Audio Interview, Bob Sweeney, September 8, 2012

BOB SWEENEY: --Gleason would say.

Remember that?

EVELYN BAILEY: Pardon me?

BOB SWEENEY: Jackie Gleason--

EVELYN BAILEY: Oh yeah.

BOB SWEENEY: --would say, and away we go.

EVELYN BAILEY: Away we go.

Well, I'm here with Bob Sweeney who was very active in The Gay

Alliance in the early, mid, late 70's.

And I want to begin with looking at what

Bob was like when he was seven or eight,

and then go on from there.

But you were born in Rochester.

BOB SWEENEY: Over in the northeast side,

yeah, over by Franklin High School.

Franklin High School--

EVELYN BAILEY: What was that area like at that time?

Today, of course it's--

BOB SWEENEY: It's changed, right.

Back there, of course, the streets

were named Sobieski, Kosciuszko, very heavy Polish neighborhood.

Also blended with, because it was not very far from Joseph

Avenue, the big Jewish community at that point.

So we had wonderful bakeries too,

and things like that over there.

EVELYN BAILEY: And where did you go to school?

BOB SWEENEY: Well, Franklin High School,

I went to Franklin High School.

So did my mother.

So did my uncles.

They were all from that area of town,

whether it be off of Joseph Avenue or off of--

I was off of--

I was near Pulaski Park, another Polish name--

EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, wow.

BOB SWEENEY: --which was off of Carter Street and North Street.

I grew up there and stayed there until I graduated, which was--

graduated in '65, and continued to stay in the area.

In fact, I bought the house that I grew up partially in.

I grew up on 651 Wilkins Street.

And in my high school years, my parents bought a house at 648.

So (laughs) across the street.

And then in later years, I even bought that house,

and then finally sold it and moved to the burbs.

EVELYN BAILEY: And when you graduated from high school--

BOB SWEENEY: Mm-hm, '65.

EVELYN BAILEY: --where were you off to?

BOB SWEENEY: I started working and went to college part-time,

went to MCC part-time.

EVELYN BAILEY: When did you begin to recognize, realize,

you were gay?

BOB SWEENEY: Oh, we deal with it slowly and I guess--

over the years.

And finally came to the drawing point about 1970,

'74, about '74.

EVELYN BAILEY: Were you involved with the Gay Liberation Front

at the University of Rochester at all?

BOB SWEENEY: No, no.

I came on board after that.

They had already created their own group, The Gay Brotherhood,

and there was several other groups.

And they had already moved to the old firehouse

on Monroe Avenue.

You know, when you walked down that side alley.

Remember walking down there?

And up the back staircase, it was all kind of scary,

especially if you didn't know exactly where you're going

or what was behind closed doors.

EVELYN BAILEY: How did you find The Gay Alliance?

BOB SWEENEY: I think the phone book.

My recollection was other people with the three eyes

and, you know, horns, and things like that.

So I looked in the phone book, found

the address, ventured down in broad daylight, of course.

EVELYN BAILEY: And so you knew no one.

BOB SWEENEY: No, no, knew no one.

EVELYN BAILEY: And what did you find when

you walked up the back stairs?

And someone at the top must have opened the door.

BOB SWEENEY: Yep, somebody was there,

and I don't remember who.

It could have been people like, at that point,

people like Michael Robertson were involved, Mark Connolly.

I don't know if you know that name at all.

He was involved.

Bill-- what was it, Bill Connolly.

Mark, what was Mark's last time, I can remember.

Now, Mark moved to Boston, Bill moved to Buffalo.

It was the old regime, so to speak, back then.

So somebody greeted me, and we talked for, you know, fifteen,

twenty minutes.

And told me the times that the group met,

and whatever, up in the sunken room up there,

if you remember that.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

BOB SWEENEY: And so at one point,

I don't know if it was the following week, two

weeks, or a month later, you know, I showed back up.

EVELYN BAILEY: And when did you become an officer?

BOB SWEENEY: Involved in it and more just than a visitor?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

BOB SWEENEY: Oh boy.

