Video Interview, Maureen Boyle and Vickie Fumia, April 11, 2012
- KEVIN INDOVINO: How are we looking?
- CREW: As good as we sound.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And we're sounding good?
- OK.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Wonderful.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I don't know how I'll take that,
- but I'll roll with it.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Are we sure there's no food in teeth?
- VICKIE FUMIA: No, there isn't.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Good.
- You should never eat before you do these things.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: You're looking good.
- And we're rolling.
- OK, so I'm going to start out very generally.
- I'm going to ask you individually
- the same kind of question.
- Marie, let's start with you.
- When you came to Rochester, what was Rochester like?
- What was the gay community life?
- What were you finding out there?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Actually nothing.
- Supposedly, we are one in every seven people.
- If that was the case, I felt like I
- was the only gay Rochesterian.
- I had heard about Rosie's.
- But being alone, I wasn't real sure I
- wanted to go visit a bar that I knew nothing about.
- And then when I found out the location,
- I was fairly certain I didn't want to go there.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Where was this?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: So back in '76, 7, I think.
- So there wasn't much that I knew about the gay community.
- And the gay people I finally did meet was after Vickie
- and I opened an antique business.
- Then it became a little bit more wide open.
- But again, when you open your own business,
- you're there twelve, fourteen hours a day.
- So going out wasn't high on the list of entertainment.
- VICKIE FUMIA: It wasn't Rosie's that you were--
- CREW: No.
- No, this was back in the day of the RV.
- VICKIE FUMIA: River View, yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So, I mean, what social outlets
- were available to you?
- I mean, it sounds to me like you didn't really
- seek a lot of them out.
- But I mean, again, what were you hearing out there?
- Where were you meeting people other than maybe
- the antique store?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: I didn't really meet anybody.
- I met Vickie through her mother, and I met her mother
- through the guy that I worked for.
- And that's how I met Vickie But Vickie wasn't gay either.
- So we really didn't know where to go.
- We had each other.
- And as I said, since we were the only two gay people
- in Rochester, weren't we lucky?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Vickie, you grew up in Rochester area.
- So what were your impression of the community back then.
- If anything, what were you doing?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Didn't really hear much except that being gay
- wasn't anything to announce to anybody.
- But I didn't know I was gay anyway.
- So there wasn't that much to hear about.
- I don't remember hearing about names of the bars.
- And there were a number of bars around then.
- But I didn't really go to any--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What happened to make you finally
- realize that you were gay?
- VICKIE FUMIA: I met Maureen.
- MAUREEN: Me.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Tell me about it.
- Tell me about meeting Maureen.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Well, Maureen was a friend of my mother's.
- And my mother would always talk about this wonderful girl.
- (unintelligible)
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So at first you said,
- you didn't know you were gay.
- Well, what happened that changed that?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Well, Maureen was a friend of my mother's.
- And my mother would talk about this lovely girl.
- But it was a while before I met her.
- And I remember I met her and I said, why,
- she's really good looking girl.
- And I thought, that's a strange thing to think.
- But anyway-- and then we started spending time together
- or whatever, and then--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Unfortunately Vickie
- fit the stereotype of a gay woman.
- She drove a 1965 Corvette.
- So I would went, oh, she's gay.
- She wasn't.
- So I pursued her assuming she was.
- And after I kissed her the first time, she said I'm not gay.
- I think I knocked over a Coke, and said excuse me.
- I'm going home, bye.
- I never did get to go home.
- We had a discussion then.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: At some point, a relationship or friendship
- developed here.
- Let's take it a couple years later.
- You'd opened up an antique shop together?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yes.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Now talk to me about that.
- Talk to me about that decision to go into business together.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Well, my grandparents were collectors
- and my parents were collectors.
- And so I was a collector.
- And I had all this stuff.
- And I said, you know, we ought to open up an antique shop.
- And that way we can get more stuff.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: I knew nothing about antiques.
