Audio Interview, Stanley Byrd, April 5, 2013

EVELYN BAILEY: Today is April 5th,

and I'm here at the University of Rochester

talking to Dr. Stanley Byrd, who was a student here

at the U of R from 1972 to '74, and has now working

at the U of R as an organizational developmental

specialist for the University.

So Stanley, or Stan, were you born in Rochester?

STANLEY BYRD: No, I was born in Florida.

But I've lived here most of my life.

EVELYN BAILEY: And when did you first come to New York?

Was it as a student?

STANLEY BYRD: No, 1958.

As a child.

EVELYN BAILEY: And so you grew up--

STANLEY BYRD: I grew up in Rochester.

EVELYN BAILEY: In the city.

STANLEY BYRD: Yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: And what was the city like at that time?

Was there, to your knowledge, a gay community?

Was there any talk about LGBT issues?

STANLEY BYRD: Well, I came out when I was twenty-one.

So that was in 1975.

And I have to say at that time for me there was a lot of fear

around being a gay person any place.

Certainly what I heard about bars being available

and other things like that, other social avenues,

I didn't partake of until I was about twenty years old.

And part of the fear was, I mean,

from what I remember at that time,

it was still illegal for same-sex people to dance,

and that the clubs were still being raided.

I mean, I remember going to clubs that were raided.

So there was a lot of fear during that period.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall whether there was--

a sense there was more harassment by police,

by city officials at that time?

Because we have recorded stories of people

being harassed outside bars by police, being stopped, being

questioned.

And the police notoriously went through the areas

taking down license plate numbers with the caveat

that they wanted to know who was in the area

if a crime was committed somewhere in that area.

I mean, that's pretty far-fetched.

But were you aware?

STANLEY BYRD: Very aware, because there was always

a police presence, particularly on the weekends.

There were always police hanging out around the bar.

I mean, I was even fearful going in

because you have these folks in uniform,

like, watching you as you went into the bar.

Police would walk through the bars,

you know, just sort of checking out things and seeing

what was going on.

And occasionally we felt--

I certainly felt fearful when several police came in.

And it felt like--

I mean, it was a raid, and basically

they were just walking through to see what was going on.

And like I said, I think at that point in time

there was still some strangeness around same-sex people dancing

together.

So people would scatter and sort of go to their mutual areas,

and just sip on their drinks, et cetera,

while they were going through.

So I do remember that.

I mean, certainly when I first started going out to the bars,

that was still happening.

And that was, like, '74, '75.

EVELYN BAILEY: And here on campus,

were you a member of the Gay Liberation Front?

Or were you a member of the--

well, by then, '73, they had left the campus.

But there was a presence here.

It may have been called Pride--

STANLEY BYRD: It was the Gay Liberation Front.

EVELYN BAILEY: Gay Liberation Front.

STANLEY BYRD: It was the Gay Liberation Front.

So in the summer of '72--

I actually started here the summer before my freshman year.

And I don't know how I heard, but I heard

that there was this gay group.

And so I wanted to explore this part of my life.

And I do remember I was told that they

met in the Anderson building.

I think that was the building, the Anderson dorms.

And I remember it took me weeks to get up

the courage to go up there.

And I went to the Anderson building.

There was no meeting going on, but there

were the Empty Closet, or I'm not

sure what it was callled then.

EVELYN BAILEY: Empty Closet.

STANLEY BYRD: There were copies of that lying around.

And even picking that up, I visibly

shook, because it's like I was touching something that

related to being gay, you know?

Based on all of the fear.

And so that was kind of how I knew that there

was something on campus.

But at that time, I was still too closeted and too fearful

to come out.

I wouldn't have ever thought about joining any group.

And also being an African-American man, well,

that's the farthest thing from my mind

was to join a gay group.

But I do remember going to Anderson,

finding the Empty Closet newsletter,

and being thrilled and excited at seeing it

but at the same time very fearful

that someone was going to see me picking up the newsletter.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you happen to know

if there were more formal meetings going on

on campus with the group?

STANLEY BYRD: I can't quite remember

how I found out that there were more formal meetings going on.

I mean, that's why I found out about Anderson.

I don't remember how I found all that information out.

But somehow I found it out.

It may have been my roommate because my roommate was gay.

And he was actually more out than I was,

and so he was exploring all kinds of possibilities.

