Audio Interview, Dan Meyers, May 21, 2012

  • (side conversation)
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I've been wanting to do this for years.
  • And now that we have the records,
  • and the documents, and the, kind of, organized.
  • And we know EEC is online.
  • And I can more easily do the research,
  • but I want to go back to pre-1960.
  • One of the things, Dan, is that your involvement very early on,
  • I want remembered.
  • And I want Jerry Algozer's involvement remembered--
  • and the people who got together to bring it about.
  • And it's important to have your own words, your own reflections
  • on that, versus what I might say,
  • or what the empty closet might say, or anyone else.
  • So at that first event, which was at Village Gate,
  • you did not expect the crowd that you got.
  • DAN MEYERS: No, we certainly didn't.
  • We selected hosts by--
  • we invited people to be hosts.
  • And then we let an open invitation for people
  • to volunteer to be hosts.
  • And you know, you send out these packages.
  • And you have no idea whether folks are going
  • to really use them or not.
  • And you also, you know--
  • we send them as many as they said they needed.
  • But you had no idea whether they were
  • going to use them all or not.
  • And so our hope was that we'd have 100 or 150 people.
  • That's what we were hoping.
  • And we had arranged for desserts.
  • We had fabulous desserts that were all donated.
  • We had arranged for terrific entertainment.
  • Jerry took care of all the entertainment.
  • And we thought people would be coming
  • for after dinner drinks, since they'd all had a nice dinner
  • at somebody's home before.
  • And that they'd be, sort of, coasting into the evening.
  • People arrived a little later than we
  • expected, because everybody was having a good time at dinner.
  • People were, sort of, surprised to find other people at Village
  • Gate, which was still--
  • you know, it hadn't really transformed yet.
  • And it wasn't really established.
  • So it was the perfect kind of place for an offbeat party.
  • Neil Parisella turned the barest bones room
  • into this very interesting space by using every garbage
  • bag available in Monroe County.
  • We lined the walls in this industrial space
  • with black garbage bags, and then uplit it from the floor.
  • So I mean, you didn't know whether you were looking
  • at satin, or the most bizarre wall covering you'd ever seen,
  • or whatever.
  • And there was a black and white floor in the middle
  • that we painted.
  • And we had the baby grand piano from the RPO
  • sitting in the middle of the floor for entertainment.
  • And people started drinking.
  • And people started dancing.
  • And people started having a really good time.
  • And it was a flat-out, rip-roaring, great time.
  • And everybody was so pleased to be there.
  • And was so pleased to see more people, and to see people
  • they hadn't seen, and to see people that they knew.
  • And I think people were very empowered
  • that they were able to come and do something about AIDS
  • rather than hiding and burying their head,
  • because it wasn't said out loud much.
  • And it was scary.
  • And this took the scare, and created some kind of power
  • that meant we could do something about it.
  • And then, you know, I don't remember how much we raised.
  • But I know we had hoped to raise $10,000.
  • And I think before we were done, it was somewhere-- thirty,
  • forty-- even more than that by the time we were all done.
  • People were enormously generous.
  • I mean, this wasn't where people were, sort of, putting $10
  • or $20 in the pot.
  • I mean, there were many gifts of that size,
  • but there were lots more of much bigger size,
  • because people really wanted to do something.
  • Everything was donated.
  • We didn't pay for the paper for the invitations.
  • We didn't pay any of the hosts for anything they did.
  • We didn't pay for any of the entertainment.
  • All the desserts were donated.
  • So everything was-- and that was one of our guiding principles,
  • is we weren't going to spend any money to raise the money.
  • Gary Sweet and his team took care of the bar.
  • They were terrific.
  • But, you know, about an hour into it,
  • they had to go back to the their bar and get more booze,
  • because they were just absolutely hammered.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And was it just you and Jerry Algozer?
  • DAN MEYERS: Well, we were the co-Chairs.
  • But there was a committee of--
  • I don't know-- ten to fourteen people.
  • I probably have the lists of names.
  • Everybody had a part of it that they did.
  • We all started working Friday night
  • to turn this big industrial room into something
  • that looked like something.
  • We were all, sort of, giddy-high,
  • because, you know how you work really hard to get something
  • done by a deadline.
  • And you're not sure.
  • And then it starts taking shape.
  • And then it gets really interesting.
  • And I remember my boyfriend at the time
  • had to learn how to make box pleats
  • to use this black plastic stuff to make
  • box pleats on all the tables.
  • I think he could still make box pleats in his sleep.
