Audio Interview, Jamie and Sally Whitbeck, September 17, 2012

  • EVELYN BAILEY: I'm here with Jamie Whitbeck and Sally
  • Whitbeck and the date is September 17th, 2012.
  • And I'm in their lovely home at 1077 E. Ave.
  • And we've been talking for a while about our past
  • and our own histories, and I asked Jamie and Sally
  • to consider responding to the question,
  • why have they become so involved in the LGBT community
  • here in Rochester?
  • What catapulted them into activity, into commitment,
  • into sharing of themselves and their time?
  • So I'm not going to decide who answers.
  • I'll let them decide who answers.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: OK, this is Jamie.
  • I think-- I'm not sure where the initial spark came from,
  • but it was involved--
  • it involved with a change in where we lived.
  • We had moved to a new house with our two daughters,
  • and we had been in our house for a few months.
  • And this event happened in early summer,
  • when one Sunday morning--
  • maybe it was Sunday afternoon--
  • two men, whom we had made acquaintance earlier--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: At a party.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: --because they were
  • living in the same neighborhood that we had just--
  • they had just moved into.
  • And now we, also, two, three months later, moved into it.
  • They appeared at our door in the afternoon on a Sunday,
  • a nice warm day.
  • And they knocked on the door and we went to the door,
  • and both of our daughters got to the door before I did.
  • But there they were, the two fellas standing there,
  • and one of them had in his hand a bottle of champagne.
  • It was cold.
  • You could see the sweat on the bottle.
  • And the other had four glasses.
  • And they said, we are coming to welcome us to the neighborhood.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: It was a little less than months
  • because we moved in in June.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Oh, OK.
  • Well.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Anyway.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Well, those two men
  • who lived in the same neighborhood
  • that we did, and we're not going to tell you
  • their names because--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: No.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: We don't need that.
  • Those two men were--
  • well, we learned a lot from them.
  • They-- they had a lovely dog, which both of our daughters
  • fell in love with, and they were welcoming.
  • They invited us to come to their house many times.
  • And as we knew them better, the more
  • we knew about them and their business--
  • they were both professionals--
  • and we realized that they were in the closet.
  • Now, we didn't know what in the closet was, I don't think,
  • but we knew that their being a couple
  • was not acceptable in most situations in this area.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And where they worked.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Well, yeah, Sally.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And where they worked.
  • One worked for the county and he definitely was closeted.
  • The other was a professional at Kodak,
  • and we don't really know if he was.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: So as we enjoyed their company
  • and they came to see us, and the kids
  • kept playing with the dogs--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Right.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: --they began to give us
  • hints about the relationship with their families
  • and the relationship with other gay people.
  • We didn't know they were gay at that time.
  • And we realized that they were unable to speak out
  • about their concerns, and their--
  • their sense of not being accepted.
  • It made us think, well, if they can't speak out,
  • somebody has to.
  • And we began trying to express, from our position,
  • because we were a straight couple with children,
  • that we had to get some information out.
  • We had to get some--
  • how can people be nicer, be more welcoming than it is now?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: OK, let me say something.
  • Our kids were three--
  • were five and seven when we moved in.
  • And-- what was I going to say?
  • This couple became good friends with our family.
  • It was a very tight-knit community neighborhood,
  • spread out geographically.
  • But having potlucks, and we went to their house for dinner,
  • not potlucks, and they came to ours.
  • And the kids were real friendly with them.
  • And it was just a very, very pleasant relationship.
  • And at some point we must have heard on the radio
  • or seen in the paper that--
  • all we can figure is that the assembly
  • must have been voting on SONDA.
  • And we moved in this house in June of 1970.
  • And so at some point along the way--
  • and this was, I'm sure, it seems like it was several years
  • after we moved in--
  • we left there in '84.
  • And it was-- so it was before that.
  • We remember writing our state--
  • probably assembly person-- we remember
  • writing some political figure and stating our position
  • that we were, as Jamie said, a straight couple with children,
  • and we were advocating for the passage of SONDA.
  • We had both-- we had worked in, somewhat,
  • in civil rights for blacks.
  • So this was a civil rights question,
  • although I've come to realize that it
  • was more than a civil rights question because we had
  • these friends, who if they couldn't be out, then
  • we figured that most of the gay community couldn't be out.
  • And as Jamie says, it's up to somebody else to advocate.
  • Somebody-- I mean, it wasn't going to do us any harm at all.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: And we wrote letters
  • to the Democrat and Chronicle.
  • We began to hear, or get involved in,
  • the Gay Alliance, its component that was--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Bill--
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Bill, Bill--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Pritchards, political caucus.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah, political caucus.
  • And that intrigued us, and we met some people there.
  • And gradually, we got more familiar with the Gay Alliance
  • Organization.
  • It was just gradual, getting to know
  • and getting to understand the issues.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Let me stop you for a minute,
  • and I want to go back.
  • Are you both from the Rochester area?
  • Were you born and raised in Rochester?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Mm-hm.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And you earlier said, Jamie,
  • that when you met these two gentlemen, the word gay,
  • the word out, the word closet, didn't--
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: We didn't know that.
  • We didn't know those words.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: I don't know if we knew gay,
  • but we certainly didn't know being out
  • and being in the closet.
  • I don't think we knew any of that.
  • And we may not even have been familiar with gay,
  • but I think we must have been familiar
  • with the word gay, at least.
  • If I was, you were.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: It's a long time.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah, yeah.
  • Sure is, yeah, so.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What in your--
  • what in your upbringing would you
  • identify as being non-prejudicial contribution?
