Audio Interview, Max Reiter, February 7, 2013
- EVELYN BAILEY: Today is February 7
- and I'm sitting here with Max Ritter.
- MAX REITER: Reiter.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Reiter, sorry, who
- has been a member of the community
- here in Rochester since 1963.
- So Max, when you came to Rochester,
- were you out, or were you--
- MAX REITER: No.
- I was in high school.
- And I did not come out until--
- now let me think--
- I wasn't out when I was in college,
- I went to Monroe Community College from '66, fall of '66
- to spring of '68.
- And during that time I went to one gay bar, which
- was The Blue Chip.
- And The Blue Chip was located on Brown Street--
- there was a triangle--
- and I want to say Brown and Allen, maybe.
- And I can't think of the other intersection.
- Might have been Maple.
- Maple, Brown and Allen.
- There was little triangle--
- EVELYN BAILEY: It wouldn't have been Main?
- MAX REITER: Nope.
- No, it was set--
- right now, when you get off 490 at Maple Street,
- I think it's Maple, or is it Broad.
- It might be Broad and--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, Broad comes around and goes north and south
- between Main and Lyle.
- MAX REITER: OK.
- And that's the-- well, it was right there.
- I'm trying to think of what that place was
- across the street that isn't there now.
- But where Maple Street ends--
- EVELYN BAILEY: That's where The Blue Chip was?
- MAX REITER: Opposite from Mount Hope, Mount Reed
- is where this was.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And do you know who owned it?
- MAX REITER: I don't.
- I don't remember who owned it.
- I just remember that it was my first experience there,
- and being afraid that it was going to be raided
- or you were going to be arrested.
- But I went with straight friends of mine
- from Monroe Community College, a girl that I went to high school
- with.
- And she was not gay, and two friends of hers that were women
- but were not gay.
- And I'm pretty sure another friend from high school,
- his name was Henry.
- And I think he was gay, but now I think
- he's married and has kind of--
- EVELYN BAILEY: How did you find out about The Blue Chip?
- MAX REITER: From them, from these people.
- Because I never even heard of it.
- But I just remembered being there--
- VOICE OF SERVER: (unintelligible)
- MAX REITER: Thank you.
- VOICE OF SERVER: (unintelligible)
- MAX REITER: And there was terrific music at the time.
- Everybody was on the dance floor.
- It was inner city, just all inner city.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Was it mixed?
- MAX REITER: It was mixed.
- But I think it was more men.
- I think it was more a men's bar.
- But I also remember at that time visiting a bar
- on either Clinton Avenue or--
- I think it was Clinton, Clinton Avenue North--
- and it was the first drag show that I ever saw.
- And I don't remember the name of that bar,
- but I remember that there was a--
- EVELYN BAILEY: The Rathskeller?
- MAX REITER: No.
- Nope.
- This was on North Clinton near Avenue D.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Was it on North Clinton?
- OK.
- Because what we can do is--
- what I can do or a student can do
- is go to the city directories and find the business
- establishments on North Clinton at the time.
- The city directories not only have names of people,
- but they have names of businesses
- broken into restaurants, entertainments, plumbing,
- all of that stuff, plus they have the lists of streets
- and the establishment on those streets,
- if they were commercial.
- They don't tell you, like if you went to Clover Street,
- you're not going to find anything
- on Clover Street between this number,
- because it's all residential.
- So you could conceivably, if there were businesses there,
- you would be able to find out what businesses
- were on Clover in 1968 or '67 or '66,
- and then backtrack from that to the property records
- to find out who owned them and when they got their liquor
- license, et cetera, et cetera, who got the liquor license.
- MAX REITER: So the headliner performer at this bar,
- this neighborhood bar, was Misty Lynn.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Misty?
- MAX REITER: Lynn.
- EVELYN BAILEY: L-Y-N?
- MAX REITER: Probably L-Y-N-N, maybe.
- And that was the first drag show that I ever saw.
- And that was in 1968, 67.
- The fall of '66, '67.
