Audio Interview, Jimmy Catalano, May 17, 2012
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK, we're here with Jimmy Catalano who
- is currently--
- he's a florist and he's working at Kittelberger's.
- But had his own florist shop and has
- been a member of the community for many years.
- Had his own florist shop on Park Avenue at Edgerton Florists.
- And I think prior to that you were where?
- JIMMY CATALANO: I was in a bunch of different locations.
- I started out of my home in the Edgerton neighborhood
- which is where the name comes from.
- That was on Lorimer Street.
- And then my first shop after the business started taking off,
- I opened up a storefront on Lake Avenue at the corner of Ravine.
- And then moved from there because it really
- started taking off.
- We went to Lake Avenue at Lexington.
- And then the neighborhood started to sour.
- And my little, frightened Pittsford ladies
- were frightened coming to Lake Avenue.
- So we moved out to Irondequoit, Portland Avenue and Ridge East.
- And then our landlord leased over our lease to Rite Aid.
- And I moved to Park Avenue and spent the last eleven
- years of my twenty-six years in business on Park Avenue.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- JIMMY CATALANO: So that was wonderful.
- We've been living on Park Avenue for eighteen years.
- So it was nice.
- We got immediately involved in the neighborhood
- when we moved there.
- And then when I opened up the store there,
- I immediately became involved in the Merchant's Association.
- So in essence I still run the Merchant's Association.
- And my partner and I run the Neighborhood Association.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Good for you.
- JIMMY CATALANO: It's a great, great area.
- Great neighborhood.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I don't remember where on Park Avenue you were.
- JIMMY CATALANO: I'm on Park Avenue.
- Well the shop was between Rowley and Meigs.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- JIMMY CATALANO: And I was in two separate buildings.
- The front showroom was right on the street edge.
- And then there was a detached building
- in the rear that was the workshop.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I remember being down on Lake Avenue
- but I don't remember it on Park.
- JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah.
- A little tuck away.
- I mean, the store front showroom was probably
- as big as this room.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, were you born in Rochester?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Born and raised in Dutchtown in the Jay
- and Glide Maple Street area.
- And then in '65 the expressway came
- through-- the 490 expressway came through
- and took our house.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, wow.
- JIMMY CATALANO: And we moved out to Gates
- with the rest of the Italians that were in that neighborhood.
- And then when I turned nineteen, I came back to the city
- and my |first apartment was on Avery Street at Lyle Avenue.
- And I've just always stayed in the city.
- The 10th Ward, lived in the 10th Ward for a number of years.
- I loved it there because you could
- live in a mansion for next to nothing.
- The rents were so reasonable.
- And as much as I wanted to live on Park Avenue,
- it just really wasn't affordable.
- Even with roommates it just wasn't affordable.
- And then when I met Bruce I had purchased
- a home in the 10th Ward.
- But he had to buy a home.
- He was making really good money and he had to buy something.
- We met in September and my house purchase
- was in process at that point.
- And if I remember right, I closed in December
- just before Christmas.
- And we met that September of '91.
- And then stayed in the house on Pierpont Street for two years
- and then bought Park Avenue.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- JIMMY CATALANO: We've been there now.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Where on Pierpont?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Number 100 between Sealy Terrace
- and Driving Park.
- Right at the start of the street.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, up there.
- Because I live on Raines.
- JIMMY CATALANO: OK.
- It's the rowhouse that's right the minute you come down
- Pierpont Street from Driving Park,
- it's that three unit rowhouse.
- And I was the center unit.
- Nine room townhouse, I loved that place.
- I just loved it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- JIMMY CATALANO: But we had to grow, so--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, when did you come out?
- I mean--
- JIMMY CATALANO: I was a late bloomer.
- It's funny because I was telling Ann
- that I started being active when I was thirteen I was
- kind of the neighborhood slut.
- I was the one that started all the tent
- parties and that kind of thing that we do when we're teens.
- And I was very, very active with a lot of the sports teams
- in school.
- Of course, behind closed doors and under carpets and God
- knows where else.
- And nobody will ever to this day admit it,
- but I definitely took care of a lot of the guys
- that were involved in the sports at Gates-Chili High School.
- But didn't really come out.
- I was probably twenty-two or twenty-three,
- I had lived in this apartment building on Avery Street.
