Audio Interview, Gary Sweet, July 28, 2012
- EVELYN BAILEY: My own sense is, regardless
- of when you were born and where you were born, if you were gay,
- you always had to go through that process of saying
- to yourself, I'm gay.
- GARY SWEET: First and foremost, yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And getting comfortable with that.
- Because it is still not obviously the norm.
- I mean, everywhere you look, what do you see?
- You don't see gay men and women.
- Yes, we have TV shows now
- that have a gay theme, and may have gay actors and characters
- in them.
- But the world, for all practical purposes--
- GARY SWEET: It's still heterosexual.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Is heterosexual.
- GARY SWEET: Well, yeah.
- I mean it's--
- EVELYN BAILEY: So that process still is wrought with fear,
- anxiety, worry.
- And there are still--
- GARY SWEET: Well, they're young.
- Like I said, back then, you thought
- something was wrong with you.
- Today it's still got to put you through the process
- of accepting yourself.
- But there are venues available to you
- to talk to and understand.
- There wasn't back then.
- I mean, you were on your own.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You were born here in Rochester.
- GARY SWEET: Oh yes.
- Uh-huh.
- Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right?
- Where did you grow up?
- GARY SWEET: The east side, over what
- was (unintelligible), but now it's (unintelligible),
- over Portland Avenue, Clifford Avenue.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- GARY SWEET: Where the tailor shops.
- My mother worked for the tailor shop, Fashion Park Clothing
- over there.
- And that's where I grew up.
- But I was on the east side.
- I joke about going over to Greece,
- I need a passport to cross the river.
- Because I don't know anything about the west side.
- I'm an east side boy.
- I've always been an east side boy.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: Always.
- So except for high school.
- I guess Aquinas is on the west side, isn't it?
- EVELYN BAILEY: You went to Aquinas?
- GARY SWEET: Aquinas is on the west side, I guess.
- Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I taught there for nineteen years.
- GARY SWEET: Did you?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: That's my Alma mater.
- (Bailey laughs)
- GARY SWEET: That's my Alma mater.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That's when--
- GARY SWEET: I was out of there would you taught, though.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- I was there in 1978.
- GARY SWEET: I graduated in '61.
- Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And at that time, there
- were mostly priests and some religious women, I think.
- A few sisters.
- GARY SWEET: Well, we had two sisters when I went there.
- That was all that was there.
- Sister Hildegard, Sister Mercedes.
- They were nasty women.
- They still wore the black robes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Oh yeah.
- GARY SWEET: The Sisters of Saint Joseph.
- They still wore the black robes.
- And they were-- that ruler.
- I can still see that ruler.
- Because I'm not in grammar school
- anymore don't be slapping me with that ruler.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: And it was all boys then.
- And it was, you know--
- you still had to wear your shirt and tie and sport coat
- to school.
- And if they told you the weather was warm enough
- to take of your sport coat, you took it off.
- Otherwise, you kept it on.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: It was a wonderful experience for me.
- It was a wonderful education.
- EVELYN BAILEY: It still is.
- GARY SWEET: I still think they should have the secular girls
- and boys high schools.
- I do.
- This integrating them them--
- to me, it was a bad idea.
- I know they needed the attendance.
- They needed students.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- GARY SWEET: I understand all of that.
- But the discipline and the structure
- was more suitable for just all boys.
- Where once the girls became, then they
- have to start watching different things and that.
- Same with the girls school.
- They started letting boys in.
- You know, the women had to change
- the way they talk to the girls.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Hi, Kevin.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Hey there.
- GARY SWEET: Hello.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You know Gary.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Oh yeah.
- Of course.
- GARY SWEET: How are you, honey?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: You got new tables and everything out here.
- GARY SWEET: They've been here for-- you don't come around.
- The tables have been here for--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I know.
- I don't go to--
- GARY SWEET: Eighty years.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: --any of the bars anymore, Gary.
- GARY SWEET: We're all getting old.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, I wouldn't say that.
- GARY SWEET: I will.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Don't say that to him.
- GARY SWEET: Oh, I will.
- I'll say it.
- I mean, I'll say it to myself.
- I know I am.
- GARY SWEET: We were just discussing about youth
- and how things have changed with them coming out now.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Oh yeah.
- GARY SWEET: Back when I was a boy,
- there was no venues for us to talk to anyone.
- Or no place to research.
- We didn't have computers available to us.
- And if we even did, we'd be afraid to go on them.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: Someone's going to see it.
- Someone's going to know about it.
- Someone's going to find out, you know?
- I mean, even when I was twenty-one,
- I was still sneaking around the corners.
- I got out of the Air Force and my first gay bar in Rochester
- was Dick's 43, on Stone Street.
- And even then, I was petrified.
- Took me two months to even set foot in there.
- I would drive around on the block, cruise around the block
- before finally, this one guy came outside and says,
- "Are you going to drive around the rest of your life,
- or are going to come in?"
- And that was Jerry Hummel, who ended up
- being one of my best friends.
- GARY SWEET: And I went in.
- And back then, it was you couldn't dance with a boy.
- I mean, she allowed it, because she had the police on her side.
- But she would ring a bell when you
- had to stop if the cops were coming by or something.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: She would ring a bell,
- and everybody would just sit back down again.
- It was an experience.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- GARY SWEET: It was something, you know?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, let me go back just a hair.
- You were in the Air Force.
- GARY SWEET: Um-hm.
- Four years.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did you ever see or observe
- anyone being harassed because of their--
- GARY SWEET: No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Sexuality?
- In the Air Force?
- GARY SWEET: I was very closeted.
- But I also had the fortune of being able--
- I was stationed in Wichita, Kansas--
- the asshole of the world.
- I was fortunate enough to have an apartment off-base.
- I worked off-base.
- My captain and I were good friends.
- So he allowed me to live off-base.
- And I was very, very open and active in the Air Force
- off-base.
- I had a lover off-base.
- But on-base?
- No.
- I never saw any harassment.
- But I never saw anybody even attempting to be gay.
- It was just not done.
- I'm sure there were.
- I wasn't the only one in (unintelligible)
- Air Force Base that was gay.
- I'm sure of that.
- But nobody on-base-- I never saw anything.
- Never saw harassment because everyone was afraid to even--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: I was two different people.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: I was Gary outside of the base,
- and I was an airman on the base.
