Audio Interview, Bob Dardano, July 30, 2011
- EVELYN BAILEY: Today is July 26th,
- and I'm sitting here talking to--
- I just went blank.
- BOB DARDANO: To me.
- EVELYN BAILEY: To you.
- BOB DARDANO: To me.
- Bob Dardano.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Bob Dardano who was involved with the Alliance
- in the '80s.
- And you were vice president or president.
- BOB DARDANO: No.
- I was on the board.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You were on the board.
- In 1980?
- BOB DARDANO: Well, I was involved between 1981
- and when I left Rochester, which would have been in late 1986.
- I don't remember what years I was officially on the board.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- You were born here?
- BOB DARDANO: I was actually born in Utica.
- And my parents moved here when I was two.
- So, obviously, they brought me along.
- So I grew up here.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And when you were growing up,
- were you aware of your sexual orientation or did that
- come later in high school, in college, and so on?
- BOB DARDANO: Well, I think I started
- to recognize those certain feelings around the age of ten.
- Feelings for other boys, not knowing
- what that was, of course, not being
- able to articulate it or put a name to it or understand it.
- I don't think any child of that age understands sexuality
- at all.
- But looking back, now I can see that I was sort of maybe
- starting to have little crushes.
- Or I certainly started to have crushes,
- if you will, or was more interested in sort of male hero
- figures on TV.
- Like people sometimes ask others you know, well who
- was your first celebrity crush?
- Well, my first celebrity crush was William Shatner
- on Star Trek.
- Of course, I loved Star Trek.
- I loved astronomy and science and all of that, so, you know.
- He was a dashing, handsome young man.
- I still think he's kind of interesting.
- He's quite a character.
- But yeah I started to have these feelings.
- Now, that was Star Trek was on between '66 and '69.
- I was born in '56, so.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So.
- Did you have a vocabulary?
- BOB DARDANO: No.
- No.
- Not in those days.
- The first time I heard the word homosexual,
- I was in seventh grade.
- And I remember, well I don't know
- if it was before class, after class, during recess, whatever,
- but it was not during class time.
- There were a few kids sort of hanging around
- in the corner of the classroom.
- And I heard one of my classmates tell the others that, you know,
- homosexual was the word for men who
- liked other men or something.
- I'm not quite sure she put it even that nicely.
- But I don't think she purposely said it in a negative way.
- It just sort of was a young child's way
- of discovering this naughty word maybe, you know.
- Now, I was not in the little group that was talking.
- I kind of overheard it.
- But I didn't really hear what else they were saying,
- but that word penetrated.
- That word hit me.
- And I thought, oh, you know, is that what I am.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Were you aware of negative attitudes
- or positive attitudes toward homosexuals when you were?
- I mean, this young lady mentioned the word.
- Was there a sense of derogatory negative connotation or was it
- just informational?
- BOB DARDANO: Well, it was not negative from her.
- I don't remember that from her.
- It was almost like she'd gone to the dictionary,
- you know, to find this word that maybe she
- had overheard somewhere.
- So this was seventh grade.
- We're talking 1967, 1968 was my seventh grade year.
- I was certainly aware that this was not something
- that you talked about or you wanted anybody to know about.
- I remember writing a little love note type of thing
- to one of the boys in the neighborhood
- that my father found.
- Although it was folded up, he'd never actually read it.
- But he was asking me what it was.
- I was afraid he was going to see it.
- So, I mean, yes.
- Somehow you knew that this was not a good thing.
- And, I can't point to a specific sermon in church or things
- that people say.
- But you didn't see it anywhere.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Prevailing attitude was--
- BOB DARDANO: This is not normal.
- Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And, of course, at that time,
- it was still a diagnosable mental illness
- according to the DSM III.
- Because that didn't get revoked until 1973.
- Did you hear anything about Stonewall in 1969?
- BOB DARDANO: No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: No?
- BOB DARDANO: No.
- Nothing.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So you had not a clue?
- BOB DARDANO: Not a clue.
- No.
- Nothing.
- I mean, I suppose we could go back
- through the records of the Democrat And Chronicle
- and see if there was anything published.
- We certainly did not read the New York Times or New York City
- newspapers, of which there was only scant mention of Stonewall
- anyway.
- It certainly was not taught as a historical event at Cardinal
- Mooney High School or in Catholic circles.
- Now, Stonewall, of course, was June of '69.
- I had just graduated from eighth grade
- and was going to go into high school the next year.
- But, my gosh, my understanding is a lot of schools
- still might not even mention Stonewall
- as a historical event.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That's right.