Probably within six or seven months.

I remember my first input was they asked me,

what could I help with, what would I mind doing,

and what would, you know--

And I said well, I can type.

So they said, oh, we've got a spot for you

to help us with the newspaper, The Empty Closet.

And it was after--

remember the fire that was Jay's Place?

EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.

BOB SWEENEY: And they had moved The Empty Closet

(unintelligible).

And I remember that the typewriter

at that point, the Selectric typewriter,

was over Whitey's house.

And so it was Mark, Mark-- whatever his last name was.

I'll have to look that up.

EVELYN BAILEY: Mark Shork?

BOB SWEENEY: No.

Mark Connolly or something like that.

I can show you a picture of him.

Said, OK, let's meet over at Whitey's house,

and we'll have you help us type up The Empty Closet.

So I sat there for one afternoon typing up The Empty Closet,

making paragraphs out of it and things.

EVELYN BAILEY: And was that--

BOB SWEENEY: That's when I started to get involved,

and people--

EVELYN BAILEY: The eight and a half by eleven?

Or did you write--

BOB SWEENEY: I think these were being typed up and then pasted

up into the bigger stuff.

Because shortly after that, Tim took over the editorial of it.

And that's when after-- then we finally

moved it to above Friers, the second floor of Friers

at that point.

And I stuck around helping out with that.

And then I went on to do other things for The Gay Brotherhood

at that point.

And then after that, they moved it over to University Avenue.

And I wasn't involved.

I've been there a couple of times down in the chicken wire

fenced in area, if you remember that--

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

BOB SWEENEY: --when Tim was actively involved with it.

EVELYN BAILEY: And then in 1977, the opportunity

arose for The Gay Alliance to apply for a CETA grant

from the federal government.

And you were president or vice president of the Alliance?

BOB SWEENEY: President or vice president, not of the Alliance,

of the Brotherhood, of the Brotherhood, yeah.

I was never an officer in The Gay Alliance itself,

the parent company, if you will, the umbrella company, but more

on the Brotherhood level.

Yeah, and it was John Noble's idea to say,

hey, there's this money available.

Look at what's going on.

They're giving out money like crazy.

At that point he said, let's do it.

And I said, I'm able to write grants.

I do it all time.

So we formed a committee, a small committee,

which was Tim Mains, Michael Robertson, John

Noble, obviously, and then myself from the Brotherhood,

and prepared papers to submit the grant,

submit the request for money.

And then that's when the action started, if you will.

EVELYN BAILEY: Now what was the grant for?

What were you writing this grant for?

BOB SWEENEY: For staffing purposes,

so we could hire some staff to really formally get

this organization at the next level,

to have a director or somebody that was full-time.

Because right now, at that point,

everybody was just volunteers, and also giving

what we could give as far as knowledge and input.

So they felt that it was more important to have somebody

heading the ship and organizing this thing,

and getting public recognition of our (interposing voices)

And we're still over on Monroe Avenue at that point, upstairs

over the old fire hall, which was The Genesee Co-op

at that point downstairs.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

And when you wrote the grant, you

were the one who actually wrote it.

BOB SWEENEY: No, John Noble wrote it.

Now, he was also employed by the city at that point.

He had already written a proposal for grant money,

and I'm not sure if it was from CETA or not, I can't say that,

but is was grant money.

He already-- his position, which was archivist at that point,

was a grant-funded position.

And so he was--

knowing how to write grants, and the right things to say,

and what not to say, what really triggers grant people to say,

oh, this is worthwhile, etc.

He wrote it, but he said, I really

can't pen my name to it because of the exposure.

So it was all agreed that Michael Robertson, and I

believe Michael at that point, was head of the GAGV,

he was the director, chair, whatever you want to call it.

EVELYN BAILEY: President of the board.

BOB SWEENEY: President of the board--

that he would sign it, and we'd be all set.

Well, it turned out that Michael, at that point,

was traveling back and forth, because of his partner,

to Iowa.

And on a very short notice, something

turned up this had to be turned in (laughs).

Somebody had to sign it.

