Audio Interview, Dan Meyers, May 21, 2012

(side conversation)

EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I've been wanting to do this for years.

And now that we have the records,

and the documents, and the, kind of, organized.

And we know EEC is online.

And I can more easily do the research,

but I want to go back to pre-1960.

One of the things, Dan, is that your involvement very early on,

I want remembered.

And I want Jerry Algozer's involvement remembered--

and the people who got together to bring it about.

And it's important to have your own words, your own reflections

on that, versus what I might say,

or what the empty closet might say, or anyone else.

So at that first event, which was at Village Gate,

you did not expect the crowd that you got.

DAN MEYERS: No, we certainly didn't.

We selected hosts by--

we invited people to be hosts.

And then we let an open invitation for people

to volunteer to be hosts.

And you know, you send out these packages.

And you have no idea whether folks are going

to really use them or not.

And you also, you know--

we send them as many as they said they needed.

But you had no idea whether they were

going to use them all or not.

And so our hope was that we'd have 100 or 150 people.

That's what we were hoping.

And we had arranged for desserts.

We had fabulous desserts that were all donated.

We had arranged for terrific entertainment.

Jerry took care of all the entertainment.

And we thought people would be coming

for after dinner drinks, since they'd all had a nice dinner

at somebody's home before.

And that they'd be, sort of, coasting into the evening.

People arrived a little later than we

expected, because everybody was having a good time at dinner.

People were, sort of, surprised to find other people at Village

Gate, which was still--

you know, it hadn't really transformed yet.

And it wasn't really established.

So it was the perfect kind of place for an offbeat party.

Neil Parisella turned the barest bones room

into this very interesting space by using every garbage

bag available in Monroe County.

We lined the walls in this industrial space

with black garbage bags, and then uplit it from the floor.

So I mean, you didn't know whether you were looking

at satin, or the most bizarre wall covering you'd ever seen,

or whatever.

And there was a black and white floor in the middle

that we painted.

And we had the baby grand piano from the RPO

sitting in the middle of the floor for entertainment.

And people started drinking.

And people started dancing.

And people started having a really good time.

And it was a flat-out, rip-roaring, great time.

And everybody was so pleased to be there.

And was so pleased to see more people, and to see people

they hadn't seen, and to see people that they knew.

And I think people were very empowered

that they were able to come and do something about AIDS

rather than hiding and burying their head,

because it wasn't said out loud much.

And it was scary.

And this took the scare, and created some kind of power

that meant we could do something about it.

And then, you know, I don't remember how much we raised.

But I know we had hoped to raise $10,000.

And I think before we were done, it was somewhere-- thirty,

forty-- even more than that by the time we were all done.

People were enormously generous.

I mean, this wasn't where people were, sort of, putting $10

or $20 in the pot.

I mean, there were many gifts of that size,

but there were lots more of much bigger size,

because people really wanted to do something.

Everything was donated.

We didn't pay for the paper for the invitations.

We didn't pay any of the hosts for anything they did.

We didn't pay for any of the entertainment.

All the desserts were donated.

So everything was-- and that was one of our guiding principles,

is we weren't going to spend any money to raise the money.

Gary Sweet and his team took care of the bar.

They were terrific.

But, you know, about an hour into it,

they had to go back to the their bar and get more booze,

because they were just absolutely hammered.

EVELYN BAILEY: And was it just you and Jerry Algozer?

DAN MEYERS: Well, we were the co-Chairs.

But there was a committee of--

I don't know-- ten to fourteen people.

I probably have the lists of names.

Everybody had a part of it that they did.

We all started working Friday night

to turn this big industrial room into something

that looked like something.

We were all, sort of, giddy-high,

because, you know how you work really hard to get something

done by a deadline.

And you're not sure.

And then it starts taking shape.

And then it gets really interesting.

And I remember my boyfriend at the time

had to learn how to make box pleats

to use this black plastic stuff to make

box pleats on all the tables.

I think he could still make box pleats in his sleep.

Phyllis Contestable did one of the big song and dance numbers

from Nunsense.

Nunsense was just opening, so this was brand new.

And of course, Jerry was the Director of that.

So you know, and she absolutely stole the show.

And you know, it was fabulous.

It was like a night on Broadway.