- BOB DARDANO: So, no.
- I would have heard nothing about Stonewall.
- EVELYN BAILEY: When did you then become
- involved with the Gay Alliance?
- Was it like political involvement first and then?
- I mean, how did all of that?--
- BOB DARDANO: OK.
- Well, I guess I have to back up from my GAGV connection
- a couple of years.
- In the summer of '79, I went to graduate school
- at NYU for the summer.
- And that's when I would consider I came out.
- In that, I started going to gay bars in New York City.
- So that was the summer of '79.
- Up until then through high school, through college--
- I graduated from high school in '73, I graduated from U of R
- in '77--
- I did not date anyone.
- I still had physical attractions to men.
- I occasionally had emotional attractions
- to one girl in high school.
- And, you know, who knows, maybe there
- was one other woman that I sort of felt some kind of connection
- with, but no physical connection.
- So I always thought, I convinced myself
- that eventually I would meet a girl or woman with whom
- everything would come together, emotional connection
- and physical connection and that this would go away.
- But that didn't happen.
- Because in 1979, I went to New York, going out.
- Then I ended up meeting a classmate of mine
- to whom I was attracted in both ways.
- And I thought, oh, so that other thing isn't going to happen.
- This is sort of where I am.
- I was, you know, much more comfortable with that idea
- at that time.
- I was twenty-three.
- So that was '79.
- So then by time, you know, I came back to Rochester,
- you know whatever.
- I got involved in GAGV in 1981.
- And the reason I got involved was because I
- was dating someone here.
- I had started dating him in early 1981,
- and he was involved in the Alliance.
- And so I got involved in GAGV as a way
- of having a way of spending time with him,
- and a way of sharing an interest.
- So that's sort of why I got involved.
- Before then I was not political at all.
- I wouldn't have considered myself political.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did you know about the Gay Aalliance
- before then?
- BOB DARDANO: I must have.
- Because when I was in college at U of R,
- they had the GLF, which had become
- established before I actually went to school there
- in September of '73.
- And at some point along the way, I
- don't remember which year it was,
- I tend to think it was maybe sophomore or junior year that's
- just a total guess, but I had heard about meetings that they
- held and I was going to go to the meeting.
- And I think that if I were living away--
- see I lived at home, I commuted--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- BOB DARDANO: If I lived on campus
- or if I'd gone away to college, it
- would have been a lot easier to go to that meeting.
- But because I still lived at home, it was not.
- So I recall walking up the stairway in Todd Union
- and going down the corridor to the room where the meeting was
- going to be held and getting scared and turning
- around and leaving.
- I just couldn't do it.
- I also during that period was reading The Empty Closet, which
- was delivered to Todd Union.
- And I would go and I would very quickly snatch a copy,
- throw it in my bag.
- I would go into the men's room.
- I would go into a stall, and I would sit and read the paper,
- and then I would leave it there.
- So that nobody would catch me with this newspaper.
- So I must have heard about the Gay Alliance
- just by reading the paper.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- Because in 1972, early '73, the Alliance
- had left the University of Rochester campus.
- The GLF was still in existence, but it
- had taken on a less political stance
- and a much more, quote unquote, "research academic venue."
- Did you know Karen Hagberg?
- BOB DARDANO: No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- BOB DARDANO: Not at U of R. No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Bob Osborne?
- Or Larry Fine?
- BOB DARDANO: I didn't know any of them at U of R.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- You met them later perhaps.
- BOB DARDANO: I probably met them later.
- Or certainly learned their names later.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So once you were involved with the Alliance
- that was your segue into--
- did you write for The Empty Closet?
- BOB DARDANO: I did.
- I did quite a lot actually.
- EVELYN BAILEY: A column or feature?
- BOB DARDANO: A column and news.
- I wrote a lot.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Under your own name?
- BOB DARDANO: Yes.
- Why not? (laughs)
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well.
- BOB DARDANO: I know why not, but yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- BOB DARDANO: I did.
- And most of that, well, that would have been I
- may have started in '81.
- Certainly by '82 I was writing for The Empty Closet.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall who the editor was?
- BOB DARDANO: Well, Yve Skeet was the editor much of the time
- when I was doing the writing.
- She was the editor for a few years, I think.
- Trying to remember who was the editor beforehand.
- I don't remember.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Howard?
- Cullen?
- BOB DARDANO: I just don't know.
- I was also the membership/mailing list keeper
- for the EC, which in those days meant a metal box with cards
- in them.
- The subscribers list that was it.
- I was the subscription manager.
- That was my title, subscription manager.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- BOB DARDANO: So, of course, everything was analog.