EVELYN BAILEY: Deadline.

BOB SWEENEY: Deadline, and Michael

was not physically here.

So I go, give me that paper, give me a pen,

and I'll sign it.

So I just put a name down.

In fact, I don't think I've ever read

the proposal (Bailey laughs).

But knowing that John had written it,

and I was very confident that this was something

that the committee, whoever was reviewing the grants,

would look highly on and hopefully obtain funding,

I signed it away.

And so we then got it to the people that

were responsible for doing the CETA money

and got it in under the deadline.

EVELYN BAILEY: Did you attend any of the city council

meetings at which the grant was to be, kind of approved?

BOB SWEENEY: Yes, I remember going to one.

And that was the one where, not only I went, but we organized,

I don't know, twenty-five, thirty--

it looked like a huge group.

But, you know, when you're in the chambers up there,

and the seats are all full, and we're all standing back,

it looked like a huge group.

And we were there when they, you know,

all the uproar came from the peanut gallery, if you will.

And finally, the city council tabled the whole thing,

because they knew it was going to be--

it was getting to be very questionable and argumentative

within the group.

So I remember Tim Mains being there at that point,

and I think Michael had already come back, so he was with us.

EVELYN BAILEY: And who was on city council that--

BOB SWEENEY: You're pushing my gray hair.

EVELYN BAILEY: Charlie Schiano?

BOB SWEENEY: I think Schiano was there, yeah,

I'm remember him, good old Charlie.

Of course, he was one of the vocal people against the type

of thing like that.

Bill Johnson was the mayor, and Jeff Carlson was the assistant.

EVELYN BAILEY: Well, Bill Johnson

was head of the Urban League.

BOB SWEENEY: Urban League, right.

Who was the mayor at that point?

Oh, it was what's his name.

He had been around for a long time.

EVELYN BAILEY: Ryan?

BOB SWEENEY: Ryan.

Ryan was the mayor at that point, yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: Outside of city council chambers and outside

of writing the CETA grant, do you

remember how the community, in general, in Rochester

looked upon--

not Schiano, I mean--

Charlie Schiano had a particular focus in opposition.

BOB SWEENEY: And ax to bear, yeah, right.

He liked to get his name in the paper by making waves

and that he thought would get him support.

And, you know, there's certainly a group

of people that would rally around his banter.

EVELYN BAILEY: But outside of him,

in terms of the community in general,

do you have any sense of how they

looked upon the Gay Alliance or how

they looked upon gay people?

BOB SWEENEY: I don't think it was very vocal at all.

I think it was pretty quiet.

It wasn't supportive or it wasn't negative,

it was just quiet.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall receiving any phone calls that

were threatening, or abusive, or either

to The Gay Brotherhood, or?

BOB SWEENEY: No, no, I don't remember any of that,

no, just went on business as usual.

Certainly when the-- brought up on council,

I heard that people at the council got phone calls.

And I guess that was one of the reasons

that they passed the hot potato, if you

will, for even all the grant reviews

onto a different agency.

Because they don't feel they were qualified to,

or wanted to take, the position of allowing or denying

anything, because they just wanted

to wipe their hands a little clean and say,

you know, we've turned it over.

EVELYN BAILEY: It was, I think, the Community Chest that--

BOB SWEENEY: Correct.

EVELYN BAILEY: --originally was the conduit.

BOB SWEENEY: Right, they were off of St. Paul Street,

sitting in the Chamber of Commerce building downstairs.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

BOB SWEENEY: They passed it off to them

and they didn't realize they got such a hot potato either.

Because it, apparently, clogged up their phone system one day.

They couldn't make outgoing calls at all.

EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.

BOB SWEENEY: Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: That's pretty significant.

BOB SWEENEY: Right.

They had so many people calling it.

And I'm not sure--

I don't know the relationship of the calls, whether pro

or against, but it clogged up their phone system that they

couldn't operate one day.

And it was in the paper, I remember that.

So they wanted to pass it off now.

They go, this isn't for us either.

