR: Well, when I came back from college

I had already found a gay community there.

But coming to Rochester, I was clueless.

And I went to that first GLF--

was it Gay Liberation Front?

I went to their first meeting, and it was like oh, wow.

Here we are.

It was finding the people that I could relate to,

and finding a community where I could meet other people that I

could develop some friendships.

And it was kind of nice.

And I met some very interesting women there.

And it was exciting to be in the forefront of that.

Not that I was that involved with it.

But to meet all those people and develop some friendships,

and find kind of a community to be in.

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, so then let's jump back

to the Lesbian Resource Center.

Just kind of describe for me what it was like being there.

You know, I mean, what were the conversations like?

What was the camaraderie like?

Again, what did it fulfill for you emotionally or socially?

GIN SHEAR: Well, going to the Lesbian Resource Center was--

that was down on Monroe Avenue in the old co-op.

And you went upstairs, and it was just very homey.

I mean, they had a lot of old stuffed furniture

and desks and whatnot.

But it was comfortable, and it was a very welcoming place.

And you could relate to everyone there.

It was a real good mixing of people

from all parts of the community.

It just kind of felt homey, very much like home.

And it was-- being isolated was lonely, for one thing.

I mean, I was with my family.

But it was lonely not having any friends to relate to.

And that opened that door for me into the lesbian community

in Rochester.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Other people I talk to-- and I want to maybe

get a sense of this-- is that going to the Lesbian Resource

Center I think you had to go, like,

a back alley way and up a back stairs--

GIN SHEAR: Yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: --or so.

Talk to me about that.

Talk to me about, you know, having clandestine kind of gay

there.

GIN SHEAR: Yeah, getting into the co-op, at that time

the Gay Alliance was up on the second floor.

And I wasn't that familiar with downtown Rochester,

because I grew up in Greece.

So you came down and you parked somewhere around the corner.

And had to go down the back side of the building,

and up the back stairs.

And it was like, where am I and what am I getting into here?

And it was unfamiliar at first.

I mean, all I needed was the one trip down there,

and then I knew where I was going.

And I was like, OK.

It was-- it was almost an adventure, a little expedition

to get down there.

But, you know, once I knew my way around and could find it,

then it was like going home.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So same kind of question I

asked Sue about the significant of having resources

like that in Rochester.

How important was that?

GIN SHEAR: Well, for me at the resource center was just that--

as I said--

a resource where I could find where women

were meeting in the community.

Where I could find other groups of lesbians.

Where we socialized.

And-- other than the softball field.

So it was good.

And we met other people.

And every now and then I'd run into someone that I knew

from high school who was out.

And that was nice to find other friends.

And it was a interesting mix of people

that hung out in the different bars around the community.

And they all had a different flavor at that time.

But I met a lot of people that I might not have met before.

And it was like our place, our community.

And that's where I was.

That's where I found people, and found friends.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm going to go offtrack here just

for a second.

Talk to me about softball.

Everyone I talk to talks about softball.

But the more I start hearing about it,

the more I'm coming to realize that it, too,

was a place for lesbians to meet each other

and socialize with each other.

GIN SHEAR: It was.

Speaking of softball, the one-- when I first

came home from college, that summer

I started going just to find where the softball games were.

And I knew there were bunch of ball fields

at Kodak on Wayland Road.

So I went up there and ran into a friend of mine

from high school, and chatted for a while.

And, you know, I could tell there were some women there

that were interesting.

How's that?

How's that?

SUE SLATE: A euphemism.

GIN SHEAR: Yeah, euphemisms.

I never played softball actually until I came back to Rochester

and started meeting people.

A woman I was seeing at the time wanted to play softball.

And somebody at the Riverview wanted to start a ball team.

So OK fine, I'll play.

And it just evolved from there and softball was--

it was a mix of people.

It wasn't all gay women.

It was a lot of straight women who liked to play softball.

But it was also a lot of gay women

who liked to play softball.

So that was fun.

And that's where Sue and I met.

KEVIN INDOVINO: That was going to be my next question.

talk to me about how you guys met.

SUE SLATE: Well, I played softball out

in Leroy, New York.

And that's where I met a couple of women.

And immediately-- I had already come out to myself.

I had stepped away from the marriage,

but I hadn't really met anyone yet.

