Audio Interview, Max Reiter, February 7, 2013

  • EVELYN BAILEY: Today is February 7
  • and I'm sitting here with Max Ritter.
  • MAX REITER: Reiter.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Reiter, sorry, who
  • has been a member of the community
  • here in Rochester since 1963.
  • So Max, when you came to Rochester,
  • were you out, or were you--
  • MAX REITER: No.
  • I was in high school.
  • And I did not come out until--
  • now let me think--
  • I wasn't out when I was in college,
  • I went to Monroe Community College from '66, fall of '66
  • to spring of '68.
  • And during that time I went to one gay bar, which
  • was The Blue Chip.
  • And The Blue Chip was located on Brown Street--
  • there was a triangle--
  • and I want to say Brown and Allen, maybe.
  • And I can't think of the other intersection.
  • Might have been Maple.
  • Maple, Brown and Allen.
  • There was little triangle--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: It wouldn't have been Main?
  • MAX REITER: Nope.
  • No, it was set--
  • right now, when you get off 490 at Maple Street,
  • I think it's Maple, or is it Broad.
  • It might be Broad and--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, Broad comes around and goes north and south
  • between Main and Lyle.
  • MAX REITER: OK.
  • And that's the-- well, it was right there.
  • I'm trying to think of what that place was
  • across the street that isn't there now.
  • But where Maple Street ends--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: That's where The Blue Chip was?
  • MAX REITER: Opposite from Mount Hope, Mount Reed
  • is where this was.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And do you know who owned it?
  • MAX REITER: I don't.
  • I don't remember who owned it.
  • I just remember that it was my first experience there,
  • and being afraid that it was going to be raided
  • or you were going to be arrested.
  • But I went with straight friends of mine
  • from Monroe Community College, a girl that I went to high school
  • with.
  • And she was not gay, and two friends of hers that were women
  • but were not gay.
  • And I'm pretty sure another friend from high school,
  • his name was Henry.
  • And I think he was gay, but now I think
  • he's married and has kind of--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: How did you find out about The Blue Chip?
  • MAX REITER: From them, from these people.
  • Because I never even heard of it.
  • But I just remembered being there--
  • VOICE OF SERVER: (unintelligible)
  • MAX REITER: Thank you.
  • VOICE OF SERVER: (unintelligible)
  • MAX REITER: And there was terrific music at the time.
  • Everybody was on the dance floor.
  • It was inner city, just all inner city.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Was it mixed?
  • MAX REITER: It was mixed.
  • But I think it was more men.
  • I think it was more a men's bar.
  • But I also remember at that time visiting a bar
  • on either Clinton Avenue or--
  • I think it was Clinton, Clinton Avenue North--
  • and it was the first drag show that I ever saw.
  • And I don't remember the name of that bar,
  • but I remember that there was a--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: The Rathskeller?
  • MAX REITER: No.
  • Nope.
  • This was on North Clinton near Avenue D.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Was it on North Clinton?
  • OK.
  • Because what we can do is--
  • what I can do or a student can do
  • is go to the city directories and find the business
  • establishments on North Clinton at the time.
  • The city directories not only have names of people,
  • but they have names of businesses
  • broken into restaurants, entertainments, plumbing,
  • all of that stuff, plus they have the lists of streets
  • and the establishment on those streets,
  • if they were commercial.
  • They don't tell you, like if you went to Clover Street,
  • you're not going to find anything
  • on Clover Street between this number,
  • because it's all residential.
  • So you could conceivably, if there were businesses there,
  • you would be able to find out what businesses
  • were on Clover in 1968 or '67 or '66,
  • and then backtrack from that to the property records
  • to find out who owned them and when they got their liquor
  • license, et cetera, et cetera, who got the liquor license.
  • MAX REITER: So the headliner performer at this bar,
  • this neighborhood bar, was Misty Lynn.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Misty?
  • MAX REITER: Lynn.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: L-Y-N?
  • MAX REITER: Probably L-Y-N-N, maybe.
  • And that was the first drag show that I ever saw.
  • And that was in 1968, 67.
  • The fall of '66, '67.