And that's when they passed it off to well, Bill Johnson's

group, which was the Urban League at that point, right?

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

BOB SWEENEY: That's when he was involved with them.

EVELYN BAILEY: Now, let's move away from CETA and look at--

besides the Gay Alliance in the early '70s,

what other resources were available to the community?

Where else would the community find groups of people

that they could interact with, that they could share life

with?

BOB SWEENEY: I don't know of any, I really don't.

Buffalo had the Mattachine Society up there,

Rochester had The Gay Alliance, a group that

had been around for a while.

The Mattachine was older than us.

But that was it that I knew of, other than the typical,

figure out where the bars are.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

Now, after Stone Wall in '69, over 400 Gay Liberation Front

groups arose all over the country,

mostly on college campuses.

BOB SWEENEY: Where Whitey got involved with the University

of Rochester.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

By 1974, they were still active, but they weren't as politically

active, the U of R group, as they were--

BOB SWEENEY: Socially--

EVELYN BAILEY: --prior to The Gay Alliance breaking off,

or the group splitting.

Do you recall how--

now, explain to me, The Gay Brotherhood

was the group that actually broke off from the U of R, or?

BOB SWEENEY: Not sure, I won't comment on that.

I got involved when there was The Gay Brotherhood,

and had already broken off.

EVELYN BAILEY: Was there a women's group?

BOB SWEENEY: There was, and I can't remember the name of it.

Do you remember at all?

EVELYN BAILEY: GROW.

BOB SWEENEY: Was is GROW?

Patti Evans.

EVELYN BAILEY: Pattie Evans.

BOB SWEENEY: Right.

And that's when the other two groups

decided to form a common group, the Gay Alliance of the Genesee

Valley.

And then we also were part of the New York State one.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yes, NYSGA.

BOB SWEENEY: NYSGA.

And we used to go to Albany for meetings,

and lobbying, and things like that back in those days.

EVELYN BAILEY: And what were you lobbying for?

BOB SWEENEY: I remember Bob Lewis

being very active in there.

Me, Michael, we traveled to Albany

to their organization, their gay alliance, if you will,

which is still on Hudson Street by the way.

It's still on Hudson Street, because I

have a place in Albany.

And I haven't been to it, but I know people who go there.

I guess just for recognition and, you know,

making sure that we were known.

EVELYN BAILEY: Were the sodomy laws still in--

BOB SWEENEY: They were, they were, they were.

EVELYN BAILEY: So would you have been--

BOB SWEENEY: We weren't that big or that organized yet.

We were trying to raise money to hire somebody for a lobbying.

That was the main group of all of us getting together,

so we'd have a lobbyist.

And we did hire a guy by name of John Narik for a while,

I know that.

A younger fellow who was a graduate from Rensselaer

Polytech.

And we also had a couple lawyers up there, partners.

two guys.

Joe something, oh, boy, I'll have to look in the notes.

So we wanted a lobbyist, to have people to go around and prove

to the legislative people that were the reps for all

across the state, that we were a group that

should be recognized.

So we got some money.

EVELYN BAILEY: The Gay Brotherhood,

what was its purpose?

BOB SWEENEY: Mainly social, mainly social, we had meetings,

I think they were once a week.

I don't remember the night, maybe Sunday nights,

but we'd have a social thing.

And it was social/educational.

So we'd bring in speakers or have

a program that lasted, you know, an hour or so,

try to spread the word, try to help with the distribution

of the newspaper at that point.

We used to take the newspaper, when it came out once

a month, a bunch of us after the meeting would, you know,

grab papers and go down to the different bars

and stand and hand them out, and things like that.

So it was trying to get people together outside of just

the alcoholic scene of the bars and do social activities.

Certainly there was a-- every year

we sponsored a trip to see how many people would join us

for the New York City Pride days,

and go down to New York City Pride, and stuff like that.

So take the train down, a whole bunch of us.

EVELYN BAILEY: In your experience, as a gay man,

have you ever been discriminated against?

Have you ever been assaulted or attacked?

BOB SWEENEY: I can honestly say I don't have any recollections

of that, I really don't.