  • I mean, one doesn't assume that if you
  • meet someone who is different, you're
  • going to respond in a negative way.
  • But in 1970, Stonewall had just happened in '69.
  • The Gay Liberation Front began at the University of Rochester.
  • In '73, the Alliance came into existence.
  • By 1977, CETA funding was coming before city council.
  • And then there was the era of AIDS in the '80s, and Jackie
  • Nudd confronting the Chamber of Commerce
  • for not letting us use the chamber to have
  • an annual meeting and dance.
  • And all of the--
  • but, and maybe it's a question you can't answer.
  • Your family of origin must have been very open,
  • or must have been very--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: I'll go first.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --nonjudgmental.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: You go first.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: I am the black sheep of my family.
  • I have two brothers.
  • They are very nice and they're still, fortunately, alive
  • and doing fine.
  • But I was always on a different track.
  • I'll give you an example.
  • When I was in high school, I got involved in the theater
  • that the school provided periodically.
  • Students acted and made plays.
  • And I just latched on to that.
  • I love the theater, and I still do.
  • And when I was--
  • and I knew very quickly that I was not an actor,
  • but I could do back stage work, which I enjoyed.
  • I love to do things with my hands.
  • And at one time, there was a younger guy
  • who was working with me who was, I have to say,
  • almost effeminate, delicate.
  • I liked working with him, and he was a good worker.
  • But I began to hear other guys making cracks
  • about my being so close to this kid that was so namby-pamby,
  • I don't know what you'd call it, but very, very effeminate.
  • Well, that happened and so I kind of backed away.
  • And it happened again when I was in college.
  • Same kind of situation.
  • Well, not quite the same kind, but it was--
  • I felt uncomfortable being too close to this other guy.
  • I liked what he was doing, but his interest in the theater
  • were--
  • they fitted with my ability to make the thing happen.
  • He was doing the head part, I was doing the hand part.
  • At any rate, but he had one of the very few single dorm rooms.
  • At this point, some time in my life,
  • I realized that they didn't want anybody else--
  • nobody else wanted to be in the same bedroom with him.
  • I should know.
  • So I did have these experiences and I really
  • didn't know what to do with them.
  • It bothered me a little, but it didn't bother
  • me enough to get a hold of it.
  • And maybe that's part of what let
  • me get into a different kind of association
  • with different goals.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Hm.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: I was born in Brighton, grew up in Brighton
  • right through high school.
  • I didn't realize that people were prejudiced.
  • My parents never were outwardly prejudicial.
  • And later on, when I talked to my dad--
  • when he took over his father's business when his father was
  • dying, and my dad was twenty-two or so--
  • he said that there were times when the Jewish workers were
  • given less work and therefore went home after half a day,
  • and that when he took charge, he changed that.
  • And he just announced to everybody
  • that everybody was getting an even amount of work.
  • Now, I didn't hear that as a child.
  • I only heard that ten years ago, six years ago.
  • Anyway, but I grew up in Brighton.
  • So I always figured in Brighton there was about--
  • in school, about a third of us were Protestant.
  • A third, Roman Catholic.
  • And our Lady of Lords had a school there for K through 6th,
  • and McQuaid opened at some point there.
  • And a third were Jewish.
  • And I never felt any prejudice.
  • And then we also--
  • also, I went to an Episcopal church, and our minister--
  • minister's wife knew Mrs. Sibley, I think,
  • who worked with-- who was working
  • with the black community for recognition.
  • And one of the things that we did one afternoon a week
  • for a bit was to go to a daycare center,
  • I think on Baden Street or Ormand, associated with St.
  • Julian Simkins Church--
  • let's see, St. Simon.
  • And we went to St. Simon's Church for a service.
  • And I remember the incense.
  • It was really, really fantastic.
  • So I'd had that experience.
  • And as I said, my parents never spoke against anybody.
  • I later found out--
  • one of my grandmothers was Irish--
  • and as I grew up and we were raising our kids,
  • some of that prejudice surfaced in her
  • that I had not been aware of.
  • She had not ever voiced it when I was growing up, so.
  • And your family, how did they feel about blacks?
  • I mean, mine didn't ever say anything one way or the other.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • My grandmother, with whom our family lived for a while
  • at the terminal end of my grandmother's life,
  • we moved into the house, which she had--
  • she and her husband had--
  • well, it was a big, old mansion.
  • And she was rattling around in there alone
  • and she needed help.
  • And some of the help was professional-- nursing--
  • and then they had a cook.
  • Those kinds of things showed me some prejudice.
  • There was, at one point, a partner
  • who was-- not a partner, but an employee-- who
  • came from Europe.
  • Very heavy accent, terrific guy.
  • That was fine.
  • But another time, there was a black person in the same role.
  • And that was not a happy situation,
  • except for one point when he took my younger brother and I
  • to the ballgame, and he knew all the ballplayers.
  • And at the Red Wings, you know?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: But he was--
  • he was aside.
  • He was different.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: You know, I don't think--
  • I don't remember my response to that.
  • He seemed like a nice guy, what should I worry about?
  • But my parents and my grandparents-- my grandmother,
  • anyway--
  • had different attitudes and different perspectives.
  • I did a lot of reading, and I don't know how it worked out,
  • but I began to understand that there
  • were some different aspects.
  • I didn't have to have all of the same things that my other--
  • the rest of my family did.
  • And at that point, my younger brother--
  • well, anyway, so.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But at some--
  • well, because of your experiences
  • and because of your identifying yourself
  • as the black sheep of your family, you were not put off.
  • You were not afraid.
  • You were not cautious.