- And that was the same as The Blue Chip.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- Now when you were in college, do you
- have any sense of what Rochester was like then?
- I mean, was it--
- Eastman Kodak was--
- MAX REITER: Very big.
- My mother worked for Eastman Kodak,
- wanted me to work at Eastman Kodak, which I did for summers.
- For three summers, I worked at Eastman Kodak
- and realized that that was not where I
- wanted to spend my life.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Was B&L, Bausch and Lomb--
- MAX REITER: Yeah, B&L was around.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And Xerox, of course.
- Were there sections of town that were identified by--
- like in Boston, they have the red light district or where
- you'll find go-go girls and prostitutes and that sort
- of thing--
- was there an area in Rochester that was--
- MAX REITER: Probably downtown.
- I remember-- and I'm sure other people will remember this,
- too-- there was, I think a cross dresser that was
- murdered in downtown Rochester.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Hotels?
- MAX REITER: The hotels downtown were the Manger.
- EVELYN BAILEY: M-A-N?
- MAX REITER: G-E-R. The Cadillac Hotel.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Do you remember where the Manger was?
- MAX REITER: The Manger was on Main Street and Clinton Avenue.
- And there was an arcade, Manger Arcade,
- that led into Midtown Plaza.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now is that the same now?
- Because there is an arcade, but that's on State Street now.
- MAX REITER: Reynolds.
- Reynolds Arcade.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But that's not--
- MAX REITER: Not the same.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- MAX REITER: And in the Reynolds Arcade
- used to be the Western Union office, where
- you could go to send telegrams.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Was Front Street there at that time?
- MAX REITER: Front Street was.
- I remember shopping on Front Street.
- And they had a great little men's shop called the Toggery,
- T-O-G-G-E-R-Y, Toggery Shop.
- EVELYN BAILEY: T-O-G--
- MAX REITER: G-E-R-Y. T-O-G-G-E-R-Y.
- EVELYN BAILEY: A number of people
- have mentioned a men's shop on Front Street,
- but I didn't have the name until--
- MAX REITER: How about Beansy's?
- Beansy's Bargain Basement was another place
- that was, I'm pretty sure, on Front Street.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Beasy's Bargain--
- MAX REITER: Beansy.
- B-E-A-N-S-Y. They used to refer to it as Beansy's Bargain
- Basement.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- And I know they were purveyors.
- There were meat stores and grocery, fruit markets
- and that sort of thing.
- And then there was Ma Martin's, right?
- MAX REITER: And you could not see the river from the street.
- There were shops along Main Street
- and there were shops along Front street.
- So you never saw the river when you were on Main Street.
- Where you saw the river was when you went to the Rundel Library.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- DONALD: I believe everything he says.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Hi.
- MAX REITER: Hi, Donald.
- DONALD: How are you?
- MAX REITER: How are you?
- EVELYN BAILEY: How are you?
- DONALD: Good to see you.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Good to see you.
- MAX REITER: Did you get out early?
- DONALD: My last half hour did not--
- or my last hour didn't book in.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So Toddery, Beansy's,
- and the river, you couldn't see until you got to the library.
- MAX REITER: And this was in '65, '63, '64.
- And then they renovated downtown,
- I think once Midtown Plaza started,
- it caused a whole renovation in downtown.
- And I think Midtown opened in 1963, I want to say.
- And there's a great video on YouTube,
- and I think it's called--
- it's not called Mall of America, maybe Malls--
- but if you look up Midtown Plaza on YouTube, there's a great,
- I'm going to say five- to ten-minute video that came out.
- EVELYN BAILEY: On the building of it.
- Now I'm not from Rochester.
- I didn't come to Rochester until 1976.
- But what was at Midtown before?
- Before they built Midtown, what was it?
- MAX REITER: See, I'm not sure.
- Because I came just after the mall opened.
- So everything was gone.
- But there was a street that they are re-introducing
- with this new renovation since they've torn Midtown down.
- They're going to re-do it the way it was,
- from what I understand, before Midtown went up.
