Audio Interview, Bill Pritchard, February 16, 2012
- BILL PRITCHARD: This is a good microphone?
- I won't have to shout?
- EVELYN BAILEY: No.
- It will pick it up fine.
- I'm here with Bill Pritchard in his now new hometown.
- And we've been talking about the past, and the Alliance,
- and his contribution to politics in Rochester.
- And it was very interesting for me to hear his story
- pre-Rochester and how he came to be in Rochester
- and how he and Michael met.
- So the first thing I wanted to do was ask you
- where were you born?
- BILL PRITCHARD: St. Mary's Hospital in Rochester.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And then you went to high school?
- BILL PRITCHARD: In Hilton.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So you were from Hilton?
- BILL PRITCHARD: Yeah.
- Actually yeah, from Hilton.
- I grew up in Hilton.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And then where did you go to college?
- BILL PRITCHARD: St. John Fisher College.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And then you went into the military?
- BILL PRITCHARD: Yep.
- Air Force.
- Air Force Intelligence.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Air Force Intelligence.
- Talk to me about that.
- BILL PRITCHARD: Well, I can't, because otherwise I'd be shot.
- (Laughter)
- EVELYN BAILEY: Then talk to me about your experience.
- Were you out in the Air Force?
- BILL PRITCHARD: No.
- I mean, not at work.
- But my social life was all gay.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And were you out in high school?
- BILL PRITCHARD: No.
- I wasn't out to myself.
- I didn't know in high school.
- I suspected but didn't know.
- No, it wasn't until I got into college.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And in the military did
- you experience any negativity because of your being gay?
- BILL PRITCHARD: No, they didn't know.
- I mean, the people I worked with didn't know.
- The military didn't know I was gay.
- The only thing I was subjected to
- occasionally was the occasional crude joke.
- But no, I experienced no discrimination.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And where did you meet Michael?
- BILL PRITCHARD: In Norfolk, Virginia.
- He had just gotten out of the Navy.
- I was still in the Air Force.
- And we met through a mutual friend.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And how long were you out of Rochester?
- When did you come back to Rochester?
- BILL PRITCHARD: A total of five years.
- I was gone for five years.
- I came back to Rochester in September of 1990.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And were you involved with the community?
- BILL PRITCHARD: Almost from the beginning.
- One of the first things I did was attend a meeting
- that September actually, just after we
- had moved to Rochester, of the Rochester Lesbian and Gay
- Political Caucus.
- And at that meeting, Susan John and Joe Morelle
- were speaking as candidates for state assembly.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And what happened?
- How did that go from attending the meeting to becoming--
- BILL PRITCHARD: Well, I think what happens in a lot of cases,
- there were people who had been--
- I think the chairpersonship of the group
- had been handed back and forth between people who had
- been members for a long time.
- I was one of the newer faces in the crowd.
- And by February of 1991--
- (Side conversation with waiter)
- So anyways, by February of 1991, it
- was the person who was chair at the time needed to resign.
- I think it was Jenny Bowker.
- She had other things she needed to do,
- couldn't be chair of the caucus anymore.
- And I was nominated mainly because I
- think everybody else in the room had
- been the chair of the group at least once.
- And I hadn't been chair at all so it
- was my turn, even though I had only been there
- for a couple of months.
- And then I ended up being chair of the political caucus
- for the next four years.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And what did the political caucus do?
- BILL PRITCHARD: Well, the political caucus
- was the political group in Rochester
- before the Empire State Pride Agenda.
- And It had been in existence for a number of years.
- I certainly wasn't the first or second chair of that group.
- It had a long history before I came on board.
- And pre-Emprire State Pride Agenda days,
- it played a significant role in representing
- Rochester's LGBT community in the political arena.
- As Empire State Pride Agenda increased its presence
- in Rochester, the political caucus' role
- was less important, if you will, because the Empire State Pride
- Agenda had full time people at their disposal.
- They had lobbyists in Albany.
- But it also represented the transition in our community.
- One from where most of our political work
- was done by community activists, to more
- of a sophisticated role where we had people
- paid to do that lobbying.
- Still as passionate nonetheless, but they were paid.
- And I think that that kind of transition
- is represented across many communities, not just
- the gay and lesbian community, and not
- just in political groups.
- Nonprofits go through the same thing.
- AIDS Rochester is a good example of an organization formed
- by activists.
- And after a certain point as an organization grows,
- there's a transition from its very committed community
- activist leaders to those who have perhaps more
- experience or training in running
- nonprofit organizations.
- It happened with AIDS Rochester, and to a degree
- it happened on a broader level with the political activity
- in our community.
- We needed to rely on the paid guns, if you will,
- like (unintelligible).
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, the political caucus a part of the alliance?
- BILL PRITCHARD: It had a relationship with the Gay
- Alliance, but it wasn't a formal one
- because of the political nature of the group.
- But we were considered in some way affiliated
- with the Gay Alliance
- EVELYN BAILEY: And did you recommend candidates?
- Was it your group that put the list of gay friendly candidates
- in the Empty Closet?
- BILL PRITCHARD: Yes we did.
- We would survey candidates, and based
- on the responses to the survey we
- would make recommendations who the gay community should
- consider supporting in those fall elections.
