Audio Interview, Jimmy Catalano, May 17, 2012

  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK, we're here with Jimmy Catalano who
  • is currently--
  • he's a florist and he's working at Kittelberger's.
  • But had his own florist shop and has
  • been a member of the community for many years.
  • Had his own florist shop on Park Avenue at Edgerton Florists.
  • And I think prior to that you were where?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I was in a bunch of different locations.
  • I started out of my home in the Edgerton neighborhood
  • which is where the name comes from.
  • That was on Lorimer Street.
  • And then my first shop after the business started taking off,
  • I opened up a storefront on Lake Avenue at the corner of Ravine.
  • And then moved from there because it really
  • started taking off.
  • We went to Lake Avenue at Lexington.
  • And then the neighborhood started to sour.
  • And my little, frightened Pittsford ladies
  • were frightened coming to Lake Avenue.
  • So we moved out to Irondequoit, Portland Avenue and Ridge East.
  • And then our landlord leased over our lease to Rite Aid.
  • And I moved to Park Avenue and spent the last eleven
  • years of my twenty-six years in business on Park Avenue.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: So that was wonderful.
  • We've been living on Park Avenue for eighteen years.
  • So it was nice.
  • We got immediately involved in the neighborhood
  • when we moved there.
  • And then when I opened up the store there,
  • I immediately became involved in the Merchant's Association.
  • So in essence I still run the Merchant's Association.
  • And my partner and I run the Neighborhood Association.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Good for you.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: It's a great, great area.
  • Great neighborhood.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I don't remember where on Park Avenue you were.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I'm on Park Avenue.
  • Well the shop was between Rowley and Meigs.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: And I was in two separate buildings.
  • The front showroom was right on the street edge.
  • And then there was a detached building
  • in the rear that was the workshop.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I remember being down on Lake Avenue
  • but I don't remember it on Park.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah.
  • A little tuck away.
  • I mean, the store front showroom was probably
  • as big as this room.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now, were you born in Rochester?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Born and raised in Dutchtown in the Jay
  • and Glide Maple Street area.
  • And then in '65 the expressway came
  • through-- the 490 expressway came through
  • and took our house.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, wow.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: And we moved out to Gates
  • with the rest of the Italians that were in that neighborhood.
  • And then when I turned nineteen, I came back to the city
  • and my |first apartment was on Avery Street at Lyle Avenue.
  • And I've just always stayed in the city.
  • The 10th Ward, lived in the 10th Ward for a number of years.
  • I loved it there because you could
  • live in a mansion for next to nothing.
  • The rents were so reasonable.
  • And as much as I wanted to live on Park Avenue,
  • it just really wasn't affordable.
  • Even with roommates it just wasn't affordable.
  • And then when I met Bruce I had purchased
  • a home in the 10th Ward.
  • But he had to buy a home.
  • He was making really good money and he had to buy something.
  • We met in September and my house purchase
  • was in process at that point.
  • And if I remember right, I closed in December
  • just before Christmas.
  • And we met that September of '91.
  • And then stayed in the house on Pierpont Street for two years
  • and then bought Park Avenue.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: We've been there now.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Where on Pierpont?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Number 100 between Sealy Terrace
  • and Driving Park.
  • Right at the start of the street.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, up there.
  • Because I live on Raines.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: OK.
  • It's the rowhouse that's right the minute you come down
  • Pierpont Street from Driving Park,
  • it's that three unit rowhouse.
  • And I was the center unit.
  • Nine room townhouse, I loved that place.
  • I just loved it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: But we had to grow, so--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now, when did you come out?
  • I mean--
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I was a late bloomer.
  • It's funny because I was telling Ann
  • that I started being active when I was thirteen I was
  • kind of the neighborhood slut.
  • I was the one that started all the tent
  • parties and that kind of thing that we do when we're teens.
  • And I was very, very active with a lot of the sports teams
  • in school.
  • Of course, behind closed doors and under carpets and God
  • knows where else.
  • And nobody will ever to this day admit it,
  • but I definitely took care of a lot of the guys
  • that were involved in the sports at Gates-Chili High School.
  • But didn't really come out.
  • I was probably twenty-two or twenty-three,
  • I had lived in this apartment building on Avery Street.
  • It was nine apartments in this building on the corner of Avery
  • and Lyle.
  • And it was people that I worked with were there, living there.
  • And it was friends of friends, you know.
  • I had a friend that was living there.
  • A friend of theirs wanted an apartment there.
  • It was just one of those things.
  • It was like living in a dorm.
  • And they were all straight.
  • What goes through your head is am I going to have friends?
  • Are these people going to talk to me?
  • You know, I'm not going to be able to hang out with anybody.
  • And I'm very social.
  • I'm very socially active.
  • So, I did a lot of late night slip out
  • of the apartment kind of a thing and go sneaking around.
  • And a girl had moved into one of the apartments
  • across the hall from me who was gay.
  • And she knew that I was.
  • I mean, she pegged me immediately.
  • And she kept pushing for me to go to Jim's.
  • And I had been by Jim's countless times.
  • And I would just drive by it.
  • Constantly just circle and circle
  • and circle and circle and just not have the guts to go in it.
  • And she just said we're going to go out to Jim's.
  • I think you'll like it, you'll have fun, it's a great place.
  • And you know, it's the push I needed
  • to get me through the door.
  • And you couldn't keep me out of there once I got in.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you remember about what year that was?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I'm going to tell you
  • it would have been '78, '77, '78.
  • Right in through there easily.
  • Because I was working as a waiter at the Wishing Well
  • at that point.
  • And a husband and wife team owned it and their four adult
  • children helped run it.
  • And we were all the same age.
  • And they were very comfortable with gay people.
  • They had a lot of gay friends and they
  • made me feel comfortable in my own skin
  • that gay people are OK.
  • It's not a big deal.
  • We don't care and they definitely
  • facilitated in my coming out and being comfortable with it.
  • To the point where as far as whoever
  • was at the apartment building, I really
  • didn't even give a shit whether they knew or not.
  • I started hanging out with gay people
  • and then wound up with gay roommates moved out
  • of the building and all that stuff.
  • But I came out, and I came out with a vengeance.
  • (laughter)
  • I made up for a lot of lost time.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to talk or share with me that first
  • experience of walking into Jim's.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: It was magical, KEVIN INDOVINO.
  • The lights, the music.
  • And it's funny that Donna Summer passed away today
  • because the first song I remember was Spring Affair.
  • And just the thumping of the music,
  • and the melody in her voice.
  • And you know, the days at Jim's, they had all those lights going
  • around the dance floor that said you know, orgasm and pulse.
  • And I can't remember a lot of the words that
  • were up there but to me it was fascinating.
  • And the people were just so into the party with tambourines
  • and castanets and the flaggers were there you know,
  • with the fabric and the weighted fabric.
  • And Tony Green, I remember him like
  • it was yesterday with his tambourine.
  • And the amazing dancing, almost choreographed dancing,
  • between these gay guys was just--
  • it really, really was magical.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Did it give you--
  • was it your first sense of this is where I belong?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I can't tell you that I remember
  • saying this is where I belong.
  • But I do remember saying this isn't bad.
  • There's nothing wrong with me being here.
  • And I can come here now on my own
  • and I don't have to be afraid.
  • And you know, your first few trips there
  • where you don't really know anybody
  • I remember being a little--
  • I don't know if I would say frightening, but maybe
  • intimidating because you know you just don't know anybody.
  • So you just kind of wind up standing there and just
  • watching and observing and stuff like that.