If there were any, it would be more, I think, contrived.

But, no, and that's been a positive thing.

But then again, there are different ways

that people interact, and they're all legitimate.

Don't get me wrong.

I'm not saying the way I interact is one way is best.

Obviously, I have a lot of people

I know, especially more now so in Albany,

because just I'm out.

I'm away from Jerry in Albany, my partner.

And so being a social person, I interact with people up there.

And some of the younger people are very much more--

outgoing presence of, you know, their needs or their

wants, and act somewhat differently.

You know, my job and my things I've always enjoyed,

I am what I am, and so I've never had that issue.

EVELYN BAILEY: Would you identify yourself as out?

BOB SWEENEY: Never deny.

Certainly at the office, although I'm not--

I have another associate at my office who is very pushy,

forward, even at meetings.

That's just not me.

So everybody obviously knows who I am,

and my partner and I go to company functions

when I feel like going.

In fact, they always ask, bring Jerry,

why aren't you coming, etc.

For example, I had a business associate from Baltimore

over the other night.

A married gentleman, nice guy, wife, family, and I

had him over for dinner, and he's

encouraging me to use his home that they

have up in Maine at times.

We're just people.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right

BOB SWEENEY: No.

So if you treat people like that instead of trying to shove--

anything, even them shoving down my throat, anything that--

So we get along well.

EVELYN BAILEY: Now, in terms of--

you graduated from Franklin.

You went to--

BOB SWEENEY: MCC for a couple years, part-time.

EVELYN BAILEY: And then?

BOB SWEENEY: Always stayed in Rochester.

I did one little stint out of town for a-- but not very far.

EVELYN BAILEY: After MCC, did you go on?

BOB SWEENEY: Nope, no, I already had a position,

that I had a wonderful mentor for a boss.

We used to kid, my boss, he was a frustrated schoolteacher.

And if you ever asked a question,

he'd explained things in great detail

as far as the technology of it, because it's

more a technical program, to the point that we always kid.

I would say, never ask a Dutch what time

it is, because he'll tell you how to build a watch

(Bailey laughs).

And so I learned from him quite well.

And as a result, I made a reasonably good living

in that technology group.

And people said, you haven't got a four-year degree?

No.

In fact, I heard a guy about six years ago now,

he's taken over my Rochester job, great person.

In fact, we travel together all the time,

and share a hotel room, and we get along.

And I always kid him, I'll come out and fix your tie.

It's a little crooked.

But he came out at college with six years.

He had gone for years, and stayed on for two more years.

Came on board with me.

Although he understood the technology,

still had to be taught, had to learn.

And it's great to see him now pick it up,

because I also, if he ever asked a question,

I told him how to build a watch.

So some of the college stuff you learn,

although it may be theory of Ohm's law,

you need to know how to apply it in different applications.

So I teach engineers right now.

I go around providing education courses that have CEU and PDH

credits for the state education department for engineering

firms.

EVELYN BAILEY: How important, in your opinion,

is a high school diploma, a college diploma, and beyond?

How important is that, not from an LGBT perspective,

but from your--

BOB SWEENEY: Just in general life.

It all depends where you surface and what you really like to do.

I just met a gentleman the other day--

not the other day, it was about two months ago, Chris.

He's from the Albany area, now lives down closer to the city.

Was going to Saint Rose College.

I don't know if you know that.

EVELYN BAILEY: I do.

BOB SWEENEY: It's an education college up in Albany.

Went there two years and just didn't like it.

And he is now in construction work.

He works for a firm that rehabs buildings in New York City.

And he just loves what he's doing.

He has a smile on his face.

EVELYN BAILEY: High school diploma?

BOB SWEENEY: High school diploma, two years of college,

but decided teaching professional wasn't for him.

This John Narik I talked about went to Rensselaer Polytech

and got a chemical engineering degree.

And the last I heard he's a librarian.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

BOB SWEENEY: So I guess somebody that

wants to become something in their field and does it--

Joe Packis I don't know if you know Joe Packis

four-year degree in optical engineering

from the University of Rochester, one of the few.

