Audio Interview, Jimmy Catalano, May 17, 2012

EVELYN BAILEY: OK, we're here with Jimmy Catalano who

is currently--

he's a florist and he's working at Kittelberger's.

But had his own florist shop and has

been a member of the community for many years.

Had his own florist shop on Park Avenue at Edgerton Florists.

And I think prior to that you were where?

JIMMY CATALANO: I was in a bunch of different locations.

I started out of my home in the Edgerton neighborhood

which is where the name comes from.

That was on Lorimer Street.

And then my first shop after the business started taking off,

I opened up a storefront on Lake Avenue at the corner of Ravine.

And then moved from there because it really

started taking off.

We went to Lake Avenue at Lexington.

And then the neighborhood started to sour.

And my little, frightened Pittsford ladies

were frightened coming to Lake Avenue.

So we moved out to Irondequoit, Portland Avenue and Ridge East.

And then our landlord leased over our lease to Rite Aid.

And I moved to Park Avenue and spent the last eleven

years of my twenty-six years in business on Park Avenue.

EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.

JIMMY CATALANO: So that was wonderful.

We've been living on Park Avenue for eighteen years.

So it was nice.

We got immediately involved in the neighborhood

when we moved there.

And then when I opened up the store there,

I immediately became involved in the Merchant's Association.

So in essence I still run the Merchant's Association.

And my partner and I run the Neighborhood Association.

EVELYN BAILEY: Good for you.

JIMMY CATALANO: It's a great, great area.

Great neighborhood.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I don't remember where on Park Avenue you were.

JIMMY CATALANO: I'm on Park Avenue.

Well the shop was between Rowley and Meigs.

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.

JIMMY CATALANO: And I was in two separate buildings.

The front showroom was right on the street edge.

And then there was a detached building

in the rear that was the workshop.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I remember being down on Lake Avenue

but I don't remember it on Park.

JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah.

A little tuck away.

I mean, the store front showroom was probably

as big as this room.

EVELYN BAILEY: Now, were you born in Rochester?

JIMMY CATALANO: Born and raised in Dutchtown in the Jay

and Glide Maple Street area.

And then in '65 the expressway came

through-- the 490 expressway came through

and took our house.

EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, wow.

JIMMY CATALANO: And we moved out to Gates

with the rest of the Italians that were in that neighborhood.

And then when I turned nineteen, I came back to the city

and my |first apartment was on Avery Street at Lyle Avenue.

And I've just always stayed in the city.

The 10th Ward, lived in the 10th Ward for a number of years.

I loved it there because you could

live in a mansion for next to nothing.

The rents were so reasonable.

And as much as I wanted to live on Park Avenue,

it just really wasn't affordable.

Even with roommates it just wasn't affordable.

And then when I met Bruce I had purchased

a home in the 10th Ward.

But he had to buy a home.

He was making really good money and he had to buy something.

We met in September and my house purchase

was in process at that point.

And if I remember right, I closed in December

just before Christmas.

And we met that September of '91.

And then stayed in the house on Pierpont Street for two years

and then bought Park Avenue.

EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.

JIMMY CATALANO: We've been there now.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Where on Pierpont?

JIMMY CATALANO: Number 100 between Sealy Terrace

and Driving Park.

Right at the start of the street.

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, up there.

Because I live on Raines.

JIMMY CATALANO: OK.

It's the rowhouse that's right the minute you come down

Pierpont Street from Driving Park,

it's that three unit rowhouse.

And I was the center unit.

Nine room townhouse, I loved that place.

I just loved it.

EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.

JIMMY CATALANO: But we had to grow, so--

EVELYN BAILEY: Now, when did you come out?

I mean--

JIMMY CATALANO: I was a late bloomer.

It's funny because I was telling Ann

that I started being active when I was thirteen I was

kind of the neighborhood slut.

I was the one that started all the tent

parties and that kind of thing that we do when we're teens.

And I was very, very active with a lot of the sports teams

in school.