  • You were not-- any of that in meeting different people,
  • whether they be gay, whether they
  • be Hindu, whether they be Arabs, whether they be pink, purple,
  • or white.
  • And so it seems that this couple that you
  • got to know very well in Rochester, when
  • your children were young and so forth,
  • began to open the door to the both of you
  • and your family to understanding another culture,
  • another way of life that was different, and yet in some ways
  • the same as yours.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Right.
  • But we never did discuss gay, straight, anything
  • like that with them.
  • And yet we were very close in some ways.
  • But we saw how they lived.
  • We knew they shared a bedroom, bed.
  • But it was never disgust.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And that was the time.
  • Most things having to deal with sexuality
  • were not discussed, whether it was gay or straight.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Somehow you were expected
  • to know this by osmosis or from the air or something.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: The water.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You know, the water.
  • When you-- who was the person, though,
  • who got you involved with the Gay Alliance?
  • Was it Bill?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: I can't really remember.
  • It could have been Bill Pritchard,
  • and I don't know how I would have found him.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: We might have read something
  • in city newspaper, which was City East.
  • Although we didn't--
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: There was a theater here
  • There was a theater in Rochester at Calvary St. Andrews Church.
  • Do you know where that is?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: OK.
  • And the church was struggling, and they had welcomed a theater
  • company to come in and use one corner of their sanctuary
  • as a small stage.
  • And I told you, I liked the theater.
  • And this was after we were out there in Fairport,
  • where these other guys work.
  • There was a newspaper column that said it's going to have--
  • here's the play it's going to be.
  • And I talked to Sally about it, gee, this would be kind of fun.
  • Well, Sally didn't think it was kind of fun.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Well--
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Well, I don't want
  • to make a big deal out of it.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah, I want to say something.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: But another one came along,
  • and one way or another--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: It said, all are welcome.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Oh, that's right.
  • That's right.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And this is a big difference
  • between Jamie and me.
  • I think I was brought up to be a good girl.
  • Don't stir the kettle.
  • And Jamie, when his mother said, jump, he didn't say, how high?
  • He said, forget it.
  • So we have two very different personalities.
  • And so Jamie's willing to jump into things that I'm not.
  • And my concern, when he saw the announcement
  • about the first play, was that we
  • would be barging into the gay community
  • and that they might not like that.
  • So we didn't go.
  • But then, as Jamie said, the second time,
  • it said very clearly in the ad in City East, all are welcome.
  • So we went, and we walked in the door to buy our tickets,
  • and we were so welcomed by the person who
  • was in charge, who got this group, Conundrum Players,
  • together.
  • And later, too soon for Rochester,
  • went to New York City.
  • But they did at least those two plays,
  • and they may have done more.
  • There was one, The Watched Pot--
  • two lesbian couples-- no, one lesbian couple
  • played by two women in their youth, and then two women
  • as they were aging.
  • And we still remember that play.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: So we were welcomed.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do you remember-- what was the name of the group?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: The Conundrum Players.
  • But I don't remember the name of the guy who was the director
  • and founder, probably.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: The archives of that church would probably
  • have a record.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Well, I would think also
  • the Empty Closet would.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Probably.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah, that's true.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Because this is still
  • before we moved, but probably very close.
  • Maybe in the early '80s.
  • As I said, we moved in '84, so.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So the Alliance wasn't a theater, though.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: That's right.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: No.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So somehow that group brought you into contact,
  • perhaps, with people who were involved with the Alliance or--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Or maybe it was the political caucus,
  • because we were--
  • well, I think we both were brought up that you voted.
  • I mean, you hear about people who don't vote these days.
  • We just both-- that was something a good citizen did,
  • and so we were politically--
  • we were politically active, because we even
  • went door to door for certain people, like George McGovern.
  • I went door to door with the teenager across the street.
  • And Jamie was active.
  • One of our other neighbors was a Democrat
  • trying to break into the Republican Perinton town board.
  • Jamie managed his campaign.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Hm.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: So we were somewhat politically active
  • on the fringes, let's say.
  • So it easily could have been the political caucus,
  • because we remember going to Ellison Park to a picnic
  • that I think--
  • I think we were invited to, but maybe we
  • just went, where one of the women who
  • was running for Judge.
  • And I can't remember, but I think she's still active.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Ellen Yacknin?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: No.
  • No, this is way before Ellen.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: We did meet Ellen,
  • but that was a long time.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah, anyway, I don't know.
  • So we were in the political--
  • I mean, we were not, probably, members
  • of the political caucus, if they had members.
  • And then that morphed into ESPA--
  • well, political caucus.
  • The GAGV found that they couldn't support
  • a political action committee.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: So I think the political caucus sort of--
  • and I could be wrong about this--
  • but they sort of stopped their political action,
  • at least as a branch of the GAGV at about the same time as ESPA
  • began, the Empire State Pride Agenda.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: So then there was an ESPA party at--
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Home.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: --at home, which was a small restaurant or bar.
  • On-- it starts with C.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Here in Rochester?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah, not Court Street, not-- but very near.
  • Chestnut.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Chestnut Street.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And it was later demolished.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Before they realigned it.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah, right.
  • It was demolished in the--
  • and Jamie knew that there was this ESPA event.
  • And we knew-- oh, who am I trying to think of?
  • Well, we somehow-- well, we knew from the political caucus,
  • we knew a few of the people.
  • And we walked into this, and I remember one guy at the door--
  • whose name escapes me right now, and yet I know it--
  • and he sort of went--
  • he was really surprised, I think, that we were there.
  • And we walked in, and we're not real good in social situations.