  • And that was the same as The Blue Chip.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • Now when you were in college, do you
  • have any sense of what Rochester was like then?
  • I mean, was it--
  • Eastman Kodak was--
  • MAX REITER: Very big.
  • My mother worked for Eastman Kodak,
  • wanted me to work at Eastman Kodak, which I did for summers.
  • For three summers, I worked at Eastman Kodak
  • and realized that that was not where I
  • wanted to spend my life.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Was B&L, Bausch and Lomb--
  • MAX REITER: Yeah, B&L was around.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And Xerox, of course.
  • Were there sections of town that were identified by--
  • like in Boston, they have the red light district or where
  • you'll find go-go girls and prostitutes and that sort
  • of thing--
  • was there an area in Rochester that was--
  • MAX REITER: Probably downtown.
  • I remember-- and I'm sure other people will remember this,
  • too-- there was, I think a cross dresser that was
  • murdered in downtown Rochester.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Hotels?
  • MAX REITER: The hotels downtown were the Manger.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: M-A-N?
  • MAX REITER: G-E-R. The Cadillac Hotel.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do you remember where the Manger was?
  • MAX REITER: The Manger was on Main Street and Clinton Avenue.
  • And there was an arcade, Manger Arcade,
  • that led into Midtown Plaza.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now is that the same now?
  • Because there is an arcade, but that's on State Street now.
  • MAX REITER: Reynolds.
  • Reynolds Arcade.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But that's not--
  • MAX REITER: Not the same.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • MAX REITER: And in the Reynolds Arcade
  • used to be the Western Union office, where
  • you could go to send telegrams.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Was Front Street there at that time?
  • MAX REITER: Front Street was.
  • I remember shopping on Front Street.
  • And they had a great little men's shop called the Toggery,
  • T-O-G-G-E-R-Y, Toggery Shop.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: T-O-G--
  • MAX REITER: G-E-R-Y. T-O-G-G-E-R-Y.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: A number of people
  • have mentioned a men's shop on Front Street,
  • but I didn't have the name until--
  • MAX REITER: How about Beansy's?
  • Beansy's Bargain Basement was another place
  • that was, I'm pretty sure, on Front Street.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Beasy's Bargain--
  • MAX REITER: Beansy.
  • B-E-A-N-S-Y. They used to refer to it as Beansy's Bargain
  • Basement.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • And I know they were purveyors.
  • There were meat stores and grocery, fruit markets
  • and that sort of thing.
  • And then there was Ma Martin's, right?
  • MAX REITER: And you could not see the river from the street.
  • There were shops along Main Street
  • and there were shops along Front street.
  • So you never saw the river when you were on Main Street.
  • Where you saw the river was when you went to the Rundel Library.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • DONALD: I believe everything he says.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Hi.
  • MAX REITER: Hi, Donald.
  • DONALD: How are you?
  • MAX REITER: How are you?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: How are you?
  • DONALD: Good to see you.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Good to see you.
  • MAX REITER: Did you get out early?
  • DONALD: My last half hour did not--
  • or my last hour didn't book in.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So Toddery, Beansy's,
  • and the river, you couldn't see until you got to the library.
  • MAX REITER: And this was in '65, '63, '64.
  • And then they renovated downtown,
  • I think once Midtown Plaza started,
  • it caused a whole renovation in downtown.
  • And I think Midtown opened in 1963, I want to say.
  • And there's a great video on YouTube,
  • and I think it's called--
  • it's not called Mall of America, maybe Malls--
  • but if you look up Midtown Plaza on YouTube, there's a great,
  • I'm going to say five- to ten-minute video that came out.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: On the building of it.
  • Now I'm not from Rochester.
  • I didn't come to Rochester until 1976.
  • But what was at Midtown before?
  • Before they built Midtown, what was it?
  • MAX REITER: See, I'm not sure.
  • Because I came just after the mall opened.
  • So everything was gone.
  • But there was a street that they are re-introducing
  • with this new renovation since they've torn Midtown down.
  • They're going to re-do it the way it was,
  • from what I understand, before Midtown went up.
  • So these little streets that were there,
  • that ran from Main Street back to Chestnut Street.