And so I'm thinking that may have been the person who

shared it with me.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall a dean

by the name of Flora Burton?

STANLEY BYRD: Not at all, no.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

Once you graduated from the U of R?

STANLEY BYRD: I didn't graduate from the U of R.

I was only here for two years and I

transferred to another school.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK In Rochester, outside of Rochester?

STANLEY BYRD: I'm sorry.

I finished up my degree at Brockport.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK, so you've been in Rochester since 1959.

STANLEY BYRD: Well, I lived in Boston for a year.

That's where I went to initially after leaving University

of Rochester.

And I lived in Cleveland for a year.

But otherwise, I've been in Rochester the whole time.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK, when did you become

involved with AIDS Rochester?

And prior to that question, let me ask you,

as an African-American male who is also

gay, what was the more pressing issue for you?

Was it your African-American heritage or was it being gay?

I mean, you were both.

Which presented the most conflict or the most

disruption?

STANLEY BYRD: I would have to say, even

to this day, the one that's most present for me

is being African-American.

There are some places where people

wouldn't know that I was gay.

So for some folks, that was invisible.

But I can't hide my race.

I can't have the tone of my--

the color of my skin and all that.

So those are the places--

I mean, even on this campus back then,

it was strange because I didn't feel connected

to any of the groups here.

And my experience even on this campus as a black person

is even though I was in the top 5 percent of my class,

I was put in a special program.

And that's why I was here the summer of '72.

And it's not a program that I needed, but I'm black

and I was put in with all the other black students who

got EOP funds.

I didn't get anything, but I was still

placed with that group because, I think, of my race.

So that stood out more for me than anything else.

Like I said, I didn't come out to myself

wholly until I was twenty-one.

So that was a couple of years after my experience here.

EVELYN BAILEY: Now, the University

was founded as a Baptist University.

It was certainly founded because of technology,

and at the same time, RIT had Mechanics Institute.

And they were really the technological place to be.

But the University picked up some of that and expanded it.

Both agreed to bring diversity into this community because

of the creativity, the intellect,

and the melting pot would create new opportunities,

new businesses, new ideas.

And actually, that's-- when you look at the history

of Rochester, at one point there were fifteen railroads that

came into this town.

And the canal was the gateway to the west.

And so it was a natural place for many, many people

to come and create a new vision, and new work experience.

Was there more of an influence here

in the U of R about religion, religious beliefs,

at that point during your time here?

Or had that kind of--

STANLEY BYRD: I have to say to you

that for those years leading up to me applying

to the University and being accepted,

I thought that people of Jewish faith

were the primary group that was coming here.

That's all that I heard was that it was a Jewish university.

So it's interesting for me to hear

you say that it was founded on the Baptist religion.

And so I had this sense that this was a Jewish institution

that I was entering, and whatever went along

with that at the time.

EVELYN BAILEY: And when you got involved with AIDS Rochester,

were you working?

Did you have a job?

STANLEY BYRD: Yes, yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: And what brought you to AIDS Rochester?

Why did you become involved with that organization, and when?

STANLEY BYRD: My best friend was one of the first ten people

in this county to die of AIDS in 1984.

It still makes me feel very emotional.

There was very little they could do for him, of course,

at that time.

The medications were all new and all that.

And so I felt that I needed to give something back.

I mean, and I tried to find ways to help

other people who were going through what he went through.

And so I worked as a volunteer case manager.

I think it was either '85 to '87 or '87 to '89.

I can't quite remember the date.

But I worked as a volunteer case manager for two years.

The majority of the folks who were assigned to me

were African-American.

So they signed the African-American clients to me.

And the most I could do at that time was be at their bedside

and be there when their families came

so that they had someone to sort of help them negotiate it.

And even with several of the clients that I

had who were in hospital at this point in time,

they were telling their families that they had cancer.

They didn't talk about--

they cautioned me, don't say anything

about me being gay or bi, ever.

As far as my family knows, I have cancer.

And so I had to be very thoughtful as I

was interacting with families.

At that time, I was going to individuals' homes

to check up on them.

And so as a volunteer, I had to take on notes

as a volunteer case manager.

And so it was very different.

But I did it for two years.

And I did it, like I said, because it

was such a devastation to lose my best friend to that disease,

and not be able to help him.

It really, really hurt me not to be

able to do anything to make them feel

more comfortable other than being present with them,

et cetera.