  • But people really, really were very, very friendly.
  • And the fact that I was there with this girl that
  • lived across from me was Linda, the fact
  • that I was there with Linda, she knew a few people.
  • And this girl Sandy Marino that she was seeing kind of
  • was out there.
  • She kind of knew a lot of people.
  • And so I quickly got to meet people.
  • And even if I didn't talk to them when I'd go back,
  • they were a familiar face, made me feel very comfortable.
  • I could say hello to them, they recognized me,
  • they'd say hello to me.
  • Made a big, big difference.
  • It really made a big difference.
  • And then you know, I just I started gathering friends very,
  • very quickly.
  • And it just exploded from there.
  • Those were the days too that, if I remember right,
  • we had like thirteen gay bars in the city.
  • There was Jim's, and Friar's, and The Avenue Pub of course,
  • The Forum was going, LA Saloon was going.
  • People used to go to Bulwinkle's then at that time.
  • What the hell else were there?
  • There was just so many bars and then back streets opened.
  • That was a while after though in the '80s they opened up.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: The Rathskeller?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Rathskeller, yeah, on Elm Street.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Red Fez?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I don't remember that one.
  • I remember I'll tell you there was the Red Fox, wasn't there?
  • Didn't Jesse vulo have The Red Fox before Friar's?
  • And I knew that was gay.
  • And that was another bar I would drive around and drive around
  • but would be too scared to go in.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: What was the LA saloon?
  • It's the first I've heard of it.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: LA Saloon, Freddie Brown
  • owned The LA Saloon.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: On Lake Avenue?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: It was on Lake Avenue,
  • right at the start of Lake Avenue.
  • I think it's a restaurant now.
  • Maybe like a dog, like a Marx Texas Hots number
  • two or something like that.
  • It's down from Spiro's, Tip-top is.
  • It's like between State and there's a Tip-top Restaurant
  • which was between State and Ambrose Streets,
  • across from the Old Judge's Ford.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Dick's 43.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I remember Dick's 43
  • but I never went in there.
  • I heard that was a rough place though.
  • The South Avenue Dick's, right?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I heard that it was a rough place.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: The Riverview?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: The Riverview I remember
  • that's where I saw my first lesbian get
  • smashed over the head with a beer bottle.
  • (laughter)
  • I had always heard these stories they had
  • the fights at The Riverview.
  • And Linda again took me there.
  • She said you just can't walk in there,
  • you've got to go in there with somebody that Lou knows.
  • Or they'll throw you right out or they'll kick your ass.
  • And so I went with Linda.
  • And I did, I watched this fight at the pool table
  • and watched this girl get a beer bottle smashed right
  • over her head.
  • (laughter)
  • After she got whacked with the pool cue.
  • (laughter)
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Then they went home together that night.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, most likely.
  • You know, God went and called for the U-Haul
  • so they could move in together.
  • I'm sure that happened.
  • (laughter)
  • EVELYN BAILEY: It probably did.
  • It probably did.
  • Allen Street?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Allen Street I remember as well.
  • I only went there a couple times.
  • I became very, very close friends via a roommate
  • with Louis Costanza and he and I clicked.
  • And I mean, we really, really clicked.
  • And we were like Lucy and Ethel.
  • And we would be out running around constantly getting
  • into all sorts of trouble.
  • It was Louis that also got me involved in the flower business
  • because he had had a flower shop.
  • He had opened a flower shop after we met in 1980
  • and I would go help him out.
  • In the afternoon I used to wait on tables out at The Wishing
  • Well on Chili Avenue.
  • And I was running the dining room floor.
  • I was their waiter in charge.
  • And I'd get a little hour and a half window in the afternoon
  • after the kitchen closed for lunch
  • and before it reopened for dinner.
  • And I would go home and kind of like, become one with the sofa
  • and wouldn't want to go back to work.
  • And Louis opened up the store.
  • So instead of going to the house,
  • I'd go to the flower shop.
  • And it started out I'd go to the flower shop
  • and he and I would smoke pot and I'd go back to work.
  • And then as he got busier, the pot smoking
  • became less and less.
  • And I'd go in and he'd have something made up and he'd say,
  • can you make me five of these before you go back to work?
  • I need them for a breakfast tomorrow
  • morning at The Changing Scene or whatever.
  • And little by little, it happened.
  • I mean, I knew color and I knew balance.
  • Neighbor ladies when I was in eighth grade
  • would hire me to help pick out paint, and arrange their living
  • room furniture, and help them pick out carpets and drapes.
  • But I never knew floral design and found the mechanics of it
  • quite fascinating and picked right up on it.
  • Before I knew it, I was making bridal bouquets,
  • and bridesmaids bouquets, and going out
  • and he'd send me out to set up the weddings because I
  • wasn't afraid of people.
  • I'd be very you know, I would direct them.
  • All right, here you sit the mother of the bride,
  • you sit the mother groom, let's do this, let's do this,
  • you go here, you go there.
  • So it just caught on.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: As you said, you kind of
  • came out with a vengeance.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So I mean, talk to me
  • about that period of the late '70s, early '80s.
  • You know, what was the gay scene in Rochester?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Oh my god, the gay scene in Rochester
  • was off the hook.
  • I mean you could basically have--
  • if you're talking about the sex end of it,
  • you could have sex anywhere.
  • I mean, it's just it was rampant.
  • Down at Durand, in the bookstores,
  • in the parking lots.
  • I remember literally walking home one day
  • in the early '80s from the LA Saloon.
  • I had lived on Lake Avenue near Seneca Parkway.
  • We lived right on Lake Avenue.
  • And I'd have guys circle the block
  • and follow me down the street.
  • Until they'd finally-- I'd get near one of the side streets
  • and they'd pull on the side street
  • and roll their window down and start chatting
  • and before you knew it, they'd be over at my house
  • we'd be having a blast.
  • And it just was there for the taking.
  • I mean, there wasn't even anything to think about.
  • The customers in the picked pick me up, busboys.
  • It was just like--
  • it was like it was falling out of the trees.
  • It was unbelievable.
  • And then the scare hit.
  • And it was, it was frightening.
  • I mean, nobody knew what was going on.
  • We just knew gay people were getting sick
  • and everybody withdrew.
  • And I mean I had straight friends with children
  • tell me you know, we like you a lot
  • but we just don't want you at our house anymore.
  • Because nobody knew what was going on.
  • And that was crushing.
  • I think it set us back easily decades
  • because we were getting so mainstreamed,
  • even back in the '70s.
  • The disco era was hot, the gay bar was the place to be,
  • the best music, the best party, the best people.
  • And AIDS just kind of decimated that whole atmosphere.
  • We became pariahs again, people were afraid of us,
  • people didn't even want to be within ten feet of us,
  • if we breathed on them they were afraid they
  • would catch something.
  • It was horrific.
  • And then of course the parade of funerals
  • is something I'll never forget and hope that I never
  • have to live through again.
  • Once we hit, I think it was maybe it really
  • started to hammer my friends in the late '80s, early '90s,
  • it was just one after another, after another, after another,
  • after another.
  • And it seems like that's all we did was bury people.
  • It was terrible.
  • It really, really was quite the experience, you know.
  • I tried not to be discriminatory especially
  • in the bar when everybody kind of calmed down and realized
  • look, we can't just crawl under the front porch.
  • I mean, you know.
  • And the bar started to pick up again.
  • I wasn't afraid to kiss somebody on the lips as a lot of people
  • were.
  • And I wasn't afraid to hug people.
  • And I figured, you know what?
