Audio Interview, Bob Dardano, July 30, 2011

EVELYN BAILEY: Today is July 26th,

and I'm sitting here talking to--

I just went blank.

BOB DARDANO: To me.

EVELYN BAILEY: To you.

BOB DARDANO: To me.

Bob Dardano.

EVELYN BAILEY: Bob Dardano who was involved with the Alliance

in the '80s.

And you were vice president or president.

BOB DARDANO: No.

I was on the board.

EVELYN BAILEY: You were on the board.

In 1980?

BOB DARDANO: Well, I was involved between 1981

and when I left Rochester, which would have been in late 1986.

I don't remember what years I was officially on the board.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

You were born here?

BOB DARDANO: I was actually born in Utica.

And my parents moved here when I was two.

So, obviously, they brought me along.

So I grew up here.

EVELYN BAILEY: And when you were growing up,

were you aware of your sexual orientation or did that

come later in high school, in college, and so on?

BOB DARDANO: Well, I think I started

to recognize those certain feelings around the age of ten.

Feelings for other boys, not knowing

what that was, of course, not being

able to articulate it or put a name to it or understand it.

I don't think any child of that age understands sexuality

at all.

But looking back, now I can see that I was sort of maybe

starting to have little crushes.

Or I certainly started to have crushes,

if you will, or was more interested in sort of male hero

figures on TV.

Like people sometimes ask others you know, well who

was your first celebrity crush?

Well, my first celebrity crush was William Shatner

on Star Trek.

Of course, I loved Star Trek.

I loved astronomy and science and all of that, so, you know.

He was a dashing, handsome young man.

I still think he's kind of interesting.

He's quite a character.

But yeah I started to have these feelings.

Now, that was Star Trek was on between '66 and '69.

I was born in '56, so.

EVELYN BAILEY: So.

Did you have a vocabulary?

BOB DARDANO: No.

No.

Not in those days.

The first time I heard the word homosexual,

I was in seventh grade.

And I remember, well I don't know

if it was before class, after class, during recess, whatever,

but it was not during class time.

There were a few kids sort of hanging around

in the corner of the classroom.

And I heard one of my classmates tell the others that, you know,

homosexual was the word for men who

liked other men or something.

I'm not quite sure she put it even that nicely.

But I don't think she purposely said it in a negative way.

It just sort of was a young child's way

of discovering this naughty word maybe, you know.

Now, I was not in the little group that was talking.

I kind of overheard it.

But I didn't really hear what else they were saying,

but that word penetrated.

That word hit me.

And I thought, oh, you know, is that what I am.

EVELYN BAILEY: Were you aware of negative attitudes

or positive attitudes toward homosexuals when you were?

I mean, this young lady mentioned the word.

Was there a sense of derogatory negative connotation or was it

just informational?

BOB DARDANO: Well, it was not negative from her.

I don't remember that from her.

It was almost like she'd gone to the dictionary,

you know, to find this word that maybe she

had overheard somewhere.

So this was seventh grade.

We're talking 1967, 1968 was my seventh grade year.

I was certainly aware that this was not something

that you talked about or you wanted anybody to know about.

I remember writing a little love note type of thing

to one of the boys in the neighborhood

that my father found.

Although it was folded up, he'd never actually read it.

But he was asking me what it was.

I was afraid he was going to see it.

So, I mean, yes.

Somehow you knew that this was not a good thing.

And, I can't point to a specific sermon in church or things

that people say.

But you didn't see it anywhere.

EVELYN BAILEY: Prevailing attitude was--

BOB DARDANO: This is not normal.

Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: And, of course, at that time,

it was still a diagnosable mental illness

according to the DSM III.

Because that didn't get revoked until 1973.

Did you hear anything about Stonewall in 1969?

BOB DARDANO: No.

EVELYN BAILEY: No?

BOB DARDANO: No.

Nothing.

EVELYN BAILEY: So you had not a clue?

BOB DARDANO: Not a clue.

No.

Nothing.

I mean, I suppose we could go back

through the records of the Democrat And Chronicle

and see if there was anything published.

We certainly did not read the New York Times or New York City

newspapers, of which there was only scant mention of Stonewall

anyway.

It certainly was not taught as a historical event at Cardinal

Mooney High School or in Catholic circles.