  • And we walked up some stairs and we were standing there sort
  • of thinking, what do we do?
  • People were standing around with drinks and some food maybe.
  • And Susan (unintelligible) came over to us.
  • And she took us under her wing and got us something to drink
  • and made us feel welcome.
  • And so after that--
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: And Susan (unintelligible)
  • and her partners and associates.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And friends, yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And so we just went to more ESPA events.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now, do you recall what year that was?
  • Because this is the 20th anniversary of ImageOut.
  • ImageOut began in 1982, and originally--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: No, '93.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: The first film festival was in '93.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: '93.
  • That's thirty years ago.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: No, wait.
  • How can it be twenty years?
  • '93, yes.
  • It's twenty years.
  • Right.
  • Right.
  • Yes, right.
  • 1993 is when ImageOut began.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You do better man than I do, and I'm a teacher.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: I loved math.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Well, blood--
  • ImageOut flows through our veins.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Well, also we joined the Unitarian Church
  • in January of 1978.
  • I mean, we didn't become members right away,
  • but we started going in January of '78.
  • And so the church--
  • I think it was--
  • I can't remember when it started working on becoming
  • a welcoming congregation.
  • And then Jamie can speak to how he got involved in ImageOut
  • through the work that we did at church
  • as the welcoming congregation.
  • And there were--
  • I can't remember if there were any gay people there
  • at the church at that time, but I remember at least one.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yes, one guy that I remember, the tall guy.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: OK, and there was
  • one lesbian couple at least, Judy Lawrence and Pat Collins.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Right.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And they had been in that church
  • before we joined.
  • So we were working on that aspect.
  • And then one of the--
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah, we decided--
  • now, we're switching to putting our venue at the Unitarian
  • Church, and we had this idea of doing
  • some summertime activities.
  • In previous years, the church had had movies periodically
  • during the summer just for fun.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Sixteen mm, whatever.
  • And so we decided we'd try and do that.
  • And I called up Larry Coppard, who
  • was running the little theater at that time and said--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Not Larry, Bill Coppard.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Bill Coppard, excuse me.
  • And I talked to him on the phone and he said, well,
  • I don't think I can help you--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Find a film.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah, I was asking how can I
  • get these films, some films.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: About gay people.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yes.
  • And he said, I can't help you, but there's
  • a man here in my office that might be able to.
  • I'll put him on the line.
  • And the next thing, I was listening
  • to Larry Champoux who was a member of the GAGV board
  • of directors at that time.
  • And he had done some research.
  • This is all stuff that I learned.
  • It wasn't there when I was--
  • I wasn't there, anyway.
  • There was a statewide convention for gay people in Rochester
  • at that Riverside motel.
  • And it was a weekend, and Larry got a room,
  • and put the bed away and put in a TV set,
  • and showed gay movies all day long and all night long as long
  • as people would come and see them.
  • And he did that for all the day--
  • all the time that the thing was there.
  • And he told me at one point, he said,
  • now I know there's an audience.
  • Pink flamingos and purple hearts.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: We didn't go.
  • I mean--
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Well, it was--
  • that part had passed.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Prior to the time that you talked to Larry.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: So then Larry gave me--
  • he invited me to come over to his art gallery.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Pyramid Arts.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Pyramid Arts, at that point.
  • And he had some catalogs, and he showed me some suggestions
  • to look at, and gave me the addresses and stuff like that.
  • And I called up people and sent them letters
  • and got some movies.
  • And then during the summertime, what did we do?
  • Five, six, something like that?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah, we did five or six movies.
  • But it's interesting because we started with--
  • we pussyfooted into this.
  • We started with On Golden Pond, which showed aging and some
  • Alzheimer's.
  • And I can't remember them.
  • We finally made it to one or two or three
  • films that were gay films.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: The last one or two were women's films.
  • And one of them was a woman who was at a ranch in the West
  • because she wanted a divorce.
  • She was probably in Nevada.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Hm.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: And she got smitten
  • by a woman who ran the ranch.
  • Well, all that kind of thing.
  • You know, there it was.
  • That's what we could find.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And then we had dessert and discussion.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: You were going to say something?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So that was the first--
  • well, the first film presentations?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yes
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Of gay films?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah, but just at church.
  • And then Larry talked--
  • called Jamie after that.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • And Larry called me up one day.
  • This was after the business had been there.
  • And he said, I did you a favor.
  • I'd like you to do me a favor.
  • Would you-- we're going to have a meeting
  • to get people together to do a film festival here
  • in Rochester.
  • Would you be willing to come and listen?
  • Well, I said, sure.
  • I'm in the theater, right?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Jamie jumps in.
  • He's wonderful at that.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: And this was when
  • the GAGV was on Alpha Street at the corner of Atlantic.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
  • And ImageOut began as a program.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Right.
  • A program of the GAGV.
  • And I walked in there, and I didn't know anybody
  • except Larry, and he was busy doing what
  • he was getting things going on.
  • But the energy, the excitement, you know.
  • I had to go.
  • I just had to go.
  • So that's you know-- the next thing I know I was in the car
  • and we were taking out flyers and putting them up
  • on bars here in the city.
  • Well, because this is when the film festival is going to be.
  • Oh, it was wonderful.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall now who some of those people
  • were at that initial meeting?
  • Susan Soleil?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Susan and David came in a little later,
  • because Larry was the spark.
  • But it became-- at least the way I have heard it,
  • because I didn't experience this kind of--
  • I wasn't at that level of the politics.
  • But there was some shift midway in the first year.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: So Larry was definitely
  • the director, or the person in charge the first year.