It was really terrific.

There was more entertainment.

There were the drag queens.

There were some musical, and then there

was just pounding dance music, which was just great.

EVELYN BAILEY: How did you think about the idea?

Who originated the, kind of, thought that this is something

that you needed to do?

DAN MEYERS: We gathered a group of friends.

And some of the friends brought friends.

And we sat around a table in my office

for three or four nights, probably a few weeks apart.

And we just brainstormed all sorts of things

that we could do.

And then I charged the group to, sort of,

figure out which one of these ideas

could take as many parts of it as possible,

so that we could have one big event rather than 800

little ones.

So some of the things fell off, like, you know,

some kind of a bowl-athon, or something,

because that just didn't work.

So we added as many things into this event as we could have,

like the entertainment, and so on.

And then we came up with the idea.

The Community Foundation had just

started doing Evening Out At Home,

where people were invited to people's homes.

We didn't feel we needed to be quite that

elegant or exclusive.

But the same idea-- if we got people started at homes,

they would probably come in groups as opposed

to trying to recruit them one on one.

And we'd also save the cost of providing a dinner.

So it was as much about economy as it was, sort of,

a built-in audience.

And then the rest of it just, sort of, followed.

What do you do?

Well, you have dessert.

You have entertainment.

You have some drinks.

You dance, you-- you know, whatever.

And so, you know, we figured that this was the most

cost-effective way to do it.

As I said before, we were determined

not to spend any money to raise the money.

EVELYN BAILEY: Why did you do it?

What prompted you?

Or what was the catalyst that, in your minds,

said we needed to raise money?

And it was for victims of HIV.

It was for, primarily, at that time, men, who--

DAN MEYERS: Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: --who had--

DAN MEYERS: They were my friends.

Bill Valenti asked Jerry and I if we would do something

to help the clinic.

And it was that simple.

And we said, yes.

And we wanted to make sure that anybody had access

to good health care, because health care was so important.

At that point, AIDS Rochester and the clinic

were not aligned.

They weren't enemies by any way, but there

wasn't alignment there.

And there had been a million small fundraisers

for AIDS Rochester.

There had been nothing for the clinic.

And the clinic was still at Strong.

It was part of the Infectious Disease Center.

And Bill was worried that, you know,

that there wouldn't be enough money for him to see patients

if they didn't come with their own insurance

or their own ability to pay.

EVELYN BAILEY: Can you talk a little bit

about the funding that wasn't there that--

DAN MEYERS: There wasn't any.

EVELYN BAILEY: --was there later?

DAN MEYERS: Well, there wasn't any funding.

I mean, you know, this was not talked about.

So if it's invisible, it's really hard to attract funding.

So were there little, tiny pockets of money

that were available?

Yeah, there were little tiny pockets of money.

But this was not the kind of public--

I mean, we'd had a President at that time

that didn't say AIDS out loud.

I mean, it-- if you don't say it, it doesn't exist.

So I mean, what are we?

Three or four years into the epidemic, probably two or three

years into it in terms of Rochester's

understanding that this was something more than one-off.

Because in the beginning, as people got sick, it was,

well there was something-- you know,

they had something different, or whatever.

It was getting to be really clear

that people got really sick.

And in the absence of having good health care, they died.

And you know, we had all been to far too many funerals

of far too many young men.

And they were just like us, so this

was as personal as it gets.

You know, and I'd have to say, sitting around that table,

I think all of us were wondering whether we were next.

So this a very individual, personal response

on everybody's part.

People were doing this out of love,

and I'd say out of fear, and out of some sense

that somebody had to do something

about this, because this had to be addressed.

EVELYN BAILEY: And how long did you stay involved

with HPA in a leadership role?

Or in a--

DAN MEYERS: Jerry and I chaired the first one.

I chaired the second one.

We asked one of the Jeffreys to chair the third one.

I don't remember whether it was Jeffrey Cost or Jeffrey

Barheight.

That was sort of--

and then it was Craig Neno.

So that's probably the five years--

the first five years of HPA.

EVELYN BAILEY: And is Craig Neno the brother of Ian--

DAN MEYERS: Yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: --Neno?

OK.

DAN MEYERS: Right.