- It was nine apartments in this building on the corner of Avery
- and Lyle.
- And it was people that I worked with were there, living there.
- And it was friends of friends, you know.
- I had a friend that was living there.
- A friend of theirs wanted an apartment there.
- It was just one of those things.
- It was like living in a dorm.
- And they were all straight.
- What goes through your head is am I going to have friends?
- Are these people going to talk to me?
- You know, I'm not going to be able to hang out with anybody.
- And I'm very social.
- I'm very socially active.
- So, I did a lot of late night slip out
- of the apartment kind of a thing and go sneaking around.
- And a girl had moved into one of the apartments
- across the hall from me who was gay.
- And she knew that I was.
- I mean, she pegged me immediately.
- And she kept pushing for me to go to Jim's.
- And I had been by Jim's countless times.
- And I would just drive by it.
- Constantly just circle and circle
- and circle and circle and just not have the guts to go in it.
- And she just said we're going to go out to Jim's.
- I think you'll like it, you'll have fun, it's a great place.
- And you know, it's the push I needed
- to get me through the door.
- And you couldn't keep me out of there once I got in.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you remember about what year that was?
- JIMMY CATALANO: I'm going to tell you
- it would have been '78, '77, '78.
- Right in through there easily.
- Because I was working as a waiter at the Wishing Well
- at that point.
- And a husband and wife team owned it and their four adult
- children helped run it.
- And we were all the same age.
- And they were very comfortable with gay people.
- They had a lot of gay friends and they
- made me feel comfortable in my own skin
- that gay people are OK.
- It's not a big deal.
- We don't care and they definitely
- facilitated in my coming out and being comfortable with it.
- To the point where as far as whoever
- was at the apartment building, I really
- didn't even give a shit whether they knew or not.
- I started hanging out with gay people
- and then wound up with gay roommates moved out
- of the building and all that stuff.
- But I came out, and I came out with a vengeance.
- (laughter)
- I made up for a lot of lost time.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to talk or share with me that first
- experience of walking into Jim's.
- JIMMY CATALANO: It was magical, KEVIN INDOVINO.
- The lights, the music.
- And it's funny that Donna Summer passed away today
- because the first song I remember was Spring Affair.
- And just the thumping of the music,
- and the melody in her voice.
- And you know, the days at Jim's, they had all those lights going
- around the dance floor that said you know, orgasm and pulse.
- And I can't remember a lot of the words that
- were up there but to me it was fascinating.
- And the people were just so into the party with tambourines
- and castanets and the flaggers were there you know,
- with the fabric and the weighted fabric.
- And Tony Green, I remember him like
- it was yesterday with his tambourine.
- And the amazing dancing, almost choreographed dancing,
- between these gay guys was just--
- it really, really was magical.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Did it give you--
- was it your first sense of this is where I belong?
- JIMMY CATALANO: I can't tell you that I remember
- saying this is where I belong.
- But I do remember saying this isn't bad.
- There's nothing wrong with me being here.
- And I can come here now on my own
- and I don't have to be afraid.
- And you know, your first few trips there
- where you don't really know anybody
- I remember being a little--
- I don't know if I would say frightening, but maybe
- intimidating because you know you just don't know anybody.
- So you just kind of wind up standing there and just
- watching and observing and stuff like that.
- But people really, really were very, very friendly.
- And the fact that I was there with this girl that
- lived across from me was Linda, the fact
- that I was there with Linda, she knew a few people.
- And this girl Sandy Marino that she was seeing kind of
- was out there.
- She kind of knew a lot of people.
- And so I quickly got to meet people.
- And even if I didn't talk to them when I'd go back,
- they were a familiar face, made me feel very comfortable.
- I could say hello to them, they recognized me,
- they'd say hello to me.
- Made a big, big difference.
- It really made a big difference.
- And then you know, I just I started gathering friends very,
- very quickly.
- And it just exploded from there.
- Those were the days too that, if I remember right,
- we had like thirteen gay bars in the city.
- There was Jim's, and Friar's, and The Avenue Pub of course,
- The Forum was going, LA Saloon was going.
- People used to go to Bulwinkle's then at that time.
- What the hell else were there?
- There was just so many bars and then back streets opened.