  • And I think Susan and David must have come after.
  • Or Susan, maybe, and Larry the second year.
  • I'm not sure.
  • But then it became David and Susan.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Susan?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Soleil.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Soleil.
  • And David?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Emert.
  • E-M-E-R-T. Not sure.
  • We're not sure.
  • There were some politics going on there
  • that we were just not aware of.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • How many-- how many were at that first meeting?
  • Or the meeting that Larry invited you to.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: All that could fit in that room.
  • It was jammed.
  • That big room on the first floor.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Thirty?
  • Forty?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Could have been.
  • I don't really know.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Did you see--
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yes.
  • Yes.
  • Beth Bailey was there.
  • I remember that.
  • I got to meet her and we worked together in following times.
  • Yeah.
  • That wasn't-- I didn't get that at that moment.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • What did you think when you walked in and saw this crowd
  • interested in movies?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: You know, I didn't have a perception.
  • I think I still have the attitude
  • of if something is interesting.
  • I'm at least going to see if I'm interested in it.
  • Now, would you think that's a reasonable statement?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Definitely.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: OK.
  • I think it was the electricity, the energy, and the concept
  • of creating something.
  • Remember, it has a hook from the theater for me.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: And I had enough understanding and appreciation
  • of our two neighbors to know that this
  • is where part of that energy and attitude has to be,
  • and I want to be part of it.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And I don't think the fact
  • that it was a group of gay people really had much--
  • Jamie just didn't think of it that way.
  • He was invited, which is positive.
  • And he just jumped in.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So that first year that you were involved,
  • what did you do?
  • You ran around and put up posters.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: We put up posters.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And put posters in the bars.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yes, with Tom Krolak and--
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: That's right.
  • Tom Krolak.
  • And the guy lives in--
  • we don't see him much anymore, but he's out there
  • in Penfield in that apartment house out there.
  • And he's got an aunt that he takes care of.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, Ken.
  • Ken Setera?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, OK.
  • Yes, and we knew him from church, too, probably.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: So the links are there.
  • Sometimes you don't get them, and then you do get them.
  • So I'm sorry.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So you passed out posters.
  • Was that your--
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Then it came to the time
  • when we got to the point where yeah,
  • now we got to get the stuff we need to be in the theater.
  • And I'm a carry and hold kind of guy.
  • If you want to help, I'll--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What theater did you--
  • what theater was the--?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Little Theater.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: First, right.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah and it was-- the first theater--
  • the first show was in Little One.
  • And it was--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Oh, and then the Dryden, too.
  • Wasn't closing night at the Dryden, and it sold out?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yes.
  • Yes, that was right.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Because there were people--
  • people from the Unitarian Church, at that point, came.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: And some of them didn't make it
  • because the place was sold out.
  • 500 and some seats.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • Yeah.
  • Jamie--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were you Secretary of the group?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: That happened-- that happened next.
  • First year, year one, year two, year three.
  • At the end of year three, there was a--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Difference of opinion, or different views.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: We split from the GAGV.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: And you probably know the mechanism of it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, you had to get your 501C3
  • status independently.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And you had to become a corporation.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: That's right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Or at least an LLC.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Right.
  • Well, I think from what we understood,
  • the GAGV ImageOut had done very well the first year
  • financially.
  • And so from what I understand, the GAGV,
  • when figuring out their budget for the next year,
  • figured that ImageOut would bring in about that much money,
  • maybe a little more.
  • I don't know.
  • And second year, they didn't do as well.
  • And I'm not sure about third.
  • But I think what it became was the artistic personalities
  • of ImageOut didn't want to be held
  • to a budget, where they had to earn
  • a specific amount of money.
  • They were much more interested in the artistic view.
  • So that's why they split from the Gay Alliance.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
  • It was a financial concern.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: We had a meeting upstairs over a bar
  • just up from south of Main Street.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Tara's?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Could have been.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Could have been.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Or Eroise?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: No.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Friar's?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: On the first floor, the main floor,
  • where the bar was, there was a big nude statue of--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: The Liberty?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: No, the--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Marcella's?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: That could be.
  • That could be.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Underwater, sort of a water god kind of thing.
  • And we had-- there was a space upstairs,
  • and we sat around up there.
  • And Susan Soleil and a couple others
  • talked, and we got to the point where, OK, we'll do this.
  • And it was a couple of weeks later,
  • I'm in a house over off of Monterey avenue,
  • just up from under the Expressway.
  • And we sat around and tried to figure out what
  • we needed to do to do this.
  • And we got an accountant to one of the gay people.
  • And he did the kinds of things that needed to be done.
  • The legal.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And Paul Mura did the legal.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Paul Mura did that, right.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: And so he got that set up for us,
  • and Angela Bonazinga, who was--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Brighton librarian.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Well, yeah, but she was--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Susan Soleil.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Susan's partner.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Oh, right.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: And Angela did a whole lot of accounting stuff
  • to make it happen, you know.
  • All of these things happened and we just sailed in.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And you did become Secretary.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yes, that's right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: A board was created.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: We had to have a board.
  • And as a consequence of being at that meeting,
  • OK, I'll be whatever you want, and I was the scribe, so.
  • Those are the things that I gave you a year ago,
  • or whatever it was.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • Right.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: It just went on from there.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And you were secretary for three years?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah, that was the--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: I think it was two.
  • I'm only thinking it wasn't the full period
  • because there was talk about letting new people in.
  • And so I think after--
  • I think Jamie did it maybe for two years,
  • because it seems to me that you gave up your seat earlier
  • than the three years so that new people could
  • come in to the board.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: I won't argue with you
  • because it's a long time.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And meanwhile, you were doing PR,
  • you know, a lot.