So when I start playing softball and met these two women,

at least I had a healthy relationship with them.

And I could be honest with them, and I could come to know myself

a little bit.

And they're the ones that turned me

on to the resources that were available in Rochester.

I mean, they were in Rochester every weekend.

They knew the scene.

And being a mom at the time, it was a nice easy way.

I had no idea that first time I went up to the Lesbian Resource

Center, you know, was I going to be

accepted coming from a straight relationship with a son?

And, you know, how is that all going to play out?

So when you talk about the walking up

those back steps into--

I can remember the-- it was like one step at a time.

Am I doing the right thing?

How am I going to be received?

I had a lot of anxiety, I guess.

But they assured me, and they helped me take that step.

That I should go, and everything would be fine.

So-- but softball was just a wonderful way to interact,

and meet a lot of women around the whole county.

And if you got to the playoffs, then

you really got to meet a whole lot of other women.

It was wonderful.

GIN SHEAR: And we did for quite a while.

SUE SLATE: Yeah.

GIN SHEAR: We made the playoffs.

SUE SLATE: Yeah.

GIN SHEAR: We were on the all-star team

in Genesee County.

SUE SLATE: Right.

And that's-- it was interesting when we played softball,

because we--

there was this rumor going around

that we had gone off to some country where

it was legal to get married.

And this is of course before it was on the radar of any country

anywhere.

We thought that was a pretty interesting rumor.

GIN SHEAR: We laughed at it.

SUE SLATE: You know.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

I just need a little short byte--

sound byte from one of you, again, just to kind of set that

up of the softball community as being one of those places where

women could be.

GIN SHEAR: Well, back then if you

didn't know where the bars were, or you didn't

want to go to bars, one way you could meet women

was to get involved in some sports activity.

In the summer it was softball.

And it was huge in Rochester.

I mean, the slow pitch softball league was everywhere.

I mean, it was all over the country.

There were a lot of women playing softball here.

And in the winter, there were a lot

of women playing volleyball.

So getting into sports was one way of meeting a lot of women,

and finding other lesbians.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Thanks.

OK, so let's move forward a little bit.

You guys eventually became peer counselors for the GAGV.

Talk to me about that experience.

Gin, maybe you want to start.

talk to me, one, why you made the decision

to be a peer counselor.

And then-- let's just start with that.

GIN SHEAR: OK, we had been together for a few years.

And one morning Sue woke up.

And she leaned on her elbow and said, "You know,

I really need to give back."

And by that she meant we have to be more giving

to our community.

So she had seen an ad in the Empty Closet

for peer counselors.

And there was a class that was going

to be held to train peer counselors for the GAGV.

So she said, "Would you be willing to do that?"

I said, "Sure.

Yeah, let's do it."

So we came in, and there was a class.

And it-- how long did that go?

SUE SLATE: It was an intense weekend.

GIN SHEAR: A very intense weekend.

Which was very enlightening for everyone in it.

For me it was great.

And it was nice to come in-- we did it maybe once

a week for quite a while.

We'd come in and answer the phone at the GAGV,

and talk to people who had questions or problems

or just needed someone to talk to.

And it was a real learning experience, for me anyway.

It was-- it opened me up to other people.

And I think it definitely made me a better person.

KEVIN INDOVINO: You want to add something?

SUE SLATE: Yeah, once I learned of the Gay Alliance,

my first step was to actually make a phone call

and talk to a peer counselor and find out

when the LRC meetings are going to take place.

And the gentleman on the other end of the phone

was extraordinary.

He was such an active listener, and he

made me feel confident in taking the next step.

I thought, wow.

You know, if we could do that for someone that

would be great.

That training program was incredible.

It started on a Thursday and it ran until Sunday

late afternoon.

And the people skills that we garnered,

the ability to actively listen to other people, those skills

we use--

we used in our parenting.

We've used in our social interactions.

In really everything we've done since.

It was an extraordinary moment that

has had a major impact on our lives all the way through.

I can't say enough about it.

GIN SHEAR: It was definitely a catalyst--

SUE SLATE: Yeah.

GIN SHEAR: --for everything else that we've done since then.

So it was just a real big beginning for us, I think.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Brian give me a single of Sue.

I'm just taking a moment here to get

what's called reaction shots.

So I'm going to have you--

I'm going to ask you the same kind of question.