  • If my friends are dying.
  • If I'm going to get it, I'm going to go down with them.
  • So I just always you know, kept a very positive attitude.
  • And I was as far as my sexual taste, I was very vanilla.
  • And I guess for those days, was fortunate that I
  • wasn't participating in the riskier behaviors.
  • And it's spared me because I probably
  • had I been a little bit more active anally,
  • I probably would not be here.
  • Because I'll be honest with you, it was the days you know,
  • you were a pig.
  • That's all there was to it.
  • It goes back to what we said a little while ago.
  • It was just there at your fingertips.
  • You didn't have to think about it.
  • You didn't have to work for it.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: And from your point of view,
  • what do you think about the way Rochester kind of stepped
  • up and reacted to the AIDS crisis
  • and how we dealt with it?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: You know, Rochester
  • is an amazing community in all aspects.
  • In all aspects.
  • Because in '84 I started the flower shop.
  • They started the HPA dinners helping people with AIDS,
  • where you know, they'd go to the dinner parties
  • around the community and then they'd
  • have this big gathering at a central location.
  • And the first year was a little bit on the lower key side
  • but then it wound up being moved,
  • if I remember right, to Midtown.
  • And it was like if you weren't there, gay or straight,
  • you were nobody.
  • I mean, you were just like you know, what's wrong with you?
  • Why aren't you attending this event?
  • Just thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands
  • of people there.
  • And it made your heart explode to know that yes, there's
  • a ton of gay people here really supporting this cause.
  • But there's also a ton of straight people
  • here that are intermingling, and showing that they're not
  • afraid, and that we're going to work on this together,
  • and we're going to do what we can to get through it,
  • and help people.
  • And one of my neighbors on Park Avenue
  • who at that time in the '80s I had not met,
  • she would go and feed these poor guys
  • that were dying alone because nobody would go and help them.
  • She'd go and feed them and give them little you know,
  • clean their faces with a sponge and help them change bed sheets
  • and do whatever she can.
  • And she's just an absolute miracle
  • for that time and place.
  • And so you know, it's the makeup of Rochester.
  • We're a big small town that everybody I think is connected.
  • I mean look at what I just--
  • with Ann.
  • Just waiting for you and finding out
  • that she and I have been connected
  • in one way or another.
  • We both went to the same school, I graduated with her brother,
  • and we knew teachers together, knew neighborhoods,
  • knew different--
  • it's the way Rochester works.
  • That's why I'll never leave here, never.
  • It's been good to me.
  • It's been good business wise, it's been good socially.
  • You know, I feel like I can walk into a business
  • and know somebody or run into somebody.
  • And that's I think a very comfortable feeling.
  • When my parents got sick, you know,
  • I'd be in the emergency department with my mom.
  • And a doctor that was one of my flower customers
  • would come around the corner, oh my god what are you doing here?
  • You know, it's just nice to know that you know somebody
  • and that's what it's all about here.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do you remember who--
  • I think there were three people who began HPA.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Tony Green.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Dan Meyers?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I think Danny was definitely involved.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And Jerry Algozer?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Yes, if I remember correctly.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: But Tony Green was my connection to the group.
  • He and I were close.
  • And you know, Tony had a zest for life
  • that was just unmatchable and he kept that until the very end.
  • Larry Kohn who was a bartender at Friar's,
  • and I went to see Tony when he was in the hospital
  • when it was towards the end.
  • And you know, we had a great visit.
  • I had everybody laughing and joking and carrying on
  • and we had a blast.
  • And I walked out of that room and literally just fell
  • to pieces out in the hallway at Highland Hospital.
  • Because it was just--
  • it was like, how could this happen to him?
  • You know?
  • Here, that's all he did once AIDS hit
  • and it took Jesse Vulo who owned Friar's
  • that Tony worked for, he was like the first death
  • in Rochester that we remember.
  • Tony just went into it hook, line, and sinker.
  • I mean, that's all he thought about was people with AIDS
  • and how to help them, and what to do for them,
  • and finding out what's going on, and getting
  • rid of this disease.
  • And you know, to see him disintegrate from it,
  • it was just heart wrenching.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Who did the decorations
  • for the first Midtown event?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I helped.
  • There was a '50s themed party and Neil--
  • oh god, it just went right out of my head.
  • Neil, handsome, handsome man, he was the display director
  • for Midtown Plaza.
  • He had been at Sibley's for a number of years,
  • was Forman's for a number of years.
  • Parisella.
  • Neil Parisella was the inspiration and the set
  • decorator for that event.
  • And the one I remember, it was a '50s theme, and I helped.
  • There was a bunch of us gay guys, floral designers,
  • we met at Stanley's Florist on Park Avenue in their back room
  • and made arrangements from nothing for this event.
  • Stuff that these guys went out to the woods
  • and chopped down branches and sumac and all this stuff.
  • And we had some greens, and some Fuji
  • mums that somebody donated, and all these branches that they
  • chopped out of the woods.
  • And we put these floral arrangements together.
  • And then the next big one that I remember
  • was the cruise ship that Neil made
  • with foamcore and the little Styrofoam popcorns.
  • That was just unbelievable.
  • It was just crazy.
  • And that's the one, I think Bruce was with me at that one,
  • he and I had met at that point.
  • And he was blown away.
  • My life partner was engaged and we met.
  • And that was the end of the engagement.
  • And literally we met on September 20th,
  • and Dining for Dollars was the following weekend.
  • And he came with me and I dragged him all around midtown.
  • He was a little overwhelmed because of course, you
  • know our hello is not a handshake,
  • its a hug and a kiss.
  • And you know, after going and saying hello
  • with a hug and a kiss to hundreds,
  • I did get dragged by the elbow off to the side.
  • And he's like, have you slept with all these people?
  • And I just laughed in his face.
  • I said, no why would you think that?
  • And he said, well, you're kissing everybody.
  • It's like oh my god, I never thought about it.
  • I said, that's how we say hello.
  • (laughter)
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, Jimmy.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah you know, that's--
  • Bruce missed my Carmen Miranda life.
  • And she introduced me to a ton of people.
  • She really did introduce me for that brief few years,
  • four years, five years.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You became infamous in that time.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I did.
  • I mean, and it started out as a joke.
  • It was the best part of it.
  • Friar's had a party--
  • I can't even remember what the name of it was.
  • Might have been Bungle in the Jungle.
  • It was Bungle in the Jungle.
  • And I put together a fruit headdress
  • and went out as Carmen Miranda.
  • And it just stuck.
  • And then I refined the outfit a little bit more
  • for that following-- that was a summer party.
  • I refined the outfit a little bit more
  • for Halloween when Jim's used to do their big Halloween party
  • and the Miss Rochester pageant.
  • And the following year, David Bovenzi who was Esther Hoffman,
  • was putting the pageant together.
  • And said, I'd like you to MC it.
  • We've never had an MC The DJ just always
  • barked out the names and I think I'd like an MC.
  • And it's like, I can do that.
  • And she took off.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: What years are we talking about?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: '81 to '85, maybe '84.
  • I opened up the store in '85 and I just kind of like,
  • tucked a lot of that stuff away.
  • And she ran her course.
  • She definitely ran her course.
  • I did make another appearance as Carmen Miranda in 1990.
  • Irish Shear and Richard Moore and Bill Valenti
  • put on a huge show at the convention center
  • called That's What Friends Are For.
  • And they brought in Holly Brown who was a national drag
  • performer at that point.
  • And they asked me to MC it and I couldn't say no to them.