  • I want to say Anderson Street, maybe it's called.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
  • MAX REITER: OK.
  • And then there was maybe another little street back in there.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But it was land.
  • It was not a part of the river or--
  • MAX REITER: Right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: It was land.
  • VOICE OF SERVER: Sir, do you think you need a--
  • Oh, OK.
  • MAX REITER: Thank you.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now do you remember--
  • VOICE OF SERVER: Do you want me to grab you one more tea, or--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --who was mayor then?
  • VOICE OF SERVER: OK.
  • MAX REITER: OK.
  • Let me see.
  • Stephen May was mayor in the early '70s.
  • And people suspected him of being gay.
  • And before that, there was Ryan-- no, Ryan was later.
  • Nope, Mayor Ryan, might have been Ryan.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Before Steve May?
  • MAX REITER: I think so.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But then Ryan was mayor afterwards.
  • MAX REITER: Oh, he was?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Ryan was mayor in 1980s, early '90s.
  • MAX REITER: Oh, OK.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Berry?
  • Mayor Berry?
  • MAX REITER: No, I don't remember that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Or Barry?
  • MAX REITER: No.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • No, I can look that up, too.
  • Can look that up.
  • So once you found The Blue Chip, did you expand your--
  • MAX REITER: No.
  • I went two years at Monroe Community College.
  • I probably only went to The Blue Chip twenty times.
  • And it wasn't a place where I would go alone.
  • I wasn't that confident at the time.
  • And it wasn't in an area of the city that was reached easily.
  • It wasn't on a bus line.
  • I didn't have a car.
  • So I had to rely on friends to go there with.
  • But it was, without disrespecting anybody,
  • like if you talk to the owner, it was a neighborhood bar,
  • it was like gay bars were back then, not clean.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Not many lights?
  • MAX REITER: More lights than you'd
  • expect, I remember being lit.
  • Didn't smell good.
  • I think they left the bathroom doors open a lot.
  • Nope, there weren't neon lights.
  • But people just, I remember the people that got up and danced,
  • they were more the flamboyant mean.
  • And I remember there being more African-American inhabitants.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Customers, clients.
  • MAX REITER: Customers, yeah, than not.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now from MCC, where did you--
  • did you stay in Rochester or did you--
  • MAX REITER: I went to the University of Hawaii.
  • So I was out of Rochester from the fall of '68
  • until the spring, until the summer of '71.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • And had it changed when you came back?
  • MAX REITER: I changed.
  • DONALD: Ask him what he studied.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You had changed.
  • MAX REITER: I had changed.
  • While I was Hawaii, I entered the seminary.
  • And I got a degree in psychology and philosophy,
  • and came back to Rochester because the Vietnam
  • War was still in progress.
  • And I had been taking my physical
  • and could have been drafted had the law for--
  • can't think of the word.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Conscientious.
  • MAX REITER: No.
  • When you, selective service, you go because you can be drafted.
  • And there was a lottery and they gave out numbers.
  • And my number was 125.
  • And in October of '71, the selective service law
  • was not renewed and the lottery system went away.
  • And after that, people signed up voluntarily,
  • and they were not--
  • I don't think the draft has ever been reinstated since then.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So conscription, or the requirement to serve,
  • was repealed in '71.
  • MAX REITER: Yep.
  • I think October of '71.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And so being in the service
  • became a voluntary act.
  • Was the Vietnam War still going on?
  • MAX REITER: Yes.
  • I'm pretty sure, yup, '71 it was still going on.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And so there were no longer a need
  • to be a conscientious objector.
  • MAX REITER: Correct.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: If you didn't want to serve,
  • you didn't have to serve.
  • MAX REITER: Right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • And from before you left to the time you came back,
  • I'm sure there were many changes probably in the city landscape,
  • in the city skyscrape, you know.
  • Midtown obviously was up and running and--
  • was there, B. Forman and McCurdy's were in Midtown,
  • and I think Scrantom's was in Midtown.
  • Lord and Taylor's?
  • MAX REITER: Record Theater.
  • MAX REITER: Nope, not Lord and Taylor.
  • Let me think.
