Audio Interview, Bob Sweeney, September 8, 2012

  • BOB SWEENEY: --Gleason would say.
  • Remember that?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Pardon me?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Jackie Gleason--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh yeah.
  • BOB SWEENEY: --would say, and away we go.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Away we go.
  • Well, I'm here with Bob Sweeney who was very active in The Gay
  • Alliance in the early, mid, late 70's.
  • And I want to begin with looking at what
  • Bob was like when he was seven or eight,
  • and then go on from there.
  • But you were born in Rochester.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Over in the northeast side,
  • yeah, over by Franklin High School.
  • Franklin High School--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What was that area like at that time?
  • Today, of course it's--
  • BOB SWEENEY: It's changed, right.
  • Back there, of course, the streets
  • were named Sobieski, Kosciuszko, very heavy Polish neighborhood.
  • Also blended with, because it was not very far from Joseph
  • Avenue, the big Jewish community at that point.
  • So we had wonderful bakeries too,
  • and things like that over there.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And where did you go to school?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Well, Franklin High School,
  • I went to Franklin High School.
  • So did my mother.
  • So did my uncles.
  • They were all from that area of town,
  • whether it be off of Joseph Avenue or off of--
  • I was off of--
  • I was near Pulaski Park, another Polish name--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, wow.
  • BOB SWEENEY: --which was off of Carter Street and North Street.
  • I grew up there and stayed there until I graduated, which was--
  • graduated in '65, and continued to stay in the area.
  • In fact, I bought the house that I grew up partially in.
  • I grew up on 651 Wilkins Street.
  • And in my high school years, my parents bought a house at 648.
  • So (laughs) across the street.
  • And then in later years, I even bought that house,
  • and then finally sold it and moved to the burbs.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And when you graduated from high school--
  • BOB SWEENEY: Mm-hm, '65.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --where were you off to?
  • BOB SWEENEY: I started working and went to college part-time,
  • went to MCC part-time.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: When did you begin to recognize, realize,
  • you were gay?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Oh, we deal with it slowly and I guess--
  • over the years.
  • And finally came to the drawing point about 1970,
  • '74, about '74.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were you involved with the Gay Liberation Front
  • at the University of Rochester at all?
  • BOB SWEENEY: No, no.
  • I came on board after that.
  • They had already created their own group, The Gay Brotherhood,
  • and there was several other groups.
  • And they had already moved to the old firehouse
  • on Monroe Avenue.
  • You know, when you walked down that side alley.
  • Remember walking down there?
  • And up the back staircase, it was all kind of scary,
  • especially if you didn't know exactly where you're going
  • or what was behind closed doors.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: How did you find The Gay Alliance?
  • BOB SWEENEY: I think the phone book.
  • My recollection was other people with the three eyes
  • and, you know, horns, and things like that.
  • So I looked in the phone book, found
  • the address, ventured down in broad daylight, of course.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And so you knew no one.
  • BOB SWEENEY: No, no, knew no one.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And what did you find when
  • you walked up the back stairs?
  • And someone at the top must have opened the door.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Yep, somebody was there,
  • and I don't remember who.
  • It could have been people like, at that point,
  • people like Michael Robertson were involved, Mark Connolly.
  • I don't know if you know that name at all.
  • He was involved.
  • Bill-- what was it, Bill Connolly.
  • Mark, what was Mark's last time, I can remember.
  • Now, Mark moved to Boston, Bill moved to Buffalo.
  • It was the old regime, so to speak, back then.
  • So somebody greeted me, and we talked for, you know, fifteen,
  • twenty minutes.
  • And told me the times that the group met,
  • and whatever, up in the sunken room up there,
  • if you remember that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • BOB SWEENEY: And so at one point,
  • I don't know if it was the following week, two
  • weeks, or a month later, you know, I showed back up.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And when did you become an officer?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Involved in it and more just than a visitor?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Oh boy.
  • Probably within six or seven months.
  • I remember my first input was they asked me,
  • what could I help with, what would I mind doing,
  • and what would, you know--
  • And I said well, I can type.
  • So they said, oh, we've got a spot for you
  • to help us with the newspaper, The Empty Closet.
  • And it was after--
  • remember the fire that was Jay's Place?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • BOB SWEENEY: And they had moved The Empty Closet
  • (unintelligible).
  • And I remember that the typewriter
  • at that point, the Selectric typewriter,
  • was over Whitey's house.
  • And so it was Mark, Mark-- whatever his last name was.
  • I'll have to look that up.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mark Shork?
  • BOB SWEENEY: No.
  • Mark Connolly or something like that.
  • I can show you a picture of him.
  • Said, OK, let's meet over at Whitey's house,
  • and we'll have you help us type up The Empty Closet.
  • So I sat there for one afternoon typing up The Empty Closet,
  • making paragraphs out of it and things.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And was that--
  • BOB SWEENEY: That's when I started to get involved,
  • and people--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: The eight and a half by eleven?
  • Or did you write--
  • BOB SWEENEY: I think these were being typed up and then pasted
  • up into the bigger stuff.
  • Because shortly after that, Tim took over the editorial of it.
  • And that's when after-- then we finally
  • moved it to above Friers, the second floor of Friers
  • at that point.
  • And I stuck around helping out with that.