EVELYN BAILEY: By the time you--

by the time four or five years had passed--

let me put this--

was ACT UP active at that time?

DAN MEYERS: There was a very small ACT UP

group in Rochester, very small.

And it was not focused on fundraising.

EVELYN BAILEY: No.

DAN MEYERS: It was focused on acting up,

which was exactly what they did.

I would say more of those folks transitioned into the AIDS

Action Committee, which began to do

some other kinds of high-profile events

that were not necessarily fundraisers, like Bill bringing

the quilt here, or the National AIDS variety show, whose name I

can't remember.

And then the two groups merged.

And that's at about 1989, '90, so that's about four

or five years into this.

EVELYN BAILEY: And by that time, had

AIDS become recognized as a--

DAN MEYERS: Well, I'd say there was more recognition.

Community Health Network was getting started by 1990.

And so you had a separate clinic practice

devoted to this specialty.

EVELYN BAILEY: In federal money, was--

DAN MEYERS: And there was federal money

to help support that.

And there was, you know, insurance money.

And there was research money.

And there was stuff beginning to flow, because--

I mean, thank god, the medical community

realized that this wasn't anything more than an epidemic.

You know, this wasn't a moral conversation

about whatever you think.

These were sick bodies that needed to be taken care of.

And it was spreading like wildfire.

EVELYN BAILEY: When you, kind of, backed away,

what did you turn your attention to?

Were you Executive Director at Al Sigl during all of this?

Or were you--

DAN MEYERS: Well, I started--

I was working for the Rochester Philharmonic

when we started this.

I went to Al Sigl in 1987.

So, you know, I was--

but I've always had a pretty healthy volunteer life.

So I had a lot of volunteer things going on before this,

after this, during this.

And I continue to, so you know, it

isn't like I stopped volunteering.

EVELYN BAILEY: No

DAN MEYERS: And you know, this isn't necessarily--

you don't want to do event-based fundraising over and over

again.

It gets pretty stale.

And if HPA made a mistake, it was

trying to have the same party for too long.

I mean, nobody wants to go to the same party over and over

again.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

DAN MEYERS: You know, and so it would sputter.

And then it sort of faded.

And then it got revived a little bit.

And it would sputter, and fade, and revive.

I mean, it-- you know, it needs a new idea.

An event like this needs a new idea every so many years.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

DAN MEYERS: And it had a hard time, sort of,

coming up with that, and reinventing itself.

EVELYN BAILEY: Are you originally from Rochester?

DAN MEYERS: Mm-hm.

EVELYN BAILEY: Born and raised here?

DAN MEYERS: Born and raised, yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: And where did you go to high school?

Or were you--

DAN MEYERS: I went away--

EVELYN BAILEY: In the--

DAN MEYERS: --to a Catholic boys'

school that was half a prep school and half

a minor seminary.

So you know, I had a great education,

because I was almost privately tutored by Franciscans,

who were terrific teachers.

EVELYN BAILEY: And were you aware of your own sexuality

by high school?

DAN MEYERS: What does anybody know in high school?

You know, I mean, you got a whole bunch

of stuff coming at you.

By the time I was a freshman in college,

it was pretty clear to me that I was looking at the world

differently.

EVELYN BAILEY: And was college here?

Or was college--

DAN MEYERS: I was in Washington.

I was part of the Order that I went to school

with at that point.

And it was very clear to me I didn't

belong there, because I needed to be out and about, as we say,

yeah.

So I left.

I came back.

I graduated from Fischer.

And I graduated from Fischer in 1971.

Apropos of the poster, that's exactly when Rochester

was beginning to become aware of gay and lesbian rights,

issues, expression.

And so, you know, I almost mirror that, sort of,

whole progression.

EVELYN BAILEY: And--

DAN MEYERS: And for the first twelve or fourteen years

of that, there was no limit.

And there was no lid, because it was

going to go on forever, just as gloriously free

and with no implications at all.

And then the curtain was drawn.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

When you were at Fischer, and came back to Rochester,

how would you connect with other LGBT men and women?

DAN MEYERS: I didn't really connect.

EVELYN BAILEY: Were there resources available?

DAN MEYERS: In college there was just, sort of, an underground.

You know, after college, it was really the bars.

I mean, that's where there--

that's where you found social life.