- And I knew where to draw the line, you know?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Let me ask you this, then.
- Because you were out and about while you were
- in the Air Force, off-base.
- But when you came back to Rochester,
- you then felt intimidated again.
- I mean, you drove around Dick's 43 for two months.
- GARY SWEET: Family.
- Once again, I was afraid someone was going to see me.
- In the Air Force, I didn't care.
- I mean, there was nobody there.
- Nobody knew me there.
- I was a stranger.
- I was a new pretty face in town.
- But once I got back to Rochester,
- I was petrified that I was going to see somebody that I knew.
- And I did.
- I mean, a couple of times I ran into the bathroom
- and hide because one of my cousins
- walked in there with his buddies.
- You know?
- I mean, just scoping it out back then.
- There was just gay harassment.
- It wasn't that he was gay.
- He was coming out to check out the faggots, you know?
- And I ran.
- As soon as I saw him come near the door I ran.
- I was shaking like a leaf.
- And Martha Gruttadauria-- God rest her soul--
- she said, "I'll let you know when he's gone."
- And she knocked on the door and let me know when he was gone.
- She protected her boys.
- Martha protected her boys.
- She was the safeguard for all of us.
- Thank God, that woman.
- She was a tough old broad.
- But she looked out for her boys.
- And that's exactly what she called them.
- Her boys.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And she had no problem
- with guys being gay in her bar?
- GARY SWEET: Oh, the money that woman made off of us.
- When she retired the first time she should have stayed retired.
- But she got greedy, and she then ended up
- getting killed in her own bar.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: She got greedy, is what it was.
- But no, but she watched out for us.
- But she made a fortune.
- She used to have a--
- I tended bar for them for four weeks.
- And I got fired.
- She would have a bottle of vodka water.
- It was her bottle.
- She would drink screwdrivers.
- You would have to use that bottle
- and charge them for a screwdriver.
- And it would be water and orange juice.
- If I bought you a beer--
- back then they were all long necks.
- And If you didn't touch it, I had to recap that and put it
- back in to resell it.
- We had to wash our swizzle sticks.
- But back then, they were with the thick plastic.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: They weren't like we have now.
- We used to have to throw those in the water and wash them.
- That's why they're millionaires.
- But I got fired because he counted his beer bottles
- and found out that I hadn't rung up four bottles of beer.
- And he called me in.
- This was her husband Dick.
- That's why it was Dick's 43.
- I showed up for work on Saturday.
- He called me In his office.
- And he says, "Four bottles of beers weren't rung up."
- I says, "Guy was spending a lot of money."
- I said, "I bought him a beer."
- "Comes out of your pay, and get out of here."
- That was it.
- No, "comes out of your pay, now get out."
- OK, bye.
- Years later, I was saying goodbye to them.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah, I got fired from Dick's 43.
- I tell everybody that.
- It was funny.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- What other bars were--
- there was Dick's 43.
- GARY SWEET: The Blue Chip.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The Blue Chip and Dick's were the only two
- bars back then.
- That was it.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Where was The Blue Chip?
- GARY SWEET: Oh, God.
- Over by Allen Street.
- In that area.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- GARY SWEET: But of course, the women had their--
- the men weren't allowed in there.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Riverview.
- GARY SWEET: Riverview.
- And there was another one too, wasn't there?
- (unintelligible).
- The 212.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, Anthony's?
- GARY SWEET: No, no no.
- The 212.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: 212 out in Dutchtown, Hague?
- GARY SWEET: Colvin Street?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Colvin Street.
- GARY SWEET: (unintelligible).
- All I know is his name was (unintelligible).
- It was straight during the day, and lesbians at night.
- And the men knew lesbians were coming in.
- And if they didn't want to leave, they didn't leave.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And it was OK.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I mean--
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- Because (unintelligible), once again,
- was like Martha Gruttadauria.
- He took care of the girls.
- He wanted them in there, because he knew
- they were going to spend money.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: But the Blue Chip was
- basically it was a drag bar.
- A dance drag bar.
- And Martha got that closed down.
- Every other weekend she had it closed down.
- She'd send the cops over there, and they
- would drag the drag queens out.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Talk to us about the drag queens.
- GARY SWEET: You had to wear at least one male attire
- under your dress.
- You could not be totally female.
- You have to have either underpants on, or something.
- You had to have--
- you know.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- GARY SWEET: They had it hard.
- The cops--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: You have to wonder, like,
- who came up with that law?
- You know?
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- Otherwise, they were impersonating a female.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Right.
- GARY SWEET: You know, which, I guess, was against the law.
- I'm not too sure what the law was,
- but I do know that you had to have one piece of female--
- EVELYN BAILEY: We need to look that up.
- GARY SWEET: Yep.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What the law actually was.
- GARY SWEET: The cops were nasty with them.
- Talk about police brutality, they
- used to throw them in the back of the paddy wagon
- and rip their wigs off.
- Embarrass them.
- Call them names.
- Harass them.
- Put them in the jail with the men, instead of separately.
- They were thrown in with all these other rough drunks
- in there.
- With their makeup crying all over their face,
- and everything.
- You know, they had it pretty rough back then.
- They really did.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Who do you remember?
- GARY SWEET: I remember one that used to work for Martha.
- Her name was Jackie.
- I don't (unintelligible) her real name.
- But she was almost like a Dolly Parton in Levis.
- I mean she always had these huge blonde wigs on.
- And she would just wear jeans and a shirt.
- But she had the biggest chest in the world.
- And she was the waitress over at Dick's 43.
- And Buddy Yeakel did drag a lot.
- He's the one that owned-- he was a hairdresser.
- And he owned The Lost and Found.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Diego?
- GARY SWEET: Yeakel.
- Y-E-A-K-E-L. And his lover at the time--
- I think he's still here in town.
- Works over at The Frog Pond.
- He's the cook over there.
- Can't think of his name right now.
- It'll come to me, but I can't think of his name right now.
- But they owned The Lost and Found.
- But Buddy used to do Mae West in drag.
- And there was Bobby Hummel--
- Jerry's brother that did drag all the time.
- Every week, I think, he would go out in drag.
- Oh, there were a lot of them.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wayne Esposito?
- GARY SWEET: Well, he's new.
- Wayne is Liza.
