Audio Interview, Alan Davidson, June 1, 2012
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Auction.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Auction days.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: When we used to do auction on the air.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Oh dear god, a lot of fun.
- Fun, fun.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Alan--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I remember you and your crazy hat what was it?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: My hats?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah crazy-- or you had more than one right.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I still have and wear crazy hats.
- I'm the hat man.
- I was going to wear one of my crazy hat--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Every night during an auction
- he'd wear some crazy hat.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I still do that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Where you were born in Rochester?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I was born in Chicago,
- but I came to Rochester when I was six weeks old.
- I'm a twin to a sister.
- And I have remembrance of my mom,
- coming off the train in her fox coat, fur coat, with both of us
- in her arms.
- So yes, I am a Rochesterian.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So you grew up here?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Oh yeah.
- I only came here when I was six weeks old,
- so I don't remember Chicago very well.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- And when would that have been?
- I mean when were you born?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I was born in '36.
- I'm seventy-five happily young years old.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I can't believe it but yes I am.
- EVELYN BAILEY: When did you come out?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I came out in the late 70s.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Really?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did you know before?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: No that's another story.
- We could do a story on this if you're interested,
- Kevin, someday.
- But in the Reader's Digest version,
- I was married for twelve and a half years.
- Wonderful, wonderful marriage.
- Straight as an arrow.
- Did the typical suburbanites things.
- Had a great marriage.
- Fortunately, I have a wonderful eight and a half year old,
- I had an eight a half year old daughter.
- But my wife died, when she was thirty-two years old,
- from cancer.
- And when she died it took me a little time
- to get myself organized.
- People told me that I have to keep going
- and I realized I had to keep going because of my daughter.
- And I'm a Jewish boy, and there was a group forming
- at the JCC called Our Gang.
- And this was for singles, and divorcees, and separations,
- and anybody single.
- So they asked me if I would come to a meeting,
- and I came to a meeting.
- The second time that I came, I was elected
- president of the organization.
- It was a brand new kind of thing,
- I got involved with that.
- Just giving you a--
- And then I started dating again.
- But, a strange thing was happening, as I was dating.
- This is talking about like mid- 70s then.
- and I didn't really enjoy it for several reasons.
- Number one, I felt very pressured.
- All I was looking for was companionship, adult
- companionship.
- And the women that I were taking out--
- and I enjoyed their company-- did want two things from me.
- One they wanted to get married, and I wasn't looking for that.
- Or they just wanted to have sex, and I wasn't looking for that.
- I was a buyer for McCurdy's at that time.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Oh wow.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So they wanted three things, clothes.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Pardon me?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So they wanted three things really.
- Clothes.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yeah, that's true.
- So I took myself, my wife and I would drive by Jim's, and we
- would always say, oh look at the queers.
- You know that day queer was very wrong that was a bad word,
- today it's a great word.
- And we would say, look at the queers,
- and we would make fun of them.
- And then for some reason, and I don't know why,
- and that I can't answer, I took myself to Jim's.
- And Lo and behold, when I walked in there,
- I saw at least eight people that I knew, quite well.
- I'm going to throw out names, but we won't use names.
- Just to give you the background here.
- Joe--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Joe.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Joe and Tom, from Edwards.
- Joe was a salesman of mine, and that's how I knew him.
- And Richard Mancini, decorator.
- A couple other people that worked in the store.
- And they said, what are you doing here?
- I said, I don't know, and I started talking and meeting
- a few more people.
- A couple of weeks went by and I got a call from Joe
- and said he was having a dinner party,
- and would I like to go over there and join him?
- And Lo and behold I did.
- And I walked in and there were twelve men
- around a dinner table.
- I thought it was a little strange, but I sat down.
- By the time the evening ended, I felt very, very comfortable
- in the situation.
- And a couple of weeks later, I got a call
- from one of the gentlemen that was at the dinner party,
- and asked me if I wanted to go out to the movies
- and go to dinner.
- And I said yes, and I did.
- And I went to Jim's, after dinner, with him.
- And had a wonderful time.
- Let my hair down.
- Thank god I wasn't promiscuous.
- At that stage I wasn't interested in promiscuity,
- or sex I should say.
- I just wanted to be with adults, and get myself going again.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What year are we talking?
- What year?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: What year?
- We're in about '77 '78.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK
- ALAN DAVIDSON: And I really liked it very, very much.
- So about six months I did this scene.
- And then I said to myself you know,
- is this what I really wanted?
- So I decided to go back dating again, females.
- And sure enough the same thing did happen,
- I was perhaps even more turned off.
- And I just wasn't comfortable with the situation.
- So I went back to Jim's.
- And met more and more people, and became very involved
- in the community.
- And then I don't know if this is what you want to hear,
- but OK I'm trying to give you my chronological.
- Then late 70s, I'll have to give a shout out
- to miss Anita Bryant.
- This starts my gay life.
- Thank you Anita, for letting me see how ignorant and how stupid
- and how uneducated people are on homosexuality.
- Because if you recall she came out,
- and she was very flamboyant about homos
- being bad people, not good citizens,
- and it just got to me.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Save the children.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Exactly, so I said to myself,
- you know this is terrible, to have this woman say this
- when I'm really one of these people
- that she's talking about now.