And so I just wanted to do something more than that.

And that's why I went to ARI, AIDS Rochester,

and decided to be a case manager.

EVELYN BAILEY: And at that time, Jackie Nudd--

STANLEY BYRD: Yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: --was executive director.

STANLEY BYRD: Was executive director, yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: Was Michael Beatty there?

STANLEY BYRD: No.

No, Michael wasn't there.

EVELYN BAILEY: He didn't come until much later.

STANLEY BYRD: I'm thinking there is a Pat something.

I can't think of her name.

There was a nurse that did a lot of the clinical pieces.

I thought her name started with Pat.

So I interact with her a lot.

EVELYN BAILEY: Did you interact with, perhaps, Sue Cowell?

STANLEY BYRD: Yes, yeah, I've known Sue for--

EVELYN BAILEY: In the health department?

STANLEY BYRD: Yes, I've known Sue for a very long time,

starting, probably, with AIDS Rochester.

Yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: Bill Valenti, of course, was--

I'm trying to recall when Community Health Network began

in relationship to AIDS Rochester,

because they were doing research and Bill was much more focused

on patient care and pushed to move out of U or R

and develop his own clinic and his own--

he recalls that 1981 was the first time

he heard or encountered the AIDS complex here in Rochester.

They identified-- there was one of their patients

at the University came through, and Bill

had read the information and the description of Kaposi's

sarcoma.

And he identified this person as being the first person

he ran into with AIDS in 1981.

And then there was a whole--

well, it was one person out of how many.

And then as the disease progressed, of course,

by 1984, '85, it was epidemic.

And just left and right, men, primarily gay men, were dying.

Every other week we were going to funerals.

And it was a time, I think, when the community really

came together to support the men who had AIDS,

and to provide financial aid and assistance.

Because each HPA, Helping People with AIDS, began in 1986.

Can you speak to that climate at all?

When you were a caseworker, did you

find the gay community coming together

as a supportive group for friends,

for relatives, for people they knew?

STANLEY BYRD: Well, certainly with ARI,

I realize that there was a coming together

in the community.

And certainly all the people at that point in time I think

were gay and lesbian folks who were really

trying to rally around the group, around the epidemic.

And helping people with AIDS, I was

very aware of that because I was trying

to connect some of the clients I work with to that organization.

But once again, I was working primarily

with African-American individuals.

And I didn't feel the same kind of support

for that group of individuals.

It really was just sort of me making sure

that I took great notes so that whatever next level of care

they needed, they received that.

But I think-- and as we go on to our other topic around MOCHA,

I think that's one of the reasons why

an organization like that was created.

There wasn't a sense that black men were recognized

as part of this epidemic.

Because at that time, it was predominantly white men

who were showing up.

It doesn't mean that there weren't

black men dying from it.

But it was white men who were showing up with the disease.

EVELYN BAILEY: And how long after that

did you become involved with MOCHA

Were you still in Rochester?

And no longer, I--

or maybe you no longer were with AIDS Rochester.

STANLEY BYRD: No, not at that point in time.

So MOCHA has been around to 1996.

But if I could just talk about the whole community health

network.

One of the things about community health network

is it was in the Rochester-- it was in the same building

as the Rochester Center for Independent

Living on South Avenue.

And so Gary English was Americorp volunteer

at the Rochester Center for Independent Living, OK?

So they allowed space for him to plant the seed for MOCHA.

So it's really incredible that we had this health care

center that was supporting folks with HIV and AIDS,

and then we have this person who had a vision who was actually

right next door at the Rochester Center for Independent Living.

And they allowed him the time and energy

and support to sort of start looking

at the issue related to African-American and black men.

And so I met Gary probably in late '94, '95,

and we were engaged in conversations

about what the grant would look like

and what we could do with the grant and those kinds

of things.

And so he had great support in writing the grant,

I think, from the Department of Health as well.

And so he was able to get the grant that

is what started MOCHA.

And at that point in time, he decided to-- he appointed me

as first board member of MOCHA.

So in 1996, I became the first board member in MOCHA.

And MOCHA lived in the Center for Independent Living

for three to four years.

EVELYN BAILEY: Side by side with CHN.

STANLEY BYRD: Yes, so MOCHA lived in the Center

for Independent Living.

They provided us with three or four cubicles and an office.