- To me it was used furniture.
- I did develop an appreciation of it,
- and I read voraciously as Vickie is a voracious reader.
- VICKIE FUMIA: So we opened up an antique shop,
- and it was a lot of fun.
- We had a good time doing that.
- And then I bought a building on Monroe avenue.
- And I had always wanted a bar.
- I didn't drink, but you know.
- And so I thought, this would be a good place for a bar.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: It also happened to be across the street from
- Friar's.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Right.
- Right?
- And then we could have a cross-current a lot of people
- in and out.
- And so after a couple of years of renting out the property--
- and there were apartments in the building also--
- we hired a fellow.
- And the three of us worked on putting the bar together.
- In that's what happened.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, let me back up a little.
- Let's go to Maureen.
- Maureen, when Vickie told you she wanted to open up
- a bar, what were your thoughts?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Well, across the street from the building was
- Friar's.
- And every so often, Vickie would stumble back across the street
- and say, did you how busy Friar's is, did you
- see the money going across the counter.
- And I'd go, yeah.
- And she goes, we could make that money.
- We could have a bar.
- And I'd go, it's not all fun and games.
- It's very hard work.
- Yes, but the lights.
- The lights Maureen, and the money.
- Now, I used to say when you Vickie
- dollar signs in her eyes, it was never a good idea.
- Vickie had dollar signs in her eyes.
- And I kept saying, it's going to be a lot of work,
- a very lot of work.
- No, no, no, we'll have a wonderful time.
- And she'd say, remember the antiques.
- And I'd go, I know, I know.
- But it's going to be work.
- And I didn't think it was the best idea Vickie ever had.
- But Vickie was very happy with this idea.
- So when Vickie wanted something, we went ahead and did it.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Give me a shot of Vickie
- I'm going to have you tell me the same, exact story,
- but I want to get some reactions off of Vickie So, again,
- if you could just kind of briefly
- go from what your initial through were when
- Vickie came up with this idea.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Well, when Vickie came back
- from going from Friar's to back to the shop, she'd look at me
- and go, did you see the money, did
- you see how much money they spent over that counter.
- And I'd go, yes, Vickie.
- And she'd say, we can make them.
- Think of the lights.
- You know, the music it'll be fun.
- And I'd go, it's going to be a lot of work.
- It's always a lot of work.
- Vickie said we'll have fun.
- We'll really have a lot of fun.
- There's a lot of work.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Vickie, besides the lights and the money--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: No, no, no, no.
- That was it.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Because also you were going to be in competition
- with Friar's.
- I mean, talk to me about opening up a bar
- across from a fairly well-known gay bar and some
- of the challenges thereof.
- VICKIE FUMIA: That never occurred to me.
- I thought that we would open up a very nice bar.
- We'd have great lighting.
- We'd have wonderful music.
- And it wouldn't be that we'd be in competition.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: More like an annex.
- And they could trip across the street and back.
- VICKIE FUMIA: But, no, I never thought about competition.
- What I really wanted was a nice place for people to go.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And the lights.
- VICKIE FUMIA: And the lights, of course.
- But, well, it didn't quite work out that way.
- The lights were great.
- The music was great.
- We'd go to New York to buy the music, buy the new stuff--
- I don't know-- every maybe three, four months.
- And we just never ran--
- I never had a feeling of competition with Friar's.
- But what happened was interesting.
- We wanted to open up a gay bar, and people
- weren't used to mixed bars.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: They're still not used to mix bars.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No, they're not.
- So anyway, we opened up as a men's bar.
- And that didn't last very long because there really weren't
- that many men that came in.
- And so then women started coming in.
- And we said, well, at least it's a nice place for women to go.
- And they did.
- They liked the music.
- They liked me dan--
- we had a nice dance floor.
- We had a nice bar, and we switched to women bartenders
- for the most part, except for a couple
- of guys that we still kept on.
- And it was a nice place to go.