- So these little streets that were there,
- that ran from Main Street back to Chestnut Street.
- I want to say Anderson Street, maybe it's called.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- MAX REITER: OK.
- And then there was maybe another little street back in there.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But it was land.
- It was not a part of the river or--
- MAX REITER: Right.
- EVELYN BAILEY: It was land.
- VOICE OF SERVER: Sir, do you think you need a--
- Oh, OK.
- MAX REITER: Thank you.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now do you remember--
- VOICE OF SERVER: Do you want me to grab you one more tea, or--
- EVELYN BAILEY: --who was mayor then?
- VOICE OF SERVER: OK.
- MAX REITER: OK.
- Let me see.
- Stephen May was mayor in the early '70s.
- And people suspected him of being gay.
- And before that, there was Ryan-- no, Ryan was later.
- Nope, Mayor Ryan, might have been Ryan.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Before Steve May?
- MAX REITER: I think so.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But then Ryan was mayor afterwards.
- MAX REITER: Oh, he was?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Ryan was mayor in 1980s, early '90s.
- MAX REITER: Oh, OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Berry?
- Mayor Berry?
- MAX REITER: No, I don't remember that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Or Barry?
- MAX REITER: No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- No, I can look that up, too.
- Can look that up.
- So once you found The Blue Chip, did you expand your--
- MAX REITER: No.
- I went two years at Monroe Community College.
- I probably only went to The Blue Chip twenty times.
- And it wasn't a place where I would go alone.
- I wasn't that confident at the time.
- And it wasn't in an area of the city that was reached easily.
- It wasn't on a bus line.
- I didn't have a car.
- So I had to rely on friends to go there with.
- But it was, without disrespecting anybody,
- like if you talk to the owner, it was a neighborhood bar,
- it was like gay bars were back then, not clean.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Not many lights?
- MAX REITER: More lights than you'd
- expect, I remember being lit.
- Didn't smell good.
- I think they left the bathroom doors open a lot.
- Nope, there weren't neon lights.
- But people just, I remember the people that got up and danced,
- they were more the flamboyant mean.
- And I remember there being more African-American inhabitants.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Customers, clients.
- MAX REITER: Customers, yeah, than not.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now from MCC, where did you--
- did you stay in Rochester or did you--
- MAX REITER: I went to the University of Hawaii.
- So I was out of Rochester from the fall of '68
- until the spring, until the summer of '71.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- And had it changed when you came back?
- MAX REITER: I changed.
- DONALD: Ask him what he studied.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You had changed.
- MAX REITER: I had changed.
- While I was Hawaii, I entered the seminary.
- And I got a degree in psychology and philosophy,
- and came back to Rochester because the Vietnam
- War was still in progress.
- And I had been taking my physical
- and could have been drafted had the law for--
- can't think of the word.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Conscientious.
- MAX REITER: No.
- When you, selective service, you go because you can be drafted.
- And there was a lottery and they gave out numbers.
- And my number was 125.
- And in October of '71, the selective service law
- was not renewed and the lottery system went away.
- And after that, people signed up voluntarily,
- and they were not--
- I don't think the draft has ever been reinstated since then.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So conscription, or the requirement to serve,
- was repealed in '71.
- MAX REITER: Yep.
- I think October of '71.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And so being in the service
- became a voluntary act.
- Was the Vietnam War still going on?
- MAX REITER: Yes.
- I'm pretty sure, yup, '71 it was still going on.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And so there were no longer a need
- to be a conscientious objector.
- MAX REITER: Correct.
- EVELYN BAILEY: If you didn't want to serve,
- you didn't have to serve.
- MAX REITER: Right.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- And from before you left to the time you came back,
- I'm sure there were many changes probably in the city landscape,
- in the city skyscrape, you know.
- Midtown obviously was up and running and--
- was there, B. Forman and McCurdy's were in Midtown,
- and I think Scrantom's was in Midtown.
- Lord and Taylor's?
- MAX REITER: Record Theater.