- So I called a couple of my straight friends,
- and I called a couple of my gay friends.
- And I said, hey you want to do something and get together
- and see if we can maybe get people educated
- on what homosexuality is about?
- Or what discrimination is about, I'll
- use that word but better off, because that was the term.
- And we formed an organization called Coalition for Change.
- I don't know whether this is in your records or not,
- but it was Allen Copenhagen, Craig Nuo, Patti Evans,
- I mentioned Patti's name, myself, can't remember some
- of the other people, I'm sorry.
- But we formed this organization Coalition for Change.
- And this basically was an organization
- to just let people know that there's people out there that
- are gay, and that they have certain rights,
- and they have certain feelings, just like normal human beings.
- And one of the biggest things we did,
- which was a tremendous success--
- and I really felt rather than just going to Jim's and having
- a good time--
- I wanted to really do something besides just being a party
- animal and having fun.
- I thought that this was important to do it
- at this time.
- We had a rally downtown.
- In Crossroads Park.
- And the name Leonard Matlovich, I
- don't know that means anything, might not mean anything
- to Kevin, but let me tell you Leonard Matlovich,
- was the very first military officer
- to come out as a gay individual.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: And I said to the group
- I said, you know wouldn't this be great to have Leonard
- come speak to us at our rally?
- They said oh you'll never get him.
- At this time he was very popular in the news.
- And I said, well you know lets--
- I'm going to try it.
- So I wrote him a letter, and I got an answer back from him.
- And he said yes he would come.
- And he came to our rally and we publicized it very well.
- One of our adversaries was the name of Mancuso.
- I don't remember his--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Michael.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Michael, thank you.
- Michael Mancuso, who was our if you
- wanted to have the right corner and the left corner,
- we were both in different corners if you know.
- He had his group.
- We had our group.
- And he was there protesting when we
- had Leonard Matlovich. there.
- And we had hundreds, and hundreds of people
- attend this rally.
- It was just one of the most, first,
- I would say demonstrations.
- Or rally, rally would be a better word--
- to be held in Rochester, New York,
- and it was a very successful rally.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now I want to stop you for a minute,
- because I have done some research on this.
- That rally was in opposition to Anita Bryant
- coming to Rochester.
- Is that correct?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: No, it wasn't in--
- I don't believe that she had plans to,
- you know what, now that you mention it--
- EVELYN BAILEY: She was to perform at the Dome Arena.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: You know what?
- You are right.
- EVELYN BAILEY: In Henrietta.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: That is, yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Al, you can have some water if you want.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yup.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The Empty Closet, records that.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Uh-huh, uh-huh.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But one of my archival consultants
- went out to the Dome Arena.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: They don't have any record of her ever
- saying she was coming.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: But yes what you're telling me
- is true, because I do now remember that.
- That was one of the reasons that we
- were going to have the rally.
- Whether she came or not--
- my memory--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: The easy answer to that
- is, it maybe never got to the stage
- of an actual contract signed.
- If there's already opposition for her coming here,
- maybe their people went, OK we're not going to Rochester.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Possibly.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So that's why there'd be no record of it.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I don't know, but you are so, so right
- by refreshing my memory.
- I don't remember everything.
- But this rally, I know, I can just see it right now.
- And this Leonard Matlovich, was such a gentleman.
- I mean he stood up for his rights, you know?
- And this was a big thing back then because this was--
- EVELYN BAILEY: There were close to 1,000 people.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yes absolutely, you do remember.
- You remember that?
- EVELYN BAILEY: I've read.
- I wasn't there.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Oh you read, you weren't,
- you couldn't of been there, no.
- OK you read.
- Oh OK, OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: In The Empty Closet,
- you see forty years are online now
- at the University of Rochester.
- You can access them.
- But in preparing for this documentary,
- and preparing to write the history.
- These are the incidents' that the community responded
- to, in such a way that it was extraordinary.
- The DNC even had an article about it.
- Which the Democrat and Chronicle,
- did not usually report on gay activity or--
- ALAN DAVIDSON: That is correct.
- So that was very successful.
- And what happened to the group I'm
- not quite sure how we ended.
- But the next step with me, which was shortly after that,
- was that Rochester, New York believe it or not
- was the first city to want to put in law
- an anti-discrimination law.
- Which was anti-discrimination against homosexuals
- in housing, education, schooling, jobs,
- anything that had the same rights as quote
- "the straight community."
- This had to go to city council.
- So once again, we had a little group
- that went to city council.
- Now this you will find believe it or not,
- because I remember this picture, in the Democrat and Chronicle
- of me speaking to city council and telling them
- why they should pass this law.
- After several debates, and that several meetings,
- this law became--
- this act, became a law in Rochester, New York.
- Rochester, New York was one of the very first cities
- in the country, not just the state but the country to pass
- an anti-discrimination law--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Protecting.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Protecting our rights.
- And this was--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Is this under Ryan?
- Mayor Ryan?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Mayor Ryan.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Or was it Johnson already?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Oh no--
- EVELYN BAILEY: It was Ryan.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: It was Ryan, it wasn't Johnson.
- No, no this is-- you're talking once again, early 80s so
- to speak.