  • And then I went on to do other things for The Gay Brotherhood
  • at that point.
  • And then after that, they moved it over to University Avenue.
  • And I wasn't involved.
  • I've been there a couple of times down in the chicken wire
  • fenced in area, if you remember that--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • BOB SWEENEY: --when Tim was actively involved with it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And then in 1977, the opportunity
  • arose for The Gay Alliance to apply for a CETA grant
  • from the federal government.
  • And you were president or vice president of the Alliance?
  • BOB SWEENEY: President or vice president, not of the Alliance,
  • of the Brotherhood, of the Brotherhood, yeah.
  • I was never an officer in The Gay Alliance itself,
  • the parent company, if you will, the umbrella company, but more
  • on the Brotherhood level.
  • Yeah, and it was John Noble's idea to say,
  • hey, there's this money available.
  • Look at what's going on.
  • They're giving out money like crazy.
  • At that point he said, let's do it.
  • And I said, I'm able to write grants.
  • I do it all time.
  • So we formed a committee, a small committee,
  • which was Tim Mains, Michael Robertson, John
  • Noble, obviously, and then myself from the Brotherhood,
  • and prepared papers to submit the grant,
  • submit the request for money.
  • And then that's when the action started, if you will.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now what was the grant for?
  • What were you writing this grant for?
  • BOB SWEENEY: For staffing purposes,
  • so we could hire some staff to really formally get
  • this organization at the next level,
  • to have a director or somebody that was full-time.
  • Because right now, at that point,
  • everybody was just volunteers, and also giving
  • what we could give as far as knowledge and input.
  • So they felt that it was more important to have somebody
  • heading the ship and organizing this thing,
  • and getting public recognition of our (interposing voices)
  • And we're still over on Monroe Avenue at that point, upstairs
  • over the old fire hall, which was The Genesee Co-op
  • at that point downstairs.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • And when you wrote the grant, you
  • were the one who actually wrote it.
  • BOB SWEENEY: No, John Noble wrote it.
  • Now, he was also employed by the city at that point.
  • He had already written a proposal for grant money,
  • and I'm not sure if it was from CETA or not, I can't say that,
  • but is was grant money.
  • He already-- his position, which was archivist at that point,
  • was a grant-funded position.
  • And so he was--
  • knowing how to write grants, and the right things to say,
  • and what not to say, what really triggers grant people to say,
  • oh, this is worthwhile, etc.
  • He wrote it, but he said, I really
  • can't pen my name to it because of the exposure.
  • So it was all agreed that Michael Robertson, and I
  • believe Michael at that point, was head of the GAGV,
  • he was the director, chair, whatever you want to call it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: President of the board.
  • BOB SWEENEY: President of the board--
  • that he would sign it, and we'd be all set.
  • Well, it turned out that Michael, at that point,
  • was traveling back and forth, because of his partner,
  • to Iowa.
  • And on a very short notice, something
  • turned up this had to be turned in (laughs).
  • Somebody had to sign it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Deadline.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Deadline, and Michael
  • was not physically here.
  • So I go, give me that paper, give me a pen,
  • and I'll sign it.
  • So I just put a name down.
  • In fact, I don't think I've ever read
  • the proposal (Bailey laughs).
  • But knowing that John had written it,
  • and I was very confident that this was something
  • that the committee, whoever was reviewing the grants,
  • would look highly on and hopefully obtain funding,
  • I signed it away.
  • And so we then got it to the people that
  • were responsible for doing the CETA money
  • and got it in under the deadline.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Did you attend any of the city council
  • meetings at which the grant was to be, kind of approved?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Yes, I remember going to one.
  • And that was the one where, not only I went, but we organized,
  • I don't know, twenty-five, thirty--
  • it looked like a huge group.
  • But, you know, when you're in the chambers up there,
  • and the seats are all full, and we're all standing back,
  • it looked like a huge group.
  • And we were there when they, you know,
  • all the uproar came from the peanut gallery, if you will.
  • And finally, the city council tabled the whole thing,
  • because they knew it was going to be--
  • it was getting to be very questionable and argumentative
  • within the group.
  • So I remember Tim Mains being there at that point,
  • and I think Michael had already come back, so he was with us.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And who was on city council that--
  • BOB SWEENEY: You're pushing my gray hair.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Charlie Schiano?
  • BOB SWEENEY: I think Schiano was there, yeah,
  • I'm remember him, good old Charlie.
  • Of course, he was one of the vocal people against the type
  • of thing like that.
  • Bill Johnson was the mayor, and Jeff Carlson was the assistant.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, Bill Johnson
  • was head of the Urban League.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Urban League, right.
  • Who was the mayor at that point?
  • Oh, it was what's his name.
  • He had been around for a long time.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Ryan?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Ryan.
  • Ryan was the mayor at that point, yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Outside of city council chambers and outside
  • of writing the CETA grant, do you
  • remember how the community, in general, in Rochester
  • looked upon--
  • not Schiano, I mean--
  • Charlie Schiano had a particular focus in opposition.
  • BOB SWEENEY: And ax to bear, yeah, right.
  • He liked to get his name in the paper by making waves
  • and that he thought would get him support.