  • They were friends.
  • And it was, for me, the opportunity
  • to be in front of 1,000 people too.
  • I had I think the biggest crowd I ever
  • was in front of was 500 or 600.
  • Five I know for sure.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now, when did--
  • in '81 when you were Carmen, that
  • wasn't the first drag show in Rochester?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Oh, no.
  • No.
  • There had been drag shows.
  • I mean, you know, I started--
  • Bernie or Randy--
  • Bernie Brown was the first queen I saw crowned Miss Rochester.
  • And I think he was Miss Rochester '79, maybe.
  • Those pageants were unbelievable.
  • There'd be 30 queens competing.
  • But what I found out is that Miss Rochester started eons
  • before I ever set foot and saw my first, not even pageant,
  • but the first drag show started at the Labor Lyceum
  • on St. Paul's Street.
  • And they used a Clorox bottle for a crown.
  • Somebody cut--
  • (laughter)
  • --they cut up a Clorox bottle and sprayed it gold
  • and glued some plastic jewels to it.
  • And that's what they used to crown the queen's with.
  • And that was at the Lyceum?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: The Labor Lyceum and it
  • was on St. Paul's Street.
  • That's where they used to do the pageants.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: That was one of the old theaters
  • they tore down, right?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I don't think it's there.
  • I haven't been down there in ages
  • and I don't think it's there any longer.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: No, it's no longer there.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: The Lyceum was an old vaudeville theater
  • that they tore down.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And so, Bernie Brown was the first?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: That I saw crowned.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: That was the first pageant.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: That you saw?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Mm-hm.
  • And I think, if I remember right Evelyn,
  • Randy Munger was the reigning queen.
  • I'm a little gray there.
  • If it was Randy, Bernie, then David Bovenzi, or Bernie,
  • Randy, and David Bovenzi.
  • But I remember Randy definitely being Miss Rochester.
  • But there would be thirty queens competing.
  • And they'd come from Buffalo and they'd come from Syracuse
  • to compete for the crown.
  • And it would be brutal because they'd be lined up backstage
  • and they'd call up one of the queens from Syracuse
  • and one of the Rochester queens.
  • As she'd go to make her entrance out on the stage,
  • they'd hook a hanger in her hair so she'd
  • come out with this big hair and a hanger hanging out of it.
  • They'd burn dresses, they'd put dresses in the toilet,
  • I mean they'd get called out to the stage
  • and as they'd start walking, they'd yank their wigs off
  • so they couldn't do their walk on.
  • It was bad, it was really bad.
  • And then they would whittle it down to a top ten.
  • And God forbid if your favorite didn't make top ten.
  • I mean, there'd be near riots.
  • There was one year with Rondretta and Nicole
  • that they didn't make top ten and they stormed off the stage.
  • They used to display the trophies out
  • on the center stage at the Harro East which was the Triangle
  • Theater at that point.
  • And I remember Nicole and Rondretta
  • walking across the stage, grabbing the winner's trophy,
  • raising it up in the air, and then walking down
  • the steps in front of a performer, somebody performing
  • their talent number right in front of them.
  • Walked right by him.
  • Spitting on the judges, they had to call security in.
  • One year to escort the judges out because it got so bad.
  • (laughter)
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now, the Triangle Theater was Harro East.
  • Do you recall where it might have been before Harro East?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I only know the Harrow East was the Triangle.
  • And that's all.
  • I know it as the Triangle and then the Harrow.
  • Because when I did--
  • Carmen Miranda produced two huge shows
  • and they were both at the Triangle.
  • And they were in '81, 1982.
  • That's why I know we had 500 people because we sold tickets.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: After Harrow East,
  • it went to the convention center?
  • No.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: The pageant did spend--
  • the pageant has bounced around.
  • It's been at the convention center in the late '80s,
  • it has been at a Holiday Inn downtown,
  • it's been at the Hyatt, it's been at Heaven,
  • and then most recently this past run consecutively
  • has been at Harrow East.
  • And that just feels like home for that damn pageant.
  • It really, really does.
  • I don't know, maybe because my first one was there.
  • It's the stage and it's just I don't know,
  • it's a little bit more of a relaxed ambiance.
  • And it just seems like the right place to host it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now Heaven was on Liberty Pole Way.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: It was on Liberty Pole
  • Way in the old Baptist temple building.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And the Pentagon, that was a bar also?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: On St. Paul Street, that was one of Tim's--
  • if I remember right, that was one of Tim's bars.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Before '81, or when you came out,
  • did you know many of the queen's?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: No, no, I had not.
  • My first drag show was-- you know, back then,
  • there wasn't a drag show every three days like there is now.
  • 140 Alex has one on Thursday and on Sunday, and this one's here,
  • and this one's there.
  • They were events.
  • I mean, they would happen maybe every four months,
  • every six months.
  • And they really made them events.
  • Jim's used to do Christmas in July
  • and the place would be packed.
  • I mean, to the point probably of violations, fire department
  • violations.
  • But I mean, it would be on a Sunday night
  • and the place would be mobbed.
  • And it would be from 9:30 till 2:30 in the morning.
  • And they would do this drag show.
  • And my first drag show Freddy Bass was in it,
  • Ricky Love was in it and he was amazing
  • because he did not look like a drag queen.
  • Those were the days that they were still
  • with the big hair, and the very exaggerated movements.
  • And Ricky Love was just like somebody
  • that you'd see at a wedding, dressed up, smoothed
  • out hair, nothing big, nothing.
  • But he was in it.
  • And Nicole, Darryl Farnsworth was Nicole, he was in it.
  • Willy Irig was Dolly Parton, he was in it.
  • And can't remember who else.
  • Those are the ones I remember the most,
  • but there was probably six queens that were performing.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Is there a place where or is there someone who
  • has kind of kept the history?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Boy, that's a real good question
  • and I would probably tell you that we probably have just
  • kept our own histories.
  • As far as anything documented, I don't
  • know if there is anything.
  • I sure haven't ever heard of it if there is something.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Doubt it.
  • Like you said, I think they've each
  • kept their own individual portfolios and collections.
  • Pictures?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I have some predominantly of my own shows
  • and stuff.
  • But I have some that are tucked away.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Have the Miss Rochester's been videotaped?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, pretty much annually.
  • I don't know.
  • I can't tell you they've been doing it recently.
  • But we went through quite the stretch
  • when videotape became popular that they've been videotaped.
  • I'm going to tell you since the early '80s.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So, who?
  • Was there like a main organization or a main person
  • who kind of produced the Miss Rochester
  • pageants from year to year?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: It was Jim's.
  • It was the bar.
  • It was a cash cow for them.
  • I mean is really what it was.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Where did those videotapes wind up?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Don't forget, it was the Halloween party.
  • So, they kind of piggy backed the Miss Rochester--
  • I mean, because everybody would show up in costume.
  • Virtually everybody.
  • And you know, and the pageant was just
  • part of this Halloween party.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: But even today, like the last one
  • at the Harrow East, who produced it?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: All right, now there this is a group.
  • Beck and Rondretta. won the title of Miss Rochester well
  • it had to be like mid '80s.
  • '84 maybe?
  • He was smart.
  • I don't know if he was smart.
  • He was slick.
  • He went downtown and registered the pageant the Miss Rochester
  • pageant as a legal title and business
  • and literally took the pageant away from the bar.
  • And he formed a group called M.L.--
  • No, I take that back.
  • He had Pioro Productions.
  • And he ran the pageant with Tommy Catone
  • and Rob Fox who were a-list gays back in the day.