- MAX REITER: Nope, not Lord and Taylor.
- Let me think.
- Hershberg Jewelers.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And then of course, Sibley's
- across the street.
- MAX REITER: McFarlane's was a men's store.
- The National Clothing store was downtown.
- It was another high end clothing store.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So what did you do when you no longer had
- to serve?
- MAX REITER: Well, I came back and I
- got a job with a Catholic school, in Irondequoit.
- So I taught for five years.
- EVELYN BAILEY: God bless you.
- MAX REITER: Thank you.
- For five years, I taught--
- EVELYN BAILEY: At Bishop Kearney?
- MAX REITER: Nope.
- Right next to Bishop Kearney.
- There's a little grammar school on Carter Street, St.
- Josaphat's.
- And that's where I taught.
- And it wasn't for the Diocese of Rochester,
- even though they were affiliated in some way.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Because they were Ukrainian.
- MAX REITER: They were Ukrainian.
- So I was there for five years.
- EVELYN BAILEY: There are many smaller schools
- like that in Rochester.
- MAX REITER: I didn't know that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: On Ridge Road, there's that Byzantine church.
- They have a school.
- MAX REITER: That's the one.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That's St. Josaphat?
- MAX REITER: East Ridge Road.
- That's St. Josaphat's.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Then there's Archangels
- down on Winton, which is a private school.
- There's Sisters of Mercy and so on and the Jesuits and so on.
- But then there was a school on Prince Street,
- the Madames of the Sacred Heart had a school on Prince Street.
- Aura Academy is on East Avenue.
- It's a very exclusive--
- MAX REITER: Is it still there?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- Very exclusive.
- Now Empire State, I think, has taken over some
- of the school on Prince.
- But there's a private school, Cornerstone School
- or Cobblestone School.
- MAX REITER: Cobblestone.
- EVELYN BAILEY: On Prince.
- So there are many independent educational institutions
- for elementary, junior high and high school here in the city.
- So after your stint of five years in a classroom-
- MAX REITER: During my last year, I
- studied cosmetology at night school and summer school.
- And in '76, I passed my State Board exams
- and started working at B. Forman Company
- and teaching at the school, at Continental, part-time.
- So I taught there for fifteen years, '76
- to '91, at Continental part-time.
- And I work at Forman's, B. Forman Company in Pittsford,
- mainly in Pittsford, and have stayed in that area ever since.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And by then, you see, by '71, '72,
- Stonewall had happened.
- Were you aware of Stonewall?
- MAX REITER: Not at all.
- I didn't jump into the Rochester nightlife
- until I was working, in probably 1972,
- for Martina Theaters downtown.
- There were three movie theaters.
- There was the Studio 2, the Paramount, and in the Holiday
- Inn at the time, which is now--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, I remember this, yeah.
- MAX REITER: What is that hotel that's across
- from the convention center?
- DONALD: Crown Plaza?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Radisson?
- DONALD: I thought it was Crown Plaza.
- Oh, well.
- MAX REITER: No, I think Crown Plaza's on State Street.
- I think it's the Radisson.
- That used to be the Holiday Inn.
- And the little movie theater that was in there was called
- the Holiday Cine, C-I-N-E. And I managed part-time those movie
- theaters at night.
- And I was teaching in a Catholic school during the day.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now let me ask you if you recall--
- because I think it was at the Holiday Cine--
- an action that was taken by a number of gay women.
- They came, there was a porn film,
- or a film derogatory to women.
- MAX REITER: Cries and Whispers?
- EVELYN BAILEY: I don't remember what the name of it is.
- But Karen Hagberg was involved.
- And they came in and they--
- DONALD: She's one of the gals that was interviewed, right?
- She's one of the gals that was interviewed?
- EVELYN BAILEY: I think it was where
- the Holiday Inn, Holiday Cine was, at the Holiday Inn area.
- Because they were arrested.
- They picketed and they protested.
- And I think, not positive, they broke one of the windows.
- MAX REITER: Well, there weren't very many windows.