- But we were, are you aware of this?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: That we were one of the first cities--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: One of the first yeah.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: One of the first cities to have this law.
- Thanks to, I think, our efforts of being forceful and being
- forthright and coming forward.
- So that was a tremendous thing.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall the opposition to that?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: It was still Mancuso believe it or not.
- Oh yeah, definitely I remember him.
- He hung in there.
- I got to give him credit for that.
- He hung in there, but he very rarely won the battles.
- We won the wars.
- Maybe he won a few battles, but we won the wars.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I wonder if I'm related
- because I have a lot of Mancuso's that are cousins.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I don't know.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Were you involved at all
- or do you recall the CETA funding?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Mm-hm.
- Mm-hm.
- I wasn't involved in any of that, but I do recall that.
- Mm-hm.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And that was in the late 70s.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: That is correct.
- That is correct.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So we have Anita Bryant coming.
- we have the CETA funding.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Correct.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I think out of that came
- the anti-discrimination laws--
- ALAN DAVIDSON: You are absolutely
- correct in your chronological--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Was Charlie Schiano still on city council?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yes Charlie Schiano Someone
- that still is, what is his name?
- I just love him, but I can't think of who-- he just
- was in the news recently too.
- Who was it?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Still on city council?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: No, not on council
- anymore, but still active.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Paul Haney.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yes, thank you.
- Thank you.
- Thank you.
- Thank you.
- Yup, oh Yeah that's how I got to know Paul.
- Through city council as a matter of fact.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah yeah, he's been around a long time.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Then--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Was he an advocate or?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Oh he was on council,
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, but--
- EVELYN BAILEY: He was an advocate.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: He was an advocate.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: For us?
- OK.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yeah, but he also had to be very, very--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Discreet.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Discreet in being an advocate,
- but everybody knew he was an advocate at least our side knew
- he was an advocate.
- People from the other side knew he
- was but they didn't really pronounce it some
- what, you know what I mean?
- EVELYN BAILEY: He was closeted.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yeah, yeah.
- But in our side, very, very helpful.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- Now I want to go back just a little
- Alan, when you were invited to Joe and Tom's house,
- On would you say or do you recall at that time
- that most of the socializing that happened in the community,
- if you weren't at the bars there were these small parties?
- There were these social gatherings at people's homes,
- and they were usually professional businessmen--
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Absolutely.
- But not prior to going to Joe and Tom's home.
- I had no idea that there was such a thing as that.
- After going to Joe and Tom's home for dinner,
- and being invited in that group, I
- found that to be very prevalent.
- As a matter of fact, I know this--
- I'm going to say it, might sound strange--
- but sex was not the concern or the interest
- of most of my friends to be honest with you.
- It was more of a camaraderie, bonding, male companionship,
- kind of thing.
- Does that make sense to you?
- At that stage, you know at least in the group that I was with.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Were you still working at this time?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yes, oh sir, I was the buyer
- for McCurdy's and a buyer for Foreman's.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK so after the anti-discrimination battle--
- ALAN DAVIDSON: OK.
- Then we come to the next step in my activism
- if you want to call it such.
- I have a very good friend by the name
- of Don Scillaia who went to New York City to become a doctor.
- And he called me one day-- we're talking about like '81 '82--
- and called me and said Alan, have you heard about AIDS.
- And I said to him, I remember distinctly, I said AIDS?
- You mean that diet pill that everybody is taking now?
- That's what I said to him.
- He said no.
- In New York City, we have a disease--
- did he say disease, I'm not sure exactly the word--
- disease that has hit the gay community.
- And it's called AIDS.
- I said what are you talking about?
- And then he went on the phone to tell me some of the details.
- And he said I'm coming to Rochester next week,
- and I'd like to get together with you
- and talk to you about it.
- So I said, sure.
- You know I said it sounds rather interesting.
- So I called Sue Cowell who Sue and I knew each other from,
- just from the community per se.
- And I called her and I told her--
- because she was a friend of Don's also--
- I said, well Don told me about this AIDS thing
- in New York City.
- And he's coming in to talk to me about it.
- Do you think you would like to partake in our conversation?
- Because she was a nurse at that time.
- And she said, oh my god, yeah why don't you guys come over
- to the house and we'll talk about it
- and have a little snack or something.
- I said fine.
- So we arranged a meeting on Sue's porch.
- The three of us.
- And we talked about AIDS.
- And Sue and I decided--
- Don was in New York City, that's where he lived--
- that we would try to do something, to maybe--
- I meant, at that time, it was strictly
- like an educational kind of thing because she was a nurse,
- but I certainly didn't have any medical things.
- But if we could educate people what was
- happening around the country.
- And it looked like, from what he said it was not only going
- to be a New York City, but it was spreading
- throughout the country.
- And that's our concern was.
- So she and I got together with oh I'd
- say about eight people roughly.
- And we talked about it.
- And what we would have to do to actually form
- a legitimate organization.
- And get in touch with New York state
- and get bonded and funding, because that's
- what we would need to do.
- We took the ball and we did that.
- And we met at people's homes as we started.
- And we grew and then we met in top of Tara's.
- They had a room upstairs.
- And that became sort of our headquarters.