  • And then Ronnie passed.
  • And he willed the pageant to Marcella, Liza, Tori, and Vicki
  • also known as Michael D. And they formed
  • and MLTV Productions and they ran the pageant
  • for a number of years consecutively.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Marcella.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Marcella, Liza Tori and Vicki.
  • So you had Joey Guagliardo, and Wayne Esposito, Jimmy Sands,
  • and Michael D. And then maybe three years ago,
  • Jimmy Sands and Marcella, the M and the T, pulled out.
  • Because my life partner Bruce and I went--
  • we tried to have a meeting with them
  • and they wound up fighting amongst each other
  • before the meeting even started over what kind of money
  • they wanted and all that.
  • And Aggy Dune and myself, and then Liza wanted to stay on,
  • and Michael D I guess was on the fence.
  • He didn't know what he wanted to do with it.
  • But we were going to buy their shares, their interest in it
  • out.
  • And so it would have been Aggy Dune, and Liza, and me.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: But I--
  • that just never came to fruition.
  • That meeting went to shit and I never
  • got another phone call again about another meeting.
  • And the way I looked at it is if it's
  • meant to be, it's meant to be.
  • I'm not going to pursue it.
  • I'm not going to go claw at their doors
  • if they're having second thoughts.
  • It's their baby.
  • You know what I mean?
  • It's sentimental maybe because of Ronnie and all that.
  • So I just let it go.
  • And now Aggy Dune, and Liza, and Michael D.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So Michael stayed on?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Michael stayed on.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So Michael may be a person who
  • knows where old videotapes are?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Liza is who I think I would
  • tell you to talk to first.
  • I have maybe one or two tapes from the '80s.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I have a question if you don't have one
  • immediately.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Go ahead.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: From your point of view
  • in your experience with the drag queen community,
  • in your opinion, why do you think
  • that became so aligned with the gay community?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: The glamour, the fashion, the transformation,
  • and I think our fascination with celebrity.
  • I really think that that's what drives the popularity.
  • I think that's what makes the performers want to do it.
  • I can tell you that I got the most tremendous rush
  • being out on the stage.
  • And you can't see anybody because you're
  • blinded by the spotlights.
  • I mean, you can glimpse a few people here and there.
  • But when they are screaming to the point
  • where you can't hear the music that you're lip syncing to,
  • I can't explain to you what that does to you inside.
  • And for a lot of us who are picked on, who are bullied,
  • who are introverted, who have some kind of hang up,
  • because in a lot of cases gay people
  • have major issues because we don't
  • feel comfortable in our own skin sometime.
  • This could be the most tremendous outlet for you.
  • And I also feel that there are people that truly are talented.
  • And you know, instead of going to New York City
  • and beating the streets.
  • Or California and hoping to God you get discovered.
  • And you know, wait on tables or work at Wal-Mart
  • and as you're trying to get some sort of an entertainment gig,
  • this is your outlet to do that.
  • And through the years, the talent
  • that we've had in Rochester has really been tremendous.
  • I mean, we've got Ed Popiel, Akasha Davis,
  • we've got Aggy Dune.
  • I mean, they're amazing.
  • We've got Pandora, look what's happened with her.
  • We've got Darien Lake, she is tremendous.
  • We had Maya.
  • I mean, it's just the talent that
  • is in the impersonation community is really, really
  • unbelievable.
  • And they really do put their best foot forward.
  • I mean, they really come out.
  • They spend exorbitant amounts of money.
  • And in the day when I was involved in it,
  • that came out of your rent.
  • I mean, you'd make tips but thirty bucks.
  • Nothing like you know, the bars pay them now
  • and they go home with tons of money
  • that they pick up in tips.
  • It's a whole different ballgame.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, yeah.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: You know, but I've
  • seen people have their lights shut off
  • because they had to buy sequin fabric to make a dress.
  • (laughter)
  • I mean I've done the same thing.
  • I've held my rent for twelve days, fifteen days
  • so I could have money for shoes and lashes and stockings
  • and costumes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Talk to me a little bit
  • about the experience of being a drag queen in Rochester
  • and being known as that in the larger community.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I never took it too seriously, Evelyn.
  • I had a blast with that character that I portrayed
  • but I never really got involved outside of MC'ing the pageants,
  • I never had a desire to enter a pageant or to be Miss Rochester
  • or to claw my way to the top which I think some of them kind
  • of get caught up into it.
  • Or maybe it's just a natural part
  • of the evolution of the character
  • that you want to be better, you want to keep growing,
  • you want to be queen, you've got to be queen,
  • I have to be queen, I'm going to kill somebody
  • if I can't be queen.
  • And that never happened with me.
  • There was a lot of in fighting amongst the different queens
  • and a lot of back stabbing.
  • And I just always managed to stay out of that.
  • I was nice to everybody.
  • I was kind to everybody, I was considerate,
  • I was as helpful as I could possibly be,
  • and just always managed to kind of stay out of that.
  • You know again, it happened by accident.
  • It was probably to my desire to be an entertainer.
  • Like I said earlier, the rush from being up on that stage
  • and having people cheer for you was just unbelievable.
  • You know, that's just--
  • I don't regret it for a moment.
  • But for me, it definitely ran its course.
  • You know, every year Liza says or Michael D says,
  • you know, we got to bring out the old girls, honey.
  • And it's like you know, in theory it's cute.
  • But these kids aren't going to know
  • who the hell I am now anymore.
  • You know, I was just the emcee it's not like I had--
  • I had a following but it was just--
  • I'm not known for a particular song.
  • I mean, there's some of the queen's that it's
  • like, OK, Bernie Brown Last Dance is what he won with.
  • That's his song.
  • And this one had this song, and this one had this song.
  • And you know, Aggy Dune has songs
  • she does that people go crazy over and she's known for that.
  • And I don't.
  • So it's like, they're not going to know who the hell I am.
  • I have no interest in doing that.
  • (laughter)
  • EVELYN BAILEY: The phenomenon of drag king?
  • I mean, I don't remember early in Rochester that--
  • JIMMY CATALANO: That started at Allen Street.
  • You had mentioned Allen Street.
  • And that kind of started at Allen Street
  • when Darlene Esposito had that.
  • And it was just kind of a little here, a little there.
  • And then when forty Union closed and Chris Santoro opened it up
  • as Mother's, the drag kings really
  • started to be a little bit more presented to the population.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: They started having their own night there.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, yeah, it was like a Tuesday or something
  • like that, Kevin.
  • They would have drag king's night.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: And it was something
  • that really, I think, kind of came out
  • of what they were hearing out of like, the New York scene
  • or the San Francisco scene.
  • It was like, well you know they've got drag kings.
  • We need to start our own little local drag kings.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: And I mean, the little experience
  • I have with them, they're good.
  • I mean, at that point when they really started
  • in the '90s, really started to be a presence,
  • Bruce and I were together and my bar days just kind of--
  • we would go out on Saturday night,
  • we would go out every Saturday night
  • for the first maybe, four or five years of our relationship.
  • But then, once we moved to Park Avenue, it just dwindled.
  • You know, we sit out on our porch
  • and the party comes to us.
  • We don't have to go out anymore.
  • Seriously.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Well everybody knows your house.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: That's right.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: With no exaggeration
  • I mean, once we get into high summer season,
  • he cooks for eight people.
  • Because if we have dinner out there,
  • we wind up with a mob sitting out there with us.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: So, it's just never
  • been a need for us to go out now anymore.
  • So the drag kings kind of kind of came around.