- You had mailing labels and things
- like that to mail out the paper.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I think before Yve,
- Tim Mains had been editor for a couple of years.
- Sue Cowell had been editor.
- Holly Gerlaugh had been editor.
- Yve Skeet.
- Howard Cullen I think, may have come after Yve.
- Of course, Jay Baker was the first editor
- of The Empty Closet.
- That was your segue into political activism?
- BOB DARDANO: Yes.
- I would say the Alliance was my segue through that.
- And The Empty Closet and GAGV both.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And so you became involved
- with Tim's first campaign?
- BOB DARDANO: Yes.
- That was 1985.
- In 1984, I remember working on Doug Call's campaign
- for Congress.
- This was when Barbara Conable, who was the long term
- Congressman for this area, for the district.
- I remember it was Barbara Conable and Frank Horton who
- were members of Congress for a long time from Monroe County.
- And Barbara Conable retired from the House
- and there was an open seat in 1984, if I remember correctly.
- And so the Republicans were running
- Fred Eckert from Greece, I think,
- and the Democrats are running Doug Call
- who was a sheriff maybe from Genesee County.
- And I worked on his campaign.
- Because by then, I was also getting involved
- in democratic politics.
- I was involved in the 26th LD Committee.
- So I was working for--
- EVELYN BAILEY: That's infamous you know.
- BOB DARDANO: --for Doug Call.
- Really?
- EVELYN BAILEY: The 26th LD.
- BOB DARDANO: I don't know if the boundaries are the same,
- but this is-- see, at that point,
- I moved out of my parents' house in '84.
- I lived on Lake Avenue near Birr Street near Nazareth High
- School from '84 through '86.
- And so that was in the Maplewood neighborhood.
- That was in the 26th LD.
- Phil Fedele was the chair.
- EVELYN BAILEY: It's been a very active legislative district
- forever.
- BOB DARDANO: Yeah.
- So I don't remember what prompted me to go to a meeting
- there for the first time or whatever,
- but by '84 I was involved.
- And so I was working on that congressional campaign,
- which Fred Eckert won.
- So then the following year was Tim's first run
- for city council.
- And I was the field director for his campaign, which
- meant I was in charge of people walking door to door,
- the field operation.
- And now, you know, that campaign was run out of his house
- on Pearl Street.
- And I think there was a room upstairs where
- we had maps of the various parts of the city.
- And as people walked a block, we would mark it off
- in a black marker.
- You know, people would come in.
- I would give them their campaign literature,
- give them maps, and tell them where to go.
- You know a little script of what to say.
- And they were knocking on doors, and giving out
- campaign literature.
- So we kept track of all that.
- And we had a plan.
- We, you know, had decided which parts of the city
- we were going to target and in which order.
- And by and large, we accomplished
- our goal of covering the city the way we wanted to.
- And then, you know, the election results are history.
- You know, came in, he was ahead by eleven
- votes on election night.
- There were all these, they weren't
- disputed ballots, what do they call them, provisional ballots
- from people who had cast ballots who were not maybe on the voter
- rolls.
- And they were paper ballots that the two elections
- commissioners, one from each party,
- had to decide whether or not this envelope should be opened
- and the vote counted.
- And so we went to that session, which was a public meeting,
- and, you know, watched as they decided
- this envelope would be counted, this envelope would not.
- And as the envelopes were opened and the votes read off,
- you know, Tim's eleven vote lead turned into a deficit
- at one point.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, wow.
- BOB DARDANO: Now remember, he was fighting
- for the fifth and final spot with Bev Jackson who
- was the leading Republican vote getter.
- But at the end of the day, the eleven vote margin
- he started with was the eleven vote margin he ended up with.
- It all sort of balanced out and that was it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, Sue Cowell was his campaign manager.
- BOB DARDANO: Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Is that where you and Sue met?
- BOB DARDANO: No.
- I think, I probably met her here at GAGV.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- BOB DARDANO: Yes.
- I mean, I also in my work, if you will,
- at GAGV, I mean, I was involved with, what's it called,
- the political caucus.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- BOB DARDANO: Rosemary Cahill, John Noble
- were, pardon the pun, notable in running and operating.
- Where we had candidate questionnaires that went out.
- Very few people, of course, returned them in those days.
- And, you know, we rated candidates or whatever.
- But we were also a meeting place where
- people could come and sort of, you know, learn about politics
- and get involved.
- So I was doing that at GAGV as well as the outside--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, my memory and my dates may not be right.
- That was after Midge Costanza, well after--
- BOB DARDANO: Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Midge.