  • And, you know, there's certainly a group
  • of people that would rally around his banter.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But outside of him,
  • in terms of the community in general,
  • do you have any sense of how they
  • looked upon the Gay Alliance or how
  • they looked upon gay people?
  • BOB SWEENEY: I don't think it was very vocal at all.
  • I think it was pretty quiet.
  • It wasn't supportive or it wasn't negative,
  • it was just quiet.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall receiving any phone calls that
  • were threatening, or abusive, or either
  • to The Gay Brotherhood, or?
  • BOB SWEENEY: No, no, I don't remember any of that,
  • no, just went on business as usual.
  • Certainly when the-- brought up on council,
  • I heard that people at the council got phone calls.
  • And I guess that was one of the reasons
  • that they passed the hot potato, if you
  • will, for even all the grant reviews
  • onto a different agency.
  • Because they don't feel they were qualified to,
  • or wanted to take, the position of allowing or denying
  • anything, because they just wanted
  • to wipe their hands a little clean and say,
  • you know, we've turned it over.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: It was, I think, the Community Chest that--
  • BOB SWEENEY: Correct.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --originally was the conduit.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Right, they were off of St. Paul Street,
  • sitting in the Chamber of Commerce building downstairs.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • BOB SWEENEY: They passed it off to them
  • and they didn't realize they got such a hot potato either.
  • Because it, apparently, clogged up their phone system one day.
  • They couldn't make outgoing calls at all.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: That's pretty significant.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Right.
  • They had so many people calling it.
  • And I'm not sure--
  • I don't know the relationship of the calls, whether pro
  • or against, but it clogged up their phone system that they
  • couldn't operate one day.
  • And it was in the paper, I remember that.
  • So they wanted to pass it off now.
  • They go, this isn't for us either.
  • And that's when they passed it off to well, Bill Johnson's
  • group, which was the Urban League at that point, right?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • BOB SWEENEY: That's when he was involved with them.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now, let's move away from CETA and look at--
  • besides the Gay Alliance in the early '70s,
  • what other resources were available to the community?
  • Where else would the community find groups of people
  • that they could interact with, that they could share life
  • with?
  • BOB SWEENEY: I don't know of any, I really don't.
  • Buffalo had the Mattachine Society up there,
  • Rochester had The Gay Alliance, a group that
  • had been around for a while.
  • The Mattachine was older than us.
  • But that was it that I knew of, other than the typical,
  • figure out where the bars are.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • Now, after Stone Wall in '69, over 400 Gay Liberation Front
  • groups arose all over the country,
  • mostly on college campuses.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Where Whitey got involved with the University
  • of Rochester.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • By 1974, they were still active, but they weren't as politically
  • active, the U of R group, as they were--
  • BOB SWEENEY: Socially--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --prior to The Gay Alliance breaking off,
  • or the group splitting.
  • Do you recall how--
  • now, explain to me, The Gay Brotherhood
  • was the group that actually broke off from the U of R, or?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Not sure, I won't comment on that.
  • I got involved when there was The Gay Brotherhood,
  • and had already broken off.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Was there a women's group?
  • BOB SWEENEY: There was, and I can't remember the name of it.
  • Do you remember at all?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: GROW.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Was is GROW?
  • Patti Evans.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Pattie Evans.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Right.
  • And that's when the other two groups
  • decided to form a common group, the Gay Alliance of the Genesee
  • Valley.
  • And then we also were part of the New York State one.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes, NYSGA.
  • BOB SWEENEY: NYSGA.
  • And we used to go to Albany for meetings,
  • and lobbying, and things like that back in those days.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And what were you lobbying for?
  • BOB SWEENEY: I remember Bob Lewis
  • being very active in there.
  • Me, Michael, we traveled to Albany
  • to their organization, their gay alliance, if you will,
  • which is still on Hudson Street by the way.
  • It's still on Hudson Street, because I
  • have a place in Albany.
  • And I haven't been to it, but I know people who go there.
  • I guess just for recognition and, you know,
  • making sure that we were known.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were the sodomy laws still in--
  • BOB SWEENEY: They were, they were, they were.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So would you have been--
  • BOB SWEENEY: We weren't that big or that organized yet.
  • We were trying to raise money to hire somebody for a lobbying.
  • That was the main group of all of us getting together,
  • so we'd have a lobbyist.
  • And we did hire a guy by name of John Narik for a while,
  • I know that.
  • A younger fellow who was a graduate from Rensselaer
  • Polytech.
  • And we also had a couple lawyers up there, partners.
  • two guys.
  • Joe something, oh, boy, I'll have to look in the notes.
  • So we wanted a lobbyist, to have people to go around and prove
  • to the legislative people that were the reps for all
  • across the state, that we were a group that
  • should be recognized.
  • So we got some money.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: The Gay Brotherhood,
  • what was its purpose?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Mainly social, mainly social, we had meetings,
  • I think they were once a week.
  • I don't remember the night, maybe Sunday nights,
  • but we'd have a social thing.
  • And it was social/educational.
  • So we'd bring in speakers or have
  • a program that lasted, you know, an hour or so,
  • try to spread the word, try to help with the distribution
  • of the newspaper at that point.
  • We used to take the newspaper, when it came out once
  • a month, a bunch of us after the meeting would, you know,
  • grab papers and go down to the different bars
  • and stand and hand them out, and things like that.