  • There wasn't a big volunteer group.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah, we didn't have a big organization.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: So he did a lot.
  • He was even chair of a couple of committees--
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Right.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: --for a few years in there, at least.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And would bring things home,
  • and we'd put the PR stuff together and send it out.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Oh yeah, we did a lot of that.
  • Sally was the head licker and stamper.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: I was the at home helper.
  • I was working-- he was working, too-- but I was working
  • and I had a lot more to do around the house than he did,
  • you know.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And so I'm much more
  • conscious of my gift of time than Jamie is.
  • I'd stay home and wash the dishes.
  • He'd go to a meeting.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Now I wash the dishes.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: That's woman's lib for you.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Miss Magazine, 1973.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Let me ask you, what
  • do you think the impact of ImageOut
  • has been on the Greater Rochester community?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Well, I'll tell you, I can think of two things.
  • One thing that I can think of is that it
  • has produced and displayed every year since the beginning,
  • and it's an established event.
  • Anybody in the city can go there and see the movies.
  • And I think-- you know, Sally and I
  • do theater operations mostly.
  • We only do that now.
  • And the variety of people that come in--
  • lots of the same people coming every year--
  • but there are more and more people
  • who are coming in because this or that movie
  • seems to tickle them.
  • It's out there in the newspapers.
  • It's out in the city newspaper, as well
  • as the Democrat and Chronicle.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And the Empty Closet.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yes.
  • So that is one change, I think, that has happened.
  • And one of the consequences of that
  • is there was that Jewish Film Festival,
  • there was the Women's Film Festival.
  • There were several others that popped up.
  • And we were the ones that did it,
  • other than the shoestring group, which was much earlier
  • and it's still around in different arrangements.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And based at the Dryden.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: It's always been.
  • Yeah.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • Well, I started out on Goodman Street at the school
  • there were that theater is.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Visual studies?
  • Honey, well, it's been at the Dryden for years.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • But it wasn't always there.
  • We saw movies on a shoestring, and behind the--
  • behind the Museum and Science Center in that--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Straussenburg?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Not at the planetarium.
  • On Goodman Street.
  • It was a girls school.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, Columbia.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Columbia School.
  • Thank you.
  • But the Museum and Science Center
  • had brought that when Columbia moved to Allendale.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Oh, OK.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: And so here was this school and the gym.
  • And the gym could be a theater.
  • And it was.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Well, one thing we do know
  • is that somebody in the Jewish community
  • knew Rachel Brister who was the person who was really
  • the volunteer staff person for a long time for the film
  • festival, for ImageOut.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: For several years.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And so they talked to her about
  • how do you set up a film festival.
  • So Rachel gave them her expertise.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: I sometimes am surprised
  • that there are people in the gay community who
  • are unaware of ImageOut, or have been in the past.
  • Maybe-- it's probably not so much now--
  • but I remember being surprised that there are people who--
  • they just must not read any of the newspapers, Empty Closet
  • or the Democratic and Chronicle.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I think that's pretty accurate.
  • But I also think today you have social media,
  • like Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn and BranchOut,
  • and on and on and on, where the information gets out there.
  • Events can be promoted on those sites.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So it's not so "unknown," quote unquote.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: However, you have a generation coming up
  • every year.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And they certainly are not
  • informed as much as they could be,
  • because they don't pay attention to--
  • I mean, they listen to the TV, maybe for CNN.
  • But they get all of their news on this handheld whatever.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Mm-hm.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And unless you ask for it,
  • it's not going to appear.
  • It's not something you're going to ordinarily see
  • as you would if you were reading a newspaper,
  • where you would see an ad, or you would
  • see an article or something.
  • Unless on this handheld device you request to see something,
  • it's not going to automatically show up.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Now, on the other hand,
  • there are people who have come for years.
  • There is one man from--
  • at least one, from Pittsburgh--
  • who comes for the whole festival and stays with Scott McCarney
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Right.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And there are others.
  • And there are people who come from Buffalo,
  • and have been for years.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: We took programs down to Ithaca for years.
  • I don't know if anybody came from Ithaca.
  • We never ran into anybody.
  • Oh, and there's even somebody-- we
  • did make friends with who came from Toronto.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: So.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: In terms of the gay community,
  • what do you think the film festival means?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Well, I would think it's people
  • being able to see themselves portrayed on film,
  • which was not possible twenty--
  • not very possible twenty years ago.
  • And I think that's really important.
  • And also, it's a coming together of a community,
  • and people look forward to that, I would think.
  • I know, as a theater operations person, taking tickets,
  • I look forward to seeing people--
  • people who will become friends, and also people
  • I just recognize from having attended the film
  • festival for many years.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: What do you think?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: You said it.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: OK.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So for each of you,
  • I would like you to answer this question.
  • When you look back over your involvement with ImageOut,
  • what stands out most in your mind?
  • What-- was there a particular film?
  • Was there a particular year?
  • Was there a particular event?
  • Opening night, closing night?
  • What stands out most in your mind about the festival?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Well, we did get award, which is
  • more for your work than mine.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: The ability--
  • the experience of having been part
  • of this vibrant organization with interesting people
  • and interesting entertainment, and the enjoyment
  • of not only just taking in the show,
  • but also being a part of the process.
  • It's very satisfying to me to even sweep up the popcorn
  • and get it ready for the next show.
  • This is an activity, but more than just an activity, it's a--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Event?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Well, it's an event.
  • It's almost a theological kind of thing.