  • Phyllis Contestable did one of the big song and dance numbers
  • from Nunsense.
  • Nunsense was just opening, so this was brand new.
  • And of course, Jerry was the Director of that.
  • So you know, and she absolutely stole the show.
  • And you know, it was fabulous.
  • It was like a night on Broadway.
  • It was really terrific.
  • There was more entertainment.
  • There were the drag queens.
  • There were some musical, and then there
  • was just pounding dance music, which was just great.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: How did you think about the idea?
  • Who originated the, kind of, thought that this is something
  • that you needed to do?
  • DAN MEYERS: We gathered a group of friends.
  • And some of the friends brought friends.
  • And we sat around a table in my office
  • for three or four nights, probably a few weeks apart.
  • And we just brainstormed all sorts of things
  • that we could do.
  • And then I charged the group to, sort of,
  • figure out which one of these ideas
  • could take as many parts of it as possible,
  • so that we could have one big event rather than 800
  • little ones.
  • So some of the things fell off, like, you know,
  • some kind of a bowl-athon, or something,
  • because that just didn't work.
  • So we added as many things into this event as we could have,
  • like the entertainment, and so on.
  • And then we came up with the idea.
  • The Community Foundation had just
  • started doing Evening Out At Home,
  • where people were invited to people's homes.
  • We didn't feel we needed to be quite that
  • elegant or exclusive.
  • But the same idea-- if we got people started at homes,
  • they would probably come in groups as opposed
  • to trying to recruit them one on one.
  • And we'd also save the cost of providing a dinner.
  • So it was as much about economy as it was, sort of,
  • a built-in audience.
  • And then the rest of it just, sort of, followed.
  • What do you do?
  • Well, you have dessert.
  • You have entertainment.
  • You have some drinks.
  • You dance, you-- you know, whatever.
  • And so, you know, we figured that this was the most
  • cost-effective way to do it.
  • As I said before, we were determined
  • not to spend any money to raise the money.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Why did you do it?
  • What prompted you?
  • Or what was the catalyst that, in your minds,
  • said we needed to raise money?
  • And it was for victims of HIV.
  • It was for, primarily, at that time, men, who--
  • DAN MEYERS: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --who had--
  • DAN MEYERS: They were my friends.
  • Bill Valenti asked Jerry and I if we would do something
  • to help the clinic.
  • And it was that simple.
  • And we said, yes.
  • And we wanted to make sure that anybody had access
  • to good health care, because health care was so important.
  • At that point, AIDS Rochester and the clinic
  • were not aligned.
  • They weren't enemies by any way, but there
  • wasn't alignment there.
  • And there had been a million small fundraisers
  • for AIDS Rochester.
  • There had been nothing for the clinic.
  • And the clinic was still at Strong.
  • It was part of the Infectious Disease Center.
  • And Bill was worried that, you know,
  • that there wouldn't be enough money for him to see patients
  • if they didn't come with their own insurance
  • or their own ability to pay.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Can you talk a little bit
  • about the funding that wasn't there that--
  • DAN MEYERS: There wasn't any.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --was there later?
  • DAN MEYERS: Well, there wasn't any funding.
  • I mean, you know, this was not talked about.
  • So if it's invisible, it's really hard to attract funding.
  • So were there little, tiny pockets of money
  • that were available?
  • Yeah, there were little tiny pockets of money.
  • But this was not the kind of public--
  • I mean, we'd had a President at that time
  • that didn't say AIDS out loud.
  • I mean, it-- if you don't say it, it doesn't exist.
  • So I mean, what are we?
  • Three or four years into the epidemic, probably two or three
  • years into it in terms of Rochester's
  • understanding that this was something more than one-off.
  • Because in the beginning, as people got sick, it was,
  • well there was something-- you know,
  • they had something different, or whatever.
  • It was getting to be really clear
  • that people got really sick.
  • And in the absence of having good health care, they died.
  • And you know, we had all been to far too many funerals
  • of far too many young men.
  • And they were just like us, so this
  • was as personal as it gets.
  • You know, and I'd have to say, sitting around that table,
  • I think all of us were wondering whether we were next.
  • So this a very individual, personal response
  • on everybody's part.
  • People were doing this out of love,
  • and I'd say out of fear, and out of some sense
  • that somebody had to do something
  • about this, because this had to be addressed.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And how long did you stay involved
  • with HPA in a leadership role?
  • Or in a--
  • DAN MEYERS: Jerry and I chaired the first one.