- BOB DARDANO: Yes, because Midge was, of course,
- she left Rochester to be Jimmy Carter's special assistant.
- He was president in the late '70s.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- BOB DARDANO: So that was all done.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Who was president in the late 80s?
- Was it Reagan?
- BOB DARDANO: Oh president of the United States?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- BOB DARDANO: He became president in 1980 or was elected in '80.
- So for the next eight years.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And he served two terms?
- BOB DARDANO: Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- So in '88, that was the end of his second term.
- And then it went to?
- BOB DARDANO: George H.W. Bush.
- I had already moved to Washington at that point.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Thank goodness.
- BOB DARDANO: I remember Mary Lou Wells.
- Do you remember her?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- BOB DARDANO: She either had a button
- or she had a little saying that she liked to say.
- That instead of saying Ronald Reagan, it was Ronnie Rayguns.
- Because, of course, he was a proponent of Star Wars defense
- system, and sort of seen as rather
- belligerent and saber rattling.
- But Mary Lou Wells, her partner Elaine--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Smith.
- BOB DARDANO: Elaine Smith was it?
- And they were both officers of GAGV.
- What was his name?
- Was it Mike?
- Big guy, dark, curly hair.
- I think he was president when I first started.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Mike Ferrino?
- BOB DARDANO: No.
- There was Ron Ferrino?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Ron Ferrino.
- BOB DARDANO: And he was--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Michael Robertson?
- BOB DARDANO: Maybe.
- Was that his name?
- I don't know.
- I seem to remember last name beginning with a W.
- I don't know.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, Whitey.
- was president initially.
- BOB DARDANO: Whitey LeBlanc was before.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Then Michael.
- BOB DARDANO: Then Michael, yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Then, I think, Pat Collins.
- After Mary Lou Wells and Horace Lethbridge?
- BOB DARDANO: Horace Lethbridge, yes.
- He was president when I was still here.
- Then Claire Parker, I think, somewhere.
- I think she may have been president when I left.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- She became president '89, '90.
- BOB DARDANO: All right.
- I was gone by then.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But she chaired the picnic
- for five years prior.
- BOB DARDANO: And I always worked the GAGV table at the picnic.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- BOB DARDANO: And in those days, that's
- all there was the picnic.
- Of course, it was a big deal for us.
- I know now it's a whole week of events.
- And the parade I think is terrific.
- I actually got to march in the parade.
- Well, I rode in the parade here one time.
- I happened to be in town the weekend
- the parade was taking place.
- This probably was somewhere in the '90s.
- I know it started in '92 or so.
- But in the late 90s, I went to watch the parade.
- And a friend of mine was on a float with some drag queens.
- And they were throwing beads.
- Anyway, something that shouldn't have fallen out of the truck
- fell out onto the street.
- And I ran and picked it up to hand it and give it back
- to them, and they just pulled me up on truck.
- So I ended up riding in the parade throwing beads
- out, which was a lot of fun.
- I always march in the Washington D.C. parade,
- which is a lot of fun as well.
- EVELYN BAILEY: 1993.
- BOB DARDANO: No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The gay pride parade?
- BOB DARDANO: Gay pride parades.
- Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, Bill Valenti identifies
- June of '81 as the first time he identified AIDS as being
- a disease in this community.
- He apparently had a patient.
- But in '86, AIDS Rochester began.
- And shortly after that HPA began.
- BOB DARDANO: I don't know what that is.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Helping People With AIDS.
- BOB DARDANO: OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: With Tony Green and--
- BOB DARDANO: Tony Green.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Jim Black.
- BOB DARDANO: Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And--
- BOB DARDANO: Tony Green I remember.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Jackie Nudd.
- BOB DARDANO: Jackie, of course.
- Jackie was president.
- And at that time when I was involved, too.
- She and I were on our radio show together.
- I'll tell you that after we talk about this, but yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So when AIDS first
- hit this community in any visible way,
- what response was there?
- What did you think?
- What did people think?
- It was primarily focused at men.
- BOB DARDANO: Yeah, sure.
- I don't really remember talking about it too much.
- I think I first heard about it myself,
- I mean, or really thought about it by maybe '83 or so.
- Sure there were some cases before then,
- but it didn't really penetrate the consciousness, you know,
- for a little bit.
- So I know that Jackie became involved with AIDS Rochester.
- EVELYN BAILEY: She became--
- BOB DARDANO: Sue Cowell as well.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --director.
- As
- BOB DARDANO: That's right.
- She was director.
- Yeah, I never got involved with the efforts against AIDS.