  • Hershberg Jewelers.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And then of course, Sibley's
  • across the street.
  • MAX REITER: McFarlane's was a men's store.
  • The National Clothing store was downtown.
  • It was another high end clothing store.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So what did you do when you no longer had
  • to serve?
  • MAX REITER: Well, I came back and I
  • got a job with a Catholic school, in Irondequoit.
  • So I taught for five years.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: God bless you.
  • MAX REITER: Thank you.
  • For five years, I taught--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: At Bishop Kearney?
  • MAX REITER: Nope.
  • Right next to Bishop Kearney.
  • There's a little grammar school on Carter Street, St.
  • Josaphat's.
  • And that's where I taught.
  • And it wasn't for the Diocese of Rochester,
  • even though they were affiliated in some way.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Because they were Ukrainian.
  • MAX REITER: They were Ukrainian.
  • So I was there for five years.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: There are many smaller schools
  • like that in Rochester.
  • MAX REITER: I didn't know that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: On Ridge Road, there's that Byzantine church.
  • They have a school.
  • MAX REITER: That's the one.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: That's St. Josaphat?
  • MAX REITER: East Ridge Road.
  • That's St. Josaphat's.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Then there's Archangels
  • down on Winton, which is a private school.
  • There's Sisters of Mercy and so on and the Jesuits and so on.
  • But then there was a school on Prince Street,
  • the Madames of the Sacred Heart had a school on Prince Street.
  • Aura Academy is on East Avenue.
  • It's a very exclusive--
  • MAX REITER: Is it still there?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
  • Very exclusive.
  • Now Empire State, I think, has taken over some
  • of the school on Prince.
  • But there's a private school, Cornerstone School
  • or Cobblestone School.
  • MAX REITER: Cobblestone.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: On Prince.
  • So there are many independent educational institutions
  • for elementary, junior high and high school here in the city.
  • So after your stint of five years in a classroom-
  • MAX REITER: During my last year, I
  • studied cosmetology at night school and summer school.
  • And in '76, I passed my State Board exams
  • and started working at B. Forman Company
  • and teaching at the school, at Continental, part-time.
  • So I taught there for fifteen years, '76
  • to '91, at Continental part-time.
  • And I work at Forman's, B. Forman Company in Pittsford,
  • mainly in Pittsford, and have stayed in that area ever since.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And by then, you see, by '71, '72,
  • Stonewall had happened.
  • Were you aware of Stonewall?
  • MAX REITER: Not at all.
  • I didn't jump into the Rochester nightlife
  • until I was working, in probably 1972,
  • for Martina Theaters downtown.
  • There were three movie theaters.
  • There was the Studio 2, the Paramount, and in the Holiday
  • Inn at the time, which is now--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, I remember this, yeah.
  • MAX REITER: What is that hotel that's across
  • from the convention center?
  • DONALD: Crown Plaza?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Radisson?
  • DONALD: I thought it was Crown Plaza.
  • Oh, well.
  • MAX REITER: No, I think Crown Plaza's on State Street.
  • I think it's the Radisson.
  • That used to be the Holiday Inn.
  • And the little movie theater that was in there was called
  • the Holiday Cine, C-I-N-E. And I managed part-time those movie
  • theaters at night.
  • And I was teaching in a Catholic school during the day.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now let me ask you if you recall--
  • because I think it was at the Holiday Cine--
  • an action that was taken by a number of gay women.
  • They came, there was a porn film,
  • or a film derogatory to women.
  • MAX REITER: Cries and Whispers?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I don't remember what the name of it is.
  • But Karen Hagberg was involved.
  • And they came in and they--
  • DONALD: She's one of the gals that was interviewed, right?
  • She's one of the gals that was interviewed?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I think it was where
  • the Holiday Inn, Holiday Cine was, at the Holiday Inn area.
  • Because they were arrested.
  • They picketed and they protested.
  • And I think, not positive, they broke one of the windows.
  • MAX REITER: Well, there weren't very many windows.
  • I think there were two in the front.
  • It was a tiny little theater.
  • And it's probably the smallest movie theater I've ever seen.
  • If you compared it to one of the little theaters
  • at the Little Theater, probably the smallest.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah, it wasn't big.