  • I chaired the second one.
  • We asked one of the Jeffreys to chair the third one.
  • I don't remember whether it was Jeffrey Cost or Jeffrey
  • Barheight.
  • That was sort of--
  • and then it was Craig Neno.
  • So that's probably the five years--
  • the first five years of HPA.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And is Craig Neno the brother of Ian--
  • DAN MEYERS: Yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --Neno?
  • OK.
  • DAN MEYERS: Right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: By the time you--
  • by the time four or five years had passed--
  • let me put this--
  • was ACT UP active at that time?
  • DAN MEYERS: There was a very small ACT UP
  • group in Rochester, very small.
  • And it was not focused on fundraising.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: No.
  • DAN MEYERS: It was focused on acting up,
  • which was exactly what they did.
  • I would say more of those folks transitioned into the AIDS
  • Action Committee, which began to do
  • some other kinds of high-profile events
  • that were not necessarily fundraisers, like Bill bringing
  • the quilt here, or the National AIDS variety show, whose name I
  • can't remember.
  • And then the two groups merged.
  • And that's at about 1989, '90, so that's about four
  • or five years into this.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And by that time, had
  • AIDS become recognized as a--
  • DAN MEYERS: Well, I'd say there was more recognition.
  • Community Health Network was getting started by 1990.
  • And so you had a separate clinic practice
  • devoted to this specialty.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: In federal money, was--
  • DAN MEYERS: And there was federal money
  • to help support that.
  • And there was, you know, insurance money.
  • And there was research money.
  • And there was stuff beginning to flow, because--
  • I mean, thank god, the medical community
  • realized that this wasn't anything more than an epidemic.
  • You know, this wasn't a moral conversation
  • about whatever you think.
  • These were sick bodies that needed to be taken care of.
  • And it was spreading like wildfire.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: When you, kind of, backed away,
  • what did you turn your attention to?
  • Were you Executive Director at Al Sigl during all of this?
  • Or were you--
  • DAN MEYERS: Well, I started--
  • I was working for the Rochester Philharmonic
  • when we started this.
  • I went to Al Sigl in 1987.
  • So, you know, I was--
  • but I've always had a pretty healthy volunteer life.
  • So I had a lot of volunteer things going on before this,
  • after this, during this.
  • And I continue to, so you know, it
  • isn't like I stopped volunteering.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: No
  • DAN MEYERS: And you know, this isn't necessarily--
  • you don't want to do event-based fundraising over and over
  • again.
  • It gets pretty stale.
  • And if HPA made a mistake, it was
  • trying to have the same party for too long.
  • I mean, nobody wants to go to the same party over and over
  • again.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • DAN MEYERS: You know, and so it would sputter.
  • And then it sort of faded.
  • And then it got revived a little bit.
  • And it would sputter, and fade, and revive.
  • I mean, it-- you know, it needs a new idea.
  • An event like this needs a new idea every so many years.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • DAN MEYERS: And it had a hard time, sort of,
  • coming up with that, and reinventing itself.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Are you originally from Rochester?
  • DAN MEYERS: Mm-hm.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Born and raised here?
  • DAN MEYERS: Born and raised, yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And where did you go to high school?
  • Or were you--
  • DAN MEYERS: I went away--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: In the--
  • DAN MEYERS: --to a Catholic boys'
  • school that was half a prep school and half
  • a minor seminary.
  • So you know, I had a great education,
  • because I was almost privately tutored by Franciscans,
  • who were terrific teachers.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And were you aware of your own sexuality
  • by high school?
  • DAN MEYERS: What does anybody know in high school?
  • You know, I mean, you got a whole bunch
  • of stuff coming at you.
  • By the time I was a freshman in college,
  • it was pretty clear to me that I was looking at the world
  • differently.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And was college here?
  • Or was college--
  • DAN MEYERS: I was in Washington.
  • I was part of the Order that I went to school
  • with at that point.
  • And it was very clear to me I didn't
  • belong there, because I needed to be out and about, as we say,
  • yeah.
  • So I left.
  • I came back.
  • I graduated from Fischer.
  • And I graduated from Fischer in 1971.
  • Apropos of the poster, that's exactly when Rochester
  • was beginning to become aware of gay and lesbian rights,
  • issues, expression.
  • And so, you know, I almost mirror that, sort of,
  • whole progression.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And--
  • DAN MEYERS: And for the first twelve or fourteen years
  • of that, there was no limit.
  • And there was no lid, because it was
  • going to go on forever, just as gloriously free
  • and with no implications at all.