There's, I don't know, half a dozen colleges in the United

States that have this optical engineering degree

level that the University of Rochester offers.

And U of R is not a cheap school.

You know what he's doing now?

He's working for a testing firm that he helps proofread tests

that this firm sends out to high schools

and colleges for testing math.

EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.

BOB SWEENEY: Math questions.

So he proofreads the math questions

to make sure that they're correct and et cetera.

So is a college degree important?

For some, yes.

For some, not.

EVELYN BAILEY: High school?

BOB SWEENEY: Oh, absolutely, high school, yeah.

You better know how to count change.

And some of the people I know in Albany didn't.

They took the easy road out.

They wanted to party to hard.

But they've gone back, most of them, and got their GEDs.

You need that for basic education, you know.

But if you can find a position, that's something you like,

you can excel in it.

EVELYN BAILEY: Is the company that you work

for currently LGBT friendly?

Does it have, included in its policies and HR, benefits?

BOB SWEENEY: Yes.

It's a single one line statement, or three,

or whatever it says, yeah.

They are, they are.

No discrimination based on blah, blah, blah.

Although we are a small company.

We're less than 100 employees.

EVELYN BAILEY: But in traveling around,

do you find that piece important to people?

BOB SWEENEY: I would hope so.

I'm not sure I do or not, but I hope it would be.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

BOB SWEENEY: Certainly our major companies in Rochester

have stepped forward, wouldn't you agree with that?

EVELYN BAILEY: I would, yeah.

BOB SWEENEY: They have stepped forward.

And, you know, it's not costing them anything,

and yet it's getting them positive reactions for that.

Interesting, I went to a hotel--

this is a story Jerry doesn't even know.

Took a friend of mine, went out of town,

I have to stay in Albany.

And I said, oh, let's head up to Springfield.

So I checked in at a hotel and they said they have a king bed.

And they looked at me and the guy that was with me,

and they go, oh.

Oh, we got you in a king bed.

Don't worry, we're going out, just we're sleeping.

And it turned out the next morning, we go down,

see the same desk clerk at this nice hotel,

it was a reasonably nice hotel.

And they had a breakfast, and he comes over,

and has a cup of coffee, and he tells me

about him and his partner and how they just adopted kids,

and everything else like that.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

BOB SWEENEY: It's interesting.

EVELYN BAILEY: When you look back

at your involvement in The Gay Brotherhood and The Gay

Alliance, what are you most proud of, Bob?

BOB SWEENEY: Well, probably selfishly,

just that I got over that hurdle, you know.

That was more-- although, I hoped I helped other things,

and made statements, and CETA, and whatever else.

And then I moved on, because I wanted other people to do it.

I hate organizations that a person

self-perpetuates and doesn't give

other people opportunities.

But it was, really, it was mind-boggling to deal

with the community on a different level

than over a drink.

The time that-- this was after CETA money.

I think we already had CETA money at that point.

And there was news at noon, Channel ten, I think.

Channel ten?

No.

EVELYN BAILEY: Thirteen?

BOB SWEENEY: It was Channel eight,

because I remember going down to Humboldt Street

at their studios down there.

And it was Margaret Graham Smith was the news broadcaster, who

always did a segment at the noon news of a community highlight

or something, and had an interview scene.

And so I got the call, I don't know,

because I guess I was president of The Gay Brotherhood

at that point.

I got the call from the news team down.

There they said they would like to do one of the spotlights

on The Gay Brotherhood of Rochester,

and would I come down and do the interview

with Margaret Graham Smith.

Sure.

And so I went to Darrell--

What was Darrell's last name?

EVELYN BAILEY: Porter?

BOB SWEENEY: No.

The minister that we hired to run the CETA--

was our first employee, and Darrell was his first name,

and his last name was--

I've got his card downstairs.

He was the associate pastor of my church, by the way.

A big downtown church, and we hired him to be the director,

our first paid employee.

I remember saying, well, Darrell, I've

got to go down to this interview.

He said, I'll go with you.