Of course, behind closed doors and under carpets and God

knows where else.

And nobody will ever to this day admit it,

but I definitely took care of a lot of the guys

that were involved in the sports at Gates-Chili High School.

But didn't really come out.

I was probably twenty-two or twenty-three,

I had lived in this apartment building on Avery Street.

It was nine apartments in this building on the corner of Avery

and Lyle.

And it was people that I worked with were there, living there.

And it was friends of friends, you know.

I had a friend that was living there.

A friend of theirs wanted an apartment there.

It was just one of those things.

It was like living in a dorm.

And they were all straight.

What goes through your head is am I going to have friends?

Are these people going to talk to me?

You know, I'm not going to be able to hang out with anybody.

And I'm very social.

I'm very socially active.

So, I did a lot of late night slip out

of the apartment kind of a thing and go sneaking around.

And a girl had moved into one of the apartments

across the hall from me who was gay.

And she knew that I was.

I mean, she pegged me immediately.

And she kept pushing for me to go to Jim's.

And I had been by Jim's countless times.

And I would just drive by it.

Constantly just circle and circle

and circle and circle and just not have the guts to go in it.

And she just said we're going to go out to Jim's.

I think you'll like it, you'll have fun, it's a great place.

And you know, it's the push I needed

to get me through the door.

And you couldn't keep me out of there once I got in.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you remember about what year that was?

JIMMY CATALANO: I'm going to tell you

it would have been '78, '77, '78.

Right in through there easily.

Because I was working as a waiter at the Wishing Well

at that point.

And a husband and wife team owned it and their four adult

children helped run it.

And we were all the same age.

And they were very comfortable with gay people.

They had a lot of gay friends and they

made me feel comfortable in my own skin

that gay people are OK.

It's not a big deal.

We don't care and they definitely

facilitated in my coming out and being comfortable with it.

To the point where as far as whoever

was at the apartment building, I really

didn't even give a shit whether they knew or not.

I started hanging out with gay people

and then wound up with gay roommates moved out

of the building and all that stuff.

But I came out, and I came out with a vengeance.

(laughter)

I made up for a lot of lost time.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to talk or share with me that first

experience of walking into Jim's.

JIMMY CATALANO: It was magical, KEVIN INDOVINO.

The lights, the music.

And it's funny that Donna Summer passed away today

because the first song I remember was Spring Affair.

And just the thumping of the music,

and the melody in her voice.

And you know, the days at Jim's, they had all those lights going

around the dance floor that said you know, orgasm and pulse.

And I can't remember a lot of the words that

were up there but to me it was fascinating.

And the people were just so into the party with tambourines

and castanets and the flaggers were there you know,

with the fabric and the weighted fabric.

And Tony Green, I remember him like

it was yesterday with his tambourine.

And the amazing dancing, almost choreographed dancing,

between these gay guys was just--

it really, really was magical.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Did it give you--

was it your first sense of this is where I belong?

JIMMY CATALANO: I can't tell you that I remember

saying this is where I belong.

But I do remember saying this isn't bad.

There's nothing wrong with me being here.

And I can come here now on my own

and I don't have to be afraid.

And you know, your first few trips there

where you don't really know anybody

I remember being a little--

I don't know if I would say frightening, but maybe

intimidating because you know you just don't know anybody.

So you just kind of wind up standing there and just

watching and observing and stuff like that.

But people really, really were very, very friendly.

And the fact that I was there with this girl that

lived across from me was Linda, the fact

that I was there with Linda, she knew a few people.

And this girl Sandy Marino that she was seeing kind of

was out there.

She kind of knew a lot of people.

And so I quickly got to meet people.

And even if I didn't talk to them when I'd go back,

they were a familiar face, made me feel very comfortable.

I could say hello to them, they recognized me,

they'd say hello to me.

Made a big, big difference.

It really made a big difference.

And then you know, I just I started gathering friends very,

very quickly.

And it just exploded from there.