There's an office for the director,

and then the staff, the outreach staff, the health educators,

et cetera, worked in the cubicles.

So I mean, Rochester Independent Living under Tim Weider.

Tim really saw the need, too, and the vision

of supporting Gary, I think, in creating this new organization

that was much needed.

So it's an interesting story.

And when you think about the linkages--

EVELYN BAILEY: The connections.

STANLEY BYRD: And the connections, yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: And that's one of the things that's, I believe,

unique to Rochester.

Because the connections and the intersections of those

connections are how we have become a city that is not only

gay friendly, but very open to diversity, very welcoming

of practically any religious group and any ethnic group.

We'll get to that later, but--

say, talk to me a little bit about Gary English

in terms of his vision, in terms of what he wanted to do.

STANLEY BYRD: Well, Gary, I'm not sure how he--

I think working with the Department of Health,

one of the things he noticed is that black African-American men

weren't receiving the kind of services.

He also had, I think, friends, and I

don't know this for a fact, but I'm

assuming he had friends who were suffering from HIV and AIDS

as well, and he was realizing that many of those individuals

would not go to a white clinic for support and for help.

They wouldn't go to ARI because some folks--

I don't want to use the word--

some folks were private about their sexual orientation.

I don't like to use the word "down-low" because "down-low"

has a connotation that it's only black men.

But white men are also, if you're

going to use that term, on the down-low

too around their sexual activities.

So his vision was certainly creating

a space where African-American men, black men, Latino men

would feel comfortable going to to at least seek

services that would connect them to the broader services.

One of the things that we did is we partner with individuals

to go get tested because there was a lot of fear

around getting tested and going to this (unintelligible)

in this institution.

A lot of the testing happened at the health department then.

And so, I mean, to go there and--

I remember going there and being tested myself.

And it was the Westfall Road.

And you go and they put folks who

are being tested for HIV behind this great, big screen or wall.

So first of all, we had walk into this place

and be tested for HIV with all the connotations

an et cetera behind that.

And then they set us in this hallway

with this wall that they--

with this temporary wall that was put there.

And then we were waiting there to be

tested and just terrified, I mean,

about the possible results.

But so Gary realized that--

certainly he didn't feel that the African-American men

were getting the same level of treatment and support.

Part of that was because folks, really, I think,

needed to see other people like themselves

in whatever environment they found themselves in.

And they certainly didn't feel that

with some of the organizations that were occurring.

I mean, out of all of that also Gary

felt that there was a need for a pulling together

of the black community.

So that's why in addition to what eventually became

case management and health educators, et cetera,

we also did things that were more fun.

Like the annual picnic and those kinds of things.

So his vision was really not just about HIV and AIDS

and making sure that people have support for that.

His vision was about how do we pull

the black, African-American, Latino community together

in the same way that the white community was pulling together,

to meet the needs of our individuals

who are suffering HIV and AIDS.

So it was a broad vision that was about certainly

the health care related to HIV and AIDS,

but also about the social-emotional needs.

And I think that's the biggest piece that we still struggle

with, I think, even today.

And that the social-emotional needs may be a little different

because of people's families of origin

and how they were treated and all those kinds of things.

So broad vision.

And Gary was a young man.

So it was an incredible vision.

EVELYN BAILEY: Can you tell me just a little bit

about the energy that he exuded?

STANLEY BYRD: Well, Gary definitely

was an extrovert and very passionate about this work.

And I think that's why he was able to, when

he went into rooms and he was trying to share with folks,

he was trying to do.

I think that's why he was able to convince them.

He was very passionate about the work.

It was really clear that this was a person who was not just

a talker, but that he was going to also make himself involved

in making all of this happen.

But I don't know if you've heard anything about Gary,

but he's a very passionate extrovert who is a charmer.

So he would go into, like, different rooms

and present what he needed to present

and, I think, basically, just charmed individuals

into seeing his vision.

I mean, really seeing the vision and seeing the need for it.

EVELYN BAILEY: And you've remained connected to MOCHA

over the years--

STANLEY BYRD: Absolutely.

EVELYN BAILEY: --in various capacities.

STANLEY BYRD: Actually, so I was the board

chair for three years.

And then we got an additional grant for case management.

And so at that point, I became a staff person.

And I was the MOCHA services coordinator.