- I'll never forget one year, two interesting stories,
- one dealing with David Gantt and Wade Norwood.
- This had to have been 1993.
- It was.
- Wade was up for re-election to city council.
- And we had surveyed all the candidates for city council,
- and Wade never responded.
- Now, I've gotten to know Wade a lot better many, many years
- later, and I now realize that that was probably
- a product of his disorganization and not a lack of caring.
- However, because he hadn't responded,
- we decided to not endorse an alternative to Wade
- but just not include him in our recommendations.
- I remember at the party's convention.
- I remember like it was yesterday.
- We were at the School of the Arts,
- and it was me and Tom Fraase.
- And I'm pretty sure Don Belack was there, and a few others.
- And David Gantt walks up to us.
- Because David Gantt, of course, was Wade's political mentor.
- And he doesn't really know me, but he
- knows Tom, because Tom had been involved in Democratic Party
- politics for a number of years.
- And David also knows, at the time, of course,
- that Tom is involved in the gay community.
- He walks right up to Tom Fraase, and he starts waving his finger
- and screaming at him.
- "How could you not recommend Wade Norwood?
- What is wrong with you?
- I'm going to get you guys, you're
- going to regret this, blah blah blah."
- And we're trying to explain to David.
- We're jumping and trying to stand in solidarity with Tom,
- because he was getting the full brunt of it,
- to explain that Wade had never responded to the survey.
- Well, that was probably putting gasoline on the fire for David,
- because he basically in so many words,
- and if I remember correctly, some of them
- were colorful words.
- "How could we be so stupid to withhold a recommendation
- from someone like Wade?"
- We know he's with us.
- Just because he didn't return some kind of--
- four letter word, he described it-- survey.
- Second experience was in 1991, just a couple years
- before that, actually, before the exchange
- with David and Wade.
- Bob King was running for county executive.
- And he was running against Tom Frey, the incumbent Democrat
- county executive.
- And we wanted to meet with both candidates.
- And of course, Tom was very available.
- Tom came to the Gay Alliance where we met.
- He met with the group and answered our survey.
- And Bob didn't, and Bob wouldn't.
- Instead, I met with Irene Matichyn,
- who was his campaign manager.
- And I was new and naive to politics.
- I was new in politics and naive about politics at the time.
- And I had some very good conversations with Irene,
- and she came across as very friendly.
- And I'm thinking, this is all really good.
- At the time, it was looking like, of course,
- it bore out that Bob did beat Tom Frye.
- So I was looking at that time during the race,
- he's going to be our county executive,
- and we need to have a relationship
- with the next county executive whether he's
- a Democrat or a Republican.
- The Empty Closet comes out with the story.
- And it was true, but it probably could have been worded
- differently for Irene's liking.
- The article basically said that Bob would not
- meet with the gay community unless it
- was behind closed doors.
- Which is all true.
- She didn't say it that way.
- She wanted to meet with the executive committee
- of the political caucus.
- Bob was too busy to come to a community type forum
- to talk about his issues and his stance
- on gay and lesbian issues as a candidate for county executive,
- et cetera, et cetera.
- She calls me up.
- And now, this is before cellphones.
- And we're living with my grandmother
- and she'd had my number.
- That was my number.
- I didn't have a cell phone, that was my number to contact me
- when I wasn't at work.
- And she calls my grandmother's house
- and my grandmother answers the phone.
- And of course, Irene was very polite to my grandmother,
- thank god.
- Gets me on the phone, and when my grandmother
- was just a few feet away in her kitchen,
- starts screaming at me over the telephone,
- over the Empty Closet article.
- "How dare you tell people that Bob King won't meet with you,
- won't meet with your caucus?
- I told you we would."
- I'm trying to hold my ground, but Irene Matichyn
- was a bull in a china shop, she still is.
- "Irene, you did tell me you didn't want
- any kind of public meeting."
- "I didn't put it that way."
- I said, "Well, the article didn't quite
- put it the way you said it, but the point
- is basically still the same."
- Tom was willing to meet with the community in an open forum
- and Bob was not.
- "He's going to be the next county executive,
- and he's going to represent all the people.
- And you've got to understand that."
- Oh my God.
- It was an interesting conversation.
- It was one of the beginning ways that I
- cut my teeth on politics.
- And I would hope, certainly over the years,
- I became less naive about politics.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did those experiences then
- give you some insight into your future political career?
- BILL PRITCHARD: Well, I knew I was always
- interested in politics.
- And I was at the same time, at the time
- that this all occurred, I was working for Tim Mains
- as his legislative aide.
- So I was already immersed in city issues.
- Two years later after this exchange with Irene,
- it was the '93 election.
- I had mentioned that earlier about Wade.
- Tim's reelected 1994 fresh off of a reelection victory
- where he was not the favorite candidate.
- He did not get the party's endorsement.
- He was able to be successful in the September
- primary, of course, went on to win in the fall.
- Early 1994, he decides now's the time
- to pass domestic partnership legislation for city employees
- and to establish a domestic partnership
- registry for anyone, regardless of where they live,
- to be able to come to the city and register
- their domestic partnership.
- That was a great opportunity for me,
- because while working with Tim I was also still
- the head of the political caucus.