- And we did it in a way that basically our thrust
- was education and telling the public what
- it was about, and also from a medical standpoint
- that if people needed help medically because they
- got sick, what we could do.
- So I'll take credit for this I organized the very first AIDS
- benefit at Friar's Inn on Monroe Avenue,
- to raise money for the event--
- or for the purpose of helping out the community.
- And it was very successful.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you remember which year?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Believe it was like '82 '83 roughly.
- And once again, you should find this in the archives you know?
- EVELYN BAILEY: The EC, yes.
- Now what I wanted, '82 '83--
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Right.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You really didn't begin the hot-line
- though until a little later.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Oh absolutely not till later.
- These were just little ad hoc kind of little things
- that we were doing.
- But once again that came shortly afterwards.
- Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
- So the first AIDS benefit was at Friar's.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Mm-hm, mm-hm.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And was--
- who was involved at Friar's.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Friar's.
- Jesse Vulu who was very, very instrumental in a lot of AIDS
- work.
- And unfortunately, I don't know how--
- I trust you people use discreetly certain things
- and things are checked.
- He was the very first person that died of AIDS,
- and was a very good friend of mine, in Rochester, New York.
- The very, very first one, he didn't even
- know that he had AIDS.
- At that time the disease was so, so strange
- that people didn't realize that they had this.
- Because the symptoms were the diarrhea, and vomiting,
- and losing weight.
- I mean I can see him now, in the hospital, and it's rough.
- But anyway so he was the very first person,
- but he was very, very big on doing things.
- And one of the very first things that we did, was we
- formed our first AIDS walk.
- And that was like lets see, I guess it was '82 '83.
- You'd have to double check the date to be sure.
- I can't really give you the exact--
- EVELYN BAILEY: I think it was '82.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: '82 '83 was the very first day's walk
- and I'm going to brag again that--
- I have this at home to show you--
- that I raised the most money as the number one
- person getting the most donations for this walk.
- And as you well know, this walk just built, and built,
- and built, and built, and built. And became a very, very
- successful tool, that all--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: There's another one this weekend I think right?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: That all these organizations, around
- the whole country now do AIDS walk.
- I'm not saying that we were the first AIDS walk
- but we were the first--
- that's when we started our AIDS walk so it's been going on
- for umpteen years.
- The AIDS thing, since we're on the AIDS,
- like I was saying to RJ too that it
- was tooth and nail to fight to get money from New York State.
- It was really Jackie Nunn, who I think you all know that name.
- She was very helpful in doing this AIDS thing too.
- Grant writing and everything you had to do it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I didn't have that expertise,
- so I wasn't involved in writing the grants.
- But we're talking about how to raise money,
- for not only education, but from the medical standpoint of it.
- And Bill Valenti just to throw out names.
- Which I'm sure this is a little bit in the future.
- But I think through our efforts at the very beginning
- stages certainly was the tip of the iceberg for people
- to go forward and go forward and go forward.
- But because it became not just a little tiny organization,
- but grew so fast and so big rapidly,
- that it was really out of control almost.
- So we needed really the professional end of it.
- We were just all layman in this.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right
- ALAN DAVIDSON: And that's how AIDS Rochester came about.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The hot-line I think came in around '83.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: About '83 I would say.
- Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And then AIDS Rochester itself formed.
- And you went to Tara's.
- You have an office--
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yes that's is correct.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --upstairs in Tara's.
- Talk to me a little bit about Buddy Wegman.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Buddy was extremely generous and kind
- in everything that he did.
- He once again got behind the organization by doing benefits,
- by having dances that would raise money
- that money would go to AIDS.
- He was a very giving kind of guy really.
- Let us use his facility.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And after Tara's, you moved around the corner,
- on Liberty Pole Way right?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: No, after Tara's, believe it or not then we--
- where did we go?
- It wasn't University Avenue either.
- I mean it wasn't--
- where East Rochester was.
- Where else did it go?
- EVELYN BAILEY: I think it was on, around Chestnut Street?
- No.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Wasn't it at the Sears building at one time?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Oh, thank you.
- It was at the Sears building.
- But I don't think it went to those from Tara's, it
- went someplace else.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Before it went to Sears, yeah.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: And then was--
- EVELYN BAILEY: It was down by Varga printing.
- Varga printing was on--
- if you come out of--
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Was it on Liberty Pole Way?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Harro East?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Harro East.
- No, we didn't go to Harro East.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But it was across from Harro East, I think.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: That was Tara's.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Then--
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I can't think of where we--
- EVELYN BAILEY: I think it was near Varga printing, which
- was on Gibb's Street--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Over a little cross the way on Chestnut.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Chestnut.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I don't know.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You had a storefront, I think,
- on Chestnut Street.
- It was a hole- in- the- wall office.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: You know what?
- I just have a mental--
- I don't know.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And Jackie Nunn became executive director.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: That is correct.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And were you on the board?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yeah.
- I was still active and not as active as I used to be,
- but I still was active on it.
- Tim Tompkins, too got involved, at that time.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And then it went to Sears.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Ellingwood, what's his name?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Mark.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Mark Ellingwood, became involved.
- I'm thinking of just key people that were--
- but I don't remember that location.
- But I do remember eventually going to Sears,
- and then eventually going to--
- EVELYN BAILEY: University.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Behind Wegman's.