Talk to me about becoming a peer counselor.

But, Sue, I just need you to just kind of sit there and look

at Gin and just kind of listen to what she's saying.

GIN SHEAR: Adoringly.

KEVIN INDOVINO: It's just what I'm getting-- just like you

were when she was talking.

SUE SLATE: Yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.

So, Gin, just very briefly again just

talk to me about that decision of becoming a peer counselor.

GIN SHEAR: The decision to become

a peer counselor was a little scary for me, because I

used to be a very shy person.

I'm not a real people person, but--

so it was different for me.

Sue was already an out there kind of person.

But I was a little more reserved.

And it opened me up quite a bit.

And it was a good thing for me.

It just made it so I could talk to anybody.

And it was very helpful in that.

And I've said, Sue is a very out there kind of person.

And I'm a very retiring one.

And we kind of met in the middle.

So it's enlarged my life quite a bit.

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, and then we're

just going to switch it up.

Same kind of thing.

Just sit here and listen to what Sue is saying to me.

And, Sue, let's just get back to the one question

about when you were first coming out, talking to the peer

counselor and how that helped you.

SUE SLATE: I was so glad I called the GAGV.

And I really didn't know what was

going to happen at the other end of the phone.

But a peer counselor came on the phone.

And he had a way of actively listening, giving me

just the right amount of feedback to get me

to talk about something else.

And then he gave me the confidence

to come to the first Lesbian Resource Center meeting.

And that, alone, was, you know, kind of I

want to grow up and be able to do that with someone.

And so a couple of years later when the opportunity

it came about to become peer counselors, I just jumped.

I wanted to jump on it.

But I wanted to do it with Gin.

I thought we complement each other.

Some people say that I'm the kite, and she's the string.

And it's worked for us.

So we took that training.

And that training was extraordinary.

Starting on a Thursday, running until Sunday.

It was intense.

I learned so much about myself, but I also

learned how to give back.

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, hold that thought.

Let's go back to Sue.

Yeah, just go back to Sue, because she's

saying some good stuff here that I really want to get.

SUE SLATE: OK.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So just kind of back up just where

we left off here.

You know, from the training and being able to now provide

that for other people.

SUE SLATE: We were there for four days for that peer

counselor training.

And by the end of it, I had learned so much about myself.

But also I learned how to give back.

And it occurred to me at that very moment

that that's the path I wanted to take.

I'm not a selfless person.

I like to spoil myself.

But I really do believe it is the onus (unintelligible)

a lasting positive legacy.

And I really saw up here counseling as a way to do that.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Go to a two shot.

CREW: (unintelligible)

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.

I'm going to ask it again.

SUE SLATE: OK.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Don't hit your mic.

SUE SLATE: Oh, I'm sorry.

CREW: That's OK.

It's very natural thing to do.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I particularly like

the part talking about, you know,

as you were being trained to be a peer counselor you were

learning a lot about yourself.

Let's pick it up from there.

SUE SLATE: OK.

Through that peer counseling session--

that four day intense session--

I learned so much about myself.

I learned to forgive some of the people

that I think held me back in my life earlier in my life.

I learned to be an active listener.

And the thing I learned most about myself is my next path.

And that was life changing.

I knew that a good chunk of my time for the rest my life

would be trying to give back, and to enhance

the human condition.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Alright.

Let's come out to a two shot.

And this is up for grabs here, either one of you

want to jump in here.

You know, without mentioning names

and without getting into a lot of detail,

but was there any particular moment or particular situation

when you were peer counselors with other individuals

that stick out in your mind as being that moment where

you realized you were doing something really good here?

SUE SLATE: A lot of times when you're at peer counseling you'd

put in your time.

And, you know, the time would go by

and nothing monumental would happen.

But I can remember two times--

one was a young woman.

And she was very stressed out.

She wasn't necessarily saying she

was going to do anything radical, such as commit suicide

or anything.

But she was at that level where the intervention right there, I

felt, made a huge difference.

And she did later come in to the LRC meetings.

And she never knew who I was.

You didn't identify yourself as your name.

But just from listening to her talk at the LRC meeting,

I had a very strong suspicion that she had walked up

those same steps with trepidation, as had I,

a few years earlier.

I felt really good about that.

And I felt good for her.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you have anything to add to that?