  • MAX REITER: But I would love to know what movie it was.
  • Because I remembered Cries and Whispers,
  • it was an Ingmar Bergman movie.
  • It showed for a long time.
  • Lady Sings the Blues was there.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I can look it up in the EC.
  • Because the EC--
  • DONALD: That would be interesting--
  • documented it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah, would have documented it.
  • Because there were all kinds of actions being taken by women.
  • DONALD: And you said her name was Carol--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Karen Hagberg.
  • DONALD: Was she one of the ones that's in the trailer?
  • Yeah, I thought I recognized the name.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: She certainly doesn't
  • look like the Karen that went to Eastman.
  • Because in another picture, OK, in that same trailer,
  • there's a shot of three or four women sitting
  • at a table with Gay Liberation.
  • And she has pigtails.
  • DONALD: Well, I kept picking up on, OK,
  • here's the real person today.
  • And Because those pictures were from the past.
  • You could pick out who they were, sort of.
  • That was so well done.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Some of the other actions--
  • let me turn this off.
  • So Max, when did you become involved in gay activism,
  • or involved in gay issues?
  • Was it HPA?
  • MAX REITER: Probably when I first
  • stepped into Jim's on North Street in 1974,
  • probably 1974, three or four, and it was just
  • the place to be.
  • You couldn't take people away from there
  • cause it was so much fun.
  • And you could just dance and dance.
  • And I didn't hang out with drinkers.
  • Just that the group that I went with,
  • they weren't real, real big drinkers.
  • So we would go to Jim's, we would dance until 2 o'clock.
  • At 2 o'clock we'd get our coats.
  • We'd pass Pat, who was the bouncer, at the door.
  • We'd say goodbye to Tony Green and Ducky and Jim.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Was Tony a bartender there?
  • MAX REITER: Tony was a bartender.
  • And he was--
  • I first met Tony when he was the coat check boy.
  • And he would say things like, he'd sing, It's Liza with a Z,
  • not Lisa with an S. Or he'd sing the song.
  • And people would just roar.
  • We'd all laugh because he was such an entertainer.
  • And then I remember seeing a production
  • that they did at Jim's, I think there
  • were two nights that they, Sunday nights
  • maybe that they did it, and it was Boys in the Band.
  • And Tony Green was in it, Arthur Greenland, who's still around.
  • Tony isn't, but Arthur is.
  • And C.W. Davis was a man that was in it.
  • I don't think he lives in Rochester any longer.
  • But it was the first gay play that I ever saw,
  • and it was presented here in Rochester.
  • And I want to say that was 1970--
  • no, yeah, 1970, maybe three or four.
  • So there's probably advertisements
  • of the play in the EC.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: In the EC, right.
  • Yeah.
  • MAX REITER: But there was Jim's.
  • And until Jim's closed and everybody went to Friar's.
  • And in between, you would go to straight dance clubs, like 747.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do you remember where that was?
  • MAX REITER: 747 was on Scottsville Road.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • So not really in Rochester, just outside.
  • MAX REITER: Yeah, it was by the airport.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • MAX REITER: Oh, I take it back.
  • DONALD: It was out by Tully's.
  • MAX REITER: No, it wasn't.
  • The 747 was--
  • DONALD: I went there.
  • Years ago, though.
  • MAX REITER: It was on West Henrietta Road.
  • West Henrietta Road.
  • DONALD: It's the one that looked like an airplane.
  • MAX REITER: Yup.
  • And it's where Movies 10, around where Movies 10 is.
  • And then there was a place out in Chili,
  • a dance club out in Chili.
  • I can't remember the name of that one.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, you have to remember that
  • in '73-'74, the EC is only three, four years old.
  • And in '73, it left the University of Rochester campus
  • and became a publication of actually the Gay Brotherhood.
  • And then it became a publication of the Gay Alliance
  • when the Gay Brotherhood merged with the women
  • to form the Gay Alliance of the Genesee Valley.
  • MAX REITER: OK.
  • And what year was that?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: The incorporation was 1973, December, 1973.
  • So it was four, maybe four pages,
  • front, inside, inside, back.