- What's that, University?
- Yeah and that's--
- EVELYN BAILEY: On the corner where the V--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: University and Blossom.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Blossom.
- Yeah.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: And I did think of something else
- that I left off, but I wanted to just finish, and then
- go to another thing too.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Should I jumped to my other thing?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Sure.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Oh we got to talk about the gay picnic.
- Because, that was one of the fun things that I did.
- I was known as the raffle man.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I had all these raffle tickets.
- And I would take them my around my neck.
- Hundreds and hundreds of tickets I'm sure you remember.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I remember.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: And I would go around,
- and of course we had the community donate prizes.
- We didn't pay for them.
- And then we raffle them off.
- But people would see me and they say
- oh here comes that raffle man, or here comes that pest.
- But I was sort of a nice pest, because I
- wouldn't leave until everybody bought a ticket.
- Believe it or not it did work, because I
- remember raising hundreds and hundreds of dollars
- just in the raffle.
- And that raffle money of course, went 100 percent to the GAGV.
- Which was really good.
- That time I became president of the GAGV.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What year was that?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Oh my god.
- You're going to have to help me.
- Probably the late 80s.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes, It was after Jackie Nunn,
- had been president.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I think it was right after Jackie
- as a matter of fact.
- If I'm not mistaken.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So '86 '87.
- I have a list.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yeah, you'll have to get the exact date.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And at that time we're at the Genesee co-op.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Oh yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Up in the sunken room.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: That's exactly where we met.
- Yeah
- EVELYN BAILEY: And The Empty Closet was--
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Right next door.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --right next door and you
- came in along the long alley.
- By the side of the house--
- by the side of the firehouse and out the back.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Now I remember those.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Was Susan Plunkitt, Jazzberry downstairs
- at that time?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: No, No but eventually it was.
- Memories, oh my god.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And then was Horace Lethbridge president
- after you?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: He was after me.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah, yeah.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yep.
- God, you're good.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So, talk to us about being
- president at the GAGV, what was going on at that time?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: OK, at that time, we
- were making strides in a lot of the things
- that we tried earlier.
- You know when I mentioned of the anti-discrimination thing.
- And it really wasn't so much negativism.
- I think we were gaining some, I know
- we were gaining some strength and some people were
- listening to us and it wasn't as when I was there.
- And this is-- this might sound strange,
- but the late 80s, early 90s, it was
- becoming to become more spoken about not looked down upon.
- I think because of basically our positive attitude on things.
- We weren't looking to take the world by storm,
- we just knew it was going to be a slow, slow kind of thing.
- And we're just looking for equal rights you know?
- And that's what it basically boiled down to then.
- We sort of needed--
- I hate to say it-- but we sort of
- needed another Anita Bryant to shake our boots
- a little bit because my era was a little bit
- calm compared to other eras.
- And I think one of the things that gets people going
- is when you have adversaries against you.
- And during that time, it was just sort of low keyed
- and we were just plotting in our own little thing.
- And just doing our own thing it--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well you eventually got Gingrich,
- and Limbaugh, and all them.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yeah
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yeah so it was just--
- EVELYN BAILEY: And AIDS was still the focus?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Oh AIDS was still prevalent, absolutely.
- But AIDS was being the forefront and still being talked about
- and still being a concern and still
- was not anywhere near the success that it is today.
- But it was still there, but it wasn't being in the GAGV,
- not that I'd switched my allegiance or priority,
- but my priority went to the GAGV rather than to AIDS.
- Because I felt that--
- sometimes it's also good to have other people's other views
- to do things.
- I mean I think at that time, I was
- sort of getting burnt out to be honest with you.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And HPA began.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: And HPA began, that's right.
- Helping people with AIDS.
- EVELYN BAILEY: In '86.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yup, yup.
- But to answer your question directly,
- it just was sort of a lull before all the storms of quote,
- "gay marriage," that was probably the next--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Family values.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Family values, thank you, yes.
- But I could never regret or forget the memories I had
- and the wonderful times I had.
- And I'm not tooting my horn, but I
- think because of my efforts and efforts
- like myself and other people, not just me, that we are very
- strong Rochester, New York.
- Because of us, I'm just saying that I
- think we had a very, very, very strong group of people working
- on the rights issue.
- And that's basically what it was.
- It was still the human rights and discrimination,
- and that's what that main thing was.
- But I think we did well.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Can you share a little bit with us
- about the actual working of the Alliance at the time.
- Was there a youth group?
- Was there a coffee house?
- Was there a--
- ALAN DAVIDSON: We had, yes, to answer
- your questions at that time we did have a coffee house.
- And we had movies.
- We had once a week, if people just wanted to come,
- there was a certain get off your chest week or day.
- I forget a Monday or Tuesday or whatever it was.
- We started a youth group at that time.
- It wasn't very active.
- But it was just starting the youth group.
- Because we did find that that was one of the concerns
- that we were concerned with.
- When I say there was nothing to be concerned about,
- that was one of the main things that we found.
- That the youth was really being stepped on.
- I mean here it is bullying, and that still hasn't changed
- you know as we all know.
- But yeah back then it was still, maybe
- it wasn't called bullying, but there was definitely
- a need for the youth.