  • So it was trying to get people together outside of just
  • the alcoholic scene of the bars and do social activities.
  • Certainly there was a-- every year
  • we sponsored a trip to see how many people would join us
  • for the New York City Pride days,
  • and go down to New York City Pride, and stuff like that.
  • So take the train down, a whole bunch of us.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: In your experience, as a gay man,
  • have you ever been discriminated against?
  • Have you ever been assaulted or attacked?
  • BOB SWEENEY: I can honestly say I don't have any recollections
  • of that, I really don't.
  • If there were any, it would be more, I think, contrived.
  • But, no, and that's been a positive thing.
  • But then again, there are different ways
  • that people interact, and they're all legitimate.
  • Don't get me wrong.
  • I'm not saying the way I interact is one way is best.
  • Obviously, I have a lot of people
  • I know, especially more now so in Albany,
  • because just I'm out.
  • I'm away from Jerry in Albany, my partner.
  • And so being a social person, I interact with people up there.
  • And some of the younger people are very much more--
  • outgoing presence of, you know, their needs or their
  • wants, and act somewhat differently.
  • You know, my job and my things I've always enjoyed,
  • I am what I am, and so I've never had that issue.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Would you identify yourself as out?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Never deny.
  • Certainly at the office, although I'm not--
  • I have another associate at my office who is very pushy,
  • forward, even at meetings.
  • That's just not me.
  • So everybody obviously knows who I am,
  • and my partner and I go to company functions
  • when I feel like going.
  • In fact, they always ask, bring Jerry,
  • why aren't you coming, etc.
  • For example, I had a business associate from Baltimore
  • over the other night.
  • A married gentleman, nice guy, wife, family, and I
  • had him over for dinner, and he's
  • encouraging me to use his home that they
  • have up in Maine at times.
  • We're just people.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right
  • BOB SWEENEY: No.
  • So if you treat people like that instead of trying to shove--
  • anything, even them shoving down my throat, anything that--
  • So we get along well.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now, in terms of--
  • you graduated from Franklin.
  • You went to--
  • BOB SWEENEY: MCC for a couple years, part-time.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And then?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Always stayed in Rochester.
  • I did one little stint out of town for a-- but not very far.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: After MCC, did you go on?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Nope, no, I already had a position,
  • that I had a wonderful mentor for a boss.
  • We used to kid, my boss, he was a frustrated schoolteacher.
  • And if you ever asked a question,
  • he'd explained things in great detail
  • as far as the technology of it, because it's
  • more a technical program, to the point that we always kid.
  • I would say, never ask a Dutch what time
  • it is, because he'll tell you how to build a watch
  • (Bailey laughs).
  • And so I learned from him quite well.
  • And as a result, I made a reasonably good living
  • in that technology group.
  • And people said, you haven't got a four-year degree?
  • No.
  • In fact, I heard a guy about six years ago now,
  • he's taken over my Rochester job, great person.
  • In fact, we travel together all the time,
  • and share a hotel room, and we get along.
  • And I always kid him, I'll come out and fix your tie.
  • It's a little crooked.
  • But he came out at college with six years.
  • He had gone for years, and stayed on for two more years.
  • Came on board with me.
  • Although he understood the technology,
  • still had to be taught, had to learn.
  • And it's great to see him now pick it up,
  • because I also, if he ever asked a question,
  • I told him how to build a watch.
  • So some of the college stuff you learn,
  • although it may be theory of Ohm's law,
  • you need to know how to apply it in different applications.
  • So I teach engineers right now.
  • I go around providing education courses that have CEU and PDH
  • credits for the state education department for engineering
  • firms.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: How important, in your opinion,
  • is a high school diploma, a college diploma, and beyond?
  • How important is that, not from an LGBT perspective,
  • but from your--
  • BOB SWEENEY: Just in general life.
  • It all depends where you surface and what you really like to do.
  • I just met a gentleman the other day--
  • not the other day, it was about two months ago, Chris.
  • He's from the Albany area, now lives down closer to the city.
  • Was going to Saint Rose College.
  • I don't know if you know that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I do.
  • BOB SWEENEY: It's an education college up in Albany.
  • Went there two years and just didn't like it.
  • And he is now in construction work.
  • He works for a firm that rehabs buildings in New York City.
  • And he just loves what he's doing.
  • He has a smile on his face.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: High school diploma?
  • BOB SWEENEY: High school diploma, two years of college,
  • but decided teaching professional wasn't for him.
  • This John Narik I talked about went to Rensselaer Polytech
  • and got a chemical engineering degree.
  • And the last I heard he's a librarian.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • BOB SWEENEY: So I guess somebody that
  • wants to become something in their field and does it--
  • Joe Packis I don't know if you know Joe Packis
  • four-year degree in optical engineering
  • from the University of Rochester, one of the few.
  • There's, I don't know, half a dozen colleges in the United
  • States that have this optical engineering degree
  • level that the University of Rochester offers.
  • And U of R is not a cheap school.
  • You know what he's doing now?
  • He's working for a testing firm that he helps proofread tests
  • that this firm sends out to high schools
  • and colleges for testing math.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Math questions.
  • So he proofreads the math questions
  • to make sure that they're correct and et cetera.
  • So is a college degree important?
  • For some, yes.