- That was a while after though in the '80s they opened up.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The Rathskeller?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Rathskeller, yeah, on Elm Street.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Red Fez?
- JIMMY CATALANO: I don't remember that one.
- I remember I'll tell you there was the Red Fox, wasn't there?
- Didn't Jesse vulo have The Red Fox before Friar's?
- And I knew that was gay.
- And that was another bar I would drive around and drive around
- but would be too scared to go in.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What was the LA saloon?
- It's the first I've heard of it.
- JIMMY CATALANO: LA Saloon, Freddie Brown
- owned The LA Saloon.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: On Lake Avenue?
- JIMMY CATALANO: It was on Lake Avenue,
- right at the start of Lake Avenue.
- I think it's a restaurant now.
- Maybe like a dog, like a Marx Texas Hots number
- two or something like that.
- It's down from Spiro's, Tip-top is.
- It's like between State and there's a Tip-top Restaurant
- which was between State and Ambrose Streets,
- across from the Old Judge's Ford.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Dick's 43.
- JIMMY CATALANO: I remember Dick's 43
- but I never went in there.
- I heard that was a rough place though.
- The South Avenue Dick's, right?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- JIMMY CATALANO: I heard that it was a rough place.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The Riverview?
- JIMMY CATALANO: The Riverview I remember
- that's where I saw my first lesbian get
- smashed over the head with a beer bottle.
- (laughter)
- I had always heard these stories they had
- the fights at The Riverview.
- And Linda again took me there.
- She said you just can't walk in there,
- you've got to go in there with somebody that Lou knows.
- Or they'll throw you right out or they'll kick your ass.
- And so I went with Linda.
- And I did, I watched this fight at the pool table
- and watched this girl get a beer bottle smashed right
- over her head.
- (laughter)
- After she got whacked with the pool cue.
- (laughter)
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Then they went home together that night.
- JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, most likely.
- You know, God went and called for the U-Haul
- so they could move in together.
- I'm sure that happened.
- (laughter)
- EVELYN BAILEY: It probably did.
- It probably did.
- Allen Street?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Allen Street I remember as well.
- I only went there a couple times.
- I became very, very close friends via a roommate
- with Louis Costanza and he and I clicked.
- And I mean, we really, really clicked.
- And we were like Lucy and Ethel.
- And we would be out running around constantly getting
- into all sorts of trouble.
- It was Louis that also got me involved in the flower business
- because he had had a flower shop.
- He had opened a flower shop after we met in 1980
- and I would go help him out.
- In the afternoon I used to wait on tables out at The Wishing
- Well on Chili Avenue.
- And I was running the dining room floor.
- I was their waiter in charge.
- And I'd get a little hour and a half window in the afternoon
- after the kitchen closed for lunch
- and before it reopened for dinner.
- And I would go home and kind of like, become one with the sofa
- and wouldn't want to go back to work.
- And Louis opened up the store.
- So instead of going to the house,
- I'd go to the flower shop.
- And it started out I'd go to the flower shop
- and he and I would smoke pot and I'd go back to work.
- And then as he got busier, the pot smoking
- became less and less.
- And I'd go in and he'd have something made up and he'd say,
- can you make me five of these before you go back to work?
- I need them for a breakfast tomorrow
- morning at The Changing Scene or whatever.
- And little by little, it happened.
- I mean, I knew color and I knew balance.
- Neighbor ladies when I was in eighth grade
- would hire me to help pick out paint, and arrange their living
- room furniture, and help them pick out carpets and drapes.
- But I never knew floral design and found the mechanics of it
- quite fascinating and picked right up on it.
- Before I knew it, I was making bridal bouquets,
- and bridesmaids bouquets, and going out
- and he'd send me out to set up the weddings because I
- wasn't afraid of people.
- I'd be very you know, I would direct them.
- All right, here you sit the mother of the bride,
- you sit the mother groom, let's do this, let's do this,
- you go here, you go there.
- So it just caught on.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: As you said, you kind of
- came out with a vengeance.
- JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So I mean, talk to me
- about that period of the late '70s, early '80s.
- You know, what was the gay scene in Rochester?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Oh my god, the gay scene in Rochester
- was off the hook.
- I mean you could basically have--
- if you're talking about the sex end of it,
- you could have sex anywhere.