GIN SHEARS: There were a few conversations,

which for me was interesting in that I had not

had much interaction with men previously.

And I would get phone calls at the Peer Counseling Center

for men who were having issues or had questions.

And that was-- there was one who did call who was very--

he was crying on the phone.

He was so upset.

He didn't know where to go.

And we ended a long conversation with him feeling better.

And he thanked me.

He said, "You know, you've really been so helpful."

I mean, just someone saying, "Thank you,

you've been helpful."

And I could tell in his voice he had just calmed down

and was looking at life differently after that.

You know, it wasn't earth shattering.

But there was a lot of satisfaction out of doing it

when you had one that really you could

tell they were appreciating it.

CREW: No, I think it's fine actually.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Excuse me for a second.

So, again, either one of you here.

Do a two shot.

You know, the Lesbian Resource Center

back in the seventies and eighties, you know,

I want to get a kind of sense of what the issues of the day

were.

You know, what was the topic of conversations?

You know, I can't imagine we were talking about gay marriage

at that time.

You know, it was before things like AIDS, you know,

came into the picture.

GIN SHEARS: Oh, it was.

Yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So what were the issues of the day,

other than coming out?

GIN SHEARS: I'm thinking back to the seventies and eighties

issues that we talked about there.

Job discrimination was one.

I know for Sue, and other women, there

was child custody issues for women who had children.

I think those were the big issues at the time.

Marriage wasn't on the horizon at all, but job discrimination.

And there were some issues I know at the different bars we

went to.

There was some police harassment at that time.

They used to take down license plate numbers in the parking

lots.

They would come into bars and just be a presence

and intimidate people.

And that was one of the issues we dealt with on a daily basis.

And there was discrimination around, you

know, one day you know, Sue and I were walking down the street.

And somebody in a car going by yelled, "dyke!"

You know that was unsettling.

SUE SLATE: I think we responded with--

GIN SHEARS: Yeah?

SUE SLATE: Thank you for noticing.

KEVIN INDOVINO: But on that note, Sue,

I'm going to ask a slightly different question.

Not so much what were the issues,

but what were your biggest fears back then?

SUE SLATE: Well, I think the issue in the seventies

and the eighties was fear.

I had a great amount of fear.

I had a good career.

I loved what I was doing.

I was a public school teacher.

I was good at it.

There was a lot of fear around, oh, public school teacher.

You know, if you're gay, you are not acceptable.

If I lost my job how could I, you know, raise our son,

and give him the opportunities that I wanted him to have.

I was a fear--

I was very fearful of losing custody of our son, Travis.

That was huge.

I also did not want to be controlled by fear.

So that was an issue, too.

How do you conduct your life?

How do you find that path so you don't let fear control you,

and you still take care of business?

And it was a maze.

I personally came to the decision--

of course, people still did pump gas in those days--

if I had to pump gas for a living, fine.

If I have to scrub toilets, I am not

going to sell my soul ever again.

Because I really felt I had in my earlier adult life.

But that decision was--

it was a conscious decision to make that fear-- to fight.

To make that decision to fight the fear,

be honorable to myself, and to our child,

and know that I was going to survive

and be able to raise him.

But that was the issue for a lot of people.

Fear was the biggie.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, we'll just go with that.

Just briefly then this next question

I had here about the Lesbian Mothers Group.

Just talk to me a little bit about that and again,

how supportive that was for you.

SUE SLATE: Actually I got to meet quite a few mothers

during the Lesbian Resource Center meetings.

Which was enlightening to me.

I had no idea what to expect.

I was totally ignorant.

So as we started talking at some of the LRC meetings we said,

you know, let's bring these kids together.

Let's let them know they're not alone.

And we had some wonderful gatherings.

You know, I can still see us out in a private small lake--

which was owned by one of the members.

All these kids of all ages standing in the pond--

or the lake-- eating watermelon and spitting watermelon seeds

at them--

at each other.

And I thought, you know, they're just kids.

And now they know they're just kids.

And they've got moms or they've got two dads.

But whatever they've got, it works.

It works.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So kind of an off the wall question here.

If I'm an outsider or heterosexual outsider looking

in at that picture, what would you

want me to see in that picture.

SUE SLATE: Healthy, happy kids.

That's what you saw when you looked at those kids

spitting those watermelon seeds.