- I mean, that's new.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That's new.
- GARY SWEET: That's after I was here.
- I'm going back in the sixties, yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Bobby Hummel.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- He used to be a waiter at the restaurant on the corner.
- It was very, very, popular.
- Right by the Eastman Theater.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: The Red Hat?
- GARY SWEET: No, it was small.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Oh.
- Not The Red Carpet?
- GARY SWEET: No, that was a gay bar.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: A bar.
- GARY SWEET: Um.
- You had to have a suit and tie to get inside the place.
- If you were anybody you went to that restaurant.
- But Bobby was a waiter there.
- Then he would go out in drag.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Who was he in drag?
- GARY SWEET: Just drag.
- Back then, most of them did do personalities.
- Like Liza does Liza.
- You know, that type of stuff.
- Back then, most of them would take somebody on.
- Otherwise, they just wanted to get dressed up as a woman
- and wear women's clothing.
- What the hell is that?
- EVELYN BAILEY: The Top Hat?
- GARY SWEET: No.
- It was red something.
- It'll come to me, maybe later on.
- I can't remember right now.
- It was a very elite restaurant.
- It was right on the corner.
- Right?
- It'll come to me.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And not The Manhattan?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Not the East Chop House?
- GARY SWEET: Oh, no.
- Not The Manhattan.
- No.
- No.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Because that wasn't really upscale.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah, that was big too.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: No, The Manhattan on the side street by mid-town
- there.
- This was right where that main street--
- It'll come to me.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- GARY SWEET: All right.
- Other than that, um--
- EVELYN BAILEY: So.
- GARY SWEET: Then--
- EVELYN BAILEY: In that era--
- GARY SWEET: That was the late sixties.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Late sixties.
- There were would you say, a lot of female impersonators?
- Or a lot of guys doing drag?
- GARY SWEET: No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And was there one place that they would--
- GARY SWEET: The Blue Chip.
- And that's why Martha had it raided every other week.
- Because everybody would go over there to dance.
- They'd have a drag show.
- And everybody would go there, then she'd be dead.
- So she'd call the cops, and then they'd raid it.
- I think it was her nephew was a lieutenant on the police force.
- And so she would call him, and he
- would get the boys and the paddy wagon,
- and go raid The Blue Chip.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That's helpful, isn't it?
- (laughter)
- GARY SWEET: He was a captain or a lieutenant or something.
- And he would also protect her very much.
- But the paddy wagons were fun back then.
- They really were.
- They'd just pull right up and open the back doors,
- and throw them inside there.
- I just felt sorry for these guys.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: They would treat them as
- if they were gum on their shoe.
- It was terrible.
- It was awful.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- And then 1969 came along, and Stonewall happened in the city.
- GARY SWEET: Nothing changed much in Rochester.
- It did in New York.
- It took a while for it to come around in Rochester.
- We were still petrified because we're too small.
- We didn't have the amount of people.
- New York-- if you wanted to be gay then,
- you went to San Francisco or New York City.
- But in Rochester, I mean, we were cheering, and applauding,
- and were happy for all of this hoopla.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: But it didn't affect us as far
- as making us stronger.
- Not for a long time, I would say.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Hm.
- GARY SWEET: The mid-seventies.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: It was still very closeted here.
- Too many corporations.
- And back then, it's not like today.
- You don't have Lambda and all of those other core groups,
- you know.
- If you worked for Xerox, Kodak, Bausch and Lomb,
- which basically, everybody did.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: You didn't say a word about being gay.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: That was not heard of back then.
- You'd lose your job for sure.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- GARY SWEET: But, I mean, unless--
- I think even if you were union at Xerox.
- Kodak didn't have a union.
- It still doesn't.
- Well, there's no Kodak, but.
- I still think you would have lost your job for being
- a homosexual back then.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Mm.
- GARY SWEET: I can't say, but I know you would have at Kodak
- because I saw a few of them get fired at Kodak.
- Because I worked there for a short time.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: And that was another thing that was not--
- I was closeted at Kodak, you know?
- I was closeted most of my places except for the gay bars.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: That's one of the reasons why I got married.
- It was expected of me.
- Italian Catholic boy, you got married.
- And my mother and father knew I was gay when I got married.
- And my father says, "You won't stop this?"
- But I finally almost had a nervous breakdown,
- and they realized that I just--
- they supported me 100 percent, you know?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: Then they turned the corner.
- My father became my best friend.
- He used to come in here and protect me inside here when
- I first bought this bar.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So, when did you open the Avenue Pub?
- I mean, what moved you into the bar scene?
- GARY SWEET: I had tended bar in the Air Force.
- I had always been either a cook or a bartender.
- Started out when I was a eighteen in the Air Force.
- And came home, and I'd say 80 percent of time
- I had a part time job tending bar somewhere.
- Usually straight bars.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: And I was a mail man.
- And my mail route happened to be Cobb's Hill.
- And I used to go finish early in the afternoon,
- go in to Cobb's Hill Grill, which is Jeremiah's.
- And have a few drinks and before I went home
- to my wife and all this.
- I got to know everybody in there.
- And the owner, Sam Giordano, offered me a job tending bar.
- Nights, which I took, because I didn't have any money.
- I had three kids.
- I worked for the post office.
- So I took the job tending bar, nights for him.
- And from there, he offered me a manager's job,
- and running four of the Carlisi Giordano bars in Rochester.
- And I quit the post office, which probably
- was a mistake at that time.
- But I was excited about his new venture.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: My wife was not happy
- because I lost my benefits.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Sure.
- GARY SWEET: But I started tending bar for him,
- managing the place.
- Then I was general manager for four of their bars.
- They had the Encore, The Pussycat, Ben's Cafe Society,
- and The Music Shop on Saint Paul Street.
- And then they had to sell this place here.
- It was called Neil's Cocktail Lounge.
- He had so many violations that he's going to lose the place.
- And they didn't want to lose it.
- So I was their front man.
- You know, we'll give you so much money,
- put the license in your name.
- You own half of it, we own half.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: OK, why not?
- I want to own my own business.
- So, once again, made my wife unhappy.
- Took it over.
- And it was a very, very, very rough bar.
- It was bikers, Indians.
- They put me in the hospital.
- Like I told you, twice.
- My father used to have to come and protect me.