Now, Stonewall, of course, was June of '69.

I had just graduated from eighth grade

and was going to go into high school the next year.

But, my gosh, my understanding is a lot of schools

still might not even mention Stonewall

as a historical event.

EVELYN BAILEY: That's right.

BOB DARDANO: So, no.

I would have heard nothing about Stonewall.

EVELYN BAILEY: When did you then become

involved with the Gay Alliance?

Was it like political involvement first and then?

I mean, how did all of that?--

BOB DARDANO: OK.

Well, I guess I have to back up from my GAGV connection

a couple of years.

In the summer of '79, I went to graduate school

at NYU for the summer.

And that's when I would consider I came out.

In that, I started going to gay bars in New York City.

So that was the summer of '79.

Up until then through high school, through college--

I graduated from high school in '73, I graduated from U of R

in '77--

I did not date anyone.

I still had physical attractions to men.

I occasionally had emotional attractions

to one girl in high school.

And, you know, who knows, maybe there

was one other woman that I sort of felt some kind of connection

with, but no physical connection.

So I always thought, I convinced myself

that eventually I would meet a girl or woman with whom

everything would come together, emotional connection

and physical connection and that this would go away.

But that didn't happen.

Because in 1979, I went to New York, going out.

Then I ended up meeting a classmate of mine

to whom I was attracted in both ways.

And I thought, oh, so that other thing isn't going to happen.

This is sort of where I am.

I was, you know, much more comfortable with that idea

at that time.

I was twenty-three.

So that was '79.

So then by time, you know, I came back to Rochester,

you know whatever.

I got involved in GAGV in 1981.

And the reason I got involved was because I

was dating someone here.

I had started dating him in early 1981,

and he was involved in the Alliance.

And so I got involved in GAGV as a way

of having a way of spending time with him,

and a way of sharing an interest.

So that's sort of why I got involved.

Before then I was not political at all.

I wouldn't have considered myself political.

EVELYN BAILEY: Did you know about the Gay Aalliance

before then?

BOB DARDANO: I must have.

Because when I was in college at U of R,

they had the GLF, which had become

established before I actually went to school there

in September of '73.

And at some point along the way, I

don't remember which year it was,

I tend to think it was maybe sophomore or junior year that's

just a total guess, but I had heard about meetings that they

held and I was going to go to the meeting.

And I think that if I were living away--

see I lived at home, I commuted--

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

BOB DARDANO: If I lived on campus

or if I'd gone away to college, it

would have been a lot easier to go to that meeting.

But because I still lived at home, it was not.

So I recall walking up the stairway in Todd Union

and going down the corridor to the room where the meeting was

going to be held and getting scared and turning

around and leaving.

I just couldn't do it.

I also during that period was reading The Empty Closet, which

was delivered to Todd Union.

And I would go and I would very quickly snatch a copy,

throw it in my bag.

I would go into the men's room.

I would go into a stall, and I would sit and read the paper,

and then I would leave it there.

So that nobody would catch me with this newspaper.

So I must have heard about the Gay Alliance

just by reading the paper.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

Because in 1972, early '73, the Alliance

had left the University of Rochester campus.

The GLF was still in existence, but it

had taken on a less political stance

and a much more, quote unquote, "research academic venue."

Did you know Karen Hagberg?

BOB DARDANO: No.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

BOB DARDANO: Not at U of R. No.

EVELYN BAILEY: Bob Osborne?

Or Larry Fine?

BOB DARDANO: I didn't know any of them at U of R.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

You met them later perhaps.

BOB DARDANO: I probably met them later.

Or certainly learned their names later.

EVELYN BAILEY: So once you were involved with the Alliance

that was your segue into--

did you write for The Empty Closet?

BOB DARDANO: I did.

I did quite a lot actually.

EVELYN BAILEY: A column or feature?

BOB DARDANO: A column and news.

I wrote a lot.

EVELYN BAILEY: Under your own name?

BOB DARDANO: Yes.

Why not? (laughs)

EVELYN BAILEY: Well.

BOB DARDANO: I know why not, but yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

BOB DARDANO: I did.

And most of that, well, that would have been I

may have started in '81.

Certainly by '82 I was writing for The Empty Closet.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall who the editor was?

BOB DARDANO: Well, Yve Skeet was the editor much of the time

when I was doing the writing.