  • And then the curtain was drawn.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • When you were at Fischer, and came back to Rochester,
  • how would you connect with other LGBT men and women?
  • DAN MEYERS: I didn't really connect.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were there resources available?
  • DAN MEYERS: In college there was just, sort of, an underground.
  • You know, after college, it was really the bars.
  • I mean, that's where there--
  • that's where you found social life.
  • Even after you went to a meeting at the U of R,
  • or a community meeting, everybody went to the bar,
  • because that was the clubhouse.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall who was Mayor of Rochester
  • in those early, '70 years?
  • DAN MEYERS: Well it would have been Steve May.
  • And Frank Lamb would have been, sort of, that era.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And Barry?
  • DAN MEYERS: No, Peter Barry was in the '50s, early '60s.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • Was Steve May--
  • I mean, I have heard people say that Steve--
  • but how is it known that Peter Barry was a gay mayor here
  • in Rochester?
  • DAN MEYERS: Well, first--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: There have--
  • DAN MEYERS: --of all
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --not--
  • DAN MEYERS: --he was very discreet.
  • This is a man who was very well educated, very well-bred.
  • His family was prominent.
  • His family was wealthy.
  • He had all the advantages.
  • And he knew how to be extraordinarily discreet.
  • And he was.
  • And so his public presence was impeccable.
  • And his politics were of the moment.
  • And you know, he was a good mayor.
  • And his administration was clean as a whistle, and so on.
  • And he had a place down in the Bristol Hills.
  • And the lid went off.
  • And anybody could be anybody.
  • But it was a very close circle of folks
  • who all had the same vested interest in making sure
  • that the circle stayed closed, and that this didn't get to be
  • conversation beyond the group.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do you know--
  • DAN MEYERS: But this is the '50s and '60s.
  • I mean, we're talking a very--
  • you know, I mean, we're talking McCarthy going on out there.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right
  • DAN MEYERS: I mean, this was not a good time to be a pacesetter.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And other than--
  • there probably were other prominent people
  • who were of the same mind, in terms of their public presence
  • was unimpeachable.
  • And yet their quote unquote "dual life" or "secret life"
  • was one of home parties, or individual groups--
  • DAN MEYERS: Right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --that got together.
  • DAN MEYERS: Which is the way Rochester lives today,
  • and which is the way it's always lived.
  • I mean, you know, you had a fair amount of privacy
  • in your personal life if you conducted it privately.
  • You know, would we say that's a good way to live today?
  • We'd probably say no.
  • Is it fair to put today's light on how things were?
  • Probably not.
  • You know, I mean, I think he lived
  • a productive, contributing, wholesome life
  • by the standards of his time.
  • And he was a good man.
  • I mean, he was politically involved,
  • and was a good leader, and a kind of person
  • that brought people together.
  • He was philanthropically inclined.
  • You know, I mean, this was a good man.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And in the course of that period of time,
  • how did Rochester--
  • was there talk in Rochester about gay lesbian rights
  • or issues?
  • I know sodomy laws were uppermost in many people's
  • minds in the early '70s, because that's
  • when Bob Osborn and the U of R group went to Albany
  • and testified at the hearings.
  • But other than that, were--
  • was their concern?
  • Was there a sense of harassment, a sense of not
  • being welcomed as a homosexual?
  • DAN MEYERS: I think you'd need somebody with--
  • somebody who is a little older than I to get
  • some sense of that perspective.
  • Because by the time I come along, you sort of--
  • it sort of all moved along as our awareness was coming along.
  • You know, there was a reason that there was a movement,
  • sort of, coming.
  • It just all sort of opened up.
  • And you know, certainly Stonewall starts
  • that in a very public way.
  • And it-- so you know, I heard stories about people going
  • to Martha's or Ma Martin's, and somebody watching the door
  • for the cops--
  • both the front and the back--
  • and Martha getting a phone call that the cops
  • were on their way, and everybody sort of breaking
  • ranks, and standing around, and talking about the game,
  • and all that sort of thing.
  • And, you know, I think that that was a way of life.
  • Was that the way of life by the time I start going out?
  • No, you know, it wasn't.
  • Is that to say that there weren't police lurking around?
  • Yeah, there were police lurking around.
  • But it was probably a fairer, more open environment.
  • And it became increasingly so.
  • So you know, if people chose to do things publicly in parks
  • or wherever, those continued to be situations
  • that you could certainly expect to be made accountable.