- And I used to love to watch the lights.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Maureen, besides offerings
- a place to drink and dance, what else
- do you think Rosie's was providing for the community,
- in particular, the women's community?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: A safe place to go.
- I think the women, when they came in,
- knew that they wouldn't have to worry about somebody
- literally beating them up or, when they went to their cars,
- somebody harassing them.
- We used to patrol kind of around our building.
- And basically I lived in the neighborhood.
- So it really was a fairly safe neighborhood.
- And it was more the fact that they knew they really wouldn't
- be harassed when they came in.
- They wouldn't be harassed by other people
- because we didn't allow fighting.
- If you fought, you got thrown out.
- And once you were thrown out, you never got back in.
- The first couple of years, it didn't mean anything.
- But by the third year, they knew we were serious.
- We stopped them at the door and said,
- nope, sorry you're not coming back in.
- And they say, oh, but I was younger then.
- And my attitude is your stripes don't change.
- You're going to cause trouble once, it'll happen again.
- And liquor is a perfect way to let everything escalate.
- And we just never allowed that to happen.
- And if it did, we stopped it.
- We used to hire the biggest guys we could to be bouncers.
- The reason we did is because big people very rarely
- have to fight.
- So we knew the guy, whoever it was on the door,
- wasn't going to beat the crap out
- of whoever it was that was creating the fight.
- But he would be big enough to stop them and move them
- out the door.
- And if it was bad enough, then we'd have them arrested.
- And we followed through with the police, which
- made the police respect us.
- So that was basically it.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Talk to me about,
- from a customer's point of view, the experience of walking
- into Rosie's.
- What was it like?
- VICKIE FUMIA: It was kind of like magic land,
- really, if you came in at night on one of the nights
- that we had the DJs and the lights going.
- It was very exciting.
- The music was fantastic.
- The lighting was great.
- And every maybe three years, we tried to change the lighting,
- i have it all taken down and redone.
- And people came in, and they had a good time.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: It was always decorated.
- VICKIE FUMIA: And we didn't have to worry about fights.
- And the guys started coming in.
- So I thought it was wonderful until finally I
- said this is a lot of work.
- But that was after twelve years.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Either one of you,
- what are your fondest memories of the place?
- Is there one particular funny thing
- that happened that you really remember
- any particular incident that it was particularly memorable?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: I remember one.
- We had Christmas decorations.
- We also would go out and chop down
- the biggest tree we could find, which was usually
- some twenty foot mammoth.
- Our ceilings, I think, were what?
- Eighteen, sixteen feet tall.
- So we always have to cut it down.
- So we'd use the boughs to go around.
- We had cast iron posts in the bar
- which gave it that open look, but which held up
- the second and third story.
- And we had wrapped them in ferns, and twinkling lights?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, yeah.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And there had to be a good 400
- people in the bar to the point where
- you couldn't get out from behind the bar,
- and Vicki was at the door.
- And we had Jerry rig the lights so they'd all be continuous.
- Well, unfortunately, the posts going up were cast iron.
- And I don't know if a bare wire touched the cast iron or what,
- but a fire erupted on the post.
- The people around it thought it was
- part of decorations I think.
- I was screaming behind the bar, boost me over.
- Vickie was on the door.
- She spotted it.
- I spotted it.
- We both started to go for it.
- And Vickie reached the post first, stood up,
- grabbed a hold of the fern, pulled it down, stomped on it.
- I was half over the bar.
- I went, oh, I guess its handled, sat back down,
- and continued serving the people like nothing happened.
- And we went back to doing what we did.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Besides just running the bar,
- you became supportive of the community
- as a whole sponsoring pride and parades, picnics, whatever.
- Talk to me about that and how important that was for you
- guys to do that.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, it was very important
- because we were making an income from the bar.
- And not only that, we believed in the Gay Alliance
- and the picnics.
- And people looked forward to going to the picnics also.
- And so it was a fun time.