  • And advertising back then wasn't certainly what it was today.
  • There might be a little rectangle
  • box with different print that announced something.
  • And I'm not sure it would have been as well known
  • or as advertised in as it is today.
  • DONALD: Or distributed.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But incidences, like raids
  • and those kinds of things, and certainly the movie theater
  • thing and Boys in the Band would have
  • been advertised in it, either in a calendar
  • or in a coming event.
  • DONALD: Are those older issued digitalized now?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes, they're all online.
  • DONALD: OK.
  • I wasn't sure how far back they went.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • The EC first issue was January, 1971.
  • MAX REITER: And can you pay to see those?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You don't have to pay to see them.
  • MAX REITER: Oh.
  • They're just available to members?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: No.
  • MAX REITER: Oh.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I'll send you the link to the U of R,
  • and you can search or you can browse.
  • And if you choose to browse, you have your choice of years.
  • And then within the years, you have your choice of months.
  • DONALD: We saw a little sample of that,
  • remember what Scott shared.
  • MAX REITER: Right.
  • But I didn't know how to get there.
  • I mean, I don't know--
  • DONALD: We'll need the link.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I'll send you the link.
  • DONALD: Because we went to our training for the--
  • MAX REITER: I was telling her.
  • (unintelligible)
  • DONALD: Fabulous.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Because that's where I came up
  • with all of those HPA pictures.
  • I looked online, then I went down to the basement
  • and found the actual copies of the EC,
  • got them copied in color or black and white.
  • Color really didn't come into advertising in the EC until--
  • MAX REITER: No, not until the--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: '80s, late '80s, early '90s.
  • Because it was, well, one, it was too expensive.
  • DONALD: It was expensive.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And two, the way the newspaper was put together,
  • it really, it wasn't, it was offset printing.
  • It was typeset.
  • And they didn't have colored ink.
  • Or if they had colored ink, it was extremely,
  • it was expensive to use.
  • So in 1974, '75, '74 was Boys in the Band.
  • And that was the first play, gay play, in Rochester.
  • MAX REITER: That I ever saw, that I can remember.
  • And I can't remember who directed it.
  • I should know.
  • DONALD: When did you start journaling?
  • MAX REITER: '77.
  • DONALD: Oh.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And was that your kind of entrance into--
  • MAX REITER: Jim's.
  • Going to Jim's.
  • And then afterwards we would go out to eat at Mama Tacones.
  • People would go and eat at Mama Tacones.
  • They'd go to Howard Johnson's.
  • They'd go to Howard Johnson's Twelve Corners.
  • They would go to The Royal Knight on East Avenue.
  • Somebody was just telling me they
  • remembered the drag queens walking down
  • East Avenue from the bars to go to Royal Night.
  • And I remember being in there having breakfast,
  • and they would come in and the local people would go crazy.
  • They would just go, you can imagine
  • in the '70s, when things were starting to get freer.
  • DONALD: What time of night would that be?
  • MAX REITER: After 2 o'clock So it would be 2:30, 3:00.
  • We'd stay there until--
  • DONALD: What are decent people doing up at that hour anyways?
  • MAX REITER: Oh, we were all decent.
  • Very hungry.
  • We were hungry and decent.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So when did you take the next step in terms
  • of actively becoming involved?
  • MAX REITER: Actively, with issues was after AIDS.
  • In 19-- I went on the board of HPA in 19, maybe '90, 1990,
  • I want to say.
  • And in 1994 was when I chaired Dining for Dollars.
  • And even though I say that I chaired it,
  • I felt that every committee was their own chair.
  • It was just such a tapestry of love and devotion
  • and dedication to this cause.
  • And people worked as long as they
  • did at their full-time jobs to make this come about.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What did you think, how did you feel when
  • you first heard about AIDS?
  • MAX REITER: I felt it was a conspiracy, at first.
  • I felt that gays were being targeted, that I could never
  • understand where somebody could say it was a gay disease.
  • And it infuriated me to think that people would
  • say that it was God's revenge.