- I was on the Gay Alliance board by now.
- So I was becoming very involved in the community.
- And I took on in helping support the political side,
- the electoral side, of this, the legislative side.
- I organized the community effort to give him coverage,
- give those on council who were supporting him coverage.
- From what we knew, it was going to come their way, and it did.
- In 1994, domestic partnership wasn't a new issue.
- It had happened in a number of Californian cities before.
- But for Rochester it was new.
- For Rochester, it was breaking new ground.
- And we were successful for both getting domestic partner
- benefits for city employees and for the registry.
- In fact, Michael and I were the first to register.
- But it was coming out of that experience and the others
- in that time period.
- I had always been interested in possibly
- being an elected official and being in politics.
- Those experiences helped me focus on to the office
- I wanted to hold, and I wanted to be on city council.
- I had begun to develop a very strong passionate belief
- in urban planning and city issues,
- and doing what I could to help rescue
- our cities from their decline.
- At least what you're able to do on such a low level,
- as far as a lower level in government.
- So yeah, that was when I really began to focus.
- I was already involved in democratic politics.
- I was already involved in campaigns.
- But it was really around that time period
- I thought, you know, I could be an elected official.
- I could do this, and I'd want to do it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What moved you to be
- more involved with the alliance and become
- president of the alliance?
- BILL PRITCHARD: You know, it was 1992,
- and it may very well have been Chuck
- who was the one who said-- and you were on the board
- too at the time.
- It might have been you and Chuck.
- I was already involved in the political caucus.
- I was working for Tim Mains.
- I can't remember if I approached you guys,
- or maybe it might have been a combination.
- I was thinking about it.
- And I think there's some openings coming up.
- And they said, "Geez Bill, you're
- involved in this and that, why don't you, you know."
- I had an interest in the organization.
- I was already familiar with it, obviously,
- as a member of the political caucus
- and our affiliation with the GAGV.
- And just being more involved in increasing involvement
- in the community, knowing what the Gay Alliance did,
- what it fought for.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Were there any paid employees at that time?
- BILL PRITCHARD: Susan Jordan.
- And Harlow Russell.
- Remember Harlow?
- Who was our bookkeeper.
- And may God rest him, God bless his soul.
- But Harlow was so funny.
- Even before I was on the board, I spent a lot of time
- in the building on Atlantic Avenue.
- And I was writing for the Empty Closet, I had a column,
- and of course I was involved in the political caucus and all
- that.
- And Harlow would give me the hardest time.
- "You're an assimilationist.
- You're an assimilationist."
- You know, frankly, I was younger.
- I don't think I really understood
- what an assimilationist was.
- I just knew Harlow, the way he was saying it,
- it wasn't a good thing.
- I would say, "No I'm not."
- So anyway, we had the two.
- Harlow was part time, our time bookkeeper.
- And Susan Jordan was the full time Empty Closet editor.
- And I joined in '92, I was chair of the Human Resources
- Committee.
- And the next year I became vice president of the board.
- And then I was in that position for about a year and a half.
- During that time period, the alliance
- did hire our first full time employee separate from Susan.
- Susan was dedicated, as you know,
- exclusively to the Empty Closet, had been for years.
- We were hiring someone who would focus
- on the rest of the operation.
- We developed a job description, we had interviews.
- There was some dissension in the community
- and on the board of who we should choose.
- We ended up going with Tanya Salinsky.
- And I was still vice president.
- Lloyd Gray was president.
- He succeeded Paul Scheib.
- I think, actually, Tanya came on board in the last months
- of Paul Scheib's presidency.
- He did.
- Because I was still chair of human resources.
- I led the effort in the hiring process.
- First of all, I had no experience and resources,
- so it was not the best position for me to be in.
- But nonetheless, that's where I was.
- Me and Marta Melinsky.
- And there was somebody else on that committee,
- and I can't remember who it was.
- It was me, Marta, and somebody else.
- Anyways, we ended up--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Dick Cannett?
- BILL PRITCHARD: No, it wasn't Dick.
- It wasn't Dick.
- So we recommended to the board, we recommend Tanya.
- And I don't recall, I don't think it was a unanimous vote,
- but majority went with Tanya.
- Paul Scheib, in his final months, dealt with her.
- And then of course Lloyd became president.
- I became vice president.
- And after Lloyd was there, he was there
- for one full year term, and then part of a second one year term,
- and he left.
- I can't remember if he quit the board because he was moving out
- of town.
- I do know that I suspect that he left the board--
- would have left the board anyways.
- I say that laughingly, because a little over a year and a half
- later, I did the same thing.
- And the reason was Tanya.
- I know this is going to be heard by people forever,
- so I will withhold my most severe comments.
- But a new organization, a new employee, and it
- was volunteer board members who were
- serving as de facto executive directors.
- It was a challenge for everybody.
- It was a challenging relationship for Tanya,
- for Lloyd, and then for me.
- And those were growing pains, those years.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I want to go back, though.
- Before the first center director was hired.
- Were the services that the Alliance was offering,
- were they in more demand?
- Was the Alliance growing in its outreach?
- What precipitated the need to hire
- a center director or an ED?