  • And I know them and I've been entertained by them,
  • but I don't know them.
  • I don't even know if that's still
  • even a popular thing anymore.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I think they're still there
  • but it just kind of came and went.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: That the drag queens are really--
  • the queens are--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: They know how to put on a show.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: They do.
  • They do.
  • And again, I just think it goes back
  • to that glamour and our interest in celebrities.
  • Female celebrities especially.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: And that's why drag kings basically fell
  • because there's no glamour.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: There's really no glamour to it.
  • What I want to know, this is something
  • for like the science majors I guess,
  • is why we are attracted to the same celebrities?
  • Marilyn Monroe, Judy Garland, Barbara Streisand,
  • I mean it just-- it's Diana Ross.
  • It's funny how we just kind of fixate.
  • Because I remember being in second grade and I knew
  • I was different.
  • There was a kid named John, his parents
  • owned a hotel in Florida.
  • And he would come to school from April to June
  • and he used to sit-in front of me.
  • And he was so cute and I remember telling him
  • I was going to kiss him.
  • And he would bring me gifts every week,
  • stupid little trinkets, so that I wouldn't kiss him
  • in second grade.
  • But I remember watching Wizard of Oz
  • and just falling in love with Judy Garland.
  • And whenever she'd be on TV, a special or Ed Sullivan
  • or something, just being glued to the screen watching her.
  • And watching Barbra Streisand.
  • How does this happen?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I don't know.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: How do we as gay man just
  • get sucked in to the same, predominantly the same women?
  • There's something you've got to go study.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Right.
  • (laughter)
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I have a word for that, chemistry.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Chemistry or presence, there's
  • a certain presence that I think you pick up on.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: That we identify with in one way or another.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well they're also very authentic.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, and you know like nowadays too,
  • you get the likes of Bette Midler and Liza
  • that really play to a gay audience.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I want to take you back
  • not to the second grade, but to when you were growing up.
  • Was being gay, was homosexuality a topic?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: No, you were sissies then.
  • You were sissies.
  • I didn't know gay, I didn't know what a homosexual was,
  • but I knew what a sissy was.
  • And that's what gay guys were.
  • We're sissies.
  • And I mean, I really knew.
  • And my mother never confronted me nor did my father.
  • I was never athletic.
  • I played with girls predominantly, especially
  • as a younger kid when we moved out
  • and we moved to Gates I did wind up with male friends.
  • But again, never really the sports involved
  • or anything like that.
  • I mean, here is a kid in eighth grade going
  • to the neighbor lady down the street and around the corner
  • because I'm going to go help her pick out carpets and wallpaper
  • and arrange her living room furniture.
  • I mean, so you know, and again I didn't
  • have tons of issues with other kids
  • in the neighborhood about it.
  • When I was younger, when we lived in the city,
  • I remember because I wouldn't play baseball
  • or I wouldn't do this, I remember being called a sissy.
  • Oh, he's a sissy, he wouldn't play anyhow
  • so don't worry about it.
  • I used to play with the girl across the street
  • with her Barbies.
  • Only I always got stuck with Midge.
  • I could never be Barbie.
  • I always had to be freaking Midge.
  • I hated Midge.
  • I hated her hair.
  • And I always got the hand me downs that Barbie
  • didn't want to wear.
  • (laughter)
  • JIMMY CATALANO: But I mean, you knew.
  • You just-- you knew and you just kind of a kept a lid on it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: When you were driving around Jim's and--
  • JIMMY CATALANO: --and the Red Carpet.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --the Red Carpet.
  • Were there other ways in the city for a gay man or a lesbian
  • to connect outside of the house?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Not that I am-- then,
  • if there was something I sure wasn't aware of it.
  • Not like there is now.
  • I mean, the internet is like an unlimited pool of--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: But were you aware of things like the Gay
  • Alliance?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: No, no.
  • No.
  • I had no idea.
  • Again, once I met this neighbor across from me, this Linda.
  • She was a vault of information.
  • Our birthdays were a day apart, she was a few years older
  • than I, but again in this apartment building
  • I was living in was kind of turning over.
  • A lot of the friends of the friends of the friends
  • were moving out, and I was kind of bringing
  • some gay people in that I would meet that you know were looking
  • for apartments and stuff.
  • And then Linda was living there and she was my educator
  • as far as telling me there is an association, this Gay Alliance,
  • and that kind of thing.
  • But in all honesty, I never used the facility.
  • I just never felt there was a need to use the facility.
  • And I don't know back then, Kevin
  • even if I knew it was here.
  • It's just scary.
  • I mean, the kids now and I'm not speaking of course
  • from experience, but only from observing.
  • They're a lot more comfortable than I might have been.
  • Or a lot more comfortable than the generation before me
  • might have been.
  • We just buried one of our neighbors
  • who was an adult in the '50s.
  • And did the marriage thing, did the three kids,
  • did the whole thing, and did that whole game.
  • And you know, did wind up leaving his wife
  • when the kids were infants.
  • And you know, did the gay thing.
  • But it was always behind a closed door
  • or these little gatherings at somebody's home.
  • And you know, they were just-- a lot of times
  • they would go to the bars but from what he tells me,
  • it's nothing like the bar life I experienced
  • or maybe what the bar life is now.
  • So I think you know as each generation moves into it
  • and we're accepted more and--
  • I hate the word accepted.
  • We're mainstreamed more.
  • I mean look at what, two gay bars, three gay, two gay bars
  • that we have now because there's really
  • not a need for them anymore.
  • And the gay bars we have are predominantly
  • filled with straight people, with the exception
  • of The Pub and The Forum.
  • You go to Tilt it's straight.
  • Because it's a great place to be.
  • It's a fun place to be.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Nice place to dance.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Same thing, the music is great.
  • The lights, the atmosphere, the ambiance.
  • Here we go again.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: That happened to a lot of the gay clubs,
  • I noticed that like in the '90s, like once the straight people
  • found it, we were out of there.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: We were out of there.
  • The only place that worked was mixed was Carpe Diem.
  • That place was amazing.
  • And that, I think happened totally by accident
  • because there was an interim where there was no Dance
  • Palace for us to go to.
  • There was it's that window that there was nothing before Joey
  • opened Marcelo's.
  • And I think that just kind of happened out of necessity
  • that we just started wandering in there
  • and filtering in there.
  • I mean because when Bruce and I would go,
  • it was predominately straight.
  • It just seemed like every week, we
  • used to go with his college friends and stuff.
  • And it seemed like every week it was gayer
  • and gayer and gayer and gayer and nobody gave a shit.
  • And I loved that about that club.
  • I really, really loved that about that.
  • To me it just felt so metropolitan.
  • And it's like finally, Rochester has gotten it.
  • That we can do this.
  • You don't have to have a gay bar and you don't
  • have to have a straight bar.
  • Is it nice to have the two?
  • Of course it is.
  • It's nice to go into a gay bar and know that, all right,
  • this guy is attractive.
  • He's in a gay bar.
  • I can go talk to him and with the hopes of dragging him home,
  • you know?
  • But I just I don't think that they're necessary anymore.
  • I think they'll be nice to keep around just because we're
  • the best partiers.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I think it'll just go in cycles.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, probably quite right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • I don't see them disappearing.
  • Because the next generation coming along
  • is always going to be coming out.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: You'll need that haven.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And that process.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: You'll need that little haven.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Especially, not only coming out,
  • but as they get a little older, sometimes it's
  • like as you said, you're in a bar,
  • it's like oh, there's too many straight people here.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Need a little bit more of our own kind.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall any incidents of harassment
  • by the police.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I've never--
  • (knocks on wood)
  • --had a problem ever.