- I sort of kept on the side the political, nondiscrimination,
- that sort of politics.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- I mentioned Tony Green, and you said, oh, yes.
- BOB DARDANO: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Were you a Friars member?
- BOB DARDANO: Well, I remember him from there.
- And then I remember him from his activism, with,
- you know, regarding AIDS.
- Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- Were you a spokesperson for the Gay Alliance when
- you were on the radio show?
- BOB DARDANO: Well, I don't remember
- whose radio show it was.
- I remember that Jackie and I were
- going there to represent, yes, the Alliance and gays
- and lesbians.
- We would represent everybody.
- You know?
- Because, of course, we all think the same.
- So to have two people on a show, you've
- covered everybody, right?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- BOB DARDANO: So I don't remember where it was, who it was.
- The thing that I remember most clearly,
- which is kind of funny, about this is that--
- EVELYN BAILEY: It was a radio show.
- BOB DARDANO: It was a radio show.
- Now, I didn't want my name used for some reason.
- Jackie, of course, was already president of the Alliance.
- So she was public.
- So we had told the guy that, you know,
- I was not going to use my real name.
- So he introduced us.
- And he introduced Jackie, and then he introduced me.
- And he said a man blah blah, blah, blah.
- We'll call him Bob, which, of course, is my name.
- So that was always kind of funny that we're
- going to pretend that's not my name, but that's my name.
- You know.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall the conversation being
- about, perhaps, the Alliance wanting
- to hold its annual dinner at the Chamber of Commerce?
- BOB DARDANO: I don't think so.
- I think it was very basic, you know, homosexuality 101,
- you know--
- EVELYN BAILEY: WCNF?
- BOB DARDANO: I don't remember.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Was it late at night?
- BOB DARDANO: It wasn't late at night.
- I don't believe it was late at night.
- Might have been evening.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Because we had a radio
- show Green Thursday early on.
- But it wasn't that?
- BOB DARDANO: Yeah.
- No.
- I think this was some, I don't remember what kind of show
- it was.
- I'm not even sure.
- Go back and look at The Empty Closet records
- and see how it was reported, if we reported it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, I'm sure we did.
- BOB DARDANO: But it was Jackie and me.
- And it was kind of interesting, you know.
- Because Jackie's voice was rather deep.
- You know?
- It was probably deeper than mine.
- So it may have confused people listening on the radio.
- But, I mean, looking back I can smile and say, you know,
- that that was fun, but--
- EVELYN BAILEY: It was scary.
- BOB DARDANO: Well, it was scary.
- It was nerve wracking, because you are, wrongly, of course,
- but you are representing a whole community, you know, in this.
- At that era when there were so few voices
- that the general public would listen to
- or wanted to hear from, you really
- did feel like you had to say only the right things
- and make everything look wonderful.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wonderful.
- BOB DARDANO: You know?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- BOB DARDANO: But you would never today
- say, well, we're going to take two white people
- and say that a lesbian and a gay man that they "represent
- the community", quote unquote.
- You know?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hmm.
- Was Anita Bryant and the Save the Children campaign
- a part of your?
- BOB DARDANO: I think that was before.
- And you mentioned the dinner with the Chamber
- of Commerce issue.
- I believe that was '83, and that was the spark that
- led to the city council passing its nondiscrimination
- ordinance.
- That was in December of '83.
- I wrote a long article about that, basically,
- quoting, recounting everything that happened at that meeting.
- That was one of those deals where you sign up
- to speak before the council, and, of course,
- the other side managed to scoop up most of the spots.
- We won that vote seven to one, if I recall.
- Nine members of the council, right?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- BOB DARDANO: We won seven to one.
- There was one abstention.
- I think there was one abstention.
- John Curran voted no.
- And he said that he was only voting
- no because he didn't agree with the process by which it had all
- come up, you know, whatever.
- But all the others voted yes.
- And what kind of set that in motion that night,
- and who knows, I don't know how the council members discussed
- all this meetings just among themselves beforehand,
- but the citizens got up to speak.
- Then it came time for vote.
- Council members would speak from the dais
- and then cast their vote.
- The first one was Ruth Scott who was
- an African-American at-large member.
- She may have been vice mayor at the time.
- I don't recall.
- But, anyway, we weren't sure where
- she was on this vote before the meeting.
- And she said as much in her remarks
- that she wasn't sure how she was going to vote on this.
- But after hearing all of the hate filled remarks
- by so many people, she realized that a nondiscrimination
- ordinance was necessary.
- And so she voted yes.
- And who knows that yes vote from a person who has non-committed,
- you know, beforehand may have influenced other people as they
- cast their votes down the dais.