  • Because coming from a mother who said that it didn't bother her
  • that I was gay, that she was more concerned that I was
  • happy and healthy and didn't hurt other people,
  • it was inconceivable for me to think
  • that any kind of superior God, I mean supreme being--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Would mete out--
  • MAX REITER: --would ever do that.
  • So it was more, I needed to know more about it,
  • and the more I found out about it
  • and the more it started affecting people
  • that I knew and loved, and didn't know
  • and still felt a commitment to and felt that they
  • were part of the community.
  • And probably going to the picnics,
  • to the gay picnics during the summers,
  • and meeting more people and then realizing
  • that more people were dying, I felt
  • that I needed to step forward.
  • And that's probably when I really
  • was more confident with my sexuality, with being open.
  • And it just came to be in 1994, when I was so totally involved
  • with Dining for Dollars.
  • And probably the biggest, most important thing
  • that I felt I've ever done was to help with that event
  • and to raise $125,000 after expenses,
  • and people gave so much in our community.
  • It profited for people, most people
  • that I never even knew, that the people that were on our board,
  • we volunteered, it was an all volunteer board,
  • nobody was paid, and there was $112,000
  • that went out into the community, distributed
  • between AIDS Rochester, Community Health Network
  • at that time, The Wish List Fund,
  • and some individual grants to people.
  • But it was just, every time I think of it,
  • it just warms my heart.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, certainly the time, it was well
  • after AIDS had taken hold.
  • But it was pretty much at the height of the epidemic.
  • MAX REITER: About ten--what is it-- ten, twelve years.
  • It was 1981.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, Bill Valenti recognized it in '81,
  • June of '81.
  • But that was one case of Kaposi.
  • And he really did not see another case for a good six
  • months to a year after that.
  • Because even though people had HIV,
  • it didn't begin to come out, blossom,
  • exhibit itself, for a year, sometimes two years.
  • And at that point, they were dealing with it
  • on individual basis and individual cases.
  • There was no real community response until 1984,
  • when Jackie Nunn was hired to be executive director of AIDS
  • Rochester and the hotline began at Gay Alliance.
  • And then she went to Liberty Pole Way.
  • Well, Tara's and then Liberty Pole Way.
  • And then in, I think it was in '85 or '86
  • that CHN, Community Hope Network, began.
  • Because Bill broke away from Strong
  • and wanted to do direct care.
  • He was in research.
  • And then from CHN it went to ACHN,
  • and then finally the merger a couple years ago between AIDS
  • Rochester and AIDS Care or AIDS, A Community Health Network.
  • So that all of those services were tied together
  • under one roof.
  • When you did Dining for Dollars in 1994,
  • and I'm asking because I don't clearly remember,
  • were ere treatments that were somewhat effective?
  • AZT, I think, was out.
  • MAX REITER: AZT.
  • AZT and numerous amounts of medications,
  • I'm pretty sure people were taking.
  • Another proud moment in my life was Tony Green
  • announced that they were looking for an executive director
  • for AIDS Rochester.
  • And there was going to be a fundraiser at Joe Bombazutto
  • and Tom Hackett's house.
  • And I told Tony that I had a friend and a customer who
  • was an executive director at another agency,
  • and she was interested in possibly looking at the job.
  • So I brought her to this benefit,
  • introduced her to Tony, she applied for the job.
  • And it's Paula Silverstrom, when she got that job.
  • So it really is, in many cases, who you know.
  • And she did so much for that agency.
  • It just warms my heart to think that I was a teeny bit
  • instrumental in what happened from there.
  • So I guess I have to say that it was almost a little domino
  • effect of becoming more involved in the community.
  • Because it was the network of people
  • that I knew that targeted me, without me even knowing,
  • in many ways, of what was going to be,
  • even though I got to make the decisions, in many ways,
  • they were there deep down inside giving me the strength
  • to make those decisions.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So now talk to me a little bit about Tony Green.
  • What was Tony--
  • MAX REITER: Oh, my God.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Who was Tony and what was he like?
  • MAX REITER: Wow.
  • When I met Tony, he was married.
  • His wife, at the time, grew up three roads away from mine.
  • And Tony was selling insurance.
  • And so Tony came to my house, and my partner
  • and I sat down and talked with him about insurance.