Those were the days too that, if I remember right,

we had like thirteen gay bars in the city.

There was Jim's, and Friar's, and The Avenue Pub of course,

The Forum was going, LA Saloon was going.

People used to go to Bulwinkle's then at that time.

What the hell else were there?

There was just so many bars and then back streets opened.

That was a while after though in the '80s they opened up.

EVELYN BAILEY: The Rathskeller?

JIMMY CATALANO: Rathskeller, yeah, on Elm Street.

EVELYN BAILEY: Red Fez?

JIMMY CATALANO: I don't remember that one.

I remember I'll tell you there was the Red Fox, wasn't there?

Didn't Jesse vulo have The Red Fox before Friar's?

And I knew that was gay.

And that was another bar I would drive around and drive around

but would be too scared to go in.

KEVIN INDOVINO: What was the LA saloon?

It's the first I've heard of it.

JIMMY CATALANO: LA Saloon, Freddie Brown

owned The LA Saloon.

KEVIN INDOVINO: On Lake Avenue?

JIMMY CATALANO: It was on Lake Avenue,

right at the start of Lake Avenue.

I think it's a restaurant now.

Maybe like a dog, like a Marx Texas Hots number

two or something like that.

It's down from Spiro's, Tip-top is.

It's like between State and there's a Tip-top Restaurant

which was between State and Ambrose Streets,

across from the Old Judge's Ford.

EVELYN BAILEY: Dick's 43.

JIMMY CATALANO: I remember Dick's 43

but I never went in there.

I heard that was a rough place though.

The South Avenue Dick's, right?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

JIMMY CATALANO: I heard that it was a rough place.

EVELYN BAILEY: The Riverview?

JIMMY CATALANO: The Riverview I remember

that's where I saw my first lesbian get

smashed over the head with a beer bottle.

(laughter)

I had always heard these stories they had

the fights at The Riverview.

And Linda again took me there.

She said you just can't walk in there,

you've got to go in there with somebody that Lou knows.

Or they'll throw you right out or they'll kick your ass.

And so I went with Linda.

And I did, I watched this fight at the pool table

and watched this girl get a beer bottle smashed right

over her head.

(laughter)

After she got whacked with the pool cue.

(laughter)

KEVIN INDOVINO: Then they went home together that night.

JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, most likely.

You know, God went and called for the U-Haul

so they could move in together.

I'm sure that happened.

(laughter)

EVELYN BAILEY: It probably did.

It probably did.

Allen Street?

JIMMY CATALANO: Allen Street I remember as well.

I only went there a couple times.

I became very, very close friends via a roommate

with Louis Costanza and he and I clicked.

And I mean, we really, really clicked.

And we were like Lucy and Ethel.

And we would be out running around constantly getting

into all sorts of trouble.

It was Louis that also got me involved in the flower business

because he had had a flower shop.

He had opened a flower shop after we met in 1980

and I would go help him out.

In the afternoon I used to wait on tables out at The Wishing

Well on Chili Avenue.

And I was running the dining room floor.

I was their waiter in charge.

And I'd get a little hour and a half window in the afternoon

after the kitchen closed for lunch

and before it reopened for dinner.

And I would go home and kind of like, become one with the sofa

and wouldn't want to go back to work.

And Louis opened up the store.

So instead of going to the house,

I'd go to the flower shop.

And it started out I'd go to the flower shop

and he and I would smoke pot and I'd go back to work.

And then as he got busier, the pot smoking

became less and less.

And I'd go in and he'd have something made up and he'd say,

can you make me five of these before you go back to work?

I need them for a breakfast tomorrow

morning at The Changing Scene or whatever.

And little by little, it happened.

I mean, I knew color and I knew balance.

Neighbor ladies when I was in eighth grade

would hire me to help pick out paint, and arrange their living

room furniture, and help them pick out carpets and drapes.

But I never knew floral design and found the mechanics of it

quite fascinating and picked right up on it.