- BILL PRITCHARD: As people came on the board
- like me, people who hadn't been involved
- with the board as a board member for a number of years,
- we saw the amount of work that board members put
- into running the organization.
- And then, of course, I experienced that firsthand,
- to a lesser degree as vice president.
- I did work closely with Lloyd, but Lloyd was the president.
- And then as president.
- But I knew it even before I got in those positions,
- that it was a great deal of work.
- And I felt, and others agreed with me, I think.
- Most of the board agreed that if the organization was ever
- going to grow into something bigger than it currently
- was at the time, it would likely not
- get there without the presence of at least a few, or at least
- one, full time paid employee.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Were there grants at the time?
- BILL PRITCHARD: I don't call any grants.
- Our main funding sources, The Empty Closet
- was generating a profit prize for the organization,
- our membership dues.
- This was in the days before the New York state health grants.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And the major fund raising efforts.
- BILL PRITCHARD: The picnic, the events.
- In those years too, though, those first couple of years
- we were also receiving money from ImageOut.
- Though I think the current organization does give the Gay
- Alliance its due, ImageOut started as a program
- with the Gay Alliance.
- I had the good fortune of being there
- when the relationship started.
- And I had the misfortune of being president of the board
- and at the meeting in November.
- I think it was 1996 when Jamie went back
- and Susan Soleil stormed into the executive committee,
- handed us a letter, and left.
- And the letter said, we, ImageOut are hereby--
- actually, at the time it was called the Rochester Lesbian
- Gay Film Festival--
- are hereby announcing our emancipation
- from the Gay Alliance.
- And we will work with you and provide some of our net
- proceeds to you over the next year,
- because we need your 501(c)(3) status to operate.
- But at the end of that twelve month period,
- we will be completely emancipated.
- And this wasn't posed to us in the form of a question.
- It was a done deal.
- And I laugh about it now.
- Actually, you may have been in that room, Evelyn.
- In that executive committee meeting.
- EVELYN BAILEY: No, I don't think executive committee.
- BILL PRITCHARD: For me, it was an extremely challenging
- incident for a number of reasons.
- And of course, now I have eighteen, almost twenty years
- of hindsight to benefit from.
- But at the time, it felt like a huge betrayal.
- We felt we'd given life to the festival.
- The people who had come together and dedicated their hearts
- and souls felt otherwise.
- Not to the degree that we did.
- From the get go, there was a significant difference
- of opinion over the true purpose of the festival.
- We saw it on the board as being a revenue
- generator and secondarily a nice thing for the community.
- The group of volunteers that had come together,
- Larry Chiampou, Susan Soleil, David Emert and others,
- felt that first and foremost it was a community benefit.
- A show of artistic expression in film and video.
- And that the cost to put on the festival and the money
- that it netted, the revenue that it netted,
- were secondary issues.
- And it was a difference of opinion.
- We tried.
- We tried in those months leading up
- to that delivery of the letter.
- The difference of opinion was just too great.
- We were never going to completely cede
- control of the financial arm of the group,
- and they felt like we were holding them back
- on the creative side.
- And you know what?
- In hindsight, they were right.
- The best thing for the festival that ever happened
- was breaking away from the Gay Alliance,
- because it gave the group the opportunity
- to focus on the artistic side.
- And fortunately, over time, the individuals
- I mentioned a minute ago and others who came on board
- began to realize that this can be
- a fantastic expression of art, and it can also make money.
- And I think that came about because unlike when it was
- under the Gay Alliance, they now had one-hundred percent
- responsibility for the financial side of the event,
- whereas before they didn't.
- And so even though it was painful at the time,
- and it was years before I ever spoke to Susan
- or Larry or David again.
- It took years.
- And Jamie, to a lesser degree Jamie, but still
- for a while Jamie.
- But it was for the best.
- And it was the best for them, and it was
- the best for the Gay Alliance.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So move forward to leaving the Alliance in 1997?
- '98?
- BILL PRITCHARD: November of '96.
- EVELYN BAILEY: November '96.
- And you no longer were president.
- BILL PRITCHARD: Nope.
- Well, I was president when I resigned.
- I just came to a point where I was working
- for Tim Mains and Susan John.
- And in fact, I remember very clearly all these years later,
- we were having the executive committee meeting.
- And Michael and I didn't have a lot of money.
- We had one car.
- How I was typically getting between offices--
- I would work for Tim in the morning
- and Susan in the afternoons--
- I typically walked between city hall and Susan's office
- over the village gate.
- Which on a nice day isn't such a bad walk.
- This was November.
- An early storm had come about.
- I'm walking, I'm cold, I'm tired.
- And I had a lot going on, and obviously that
- wasn't the first day all that happened.
- And I just broke.
- I walk in to the executive committee meeting,
- and I'm walking in there with the thoughts
- of what am I doing?
- And of course, there were also growing pains
- with the new staff and the whole new structural relationship
- that we were trying to build in the Gay Alliance.
- So I had all that pressure and all that grief
- and walking between jobs in winter.
- I got to spend more time on me.
- So I walked in, and about halfway
- through the executive committee meeting,
- I said Harry, sorry to do this to you--
- because he was vice president--
- I said I'm resigning.