  • If you were minding your own business
  • in a gay party, in a gay bar, in a whatever,
  • you were pretty much left alone.
  • That was probably a terrific credit
  • to the city administration, to the police department,
  • and so on.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Did you ever personally experience
  • any form of harassment, whether it be from the police,
  • or from other people who were not
  • accepting of your sexuality?
  • DAN MEYERS: I don't think I experienced that blatantly.
  • I think I've probably experienced it subtly.
  • But I don't--
  • I think I was pretty lucky.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were you ever afraid, Dan, to be
  • DAN MEYERS: Well, I think you--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --who you were?
  • DAN MEYERS: --always looked over your-- yeah,
  • I think you looked over your shoulder
  • every time you went into a bar, or every time you went anywhere
  • that, you know, there was a gay gathering.
  • I think you were always very aware.
  • Now, the good news is, when you got inside,
  • or you got with folks that were friends, you were home.
  • You know, so that more than compensated
  • for whatever the tension might have
  • been as you were, sort of, thinking about should I do this
  • or not.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Did you, in your own life and experience,
  • ever want to deny who you were?
  • DAN MEYERS: Oh, I think I did that a lot.
  • You know, I think you deny yourself
  • by not proclaiming who you are.
  • So did I say I wasn't gay?
  • No.
  • But did I just remain silent?
  • Yes.
  • And you know, that's denial.
  • And you know, I think the longer you do that,
  • the longer you, sort of, put off embracing who you are,
  • and so on.
  • So I mean, I think my coming out period was probably
  • ten or twelve years.
  • And it probably should have been ten or twelve days, you know.
  • Because what was clear to me ten or twelve years later was
  • it didn't matter.
  • You know, the people who cared knew.
  • I didn't have to tell them.
  • And the people who knew either cared or didn't care.
  • And it didn't really matter, you know.
  • So you know, I think it's like a lot of things in life.
  • You spend a whole lot more time getting there than you need to.
  • But that's probably how we all, sort of, grow up and mature.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • DAN MEYERS: You know, my hope is that whatever
  • has happened over the last couple of generations
  • make it easier for young men and women today
  • to not waste those years.
  • Because to me, the youth work that the Alliance is doing is
  • to try to save those kids-- that,
  • sort of, unproductive gray area of the middle between,
  • sort of, leaving adolescence and being--
  • and figuring out who you are, and then living it right away,
  • not going through this incubation period,
  • or this period of suspension.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Talk to me a little bit
  • about the pride that you felt being a gay man who
  • was successful, a gay man who was not only accepted but is
  • today and has been well-respected,
  • well-thought-of, looked upon as a community leader
  • with a tremendous amount of experience
  • but also with a tremendous heart.
  • DAN MEYERS: Well, I'm a white man.
  • White men have a pretty easy path.
  • You know, so I'm a gay white man.
  • But white man has more power than gay in terms of, you know,
  • getting the door open, and moving along.
  • So I recognize that that's a, you know,
  • that was a terrific given to me.
  • I didn't do anything to get that.
  • It's just the way I came into this world.
  • You know, that I think we would all
  • say that the dimension that we have as gay men and women are--
  • add something to us that you know you can either use,
  • or you can use fully, or you can let it lay fallow.
  • And you know, I think in lots of ways
  • I was able to use it pretty fully,
  • because I think the connectivity and the sensitivity that we've
  • got is, sort of, innately--
  • and understanding of that even if you've
  • been given a fair amount, you haven't been given everything.
  • I mean, you know, we come from a group that
  • is marginalized, and so on.
  • So if you understand that, and you keep moving along,
  • you understand that that marginal perspective
  • is something that gives you the openness and the sensitivity
  • to a whole lot of other things besides just your own.
  • So you know, for me, this has been
  • a pretty easy, straight line.
  • For me professionally, the minute
  • that sort of happened for me, that I realized what
  • was going on, is one of our board members at Al Sigl
  • was on the board of another community organization that
  • was in the middle of a search for an Executive Director.
  • They were down to two finalists, one of whom was a gay man.
  • And this board member said, when someone said,
  • well, he must be a gay man.
  • And this board member said, well,
  • if he's half as good as Dan Meyers, we ought to hire him,
  • because we're going to be a whole lot further faster
  • than we would be with this other candidate.
  • And I thought, well, I guess we don't have to, you know,
  • worry about this much anymore, you know?
  • So that's not so much about me as it is just,
  • sort of, where this community is, and where--
  • and I'm talking twenty years ago--
  • where this community has been, and where the, sort of,
  • rank-and-file volunteer leadership of this community
  • is, which is one of those magical things
  • about this community we live in.