- I mean, it's just it was rampant.
- Down at Durand, in the bookstores,
- in the parking lots.
- I remember literally walking home one day
- in the early '80s from the LA Saloon.
- I had lived on Lake Avenue near Seneca Parkway.
- We lived right on Lake Avenue.
- And I'd have guys circle the block
- and follow me down the street.
- Until they'd finally-- I'd get near one of the side streets
- and they'd pull on the side street
- and roll their window down and start chatting
- and before you knew it, they'd be over at my house
- we'd be having a blast.
- And it just was there for the taking.
- I mean, there wasn't even anything to think about.
- The customers in the picked pick me up, busboys.
- It was just like--
- it was like it was falling out of the trees.
- It was unbelievable.
- And then the scare hit.
- And it was, it was frightening.
- I mean, nobody knew what was going on.
- We just knew gay people were getting sick
- and everybody withdrew.
- And I mean I had straight friends with children
- tell me you know, we like you a lot
- but we just don't want you at our house anymore.
- Because nobody knew what was going on.
- And that was crushing.
- I think it set us back easily decades
- because we were getting so mainstreamed,
- even back in the '70s.
- The disco era was hot, the gay bar was the place to be,
- the best music, the best party, the best people.
- And AIDS just kind of decimated that whole atmosphere.
- We became pariahs again, people were afraid of us,
- people didn't even want to be within ten feet of us,
- if we breathed on them they were afraid they
- would catch something.
- It was horrific.
- And then of course the parade of funerals
- is something I'll never forget and hope that I never
- have to live through again.
- Once we hit, I think it was maybe it really
- started to hammer my friends in the late '80s, early '90s,
- it was just one after another, after another, after another,
- after another.
- And it seems like that's all we did was bury people.
- It was terrible.
- It really, really was quite the experience, you know.
- I tried not to be discriminatory especially
- in the bar when everybody kind of calmed down and realized
- look, we can't just crawl under the front porch.
- I mean, you know.
- And the bar started to pick up again.
- I wasn't afraid to kiss somebody on the lips as a lot of people
- were.
- And I wasn't afraid to hug people.
- And I figured, you know what?
- If my friends are dying.
- If I'm going to get it, I'm going to go down with them.
- So I just always you know, kept a very positive attitude.
- And I was as far as my sexual taste, I was very vanilla.
- And I guess for those days, was fortunate that I
- wasn't participating in the riskier behaviors.
- And it's spared me because I probably
- had I been a little bit more active anally,
- I probably would not be here.
- Because I'll be honest with you, it was the days you know,
- you were a pig.
- That's all there was to it.
- It goes back to what we said a little while ago.
- It was just there at your fingertips.
- You didn't have to think about it.
- You didn't have to work for it.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And from your point of view,
- what do you think about the way Rochester kind of stepped
- up and reacted to the AIDS crisis
- and how we dealt with it?
- JIMMY CATALANO: You know, Rochester
- is an amazing community in all aspects.
- In all aspects.
- Because in '84 I started the flower shop.
- They started the HPA dinners helping people with AIDS,
- where you know, they'd go to the dinner parties
- around the community and then they'd
- have this big gathering at a central location.
- And the first year was a little bit on the lower key side
- but then it wound up being moved,
- if I remember right, to Midtown.
- And it was like if you weren't there, gay or straight,
- you were nobody.
- I mean, you were just like you know, what's wrong with you?
- Why aren't you attending this event?
- Just thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands
- of people there.
- And it made your heart explode to know that yes, there's
- a ton of gay people here really supporting this cause.
- But there's also a ton of straight people
- here that are intermingling, and showing that they're not
- afraid, and that we're going to work on this together,
- and we're going to do what we can to get through it,
- and help people.
- And one of my neighbors on Park Avenue
- who at that time in the '80s I had not met,
- she would go and feed these poor guys
- that were dying alone because nobody would go and help them.
- She'd go and feed them and give them little you know,
- clean their faces with a sponge and help them change bed sheets
- and do whatever she can.
- And she's just an absolute miracle
- for that time and place.
- And so you know, it's the makeup of Rochester.
- We're a big small town that everybody I think is connected.
- I mean look at what I just--
- with Ann.