- I think there were two in the front.
- It was a tiny little theater.
- And it's probably the smallest movie theater I've ever seen.
- If you compared it to one of the little theaters
- at the Little Theater, probably the smallest.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah, it wasn't big.
- MAX REITER: But I would love to know what movie it was.
- Because I remembered Cries and Whispers,
- it was an Ingmar Bergman movie.
- It showed for a long time.
- Lady Sings the Blues was there.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I can look it up in the EC.
- Because the EC--
- DONALD: That would be interesting--
- documented it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah, would have documented it.
- Because there were all kinds of actions being taken by women.
- DONALD: And you said her name was Carol--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Karen Hagberg.
- DONALD: Was she one of the ones that's in the trailer?
- Yeah, I thought I recognized the name.
- EVELYN BAILEY: She certainly doesn't
- look like the Karen that went to Eastman.
- Because in another picture, OK, in that same trailer,
- there's a shot of three or four women sitting
- at a table with Gay Liberation.
- And she has pigtails.
- DONALD: Well, I kept picking up on, OK,
- here's the real person today.
- And Because those pictures were from the past.
- You could pick out who they were, sort of.
- That was so well done.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Some of the other actions--
- let me turn this off.
- So Max, when did you become involved in gay activism,
- or involved in gay issues?
- Was it HPA?
- MAX REITER: Probably when I first
- stepped into Jim's on North Street in 1974,
- probably 1974, three or four, and it was just
- the place to be.
- You couldn't take people away from there
- cause it was so much fun.
- And you could just dance and dance.
- And I didn't hang out with drinkers.
- Just that the group that I went with,
- they weren't real, real big drinkers.
- So we would go to Jim's, we would dance until 2 o'clock.
- At 2 o'clock we'd get our coats.
- We'd pass Pat, who was the bouncer, at the door.
- We'd say goodbye to Tony Green and Ducky and Jim.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Was Tony a bartender there?
- MAX REITER: Tony was a bartender.
- And he was--
- I first met Tony when he was the coat check boy.
- And he would say things like, he'd sing, It's Liza with a Z,
- not Lisa with an S. Or he'd sing the song.
- And people would just roar.
- We'd all laugh because he was such an entertainer.
- And then I remember seeing a production
- that they did at Jim's, I think there
- were two nights that they, Sunday nights
- maybe that they did it, and it was Boys in the Band.
- And Tony Green was in it, Arthur Greenland, who's still around.
- Tony isn't, but Arthur is.
- And C.W. Davis was a man that was in it.
- I don't think he lives in Rochester any longer.
- But it was the first gay play that I ever saw,
- and it was presented here in Rochester.
- And I want to say that was 1970--
- no, yeah, 1970, maybe three or four.
- So there's probably advertisements
- of the play in the EC.
- EVELYN BAILEY: In the EC, right.
- Yeah.
- MAX REITER: But there was Jim's.
- And until Jim's closed and everybody went to Friar's.
- And in between, you would go to straight dance clubs, like 747.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Do you remember where that was?
- MAX REITER: 747 was on Scottsville Road.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- So not really in Rochester, just outside.
- MAX REITER: Yeah, it was by the airport.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- MAX REITER: Oh, I take it back.
- DONALD: It was out by Tully's.
- MAX REITER: No, it wasn't.
- The 747 was--
- DONALD: I went there.
- Years ago, though.
- MAX REITER: It was on West Henrietta Road.
- West Henrietta Road.
- DONALD: It's the one that looked like an airplane.
- MAX REITER: Yup.
- And it's where Movies 10, around where Movies 10 is.
- And then there was a place out in Chili,
- a dance club out in Chili.
- I can't remember the name of that one.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, you have to remember that
- in '73-'74, the EC is only three, four years old.
- And in '73, it left the University of Rochester campus
- and became a publication of actually the Gay Brotherhood.
- And then it became a publication of the Gay Alliance
- when the Gay Brotherhood merged with the women
- to form the Gay Alliance of the Genesee Valley.