- And approximately eight to nine months
- after I did this for them, and opened it up,
- they wanted to open up a bar in Perinton.
- He said, "You have to buy us out."
- I said, "Buy you out with what?
- I don't have any money."
- He said, "You have to buy us out, now.
- We need the money."
- And you didn't mess with the Carlisi Giordanos.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I was going to ask you about the Giordanos.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- You didn't mess with them.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Were they Mafia?
- GARY SWEET: Oh yeah.
- They were involved in that car bombing at Empire Boulevard.
- They were at the plaza there.
- The Blue Gardenia.
- They were involved in that.
- I used to hide stolen goods up in my attic for them.
- Which made my wife very nervous.
- Fur coats and stuff like that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And were they connected to the Mafia
- outside of Rochester?
- GARY SWEET: They're connected all over.
- I mean, indirectly, not so much directly.
- But they're all connected.
- There's always one head of the family.
- Sam Carlisi was the head here in Rochester.
- And his brother Joe was his understudy, I guess,
- is what you call it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: And so, I said I didn't have the money.
- They said, well, you have to come up with it somehow.
- So my father loaned me some, and Lindy Nardone,
- who owned A1 Amusement, who had all the machines in Rochester,
- he said, "Whatever you need, you've got it.
- Get rid of them.
- You don't need them.
- You pay me back money for the machines."
- Lindy and I became very, very good friends
- until he finally sold A1 Amusement.
- No questions asked.
- You know, don't sign any papers.
- Just here's the money, give it to them.
- So I bought them out.
- And it was officially all mine.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What year was this?
- GARY SWEET: Well, it would be the end of '75.
- I opened in June of '75.
- I'm going to say December of '75?
- January of '76?
- Technically the license was in my name.
- You know, and all of that.
- They were not--
- EVELYN BAILEY: What was the name?
- GARY SWEET: The Avenue Pub.
- They were not supposed to--
- I mean, no one knew that I had this dealing with them.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- GARY SWEET: You know.
- If the liquor board found out that I had a dealing with them,
- you know.
- So I was glad to be rid of them.
- And then six years later, they came back to me
- and wanted to buy back in to the Avenue Pub
- because I was a success.
- And I said, "No."
- And I will tell you, I was shaking in my pants
- when I said no to them.
- I was shaking, and they said, "Well,
- we're going to put you out of business."
- And that's when they turned the Pussycat into a gay bar.
- Which lasted about six months.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That would have been the early eighties.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- About, probably, '81, '82?
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you remember the name of that bar?
- GARY SWEET: The Pussycat.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- They kept the same name as a gay bar?
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- Well it didn't last that long.
- They just made it known that they
- were going to be a gay bar.
- That drag shows were welcome, because it was a strip bar.
- So they had a huge stage.
- The place was enormous.
- It was big.
- So they thought that they were get all the drag queens and all
- the guys to come in there and dance and everything.
- And like I said, probably about not even six months.
- The way they were treated by the by the Italians,
- or whatever you want to say.
- They just stopped going there.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: And once again, they didn't put me out of business.
- Martha was going to put me out of business.
- You know, when she opened over on Alexander Street.
- She came right in here one night and said,
- "I'll get my boys back."
- I said, "Martha, do what you gotta to do, honey."
- I said, you know.
- I said, "There's enough for all of us.
- Do what you gotta do."
- EVELYN BAILEY: What was the bar on Alexander that she opened?
- GARY SWEET: That was a Dick's.
- They were all Dick's.
- After she closed the one on on Stone Street,
- she opened on State Street.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Right, but it was Alexander and South, right?
- GARY SWEET: Yeah, it was on the corner of Alexander.
- But it was still called Dick's.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: But after Stone Street,
- she opened up on State Street.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: Where Mobil is.
- She had that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: And she closed that and retired.
- And she came in here, and opened up another one.
- You know?
- "My boys will come back.
- My boys--"
- And I said, "Martha, they don't know who you are, these kids.
- You've been gone a long time.
- They don't know Martha."
- "They'll be back.
- I'll get my boys back."
- Well, she got some of the old crowd back, yeah.
- But nothing from what she thought.
- And then she ended up getting killed by one of her customers.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: And that was the saddest thing I'd--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, it's funny that you say that,
- because I remember Dick's on the corner of South and Alexander.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: As a young man saying.
- And the rumor was, oh, that's where all the old farts go.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So you didn't go there.
- GARY SWEET: All the old queens.
- That's where they went.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: The ones that remembered Martha,
- that's where they would go.
- They would talk about the good times, yeah?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: You know.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But at that time, when
- Martha reopened on Alexander, and The Pussycat later on.
- GARY SWEET: Well, The Pussycat was before Martha.
- Martha opened up on Alexander and South in the late eighties.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- Mid-'85, '86.
- EVELYN BAILEY: How many gay bars were there?
- GARY SWEET: Oh, there were a lot of us.
- EVELYN BAILEY: By then.
- GARY SWEET: Yes.
- Oh, God.
- When I opened up here, they told me
- that I would never last because I was out the suburbs.
- Because all the gay bars were downtown.
- (laughter)
- Well, (unintelligible) said, "Gary,
- you're going to make it on Monroe Avenue.
- You're too far out of the loop."
- Well, I said, "I'm going to give it a shot."
- Then the next thing I know, I got Rosie's.
- I got Friar's.
- And they're pushing me in the suburbs.
- You know?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: They all came to Monroe Avenue.
- Oh, let me see.
- We had Jim's.
- The Rathskeller.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The Red Fez.
- GARY SWEET: The Red Carpet.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The Red Carpet.
- GARY SWEET: Friar's.
- Rosie's.
- The Forum.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Tara's.
- GARY SWEET: Tara's.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: We're talking mid-eighties.
- There's Liberty.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- Liberty.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Liberty.
- Or Jim's.
- The LA Saloon.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I never went there.
- GARY SWEET: Out on Lake Avenue.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Bullwinkle's?
- GARY SWEET: Well, that was always-
- that had been around for one thousand years.
- But that was never a gay bar.
- They'd go there and sing on weekends.
- But I could never really consider that a gay bar.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Anthony's?
- GARY SWEET: Anthony's.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: 212.
- GARY SWEET: Well, Anthony's came in the nineties.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Was that the nineties?