- This is it for me.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I didn't know that story.
- Never to return to the board.
- BILL PRITCHARD: No.
- Now, you and Chick, and a couple others are the exceptions.
- Most board members leave never to return,
- and I fell into that group.
- I don't regret my little over four and a half years
- on the board.
- I don't regret it for a minute.
- I met some great people.
- We met way back when.
- I've maintained some longtime friendships.
- Having said all of that.
- I never had any interest in returning to the board.
- And John even asked me once, it was back a couple of years ago
- actually.
- So a number of years had passed.
- I think he was vice president at the time under Tom.
- It was the reincarnation of the HPA event,
- that first year that they brought it back.
- I'm at that one of the parties, and John said, "Would you
- ever consider coming back on the Gay Alliance board?"
- And I said something to the effect of,
- "John, I'm extremely flattered that you would ask,
- and absolutely not."
- INTERVIEWER So talk to me a little bit
- about the impact of AIDS during the early '90s.
- AIDS Rochester had been begun in 1986, '85.
- BILL PRITCHARD: '85, yes, something like that.
- Well, actually, it started before that.
- I think they started as a very small volunteer operation back
- in '82, '83, on the second floor of Tara's.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And by 1990, 92, AIDS Rochester
- was incorporated, I think.
- BILL PRITCHARD: Oh absolutely, yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And then by '96, it was on University.
- And the numbers had begun to come down and the funding.
- Was the funding a problem?
- BILL PRITCHARD: No, in fact, I was the development director
- for AIDS Rochester for three years, from '97 to 2000.
- During my time there, we had the highest and second
- highest grossing AIDS walks in the agency's history.
- At that time, funding was not an issue for AIDS.
- There were still a number of people who were supporting it
- with their individual gifts.
- Corporations were still very supportive,
- and there were a number of grants.
- And the AIDS Institute was, if not flush with money,
- certainly it was well funded.
- But there were already changes happening in the demographics
- of the disease.
- Even by '97, we were beginning to see an increasing
- number of women of color coming through as HIV positive, who
- had become infected through unprotected sex.
- In many cases, either with their husbands
- who were on the down low, or not through sex
- but through drug use, injection drug use.
- And we also began to see, in the mid '90s, an increasing number
- of gay men of color turning up HIV
- positive for a number of reasons.
- So the demographic and the face of AIDS was changing.
- The funding hadn't really changed significantly.
- In fact, we observed in my three years at AIDS Rochester,
- we observed when you looked at our events, certainly
- the AIDS walk.
- You look around the faces of the people who were present.
- And we knew back at the agency, our events
- were probably at that time eighty-five
- to ninety percent white people in attendance.
- We knew back at the agency when it was food cupboard day
- that seventy-five to eighty percent of our clients
- were either African American or Latino.
- The people who were comprising the stalwart supporters
- were people who had lost sons, husbands, or partners years ago
- and were still involved because they still
- embraced the memory of their departed loved one over time.
- We began to see inklings of this by the time I left in 2000.
- It really started taking effect between 2000, 2004, 2005.
- The decline in the funding for AIDS
- mirrored the decline in interest for a number of reasons.
- Some of them racial, some of them economic.
- The people becoming infected were poor people, generally
- speaking.
- And then these people I had mentioned a minute ago,
- the Caucasians who had lost husbands, sons,
- partners, to AIDS.
- Brothers.
- And you notice I'm being very specific in my use of gender.
- Because in the early '80s, early '90s, it was mostly gay men.
- That had been changing.
- And by the early 2000s there was a significant change.
- Not the gay men, and as we know, gay men
- were still becoming infected.
- But the number of gay men becoming infected
- was being outpaced by the number of straight women
- and straight men through injection drug use, primarily.
- Additionally, all the gay men who were becoming infected,
- an increasing percentage were men of color.
- And from a fund raising perspective, from a funding
- perspective, from a community fund raising perspective,
- we were beginning to have populations
- that just didn't have the disposable income
- to support the agency.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, put this in a time frame.
- Who was executive director at the time?
- BILL PRITCHARD: At AIDS Rochester?
- Paula Silvestron.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And was Michael Beatty there?
- BILL PRITCHARD: The associate executive director.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And Jeff Kost?
- BILL PRITCHARD: I replaced Jeff as director of development.
- Who I stayed in touch with.
- In fact, we were just in Washington a couple of weeks
- ago for dinner with me and Michael.
- We've stayed friends all these years.
- He's been gone now.
- He left Rochester in 1997.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well then, I will be coming down again,
- because I would really like to get you
- and Bilda Stevens and Bob Giordano.
- And I want to interview Jeff Kost.
- I emailed his sister to see where he was,
- because he has another life.
- He has many lives, but he has another life in the community
- aside from AIDS Rochester.
- BILL PRITCHARD: Well, he certainly did.
- I think we both are referring to the same thing.
- He dabbled for a brief period of time
- in the entertainment business.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes, he did.
- BILL PRITCHARD: But Jeff is a wonderful person.
- And in fact, we were just talking about Jeff
- the other day with someone.
- I was using him as an example, and I said, "You know,
- Jeff and I have many of the same passions.
- And we know many of the same people."