And so we went down and did the interview at noon for them.

Of course, this was normally when the news came on.

They broke away from the news, and then they

went to this special spotlight thing,

and then they'd come on and do the little ten-minute,

eight-minute talk, whatever it was.

Questions were all prepared, so you

could come up with what you wanted to say in advance.

But our interview was preceded by a screen

on the TV, adult matter.

Turn the kids away, in other words.

You may want to turn the kids away.

EVELYN BAILEY: Oh my gosh.

BOB SWEENEY: Yeah.

And of course, we didn't talk anything controversial.

We just talked about what The Gay Brotherhood was,

what our purposes were, where we're located,

what we expected to help, et cetera.

EVELYN BAILEY: So obviously the--

BOB SWEENEY: Of course, that caused a big fury in my family,

because all of a sudden, whoa, I was on TV promoting what?

Yeah, the family reacted negatively.

Oh, I remember that.

EVELYN BAILEY: Subsequently, did your family kind of adjust

to the--

BOB SWEENEY: Some did and some didn't.

I won't go in details of every name.

But it was one of my mother's uncles,

so it was my grandmother's brother,

you know, called up and just-- and there

was a cousin that called up and just ranted and raved,

and blah, blah, blah.

And so subsequently to that, although there was still

heat within the local family, there were some things,

they'd say, well, I guess we don't

have to talk to them anymore, that type

of thing, which was supportive.

Even though there were some ruffled feathers

in the immediate family.

But I'd rather get that over with and deal with the fallout

than to never deal with it at all.

EVELYN BAILEY: Absolutely.

Were your parents supportive of you as a--

BOB SWEENEY: OK, they were OK.

Understand that I was married, and I was

getting divorced through this.

EVELYN BAILEY: And did you have children?

BOB SWEENEY: One.

Now lives in Richmond, Virginia, and is catching up to me

in age, so.

Got out of Rochester because of the weather.

Went to Plattsburgh College, and didn't like the weather

up there either.

EVELYN BAILEY: It appears, or not appears,

it is, in fact, the traditional process, for most gay men

to have been married, and then to have been

divorced, or for many gay men.

And then to recognize their own sexuality

and move in another direction.

BOB SWEENEY: And why is that?

Why do you think that happens?

EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, I assume it's societal norms that--

BOB SWEENEY: Peer pressure.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

BOB SWEENEY: Or lack of information

that there are alternatives, you know.

Or the alternatives, because you had minimal information,

were scary.

That there really wasn't normal people.

The good news about 2012, or 2010, or 11, is all of a sudden

the media has done some things in a positive--

and whether it be comedic, or whatever.

The old back in the--

I don't know, was it '80s, maybe late '70s, of The Odd Couple,

of Felix and Oscar.

Although they're not gay, oh no, but obviously

the overtones were.

But nowadays you have Will & Grace, you know,

in a very positive note.

One's a lawyer, and et cetera, and continues.

There are other ones that--

What's the-- not in The Middle, the other one, Modern Family.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

BOB SWEENEY: So kids are seeing different light on things

that I-- younger people, not kids.

Younger people, they grow up, they

know there are, and not just heard about uncle.

Like the old mailbox, Bill and John, same name on the mailbox.

Underneath they have sign saying, just good friends.

I have a friend of mine who's a high-end doctor here in town,

and him and his partner lived out in one of the suburbs.

And he's treating a little old lady who is in her late 80's,

early 90's, and she questioned him, well, where do you live?

And he explained where.

He was in this small town, right in the bend in the road.

And she said, well, that's my town.

I know that house, she said.

I heard there were two old brothers that live there.

He goes, I didn't mind the part about the brothers,

but the old from a ninety-year-old lady,

that hurt.

EVELYN BAILEY: What was the catalyst that

moved you to accept who you were and get divorced?

BOB SWEENEY: Yeah, another friend of mine

came to me many years ago, after I'd already

broken away, and done my own thing,

and had my own apartment, and was active in the Brotherhood.

This is a guy that I grew up with and had moved out of town,

and got married, and the whole bit.