  • There is a huge amount of receptivity
  • to taking people at face value.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I want to go back a little bit.
  • Can you talk to me a little bit about Tony Green?
  • DAN MEYERS: What a charming, reckless, masterful, and good,
  • good man, you know?
  • I mean, he was just--
  • he would just-- this is the guy who
  • would burst through the paper ring that was on fire,
  • and everything would just start.
  • You know, that's just how he was.
  • And that was true every night at the bar.
  • And that was true any time you ran into him.
  • And it was certainly true if you ever went to his house
  • for anything.
  • And it was that way if he ever showed up at your house,
  • you know.
  • The whistles blew.
  • And things just started.
  • He was just remarkable.
  • And he was one of the people who was
  • able to catalyze, I would say, the professional part
  • of the community, with the rank-and-file working
  • part of the community, with the people that had a lot to do,
  • and with the people who had not much to do,
  • with the people who were on top of things,
  • and the people who were marginalized.
  • And that was his beauty, is he knew everybody.
  • He treated everybody the same.
  • And you know, he was so happy-go-lucky about it
  • all that you didn't, sort of, even think twice
  • about getting on the bandwagon and following along with him.
  • And then, you know, when he got sick,
  • and he became so outspoken, you know,
  • he just was shameless in sorta getting other people
  • to follow along.
  • So,you know, in lots of ways, I think he,
  • and that sort of first circle of people who were publicly living
  • with HIV and publicly talking about it and advocating,
  • really, were the conscience for the community.
  • I'd put John Washburn in that same category.
  • You know, there were three or four voices
  • who were just very, very strong and unequivocal
  • about how important we--
  • this work was, and how we had to take care of each other.
  • And and the each other kept growing as more and more people
  • were affected by HIV and AIDS.
  • So this wasn't exclusive--
  • this wasn't an exclusive gay man's club.
  • You know, it started out with gay men,
  • because it was gay men.
  • But as others started seeing this
  • as part of their life and their sector, the circle just grew.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • Over the course of the past--
  • DAN MEYERS: And we still don't have housing.
  • And Tony Green would be--
  • Tony Green would just sit right on all of us in the fact
  • that this community has not developed housing for people
  • with HIV and AIDS, because that was his dream.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • Well, it has not--
  • housing has not been there for many people in the community,
  • whether HIV positive or not.
  • DAN MEYERS: Right, but you know, other communities have models,
  • where, you know, they went right into housing pretty early.
  • And then they went into enriched housing--
  • Buffalo, for instance.
  • We lost some time trying to get all the organizations to play
  • nice together.
  • And we lost some ability to catalyze some more things,
  • you know.
  • And I think, you know, now the test
  • is going to be can the new combined organization expand
  • services at a time when nobody is expanding anything.
  • That's going to be a real big challenge.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So one of the things
  • you would identify as still--
  • work that still needs to be done?
  • DAN MEYERS: Absolutely, we're lucky to have a clinic.
  • We're lucky to have some community outreach services.
  • We're lucky to have what we have, but it's not enough.
  • And you know, the day program is a nice start.
  • We need to have more.
  • And we need to have more.
  • And we need to have more.
  • And we need to have more, and more
  • that's specific for people with HIV and AIDS
  • until such time is there are those opportunities
  • for everybody that people with HIV can just, sort of,
  • meld into.
  • The fact of the matter is we don't
  • have enough continuum of care health services
  • and health-related services in this community.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Let me move to not so much health,
  • but public policy, and political successes.
  • Over the course of the past forty years,
  • much has changed in Rochester in terms of domestic partnership.
  • And now, of course, New York has--
  • DAN MEYERS: Marriage.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --marriage equality.
  • What did you feel most proud of in the past forty years,
  • being a gay man, being a member of the Rochester community,
  • being a member of the gay community?
  • Or was there anything?
  • DAN MEYERS: (pause) I have a little different take
  • on marriage, because by the time it happened,
  • I thought it was sort of an interesting postscript.
  • Not that it wasn't a huge victory-- it was huge.
  • It was life-changing.
  • And I was delighted, because one of the things my partner
  • and I wanted to do was get married at home,
  • not go travel around, and then try to figure out
  • whether that marriage was going to be recognized or not.
  • So it was sort of huge in that way.
  • But I have to say, I didn't really
  • need the state to tell me that my relationship was
  • sacred or sanctioned.