  • It's almost--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: A spiritual experience?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah, a spiritual experience,
  • because you're working with the people--
  • with other people, with other people who have--
  • they're working with you and you share and you don't have--
  • nobody is getting angry at anybody else.
  • They're all working to make something
  • that we think is good and fun and interesting.
  • And it can't be done by magic.
  • It's the process of people putting it together and making
  • it happen so that lots of people can participate,
  • however much or not.
  • The people that we don't know whose name they are,
  • they still may be getting things that maybe we don't get.
  • But that's OK.
  • That's nice.
  • That's very good.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Sally?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: I'm really proud to be
  • a member of the film festival.
  • There are so many volunteers, that I'm proud of it
  • as a volunteer organization.
  • We still, after twenty years, only have one part-time office
  • person.
  • Everything else is volunteer.
  • And of course, there are people, especially the programmers,
  • who spend a lot of their-- give a lot of their time, Michael
  • Gamilla being the notable person at this point.
  • But there's a lot of people who work on it together.
  • And we do get some funding, but when the Women's Film Festival
  • started--
  • maybe what?
  • Five years ago?
  • I was a bit turned off because they got
  • a tremendous amount of funding.
  • They get funding from the county, which of course, is
  • anti-gay with Maggie in there.
  • And everything was really high-class,
  • or it just didn't have the grassroots
  • support that ImageOut has.
  • So I'm just--
  • I would much rather belong to a group
  • where there's volunteers than to a group that
  • makes it or doesn't make it, as they've had problems
  • relying on lots of money.
  • And I'm proud.
  • When I say I'm proud, I don't think of myself
  • as being proud as a straight person.
  • I'm just proud as a person to be part of this community effort.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Is the Women's Festival still--
  • Film Festival still--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: I don't know.
  • They hooked up with shoestring and then
  • I remember reading something about,
  • well, they were going to come back.
  • And maybe last year they showed a couple films.
  • And they always have these great movie stars coming to town.
  • And ImageOut has great gay movie people coming--
  • movie stars.
  • And in the beginning, some of them, at least,
  • were put up in people's houses.
  • Because one young gay couple stayed with us.
  • They were from Toronto and one of them
  • had produced one of the shorts.
  • So I don't know the situation with the Women's Film Festival.
  • I haven't followed it, and it comes
  • very close after ImageOut, so I've seen
  • enough movies that I've seen--
  • I must admit, I've never seen any through the Women's Film
  • Festival.
  • One year we saw one on Louis Kahn, the architect
  • of the First Unitarian Church shown in the Little Theater,
  • that it had been a film in the Women's Film Festival.
  • But this was after the film-- after their festival.
  • And there was at least one other showing with a panel.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Hm.
  • I don't recall seeing much or hearing much
  • about it, actually.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: No, no.
  • They do have some people who work hard as volunteers.
  • I know one person, Betty Schaefer who
  • they put a lot of time into it.
  • But it always seemed to me that the money came very easily.
  • And people who volunteer as volunteers there will be told,
  • OK, you'll do six hours today, and that's sort of it.
  • There isn't the sort of the family
  • that you find in ImageOut.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Sense of community.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah, right.
  • Right.
  • And as a woman, I'm surprised sort of--
  • chagrined that I feel that way about the Women's Film
  • Festival.
  • But I think it's also a money thing, and a high class
  • versus the rest of us.
  • Not that we're low class.
  • ImageOut is high class.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well I think what you're--
  • and not to put words in your mouth-- but ImageOut
  • makes a huge attempt to make their films affordable.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yes, very much so.
  • You're right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: To everyone, regardless of economic status.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Right.
  • And that's very important to me.
  • It always has been.
  • Somehow, as a kid I've always had that concern.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Sense of fairness.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yes, yes.
  • A very strong sense of fairness.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • Now, I don't want to put either of you in a bad mood.
  • But when Jamie and Sally are no longer here,
  • how do you want this community to remember you?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Oh, wow.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Well.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: As supporters, as friends.
  • That's really all I can think of, supporters and friends.
  • Jamie said, and I certainly agree, that we are as--
  • we are probably more blessed by the community
  • than they are by us, in the sense
  • that we've received an awful lot from our experience,
  • and enjoyed it.
  • The politics with the Empire State Pride Agenda.
  • ImageOut is just-- we're accepted, which is important.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: I'm thinking that I
  • would like to be remembered of sharing
  • my best friends, and my two children,
  • and my wife, and my best friends.
  • That is the central part of my family.
  • I am much closer in my interest and passion
  • for being a part of the gay community in a very small way.
  • I'm not gay, but I've been welcomed
  • by the gay community in a way that, other
  • than my family, no other organization or group
  • has done that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • Now, a couple of more questions, and then we can--
  • you, I think, have received a couple of awards.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yes we have.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: One was from the Empire State Pride Agenda.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And that was?
  • Do you remember what the name of that--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Well, Jamie has them all up here.
  • First came ImageOut.
  • First was the GAGV.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Ah.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: 1997.
  • 1997 GAGV Friend of the Community Award,
  • Jamie Whitbeck.
  • And then-- these are heavy.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You don't have to bring them over, Sally.
  • Then ImageOut Volunteers of the Year Award, Jamie and Sally,
  • October 2006.
  • And that was the first volunteers award
  • that ImageOut gave, so that was very moving.
  • And then in 2000--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --10?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: '08 or '09?
  • I've looked at it.
  • 2009.
  • Something of the Community.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Friend of the Community.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Friend of the Community from Empire State
  • Pride Agenda, because we've been going to Empire State Pride
  • Agenda lobby days since we were at church.