- Just waiting for you and finding out
- that she and I have been connected
- in one way or another.
- We both went to the same school, I graduated with her brother,
- and we knew teachers together, knew neighborhoods,
- knew different--
- it's the way Rochester works.
- That's why I'll never leave here, never.
- It's been good to me.
- It's been good business wise, it's been good socially.
- You know, I feel like I can walk into a business
- and know somebody or run into somebody.
- And that's I think a very comfortable feeling.
- When my parents got sick, you know,
- I'd be in the emergency department with my mom.
- And a doctor that was one of my flower customers
- would come around the corner, oh my god what are you doing here?
- You know, it's just nice to know that you know somebody
- and that's what it's all about here.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Do you remember who--
- I think there were three people who began HPA.
- JIMMY CATALANO: Tony Green.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Dan Meyers?
- JIMMY CATALANO: I think Danny was definitely involved.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And Jerry Algozer?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Yes, if I remember correctly.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- JIMMY CATALANO: But Tony Green was my connection to the group.
- He and I were close.
- And you know, Tony had a zest for life
- that was just unmatchable and he kept that until the very end.
- Larry Kohn who was a bartender at Friar's,
- and I went to see Tony when he was in the hospital
- when it was towards the end.
- And you know, we had a great visit.
- I had everybody laughing and joking and carrying on
- and we had a blast.
- And I walked out of that room and literally just fell
- to pieces out in the hallway at Highland Hospital.
- Because it was just--
- it was like, how could this happen to him?
- You know?
- Here, that's all he did once AIDS hit
- and it took Jesse Vulo who owned Friar's
- that Tony worked for, he was like the first death
- in Rochester that we remember.
- Tony just went into it hook, line, and sinker.
- I mean, that's all he thought about was people with AIDS
- and how to help them, and what to do for them,
- and finding out what's going on, and getting
- rid of this disease.
- And you know, to see him disintegrate from it,
- it was just heart wrenching.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Who did the decorations
- for the first Midtown event?
- JIMMY CATALANO: I helped.
- There was a '50s themed party and Neil--
- oh god, it just went right out of my head.
- Neil, handsome, handsome man, he was the display director
- for Midtown Plaza.
- He had been at Sibley's for a number of years,
- was Forman's for a number of years.
- Parisella.
- Neil Parisella was the inspiration and the set
- decorator for that event.
- And the one I remember, it was a '50s theme, and I helped.
- There was a bunch of us gay guys, floral designers,
- we met at Stanley's Florist on Park Avenue in their back room
- and made arrangements from nothing for this event.
- Stuff that these guys went out to the woods
- and chopped down branches and sumac and all this stuff.
- And we had some greens, and some Fuji
- mums that somebody donated, and all these branches that they
- chopped out of the woods.
- And we put these floral arrangements together.
- And then the next big one that I remember
- was the cruise ship that Neil made
- with foamcore and the little Styrofoam popcorns.
- That was just unbelievable.
- It was just crazy.
- And that's the one, I think Bruce was with me at that one,
- he and I had met at that point.
- And he was blown away.
- My life partner was engaged and we met.
- And that was the end of the engagement.
- And literally we met on September 20th,
- and Dining for Dollars was the following weekend.
- And he came with me and I dragged him all around midtown.
- He was a little overwhelmed because of course, you
- know our hello is not a handshake,
- its a hug and a kiss.
- And you know, after going and saying hello
- with a hug and a kiss to hundreds,
- I did get dragged by the elbow off to the side.
- And he's like, have you slept with all these people?
- And I just laughed in his face.
- I said, no why would you think that?
- And he said, well, you're kissing everybody.
- It's like oh my god, I never thought about it.
- I said, that's how we say hello.
- (laughter)
- EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, Jimmy.
- JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah you know, that's--
- Bruce missed my Carmen Miranda life.
- And she introduced me to a ton of people.
- She really did introduce me for that brief few years,
- four years, five years.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You became infamous in that time.
- JIMMY CATALANO: I did.
- I mean, and it started out as a joke.
- It was the best part of it.
- Friar's had a party--
- I can't even remember what the name of it was.
- Might have been Bungle in the Jungle.
- It was Bungle in the Jungle.
- And I put together a fruit headdress
- and went out as Carmen Miranda.