Even after you went to a meeting at the U of R,

or a community meeting, everybody went to the bar,

because that was the clubhouse.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall who was Mayor of Rochester

in those early, '70 years?

DAN MEYERS: Well it would have been Steve May.

And Frank Lamb would have been, sort of, that era.

EVELYN BAILEY: And Barry?

DAN MEYERS: No, Peter Barry was in the '50s, early '60s.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

Was Steve May--

I mean, I have heard people say that Steve--

but how is it known that Peter Barry was a gay mayor here

in Rochester?

DAN MEYERS: Well, first--

EVELYN BAILEY: There have--

DAN MEYERS: --of all

EVELYN BAILEY: --not--

DAN MEYERS: --he was very discreet.

This is a man who was very well educated, very well-bred.

His family was prominent.

His family was wealthy.

He had all the advantages.

And he knew how to be extraordinarily discreet.

And he was.

And so his public presence was impeccable.

And his politics were of the moment.

And you know, he was a good mayor.

And his administration was clean as a whistle, and so on.

And he had a place down in the Bristol Hills.

And the lid went off.

And anybody could be anybody.

But it was a very close circle of folks

who all had the same vested interest in making sure

that the circle stayed closed, and that this didn't get to be

conversation beyond the group.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you know--

DAN MEYERS: But this is the '50s and '60s.

I mean, we're talking a very--

you know, I mean, we're talking McCarthy going on out there.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right

DAN MEYERS: I mean, this was not a good time to be a pacesetter.

EVELYN BAILEY: And other than--

there probably were other prominent people

who were of the same mind, in terms of their public presence

was unimpeachable.

And yet their quote unquote "dual life" or "secret life"

was one of home parties, or individual groups--

DAN MEYERS: Right.

EVELYN BAILEY: --that got together.

DAN MEYERS: Which is the way Rochester lives today,

and which is the way it's always lived.

I mean, you know, you had a fair amount of privacy

in your personal life if you conducted it privately.

You know, would we say that's a good way to live today?

We'd probably say no.

Is it fair to put today's light on how things were?

Probably not.

You know, I mean, I think he lived

a productive, contributing, wholesome life

by the standards of his time.

And he was a good man.

I mean, he was politically involved,

and was a good leader, and a kind of person

that brought people together.

He was philanthropically inclined.

You know, I mean, this was a good man.

EVELYN BAILEY: And in the course of that period of time,

how did Rochester--

was there talk in Rochester about gay lesbian rights

or issues?

I know sodomy laws were uppermost in many people's

minds in the early '70s, because that's

when Bob Osborn and the U of R group went to Albany

and testified at the hearings.

But other than that, were--

was their concern?

Was there a sense of harassment, a sense of not

being welcomed as a homosexual?

DAN MEYERS: I think you'd need somebody with--

somebody who is a little older than I to get

some sense of that perspective.

Because by the time I come along, you sort of--

it sort of all moved along as our awareness was coming along.

You know, there was a reason that there was a movement,

sort of, coming.

It just all sort of opened up.

And you know, certainly Stonewall starts

that in a very public way.

And it-- so you know, I heard stories about people going

to Martha's or Ma Martin's, and somebody watching the door

for the cops--

both the front and the back--

and Martha getting a phone call that the cops

were on their way, and everybody sort of breaking

ranks, and standing around, and talking about the game,

and all that sort of thing.

And, you know, I think that that was a way of life.

Was that the way of life by the time I start going out?

No, you know, it wasn't.

Is that to say that there weren't police lurking around?

Yeah, there were police lurking around.

But it was probably a fairer, more open environment.

And it became increasingly so.

So you know, if people chose to do things publicly in parks

or wherever, those continued to be situations

that you could certainly expect to be made accountable.

If you were minding your own business

in a gay party, in a gay bar, in a whatever,

you were pretty much left alone.

That was probably a terrific credit

to the city administration, to the police department,

and so on.

EVELYN BAILEY: Did you ever personally experience

any form of harassment, whether it be from the police,

or from other people who were not

accepting of your sexuality?

DAN MEYERS: I don't think I experienced that blatantly.

I think I've probably experienced it subtly.

But I don't--

I think I was pretty lucky.