  • In fact, the first year we went, we
  • went as clergy and laypeople-- concerned laypeople went.
  • And we drove and there wasn't any--
  • that was a different day, and I don't
  • think they had their lobby day at that point.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: So it was the GAGV that first gave Jamie
  • the award.
  • So 1997.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: And there's one more.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Oh.
  • Ah, well, that's ImageOut, isn't it?
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Let's see, 2007 Streets of Pride Lifetime--
  • This is with the parade.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yes, pride.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: The parade.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Lifetime Achievement.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Pride Parade.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, OK.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Oh, community business forum.
  • All right.
  • I forgot about that.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: That might have been
  • the last year of the community business forum.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: No, it wasn't.
  • It wasn't, I don't think, was it?
  • It went on--
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Lifetime Achievement.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Nineteen what?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: 2007.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah, and the community forum's
  • been around longer.
  • Just somebody left town who ran it.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: The two guys that went to Texas.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Tim Strongman and Jerry Mason.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yes.
  • Right, right.
  • Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: The Alliance, this was their third year.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Oh, OK.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: With pride.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Yeah
  • EVELYN BAILEY: This is their third year.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: So we walked in the pride parade.
  • The church walked in the pride parade
  • before we got involved in the gay community.
  • I'm sure it was after the--
  • well, maybe Jamie was involved in ImageOut,
  • and I somewhat in the background.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Yeah, that's right,
  • because I walked with the GAGV and you walked with your church
  • group that first time.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: OK, and then we both walked
  • with church for several years before ImageOut
  • walked in the parade, I guess.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Or we walked in the parade
  • with the church group.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Right.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Oh, right.
  • OK.
  • Yeah, all right.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: For a few years.
  • Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So now I have one final question.
  • What would you say to a young person
  • who is becoming involved in the gay community,
  • or who is just coming out?
  • What would you tell them?
  • What advice would you give them?
  • SALLY WHITBECK: It would sort of depend on their situation,
  • wouldn't it?
  • Whether their family is accepting or not.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Possibly.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Mm-hm.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But I guess when I'm
  • kind of looking for is here you are,
  • thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen,
  • nineteen, twenty, twenty-five, thirty-five, forty.
  • And you are now accepting of yourself
  • as a gay man or a lesbian, or any anywhere on that spectrum.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: Mm-hm.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What would you say to them to encourage them
  • to continue to move forward?
  • I mean--
  • SALLY WHITBECK: I would hope that they would get involved
  • in the gay community through--
  • I would tell them about ImageOut and the volunteers that
  • work there.
  • And there's lots of volunteers.
  • And for some, it's a commitment just
  • for a short period of the year.
  • I would certainly want them to know about Empire State Pride
  • Agenda and even more so about the Gay Alliance,
  • if they didn't know about it.
  • I would try and connect them with somebody who's--
  • probably somebody who's in the Gay Alliance.
  • But if it were ImageOut time, somebody in ImageOut also.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: If this person had no other organization
  • or individual to point them in a way toward something
  • like the Alliance or the GAGV or the Film Festival, but to--
  • you will need support.
  • You you will need support.
  • And you need to go with your heart even more than your head.
  • It may be painful, but it is more important to be yourself
  • and to find people like yourself who can share with you
  • and help you, other people who will love you.
  • That's what I would say, I guess.
  • It was a long way down.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
  • Well, I think--
  • I could be--
  • I don't think I'm wrong in my impression,
  • but that has been a very mutual relationship between you
  • and Sally and the community, and the community and you
  • and Sally, that there is--
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: We have said, we have
  • these blessings so many times from an event
  • with the gay community.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And thinking about it,
  • I didn't realize how important it was.
  • There was somebody at church who,
  • when we were on the committee to become
  • a welcoming congregation, that person went to the Gay Men's
  • Chorus concerts, but she definitely
  • said to people on our committee, you shouldn't go to the picnic.
  • Gay people want to stay by themselves.
  • They don't want-- not that we-- not that anybody
  • was going to go to the picnic, but it was an us and a them.
  • Not in a negative way, that's for sure,
  • because she certainly is a supporter.
  • And I think, from my perspective,
  • and thanks to Jamie, because as I said, he jumps i.
  • And I would have to be--
  • well, he was invited by Larry Champoux--
  • I would have to be sure that the community wanted me.
  • And I'm sure there are people in the community who don't.
  • We went to a birthday party once about ten years ago.
  • There was a woman there-- it was at this person's house--
  • it was a big birthday.
  • Maybe it was her 50th, I don't remember.
  • And there was a woman there who was speaking vociferously
  • against straight people, and then all of a sudden
  • we walk in the room, and I think it gave some people
  • bit of discomfort.
  • And I must admit, I just stayed away
  • from her the rest of the evening.
  • Now, I'm maybe more mature.
  • I would maybe talk to her.
  • I can't remember my train of thought.
  • What was my train of thought?
  • Anyway, it's thanks to Jamie that we're
  • in the community, and thanks to Larry Champoux.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Mm-hm.
  • And to our two friends who gave us
  • a gift, because we learned from them and without--
  • How do I want to say this?
  • No tangible or verbal statement was expressed,
  • but what it let us do is use our own heads and our own hearts
  • and to see where we could make a difference.
  • And they were the people who showed us
  • where the opportunity might be.
  • SALLY WHITBECK: And we know--
  • we cared for them very much, and they cared
  • for us and our two daughters.
  • So there was that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, thank you very much.
  • JAMIE WHITBECK: Thank you.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: It has been a very humbling experience
  • to be with you and to listen to your stories.