- And it just stuck.
- And then I refined the outfit a little bit more
- for that following-- that was a summer party.
- I refined the outfit a little bit more
- for Halloween when Jim's used to do their big Halloween party
- and the Miss Rochester pageant.
- And the following year, David Bovenzi who was Esther Hoffman,
- was putting the pageant together.
- And said, I'd like you to MC it.
- We've never had an MC The DJ just always
- barked out the names and I think I'd like an MC.
- And it's like, I can do that.
- And she took off.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What years are we talking about?
- JIMMY CATALANO: '81 to '85, maybe '84.
- I opened up the store in '85 and I just kind of like,
- tucked a lot of that stuff away.
- And she ran her course.
- She definitely ran her course.
- I did make another appearance as Carmen Miranda in 1990.
- Irish Shear and Richard Moore and Bill Valenti
- put on a huge show at the convention center
- called That's What Friends Are For.
- And they brought in Holly Brown who was a national drag
- performer at that point.
- And they asked me to MC it and I couldn't say no to them.
- They were friends.
- And it was, for me, the opportunity
- to be in front of 1,000 people too.
- I had I think the biggest crowd I ever
- was in front of was 500 or 600.
- Five I know for sure.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, when did--
- in '81 when you were Carmen, that
- wasn't the first drag show in Rochester?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Oh, no.
- No.
- There had been drag shows.
- I mean, you know, I started--
- Bernie or Randy--
- Bernie Brown was the first queen I saw crowned Miss Rochester.
- And I think he was Miss Rochester '79, maybe.
- Those pageants were unbelievable.
- There'd be 30 queens competing.
- But what I found out is that Miss Rochester started eons
- before I ever set foot and saw my first, not even pageant,
- but the first drag show started at the Labor Lyceum
- on St. Paul's Street.
- And they used a Clorox bottle for a crown.
- Somebody cut--
- (laughter)
- --they cut up a Clorox bottle and sprayed it gold
- and glued some plastic jewels to it.
- And that's what they used to crown the queen's with.
- And that was at the Lyceum?
- JIMMY CATALANO: The Labor Lyceum and it
- was on St. Paul's Street.
- That's where they used to do the pageants.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: That was one of the old theaters
- they tore down, right?
- JIMMY CATALANO: I don't think it's there.
- I haven't been down there in ages
- and I don't think it's there any longer.
- EVELYN BAILEY: No, it's no longer there.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: The Lyceum was an old vaudeville theater
- that they tore down.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And so, Bernie Brown was the first?
- JIMMY CATALANO: That I saw crowned.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- JIMMY CATALANO: That was the first pageant.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That you saw?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Mm-hm.
- And I think, if I remember right Evelyn,
- Randy Munger was the reigning queen.
- I'm a little gray there.
- If it was Randy, Bernie, then David Bovenzi, or Bernie,
- Randy, and David Bovenzi.
- But I remember Randy definitely being Miss Rochester.
- But there would be thirty queens competing.
- And they'd come from Buffalo and they'd come from Syracuse
- to compete for the crown.
- And it would be brutal because they'd be lined up backstage
- and they'd call up one of the queens from Syracuse
- and one of the Rochester queens.
- As she'd go to make her entrance out on the stage,
- they'd hook a hanger in her hair so she'd
- come out with this big hair and a hanger hanging out of it.
- They'd burn dresses, they'd put dresses in the toilet,
- I mean they'd get called out to the stage
- and as they'd start walking, they'd yank their wigs off
- so they couldn't do their walk on.
- It was bad, it was really bad.
- And then they would whittle it down to a top ten.
- And God forbid if your favorite didn't make top ten.
- I mean, there'd be near riots.
- There was one year with Rondretta and Nicole
- that they didn't make top ten and they stormed off the stage.
- They used to display the trophies out
- on the center stage at the Harro East which was the Triangle
- Theater at that point.
- And I remember Nicole and Rondretta
- walking across the stage, grabbing the winner's trophy,
- raising it up in the air, and then walking down
- the steps in front of a performer, somebody performing
- their talent number right in front of them.
- Walked right by him.
- Spitting on the judges, they had to call security in.
- One year to escort the judges out because it got so bad.
- (laughter)
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, the Triangle Theater was Harro East.