  • I really believe that our relationship did that
  • by itself, and that it didn't need that validation.
  • Now I have a different perspective than others, who--
  • I understand that.
  • But it worked for me.
  • And so the legal piece, and the rights piece I understand
  • is hugely significant.
  • But that, to me, wasn't important as my own validation
  • of what the value of my relationship was and is.
  • So it's a little different perspective.
  • I remember arguing with some of the Empire State Pride agenda
  • folks, that we didn't need marriage right now, that we had
  • more urgent needs in terms of the life and death situations
  • that many gay men and women were facing,
  • and that we needed to worry about education and health
  • care, and that the rest would, sort of--
  • I don't think that was probably--
  • I probably wasn't thinking as clearly
  • as the folks who were more forward-looking in terms
  • of where the movement for equality went.
  • But I also wasn't in a situation where my partner and I could
  • go anywhere and do anything.
  • So I didn't feel the same as people who couldn't and didn't.
  • And you know, that's just one of those advantages
  • that, if you're lucky enough to have it,
  • it sort of clouds your mind a little bit that way.
  • So I don't in any way discount how important it is.
  • And I celebrate the wonderful victory it is.
  • I understand how shaky it is.
  • All we have to do is look at California
  • to know that it comes and goes, and so on.
  • But all we have to do is count on the President's children,
  • and the children all across America, who are already there.
  • And if we go back and forth, and we hiccup a little,
  • it's not permanent-- it's just going
  • to need a little more time.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: In this journey toward equality, what would you
  • identify perhaps as the most--
  • as some of the most significant steps along the way?
  • You have always been aligned with the fringe.
  • The work you do it Al Sigl--
  • not that it diminishes the stature
  • or the importance of any of the people you serve--
  • but they are not--
  • they are in need.
  • They are--
  • DAN MEYERS: Well, people with disabilities
  • are not included in all of community life.
  • And you know, everybody should be included in community life,
  • because in order to form the kind of community that's
  • going to be successful, we need everybody.
  • And we need everybody's ability.
  • And unfortunately, the people that our agencies
  • serve at Al Sigl come labeled with a disability.
  • And so you don't even get to the ability piece
  • if you don't probe more than the top line.
  • So you know, I understand that in some ways.
  • I don't live with a disability.
  • But I understand what not being included
  • is, because there are parts of my life
  • that are not fully included in the community life.
  • And there certainly were times thirty and forty years ago
  • when I wasn't welcomed or included.
  • So you know, you sort of make do, and accommodate,
  • and you move along.
  • So the good news is, today, I don't
  • think there are too many places where gay men and women can't
  • be.
  • And the LGBT work that is going on
  • has got folks really pretty much at the main roads of community
  • life.
  • So does that work for everybody?
  • Probably not.
  • But is it work and for the majority?
  • Yeah, I think it is.
  • And should we be damn proud of that?
  • You bet your life we should be damn proud of that,
  • because that's a whole lot of little steps, one at a time,
  • and a occasional big march.
  • But it's mostly more little steps one at a time.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do you--
  • or can you-- the history of Rochester
  • itself is one of innovation, creativity,
  • philanthropy from way back when.
  • What impact do you--
  • or do you think there has been an impact
  • in our current support, freedom, openness because of that?
  • DAN MEYERS: I think those qualities
  • that you mentioned are what make us socially conscious
  • and socially progressive as--
  • if you sort of looked at what's our hallmark,
  • or what would you say our culture,
  • our personality is as a community.
  • Well, we're quietly socially progressive.
  • We are more than averagely attuned to the consciousness
  • of humanity and where we should be.
  • And there is a certain shared understanding and commitment
  • to that in this community.
  • It's sort of our fiber.
  • It's the fabric.
  • So does that create a really good support
  • for the rights and inclusion of men and women
  • who live differently?
  • Yeah, it does.
  • And would you expect that this community
  • would be more open and more receptive to change, probably
  • ahead of the social curve?
  • Yeah, you would.
  • And in fact, it bears out.
  • You know, and I would say the success of the Gay Alliance
  • and all of the related organizational pieces of that,
  • and you know, the fact that there's
  • a communication mechanism that winds up being
  • the oldest in the country--
  • so were we first?
  • Not always.
  • But were we first more often than many other communities
  • our size?
  • Yeah, we were.
  • And we were first in a way that didn't necessarily
  • grab the headlines.
  • It just quietly did the job.
  • And so you don't even know you're first
  • until somebody looks back and says,
  • do you know that this happened here?