  • For some, not.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: High school?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Oh, absolutely, high school, yeah.
  • You better know how to count change.
  • And some of the people I know in Albany didn't.
  • They took the easy road out.
  • They wanted to party to hard.
  • But they've gone back, most of them, and got their GEDs.
  • You need that for basic education, you know.
  • But if you can find a position, that's something you like,
  • you can excel in it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Is the company that you work
  • for currently LGBT friendly?
  • Does it have, included in its policies and HR, benefits?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Yes.
  • It's a single one line statement, or three,
  • or whatever it says, yeah.
  • They are, they are.
  • No discrimination based on blah, blah, blah.
  • Although we are a small company.
  • We're less than 100 employees.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But in traveling around,
  • do you find that piece important to people?
  • BOB SWEENEY: I would hope so.
  • I'm not sure I do or not, but I hope it would be.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Certainly our major companies in Rochester
  • have stepped forward, wouldn't you agree with that?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I would, yeah.
  • BOB SWEENEY: They have stepped forward.
  • And, you know, it's not costing them anything,
  • and yet it's getting them positive reactions for that.
  • Interesting, I went to a hotel--
  • this is a story Jerry doesn't even know.
  • Took a friend of mine, went out of town,
  • I have to stay in Albany.
  • And I said, oh, let's head up to Springfield.
  • So I checked in at a hotel and they said they have a king bed.
  • And they looked at me and the guy that was with me,
  • and they go, oh.
  • Oh, we got you in a king bed.
  • Don't worry, we're going out, just we're sleeping.
  • And it turned out the next morning, we go down,
  • see the same desk clerk at this nice hotel,
  • it was a reasonably nice hotel.
  • And they had a breakfast, and he comes over,
  • and has a cup of coffee, and he tells me
  • about him and his partner and how they just adopted kids,
  • and everything else like that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • BOB SWEENEY: It's interesting.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: When you look back
  • at your involvement in The Gay Brotherhood and The Gay
  • Alliance, what are you most proud of, Bob?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Well, probably selfishly,
  • just that I got over that hurdle, you know.
  • That was more-- although, I hoped I helped other things,
  • and made statements, and CETA, and whatever else.
  • And then I moved on, because I wanted other people to do it.
  • I hate organizations that a person
  • self-perpetuates and doesn't give
  • other people opportunities.
  • But it was, really, it was mind-boggling to deal
  • with the community on a different level
  • than over a drink.
  • The time that-- this was after CETA money.
  • I think we already had CETA money at that point.
  • And there was news at noon, Channel ten, I think.
  • Channel ten?
  • No.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Thirteen?
  • BOB SWEENEY: It was Channel eight,
  • because I remember going down to Humboldt Street
  • at their studios down there.
  • And it was Margaret Graham Smith was the news broadcaster, who
  • always did a segment at the noon news of a community highlight
  • or something, and had an interview scene.
  • And so I got the call, I don't know,
  • because I guess I was president of The Gay Brotherhood
  • at that point.
  • I got the call from the news team down.
  • There they said they would like to do one of the spotlights
  • on The Gay Brotherhood of Rochester,
  • and would I come down and do the interview
  • with Margaret Graham Smith.
  • Sure.
  • And so I went to Darrell--
  • What was Darrell's last name?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Porter?
  • BOB SWEENEY: No.
  • The minister that we hired to run the CETA--
  • was our first employee, and Darrell was his first name,
  • and his last name was--
  • I've got his card downstairs.
  • He was the associate pastor of my church, by the way.
  • A big downtown church, and we hired him to be the director,
  • our first paid employee.
  • I remember saying, well, Darrell, I've
  • got to go down to this interview.
  • He said, I'll go with you.
  • And so we went down and did the interview at noon for them.
  • Of course, this was normally when the news came on.
  • They broke away from the news, and then they
  • went to this special spotlight thing,
  • and then they'd come on and do the little ten-minute,
  • eight-minute talk, whatever it was.
  • Questions were all prepared, so you
  • could come up with what you wanted to say in advance.
  • But our interview was preceded by a screen
  • on the TV, adult matter.
  • Turn the kids away, in other words.
  • You may want to turn the kids away.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh my gosh.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Yeah.
  • And of course, we didn't talk anything controversial.
  • We just talked about what The Gay Brotherhood was,
  • what our purposes were, where we're located,
  • what we expected to help, et cetera.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So obviously the--
  • BOB SWEENEY: Of course, that caused a big fury in my family,
  • because all of a sudden, whoa, I was on TV promoting what?
  • Yeah, the family reacted negatively.
  • Oh, I remember that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Subsequently, did your family kind of adjust
  • to the--
  • BOB SWEENEY: Some did and some didn't.
  • I won't go in details of every name.
  • But it was one of my mother's uncles,
  • so it was my grandmother's brother,
  • you know, called up and just-- and there
  • was a cousin that called up and just ranted and raved,
  • and blah, blah, blah.
  • And so subsequently to that, although there was still
  • heat within the local family, there were some things,
  • they'd say, well, I guess we don't
  • have to talk to them anymore, that type
  • of thing, which was supportive.
  • Even though there were some ruffled feathers
  • in the immediate family.
  • But I'd rather get that over with and deal with the fallout
  • than to never deal with it at all.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Absolutely.