She was the editor for a few years, I think.

Trying to remember who was the editor beforehand.

I don't remember.

EVELYN BAILEY: Howard?

Cullen?

BOB DARDANO: I just don't know.

I was also the membership/mailing list keeper

for the EC, which in those days meant a metal box with cards

in them.

The subscribers list that was it.

I was the subscription manager.

That was my title, subscription manager.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

BOB DARDANO: So, of course, everything was analog.

You had mailing labels and things

like that to mail out the paper.

EVELYN BAILEY: I think before Yve,

Tim Mains had been editor for a couple of years.

Sue Cowell had been editor.

Holly Gerlaugh had been editor.

Yve Skeet.

Howard Cullen I think, may have come after Yve.

Of course, Jay Baker was the first editor

of The Empty Closet.

That was your segue into political activism?

BOB DARDANO: Yes.

I would say the Alliance was my segue through that.

And The Empty Closet and GAGV both.

EVELYN BAILEY: And so you became involved

with Tim's first campaign?

BOB DARDANO: Yes.

That was 1985.

In 1984, I remember working on Doug Call's campaign

for Congress.

This was when Barbara Conable, who was the long term

Congressman for this area, for the district.

I remember it was Barbara Conable and Frank Horton who

were members of Congress for a long time from Monroe County.

And Barbara Conable retired from the House

and there was an open seat in 1984, if I remember correctly.

And so the Republicans were running

Fred Eckert from Greece, I think,

and the Democrats are running Doug Call

who was a sheriff maybe from Genesee County.

And I worked on his campaign.

Because by then, I was also getting involved

in democratic politics.

I was involved in the 26th LD Committee.

So I was working for--

EVELYN BAILEY: That's infamous you know.

BOB DARDANO: --for Doug Call.

Really?

EVELYN BAILEY: The 26th LD.

BOB DARDANO: I don't know if the boundaries are the same,

but this is-- see, at that point,

I moved out of my parents' house in '84.

I lived on Lake Avenue near Birr Street near Nazareth High

School from '84 through '86.

And so that was in the Maplewood neighborhood.

That was in the 26th LD.

Phil Fedele was the chair.

EVELYN BAILEY: It's been a very active legislative district

forever.

BOB DARDANO: Yeah.

So I don't remember what prompted me to go to a meeting

there for the first time or whatever,

but by '84 I was involved.

And so I was working on that congressional campaign,

which Fred Eckert won.

So then the following year was Tim's first run

for city council.

And I was the field director for his campaign, which

meant I was in charge of people walking door to door,

the field operation.

And now, you know, that campaign was run out of his house

on Pearl Street.

And I think there was a room upstairs where

we had maps of the various parts of the city.

And as people walked a block, we would mark it off

in a black marker.

You know, people would come in.

I would give them their campaign literature,

give them maps, and tell them where to go.

You know a little script of what to say.

And they were knocking on doors, and giving out

campaign literature.

So we kept track of all that.

And we had a plan.

We, you know, had decided which parts of the city

we were going to target and in which order.

And by and large, we accomplished

our goal of covering the city the way we wanted to.

And then, you know, the election results are history.

You know, came in, he was ahead by eleven

votes on election night.

There were all these, they weren't

disputed ballots, what do they call them, provisional ballots

from people who had cast ballots who were not maybe on the voter

rolls.

And they were paper ballots that the two elections

commissioners, one from each party,

had to decide whether or not this envelope should be opened

and the vote counted.

And so we went to that session, which was a public meeting,

and, you know, watched as they decided

this envelope would be counted, this envelope would not.

And as the envelopes were opened and the votes read off,

you know, Tim's eleven vote lead turned into a deficit

at one point.

EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, wow.

BOB DARDANO: Now remember, he was fighting

for the fifth and final spot with Bev Jackson who

was the leading Republican vote getter.

But at the end of the day, the eleven vote margin

he started with was the eleven vote margin he ended up with.

It all sort of balanced out and that was it.

EVELYN BAILEY: Now, Sue Cowell was his campaign manager.

BOB DARDANO: Yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: Is that where you and Sue met?

BOB DARDANO: No.

I think, I probably met her here at GAGV.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

BOB DARDANO: Yes.