- And that was one of our focuses that we did do.
- Just try to think what else we did.
- We did have activities where people would play cards.
- We had a card night.
- It really wasn't that well attended none of the activities
- were really well attended then.
- I think we were just starting to try to get people involved.
- And it was an uphill battle, whether they didn't want
- to come out, or be out publicly, or they just didn't--
- we just couldn't get things really started to well.
- I'll admit that.
- It was a struggle, a real struggle.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Was there a gay pride parade by this time yet?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: We had no parade and we
- didn't have any of the cultural event afterwards.
- It was just a picnic we did have the picnic every year.
- The picnic was always there and the picnic
- kept growing and growing and growing.
- That was very successful.
- Extremely successful.
- Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall, during your presidency,
- or during the time you you're involved
- with the Gay Alliance, the police
- liaison with the gay community?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I certainly do, his name was--
- very great, great guy.
- Do you know his name?
- Walker?
- No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Gordon Urlacher?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Urlacher, thank you.
- Gordon Urlacher.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So it was still Urlacher?
- OK.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Gordon Urlacher.
- Extremely, extremely important.
- Because at that time, when I was president of the Alliance,
- I did my retailing stuff.
- And then I went into the bar business.
- And I opened up The Liberty.
- Which was one of the first really--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I didn't know that your bar.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yeah.
- That was my bar.
- You remember The Liberty?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: It was my first, no it was not first gay bar
- that I went into.
- Rosie's was the first gay bar I went into.
- I think Liberty was the second.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: OK, we open up The Liberty.
- And in a way I sort of wanted to give back also something
- to the community from just being in the gay movement
- and everything I figured that was a good way to do it.
- So Tim and I opened up The Liberty.
- And we're very successful bar.
- It was great, we picked the name,
- and we had a Statue of Liberty right in the middle of the bar.
- And stood for liberty and it was really very successful.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: She used to guard our drinks.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Used to what?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: She used to guard our drinks.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: That's right.
- And then after The Liberty, we opened up Heaven.
- Which wasn't quote, " a gay bar,"
- but it was a bar for everybody.
- Certainly it was known as the Cadillac of bars.
- And I don't think there'll ever be another bar like Heaven
- ever, in Rochester.
- I know there won't be.
- We were the first to have the laser light show.
- And the first to have the state of the art music and all
- that other good stuff.
- And had some good times--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What year was that?
- Like '89 or '90?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: '90, '91, '92.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, because that's when I met you.
- I didn't start at that society until the 90s.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: OK early 90s?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But I remember you, owning Heaven.
- I remember you, oh yeah, that guy from XXI owns the bar.
- So yeah it had to be early 90s right?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yeah, and those were good days.
- The bar business was a lot different then.
- There was less laws from New York state, the DWI,
- underage drinking, it was a whole different ball of wax.
- I would never want to own a bar today.
- Just too many regulations, and rules, and all that money.
- What have you.
- but so that was another thing that--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now I think it was it
- Tim and Mark Seawick who opened up the Pentagon?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Mark Seawick and Tim, yeah.
- Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: After Heaven.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Or at the same time?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: No, the Pentagon came later.
- Well it was after Heaven, but I don't think
- it was right after Heaven.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I don't remember the Pentagon.
- I don't even remember the Pentagon.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yeah, that was quickly lived.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Was it in the same location?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: No, no it was on St. Paul street.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Down the street.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Don't even remember it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now did you sell The Liberty to Marcella?
- No.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: No, Marcella's is down the street from the--
- across the street from The Liberty.
- At the corner.
- No, Marcella's is completely separate.
- But I did work at Marcella's, but I basically
- stepped out of the bars.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well let me step in there,
- if my remembrance is correct.
- I remember, there was Liberty and then there was Idle's.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Idle's, was very big, but Id--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Didn't you guys like switch locations
- at one point?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Absolutely correct.
- You're absolutely correct.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And then that's where Marcella's went
- into where Liberty was?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Where Liberty was the second time.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: The second time.
- Yeah something like that.
- Because they switched locations--
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Confusing people all the way.
- But you know that was the secret about the bar business,
- you get in you make your killing for two years, and whatever.
- And then you have to switch your name, or switch your locale,
- or to switch to something--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Do something different.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: So that was it but yeah, good for you.
- Yeah, Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- Wow.
- I remember the Pentagon.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yeah, that Pentagon
- was sort of not too good.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Didn't last long, very short lived.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Above Idle's wasn't there a lesbian bar?
- The Egg?
- Something like The Egg, or there was something above Idle's.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Oh you mean original Idle's?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yes, Scrap.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Scrap.
- Where the hell did I get Egg from?
- EVELYN BAILEY: What was Scrap?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Scrap was it just above--
- Scrap was just another--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Bar.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Bar.
- Idle's was pretty much alternative.
- And there was a certain group of people
- that was the alternative new age music so to speak.
- And Scrap was just, if someone didn't like that kind of music.
- So it gave them another kind of music kind of thing.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I remember something
- about a lot of women used to go upstairs.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: OK there was a lesbian bar,
- and then it went to--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I wanna say it was called The Egg.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Egg, there was a bar called The Egg
- and you're right.