- And supporting them was just, I mean, what you would do,
- I would hope.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Your point of view,
- being involved with picnics and such,
- why was it so important for a business owner?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Basically, it allowed us to give back.
- I mean, not only were we supplying a place for them
- to come, but in supporting the gay picnic,
- it showed that we wanted to support the community.
- I think if it had been more political
- or if people had come to us with more things,
- we might have been more involved.
- But as it was, I don't think the Gay Alliance
- was all that strong back then.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: If you talk to some of the other bar owners,
- before Rosie's even--
- there's a lot of animosity with the police department.
- But you had police coming into your bars all the time,
- and there was never a problem.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Well, let me put it to you this way.
- We started running a juice bar that happened after hours.
- And then we called our lawyers to find out what we had to do,
- which was cover the back bar, remove the well,
- and put it underneath so it was not accessible.
- And then the cops would kind of raid us.
- They'd come through the door and would walk up to people,
- and I'd walk with them.
- Or Vickie would walk with them and say,
- if you're going to grab a drink, that's fine.
- Just let us know so that we can have it replaced.
- And they say, why?
- And I'd go, well, after you throw your nose in their drink,
- they're not going to want to drink their juice.
- And they would go around and sniff different drinks
- and then I'd send them to the bartender,
- and they'd get juice.
- And it was a pretty regular thing.
- They never caught us, and we never sold any alcohol.
- And the people that came in--
- I don't know how many years we ran it--
- but I think they only found a pint bottle and one beer
- bottle.
- So over a couple of years, that was about the main grouping
- of alcohol we'd ever found.
- People came to end the evening there.
- And the cops over the years finally
- figured out that we prosecute when we call them up,
- we're not calling them to contain our crowd.
- Basically they found nothing wrong with this,
- and if they started ticketing our patrons,
- we'd make them ticket the Glass Onion, which
- was around the corner from us.
- And the one time that I made them do this,
- the cop said, well, if you're going to blame anyone,
- blame her.
- She's from Rosie's.
- And then, of course they started coming to me.
- I said, hey, I don't mind getting ticketed, as long
- as everybody gets ticketed.
- So if you're going to blame anyone, blame them.
- And I think eventually the entire neighborhood
- started to realize that we were all just bars.
- So the perception of gay and straight kind of
- started to be melded, especially with the juice bar.
- Everybody started coming in.
- And as long as you didn't create any havoc, you were welcome.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Right.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And they had a good time.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: As years progressed,
- we had a community liaison Gordon
- Urlacher, who used to be a frequent visitor at your bar.
- Talk to me about him coming into your bar.
- And what was he like?
- And he used to bring his friends with him?
- VICKIE FUMIA: He was just somebody else who came in.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I need you to set it up for me.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Gordon Urlacher would come in,
- and sometimes he'd bring friends of his.
- And he was just stopping by and saying hello.
- And we never caused any problems.
- That was a no no.
- And if anything happened that we had to call the police,
- we were on the phone right away getting the police there
- by whose ever car that was causing the problem.
- And when we closed, we'd go down to the public safety building
- and fill out the reports, that we wanted this person arrested.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: So if you closed at 2 o'clock in the morning,
- the first thing was 8 o'clock, we'd
- have to be at the public safety building.
- And getting up to do those things is hard--
- especially you don't get to just lock the door
- and run home and go to sleep.
- You'd have to lock the door, go home, stay up
- for an hour and a half or two, look at the clock
- and say 4 o'clock in the morning, I have to get up by 7.
- I can do this, and you did.
- If you wanted the cops to at least pay
- attention to what you were doing,
- you had to follow through.
- And a lot of bar owners didn't.
- We did.
- And when the cops came to us, they
- knew that we followed through that way.
- So you build up respect that way.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: One thing I'm going
- to touch upon is, shortly after you guys opened,
- the whole AIDS pandemic came to light.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yes.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: How did that change the atmosphere
- at the bars?