Before I knew it, I was making bridal bouquets,

and bridesmaids bouquets, and going out

and he'd send me out to set up the weddings because I

wasn't afraid of people.

I'd be very you know, I would direct them.

All right, here you sit the mother of the bride,

you sit the mother groom, let's do this, let's do this,

you go here, you go there.

So it just caught on.

KEVIN INDOVINO: As you said, you kind of

came out with a vengeance.

JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So I mean, talk to me

about that period of the late '70s, early '80s.

You know, what was the gay scene in Rochester?

JIMMY CATALANO: Oh my god, the gay scene in Rochester

was off the hook.

I mean you could basically have--

if you're talking about the sex end of it,

you could have sex anywhere.

I mean, it's just it was rampant.

Down at Durand, in the bookstores,

in the parking lots.

I remember literally walking home one day

in the early '80s from the LA Saloon.

I had lived on Lake Avenue near Seneca Parkway.

We lived right on Lake Avenue.

And I'd have guys circle the block

and follow me down the street.

Until they'd finally-- I'd get near one of the side streets

and they'd pull on the side street

and roll their window down and start chatting

and before you knew it, they'd be over at my house

we'd be having a blast.

And it just was there for the taking.

I mean, there wasn't even anything to think about.

The customers in the picked pick me up, busboys.

It was just like--

it was like it was falling out of the trees.

It was unbelievable.

And then the scare hit.

And it was, it was frightening.

I mean, nobody knew what was going on.

We just knew gay people were getting sick

and everybody withdrew.

And I mean I had straight friends with children

tell me you know, we like you a lot

but we just don't want you at our house anymore.

Because nobody knew what was going on.

And that was crushing.

I think it set us back easily decades

because we were getting so mainstreamed,

even back in the '70s.

The disco era was hot, the gay bar was the place to be,

the best music, the best party, the best people.

And AIDS just kind of decimated that whole atmosphere.

We became pariahs again, people were afraid of us,

people didn't even want to be within ten feet of us,

if we breathed on them they were afraid they

would catch something.

It was horrific.

And then of course the parade of funerals

is something I'll never forget and hope that I never

have to live through again.

Once we hit, I think it was maybe it really

started to hammer my friends in the late '80s, early '90s,

it was just one after another, after another, after another,

after another.

And it seems like that's all we did was bury people.

It was terrible.

It really, really was quite the experience, you know.

I tried not to be discriminatory especially

in the bar when everybody kind of calmed down and realized

look, we can't just crawl under the front porch.

I mean, you know.

And the bar started to pick up again.

I wasn't afraid to kiss somebody on the lips as a lot of people

were.

And I wasn't afraid to hug people.

And I figured, you know what?

If my friends are dying.

If I'm going to get it, I'm going to go down with them.

So I just always you know, kept a very positive attitude.

And I was as far as my sexual taste, I was very vanilla.

And I guess for those days, was fortunate that I

wasn't participating in the riskier behaviors.

And it's spared me because I probably

had I been a little bit more active anally,

I probably would not be here.

Because I'll be honest with you, it was the days you know,

you were a pig.

That's all there was to it.

It goes back to what we said a little while ago.

It was just there at your fingertips.

You didn't have to think about it.

You didn't have to work for it.

KEVIN INDOVINO: And from your point of view,

what do you think about the way Rochester kind of stepped

up and reacted to the AIDS crisis

and how we dealt with it?

JIMMY CATALANO: You know, Rochester

is an amazing community in all aspects.

In all aspects.

Because in '84 I started the flower shop.

They started the HPA dinners helping people with AIDS,

where you know, they'd go to the dinner parties

around the community and then they'd

have this big gathering at a central location.

And the first year was a little bit on the lower key side

but then it wound up being moved,

if I remember right, to Midtown.

And it was like if you weren't there, gay or straight,

you were nobody.

I mean, you were just like you know, what's wrong with you?

Why aren't you attending this event?

Just thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands

of people there.

And it made your heart explode to know that yes, there's

a ton of gay people here really supporting this cause.