- Yes, but that was another that was another change.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But very short lived.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yup very, very short
- lived Yup, Yup you're absolutely correct.
- I mean when you look at really the bar scene
- today, to be honest with you Rochester,
- I mean we were up in the Cadillacs when I was there.
- But oh my god it's just there's no place, absolutely not
- and I don't go to the bars anymore anyway.
- So but I'm just saying I don't know
- where these kids or people go.
- Where do you go?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: We don't.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: You don't.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The young, young kids go to Tilt.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Tilt, yeah.
- Very young.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But not a lot of them a very select few.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: No the bar business certainly
- is not what it used to be.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: A lot of them are kind of just
- hanging out in the East End, mixing
- with just the regular bars.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now Alan, I did not know--
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I know we jumped around a lot but go on.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I said, I know we jumped around a lot.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That's all right.
- I didn't know, that your heritage was Jewish.
- Did that layer another level of difficulty in your life?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I'll say it, the Jewish guilt.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: To be honest with you, no I was a good Jewish boy
- and I observe the religion, and holidays, et cetera like that.
- But no I didn't think anything that oh
- because we were taught that being gay or homosexual
- was bad.
- No, to me it didn't.
- It didn't lay any kind of guilt on me.
- No, that had really nothing to do with it.
- I mean, that did not enter into my picture.
- No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Have you been to the Holocaust exhibit
- at the JCC.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I'm going.
- Have you gone?
- EVELYN BAILEY: No.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yeah, I am going.
- It's going to be here for another couple of weeks
- so, yeah definitely going.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Definitely 100 percent going.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah, [to Kevin] do you have--?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: No, I mean we just kind of touched briefly
- on HPA.
- Were you actively involved with HPA?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: At that time, I really wasn't.
- By that time I basically, didn't step down,
- but I was not really involved.
- Still with the board and everything.
- But the HPA don't forget was, what date
- do you think the HPA was?
- EVELYN BAILEY: 1986 to 2003.
- Yeah, it was begun by Dan Meyers and Jerry Algozer.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And they had little events in '86.
- Then their first HPA Dining for Dollar kind of thing
- was in '87 maybe '88, and that was at Village Gate.
- The first one's at Village Gate and then they went to Midtown.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: To Midtown.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And then it was there for, I think,
- five or six years.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Correct.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And then they went to the convention center.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Correct, correct.
- Now I personally didn't have anything to do with it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now at Heaven, were you the bouncer?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: No, well I was at the door sometimes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK, because I remember--
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Oh at Heaven?
- Yes, I was at the door a lot as a matter of fact.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Because I mean I was going to Heaven.
- And Chick and I were going to Heaven,
- and I would see you at the door.
- And I thought you were the bouncer.
- and I always wondered, how could he so thin, be--
- ALAN DAVIDSON: No, I was taking the money.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: You were the bouncer at many bars actually.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yes.
- I've been around.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Forty South union you were--
- you were a staple at Forty South Union.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: That's right.
- Forty South Union, Marcella's.
- Yeah, but that was after I stepped down
- on a lot of my activities and stuff like that.
- I just needed something to do is basically or whatever.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Alan were you ever,
- or did you ever feel ashamed of being gay?
- Or afraid, because you are gay?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yeah not ashamed that's for sure.
- But afraid?
- Yeah, yeah.
- When I first came out, sure I did.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I was afraid for a couple of reasons.
- Number one, I was afraid what my daughter would think.
- That was my main, main concern.
- Not only what she would think, but what
- her friends would think.
- And was I a good father?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Because at this time
- she was what a teenager or early adult right?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: My wife died when she was eight and a half
- and I came out to Susan when she was twelve.
- And it's very strange when you don't hear this
- too often that a parent comes out to a child.
- It's usually a child coming out to a parent.
- And of course one of her reactions was,
- yeah what are my friends going to say?
- So she wasn't too happy with it at the beginning,
- as far as a twelve-year-old goes.
- But as soon as she started to meet a few of my friends,
- and see that I wasn't any different in her eyes then
- fortunately we were very, very close when my wife was alive.
- So it wasn't a matter of me being thrown into a situation.
- But as she saw that things were good,
- then she fell right into it and loved my friends and everything
- else.
- And they loved her so it was a good, good relationship.
- And still is a wonderful relationship.
- And as I say, without her, I'm not sure
- whether I would be the person that I am today.
- Because she's the one that gave me my strength and everything
- it was just a great, great thing.
- Sometimes something terrible happens
- but, yet it's something good.
- But to answer your question, Yeah I
- was afraid basically because of her thinking more so
- than what was going to happen to me
- or what people would think of me or things like that.
- It was basically her.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did you ever feel physically threatened,
- I mean outside of being the bouncer because you were gay?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: No, no.
- I fortunately never had that happen.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: He was always wearing a Buffalo Bills Jersey.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Oh yeah I was butch.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Nobody messed around with him.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Wearing my Bills right now.
- Kevin knows.
- Yeah, no I never really did.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well let me ask you this
- though-- because you came out later in life
- you were in your forties already right?
- If I did my math right.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yep.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: From your perspective as someone
- who was coming out later in life,
- what were some of the challenges for you?