  • Were your parents supportive of you as a--
  • BOB SWEENEY: OK, they were OK.
  • Understand that I was married, and I was
  • getting divorced through this.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And did you have children?
  • BOB SWEENEY: One.
  • Now lives in Richmond, Virginia, and is catching up to me
  • in age, so.
  • Got out of Rochester because of the weather.
  • Went to Plattsburgh College, and didn't like the weather
  • up there either.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: It appears, or not appears,
  • it is, in fact, the traditional process, for most gay men
  • to have been married, and then to have been
  • divorced, or for many gay men.
  • And then to recognize their own sexuality
  • and move in another direction.
  • BOB SWEENEY: And why is that?
  • Why do you think that happens?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, I assume it's societal norms that--
  • BOB SWEENEY: Peer pressure.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Or lack of information
  • that there are alternatives, you know.
  • Or the alternatives, because you had minimal information,
  • were scary.
  • That there really wasn't normal people.
  • The good news about 2012, or 2010, or 11, is all of a sudden
  • the media has done some things in a positive--
  • and whether it be comedic, or whatever.
  • The old back in the--
  • I don't know, was it '80s, maybe late '70s, of The Odd Couple,
  • of Felix and Oscar.
  • Although they're not gay, oh no, but obviously
  • the overtones were.
  • But nowadays you have Will & Grace, you know,
  • in a very positive note.
  • One's a lawyer, and et cetera, and continues.
  • There are other ones that--
  • What's the-- not in The Middle, the other one, Modern Family.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • BOB SWEENEY: So kids are seeing different light on things
  • that I-- younger people, not kids.
  • Younger people, they grow up, they
  • know there are, and not just heard about uncle.
  • Like the old mailbox, Bill and John, same name on the mailbox.
  • Underneath they have sign saying, just good friends.
  • I have a friend of mine who's a high-end doctor here in town,
  • and him and his partner lived out in one of the suburbs.
  • And he's treating a little old lady who is in her late 80's,
  • early 90's, and she questioned him, well, where do you live?
  • And he explained where.
  • He was in this small town, right in the bend in the road.
  • And she said, well, that's my town.
  • I know that house, she said.
  • I heard there were two old brothers that live there.
  • He goes, I didn't mind the part about the brothers,
  • but the old from a ninety-year-old lady,
  • that hurt.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What was the catalyst that
  • moved you to accept who you were and get divorced?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Yeah, another friend of mine
  • came to me many years ago, after I'd already
  • broken away, and done my own thing,
  • and had my own apartment, and was active in the Brotherhood.
  • This is a guy that I grew up with and had moved out of town,
  • and got married, and the whole bit.
  • And he knew exactly who I was, because I
  • wasn't hiding anything, and his name was John.
  • He showed up in my apartment one night.
  • I was in town for a meeting or something.
  • He calls me, and he says, can I come over?
  • John, geez, I'm glad you're in town.
  • Come on over.
  • So he comes over, and we have a drink or two,
  • and he's sitting there.
  • He goes to me, now, how can I divorce my wife?
  • He goes, I'm not happy.
  • I want to divorce her.
  • How can I do that?
  • I go, John, you're not ready.
  • If you have to ask me that question, you're not ready.
  • You'll know when you're ready, you'll know.
  • It'll just get to that point.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And you could not do anything else but that.
  • BOB SWEENEY: I felt that, you know, if I did anything else,
  • I wasn't being true to myself.
  • And not only myself, other people get affected by it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Sure.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Sure.
  • And so I could see what was happening.
  • Now, as we look back in hindsight,
  • you know, about three years after that, major valleys,
  • so to speak, that you have to get through and get
  • back up on the hill again, Then people
  • came to me, and more than one, and said,
  • you know, you've got a different smile on your face.
  • You're acting differently now.
  • But until you get to that plateau or that bottom,
  • you know, it's not time.
  • Just like people that are using, drinking too much, or drugs too
  • much, until they go to the bottom,
  • you can give them all the help and kicks you want
  • and they just won't change their habits and move forward.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • BOB SWEENEY: And so it happens.
  • So from what I hear, it's not a fun time
  • for the people of my generation or around my generation.
  • Hopefully it's not gotten to that point with that younger
  • generation, as they move on, they can deal with it.
  • At least the people that I run into in Albany
  • seem very comfortable.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: At a very young age.
  • BOB SWEENEY: At a younger age, yes, in their twenties.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: When you look back over your life,
  • could you ever have imagined either the Gay Alliance,
  • or gay rights, or equal rights coming to the point
  • that it has in 2012?
  • Where it is-- same sex marriage is
  • a plank of the Democratic National Committee.
  • Where we have, in this state, legalized same sex marriage.
  • We had Dignity For All Students Act, we had SONDA,
  • we had innumerable other pieces of legislation,
  • hate crime legislation on a federal level.
  • Did you, looking back, have any sense
  • or any idea that could happen?
  • BOB SWEENEY: No, you didn't really.
  • And we have moved the hockey puck forward.
  • I don't think we're there yet.
  • I think there's enough pushback yet,
  • people are trying to repeal acts and things.
  • Although it's a major step forward,
  • it's not at the goal line.
  • There's things that are being repealed,
  • and people who want to repeal them.