But there's also a ton of straight people

here that are intermingling, and showing that they're not

afraid, and that we're going to work on this together,

and we're going to do what we can to get through it,

and help people.

And one of my neighbors on Park Avenue

who at that time in the '80s I had not met,

she would go and feed these poor guys

that were dying alone because nobody would go and help them.

She'd go and feed them and give them little you know,

clean their faces with a sponge and help them change bed sheets

and do whatever she can.

And she's just an absolute miracle

for that time and place.

And so you know, it's the makeup of Rochester.

We're a big small town that everybody I think is connected.

I mean look at what I just--

with Ann.

Just waiting for you and finding out

that she and I have been connected

in one way or another.

We both went to the same school, I graduated with her brother,

and we knew teachers together, knew neighborhoods,

knew different--

it's the way Rochester works.

That's why I'll never leave here, never.

It's been good to me.

It's been good business wise, it's been good socially.

You know, I feel like I can walk into a business

and know somebody or run into somebody.

And that's I think a very comfortable feeling.

When my parents got sick, you know,

I'd be in the emergency department with my mom.

And a doctor that was one of my flower customers

would come around the corner, oh my god what are you doing here?

You know, it's just nice to know that you know somebody

and that's what it's all about here.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you remember who--

I think there were three people who began HPA.

JIMMY CATALANO: Tony Green.

EVELYN BAILEY: Dan Meyers?

JIMMY CATALANO: I think Danny was definitely involved.

EVELYN BAILEY: And Jerry Algozer?

JIMMY CATALANO: Yes, if I remember correctly.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

JIMMY CATALANO: But Tony Green was my connection to the group.

He and I were close.

And you know, Tony had a zest for life

that was just unmatchable and he kept that until the very end.

Larry Kohn who was a bartender at Friar's,

and I went to see Tony when he was in the hospital

when it was towards the end.

And you know, we had a great visit.

I had everybody laughing and joking and carrying on

and we had a blast.

And I walked out of that room and literally just fell

to pieces out in the hallway at Highland Hospital.

Because it was just--

it was like, how could this happen to him?

You know?

Here, that's all he did once AIDS hit

and it took Jesse Vulo who owned Friar's

that Tony worked for, he was like the first death

in Rochester that we remember.

Tony just went into it hook, line, and sinker.

I mean, that's all he thought about was people with AIDS

and how to help them, and what to do for them,

and finding out what's going on, and getting

rid of this disease.

And you know, to see him disintegrate from it,

it was just heart wrenching.

EVELYN BAILEY: Who did the decorations

for the first Midtown event?

JIMMY CATALANO: I helped.

There was a '50s themed party and Neil--

oh god, it just went right out of my head.

Neil, handsome, handsome man, he was the display director

for Midtown Plaza.

He had been at Sibley's for a number of years,

was Forman's for a number of years.

Parisella.

Neil Parisella was the inspiration and the set

decorator for that event.

And the one I remember, it was a '50s theme, and I helped.

There was a bunch of us gay guys, floral designers,

we met at Stanley's Florist on Park Avenue in their back room

and made arrangements from nothing for this event.

Stuff that these guys went out to the woods

and chopped down branches and sumac and all this stuff.

And we had some greens, and some Fuji

mums that somebody donated, and all these branches that they

chopped out of the woods.

And we put these floral arrangements together.

And then the next big one that I remember

was the cruise ship that Neil made

with foamcore and the little Styrofoam popcorns.

That was just unbelievable.

It was just crazy.

And that's the one, I think Bruce was with me at that one,

he and I had met at that point.

And he was blown away.

My life partner was engaged and we met.

And that was the end of the engagement.

And literally we met on September 20th,

and Dining for Dollars was the following weekend.

And he came with me and I dragged him all around midtown.

He was a little overwhelmed because of course, you

know our hello is not a handshake,

its a hug and a kiss.

And you know, after going and saying hello

with a hug and a kiss to hundreds,

I did get dragged by the elbow off to the side.