- Do you recall where it might have been before Harro East?
- JIMMY CATALANO: I only know the Harrow East was the Triangle.
- And that's all.
- I know it as the Triangle and then the Harrow.
- Because when I did--
- Carmen Miranda produced two huge shows
- and they were both at the Triangle.
- And they were in '81, 1982.
- That's why I know we had 500 people because we sold tickets.
- EVELYN BAILEY: After Harrow East,
- it went to the convention center?
- No.
- JIMMY CATALANO: The pageant did spend--
- the pageant has bounced around.
- It's been at the convention center in the late '80s,
- it has been at a Holiday Inn downtown,
- it's been at the Hyatt, it's been at Heaven,
- and then most recently this past run consecutively
- has been at Harrow East.
- And that just feels like home for that damn pageant.
- It really, really does.
- I don't know, maybe because my first one was there.
- It's the stage and it's just I don't know,
- it's a little bit more of a relaxed ambiance.
- And it just seems like the right place to host it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now Heaven was on Liberty Pole Way.
- JIMMY CATALANO: It was on Liberty Pole
- Way in the old Baptist temple building.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And the Pentagon, that was a bar also?
- JIMMY CATALANO: On St. Paul Street, that was one of Tim's--
- if I remember right, that was one of Tim's bars.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Before '81, or when you came out,
- did you know many of the queen's?
- JIMMY CATALANO: No, no, I had not.
- My first drag show was-- you know, back then,
- there wasn't a drag show every three days like there is now.
- 140 Alex has one on Thursday and on Sunday, and this one's here,
- and this one's there.
- They were events.
- I mean, they would happen maybe every four months,
- every six months.
- And they really made them events.
- Jim's used to do Christmas in July
- and the place would be packed.
- I mean, to the point probably of violations, fire department
- violations.
- But I mean, it would be on a Sunday night
- and the place would be mobbed.
- And it would be from 9:30 till 2:30 in the morning.
- And they would do this drag show.
- And my first drag show Freddy Bass was in it,
- Ricky Love was in it and he was amazing
- because he did not look like a drag queen.
- Those were the days that they were still
- with the big hair, and the very exaggerated movements.
- And Ricky Love was just like somebody
- that you'd see at a wedding, dressed up, smoothed
- out hair, nothing big, nothing.
- But he was in it.
- And Nicole, Darryl Farnsworth was Nicole, he was in it.
- Willy Irig was Dolly Parton, he was in it.
- And can't remember who else.
- Those are the ones I remember the most,
- but there was probably six queens that were performing.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Is there a place where or is there someone who
- has kind of kept the history?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Boy, that's a real good question
- and I would probably tell you that we probably have just
- kept our own histories.
- As far as anything documented, I don't
- know if there is anything.
- I sure haven't ever heard of it if there is something.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Doubt it.
- Like you said, I think they've each
- kept their own individual portfolios and collections.
- Pictures?
- JIMMY CATALANO: I have some predominantly of my own shows
- and stuff.
- But I have some that are tucked away.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Have the Miss Rochester's been videotaped?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, pretty much annually.
- I don't know.
- I can't tell you they've been doing it recently.
- But we went through quite the stretch
- when videotape became popular that they've been videotaped.
- I'm going to tell you since the early '80s.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So, who?
- Was there like a main organization or a main person
- who kind of produced the Miss Rochester
- pageants from year to year?
- JIMMY CATALANO: It was Jim's.
- It was the bar.
- It was a cash cow for them.
- I mean is really what it was.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Where did those videotapes wind up?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Don't forget, it was the Halloween party.
- So, they kind of piggy backed the Miss Rochester--
- I mean, because everybody would show up in costume.
- Virtually everybody.
- And you know, and the pageant was just
- part of this Halloween party.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But even today, like the last one
- at the Harrow East, who produced it?
- JIMMY CATALANO: All right, now there this is a group.
- Beck and Rondretta. won the title of Miss Rochester well
- it had to be like mid '80s.
- '84 maybe?
- He was smart.
- I don't know if he was smart.
- He was slick.
- He went downtown and registered the pageant the Miss Rochester
- pageant as a legal title and business
- and literally took the pageant away from the bar.
- And he formed a group called M.L.--
- No, I take that back.