- MAX REITER: OK.
- And what year was that?
- EVELYN BAILEY: The incorporation was 1973, December, 1973.
- So it was four, maybe four pages,
- front, inside, inside, back.
- And advertising back then wasn't certainly what it was today.
- There might be a little rectangle
- box with different print that announced something.
- And I'm not sure it would have been as well known
- or as advertised in as it is today.
- DONALD: Or distributed.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But incidences, like raids
- and those kinds of things, and certainly the movie theater
- thing and Boys in the Band would have
- been advertised in it, either in a calendar
- or in a coming event.
- DONALD: Are those older issued digitalized now?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes, they're all online.
- DONALD: OK.
- I wasn't sure how far back they went.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- The EC first issue was January, 1971.
- MAX REITER: And can you pay to see those?
- EVELYN BAILEY: You don't have to pay to see them.
- MAX REITER: Oh.
- They're just available to members?
- EVELYN BAILEY: No.
- MAX REITER: Oh.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I'll send you the link to the U of R,
- and you can search or you can browse.
- And if you choose to browse, you have your choice of years.
- And then within the years, you have your choice of months.
- DONALD: We saw a little sample of that,
- remember what Scott shared.
- MAX REITER: Right.
- But I didn't know how to get there.
- I mean, I don't know--
- DONALD: We'll need the link.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I'll send you the link.
- DONALD: Because we went to our training for the--
- MAX REITER: I was telling her.
- (unintelligible)
- DONALD: Fabulous.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Because that's where I came up
- with all of those HPA pictures.
- I looked online, then I went down to the basement
- and found the actual copies of the EC,
- got them copied in color or black and white.
- Color really didn't come into advertising in the EC until--
- MAX REITER: No, not until the--
- EVELYN BAILEY: '80s, late '80s, early '90s.
- Because it was, well, one, it was too expensive.
- DONALD: It was expensive.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And two, the way the newspaper was put together,
- it really, it wasn't, it was offset printing.
- It was typeset.
- And they didn't have colored ink.
- Or if they had colored ink, it was extremely,
- it was expensive to use.
- So in 1974, '75, '74 was Boys in the Band.
- And that was the first play, gay play, in Rochester.
- MAX REITER: That I ever saw, that I can remember.
- And I can't remember who directed it.
- I should know.
- DONALD: When did you start journaling?
- MAX REITER: '77.
- DONALD: Oh.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And was that your kind of entrance into--
- MAX REITER: Jim's.
- Going to Jim's.
- And then afterwards we would go out to eat at Mama Tacones.
- People would go and eat at Mama Tacones.
- They'd go to Howard Johnson's.
- They'd go to Howard Johnson's Twelve Corners.
- They would go to The Royal Knight on East Avenue.
- Somebody was just telling me they
- remembered the drag queens walking down
- East Avenue from the bars to go to Royal Night.
- And I remember being in there having breakfast,
- and they would come in and the local people would go crazy.
- They would just go, you can imagine
- in the '70s, when things were starting to get freer.
- DONALD: What time of night would that be?
- MAX REITER: After 2 o'clock So it would be 2:30, 3:00.
- We'd stay there until--
- DONALD: What are decent people doing up at that hour anyways?
- MAX REITER: Oh, we were all decent.
- Very hungry.
- We were hungry and decent.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So when did you take the next step in terms
- of actively becoming involved?
- MAX REITER: Actively, with issues was after AIDS.
- In 19-- I went on the board of HPA in 19, maybe '90, 1990,
- I want to say.
- And in 1994 was when I chaired Dining for Dollars.
- And even though I say that I chaired it,
- I felt that every committee was their own chair.
- It was just such a tapestry of love and devotion
- and dedication to this cause.
- And people worked as long as they
- did at their full-time jobs to make this come about.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What did you think, how did you feel when
- you first heard about AIDS?
- MAX REITER: I felt it was a conspiracy, at first.
- I felt that gays were being targeted, that I could never
- understand where somebody could say it was a gay disease.