I mean, I also in my work, if you will,

at GAGV, I mean, I was involved with, what's it called,

the political caucus.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.

BOB DARDANO: Rosemary Cahill, John Noble

were, pardon the pun, notable in running and operating.

Where we had candidate questionnaires that went out.

Very few people, of course, returned them in those days.

And, you know, we rated candidates or whatever.

But we were also a meeting place where

people could come and sort of, you know, learn about politics

and get involved.

So I was doing that at GAGV as well as the outside--

EVELYN BAILEY: Now, my memory and my dates may not be right.

That was after Midge Costanza, well after--

BOB DARDANO: Yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: Midge.

BOB DARDANO: Yes, because Midge was, of course,

she left Rochester to be Jimmy Carter's special assistant.

He was president in the late '70s.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

BOB DARDANO: So that was all done.

EVELYN BAILEY: Who was president in the late 80s?

Was it Reagan?

BOB DARDANO: Oh president of the United States?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

BOB DARDANO: He became president in 1980 or was elected in '80.

So for the next eight years.

EVELYN BAILEY: And he served two terms?

BOB DARDANO: Yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

So in '88, that was the end of his second term.

And then it went to?

BOB DARDANO: George H.W. Bush.

I had already moved to Washington at that point.

EVELYN BAILEY: Thank goodness.

BOB DARDANO: I remember Mary Lou Wells.

Do you remember her?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.

BOB DARDANO: She either had a button

or she had a little saying that she liked to say.

That instead of saying Ronald Reagan, it was Ronnie Rayguns.

Because, of course, he was a proponent of Star Wars defense

system, and sort of seen as rather

belligerent and saber rattling.

But Mary Lou Wells, her partner Elaine--

EVELYN BAILEY: Smith.

BOB DARDANO: Elaine Smith was it?

And they were both officers of GAGV.

What was his name?

Was it Mike?

Big guy, dark, curly hair.

I think he was president when I first started.

EVELYN BAILEY: Mike Ferrino?

BOB DARDANO: No.

There was Ron Ferrino?

EVELYN BAILEY: Ron Ferrino.

BOB DARDANO: And he was--

EVELYN BAILEY: Michael Robertson?

BOB DARDANO: Maybe.

Was that his name?

I don't know.

I seem to remember last name beginning with a W.

I don't know.

EVELYN BAILEY: Well, Whitey.

was president initially.

BOB DARDANO: Whitey LeBlanc was before.

EVELYN BAILEY: Then Michael.

BOB DARDANO: Then Michael, yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: Then, I think, Pat Collins.

After Mary Lou Wells and Horace Lethbridge?

BOB DARDANO: Horace Lethbridge, yes.

He was president when I was still here.

Then Claire Parker, I think, somewhere.

I think she may have been president when I left.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

She became president '89, '90.

BOB DARDANO: All right.

I was gone by then.

EVELYN BAILEY: But she chaired the picnic

for five years prior.

BOB DARDANO: And I always worked the GAGV table at the picnic.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

BOB DARDANO: And in those days, that's

all there was the picnic.

Of course, it was a big deal for us.

I know now it's a whole week of events.

And the parade I think is terrific.

I actually got to march in the parade.

Well, I rode in the parade here one time.

I happened to be in town the weekend

the parade was taking place.

This probably was somewhere in the '90s.

I know it started in '92 or so.

But in the late 90s, I went to watch the parade.

And a friend of mine was on a float with some drag queens.

And they were throwing beads.

Anyway, something that shouldn't have fallen out of the truck

fell out onto the street.

And I ran and picked it up to hand it and give it back

to them, and they just pulled me up on truck.

So I ended up riding in the parade throwing beads

out, which was a lot of fun.

I always march in the Washington D.C. parade,

which is a lot of fun as well.

EVELYN BAILEY: 1993.

BOB DARDANO: No.

EVELYN BAILEY: The gay pride parade?

BOB DARDANO: Gay pride parades.

Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: Now, Bill Valenti identifies

June of '81 as the first time he identified AIDS as being

a disease in this community.

He apparently had a patient.

But in '86, AIDS Rochester began.

And shortly after that HPA began.

BOB DARDANO: I don't know what that is.

EVELYN BAILEY: Helping People With AIDS.

BOB DARDANO: OK.

EVELYN BAILEY: With Tony Green and--

BOB DARDANO: Tony Green.