  • Even though they're just threatened for no reason,
  • you know.
  • They're really threatened for no reason.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were you at all affected
  • by the diagnosis of homosexuality
  • being a personality disorder, identified in the DSM-III
  • as such?
  • BOB SWEENEY: No.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now the APA, American Psychiatric
  • Association, repealed that in 1973, '74.
  • So it was--
  • BOB SWEENEY: It was around for a while, that's for sure.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: It was after that that you became involved, but--
  • BOB SWEENEY: There were communities
  • that said, send me your weak, send me your children,
  • and we'll cure them, right?
  • Remember that whole story?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were you affected by that at all?
  • Did you ever look at yourself and say,
  • I'm a person with a personality disorder?
  • BOB SWEENEY: No, not a personality disorder,
  • but when reading those articles back then, basically
  • they said, you can change.
  • And so, sure, I can change.
  • That'll be a much, much easier road
  • than having to figure out who's who,
  • where's where, what do I do, and why do we go like this,
  • and why shouldn't I like this, sure.
  • But then I saw people like--
  • so when I did go to The Gay Alliance
  • way back when, they said, are you interested in meeting
  • with anybody for counseling?
  • In fact, even my church, there was a guy
  • by the name of Doug Stump, and he was our associate pastor.
  • And I was still married at that point,
  • and so we decided to go talk to him, both me and the wife.
  • And at that point he pulled me aside.
  • He goes, listen, there's another pastor who specializes in this.
  • I don't know if you know the name Reverend Walt Szymanski.
  • So I did contact Walt, and sat down with Walt
  • on several occasions.
  • And he shed a different perspective on it,
  • a new light on it, if you will, which was very, very helpful
  • at that point.
  • So it wasn't the, you're sick, you can get cured.
  • It's, you need to deal with this.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were you ever ashamed of being a gay man?
  • BOB SWEENEY: It certainly didn't-- you didn't broadcast
  • it, let's put it that way.
  • I don't know if ashamed would be the word,
  • but you knew enough not to broadcast--
  • assimilate.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah, I'm trying to--
  • BOB SWEENEY: I had an employer one time,
  • and the name, again, will remain anonymous,
  • but I remember I worked for this company.
  • And one of the people there, who was kind of like my boss,
  • because we all worked on this team, very, very out,
  • much more effeminate acting.
  • So as a result, he was out.
  • And that was-- it was almost a little embarrassing.
  • Because this was back in--
  • this would be back in about 1962.
  • '62?
  • No, sorry, '67.
  • Out of high school, part-time college, part-time work, '67,
  • yeah.
  • And then his partner came in who was really there.
  • And of course, the rest of the employees,
  • when he was out room, would talk to me about him.
  • I go, oh.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Are you proud to be who you are today?
  • BOB SWEENEY: I'm very comfortable,
  • and I try to help others at whatever level I can.
  • I have no-- no hiding.
  • Although I'm not trying to recruit people.
  • If there's somebody out there, whatever.
  • Because I'm now with my partner.
  • We're in our twenty-seventh year, twenty-seven years
  • together.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What has given you the foundation to say,
  • Bob Sweeney is a good person.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Oh, that's like, what makes
  • the top of a Christmas tree?
  • There's all the stuff underneath that
  • has built up over the years, whether it be family, friends,
  • knowledge, social interaction, you know.
  • Can you do things better?
  • Do you want to whatever?
  • There's always improvement.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But you were never defeated by who you were.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Well, OK, I'll give you--
  • and this is more stories you wanted to hear.
  • One time I took this course, and Bob Lewis was involved.
  • Did you ever hear of--
  • oh, the nickname was--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: The Forum?
  • BOB SWEENEY: The Forum.
  • Remember that up in Toronto?
  • I took the course.
  • Understand that hopefully as a reasonable, intelligent person,
  • I could separate some of the bull
  • from some of the good stuff that they
  • were trying to feed you through the Kool-Aid, if you will.
  • And there were some good things that came out of that.
  • It was two weekends in a row, it was very regimented.
  • There was some bad stuff, there was some good stuff.
  • But basically when you boiled the two things down,
  • one thing says that even the President of the United States
  • puts his pants on one leg at a time, we're all human beings,
  • we're all people.
  • And the other thing is, the other thing that came out
  • of that is, if you live in a box and the box is big,
  • and somebody yells at you because you did something.
  • You go, OK, I'll never do that again,
  • the box gets a little smaller.
  • And somebody else yells at you, oh,
  • don't ever do that, that's wrong, the box gets smaller.
  • And so if you grow up over a life,
  • and get yelled at sometimes by various people, bosses,
  • partners, parents, whatever, and you start throwing out
  • all the stuff that you got yelled at
  • so you're in your comfort zone, you're
  • in a very small, little box.
  • And this course said, move out of the box.
  • Maybe they were wrong in yelling at you.
  • Take some chances.
  • You may be wrong again.
  • And so that course, I forget, that was number of years ago.
  • And it was reasonably expensive, 800 bucks.
  • And so I go back into my employer at that point,
  • and we're sitting down on a Monday
  • just mulling over what happened.
  • He goes, what'd you do this weekend?
  • I went, past two weekends, I went to this course.
  • I took this course.
  • And I started telling him about the box, et cetera.