- And it infuriated me to think that people would
- say that it was God's revenge.
- Because coming from a mother who said that it didn't bother her
- that I was gay, that she was more concerned that I was
- happy and healthy and didn't hurt other people,
- it was inconceivable for me to think
- that any kind of superior God, I mean supreme being--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Would mete out--
- MAX REITER: --would ever do that.
- So it was more, I needed to know more about it,
- and the more I found out about it
- and the more it started affecting people
- that I knew and loved, and didn't know
- and still felt a commitment to and felt that they
- were part of the community.
- And probably going to the picnics,
- to the gay picnics during the summers,
- and meeting more people and then realizing
- that more people were dying, I felt
- that I needed to step forward.
- And that's probably when I really
- was more confident with my sexuality, with being open.
- And it just came to be in 1994, when I was so totally involved
- with Dining for Dollars.
- And probably the biggest, most important thing
- that I felt I've ever done was to help with that event
- and to raise $125,000 after expenses,
- and people gave so much in our community.
- It profited for people, most people
- that I never even knew, that the people that were on our board,
- we volunteered, it was an all volunteer board,
- nobody was paid, and there was $112,000
- that went out into the community, distributed
- between AIDS Rochester, Community Health Network
- at that time, The Wish List Fund,
- and some individual grants to people.
- But it was just, every time I think of it,
- it just warms my heart.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, certainly the time, it was well
- after AIDS had taken hold.
- But it was pretty much at the height of the epidemic.
- MAX REITER: About ten--what is it-- ten, twelve years.
- It was 1981.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, Bill Valenti recognized it in '81,
- June of '81.
- But that was one case of Kaposi.
- And he really did not see another case for a good six
- months to a year after that.
- Because even though people had HIV,
- it didn't begin to come out, blossom,
- exhibit itself, for a year, sometimes two years.
- And at that point, they were dealing with it
- on individual basis and individual cases.
- There was no real community response until 1984,
- when Jackie Nunn was hired to be executive director of AIDS
- Rochester and the hotline began at Gay Alliance.
- And then she went to Liberty Pole Way.
- Well, Tara's and then Liberty Pole Way.
- And then in, I think it was in '85 or '86
- that CHN, Community Hope Network, began.
- Because Bill broke away from Strong
- and wanted to do direct care.
- He was in research.
- And then from CHN it went to ACHN,
- and then finally the merger a couple years ago between AIDS
- Rochester and AIDS Care or AIDS, A Community Health Network.
- So that all of those services were tied together
- under one roof.
- When you did Dining for Dollars in 1994,
- and I'm asking because I don't clearly remember,
- were ere treatments that were somewhat effective?
- AZT, I think, was out.
- MAX REITER: AZT.
- AZT and numerous amounts of medications,
- I'm pretty sure people were taking.
- Another proud moment in my life was Tony Green
- announced that they were looking for an executive director
- for AIDS Rochester.
- And there was going to be a fundraiser at Joe Bombazutto
- and Tom Hackett's house.
- And I told Tony that I had a friend and a customer who
- was an executive director at another agency,
- and she was interested in possibly looking at the job.
- So I brought her to this benefit,
- introduced her to Tony, she applied for the job.
- And it's Paula Silverstrom, when she got that job.
- So it really is, in many cases, who you know.
- And she did so much for that agency.
- It just warms my heart to think that I was a teeny bit
- instrumental in what happened from there.
- So I guess I have to say that it was almost a little domino
- effect of becoming more involved in the community.
- Because it was the network of people
- that I knew that targeted me, without me even knowing,
- in many ways, of what was going to be,
- even though I got to make the decisions, in many ways,
- they were there deep down inside giving me the strength
- to make those decisions.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So now talk to me a little bit about Tony Green.
- What was Tony--
- MAX REITER: Oh, my God.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Who was Tony and what was he like?
- MAX REITER: Wow.
- When I met Tony, he was married.
- His wife, at the time, grew up three roads away from mine.