  • And this happened first?
  • And you know, this project is really, sort of,
  • making us more aware of all those places
  • where we were either first, or we were right in line
  • with the first wave of the movement,
  • or when we caught the second wave.
  • We made it bigger and better than had--
  • what had gone on before.
  • That's sort of Rochester's quiet way of doing things.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So looking at the next ten years, twenty years,
  • what's the next frontier?
  • DAN MEYERS: It would be wonderful
  • if all this would just go away, wouldn't it?
  • Because it's not needed.
  • You know, that other than perhaps a little bit
  • of transition coaching for people whenever it is they
  • find themselves in this, that the rest of it
  • is all just a pretty straight path.
  • Now, I think that's optimistic.
  • But I think it's not optimistic in thirty or forty years,
  • because I think the movement--
  • I mean, if you just look at what's
  • happened in the last decade, and where
  • people's understanding is, and where the majority
  • of public opinion lays now.
  • You know, this-- anybody who is waiting for the restoration
  • of the old world, and the, you know,
  • burning of us at the stake--
  • they're on the wrong page.
  • You know, because this train is moving.
  • And it's moving fast.
  • And we're never going to go back.
  • And so, you know, for the young boy or the young girl who is
  • born today that is looking at the world different,
  • and feeling a little different about themselves--
  • and I understand that they're probably going to be aware
  • of that much earlier than you and I were--
  • hopefully they'll never have to put any part of that aside.
  • That it will just be a straight path for them.
  • And it will be who they are.
  • And that they're-- who they are will be all of their gifts,
  • not just part of their gifts.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I-- going to turn this.
  • What would you say to a 9th, 10th, 11th grader, who
  • is in high school, who is doing the Facebook,
  • doing the Twitter, doing the texting?
  • DAN MEYERS: What was the national awareness
  • campaign that came out after the gay murder talking
  • about positive--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Anti-bullying?
  • DAN MEYERS: Well, yeah, anti-bullying-- but it went--
  • but there were some, just remarkably smart gay media
  • leaders who took the-- took command of the message,
  • and talked about a full gay life, and what's possible.
  • To me, any time anybody at that age
  • hears about somebody else living successfully,
  • whether it was fifty years ago, or forty years ago,
  • or thirty, or twenty, or ten, or five minutes ago, they
  • aught to take heart from that.
  • You know, I've been a gay man for--
  • I've been a known--
  • a knowingly gay man probably since I was out of high school.
  • And am I proud of my life?
  • Yeah.
  • Did I make some mistakes?
  • Absolutely, I made some mistakes.
  • But you know, they were my mistakes.
  • And I took care of them.
  • And I moved on.
  • And I learned from them.
  • And you know, at sixty-three, I'm very, very proud
  • of the life I'm living, and the friends that I have,
  • and the work that I do, and the community that I live in,
  • and that the community that I'm a part of and contribute to.
  • And my gayness isn't the only part of me,
  • you know, in all of that.
  • But it's an undeniable, important part of me.
  • And so, you know, I would hope that any young person that
  • is sort of wondering about this can wonder about it
  • with the sense of excitement and wonder,
  • not with the sense of guilt and a defeat.
  • Because they're sitting at the sort of beginning
  • of self-awareness.
  • And all of this can open up for them in one piece
  • as opposed to one little compartment over here.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, thank you.
  • DAN MEYERS: You're very welcome.
  • And you know what?
  • I'm honored to be thinking about this,
  • because as you go through every day's journey,
  • you don't always take time to sort of think about this.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: No, I think for us who are older, and have
  • really thought and struggled with our own journeys,
  • it's so much integrated into who we are
  • and we take it for granted.
  • We don't look necessarily at how we got to where we got to.
  • DAN MEYERS: And you know, we could have been derailed.
  • We had lots of friends that were derailed.
  • And we had lots of friends who didn't end up in good places.
  • And you know, there was way too much
  • drug and alcohol, and unproductive sex,
  • and all sorts of things.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes, I think the AIDS epidemic, when
  • you begin to look at the Needle Exchange Program and things
  • of that sort, you begin to realize
  • that this disease is not just because people love each other.
  • It's because people are so needy of whatever that fix can
  • give them, that they forget.
  • They don't think about the consequences.
  • DAN MEYERS: Right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But thank you.
  • Thank you for your words.
  • And thank you for being Dan.
  • DAN MEYERS: Well, aren't you nice.
  • Thank you.
  • I'll try to find more of the history.