EVELYN BAILEY: Were you ever afraid, Dan, to be

DAN MEYERS: Well, I think you--

EVELYN BAILEY: --who you were?

DAN MEYERS: --always looked over your-- yeah,

I think you looked over your shoulder

every time you went into a bar, or every time you went anywhere

that, you know, there was a gay gathering.

I think you were always very aware.

Now, the good news is, when you got inside,

or you got with folks that were friends, you were home.

You know, so that more than compensated

for whatever the tension might have

been as you were, sort of, thinking about should I do this

or not.

EVELYN BAILEY: Did you, in your own life and experience,

ever want to deny who you were?

DAN MEYERS: Oh, I think I did that a lot.

You know, I think you deny yourself

by not proclaiming who you are.

So did I say I wasn't gay?

No.

But did I just remain silent?

Yes.

And you know, that's denial.

And you know, I think the longer you do that,

the longer you, sort of, put off embracing who you are,

and so on.

So I mean, I think my coming out period was probably

ten or twelve years.

And it probably should have been ten or twelve days, you know.

Because what was clear to me ten or twelve years later was

it didn't matter.

You know, the people who cared knew.

I didn't have to tell them.

And the people who knew either cared or didn't care.

And it didn't really matter, you know.

So you know, I think it's like a lot of things in life.

You spend a whole lot more time getting there than you need to.

But that's probably how we all, sort of, grow up and mature.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

DAN MEYERS: You know, my hope is that whatever

has happened over the last couple of generations

make it easier for young men and women today

to not waste those years.

Because to me, the youth work that the Alliance is doing is

to try to save those kids-- that,

sort of, unproductive gray area of the middle between,

sort of, leaving adolescence and being--

and figuring out who you are, and then living it right away,

not going through this incubation period,

or this period of suspension.

EVELYN BAILEY: Talk to me a little bit

about the pride that you felt being a gay man who

was successful, a gay man who was not only accepted but is

today and has been well-respected,

well-thought-of, looked upon as a community leader

with a tremendous amount of experience

but also with a tremendous heart.

DAN MEYERS: Well, I'm a white man.

White men have a pretty easy path.

You know, so I'm a gay white man.

But white man has more power than gay in terms of, you know,

getting the door open, and moving along.

So I recognize that that's a, you know,

that was a terrific given to me.

I didn't do anything to get that.

It's just the way I came into this world.

You know, that I think we would all

say that the dimension that we have as gay men and women are--

add something to us that you know you can either use,

or you can use fully, or you can let it lay fallow.

And you know, I think in lots of ways

I was able to use it pretty fully,

because I think the connectivity and the sensitivity that we've

got is, sort of, innately--

and understanding of that even if you've

been given a fair amount, you haven't been given everything.

I mean, you know, we come from a group that

is marginalized, and so on.

So if you understand that, and you keep moving along,

you understand that that marginal perspective

is something that gives you the openness and the sensitivity

to a whole lot of other things besides just your own.

So you know, for me, this has been

a pretty easy, straight line.

For me professionally, the minute

that sort of happened for me, that I realized what

was going on, is one of our board members at Al Sigl

was on the board of another community organization that

was in the middle of a search for an Executive Director.

They were down to two finalists, one of whom was a gay man.

And this board member said, when someone said,

well, he must be a gay man.

And this board member said, well,

if he's half as good as Dan Meyers, we ought to hire him,

because we're going to be a whole lot further faster

than we would be with this other candidate.

And I thought, well, I guess we don't have to, you know,

worry about this much anymore, you know?

So that's not so much about me as it is just,

sort of, where this community is, and where--

and I'm talking twenty years ago--

where this community has been, and where the, sort of,

rank-and-file volunteer leadership of this community

is, which is one of those magical things

about this community we live in.

There is a huge amount of receptivity

to taking people at face value.

EVELYN BAILEY: I want to go back a little bit.

Can you talk to me a little bit about Tony Green?

DAN MEYERS: What a charming, reckless, masterful, and good,

good man, you know?

I mean, he was just--

he would just-- this is the guy who

would burst through the paper ring that was on fire,

and everything would just start.

You know, that's just how he was.

And that was true every night at the bar.

And that was true any time you ran into him.