And he's like, have you slept with all these people?

And I just laughed in his face.

I said, no why would you think that?

And he said, well, you're kissing everybody.

It's like oh my god, I never thought about it.

I said, that's how we say hello.

(laughter)

EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, Jimmy.

JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah you know, that's--

Bruce missed my Carmen Miranda life.

And she introduced me to a ton of people.

She really did introduce me for that brief few years,

four years, five years.

EVELYN BAILEY: You became infamous in that time.

JIMMY CATALANO: I did.

I mean, and it started out as a joke.

It was the best part of it.

Friar's had a party--

I can't even remember what the name of it was.

Might have been Bungle in the Jungle.

It was Bungle in the Jungle.

And I put together a fruit headdress

and went out as Carmen Miranda.

And it just stuck.

And then I refined the outfit a little bit more

for that following-- that was a summer party.

I refined the outfit a little bit more

for Halloween when Jim's used to do their big Halloween party

and the Miss Rochester pageant.

And the following year, David Bovenzi who was Esther Hoffman,

was putting the pageant together.

And said, I'd like you to MC it.

We've never had an MC The DJ just always

barked out the names and I think I'd like an MC.

And it's like, I can do that.

And she took off.

KEVIN INDOVINO: What years are we talking about?

JIMMY CATALANO: '81 to '85, maybe '84.

I opened up the store in '85 and I just kind of like,

tucked a lot of that stuff away.

And she ran her course.

She definitely ran her course.

I did make another appearance as Carmen Miranda in 1990.

Irish Shear and Richard Moore and Bill Valenti

put on a huge show at the convention center

called That's What Friends Are For.

And they brought in Holly Brown who was a national drag

performer at that point.

And they asked me to MC it and I couldn't say no to them.

They were friends.

And it was, for me, the opportunity

to be in front of 1,000 people too.

I had I think the biggest crowd I ever

was in front of was 500 or 600.

Five I know for sure.

EVELYN BAILEY: Now, when did--

in '81 when you were Carmen, that

wasn't the first drag show in Rochester?

JIMMY CATALANO: Oh, no.

No.

There had been drag shows.

I mean, you know, I started--

Bernie or Randy--

Bernie Brown was the first queen I saw crowned Miss Rochester.

And I think he was Miss Rochester '79, maybe.

Those pageants were unbelievable.

There'd be 30 queens competing.

But what I found out is that Miss Rochester started eons

before I ever set foot and saw my first, not even pageant,

but the first drag show started at the Labor Lyceum

on St. Paul's Street.

And they used a Clorox bottle for a crown.

Somebody cut--

(laughter)

--they cut up a Clorox bottle and sprayed it gold

and glued some plastic jewels to it.

And that's what they used to crown the queen's with.

And that was at the Lyceum?

JIMMY CATALANO: The Labor Lyceum and it

was on St. Paul's Street.

That's where they used to do the pageants.

KEVIN INDOVINO: That was one of the old theaters

they tore down, right?

JIMMY CATALANO: I don't think it's there.

I haven't been down there in ages

and I don't think it's there any longer.

EVELYN BAILEY: No, it's no longer there.

KEVIN INDOVINO: The Lyceum was an old vaudeville theater

that they tore down.

EVELYN BAILEY: And so, Bernie Brown was the first?

JIMMY CATALANO: That I saw crowned.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

JIMMY CATALANO: That was the first pageant.

EVELYN BAILEY: That you saw?

JIMMY CATALANO: Mm-hm.

And I think, if I remember right Evelyn,

Randy Munger was the reigning queen.

I'm a little gray there.

If it was Randy, Bernie, then David Bovenzi, or Bernie,

Randy, and David Bovenzi.

But I remember Randy definitely being Miss Rochester.

But there would be thirty queens competing.

And they'd come from Buffalo and they'd come from Syracuse

to compete for the crown.

And it would be brutal because they'd be lined up backstage

and they'd call up one of the queens from Syracuse

and one of the Rochester queens.