And because of my background in HR,

so I wrote their policy procedure manual,

and I wrote the case management manual.

And then that's when we started training people

on different intervention techniques,

like many voices, many men, those kind of techniques

that we work with in conjunction with the Department of Health,

and--

I'm trying to think of the woman we work with directly.

She's still there.

EVELYN BAILEY: Department of Health?

STANLEY BYRD: Yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: Kim Smith?

STANLEY BYRD: No, her husband is the director

of the Department of Health.

EVELYN BAILEY: Darlene--

STANLEY BYRD: If I can remember the last name.

I'm so sorry that I can't remember it.

EVELYN BAILEY: No, that's all right.

STANLEY BYRD: But we work directly, really

directly with those individuals.

And so I was a staff person then for another two and a half,

three years because we had gotten additional grants.

And so the program was expanding at that point in time

to include case management.

Because before that, it was really just outreach,

sort of we parallel HPA in some of our outreach.

We did lots of outreach and education programs

in the community and those kinds of things.

But I think it was the case management piece that really

enabled us to feel like we were providing an expanded

service in connecting folks to what they needed service-wise.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

Was it MOCHA that began the mobile unit

or was it AIDS Rochester?

STANLEY BYRD: I'm sure it was AIDS Rochester that

had been at the mobile unit.

We didn't have the resources, really,

to do something at that level.

EVELYN BAILEY: But you began to do testing at your offices,

I believe.

STANLEY BYRD: I'm thinking--

I'm not sure, because at the time that it was in the off--

I'll put it this way.

At the time that we're in the Rochester Independent Living,

there wasn't the privacy to do that.

We began testing when we moved to the Sibley building.

So one of the things I did under my tenure is I moved--

we had moved from independent living to,

I think, the ninth floor, I think, of the Sibley building.

So we had a wonderful space there.

And that's when we really started getting

lots of community members.

Because it wasn't associated with independent living

because, you know, there was this sense now,

am I going because I need some other support later

to disabilities, et cetera, et cetera?

So it was in the Sibley building that we

started expanding our services with the case management,

and also with some testing.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall the year?

STANLEY BYRD: No, I don't.

I have to look at my resume to remember.

EVELYN BAILEY: Late '90s?

STANLEY BYRD: It was late '90s, though.

So I mean, we're talking '96, so within three or four years

we had the grant.

So late '90s, yeah.

Because it was late '90s because--

I'm trying to think where our transition to work

was after that.

But it was definitely late '90s that we

were in the Sibley building.

EVELYN BAILEY: And at that time, was

some of your goal being accomplished

of bringing the African-American community together?

STANLEY BYRD: Absolutely.

I mean, from the beginning, one of the first things

that Gary did, I think, in '97, I think one of the first things

was the annual picnic, which has always been well attended.

So that happened.

But the other thing was when we were in the Sibley building,

like, that's when we really started seeing

more of the population coming.

And at my tenure, when we had the Sibley building,

I created several programs.

One program was My Brother's Keeper.

And that was for individuals who were older.

EVELYN BAILEY: So that was after.

That wasn't before MOCHA was founded.

It was a part of MOCHA, My Brother's Keeper.

STANLEY BYRD: Yeah.

I mean, that's what we named--

I mean, see, there was there was another organization called My

Brother's Keeper, but we used that word as an internal

program to meet the needs of thirty-five-year-old-plus

individuals.

Because one of the things that was happening is we were

getting a lot of young people at that point in time coming

to Sibley's.

We created something called Coffee Chat.

And initially, we were having those outreaches

in a couple of coffee houses, and then we

brought it into MOCHA.

I created a program called Safe Space.

And I facilitated discussions of spirituality.

Because one of the big things that certainly the young people

were presenting to us is I have no worth or value

because my church tells me so.

And so one of the challenges was to see

that there were still good.

And whatever Creator you believed in,

you were still good people.

And so the safe space--

sacred space.

Safe Space is the program I created here.

The Sacred Space Program was, really, monthly folks came in

and I just had them talk about spirituality.

And just to help them think about how they could reconnect

with their spiritual lives.

Because a lot of these young folks

were kicked out of their homes.

Many of them were homeless, you know, et cetera.

And so we were trying to help them reconnect.

So that's when we started expanding

those kind of social--

it wasn't just HIV and AIDS.

I mean, many of these people weren't positive.