- I don't know.
- They may have already decided they were voting yes,
- but we'll never know.
- But seven to one, we won.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Talk to me a little bit
- about the obvious hatred vehemently
- aggressive presentations in that chamber.
- I was there.
- BOB DARDANO: Well, to be honest, I mean, I'd
- like to have that issue of The Empty Closet right
- here in front of me, probably the January issue of '84,
- where I probably quoted all those people.
- But it was, you know, Macaluso and the Citizens
- for a Decent Society, I believe, was their name.
- And so it was all religion based, as it is today.
- Not a whole lot has changed in that regard.
- No one can come up with a logical reason, a civic reason,
- you know, to deny employment rights
- or to deny equal marriage rights,
- you knoe, Sometimes I think I wish
- I had one of those gongs or buzzers,
- and any time you mention religion or God or the Bible,
- you know, as your rationale going to buzz you.
- No.
- We're not talking about that.
- We're talking about civil rights.
- We're talking about religious rights.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Had you heard that kind of vehement
- diatribe before?
- BOB DARDANO: I had heard slurs.
- I don't recall hearing that kind of thing spoken from the pulpit
- at my church, Catholic church, to be honest.
- I don't remember that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I do think hearing the hatred,
- seeing the people who are saying those words does impact one's
- psyche, and makes one perhaps not feel as comfortable as one
- might feel in other circumstances.
- But certainly, the truth comes out
- in terms of how people really feel.
- BOB DARDANO: Yes, that's true.
- And it cuts both ways.
- To the uncertain gay or lesbian person,
- often youth, hearing that kind of vitriol
- can have a very negative impact.
- To outside straight society with no skin in the game one
- way or the other hearing that vitriol-- you know,
- in effect that becomes one of our best friends.
- Because that vitriol turns off people
- who normally wouldn't care, turns them
- into allies, defenders of us.
- Especially as the years have gone
- on as more and more of those people who wouldn't have cared
- one way or the other found out that they have gay family
- members or a lesbian neighbor or someone at work, you know.
- Coming out was the key.
- It remains the key to all of this.
- I like to say that it was very easy for the right wing, put it
- all under one big rubric of right wing,
- it was very easy for the right wing
- to keep society in an anti-gay, you know, frame of mind
- when the only gay people that existed
- were the very effeminate drag queen and the very masculine,
- you know, butch lesbian.
- Because it was easy because you could see them.
- You could identify them.
- You could point them out.
- And you knew you didn't have anybody
- in your family like that.
- No one on your street was like that.
- Those people were over there somewhere.
- So it was very easy to discriminate against them.
- You didn't know any of them.
- But once people started coming out,
- suddenly, it's the guy at the grocery store, you know.
- It's the neighbor downstairs with her woman friend
- who you thought was just a friend and their two children.
- You know, it's a real person.
- Oh, and it's now it's my child, or my brother, or my cousin.
- You know-- and we look normal.
- And, suddenly, it's not just them.
- It's us.
- And that broke down all the doors.
- And the right wing tried the same thing with marriage.
- As long as none of us could get married, it was so easy to say,
- if they get married all these bad things will happen.
- OK?
- Of course, there was nothing to test that.
- So it was easy for people to continue to believe that.
- Once people started getting married,
- once the dam was broken, suddenly, well, no, the world
- didn't end.
- Everything is still normal.
- Everything's still fine.
- Nothing bad happened.
- And so you've seen an incredible rise
- in the number of people supporting marriage equality.
- So coming out in every way has been the salvation
- of the GLBT community.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Looking back over your years here
- in Rochester and your years away from Rochester, what
- are you most proud of, Bob?
- BOB DARDANO: Well, I'm proud of some of the things
- that I've been able to do for the community.
- I worked hard here in Rochester.
- I worked hard on the '83 effort to get that ordinance passed.
- I did win the Vinnie Cup in 1984.
- So I do have a nice little trophy,
- which was a great honor to get.
- Having that success in '83 made me
- think that it was going to be easy to move on
- to the next step.
- And it certainly was not. because The Monroe County
- legislature was not in any way interested in passing
- the same kind of ordinance or nondiscrimination legislation.
- Then, you know, Tim's campaign in '85
- was a real high point for everybody.
- There was something in one of these articles
- recently the first gay man elected
- in New York state or whatever.
- But it was really more than that.
- You know, we think he was the first gay person
- to win election to an at-large seat.
- You know, Harvey Milk in San Francisco
- had tried a few times to win election
- to the county board of supervisors
- when they were all elected at-large.