All the moms stood around with, you know, cameras.

And that's what anyone would have seen.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So let's move into employment here

a little bit.

Gin--

GIN SHEARS: Excuse me.

KEVIN INDOVINO: You know, I remember

listening to your interview that you did with Evelyn

about getting the job at Kodak.

But it wasn't necessarily the most welcoming environment

for lesbians at the time.

GIN SHEARS: Well, I started out--

after college I was an instrumental music teacher

in the city school district.

And that was 1976, big budget cut.

And they cut a whole bunch of music teacher jobs.

So I was unemployed.

And there was an opening for an apprentice at Kodak

in the sheet metal area.

So I said, I need a job.

So I went there, and I got the job.

And at the time--

well, it was a factory job.

And it was mostly men.

And a little intimidating, but not awful.

There were some guys who might make a comment,

but not in the area where I was.

It was a relatively enlightened group that I worked with.

My boss was terrific.

The guys I worked with were younger than me, most of them.

They were-- some just out of high school.

And I got a few comments.

Once I was walking down the hall with another woman

from the apprenticeship group who was a lesbian.

And she was fairly obvious.

I guess I was, too, wasn't I?

SUE SLATE: Yeah.

GIN SHEARS: And there were some comment made like, oh, there go

two of Kodak's finest.

You know?

But that's about the only thing I ran into.

I think I went at it from the point of view

I have a job to do.

I will do the best I can.

And I'm not going to let anything get in my way

or interfere with that.

And I just went about life, like most people do.

And I made some very good friends there.

Friends that I'm still connected to.

Men that I worked with who are married,

you know, straight men.

And we still get together, even though I'm retired now

and they're retired.

But it was not overwhelmingly scary.

And early on, Kodak developed the Lambda Group,

which was a Kodak gay organization that was sponsored

and supported by Kodak.

Xerox had one going.

And things were starting to really improve around

gays in the workplace.

So I was there at the right time.

And I was pretty much out at work.

Not by plan, but just happenstance.

And I had Sue's picture in my tool box, and Trav's picture

in my tool box, like everybody else did in the shop.

You know, and we talked about family and what

we did on the weekends.

And it was very natural.

And I think that made those people

with whom I worked look at us as, well, they're

no different than we are.

So it's a little bit of enlightenment for them.

And it was very comfortable.

After a while it was just a very comfortable place to work.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I almost want to say though

that you're the rare exception in a lot of ways.

Then you were very open with your lifestyle--

GIN SHEARS: Yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: --and your family life in that.

But I'd have to imagine that for a very long time

people were very closeted.

GIN SHEARS: Before that time, earlier on,

I was with a woman who was ten years older than I. And she--

I met her at one of the bars.

Excuse me.

And she was the vice principal of one of my elementary schools

where I taught.

And I could see that in her life--

coming into the gay life earlier on--

it was harder.

She had a lot of fear.

And had to pretend to be straight in a lot

of social situations at work.

She was very fearful of losing her job

if someone found out she was a lesbian.

And she made me aware of that fear when I was teaching.

And it was--

I think that was more normal for her to be more fearful.

Because in the fifties and sixties, it was harder.

But things started getting better later into the seventies

and eighties.

And I guess I'm just a (unintelligible) that

doesn't think about somebody might not

like me because I'm gay.

So that's just the way I am.

But I know that people a little older than we are did

have more problems coming out and being out.

And were facing more fearful situations than I did.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So we're going to move forward then.

We're going to talk about the Chamber of Commerce

and an issue with the prom.

Was that you?

SUE SLATE: Well--

KEVIN INDOVINO: I didn't have a date on this.

Do you know what year it was?

SUE SLATE: I believe it was '80--

GIN SHEARS: '83?

SUE SLATE: '83.

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.

Well, let's just start there. in 1983

there was this issue with the Chamber of Commerce.

SUE SLATE: Well--

KEVIN INDOVINO: Tell me the story.

SUE SLATE: During the early eighties--

as we were working with the Alliance and serving as peer

counselors-- we all--

Gin and I-- took on the task of hosting the gay proms.

We had had no problems finding space.

And then we thought, wow, let's have it

at the Chamber of Commerce.

How fancy would that be?

Everybody showing up all dressed to the nines.

And we were agog when we were refused access.