But they came because it became sort of a community space

as well.

We also, when we were in the Sibley building,

we had a computer lab.

So folks could use the computer.

Some folks were looking for jobs, et cetera.

So they had the opportunity to be in a safe space

where they can do all those things.

So it became many things once we were in the Sibley building,

because it was our space.

You know?

EVELYN BAILEY: And you could create what you wanted.

Was there a youth group?

STANLEY BYRD: We worked with the GAGV

because we had many youth coming there.

And so initially we had someone coming from GAGV

to help us run--

EVELYN BAILEY: Patty Hayes.

STANLEY BYRD: Yes.

Oh, you know these folks.

Wonderful.

Because we really wanted to make sure

that they were getting the benefit of someone who

had worked with youth groups.

And so Patty came in and helped run the youth groups.

EVELYN BAILEY: And at that time, how many,

average number of youth, would come?

STANLEY BYRD: I would say twenty a day.

I mean, the place was always-- when we were open,

there was always the youth there.

And I think it became a safe haven,

I think, really, truly for some of the youth.

One of the things that we tried to do,

certainly, with some of the programming,

I certainly made sure with Sacred Space

and a couple of other programs, that we provided some food.

And it was usually sandwiches or pizza or something.

Sometimes this was the only meal that these kids had.

Sorry.

And so it became more than just a place for HIV and AIDS,

you know?

And one--

EVELYN BAILEY: It became a family.

STANLEY BYRD: It became a family.

And I don't know if you heard the name Fatima, Fatima Woods?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.

STANLEY BYRD: Fatima was our first transgender receptionist,

which she was very proud of, and we were proud of her.

And she, in some ways, became a mother

to some of the younger people.

And so, I mean, that was needed.

And I don't-- you know, just in that space, you know,

she could be motherly and talk to him about things that some

of us weren't as comfortable talking to.

Because the staff still was predominantly male at that

point in time.

And so it was great having other influences in the space.

EVELYN BAILEY: And I suspect many of the youth,

or most of the youth, were male.

STANLEY BYRD: Yeah, most of the youth were black.

We have some Hispanic.

One of the things that was interesting during that period

is there were, I would say, 50 percent

of the youth were individuals who

were looking at their identity as transgendered individuals.

So that was an interesting place too.

And who knows if the egg came first or the chicken.

Was it because of Fatima's presence

as a safe place for folks to come there,

or was it just a safe place?

And it really doesn't matter.

But it was amazing how many of the individuals

were assessing their identity as a transgendered individuals.

EVELYN BAILEY: It is amazing, because transgender

has really, over the past ten years,

come into such focus for the public,

and for the gay community.

I mean, because a person transgenders,

it does not imply that they're gay.

They may or may not be.

And there are a lot of, still, misconceptions about what

that whole experience is like.

There was a film that ImageOut showed on the 26th of March

on intersex.

And that's another area.

People who are open and who really

emanate a sense of care and concern,

always bring out and bring in young men and young women who

identify differently but know they

will be accepted, because the embrace is there.

It's not a wall.

It's not a hand going up saying, oh, step over here, let me--

it's come into my space and let's talk.

STANLEY BYRD: And we did eventually--

EVELYN BAILEY: And I think Fatima exemplified

that very, very well.

STANLEY BYRD: And we also had-- we did eventually

have young women coming up, some who identified

as lesbians, some not.

They came with their friends.

So that was pretty terrific as well,

you know, to bring other allies with them

as they were in our space.

EVELYN BAILEY: And when did you move to Liberty Pole Way?

When did MOCHA go to--

STANLEY BYRD: Oh, goodness, when did they move there?

I mean, I was gone by then.

So they were still in this--

I left MOCHA in 2003, so they were still there in 2003.

So I can't really tell you when they moved,

but I know that they were still there in 2003.

So maybe within two years, maybe,

like, 2005, around that time.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yes, because by the time

I came back to the Gay Alliance, which is 2003,

and had been on the board a few years,

you were then at Liberty Pole Way.

Because shortly after that, I was asked

to sit on the board of Mocha.

They wanted me because I am good at fundraising.

STANLEY BYRD: We still need you.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.

And also because the Gay Alliance and MOCHA

wanted to create a closer bond, a more structured bond.

Today, you're back involved with MOCHA,

or are you just finishing your term?