EVELYN BAILEY: Jim Black.

BOB DARDANO: Yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: And--

BOB DARDANO: Tony Green I remember.

EVELYN BAILEY: Jackie Nudd.

BOB DARDANO: Jackie, of course.

Jackie was president.

And at that time when I was involved, too.

She and I were on our radio show together.

I'll tell you that after we talk about this, but yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: So when AIDS first

hit this community in any visible way,

what response was there?

What did you think?

What did people think?

It was primarily focused at men.

BOB DARDANO: Yeah, sure.

I don't really remember talking about it too much.

I think I first heard about it myself,

I mean, or really thought about it by maybe '83 or so.

Sure there were some cases before then,

but it didn't really penetrate the consciousness, you know,

for a little bit.

So I know that Jackie became involved with AIDS Rochester.

EVELYN BAILEY: She became--

BOB DARDANO: Sue Cowell as well.

EVELYN BAILEY: --director.

As

BOB DARDANO: That's right.

She was director.

Yeah, I never got involved with the efforts against AIDS.

I sort of kept on the side the political, nondiscrimination,

that sort of politics.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

I mentioned Tony Green, and you said, oh, yes.

BOB DARDANO: Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: Were you a Friars member?

BOB DARDANO: Well, I remember him from there.

And then I remember him from his activism, with,

you know, regarding AIDS.

Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

Were you a spokesperson for the Gay Alliance when

you were on the radio show?

BOB DARDANO: Well, I don't remember

whose radio show it was.

I remember that Jackie and I were

going there to represent, yes, the Alliance and gays

and lesbians.

We would represent everybody.

You know?

Because, of course, we all think the same.

So to have two people on a show, you've

covered everybody, right?

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

BOB DARDANO: So I don't remember where it was, who it was.

The thing that I remember most clearly,

which is kind of funny, about this is that--

EVELYN BAILEY: It was a radio show.

BOB DARDANO: It was a radio show.

Now, I didn't want my name used for some reason.

Jackie, of course, was already president of the Alliance.

So she was public.

So we had told the guy that, you know,

I was not going to use my real name.

So he introduced us.

And he introduced Jackie, and then he introduced me.

And he said a man blah blah, blah, blah.

We'll call him Bob, which, of course, is my name.

So that was always kind of funny that we're

going to pretend that's not my name, but that's my name.

You know.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall the conversation being

about, perhaps, the Alliance wanting

to hold its annual dinner at the Chamber of Commerce?

BOB DARDANO: I don't think so.

I think it was very basic, you know, homosexuality 101,

you know--

EVELYN BAILEY: WCNF?

BOB DARDANO: I don't remember.

EVELYN BAILEY: Was it late at night?

BOB DARDANO: It wasn't late at night.

I don't believe it was late at night.

Might have been evening.

EVELYN BAILEY: Because we had a radio

show Green Thursday early on.

But it wasn't that?

BOB DARDANO: Yeah.

No.

I think this was some, I don't remember what kind of show

it was.

I'm not even sure.

Go back and look at The Empty Closet records

and see how it was reported, if we reported it.

EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, I'm sure we did.

BOB DARDANO: But it was Jackie and me.

And it was kind of interesting, you know.

Because Jackie's voice was rather deep.

You know?

It was probably deeper than mine.

So it may have confused people listening on the radio.

But, I mean, looking back I can smile and say, you know,

that that was fun, but--

EVELYN BAILEY: It was scary.

BOB DARDANO: Well, it was scary.

It was nerve wracking, because you are, wrongly, of course,

but you are representing a whole community, you know, in this.

At that era when there were so few voices

that the general public would listen to

or wanted to hear from, you really

did feel like you had to say only the right things

and make everything look wonderful.

EVELYN BAILEY: Wonderful.

BOB DARDANO: You know?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

BOB DARDANO: But you would never today

say, well, we're going to take two white people

and say that a lesbian and a gay man that they "represent

the community", quote unquote.

You know?

EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hmm.

Was Anita Bryant and the Save the Children campaign

a part of your?

BOB DARDANO: I think that was before.

And you mentioned the dinner with the Chamber

of Commerce issue.

I believe that was '83, and that was the spark that

led to the city council passing its nondiscrimination

ordinance.