- And actually, I got into my fund raising career because of Jeff.
- EVELYN BAILEY: How so?
- BILL PRITCHARD: Well, because when he left AIDS Rochester,
- I was working for Action for a Better Community
- and health in AIDS policy.
- I had a little bit of fund raising,
- but I really liked AIDS Rochester.
- I had done some volunteer fund raising,
- I had no professional experience.
- But part of the job also involved AIDS advocacy,
- and you know, I've been in government
- for a number of years, I knew that stuff.
- And so I took a chance and I applied.
- And Paula took a chance on me.
- Paula Silvestrone then hired me.
- The difference between me and Jeff
- though, our careers have been similar,
- we have many friends in common.
- Jeff's a lot nicer than me.
- So there isn't a single person I've ever
- met who doesn't like Jeff Kost.
- That's true.
- I have never met a person who does not like Jeff Kost.
- He's just one of those people.
- EVELYN BAILEY: He is, he is.
- So after AIDS Rochester, you went on to city council.
- BILL PRITCHARD: No, no.
- There was a few years after that.
- I went on to work at Rochester Institute of Technology
- in fund raising.
- And it was while I was there I was appointed to city council
- in August of 2003.
- EVELYN BAILEY: In the six years you were on council,
- identify for me two highlights.
- Two things that stand out most in your mind.
- BILL PRITCHARD: Well, highlights not necessarily in a good way.
- But the things that come to mind immediately, one of them
- is I'll never forget the incident that happened
- on South Goodman street.
- There was a group of, I think, four women and one or two guys.
- It was two in the morning, they were coming back
- from one of the bars on Monroe Avenue.
- It wasn't the Pub.
- It was one of the others.
- And they ended up getting in a fight
- with a group of people who were sitting on their porch.
- It ended up with a bunch of gay slurs being shouted.
- It ended up with the police being called to the scene,
- and a couple of police officers not being as sensitive as they
- could have been to the situation.
- And in fact, getting angry with and charging
- three of the people who had been beaten up with disorderly
- conduct.
- In the gay community, it became a rallying cry
- against the police because of the accusations of homophobia,
- police brutality, you know.
- And in my political career, I always
- took the position that people are
- innocent until proven guilty.
- And I saw, as a lot of people did,
- the raw emotion or emotions that were involved with that event.
- And I knew something was wrong.
- I wasn't one-hundred percent sure that it was all
- the policemen's fault. Or even was is it
- the number of policemen, was it one or two?
- Did that group that got beaten up,
- did they contribute to their own circumstance?
- I did believe at the time, and I still do, they did.
- But I wasn't going to call come out like others did
- and call for the policemen who were in the incident
- to be suspended, automatically saying
- that they were homophobes, et cetera, et cetera.
- And I met downtown at Presbyterian church,
- and there's a community forum.
- The Gay Alliance I think sponsored it.
- Alex Cobus actually, the anti-violence project
- sponsored it.
- And I was the only member of city council who attended.
- Somebody asked me a question about it.
- And I said basically what I just said.
- I said our police officers deserve the right to be
- innocent until proven guilty.
- There's been an investigation that has begun,
- and they deserve the opportunity for
- a fair, unbiased investigation.
- Well, there were certain people in the room
- who didn't agree with that.
- And I was called several things.
- And what bothered me was that a couple of the people
- actually questioned my support of the gay community.
- I said, "This has nothing to do with my support
- for the gay community.
- This is my opinion, is my support
- of what I believe is right.
- And people are innocent until proven guilty."
- That stands out.
- This is like a montage, a collage of impressions.
- I can remember being in the gay parade.
- And I think it was the last one.
- It was.
- It was is the last one I walked in.
- It had to have been 2008, because I didn't walk in 2009.
- I was already on my way out, and I said, "My time's done."
- I hadn't watched the parade in like seventeen years.
- I had marched in it every year.
- I wanted to watch the parade for a change.
- Well, we're marching, and I'm walking with Mayor Duffy.
- And I'm still getting chills now, I can still remember it.
- It was at one point along the march.
- And of course they always have to have a couple
- of haters in the group.
- It was at one of the intersections,
- and there were several of them.
- And in the past, they would say just nasty
- rotten anti-gay things, and then have signs that were horrible.
- You learn to just ignore it.
- None of the gay people in the parade
- were receiving any of the attention from these haters.
- It was all being directed in extremely negative tones
- and words against Mayor Duffy and Chief Moore, Police Chief
- Moore.
- Hang on a minute.
- (Side conversation)
- And oh my God, the chief and the mayor were just being vilified.
- Called all kinds of nasty, nasty things.
- And the way the two of them handled it,
- and I can't remember exactly what the mayor said.
- We were walking together, and we were talking.
- And it was his comments, his supportive comments
- of the gay cause, and his dismissive comments of--
- without even being rude or anything, but just
- those poor people.
- They're just sad.
- And I started to tear up.
- Even right now.
- Because it was just such a moment
- in the face of just unadulterated hate,
- venomous hate.
- That people who didn't need to be in that parade,
- chose to be there.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That's an incredible experience.
- So now, having left Rochester and looking back,
- as we've done quite a bit.
- What would you identify in your Rochester experience
- as the most growth producing personally for you?