  • I don't remember any of my friends having any problems
  • at all.
  • There was an issue many, many, many,
  • many years ago after the gay parade when the parades first
  • started.
  • There was a big ruckus down at Durand
  • when there used to be a gay beach down there.
  • And I remember Frankie Starelli who was a friend of mine
  • and I can't remember who his partner was at the time.
  • But I remember a big ruckus with the police down there.
  • Like a lot of the guys getting roughed up and dragged away
  • and that kind of thing.
  • But I've never ever had a bad experience.
  • Fryer's was on Monroe Avenue in their parking lot
  • was L-shaped on to Union Street and then there
  • was another parking lot like adjacent to that off of Union
  • Street where we could park behind one of the apartment
  • buildings.
  • And one night I went from the farthest parking lot
  • and went the wrong way for the length of a house.
  • I went the wrong way on the one way street
  • and pulled in the L-shaped parking lot
  • to meet my date in his car.
  • And a cop nailed me for going the wrong way on a one way
  • street even though it was like from here to that wall.
  • And I had a little roach clip on the seat belt
  • and he tried to be a jerk about it
  • and told me he was going to shake the car down for pot
  • because he saw my roach clip.
  • And I was being very pleasant.
  • I wasn't being a jerk.
  • And I'm sure, I don't know if I was,
  • well, I'm sure I was legally drunk.
  • But he never, no ticket, no nothing.
  • I just, was just kind of scared the crap
  • out of me for a moment.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Did you did you hear about police taking down
  • license plate numbers?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I think there was always
  • a fear that that was happening or that could happen
  • or that was going on.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: You have to remember,
  • you didn't come out until '78.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah.
  • But again it was nothing that I ever experienced.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK, then go up to the '80s.
  • I have a recollection of Arnie and I think The Avenue Pub
  • having, not police, but guys would come in,
  • pick someone up, they go back to this gay guy's place
  • and they'd be beaten and robbed.
  • And the guy would be left there.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Be left.
  • I remember that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now the police, I think did put on a sting.
  • They sent in decoys.
  • I do remember that happening to an acquaintance of mine
  • on South Avenue.
  • But that's the only case that I remember.
  • And I don't ever remember hearing about this
  • that you're talking about, that these guys would
  • walk in and pick up these guys.
  • And you know what?
  • I mean not for anything, Evelyn.
  • But that's as a gay man, it's always
  • tucked in the back of your head, you know,
  • that's going to it's going to happen.
  • You know.
  • It's like shoplifting.
  • You can shoplift and shoplift and shoplift and shoplift
  • and not get away with it.
  • And you just continue shoplifting
  • until you're nailed.
  • And I mean you know like I said when we first sat down,
  • sex was just like there.
  • You would just look at somebody and you'd be walking out
  • the door with them.
  • Or you'd be in the bookstore, and the guy would come out
  • of the booth, come on.
  • And you'd follow him to his house, be in the freaking park.
  • You know?
  • Durand and Highland Park, in pitch black with no car close
  • by, no cell phone, no none of that.
  • And you'd be trolling around looking for it.
  • And you just, it's back there.
  • But you just, it's the thrill of the hunt
  • and the capture of the game and it just overrides all of that.
  • Yeah so it's nothing the I really ever let work me over.
  • It's always, you always think about it.
  • I just never let it-- you know you just--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I remember when I was first coming out,
  • one of the first pieces of advice that
  • was given to me by someone was never take them to your place.
  • Because if you go to their place, they're not going
  • beat you up at their place.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, that's good.
  • I remember when the cops were doing the stings in the parks.
  • And I would tell these guys that I knew loved going to the park.
  • It's like you know when they approach you,
  • just say, let's go back to my place.
  • Because you know, I mean the minute
  • you start anything in the park, you're in big, big trouble.
  • You know, let's go back, come on, we'll go back to my place.
  • If they don't want to go there they're
  • not there for what you think they're for.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right do you remember the first Gay Pride
  • march?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I remember the parade,
  • but I had the store so I couldn't watch it.
  • I couldn't participate in it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: That's right.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I think it might have been--
  • and we were on--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Edgerton.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I think we were just
  • on Lake Avenue at that point, had the shop on Lake Avenue
  • which was pretty youthful.
  • So you know I wouldn't--
  • I remember getting stuck behind it down East Avenue trying
  • to go to a wedding.
  • It's like oh my god, it's the god damn parade. (laughter)
  • But for years, I mean for years, I just never could see it.
  • And you know, of course since living on Park Avenue,
  • we've just hit lucky that we have been able to see it.
  • But now they've moved the time up.
  • And I can't finish with the weddings
  • fast enough to get home.
  • So I'm missing it again now.
  • Which I'm not thrilled about.
  • I enjoyed it and I enjoy seeing all my neighbors
  • on Park Avenue coming out to support the parade.
  • And I get the merchants, some of the merchants
  • to hang pride flags.
  • And so it's kind of a neat thing to have it on my street,
  • that I can govern and you know see the parade down that way.
  • I begged Michael to move the time back to where it was.
  • Because a lot of the merchants kind of bitched about it too.
  • Because they would get if it was closer to 5:00
  • they'd have a better chance of catching a dinner crowd.
  • So you know, they were a little disappointed
  • that they boost the slot up a little bit.
  • But you know I get it that it's done,
  • Michael said it's done for the party.
  • And it makes I guess it makes sense.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Aside from the stuff
  • that you used to do for the HPA dinners,
  • you know, the decor and all that,
  • did you get any actively involved in any other gay
  • activist community?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: No, I couldn't.
  • The store was really, really my primary focus.
  • And I had a business partner, Kevin,
  • but there was like twenty years between the two of us.
  • And you have to keep in mind that I started this store out
  • of my home on my own.
  • And then she just, I wound up with a business partner
  • totally by accident, literally totally by accident.
  • And so I was the, what's the word you
  • want to use, the point person.
  • I was the gay guy.
  • And I started out with the clientele.
  • I mean we opened up on Mother's Day of 1985 with a bang
  • because I had spent a year building a clientele out
  • of my home.
  • So you know, it was she and I and a delivery person
  • and we had all we could do to keep up with it.
  • And I was still working at a restaurant full time.
  • So I'd like do the flower shop and leave the shop at 5:00
  • and go work the restaurant from five till whenever the hell
  • I got out of there.
  • So because I was the point person,
  • I mean, we had these pipe dreams of we're
  • going to work really hard for ten years
  • and then we'll be able to just kind of back off
  • and let managers run the place.
  • And I'll just come in for random appointments.
  • What an asshole I was.
  • I mean, it's like, there's no way.
  • You can't do it.
  • It's just, it's impossible.
  • You can't do it.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: You made a name for yourself.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: That was it.
  • You know, and it was just there was
  • no way it was going to happen.
  • I mean we had good employees.
  • We had a great manager, but it's not their store.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: It was always going to be Jimmy Catalano's.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: That was the thing.
  • And you know on the random chance
  • that she and I were not in the store together,
  • you know the next day you'd come in
  • and you'd have four, five phone calls.
  • Well, I tried talking to your employee,
  • but they're impossible.
  • Or he was rude to me and he was this or she was that.
  • It's like, you just, you can't do it.
  • So consequently the store, and to this day,
  • I'm working, even though I'm at Kittelbergers
  • and not running the business, I'm
  • working fifty-five hours a week.
  • So there really wasn't tons of opportunity to get involved.