And it was certainly true if you ever went to his house

for anything.

And it was that way if he ever showed up at your house,

you know.

The whistles blew.

And things just started.

He was just remarkable.

And he was one of the people who was

able to catalyze, I would say, the professional part

of the community, with the rank-and-file working

part of the community, with the people that had a lot to do,

and with the people who had not much to do,

with the people who were on top of things,

and the people who were marginalized.

And that was his beauty, is he knew everybody.

He treated everybody the same.

And you know, he was so happy-go-lucky about it

all that you didn't, sort of, even think twice

about getting on the bandwagon and following along with him.

And then, you know, when he got sick,

and he became so outspoken, you know,

he just was shameless in sorta getting other people

to follow along.

So,you know, in lots of ways, I think he,

and that sort of first circle of people who were publicly living

with HIV and publicly talking about it and advocating,

really, were the conscience for the community.

I'd put John Washburn in that same category.

You know, there were three or four voices

who were just very, very strong and unequivocal

about how important we--

this work was, and how we had to take care of each other.

And and the each other kept growing as more and more people

were affected by HIV and AIDS.

So this wasn't exclusive--

this wasn't an exclusive gay man's club.

You know, it started out with gay men,

because it was gay men.

But as others started seeing this

as part of their life and their sector, the circle just grew.

EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.

Over the course of the past--

DAN MEYERS: And we still don't have housing.

And Tony Green would be--

Tony Green would just sit right on all of us in the fact

that this community has not developed housing for people

with HIV and AIDS, because that was his dream.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

Well, it has not--

housing has not been there for many people in the community,

whether HIV positive or not.

DAN MEYERS: Right, but you know, other communities have models,

where, you know, they went right into housing pretty early.

And then they went into enriched housing--

Buffalo, for instance.

We lost some time trying to get all the organizations to play

nice together.

And we lost some ability to catalyze some more things,

you know.

And I think, you know, now the test

is going to be can the new combined organization expand

services at a time when nobody is expanding anything.

That's going to be a real big challenge.

EVELYN BAILEY: So one of the things

you would identify as still--

work that still needs to be done?

DAN MEYERS: Absolutely, we're lucky to have a clinic.

We're lucky to have some community outreach services.

We're lucky to have what we have, but it's not enough.

And you know, the day program is a nice start.

We need to have more.

And we need to have more.

And we need to have more.

And we need to have more, and more

that's specific for people with HIV and AIDS

until such time is there are those opportunities

for everybody that people with HIV can just, sort of,

meld into.

The fact of the matter is we don't

have enough continuum of care health services

and health-related services in this community.

EVELYN BAILEY: Let me move to not so much health,

but public policy, and political successes.

Over the course of the past forty years,

much has changed in Rochester in terms of domestic partnership.

And now, of course, New York has--

DAN MEYERS: Marriage.

EVELYN BAILEY: --marriage equality.

What did you feel most proud of in the past forty years,

being a gay man, being a member of the Rochester community,

being a member of the gay community?

Or was there anything?

DAN MEYERS: (pause) I have a little different take

on marriage, because by the time it happened,

I thought it was sort of an interesting postscript.

Not that it wasn't a huge victory-- it was huge.

It was life-changing.

And I was delighted, because one of the things my partner

and I wanted to do was get married at home,

not go travel around, and then try to figure out

whether that marriage was going to be recognized or not.

So it was sort of huge in that way.

But I have to say, I didn't really

need the state to tell me that my relationship was

sacred or sanctioned.

I really believe that our relationship did that

by itself, and that it didn't need that validation.

Now I have a different perspective than others, who--

I understand that.

But it worked for me.

And so the legal piece, and the rights piece I understand

is hugely significant.

But that, to me, wasn't important as my own validation

of what the value of my relationship was and is.

So it's a little different perspective.

I remember arguing with some of the Empire State Pride agenda

folks, that we didn't need marriage right now, that we had

more urgent needs in terms of the life and death situations

that many gay men and women were facing,

and that we needed to worry about education and health

care, and that the rest would, sort of--

I don't think that was probably--

I probably wasn't thinking as clearly

as the folks who were more forward-looking in terms

of where the movement for equality went.

But I also wasn't in a situation where my partner and I could

go anywhere and do anything.