- BILL PRITCHARD: I mean, there were several experiences
- and people who helped me grow as a person and in my professions,
- political and fund raising.
- Some of the people who I perhaps have ended up
- having the most significant disagreements with I probably
- learned the most from.
- Over the years, Tim Mains and I began
- to see less and less of an agreement,
- or be less and less in agreement.
- It was inevitable.
- He'd been my boss, my mentor, and I'd
- outgrown that relationship.
- And I think it was a challenging dynamic for both of us
- to handle, especially when we became colleagues.
- And I was no longer the legislative aide.
- I was now a full fledged colleague
- with my own opinions, my own ideas, my own ambitions.
- And so he and I certainly had our differences
- and our disagreements, and in spite of the sometimes heated
- disagreements that he and I had, I
- think I probably learned from him.
- He was one of the people of a handful of people
- back in Rochester who I learned the most
- from in a political context about politics
- and about being in politics.
- One of the people in a personal way
- in the context of my gay part of my life, if you will,
- who perhaps I learned the most from and admire the most even
- to this day is Sue Cowell.
- Even though I accidentally backed into her car
- when I was home on a visit last summer.
- And when I had to go door to door
- and I came across the house, actually
- she was in Tom Fraase's house.
- And I said, "Tom," because there was a gay flag on the car,
- I said, "Tom, do you have any visitors right now?"
- And he said, "Yes, Sue Cowell's here."
- Oh shit.
- It was her car.
- $1,200 worth of damage later, but in spite of that, I did.
- I learned a lot from her.
- Perhaps the most I admire about her is that she hasn't stopped.
- I came and went.
- I was there for a few years, and I'm gone.
- Sue's been in the community, you've been in the community,
- for decades.
- And thank god you have.
- And the organizations I was involved in, I would not have.
- I learned as a leader of the caucus, as a board member
- at the Alliance, it was my first real board.
- Because the caucus was more of a group, it wasn't on board.
- The Alliance was a board.
- And dealing with the varying personalities,
- I'll never forget.
- God love Judge Yacknin.
- I'll never forget.
- I still laugh to this day when she was on the board.
- And she had the most artful way of disagreeing with you,
- and you knew it was coming.
- She would go on, and she would start off
- by saying after you've said something,
- and if you didn't know her, you would get blindsided.
- Because she would go on for a couple of sentences,
- "I think that's a wonderful thought on your part."
- Until you started knowing her better
- and picking up the subtleties in what she was saying
- and the words she was choosing.
- Because then you knew.
- You knew that any moment, and she didn't usually use the word
- but, but it was coming.
- I'll never forget that.
- But she would drive me insane on the board sometimes.
- But it was a good learning experience,
- because she is an extremely smart individual.
- And you've got to learn.
- If you're not one of the smartest people at the table,
- and I never have been, you've got
- to learn how to work with the smartest
- people around the table, because they'll
- dance circles around you if you don't
- learn how to work with them.
- So I eventually learned.
- Never completely, because she's a lot smarter than I am.
- But once I learned the cues, I knew what to avoid,
- certainly what things, what buzzwords to avoid.
- But it was a good experience.
- She taught me a lot.
- She knows.
- Ron Kwasman, too.
- Ron Kwasman.
- Sort of a different learning experience,
- and I say this with a heart full of goodwill for him,
- but in those days he could be a real SOB.
- And being a fellow board member, whereas Ellen
- could disagree with you but do it in an eloquent way,
- there was no eloquence about Ron's disagreement with you.
- And you know that, you're smiling.
- But that was also a good learning experience,
- because you also had to deal with people who, like Ron, are
- very, very strident in communicating
- their points of view.
- And I'm not even saying whether he was right or wrong,
- because there were times when he was right,
- there were times where he was wrong.
- It didn't matter.
- Even when he was wrong, he would just as forcefully
- convey his opinion.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That's true.
- BILL PRITCHARD: And the whole experience with ImageOut.
- I learned a lot from that.
- I was too controlling.
- I wasn't seeing the big picture and it took a while
- it took some years of hindsight to realize,
- like I said earlier, that it was the best thing.
- Them breaking away was the best thing for both organizations.
- Some of the personell challenges I encountered
- at the Gay Alliance I think began
- building a foundation for me to be a better manager
- as I progressed in my career.
- And the friends.
- Don Belack, I'm friends with him to this day.
- I was just speaking with him today on the phone.
- And I could go on and on, but I'd eat up your tape.
- But the number of people who I met and learned from back
- in Rochester in a political and in a non-political context.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What makes you not afraid to be who you are?
- I know that's a tough question.
- BILL PRITCHARD: I think if Michael were here,
- my partner, I think he would say probably, I'm guessing,
- that I'm full of myself.
- And I don't think I'm full of myself.
- Sometimes a sense of security can inadvertently come across
- as being full of yourself.
- I'm sure of myself.
- I'm not full of myself.
- And I tie that right back to how I was raised.
- I had a very supportive home environment.
- I grew up like a lot of kids don't today.
- I had two parents in the house.
- My mother didn't work until we were teens.
- Outside of the house, that is.
- We had food on the table, a roof over our heads.
- We weren't rich.