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- GARY SWEET: Roy Lawrence's place over on (unintelligible)
- Street.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: That was Backstreets, wasn't it?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Backstreets?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: There was a place called Backstreets.
- It was late eighties.
- GARY SWEET: That wasn't Backstreets, Roy's place.
- I'm trying to think.
- It had a western--
- OK Corral.
- Alright.
- The OK Corral.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And then did he sell that?
- GARY SWEET: No.
- Well, he lost it.
- He didn't sell it.
- He lost it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And then he came here
- and was your chef for a while.
- GARY SWEET: Yes, he cooked here.
- And he used to do drag shows in the barn back there.
- We would have drag shows about once a month in that barn.
- They opened up the doors.
- It had a huge stage and catwalk.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Huh.
- Is that where the--
- GARY SWEET: Miss (unintelligible).
- EVELYN BAILEY: The Miss Gay Rochester Pageant?
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- They had it there are a couple of times.
- You know, because the stage has enormous.
- I mean, that barn is huge in there.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: Oh, I've done it and tried it all.
- I used to have drag shows inside the bar here.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: The drag queens used to actually dance on the bar.
- Because I didn't have room for a stage, and stuff like that.
- I've had live entertainment.
- I mean, I've had just about everything
- you could think of here.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So, we're now into the--
- GARY SWEET: Nineties?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Eighties.
- GARY SWEET: Oh.
- It was still in the eighties?
- OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: It was still in the eighties.
- GARY SWEET: OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And HPA began in 1986.
- GARY SWEET: Um-hm.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- Actually, I don't want to go there just yet.
- GARY SWEET: OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to talk about when you bought out
- this bar.
- GARY SWEET: Um-hm.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And at some point,
- was it a gay bar by that time?
- GARY SWEET: No.
- No.
- No.
- No.
- No.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: At some point you
- transitioned to the gay bar.
- I want to talk about that transition,
- and talk about maybe some of the community harassment
- that you may have--
- GARY SWEET: Oh.
- That's why I said they put in the hospital.
- But I never intended to open a gay bar.
- That was not my intention.
- I just wanted to own my own business.
- But because I had known so many gay people
- from sneaking around--
- and well, Jerry Hummel, one of them, was a friend of mine.
- Said he was going to open a bar.
- And word just spread.
- And I was wanting to open up on June first.
- And I didn't have the place ready.
- And every single day, They would come by and, "Are you open?
- Are you open?"
- I said, "No I'm not open.
- I'm not ready."
- "June fifth," they said, "you're opening."
- And a group that came in started cleaning the place,
- and wiped it.
- Because I mean, I just had to clean.
- They started bringing up the liquor from the basement,
- and the stools up.
- And they said, "You're opening up.
- You're opening up.
- Go get some money."
- And I was open at ten o'clock in the morning on June 5, 1975.
- Not intending on what I was.
- And then the neighborhood started coming around,
- "You will not have a gay bar on Monroe Avenue."
- And I said, "I have a bar on Monroe Avenue."
- I said, "That's what I have."
- And they came in there and they really tried to kill me.
- Literally.
- There were four of them.
- One's still alive, living on the reservation.
- He can't leave because he's wanted for murder.
- But it was Bigsby, Valenti, Gilette, and Moran.
- I'll never forget their names.
- Moran is still on the reservation.
- The other three are dead.
- My cousin was an officer on the police force,
- and he rode in a paddy wagon.
- And would come by here every night and check in on me,
- and see if I was OK.
- And put the word out on the street
- that if you touch my cousin, that's it.
- I had a bouncer that used to just sit by the front door.
- His name was Bear.
- He had tattoos all over his body.
- He had a German shepherd.
- Sat there.
- My father would sit back here as you go to the pool room there.
- I didn't have that side of the bar.
- It was only one half.
- The half where the bar is.
- I didn't have that other side.
- Didn't get that until Bob Lambo, who was my lover,
- bought the building.
- And then he opened it up.
- My father would sit at the end of the bar with a blackjack.
- And on a busy night, we'd be watching Johnny Carson.
- I'd be behind the bar, and I'd have maybe five people in here.
- It took about four-and-a-half, five years for them to realize
- they couldn't--
- I wasn't going anywhere.
- And they just stopped one by one.
- Stopped coming in.
- Stopped harassing me.
- The women were the worst.
- Their girlfriends.
- They were the worst ones.
- They would come in.
- That's why the front door is just an exit door.
- Because they would pull it open, because I'm
- right on the sidewalk.
- Pull it open, and start throwing stuff in.
- Eggs, rocks.
- They would just fling the door open and start throwing.
- A couple of my customers got hurt with rocks back then.
- But nobody would report it.
- They were afraid to.
- Nobody would.
- No, no, no, no, no, no!
- They'd have a cut on their head.
- You know, we'd take care of it ourselves
- because the didn't want to report to the cops.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But technically--
- GARY SWEET: Those were rough days.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You weren't a gay bar.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah, I was.
- Not intentionally, but yeah, I was a gay bar.
- That's why I was having all my problems, because I was.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Alright.
- GARY SWEET: The gays wanted to come to me.
- Oh, they knew me.
- They said, you know, "We'll get over this."
- You know?
- "We'll handle it."
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: It took a while.
- And they started coming in, you know, more and more and more.
- It became very, very popular in the late seventies,
- as far as the place to be.
- On Sundays and Thursdays we had the dancing.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: You know.
- But it was a rough go in the beginning.
- My poor wife, she had no idea.
- Well, she did know.
- I told her it was just a rough bar.
- She wasn't allowed in here because she's
- from South America.
- So whatever I said, she--
- and never set foot in there.
- She didn't know what was going on.
- You know, she stayed home with the kids.
- That's what her job was, because she stayed home.
- She had no idea what was going on over there.
- She had no idea.
- EVELYN BAILEY: On a scale of one to ten, how scared were you?
- GARY SWEET: Ten.
- Especially the first time they put me in the hospital.
- And then they came in on New Year's Eve,
- and barricaded both doors.
- I was home with my family.
- I wasn't even here.
- I had a bouncer.
- I had two bartenders.
- It was New Year's Eve, and my wife
- didn't know it was a gay bar that I've had.
- So she expected me home on New Year's Eve.
- Which I was home.