Initially, you know, we just sat back and went, wow.

We have been to all sorts of major hotels and restaurants

and all of that.

And that's when the Alliance said, we're going to--

this is wrong.

And it was decided at a GAGV meeting at the time--

I believe at least one of us was on the board.

I'm not sure, but we were both there.

We said, we need a letter writing campaign.

We need to let every single person know about this.

In our lives we have found out that there

are a lot of heterosexual people that

absolutely don't know the level of discrimination that goes on.

When they find out they go, wow.

Just like with DOMA.

Huge number of people, once they learn about DOMA--

gay or straight-- just say, that's wrong.

So we went about our business doing a letter writing campaign

to every business, to every person we knew,

to every press outlet, every media outlet, everything.

And we sent out something like five thousand letters

to people, hand-cranked off or--

it was before-- you know, I think maybe we

had an Apple 2E by then.

Yeah.

And we had an Apple 2E.

It had spell-check, that's all it had.

And so it was labor intensive.

And it was all off our dining room table.

And then we started going to the meetings, the city--

no, the board meetings for the city government.

And we were there for two or three meetings.

Interestingly enough, through those meetings

we were on the front page of the paper.

We were quoted in the newspaper.

And that was an interesting--

there was an interesting result of that as well.

And eventually there was a nondiscrimination clause

written as a result of that letter writing campaign, people

showing up at City Council.

And it changed life in Rochester in terms of contracts.

It had many positive ramifications.

It's almost actually a good thing

that we were turned down for the prom.

Because the fight led to greater access, and much more positive

results all across the boards in city contracts.

So I was glad it happened in the end.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Gin, is that what led up then

to the winning of the Vicki cup, or-- and I'm

sure that there's a lot of stuff that led up to it.

But--

GIN SHEARS: Well, after we got involved with the peer

counseling thing, then we got more involved with the Gay

Alliance itself.

And we both were on the board for several years.

Off and on one of us or both of us

were on the board of directors of the GAGV.

And that led into the working with the gay prom issues,

and then the Chamber of Commerce thing.

And that letter writing campaign,

I believe that did lead to us winning the Vicki cup in '84.

Not because of being on the board,

but I think that contributed to it.

We had been involved for quite a while.

But then that letter writing campaign,

I guess that was the catalyst for us being

nominated for the Vicki award.

And it was pretty exciting.

We still have it at home.

It's, you know, prominently displayed.

And it was a wonderful thank you from the gay community to us.

And it was very touching.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Give me a two shot.

I'm going to ask her the same question,

but I want to make sure we get both of them in there.

So Gin-- and, Sue, if you want to jump in there as well--

yeah, just talk to me about winning the Vicki cup.

was this the first year of the Vicki cups,

or they've been around for a while?

GIN SHEARS: I'm not sure.

I don't know.

SUE SLATE: No clue.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So same kind of question.

Just talk to me about, you know, the work that you guys did,

and how that led up to you guys winning the Vicki cup.

GIN SHEARS: Well, we had spent--

excuse me-- we had spent time working in the GAGV, both of us

off and on being on the board of directors,

and heading up the gay proms.

And when we did the letter writing campaign,

it was after that we were nominated for the Vicki

cup, which was wonderful.

It was kind of exciting.

Whoa, well, thank you.

But then we won it.

That was kind of a surprise.

Because there were so many people

doing so much at the GAGV that we were--

I guess I considered us small players in the bigger picture.

But it was quite a thank you, and we're very proud of that.

And it was quite a thank you for all the work we had done.

But the Chamber of Commerce letter writing campaign,

I think, was the real big issue that

maybe got us elected for that.

SUE SLATE: Ironically, we took on that job

because we thought it was something we could do.

We could work on this letter writing campaign

off our dining room table.

And it would be like our clerical contribution.

The way the letters were written though it was--

we pleaded with people.

Each one reach one, or two, or three, or four.

And so I think that's how it mushroomed.

And we got some good press for the whole issue as a result.

So, yeah--

GIN SHEARS: Yeah, that was when your picture

was on the front page of the Times Union.

And it was on the table in the teacher's conference room.

And people danced around it all day.

And I finally said, "Hey, I'm on the front page of the paper."

"Well, we weren't quite sure how to approach it."

Well, come on folks.

You've worked with me for many years.

I'm a star.