  • So I did things in the ways I could, donating flowers.
  • It's just, that's the way I was able to help
  • and that's the way I've continued to do it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And when HPA had its run, you were--
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Very, very involved.
  • That was, I mean I just loved that event.
  • And I had, not a vested interest in it,
  • but I just watched it grow.
  • And you know again, keep in mind that one of those events
  • was very magical for me because Bruce and I met a week before.
  • And it was we were at Ira Shearer's house for dinner
  • before that.
  • And he told me he loved me a week into our relationship.
  • And you know, I was on one of the telephone lines,
  • the date line there.
  • A friend of mine started it.
  • And he said I need you to put an ad on here.
  • I need voices on this when he started
  • this, this confidential dateline or connection
  • I think it was called.
  • I said, I don't to be involved in that.
  • It's a loser line.
  • Nobody's going to call that.
  • It's just-- He goes no, no, no.
  • Place the ad.
  • You don't ever have to answer it.
  • I just need voices on there.
  • And I have the ability to do a couple different voices.
  • So I put on a very hokey, you know, I like to go to movies.
  • I like dancing.
  • I like this and that.
  • And I got a couple of responses.
  • So you know, you're listening and it's like Jesus,
  • this guy doesn't sound too bad.
  • Well, I put an add on that was probably a little bit more--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Forward.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: A little more forward.
  • And it wasn't like I like to go to movies,
  • I like to go dancing.
  • It was what I like to do in bed.
  • And within thirty-six hours I had twenty messages.
  • And it's like, oh my god.
  • And again these guys sounded hot.
  • And there were a lot of straight ones on there,
  • which of course, you know what that's like for us
  • to bag a straight person?
  • I was having a blast.
  • The last thing I wanted to do was get into a relationship.
  • And I met Bruce, and it was, I knew I couldn't let him go.
  • There was no way.
  • We just, we met on September 20th and we haven't been apart,
  • I mean outside of business trips that he's had to take,
  • we've never been apart in twenty years.
  • We just, we clicked and it's just, it's worked.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So in the past forty or so years,
  • this community in Rochester has changed.
  • What has surprised you the most about its accomplishments?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Wow.
  • Man, Evelyn, there is a lot to talk about on that one.
  • I think the fact that once again we have become mainstream.
  • And again I'm going to use the word I don't like to use,
  • but so accepted, that I feel comfortable in telling you
  • that 92 percent of our community could care less if you're
  • gay or green or if you walk on your hands
  • when you're at Wegmans.
  • Nobody in my impression here gives a shit.
  • It's a live and let live attitude
  • and to me it seems like it's getting better every day.
  • I wish I knew some of the younger
  • crowd a little bit better.
  • I would just like to maybe see gay life from their eyes
  • and how they're experiencing it, and how different it
  • might be because they do have the internet.
  • You know, I guess we had our thing.
  • We had the bar and the bookstores.
  • And now they've got like the internet and gay.com and Adam
  • for Adam and Craigslist, and that's
  • their mode of hookup I guess.
  • So I'd like to see how that is for them.
  • I'd like to also just meet the up and coming next generation
  • and see where they're going to take us.
  • I think that would be really fascinating.
  • I don't really have, outside of when
  • we do our party for the festival,
  • and a random younger gay guy wanders up maybe
  • with a couple of friends or whatnot,
  • we don't really socialize with any of the younger crowd.
  • So I don't know what the workings of that all are.
  • On the rare occurrence that we go to Tilt,
  • I get to see the crowd and they're a great looking bunch
  • of people.
  • And they're there for the party like we were back
  • in our generation, which I get a kick out of seeing.
  • They seem for the most part to have their shit together.
  • You know we had a few messes in our day
  • that you could always count on being in the corner drooling
  • on themselves because they're just so hammered.
  • And you still see that.
  • But I wish I could meet some of the newer kids
  • and get their take on it, see what they seem to think
  • and see how they feel about being out and being
  • in Rochester and what it's like for them.
  • But we've definitely come a long way.
  • And I think we're just going to, I
  • think we're just going to keep going.
  • It's a shame that we lost Bob Duffy to the state.
  • Because I think believe it or not
  • I think he was a good catalyst for our community.
  • I think he had a lot of people enthused about Rochester.
  • I think he had his team in city Hall enthused about being there
  • and working for him.
  • And he was very, very, very welcoming to the gay community.
  • And I think that helped tremendously as well.
  • You know, not afraid of us one iota
  • and you know always in the thick of it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Did you ever think in your lifetime marriage
  • equality would be a reality?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Never ever, ever did
  • I think that that was going to happen.
  • I got to be honest with you.
  • I didn't think I would see it.
  • It's a big, big step, big step.
  • We personally have not taken advantage of it.
  • We're so overprotected.
  • YOU realize Bruce is corporate.
  • So we're so overprotected legally
  • that it's not an immediate.
  • When we did this years ago, when we bought that house
  • on Park Avenue we did it so that we'd be covered
  • and we did health care proxies and we did ironclad wills,
  • that if anybody in my family or anybody in his family
  • even raises an eyebrow, they're cut out.
  • Period.
  • (laughter)
  • You know I mean, we've protected ourselves financially
  • and stuff like this so nobody is going to be on the street
  • if something happens to the other one.
  • But I really, really think it's an amazing thing
  • that we are finally able to live like everybody else,
  • and get the same respect through the covenant of marriage
  • that anybody else gets.
  • We really do.
  • I think it's wonderful.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: One last question.
  • What are you most proud of?
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Oh, my god.
  • Boy, Evelyn, that's another one.
  • That's very, very hard question.
  • I can honestly tell you I don't know
  • if there's anything that if there's one particular thing
  • that I'm very proud of.
  • I can tell you, and I hope this doesn't
  • sound like grandstanding or that I'm full of myself,
  • but if I walked out that front door
  • and got hit by a speeding bus, I have had the best
  • life that I think there is.
  • I don't think I could go back, with the exception of not
  • learning how to play piano, there's nothing
  • that I could say, I wish I would have done this.
  • My mother used to beg me please, play the piano.
  • We'll buy you a piano tomorrow, please
  • and they didn't have much.
  • We'll buy you a piano tomorrow, please.
  • I wanted to play the guitar.
  • The Beatles were hot.
  • If you'll play the guitar, you'll
  • be-- if you play the piano, you'll
  • be able to play everything.
  • And I didn't want to do it because the piano was
  • for sissies.
  • That's my only regret.
  • They raised me to be a sociable, honest, caring, thoughtful
  • person.
  • And have I pissed people off along the way?
  • I'm sure I've been an asshole to many.
  • But for the most part, I have no regrets.
  • I have no guilt. I've had a very fortunate life.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, from my own experience
  • and from talking to other members of the community,
  • you're highly respected.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: I work hard to hear that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And you've given back an awful lot
  • to this community, not only as Carmen Miranda, but as
  • Jimmy Catalano, the florist, as Jimmy Catalano, the friend,
  • as Jimmy Catalano, someone who cares, is concerned,
  • and continues to be involved in your neighborhood
  • in the community.
  • And if someone comes and asks, you've never said no.
  • JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, I've never said no.
  • You know it's I grew up an only child, no siblings.
  • I was always fascinated with that one house.
  • And every neighborhood has the one crazy house where
  • it's full of family and it's full of people
  • and it's full of commotion and it's full of,
  • everybody just kind of congregates
  • there and gathers there.
  • And that house in my neighborhood
  • always fascinated me.
  • So when I moved out, my first apartment I