  • He goes, did you have to pay for that course?
  • I go, yeah, it was pretty expensive, 800 bucks.
  • He goes, put it on your expense account.
  • I'll pay for it.
  • So had I not told him, I would never
  • have got paid for it, right?
  • Well, that's pretty good.
  • That's a positive.
  • So the next things happens, and I'm already divorced,
  • and the kid is living with my ex-wife.
  • So I have some stuff that had gone to the Hard Rock Cafe,
  • because it was held up in Toronto,
  • and bought some stuff him.
  • And I sent it out to him, saying from your father,
  • here's some stuff.
  • Well, that backfired.
  • That really backfired.
  • So some things did happen negatively.
  • But I had enough, now, from the course saying, I wasn't wrong.
  • It was just they didn't like it.
  • And so keep on going.
  • Don't ever try it, just don't always
  • expect that it will work the way you want it to.
  • So it was good.
  • So things have backfired.
  • But if you don't try it, they'll never backfire,
  • and you'll live in the little box.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What do you think--
  • you already alluded to the fact that the puck, the football
  • is in the air, but not at the goal line.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What is between now and the goal line?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Time and as much energy as we put in so far.
  • I don't think-- we've not fallen back, we're moving forward.
  • You just got to keep in front of the people,
  • in front of the neighbors.
  • For example, here on our street, we're on a cul-de-sac street.
  • We're one of the people that hosts the neighborhood parties.
  • And we don't have the mailbox saying, just good friends,
  • out there.
  • So they all--
  • I've lived for twenty-five years in this house.
  • And of course doing that one step at a time, one
  • neighbor at a time, one office person at a time
  • we'll get the backing that we need to keep this thing rolling
  • and not make it such a big, oh my gosh, the sky is falling,
  • you know, Chicken Little type of thing.
  • They'll always be people that like vanilla and people
  • that like chocolate ice cream.
  • Those people will be on the pro side
  • and they'll be some people on the negative side.
  • We just have to make sure that the pro side outweighs
  • the negative side, and it's just going to talk some time.
  • We're on the right step.
  • Hopefully nothing bad happens, but it's just going take time.
  • Do you agree?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I agree.
  • Oh, I agree.
  • BOB SWEENEY: But what we're doing it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Just one more historical question.
  • In terms of CETA, how significant
  • was it for The Gay Alliance to receive that grant?
  • BOB SWEENEY: Because we got a grant that
  • was bigger than the Girl Scouts, if I remember right.
  • I think it was the Girl Scouts organization.
  • And that was-- of course, to Charlie Schiano,
  • was just unbearable.
  • But it was significant that we became a viable agency
  • within Monroe County.
  • And that we were a legitimate agency, not this little crazy
  • group that's, again, deranged, mentally sick people.
  • That they felt that this was a viable organization.
  • And that now we could hire staff, which
  • was a whole different issue.
  • That turned out to be more of an issue than getting the money.
  • What do you do with it successfully?
  • And who runs it, and et cetera?
  • But, yeah, it was significant that we
  • were able to say that we were as good as the Girl Scouts,
  • in our outreach to a specific community,
  • just like the Girl Scouts are.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • Wow.
  • BOB SWEENEY: So that was good.
  • And that money we got renewed once,
  • I think, if I remember correct.
  • But obviously that whole program went away years ago.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • BOB SWEENEY: But that started getting community involvement,
  • other organizations, and other people joining,
  • and bringing out funds.
  • Other than that, we were just living--
  • that rent check was hand them off almost up there with--
  • Howard Cullen was the treasurer at that point.
  • I remember Howard.
  • He lives in Texas.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And you were fundraising there too.
  • There were primarily--
  • BOB SWEENEY: The picnic.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: The picnic.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Yeah, the picnic was it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Now, the picnic in those days-- in fact,
  • that first year after CETA funding, we moved the picnic.
  • Do you remember the year we moved the picnic?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: No.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Because we used to hold it always in-- well,
  • they still do, Genesee Valley Park.
  • But that's a public park.
  • And so you really can't control, keep people out
  • of the public park.
  • They still have the rights to maybe not come within the fence
  • area where we're charging money for the activity,
  • but they can certainly be any place on the grounds.
  • And so that year we ended up moving it
  • to the Barnard Exempt, a private park, way out in Greece.
  • I understood that people were complaining,
  • because that's not the city.
  • But we needed a private venue--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: In Greece.
  • BOB SWEENEY: --in Greece where we could control
  • who entered the property.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And then it went back then.
  • BOB SWEENEY: So here we are moving out to the Barnard
  • Exempt, The Gay Alliance saying, we
  • want to hold our gay pride picnic out at your facility,
  • and they were fine with it.
  • They were fine with it.
  • I remember that year.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And then it went back--
  • BOB SWEENEY: Then it went back.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --just to Genesee Valley Park.
  • BOB SWEENEY: It was only there one year.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • BOB SWEENEY: I don't know what year that was,
  • but we could look.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I don't--
  • BOB SWEENEY: It would have been in The Closet at some point.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Probably 1978 or '77.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Yeah, one of those years.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Barnard Exempt in Greece,
  • way in the middle of no place.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • Well, Bob, thank you very much.
  • BOB SWEENEY: Good.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And I'm going to turn this off.