- Because you were probably going out to bars and most of the man
- at the bars were looking for younger men.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I don't know whether I
- would say it was challenges or not because I wasn't really
- looking for probably the same thing
- that a lot of other people were looking for.
- Where once again I think I needed adult companionship
- and I needed that male bonding.
- I needed that male influence around me
- and in achieving that, which I did achieve,
- made me very comfortable.
- So I wasn't uncomfortable and I really
- don't think I had a problem.
- Plus I mean I'm just my personality is such
- that I'm very friendly and very outgoing
- and I don't say it like it is and I think that helped me just
- pursued to go where I am today.
- I mean I look at it as all pluses and not negatives.
- And I really didn't look at it as a challenge or anything else
- like that.
- I just did my own thing and went my own way
- and people either took me or they didn't take me.
- That's the way I look at it, so it really wasn't bad.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So if you were to speak to a youth group
- today, what advice would you give them?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Definitely be your own person.
- Do your own thing.
- Believe in yourself.
- You are the person that's going to make you, nobody else is.
- You have to believe in yourself.
- You have to like yourself.
- And you have to be positive.
- And if you are negative and things,
- and just look down on things, you're
- not going to succeed, you're not going to be successful,
- you're not going to get anywhere.
- You got to just live the way you want to live,
- and really just live up to those goals
- that you have set yourself.
- And don't let any other buddy tell you any differently.
- That's what I would say.
- EVELYN BAILEY: One more question.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yes, ma'am?
- Yes, we can go on a date tomorrow.
- EVELYN BAILEY: As you look back--
- a couple of questions actually.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: As you look back over your activism
- in the gay community, what are you most proud of?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I probably would say--
- it's a tough question.
- Let me just preface this by saying it's just not me
- even though I did do a lot of things.
- But if you're putting it that way,
- I would say being one of the co-founders of AIDS Rochester.
- I would say that would be my claim to fame,
- is if I had to answer one thing.
- Because I think that's the kind of thing that we've all--
- everybody knows about AIDS and everybody
- knows about what was going on from when we started,
- to where we are now and just to see the progress of from day
- one to right now.
- It's like night and day.
- So I'm pretty sure that that would be the feather in the cap
- that I would be most proud of.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Looking back, over our struggles
- and our successes, what has surprised you most
- about the journey that the community has taken?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I would say, even today-- which is so sad--
- that people still can't perceive that a gay or homosexual person
- is the same as the neighbor next door.
- Or that people still are bigoted and opinionated
- and don't realize that they are just a human
- being just like everybody else and have
- feelings, and emotions, and goals, and wishes,
- and the stubbornness of a lot of people
- unfortunately is still there.
- I just-- it's hard to fathom on a day
- like we have today when people that probably a lot of people
- would never think that they were gay
- have come out, and seen that they came out.
- And knowing them as individuals, and why they still
- feel that there's discrimination against them.
- Because we are still being discriminated.
- We still don't have the rights that we should have.
- It's come a long way, and a long battle,
- and still going to be a long battle,
- but you know it's just frustrates me
- that people are still so stubborn and so ignorant.
- That's my opinion.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did you ever think twenty years ago,
- thirty years ago that gay marriage would
- be a reality in New York or anywhere?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Did I ever think or did I ever wish?
- I guess I've always wished for it.
- Let me put it that way, thirty years ago I didn't even
- think about gay marriage.
- I mean it just wasn't something in my mind.
- But as we progressed into more modern times,
- it certainly is become a number one concern.
- And did I ever think it would happen in my lifetime,
- to be honest with you no, I didn't think it would.
- I really didn't I think eventually, eventually
- the answer would be yes.
- In my lifetime, no, because I didn't
- see it progressing as the way that it did.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Are you surprised by the decline in the bar
- scene here in Rochester?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Not really.
- I just think that definitely things have changed.
- I think certain rules and regulations have made it change
- and people aren't that stupid that they're
- going to go out DWI, and they're going
- to get out behind the wheel.
- And that they just don't have to party 100 percent like they
- used to I'm really not surprised I can see that decline.
- I can see that decline because of the economy also.
- The economy just doesn't allow you
- to go out every single night and drink for five dollars or six
- dollars a bottle of beer.
- It's just become an economic thing as well as
- a moral or feeling kind of thing.
- So I'm really not surprised.
- EVELYN BAILEY: As you age--
- ALAN DAVIDSON: (laughs) Thank you.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What challenges do
- you see as a gay man who continues to grow older?
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Boy that's a tough question.
- But I guess I could say--
- I guess gay marriage would be one of the things,
- we have it now but with things happening
- left and right and fast and furious,
- states we know have changed their minds.
- And some of them have said yes where they meant no.
- And then they go back and forth.
- And I'm just wondering if there could be any effect that things
- could be reversed and go backwards rather than forwards.
- I rather see things going forward.
- I don't know I just see some things being in the negative
- and going back instead of forward.
- I guess this is the thing I just want to see things going
- forward instead of backwards.
- And I've seen a few things going backwards, which is bad.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What do they say,
- two steps forward one step back.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: Yeah, Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well Alan, thank you very much.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: OK.
- Yeah now what are we doing with this?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well two things.
- ALAN DAVIDSON: I should have asked before I started foaming
- at my mouth, huh?