- In fact, we were probably by today's standards
- certainly I would say--
- we didn't realize it at the time,
- we were probably lower middle class.
- But we had a good home environment.
- And that helped prepare me for what would come as an adult
- later.
- And be surer of myself, and be able to stand up
- and say who I am.
- Whether it's in the middle of reelection in 2005
- in an African American church downtown
- talk about my partner, one the last places that politically
- speaking you'd want to do that.
- Because generally speaking, it's pretty much true today
- as it was then.
- Especially in more of the evangelical African American
- churches, gays are not fully embraced.
- I didn't care.
- Or it's like when I was running for re-reelection
- and I sought the auto workers endorsement.
- And I owned two foreign cars at the time.
- And I started off my interview by stating that,
- being very matter of fact.
- And then I explained why I was there in spite of that,
- and I got endorsed.
- But it goes back to the way I was raised.
- And the things that happened in between the time I
- was a child and a teenager and today.
- My experiences in the Gay Alliance
- in the political caucus, my professional positions,
- my time in politics.
- They've just reinforced for me.
- While there are some things I'll compromise,
- I'd like to think that I didn't compromise
- my political ideology too much on council.
- And I think most people would agree,
- because I still have to this day some of my very liberal friends
- who still say I was the most--
- while I was on city council, there
- was one Republican on council.
- I'll never compromise who I am, whether it's
- being a gay man in a congregation filled
- with straight African American men,
- or a registered Democrat in a sea of Republicans,
- like I am moreso here on a daily basis.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Were you ever afraid of being a gay person?
- BILL PRITCHARD: I don't recall being afraid.
- I think concerned, which maybe this is one degree below
- afraid.
- When I was in the military.
- And the reason for that was I saw
- people who were removed from service because they
- were discovered to be gay.
- There was one guy in particular who was my sponsor when
- I got to the base when I first arrived who
- was assigned to show me around.
- Ease my transition into the life at Langley Air Force Base.
- But within about four months after I arrived,
- he disappeared.
- Come to find out he was at Wilford Medical Hall in Texas.
- He had been having some pretty serious physical problems.
- Doctors at Langley couldn't figure out what was going on.
- Sent to Wilford Medical Hall in Texas, which was at the time
- the largest medical facility in the Air Force.
- Through the course of a series of tests,
- they discovered he was HIV positive.
- The focus of his experience there
- shifted from how do we treat this illness
- to how did he become infected.
- They were very, very anxious to know.
- This is 1986, still fairly new in the epidemic.
- He admitted to his doctor finally,
- after relentless questioning, that he had had sex with men.
- I don't think even then said at the time
- he was gay to his doctor, who was a major, but a doctor.
- But that he had sex with men.
- That's all they needed to know.
- The doctor knew that Ben had a top secret security
- clearance, called our commander, told the commander that Ben had
- just acknowledged that he was homosexual
- because he had sex with men.
- Ben was, shortly after that, released from the hospital,
- sent back to Langley where he spent about two to three summer
- months in Norfolk, Virginia, or that area,
- extremely, extremely humid in the summers, on a detail.
- They were the guys who were working six days a week,
- 12 hour shifts, tearing down old barracks.
- He was a decorated non-commissioned officer.
- Had been recognized numerous times
- as a leader in our field of intelligence.
- And none of that mattered when they found out he was gay.
- And they did it to not just Ben, they
- did it to a lot of guys that were administratively
- discharged for being gay.
- They made their life hell on the way out.
- Ben Simps has subsequently died.
- His diagnosis was well into his illness,
- and it was just a couple years later he passed away
- from full blown AIDS.
- But I was concerned about what it could mean for my life
- if I was found out.
- But I wasn't afraid, because my whole social life
- I lived with gay people.
- My social life was the gay bars.
- I naively thought that being out of uniform
- and being off base and actually in a different city--
- the base is in Hampton Roads, and Norfolk
- is on the other side of the bridge tunnel.
- And In fact, for a good part of that time, early on I
- lived in an apartment just outside of base.
- I eventually moved over to Norfolk.
- So I was physically removed.
- So I had my nine to five job in the military,
- then I would go through the bridge tunnel, the Hampton
- Roads bridge tunnel, over to Norfolk.
- And that's where my gay life began after 5 o'clock.
- Naively thought that.
- I just got lucky that I didn't get caught.
- Concerned, not afraid.
- And that's the only time.
- I've never been afraid of being gay.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, thank you.
- BILL PRITCHARD: You're welcome.
- EVELYN BAILEY: It's been good.
- And Kevin is going to listen to this.
- Kevin Indivino, do you know Kevin?
- BILL PRITCHARD: Oh yes, yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And if he decides that we
- need to have an on camera interview,
- we will let you know.
- I don't know if we'll come down here.
- BILL PRITCHARD: I'm trying to get back
- to Rochester periodically.
- I made a commitment to myself.
- I'm the odd man out from my immediate family,
- even when you count my cousins.
- On my mother's side, actually even almost all of them
- on my dad's side too, they all live there.
- My parents are getting older, I have a niece and nephew there.
- So I'm trying to get back.
- So if Kevin chooses that we'd like to interview me on camera,
- we can arrange it. (Recording ends)