- And I got a phone call that they barricaded both doors,
- and they stood down the front of the bar, and took their arms
- and tipped the bar over and broke
- every bottle inside the place.
- Wouldn't let anybody leave.
- Wouldn't let them use the phone.
- And I got a phone call when everything was done, you know?
- And my bouncer hid underneath the bar.
- He was petrified.
- He hid.
- He wasn't going to get involved in that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- GARY SWEET: They called me and said,
- "You better call the police, and you better get out down here."
- EVELYN BAILEY: And these were neighborhood people?
- GARY SWEET: The four guys that I gave you the names, yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Four guys, yeah.
- GARY SWEET: They were bikers.
- I can't say they were the Hell's Angels.
- I'm not going to put a name on the group.
- But they were bikers, and who rode for,
- or who they rode with, I don't know.
- But they came in and hung their flag up on the wall.
- I got shotgun holes in the walls inside the bar.
- They're covered up now.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Oh my God.
- GARY SWEET: Were put there before I bought the place.
- But there are shotgun holes in there.
- When I bought the place, the holes were there.
- The cops were here every weekend.
- The front of the building used to be like The Bug Jar
- because it was all glass.
- Every weekend, I guess somebody was
- going through the front window.
- So when I bought the place, I couldn't get the glass insured.
- No one would insure it.
- So I had to change the front of the building
- so I could get insurance.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: They wouldn't even touch it.
- "We're not insuring that place."
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- GARY SWEET: I had to put a new front on.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- GARY SWEET: The only light inside the place
- was where that fan is in the bar, there.
- There was a cord hanging need out of a light bulb.
- That was it.
- There were no other lights inside the bar.
- It just had a light bulb hanging down from the ceiling.
- On a cord.
- You know, on an electrical cord.
- I was out of my mind for buying this place.
- I really was.
- I was out of my mind.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Why didn't you sell?
- Why didn't you get out?
- GARY SWEET: No one was going to make me do it.
- If I wanted to get out, I would have gotten out.
- No one was gonna make me get out.
- My father taught me that.
- He was behind me, too.
- He says, "Do you want to close?
- Do you want to get out?"
- I said, "No.
- They're not going to push me out.
- They're not gonna win.
- I won't allow it."
- And I took a few beatings, but I was not
- going to-- no one was going to make me run away.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- Do you recall at that time, if other bars
- were kind of experiencing some of the same stuff?
- GARY SWEET: No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Or was it targeted?
- GARY SWEET: It was isolated.
- Only because of my location.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: Only because of where I was,
- and because of what the bar was when I bought it.
- They weren't gonna have their bar turned into a gay bar.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I see.
- GARY SWEET: Which was not my intention originally.
- I just had a lot of friends that, you know,
- wanted a place to go.
- You know?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So, at what point
- did you kind of sit back and take a look at your place
- and go, well, we're a gay bar.
- When did it finally dawn on you that well, this is who we are?
- GARY SWEET: Within the first year.
- But for me to make it safe for them to come in here
- and for me to finally sit back and relax and say, "I'm OK."
- It took about two years.
- Two-and-a-half years before I could actually come in and not
- have to hold my breath waiting for someone to come.
- Every time the door would open, I would just look,
- and you know, who's coming in?
- Who's coming in?
- I was petrified.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: You still do that.
- GARY SWEET: I still do that, yes.
- I do.
- Yes, you know.
- Because they know me.
- But for different reasons.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Right.
- GARY SWEET: Now it's more protection.
- I guess it's still the mother instinct,
- or whatever you want to call.
- Because there are still some assholes out there
- that want to, you know.
- But most, even the straight ones that come in here,
- they're phenomenal.
- They get along great.
- I don't consider this a man's bar, woman's bar.
- It's a bar.
- It's a gay bar.
- Welcome to anybody.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: I know a lot of straight couples
- that come in here.
- I mean, when we used to open up earlier, it was funny.
- There was this one couple who used to come in.
- And I forget my bartenders name now.
- But it was every Monday afternoon at four o'clock.
- They were parked in separate spots.
- She would come in.
- Five minutes later, he would come in.
- They'd sit in the corner.
- Knew they were cheating on their spouses.
- Who was going to think of looking for them in a gay bar?
- And we used to-- then we started observing.
- We had quite a few of those people that
- were cheating on their spouses.
- Who was ever going to think of looking for them in a gay bar?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: What better place to hide?
- Go to a gay bar and hide.
- It was hysterical.
- They'd just have their arms around each other
- and drink their drinks.
- Not bother anybody.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- GARY SWEET: It was their meeting place.
- It was really funny.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, I know we need to go back.
- GARY SWEET: Sure.
- EVELYN BAILEY: In terms of the violence,
- I want to move to 1990, 1991.
- When the skinheads were on Monroe Avenue.
- Do you recall that?
- GARY SWEET: I never had a problem.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- GARY SWEET: I never had problem with that.
- They targeted mostly blacks, I think.
- I don't think they went so much after the gays.
- EVELYN BAILEY: They did.
- GARY SWEET: Not here.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Because the Gay Alliance
- was able to get an order of protection for Monroe Avenue.
- Not for a person, but for Monroe Avenue against the skinheads
- between the inner loop, up there at Monroe
- and where the inner loop is.
- GARY SWEET: Um-hm.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And downtown.
- GARY SWEET: I never--
- EVELYN BAILEY: And if anyone saw a skinhead on Monroe Avenue,
- they could call the police and report it.
- And the police would come and clear them
- off the avenue because of the violence toward gays.
- And it may not have been up at this end.
- More--
- GARY SWEET: I think they targeted that.
- Because what you're speaking of now, I do remember.
- It wasn't in the bars.
- It was after the bars closed.
- I remember a few of them getting beaten up on the side
- street leaving the gay bars.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- GARY SWEET: But never inside the bar.
- I think most of that happened between two and four
- in the morning.
- And now that you're bringing it up,
- I think we used to warn our customers not to go home alone.
- To go with someone.
- You're right there.
- But, I mean, it was never inside the bar.
- They would be too afraid because they were groups there.
- They like to get individuals.
- They like to show their strength by beating up one person.
- Or three of them beating up two people.
- They would never come in two of them,
- when there was twenty people around.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- GARY SWEET: Because they knew they would get their asses
- kicked.
- I do remember what you're referring to now.
- But that was never at the bar itself.