- And he was unable to win.
- After they changed the rules and created districts,
- that's when he won.
- He was able to win that Castro neighborhood district.
- So yeah.
- He was in office before, but it was a district office.
- Tim may well have been the first person
- to be elected as an at-large candidate anywhere.
- So that was a big deal.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That was major.
- BOB DARDANO: Yeah.
- And then the following year in '86,
- I worked on Louise Slaughter's first campaign for Congress
- when she was challenging that incumbent Fred Eckert.
- And I was 26th LD coordinator for her campaign.
- She won fifty-one- forty-nine.
- So, of course, I take all the credit for that.
- So those were highlights.
- I loved working on The Empty Closet.
- I liked writing my column.
- I liked the news reporting aspect of it in Washington.
- Well, back in the '90s, I was officer
- of two of the major political organizations
- there, Gertrude Stein Democratic Club, Gay and Lesbian Activist
- Alliance, which is nonpartisan.
- So I'm proud of that.
- And, perhaps, most proud in D.C.,
- that I was one of the founders of our GLBT employees group
- at work, which is the Library of Congress Gay, Lesbian,
- or Bisexual Employees Organization.
- So that's LC GLOBE.
- We chose the name to sort of be affiliated with the Federal
- Globe.
- Which, as you may know, is an umbrella group
- for all of the federal government agencies
- organizations, which are all like little globes.
- There's transportation globe and all of this.
- Department of Interior and whatever.
- So we established LC GLOBE in 1994.
- When I got to the Library of Congress,
- I was shocked that with all of the obviously gay and lesbian
- people there not only was there no organization,
- but everyone was very quiet about that.
- I recall reading the Washington Blade at my desk
- on two separate occasions where two older more closeted gay men
- came by.
- And I remember one of them saying, he looked at me
- and he looked at the paper and he said, "my, aren't we bold."
- (Bailey laughs) And he sort of walked off.
- Because they weren't out.
- I mean, they were obvious.
- Anybody who knew any gay people would
- know that these guys were gay.
- So I had two people react to me that way.
- And I thought, well, how can there not be an organization.
- So I put out a call for people to get together.
- And I was shocked went over 100 people showed up.
- There was this pent up need to have
- a place where everybody could be together and talk about that.
- So that was '94.
- So we're almost twenty years there.
- I've been chairperson of that group five times
- over the years.
- So, you know, we've had some great speakers and events
- and all that stuff that comes with an organization like that.
- So yeah, I'm very proud of having done that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That's incredible.
- I had no idea.
- BOB DARDANO: Oh, well there you go.
- Well that's not in Shoulders To Stand On because that
- happened after I left. (laughs)
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, but more and more, Rochester and the Gay
- Alliance have been training grounds for political activists
- and people who became involved in activism
- within their own sphere of influence.
- I mean, so in many ways what you went through here
- and what you did here and what you
- experienced laid the foundation for what you would do later.
- BOB DARDANO: That's true.
- And there was one major disappointment
- in making that move and transition.
- Yes, I continued with the gay activism stuff.
- I went to D.C. thinking, well, I was
- going to continue the Democratic Party activity and activism
- that I had here.
- And I found that it's totally different.
- It's a totally different structure.
- They do have Ward organizations.
- They have no power.
- You know, I came here from a place
- where those LDs chose the candidates, you know.
- And the 26th LD meeting when Tim first ran
- was his key to winning that nomination
- and getting on the ballot and then being elected.
- Because we were the second ones to meet.
- He had gone to the 27th beforehand.
- That was in Charlotte.
- That was the most conservative Democratic group in the city.
- And somebody asked him that she had
- read that he was the editor of The Empty Closet at one point.
- And she asked him point blank, "are you gay?"
- I mean, how did anybody not know,
- but she asked, "are you gay?"
- Well, do you believe he wasn't prepared for that question.
- He wasn't prepared for that direct are you gay question.
- And he fumbled over the answer, and it sounded defensive,
- and it was bad.
- And he did not get the votes.
- And after that, we decided that's not going
- to happen again, you know.
- You are going to diffuse that by bringing it
- up yourself in the presentation that you make before people
- start asking questions.
- And so he did at 26th LD, which was I think the second most
- conservative group.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- BOB DARDANO: But he got the endorsement of that LD.
- And, in fact, one woman said that she was voting for him
- because if he was honest about that,
- he'll be honest about everything.
- So that was quite a lesson.
- So I went to D.C. And these ward organizations
- don't do anything like that.
- They don't have any power like that.
- It's all very cliquish and very personality driven.