- And Tony was selling insurance.
- And so Tony came to my house, and my partner
- and I sat down and talked with him about insurance.
- And at that time, I was in my twenties
- and could not be interested in insurance whatsoever.
- And Tony wasn't--
- I mean his heart wasn't in it either.
- But that was when I really got to know Tony.
- And after that, every time we saw each other,
- we just would hug and wish each other well,
- see where we were in our lives.
- And that was pretty much it.
- And at that time, Tony was working as the coat check boy
- and selling insurance during the night, or during the day.
- DONALD: How many years did you chair Dining for Dollars?
- MAX REITER: Everybody chaired one year.
- But I chaired one other time as a co-chair later on.
- DONALD: And how many people that were friends of yours
- did you bring into the organization to help out?
- Because I always hear so many of your friends--
- MAX REITER: Flo and Janine.
- I mean, being in my business, when people heard about it,
- they would want to be involved.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So now, talk a little bit about Paula.
- MAX REITER: Oh, my gosh.
- Paula is one of the most dedicated.
- She was working for, I'm pretty sure it was the American Heart
- Association at the time.
- And she needed motivation for another job.
- She was bigger than what they had to offer at her job.
- She needed to explode into what she became.
- And I met Paula because she was a dancer
- in a show at Blackfriars.
- And so that's how we became friends.
- Because I was on the board of Blackfriars at the time.
- And that's how it happened.
- So it's the organizations that you
- get involved with that you meet the people, or your work
- organization, and people touch you.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Do you have any sense of what attracted Paula
- to AIDS Rochester?
- MAX REITER: I think just that she was looking
- for something more challenging.
- And she went and applied.
- And when she got it, she just took off.
- And not that there weren't obstacles.
- But she-- you know, Paula's this,
- she was this little, slender, body of a dancer,
- and just very intelligent, very organized.
- And she rose to every challenge I think she ever had.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Certainly very gay friendly.
- MAX REITER: Oh, my God, yes.
- Absolutely.
- But she was a dancer.
- She was a hoofer and she was on stage with a lot of gay man.
- And I think the show that Paula did
- that I remembered was Evita.
- And it was the first show that I worked on for Blackfriars.
- And I think that was in '80, I want to say maybe '85 or '86.
- So do you know Paula?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- MAX REITER: OK.
- Have you interviewed her?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- MAX REITER: Oh, she would be good.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And we videotaped her.
- MAX REITER: Do you know Cheryl Martin Amati, or Cheryl Amati
- Martin?
- She would be a wonderful--
- She was at Larry Garney's that night.
- She was the photographer with the spiky hair.
- She would be fantastic to interview.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Cheryl Martin--
- MAX REITER: Amati, A-M-A-T-I. And I might even have her phone
- number.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now what's her connection in this whole thing?
- MAX REITER: Cheryl was a bartender
- for Dining for Dollars for many years.
- She was at Mother's.
- She was at women's bars.
- She knows, probably she could give you
- the history of women's bars in Rochester
- all the way back to the '60s.
- Because she's probably about four years older than I
- am, maybe, three.
- Don't tell her I said that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes, I know what she looks like.
- Because I met her.
- And as soon as you said the bartender, I remembered.
- DONALD: What are you planning to do with the interview?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, before I answer that question--
- DONALD: Go ahead.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I would like to say to you, Max,
- that your contribution to HPA and to this community
- goes far beyond your years of service.
- MAX REITER: Oh, that's sweet.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You have been supportive of many causes
- and you've been supportive of many, many people.
- And Shoulders is the story of many shoulders
- that people have not only had to lean on,
- had to have someone's arm around them, had to stand on,
- but also who have been authentic in their ability to be real
- and to be out and to be active and to not
- be afraid to be who they are.
- So I for one would like to thank you for your contribution.
- But also would like to say, life goes on.
- And you have many more years ahead of you.
- MAX REITER: Oh, I know.
- That's why we're doing fabulous forty.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- So thank you.
- MAX REITER: You're welcome.