  • And at that time, I was in my twenties
  • and could not be interested in insurance whatsoever.
  • And Tony wasn't--
  • I mean his heart wasn't in it either.
  • But that was when I really got to know Tony.
  • And after that, every time we saw each other,
  • we just would hug and wish each other well,
  • see where we were in our lives.
  • And that was pretty much it.
  • And at that time, Tony was working as the coat check boy
  • and selling insurance during the night, or during the day.
  • DONALD: How many years did you chair Dining for Dollars?
  • MAX REITER: Everybody chaired one year.
  • But I chaired one other time as a co-chair later on.
  • DONALD: And how many people that were friends of yours
  • did you bring into the organization to help out?
  • Because I always hear so many of your friends--
  • MAX REITER: Flo and Janine.
  • I mean, being in my business, when people heard about it,
  • they would want to be involved.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So now, talk a little bit about Paula.
  • MAX REITER: Oh, my gosh.
  • Paula is one of the most dedicated.
  • She was working for, I'm pretty sure it was the American Heart
  • Association at the time.
  • And she needed motivation for another job.
  • She was bigger than what they had to offer at her job.
  • She needed to explode into what she became.
  • And I met Paula because she was a dancer
  • in a show at Blackfriars.
  • And so that's how we became friends.
  • Because I was on the board of Blackfriars at the time.
  • And that's how it happened.
  • So it's the organizations that you
  • get involved with that you meet the people, or your work
  • organization, and people touch you.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do you have any sense of what attracted Paula
  • to AIDS Rochester?
  • MAX REITER: I think just that she was looking
  • for something more challenging.
  • And she went and applied.
  • And when she got it, she just took off.
  • And not that there weren't obstacles.
  • But she-- you know, Paula's this,
  • she was this little, slender, body of a dancer,
  • and just very intelligent, very organized.
  • And she rose to every challenge I think she ever had.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Certainly very gay friendly.
  • MAX REITER: Oh, my God, yes.
  • Absolutely.
  • But she was a dancer.
  • She was a hoofer and she was on stage with a lot of gay man.
  • And I think the show that Paula did
  • that I remembered was Evita.
  • And it was the first show that I worked on for Blackfriars.
  • And I think that was in '80, I want to say maybe '85 or '86.
  • So do you know Paula?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
  • MAX REITER: OK.
  • Have you interviewed her?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
  • MAX REITER: Oh, she would be good.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And we videotaped her.
  • MAX REITER: Do you know Cheryl Martin Amati, or Cheryl Amati
  • Martin?
  • She would be a wonderful--
  • She was at Larry Garney's that night.
  • She was the photographer with the spiky hair.
  • She would be fantastic to interview.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Cheryl Martin--
  • MAX REITER: Amati, A-M-A-T-I. And I might even have her phone
  • number.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now what's her connection in this whole thing?
  • MAX REITER: Cheryl was a bartender
  • for Dining for Dollars for many years.
  • She was at Mother's.
  • She was at women's bars.
  • She knows, probably she could give you
  • the history of women's bars in Rochester
  • all the way back to the '60s.
  • Because she's probably about four years older than I
  • am, maybe, three.
  • Don't tell her I said that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes, I know what she looks like.
  • Because I met her.
  • And as soon as you said the bartender, I remembered.
  • DONALD: What are you planning to do with the interview?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, before I answer that question--
  • DONALD: Go ahead.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I would like to say to you, Max,
  • that your contribution to HPA and to this community
  • goes far beyond your years of service.
  • MAX REITER: Oh, that's sweet.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You have been supportive of many causes
  • and you've been supportive of many, many people.
  • And Shoulders is the story of many shoulders
  • that people have not only had to lean on,
  • had to have someone's arm around them, had to stand on,
  • but also who have been authentic in their ability to be real
  • and to be out and to be active and to not
  • be afraid to be who they are.
  • So I for one would like to thank you for your contribution.
  • But also would like to say, life goes on.
  • And you have many more years ahead of you.
  • MAX REITER: Oh, I know.
  • That's why we're doing fabulous forty.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • So thank you.
  • MAX REITER: You're welcome.