And he knew exactly who I was, because I

wasn't hiding anything, and his name was John.

He showed up in my apartment one night.

I was in town for a meeting or something.

He calls me, and he says, can I come over?

John, geez, I'm glad you're in town.

Come on over.

So he comes over, and we have a drink or two,

and he's sitting there.

He goes to me, now, how can I divorce my wife?

He goes, I'm not happy.

I want to divorce her.

How can I do that?

I go, John, you're not ready.

If you have to ask me that question, you're not ready.

You'll know when you're ready, you'll know.

It'll just get to that point.

EVELYN BAILEY: And you could not do anything else but that.

BOB SWEENEY: I felt that, you know, if I did anything else,

I wasn't being true to myself.

And not only myself, other people get affected by it.

EVELYN BAILEY: Sure.

BOB SWEENEY: Sure.

And so I could see what was happening.

Now, as we look back in hindsight,

you know, about three years after that, major valleys,

so to speak, that you have to get through and get

back up on the hill again, Then people

came to me, and more than one, and said,

you know, you've got a different smile on your face.

You're acting differently now.

But until you get to that plateau or that bottom,

you know, it's not time.

Just like people that are using, drinking too much, or drugs too

much, until they go to the bottom,

you can give them all the help and kicks you want

and they just won't change their habits and move forward.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

BOB SWEENEY: And so it happens.

So from what I hear, it's not a fun time

for the people of my generation or around my generation.

Hopefully it's not gotten to that point with that younger

generation, as they move on, they can deal with it.

At least the people that I run into in Albany

seem very comfortable.

EVELYN BAILEY: At a very young age.

BOB SWEENEY: At a younger age, yes, in their twenties.

EVELYN BAILEY: When you look back over your life,

could you ever have imagined either the Gay Alliance,

or gay rights, or equal rights coming to the point

that it has in 2012?

Where it is-- same sex marriage is

a plank of the Democratic National Committee.

Where we have, in this state, legalized same sex marriage.

We had Dignity For All Students Act, we had SONDA,

we had innumerable other pieces of legislation,

hate crime legislation on a federal level.

Did you, looking back, have any sense

or any idea that could happen?

BOB SWEENEY: No, you didn't really.

And we have moved the hockey puck forward.

I don't think we're there yet.

I think there's enough pushback yet,

people are trying to repeal acts and things.

Although it's a major step forward,

it's not at the goal line.

There's things that are being repealed,

and people who want to repeal them.

Even though they're just threatened for no reason,

you know.

They're really threatened for no reason.

EVELYN BAILEY: Were you at all affected

by the diagnosis of homosexuality

being a personality disorder, identified in the DSM-III

as such?

BOB SWEENEY: No.

EVELYN BAILEY: Now the APA, American Psychiatric

Association, repealed that in 1973, '74.

So it was--

BOB SWEENEY: It was around for a while, that's for sure.

EVELYN BAILEY: It was after that that you became involved, but--

BOB SWEENEY: There were communities

that said, send me your weak, send me your children,

and we'll cure them, right?

Remember that whole story?

EVELYN BAILEY: Were you affected by that at all?

Did you ever look at yourself and say,

I'm a person with a personality disorder?

BOB SWEENEY: No, not a personality disorder,

but when reading those articles back then, basically

they said, you can change.

And so, sure, I can change.

That'll be a much, much easier road

than having to figure out who's who,

where's where, what do I do, and why do we go like this,

and why shouldn't I like this, sure.

But then I saw people like--

so when I did go to The Gay Alliance

way back when, they said, are you interested in meeting

with anybody for counseling?

In fact, even my church, there was a guy

by the name of Doug Stump, and he was our associate pastor.

And I was still married at that point,

and so we decided to go talk to him, both me and the wife.

And at that point he pulled me aside.

He goes, listen, there's another pastor who specializes in this.

I don't know if you know the name Reverend Walt Szymanski.

So I did contact Walt, and sat down with Walt

on several occasions.

And he shed a different perspective on it,

a new light on it, if you will, which was very, very helpful