STANLEY BYRD: Well, before we go there,

let me just go back to when we were in the Sibley building.

So we were talking about the youth.

And I love how you phrase, like, a warm, inviting

people really-- anyone can feel that and see that.

So often, I'm sitting in my office

and I have these young people coming in.

And they would sit in the chair while I was doing work.

And they would look at me, and they would say, are you gay?

I says, yes.

They said, well, you don't act gay.

And I would say, well, what does that look like?

Tell me what you think that is.

And they would sort of describe a lot of the stereotypes

that they had heard.

And they would say, why are you here?

I can't believe that you're here.

You could probably be doing other things.

And I said, well, you know, I helped

create this organization, and it's,

like, it's where I want to be right now

and I want to help people.

But it was just interesting.

I had three or four young people come in my office.

They thought I wasn't gay, you know?

It was interesting.

EVELYN BAILEY: I think that happens a great deal, and not

just with African-Americans.

The image that many people have of what gay is,

is really blown when they meet someone

who doesn't meet that image.

You have people in corporate America who, on the pansies

and on the image that people expect.

And that's what makes it so incredibly forceful.

It doesn't allow people to keep us in a box.

STANLEY BYRD: And I have to tell you, I actually run it.

I mean, I actually work for a couple other--

I work for Action Front Center as well.

I work there as well.

But one of the things that was interesting for me

with my experience in the way that I present

myself-- and I've always been this way,

this is just how I am.

There were some gay folks who said to me, why

are you ashamed of being gay?

And I says, I'm not ashamed of being gay.

What do you mean by that?

Once again, they were talking about my behaviors

and my way of presenting myself and talking to people.

And I would say, but I am gay and there is more than one way.

As many gay people there are, there

is that many ways of being gay.

But I actually had some individuals

who thought I was pretending or passing because of who I am.

And I had to tell them that no, this is how I do it.

(laughs) You know?

I'm sorry, I mean, you know, I'm here and I'm present

and I'm doing great work and I'm visible in the community.

And how I'm not ashamed.

I mean, I was on RATFA, Rochester Area Task

Force on AIDS.

I worked for Action Front Center as also their services

coordinator.

You know, I was very visible as a gay person,

as an advocate and champion for supporting people

with HIV and AIDS.

So it is very interesting that if you don't--

that stereotype that people have, if they don't see it.

One of the things that happens with stereotypes

is they can't trust you unless they can fit you

into that stereotype, right?

And so they didn't know what to do with me because I

wasn't like their stereotype.

So sometimes there was this distrust

because I didn't fit their little box.

EVELYN BAILEY: And I think that's actually

the basis of a great deal of mistrust,

and also the basis of a great deal of trust.

Because when people realize you're no different than me,

you don't behave differently, you don't act differently,

you don't speak like a "gay person" quote,

unquote should speak, whatever that is, then

they have a very difficult time saying, get out of here,

and pushing you away.

STANLEY BYRD: And quite honestly, I

mean, here at the University of Rochester, and certainly

things--

something like this is going to make

me more visible than I was.

But there's hundreds of people who know I'm gay here.

I told my boss in my first one-on-one meeting

with him that I was gay.

He thought that was a wonderful addition

to the diversity of the University

is how he phrased it.

And that was the end of that conversation.

There's never been another conversation around it.

So I certainly choose--

I out myself a lot because I do a lot of workshops.

And I think it's important when there's not a gay person

present that there's at least a voice there.

So it's just so interesting.

And so one of the most challenges

I've had sometimes with black African-American folks,

particularly folks who are more religious than others.

And those are the folks I sometimes--

I call it go after them, meaning I sit

and I present myself fully as who I am.

And they can't put me in a box either.

And so I've had some of those folks

say are you sure you're OK?

Yes, it's not about the stereotypes.

And I think once--

like you said, once individuals start seeing people

as individuals, once more and more people--

and that's what's happening in this country--

know people, friends, their children, their loved ones who

are gay, and I'm using gay to include that whole continuum,

it's like some of the stuff falls away, which is wonderful

that it does fall away.

EVELYN BAILEY: But there are still

pockets in this country where segregation

and not allowing African-Americans

into an establishment still exists.

I find it mind-blowing to think about that and to realize that.

I want to ask you a little bit more about the issue of faith,

spirituality, and being gay.

One of the most difficult hurdles