- It was just gays in general on the street.
- They would mug them, take their wallets.
- I do remember that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Do you also recall--
- I think it was a little later--
- that men would come in to the bar, hook up with someone.
- Go back to that guy's apartment.
- Rape them.
- Steal their money.
- And kick the shit out of them.
- GARY SWEET: I've heard of it.
- I can't say that I know of anyone in particular that--
- I don't know of anyone personally
- that that happened to.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- Because I know it happened at Arnie's bar.
- GARY SWEET: Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And they sent in decoys.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And once, the decoy got picked up,
- and the word get out.
- And that was the end of it.
- GARY SWEET: I never experienced that personally.
- But I do know what you're talking about, yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: And once again, like I have told,
- know who you're leaving with.
- Simple as that, you know?
- Or tell somebody if you're--
- you still have to have the buddy system.
- I mean, see, that's basically why I watch a lot.
- Because if there's a stranger coming in the bar,
- I kind of observe where they're going, you know?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: They'll walk in, and I
- can tell when they look around, they've never been here before.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: And I've approached them.
- "Yep, can I help you?
- Is there something you want?"
- "Well, where's the restroom?"
- "We don't have a public restroom.
- Get out."
- You gotta.
- I mean, you have to know your surroundings.
- You have to know--
- I call this the gay Cheers.
- Basically, everybody knows everybody in here.
- So when a stranger walks in, heads turn.
- You know?
- Whether he be cute or not, heads still turn.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- GARY SWEET: And I do.
- When I am here, I am very observant on who
- comes in and looks around and doesn't
- know where they're headed for.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: And I'll go up the stairs toward the restroom,
- and I'll jump up and say, "Can I help you?
- Is there something you want?"
- You know?
- "I was looking for somebody."
- "Well, who are you looking for?
- I'll find him for you."
- "Well, let me look around."
- "Just tell me who you're looking for.
- I'll find him for you."
- You know?
- "Well, maybe I'll go outside."
- "Well, maybe you should go outside to wait."
- They never come back in again.
- There are so many different ways to deal with that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- GARY SWEET: Without being violent or physical.
- Everybody there pretty much watches out for themselves.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: And especially my favorite little Carolyn.
- Oh, she watches out for everybody.
- She's been with me twenty-eight years.
- Can't get rid of her.
- She's a socialite in the bar here.
- I mean, she sees a stranger walk in
- and whether she's behind the bar,
- or on this side of the bar, she'll
- maker her point to go up and introduce herself.
- Find out their name, where they're from.
- And watch them from there.
- She's very good at that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: Besides, she likes meeting people.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: It does help in that situation.
- I think the larger bars have more of a--
- they get lost.
- You know?
- You could walk in and get lost in a larger bar.
- Can't get lost in here.
- It's pretty difficult.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: It's pretty hard to get lost.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: Just gotta know who's around.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now we can go back to--
- GARY SWEET: OK.
- Sorry, Kevin.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: No, that's fine.
- I didn't want to rush through that before we
- got into your community involvement.
- Particularly when AIDS came onto the face.
- And all that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The only other thing--
- GARY SWEET: I'm ashamed of myself over that.
- I think I told you too, that when
- the first AIDS came around, and heard about it.
- Never told anybody they couldn't come in here.
- But I remember taking the glasses
- and throwing them away after they left.
- I think about it and I'm very ashamed of it.
- But back then, nobody knew what was going on.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- GARY SWEET: As time went on, some of them
- would come in and say, "Could I have a plastic cup?"
- But I'm most ashamed of shying away and throwing glasses away.
- That was the wrong thing to do.
- I mean, those were my brothers.
- It was the wrong thing to do.
- And I'm still embarrassed about that.
- Nobody knew.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What changed your opinion, your approach?
- GARY SWEET: Education.
- I mean, just learning more about it.
- And knowing some of the people as it went on that
- were my friends.
- I think that's probably the biggest
- one was, the first person I knew that was a friend of mine that
- had AIDS.
- And I said, well, I can't, you know.
- And through his education with me, saying, "Gary,
- you can't get this stuff this way or that way."
- Because I didn't know.
- There wasn't anything out there for us to learn from.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: You had to learn from somebody
- that had the disease, because then they
- found out from doctors.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- GARY SWEET: That was the other thing too.
- It was most of these people waited
- too long to go to the doctor.
- Not only that the drug was unavailable,
- but they waited so long because they didn't
- know what was wrong with them.
- You know?
- They started losing weight.
- They didn't know.
- It was a fast spreading, slow developing.
- It spread faster that we were able to learn about it.
- If there was more out there, then precautions.
- But before we knew how to stop or not spread it,
- it was too late.
- I mean, I never had safe sex in my life.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: I never had safe sex.
- I was always with a partner.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: That's why I'm still alive today.
- And thank God for the partner I had.
- Because otherwise, I think I'd be dead.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I think when you talk to Bill Valenti--
- GARY SWEET: Uh-huh.
- EVELYN BAILEY: He began to see AIDS in 1983.
- As early as that.
- And then slowly, 1981.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: '81.
- GARY SWEET: I was going to say.
- EVELYN BAILEY: '81.
- GARY SWEET: I was going to say.
- EVELYN BAILEY: '81.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Because the first reports really
- started coming out in 1980, '81 in New York.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- GARY SWEET: Here, I'm going to say '81, late '82, when I
- started noticing bar patrons with--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- And then all of a sudden, there was this mushroom
- of sick people who were dying who just weren't having
- the disease, but who were having full blown AIDS
- and dying within a very short period of time.
- GARY SWEET: Because there was no way of treating them.
- Because they didn't know what was going on.
- At that point in time, I was losing a friend or a customer.
- I would say mostly customers or acquaintances, not so
- many close friends.
- I didn't lose a lot of close friends.
- But mostly acquaintances.
- And every time I turned around, it
- would be so and so just died.
- I'd be going to funerals once a month.
- You know?
- It was awful.
- It was terrible.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: And today, I just stopped going to funerals.
- I just think it's barbaric.
- I just don't believe in funerals.
- I just saw too many of them.
- It was too sad.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So how did you become
- associated with Bill Valenti?
- GARY SWEET: They approached--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Dan Myers.
- GARY SWEET: They approached me.
- They said, Gary, you're pretty well known in the community.