As she'd go to make her entrance out on the stage,

they'd hook a hanger in her hair so she'd

come out with this big hair and a hanger hanging out of it.

They'd burn dresses, they'd put dresses in the toilet,

I mean they'd get called out to the stage

and as they'd start walking, they'd yank their wigs off

so they couldn't do their walk on.

It was bad, it was really bad.

And then they would whittle it down to a top ten.

And God forbid if your favorite didn't make top ten.

I mean, there'd be near riots.

There was one year with Rondretta and Nicole

that they didn't make top ten and they stormed off the stage.

They used to display the trophies out

on the center stage at the Harro East which was the Triangle

Theater at that point.

And I remember Nicole and Rondretta

walking across the stage, grabbing the winner's trophy,

raising it up in the air, and then walking down

the steps in front of a performer, somebody performing

their talent number right in front of them.

Walked right by him.

Spitting on the judges, they had to call security in.

One year to escort the judges out because it got so bad.

(laughter)

EVELYN BAILEY: Now, the Triangle Theater was Harro East.

Do you recall where it might have been before Harro East?

JIMMY CATALANO: I only know the Harrow East was the Triangle.

And that's all.

I know it as the Triangle and then the Harrow.

Because when I did--

Carmen Miranda produced two huge shows

and they were both at the Triangle.

And they were in '81, 1982.

That's why I know we had 500 people because we sold tickets.

EVELYN BAILEY: After Harrow East,

it went to the convention center?

No.

JIMMY CATALANO: The pageant did spend--

the pageant has bounced around.

It's been at the convention center in the late '80s,

it has been at a Holiday Inn downtown,

it's been at the Hyatt, it's been at Heaven,

and then most recently this past run consecutively

has been at Harrow East.

And that just feels like home for that damn pageant.

It really, really does.

I don't know, maybe because my first one was there.

It's the stage and it's just I don't know,

it's a little bit more of a relaxed ambiance.

And it just seems like the right place to host it.

EVELYN BAILEY: Now Heaven was on Liberty Pole Way.

JIMMY CATALANO: It was on Liberty Pole

Way in the old Baptist temple building.

EVELYN BAILEY: And the Pentagon, that was a bar also?

JIMMY CATALANO: On St. Paul Street, that was one of Tim's--

if I remember right, that was one of Tim's bars.

EVELYN BAILEY: Before '81, or when you came out,

did you know many of the queen's?

JIMMY CATALANO: No, no, I had not.

My first drag show was-- you know, back then,

there wasn't a drag show every three days like there is now.

140 Alex has one on Thursday and on Sunday, and this one's here,

and this one's there.

They were events.

I mean, they would happen maybe every four months,

every six months.

And they really made them events.

Jim's used to do Christmas in July

and the place would be packed.

I mean, to the point probably of violations, fire department

violations.

But I mean, it would be on a Sunday night

and the place would be mobbed.

And it would be from 9:30 till 2:30 in the morning.

And they would do this drag show.

And my first drag show Freddy Bass was in it,

Ricky Love was in it and he was amazing

because he did not look like a drag queen.

Those were the days that they were still

with the big hair, and the very exaggerated movements.

And Ricky Love was just like somebody

that you'd see at a wedding, dressed up, smoothed

out hair, nothing big, nothing.

But he was in it.

And Nicole, Darryl Farnsworth was Nicole, he was in it.

Willy Irig was Dolly Parton, he was in it.

And can't remember who else.

Those are the ones I remember the most,

but there was probably six queens that were performing.

EVELYN BAILEY: Is there a place where or is there someone who

has kind of kept the history?

JIMMY CATALANO: Boy, that's a real good question

and I would probably tell you that we probably have just

kept our own histories.

As far as anything documented, I don't

know if there is anything.

I sure haven't ever heard of it if there is something.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Doubt it.

Like you said, I think they've each

kept their own individual portfolios and collections.

Pictures?