- I mean, did you see a change?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Well, it changed a lot in the community.
- You could see that because so many of the guys were dying.
- And it was kind of heartbreaking.
- It was heartbreaking.
- So we would hope that our guys weren't out fooling around
- when they shouldn't have been.
- And we went to the funerals and we went to whatever.
- But it was just so devastating--
- devastating to the entire community
- when fellows that you've known for a few years
- suddenly drop dead.
- And then, of course, there started
- to be a lot more information on AIDS,
- and then it wasn't just gay men that were dying of AIDS.
- There were people all over.
- There were women dying.
- There were kids dying, especially in Africa.
- But I think it was a time when more of the guys
- started to settle down, too, which was a good thing.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But Maureen, Rosie's didn't just kind of
- stand idly by.
- I mean, you guys kind of actively
- got involved in some of the AIDS fund raising.
- Can you talk to me a little about that?
- Some of the things that you guys may have done.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Well, we'd have drag shows.
- You want to talk about that?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: No, go ahead.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, all right.
- We'd have drag shows and have some of the money
- go for supporting AIDS--
- things like that.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Again, can you put it in context for me?
- Why as a business owner, did you think
- it was important to help step up to the plate
- and be part of this AIDS awareness campaign or whatever.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Because this was affecting
- a vast number of people.
- It wasn't just a small group here
- in New York or a small group there.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: It was like a tsunami.
- It was inundating and thoroughly swept away almost
- a whole lifestyle in front of us.
- It went from being rock and roll sex and a good time
- to somberness.
- That's how I kind of felt. And when we did the shows
- or put up little jars for somebody's medication,
- it was just the least we could do.
- That's how we felt, anyway.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So when people look back,
- they look back at this twelve year
- history of Rosie's, what do you want them to recognize
- about what Rosie's was?
- What it did for this community?
- VICKIE FUMIA: A great place to go, wonderful music.
- The lighting was fantastic, and it was peaceful there.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And there were no mirrors on the dance floor.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No, no mirrors on the dance floor.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: That's why you didn't get the men.
- VICKIE FUMIA: That's right.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Now you tell us.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Let me look over my notes here.
- VICKIE FUMIA: But you used to come in.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I did.
- When you look at where things stand today
- for the gay community, particularly in Rochester,
- coming from the perspective that you had from years ago,
- what are your thoughts now today and what, importantly--
- if you had a message for the younger generation,
- what would it be?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Well, I think that here in Rochester, the Gay
- Alliance has grown tremendously.
- They're doing wonderful things.
- They've got programs for kids in high school.
- I think that if people--
- if young people think that they're gay,
- I think they ought to come to some of the programs
- that the Gay Alliance sponsors.
- I think that more people ought to--
- well, of course, respect gay people.
- There's nothing the matter with gay people.
- They have two eyes, a nose, a mouth--
- whatever.
- That's it.
- They're just people.
- And people definitely ought to respect each other.
- They need to be kind to each other,
- and that's what I would hope the message is to everybody--
- be kind to each other.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Any last words?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: That was very nice.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Well, thank you.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: I think gays have become more acceptable.
- And that sounds terrible.
- But it's true.
- We've become much more mainstream than we used to be.
- But, again, that all comes from standing
- on someone else's shoulders.
- And there'll be a whole generation
- standing on our shoulders.
- Rosie's won't even be an inkling.
- So I just hope that they take forward the fact
- that they should be proud of themselves,
- that it has to start from within to billow out.
- And when we-- at least when I was growing up,
- I used to hear about the glass ceiling
- and I would every so often question Vickie and say,
- was there a glass ceiling that I didn't know we burst through.
- And Vickie would look at me and laugh and go,
- I didn't see one either.
- Basically, just believe in yourself.
- Tomorrow is always another day and have a good time
- while you're going there.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: All right, thank you.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: You're welcome.
- VICKIE FUMIA: You're welcome.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Damn, it's cold in here.