So I didn't feel the same as people who couldn't and didn't.

And you know, that's just one of those advantages

that, if you're lucky enough to have it,

it sort of clouds your mind a little bit that way.

So I don't in any way discount how important it is.

And I celebrate the wonderful victory it is.

I understand how shaky it is.

All we have to do is look at California

to know that it comes and goes, and so on.

But all we have to do is count on the President's children,

and the children all across America, who are already there.

And if we go back and forth, and we hiccup a little,

it's not permanent-- it's just going

to need a little more time.

EVELYN BAILEY: In this journey toward equality, what would you

identify perhaps as the most--

as some of the most significant steps along the way?

You have always been aligned with the fringe.

The work you do it Al Sigl--

not that it diminishes the stature

or the importance of any of the people you serve--

but they are not--

they are in need.

They are--

DAN MEYERS: Well, people with disabilities

are not included in all of community life.

And you know, everybody should be included in community life,

because in order to form the kind of community that's

going to be successful, we need everybody.

And we need everybody's ability.

And unfortunately, the people that our agencies

serve at Al Sigl come labeled with a disability.

And so you don't even get to the ability piece

if you don't probe more than the top line.

So you know, I understand that in some ways.

I don't live with a disability.

But I understand what not being included

is, because there are parts of my life

that are not fully included in the community life.

And there certainly were times thirty and forty years ago

when I wasn't welcomed or included.

So you know, you sort of make do, and accommodate,

and you move along.

So the good news is, today, I don't

think there are too many places where gay men and women can't

be.

And the LGBT work that is going on

has got folks really pretty much at the main roads of community

life.

So does that work for everybody?

Probably not.

But is it work and for the majority?

Yeah, I think it is.

And should we be damn proud of that?

You bet your life we should be damn proud of that,

because that's a whole lot of little steps, one at a time,

and a occasional big march.

But it's mostly more little steps one at a time.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you--

or can you-- the history of Rochester

itself is one of innovation, creativity,

philanthropy from way back when.

What impact do you--

or do you think there has been an impact

in our current support, freedom, openness because of that?

DAN MEYERS: I think those qualities

that you mentioned are what make us socially conscious

and socially progressive as--

if you sort of looked at what's our hallmark,

or what would you say our culture,

our personality is as a community.

Well, we're quietly socially progressive.

We are more than averagely attuned to the consciousness

of humanity and where we should be.

And there is a certain shared understanding and commitment

to that in this community.

It's sort of our fiber.

It's the fabric.

So does that create a really good support

for the rights and inclusion of men and women

who live differently?

Yeah, it does.

And would you expect that this community

would be more open and more receptive to change, probably

ahead of the social curve?

Yeah, you would.

And in fact, it bears out.

You know, and I would say the success of the Gay Alliance

and all of the related organizational pieces of that,

and you know, the fact that there's

a communication mechanism that winds up being

the oldest in the country--

so were we first?

Not always.

But were we first more often than many other communities

our size?

Yeah, we were.

And we were first in a way that didn't necessarily

grab the headlines.

It just quietly did the job.

And so you don't even know you're first

until somebody looks back and says,

do you know that this happened here?

And this happened first?

And you know, this project is really, sort of,

making us more aware of all those places

where we were either first, or we were right in line

with the first wave of the movement,

or when we caught the second wave.

We made it bigger and better than had--

what had gone on before.

That's sort of Rochester's quiet way of doing things.

EVELYN BAILEY: So looking at the next ten years, twenty years,

what's the next frontier?

DAN MEYERS: It would be wonderful

if all this would just go away, wouldn't it?

Because it's not needed.

You know, that other than perhaps a little bit

of transition coaching for people whenever it is they

find themselves in this, that the rest of it

is all just a pretty straight path.

Now, I think that's optimistic.

But I think it's not optimistic in thirty or forty years,

because I think the movement--

I mean, if you just look at what's

happened in the last decade, and where

people's understanding is, and where the majority

of public opinion lays now.

You know, this-- anybody who is waiting for the restoration

of the old world, and the, you know,

burning of us at the stake--

they're on the wrong page.

You know, because this train is moving.

And it's moving fast.

And we're never going to go back.

And so, you know, for the young boy or the young girl who is