That was in December of '83.

I wrote a long article about that, basically,

quoting, recounting everything that happened at that meeting.

That was one of those deals where you sign up

to speak before the council, and, of course,

the other side managed to scoop up most of the spots.

We won that vote seven to one, if I recall.

Nine members of the council, right?

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

BOB DARDANO: We won seven to one.

There was one abstention.

I think there was one abstention.

John Curran voted no.

And he said that he was only voting

no because he didn't agree with the process by which it had all

come up, you know, whatever.

But all the others voted yes.

And what kind of set that in motion that night,

and who knows, I don't know how the council members discussed

all this meetings just among themselves beforehand,

but the citizens got up to speak.

Then it came time for vote.

Council members would speak from the dais

and then cast their vote.

The first one was Ruth Scott who was

an African-American at-large member.

She may have been vice mayor at the time.

I don't recall.

But, anyway, we weren't sure where

she was on this vote before the meeting.

And she said as much in her remarks

that she wasn't sure how she was going to vote on this.

But after hearing all of the hate filled remarks

by so many people, she realized that a nondiscrimination

ordinance was necessary.

And so she voted yes.

And who knows that yes vote from a person who has non-committed,

you know, beforehand may have influenced other people as they

cast their votes down the dais.

I don't know.

They may have already decided they were voting yes,

but we'll never know.

But seven to one, we won.

EVELYN BAILEY: Talk to me a little bit

about the obvious hatred vehemently

aggressive presentations in that chamber.

I was there.

BOB DARDANO: Well, to be honest, I mean, I'd

like to have that issue of The Empty Closet right

here in front of me, probably the January issue of '84,

where I probably quoted all those people.

But it was, you know, Macaluso and the Citizens

for a Decent Society, I believe, was their name.

And so it was all religion based, as it is today.

Not a whole lot has changed in that regard.

No one can come up with a logical reason, a civic reason,

you know, to deny employment rights

or to deny equal marriage rights,

you knoe, Sometimes I think I wish

I had one of those gongs or buzzers,

and any time you mention religion or God or the Bible,

you know, as your rationale going to buzz you.

No.

We're not talking about that.

We're talking about civil rights.

We're talking about religious rights.

EVELYN BAILEY: Had you heard that kind of vehement

diatribe before?

BOB DARDANO: I had heard slurs.

I don't recall hearing that kind of thing spoken from the pulpit

at my church, Catholic church, to be honest.

I don't remember that.

EVELYN BAILEY: I do think hearing the hatred,

seeing the people who are saying those words does impact one's

psyche, and makes one perhaps not feel as comfortable as one

might feel in other circumstances.

But certainly, the truth comes out

in terms of how people really feel.

BOB DARDANO: Yes, that's true.

And it cuts both ways.

To the uncertain gay or lesbian person,

often youth, hearing that kind of vitriol

can have a very negative impact.

To outside straight society with no skin in the game one

way or the other hearing that vitriol-- you know,

in effect that becomes one of our best friends.

Because that vitriol turns off people

who normally wouldn't care, turns them

into allies, defenders of us.

Especially as the years have gone

on as more and more of those people who wouldn't have cared

one way or the other found out that they have gay family

members or a lesbian neighbor or someone at work, you know.

Coming out was the key.

It remains the key to all of this.

I like to say that it was very easy for the right wing, put it

all under one big rubric of right wing,

it was very easy for the right wing

to keep society in an anti-gay, you know, frame of mind

when the only gay people that existed

were the very effeminate drag queen and the very masculine,

you know, butch lesbian.

Because it was easy because you could see them.

You could identify them.

You could point them out.

And you knew you didn't have anybody

in your family like that.

No one on your street was like that.

Those people were over there somewhere.

So it was very easy to discriminate against them.

You didn't know any of them.

But once people started coming out,

suddenly, it's the guy at the grocery store, you know.

It's the neighbor downstairs with her woman friend

who you thought was just a friend and their two children.

You know, it's a real person.

Oh, and it's now it's my child, or my brother, or my cousin.

You know-- and we look normal.

And, suddenly, it's not just them.

It's us.

And that broke down all the doors.

And the right wing tried the same thing with marriage.

As long as none of us could get married, it was so easy to say,

if they get married all these bad things will happen.

OK?