JIMMY CATALANO: I have some predominantly of my own shows

and stuff.

But I have some that are tucked away.

EVELYN BAILEY: Have the Miss Rochester's been videotaped?

JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, pretty much annually.

I don't know.

I can't tell you they've been doing it recently.

But we went through quite the stretch

when videotape became popular that they've been videotaped.

I'm going to tell you since the early '80s.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So, who?

Was there like a main organization or a main person

who kind of produced the Miss Rochester

pageants from year to year?

JIMMY CATALANO: It was Jim's.

It was the bar.

It was a cash cow for them.

I mean is really what it was.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Where did those videotapes wind up?

JIMMY CATALANO: Don't forget, it was the Halloween party.

So, they kind of piggy backed the Miss Rochester--

I mean, because everybody would show up in costume.

Virtually everybody.

And you know, and the pageant was just

part of this Halloween party.

KEVIN INDOVINO: But even today, like the last one

at the Harrow East, who produced it?

JIMMY CATALANO: All right, now there this is a group.

Beck and Rondretta. won the title of Miss Rochester well

it had to be like mid '80s.

'84 maybe?

He was smart.

I don't know if he was smart.

He was slick.

He went downtown and registered the pageant the Miss Rochester

pageant as a legal title and business

and literally took the pageant away from the bar.

And he formed a group called M.L.--

No, I take that back.

He had Pioro Productions.

And he ran the pageant with Tommy Catone

and Rob Fox who were a-list gays back in the day.

And then Ronnie passed.

And he willed the pageant to Marcella, Liza, Tori, and Vicki

also known as Michael D. And they formed

and MLTV Productions and they ran the pageant

for a number of years consecutively.

EVELYN BAILEY: Marcella.

JIMMY CATALANO: Marcella, Liza Tori and Vicki.

So you had Joey Guagliardo, and Wayne Esposito, Jimmy Sands,

and Michael D. And then maybe three years ago,

Jimmy Sands and Marcella, the M and the T, pulled out.

Because my life partner Bruce and I went--

we tried to have a meeting with them

and they wound up fighting amongst each other

before the meeting even started over what kind of money

they wanted and all that.

And Aggy Dune and myself, and then Liza wanted to stay on,

and Michael D I guess was on the fence.

He didn't know what he wanted to do with it.

But we were going to buy their shares, their interest in it

out.

And so it would have been Aggy Dune, and Liza, and me.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

JIMMY CATALANO: But I--

that just never came to fruition.

That meeting went to shit and I never

got another phone call again about another meeting.

And the way I looked at it is if it's

meant to be, it's meant to be.

I'm not going to pursue it.

I'm not going to go claw at their doors

if they're having second thoughts.

It's their baby.

You know what I mean?

It's sentimental maybe because of Ronnie and all that.

So I just let it go.

And now Aggy Dune, and Liza, and Michael D.

EVELYN BAILEY: So Michael stayed on?

JIMMY CATALANO: Michael stayed on.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So Michael may be a person who

knows where old videotapes are?

JIMMY CATALANO: Liza is who I think I would

tell you to talk to first.

I have maybe one or two tapes from the '80s.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I have a question if you don't have one

immediately.

EVELYN BAILEY: Go ahead.

KEVIN INDOVINO: From your point of view

in your experience with the drag queen community,

in your opinion, why do you think

that became so aligned with the gay community?

JIMMY CATALANO: The glamour, the fashion, the transformation,

and I think our fascination with celebrity.

I really think that that's what drives the popularity.

I think that's what makes the performers want to do it.

I can tell you that I got the most tremendous rush

being out on the stage.

And you can't see anybody because you're

blinded by the spotlights.

I mean, you can glimpse a few people here and there.

But when they are screaming to the point

where you can't hear the music that you're lip syncing to,

I can't explain to you what that does to you inside.

And for a lot of us who are picked on, who are bullied,

who are introverted, who have some kind of hang up,

because in a lot of cases gay people

have major issues because we don't