- Would you?
- And I never said no to any of them.
- Never once said no.
- I would do anything.
- Even today, I'd still do it.
- I don't say no to anybody.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you remember specifically who it was?
- I mean, was it Dan Myers?
- Was it Bill?
- Was it-- do you remember specifically who of that group
- came to you?
- Approached you first?
- GARY SWEET: It was Dan.
- He was the first one that approached me with the Dining
- for Dollars.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- GARY SWEET: And Village Gate.
- And wanted to know if the pub would
- be willing to do the bar over there.
- You know, to donate and everything.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: At that time, we had to transport.
- There was nothing over there.
- Well, the same in mid-town.
- We had to transport.
- There was nothing over there either.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- GARY SWEET: I'll never forget that first year though.
- They expected maybe fifty, sixty people.
- And I think it was like five, six hundred people.
- They just were beside them.
- We ran out of stuff.
- I had people running back here to get booze from the bar
- because we didn't have it.
- Thank God it was close enough.
- Because we had nothing to sell them, you know?
- We just ran out of ice.
- Finally we just went, what are we going to do?
- You know?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: And that's when they decided, well not decided,
- but Neil Purcella said, "Let me talk to Midtown
- and see what I could arrange there."
- And that was the best venue they ever had.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: That was phenomenal.
- It was great there.
- It really was.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Go back to Village Gate for a minute.
- GARY SWEET: Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: It was the same kind of set up, though.
- Dinner's beforehand.
- GARY SWEET: Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And then the people would come--
- GARY SWEET: That's why it was Dining for Dollars.
- People would have dinner parties at their home,
- and they come for dessert and coffee and drinks.
- That's what it was.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: When did it change into helping people with AIDS?
- That's when it stopped--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, it was always
- helping people with AIDS.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah, but the Dining for Dollars--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Dining for Dollars
- was a fundraiser event for HPA.
- GARY SWEET: Right.
- And then they started doing it at restaurants.
- They stopped having-- but that was later on.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Oh, yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: That was Dining Out, or something.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Dining Out.
- GARY SWEET: That's when they stopped
- doing the Dining for Dollars.
- I believe so.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, AIDS Rochester
- took that on as a fundraiser.
- GARY SWEET: Right.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Dining Out.
- And I think I just pulled the articles from the EC.
- The last real smash of a fundraiser for Dining
- for Dollars was in around 2001.
- 2000, 2001.
- It was at the convention center.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: At that point.
- And then it kind of dwindled after that.
- And other fundraisers that AIDS Rochester were doing began to--
- GARY SWEET: We were smaller in scale.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You were smaller, but they
- took on a larger perspective.
- GARY SWEET: The convention center was too big.
- They shouldn't have gone there.
- They should've looked for a smaller place.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I agree with you.
- Midtown was the best place.
- GARY SWEET: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I can remember having the most fun at Midtown.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- Right.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Remembering all the stuff,
- you know, the decorations that Jessie and Lucas would do.
- GARY SWEET: All of the decorations were phenomenal.
- I mean, the windows.
- I mean, the themes that they had.
- They came up with these themes that were just outrageous.
- And it was just the best time in the world.
- It was for a good cause, a sad cause.
- But the best party was in Midtown.
- It was.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- GARY SWEET: And when Neil's left us,
- and it didn't happen there anymore.
- The convention center was just too big.
- I mean, people were lost in there.
- You couldn't really communicate with each other.
- I mean, it was just too big.
- They should have found a smaller venue somewhere.
- Gay people like to co-mingle.
- They like to be with--
- you know, you just had little groups
- of cliques would hang out.
- And you just didn't.
- EVELYN BAILEY: How many years did you do the liquor?
- GARY SWEET: Until it stopped in Midtown.
- After that, there was no need because the convention center
- had their own.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- GARY SWEET: You know.
- But no, I did it every year.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- GARY SWEET: It was an experience because, you know,
- we couldn't bring anything in there
- until the plaza closed at five, and this shindig started
- at seven, or whenever it was.
- And had to have everything stored at the garage
- and put it up on elevators.
- Then we had to take it all out at night,
- because they had to clean it up on Sunday before it would open.
- It was a lot of work.
- But we did it.
- It raised a lot of money, too.
- EVELYN BAILEY: It sure did.
- It sure did.
- GARY SWEET: I'm very proud to be part of that.
- I really am.
- Same as the AIDS Garden.
- I was proud to be part of that, too.
- I mean, that was quite an honor.
- I mean, we had auctions here.
- A couple of really good auctions when Greg Smith was involved.
- We had some really nice stuff.
- I mean, he and I would go all over soliciting.
- Getting donations from businesses and stuff like that.
- Raised a lot of money on that, too.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Um-hm.
- GARY SWEET: And like I said, if they asked me.
- I'm really, more or less, like a I
- sit in the back and wait for someone to start something.
- (unintelligible) these things myself.
- But if you got an idea, and you want some help, I'll help you.
- Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- GARY SWEET: Just come and ask me, and I'll be there.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Once that noise stops in the background.
- I would like you to talk to us a little bit about Dan Myers.
- About Neil Purcella.
- About the people.
- GARY SWEET: The person?
- EVELYN BAILEY: The persons who were involved in this.
- GARY SWEET: Dan was Nonna.
- Nonna Myers.
- Dan was probably the most outgoing.
- Well, being involved in Al Siegel Center and all that.
- But back then, he was really flamboyant.
- Real outgoing.
- I don't want to use the word flamboyant.
- That's not right.
- But Dan could be when he's in the right atmosphere.
- He would get people excited about things.
- He had a way of doing that.
- Neil was a sweetheart, but he was more in the background.
- He wasn't in the foreground.
- He had the planning stages.
- He had the ideas and what to do.
- But Dan was the forerunner at getting people involved.
- Making sure that the invitations were done.
- And that people were having their dinner parties.
- And that the money was coming in.
- He's quite an organizer.
- But he did it in such a way that you couldn't say no to Dan.
- Because he would smile at you.
- And you'd say yes.
- And that was it, you know?
- And he is today.
- I saw him last Friday.
- But I called him Nonna and he just looked at me
- and just started smiling.
- I can't help it.
- I still call him Nonna.
- That's Dan.
- The Lieutenant Governor was there.
- The Mayor was there, you know.