- And, in fact, it's kind of a lesson
- for what happens when you get what you think you want,
- which is an all democratic city.
- You think, oh, wow.
- Wouldn't that be great?
- No Republicans, you know.
- But no.
- Then you have no reason to organize.
- You have no reason to register voters.
- You have no reason to sort of winnow out candidates.
- And D.C. being such a unique jurisdiction without statehood,
- with very few political offices, it's
- a place where people really believe
- that, oh, if anybody wants to run,
- they should be able to run.
- Here you can only sign one petition
- when someone is nominated.
- In D.C., you can sign as many as you want.
- Let 1,000 flowers bloom.
- Let there be twenty-five people on the ballot.
- Because we don't have full representation.
- This is our way of having democracy, you know.
- So it's a totally different thing.
- I never was comfortable with that.
- There's a lot of, when I got there especially, you know,
- it was so much racial tension, you know,
- and just so many different interest
- groups that were part of that.
- And I just found it frustrating, and just
- couldn't really deal with that.
- So I sort of focused on the gay stuff when I was there.
- And, you know, as you know very well,
- just because I left Rochester doesn't mean
- I wasn't interested.
- I still get The Empty Closet in the mail,
- and I kept every issue for all those years.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And we're very grateful you did.
- BOB DARDANO: Yeah.
- And you know I'm a librarian turned out.
- It wasn't what I thought I was going to be,
- but, that's what I've been for the last twenty-six years
- and a pack rat.
- And I think the two go together-- (laughter)
- EVELYN BAILEY: I agree.
- BOB DARDANO: --in large measure.
- And I always kept all those issues of the EC year
- after year after year thinking, well,
- someone somewhere will want them.
- See, the Library of Congress did not collect the EC.
- It was not a title that they collected.
- And when the anniversary came up,
- when you digitized everything, and put it
- on that wonderful little flash drive, by then
- we had a gay and lesbian studies specialist.
- So I convinced her that we want the EC
- in the Library of Congress.
- So we kept, thanks to Sue Cowell who
- was executive director at the time, sort of
- gave us permission as a gift to use my flash
- drive to make copies of all of those digital issues.
- So that now that they're in the Library of Congress as well.
- But I kept all those paper issues
- thinking some library somewhere is going to want them.
- But once you came up with the flash drive,
- I thought well nobody's going to want the paper anymore.
- You've got two inches of flash drive with, you know,
- forty years of newspaper.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The Smithsonian wants paper.
- BOB DARDANO: They do?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- BOB DARDANO: Really?
- EVELYN BAILEY: We have sent them all of the extra copies that we
- have of Empty Closets.
- And their collection is not complete
- as our collection is not totally complete.
- But they wanted paper.
- I offered a flash drive.
- They did not want a flash drive.
- BOB DARDANO: Well, for librarians,
- at least for the Library of Congress,
- you know, the archival format is still paper or microform.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, and this is microfilm.
- BOB DARDANO: OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: There are three copies.
- One to Cornell, one to the U of R, and one
- for the Gay Alliance.
- BOB DARDANO: Right.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And I've just kind of signed, sealed,
- and delivered an agreement with the University of Rochester
- rare books and manuscripts department.
- Every five years, they will microfilm the digitized copies.
- Because that is still the most--
- BOB DARDANO: That's the archival format.
- Because we don't know how long digital media will last.
- The technology changes.
- You know, every time you turn around,
- there's some new technology.
- At work I like to say, you know, we
- don't know if digital media will last 500 years.
- We know that paper will last 500 years.
- And we won't know if digital media will last 500 years
- until 500 years from now.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- BOB DARDANO: And, of course, the technology
- will be completely different even ten or twenty
- years from now, if that.
- Already we have computers that won't play floppy disks.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I know.
- BOB DARDANO: So if you didn't save the information
- or don't have a way to transfer it, you know, it's lost.
- So your Shoulders To Stand On email looking for ECs,
- well, my first reaction was, well,
- what did you do with them all?
- Why didn't you keep them all?
- I couldn't believe that you were missing so many issues
- or that you needed extra copies of so many issues.
- Maybe you did have one or two but you wanted more.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Let me end this and say,
- I'm very, very grateful that you came to Rochester,
- and we had this chance to talk.
- And get you recorded on digital media
- to get your thoughts in, to really say thank you
- for all you've done, not only here in Rochester
- but in D.C. with your Library of Congress LGBT interest group.
- This will be a part of the audio portion of the website
- when it gets developed.
- And I'll send this to Kevin.
- And Let me thank you, Bob.
- I'm going to turn this off.