Of course, there was nothing to test that.

So it was easy for people to continue to believe that.

Once people started getting married,

once the dam was broken, suddenly, well, no, the world

didn't end.

Everything is still normal.

Everything's still fine.

Nothing bad happened.

And so you've seen an incredible rise

in the number of people supporting marriage equality.

So coming out in every way has been the salvation

of the GLBT community.

EVELYN BAILEY: Looking back over your years here

in Rochester and your years away from Rochester, what

are you most proud of, Bob?

BOB DARDANO: Well, I'm proud of some of the things

that I've been able to do for the community.

I worked hard here in Rochester.

I worked hard on the '83 effort to get that ordinance passed.

I did win the Vinnie Cup in 1984.

So I do have a nice little trophy,

which was a great honor to get.

Having that success in '83 made me

think that it was going to be easy to move on

to the next step.

And it certainly was not. because The Monroe County

legislature was not in any way interested in passing

the same kind of ordinance or nondiscrimination legislation.

Then, you know, Tim's campaign in '85

was a real high point for everybody.

There was something in one of these articles

recently the first gay man elected

in New York state or whatever.

But it was really more than that.

You know, we think he was the first gay person

to win election to an at-large seat.

You know, Harvey Milk in San Francisco

had tried a few times to win election

to the county board of supervisors

when they were all elected at-large.

And he was unable to win.

After they changed the rules and created districts,

that's when he won.

He was able to win that Castro neighborhood district.

So yeah.

He was in office before, but it was a district office.

Tim may well have been the first person

to be elected as an at-large candidate anywhere.

So that was a big deal.

EVELYN BAILEY: That was major.

BOB DARDANO: Yeah.

And then the following year in '86,

I worked on Louise Slaughter's first campaign for Congress

when she was challenging that incumbent Fred Eckert.

And I was 26th LD coordinator for her campaign.

She won fifty-one- forty-nine.

So, of course, I take all the credit for that.

So those were highlights.

I loved working on The Empty Closet.

I liked writing my column.

I liked the news reporting aspect of it in Washington.

Well, back in the '90s, I was officer

of two of the major political organizations

there, Gertrude Stein Democratic Club, Gay and Lesbian Activist

Alliance, which is nonpartisan.

So I'm proud of that.

And, perhaps, most proud in D.C.,

that I was one of the founders of our GLBT employees group

at work, which is the Library of Congress Gay, Lesbian,

or Bisexual Employees Organization.

So that's LC GLOBE.

We chose the name to sort of be affiliated with the Federal

Globe.

Which, as you may know, is an umbrella group

for all of the federal government agencies

organizations, which are all like little globes.

There's transportation globe and all of this.

Department of Interior and whatever.

So we established LC GLOBE in 1994.

When I got to the Library of Congress,

I was shocked that with all of the obviously gay and lesbian

people there not only was there no organization,

but everyone was very quiet about that.

I recall reading the Washington Blade at my desk

on two separate occasions where two older more closeted gay men

came by.

And I remember one of them saying, he looked at me

and he looked at the paper and he said, "my, aren't we bold."

(Bailey laughs) And he sort of walked off.

Because they weren't out.

I mean, they were obvious.

Anybody who knew any gay people would

know that these guys were gay.

So I had two people react to me that way.

And I thought, well, how can there not be an organization.

So I put out a call for people to get together.

And I was shocked went over 100 people showed up.

There was this pent up need to have

a place where everybody could be together and talk about that.

So that was '94.

So we're almost twenty years there.

I've been chairperson of that group five times

over the years.

So, you know, we've had some great speakers and events

and all that stuff that comes with an organization like that.

So yeah, I'm very proud of having done that.

EVELYN BAILEY: That's incredible.

I had no idea.

BOB DARDANO: Oh, well there you go.

Well that's not in Shoulders To Stand On because that

happened after I left. (laughs)

EVELYN BAILEY: Well, but more and more, Rochester and the Gay

Alliance have been training grounds for political activists

and people who became involved in activism

within their own sphere of influence.

I mean, so in many ways what you went through here

and what you did here and what you

experienced laid the foundation for what you would do later.

BOB DARDANO: That's true.

And there was one major disappointment

in making that move and transition.

Yes, I continued with the gay activism stuff.

I went to D.C. thinking, well, I was