- He had Pioro Productions.
- And he ran the pageant with Tommy Catone
- and Rob Fox who were a-list gays back in the day.
- And then Ronnie passed.
- And he willed the pageant to Marcella, Liza, Tori, and Vicki
- also known as Michael D. And they formed
- and MLTV Productions and they ran the pageant
- for a number of years consecutively.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Marcella.
- JIMMY CATALANO: Marcella, Liza Tori and Vicki.
- So you had Joey Guagliardo, and Wayne Esposito, Jimmy Sands,
- and Michael D. And then maybe three years ago,
- Jimmy Sands and Marcella, the M and the T, pulled out.
- Because my life partner Bruce and I went--
- we tried to have a meeting with them
- and they wound up fighting amongst each other
- before the meeting even started over what kind of money
- they wanted and all that.
- And Aggy Dune and myself, and then Liza wanted to stay on,
- and Michael D I guess was on the fence.
- He didn't know what he wanted to do with it.
- But we were going to buy their shares, their interest in it
- out.
- And so it would have been Aggy Dune, and Liza, and me.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- JIMMY CATALANO: But I--
- that just never came to fruition.
- That meeting went to shit and I never
- got another phone call again about another meeting.
- And the way I looked at it is if it's
- meant to be, it's meant to be.
- I'm not going to pursue it.
- I'm not going to go claw at their doors
- if they're having second thoughts.
- It's their baby.
- You know what I mean?
- It's sentimental maybe because of Ronnie and all that.
- So I just let it go.
- And now Aggy Dune, and Liza, and Michael D.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So Michael stayed on?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Michael stayed on.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So Michael may be a person who
- knows where old videotapes are?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Liza is who I think I would
- tell you to talk to first.
- I have maybe one or two tapes from the '80s.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I have a question if you don't have one
- immediately.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Go ahead.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: From your point of view
- in your experience with the drag queen community,
- in your opinion, why do you think
- that became so aligned with the gay community?
- JIMMY CATALANO: The glamour, the fashion, the transformation,
- and I think our fascination with celebrity.
- I really think that that's what drives the popularity.
- I think that's what makes the performers want to do it.
- I can tell you that I got the most tremendous rush
- being out on the stage.
- And you can't see anybody because you're
- blinded by the spotlights.
- I mean, you can glimpse a few people here and there.
- But when they are screaming to the point
- where you can't hear the music that you're lip syncing to,
- I can't explain to you what that does to you inside.
- And for a lot of us who are picked on, who are bullied,
- who are introverted, who have some kind of hang up,
- because in a lot of cases gay people
- have major issues because we don't
- feel comfortable in our own skin sometime.
- This could be the most tremendous outlet for you.
- And I also feel that there are people that truly are talented.
- And you know, instead of going to New York City
- and beating the streets.
- Or California and hoping to God you get discovered.
- And you know, wait on tables or work at Wal-Mart
- and as you're trying to get some sort of an entertainment gig,
- this is your outlet to do that.
- And through the years, the talent
- that we've had in Rochester has really been tremendous.
- I mean, we've got Ed Popiel, Akasha Davis,
- we've got Aggy Dune.
- I mean, they're amazing.
- We've got Pandora, look what's happened with her.
- We've got Darien Lake, she is tremendous.
- We had Maya.
- I mean, it's just the talent that
- is in the impersonation community is really, really
- unbelievable.
- And they really do put their best foot forward.
- I mean, they really come out.
- They spend exorbitant amounts of money.
- And in the day when I was involved in it,
- that came out of your rent.
- I mean, you'd make tips but thirty bucks.
- Nothing like you know, the bars pay them now
- and they go home with tons of money
- that they pick up in tips.
- It's a whole different ballgame.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, yeah.
- JIMMY CATALANO: You know, but I've
- seen people have their lights shut off
- because they had to buy sequin fabric to make a dress.
- (laughter)
- I mean I've done the same thing.
- I've held my rent for twelve days, fifteen days
- so I could have money for shoes and lashes and stockings
- and costumes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Talk to me a little bit
- about the experience of being a drag queen in Rochester
- and being known as that in the larger community.
- JIMMY CATALANO: I never took it too seriously, Evelyn.
- I had a blast with that character that I portrayed
- but I never really got involved outside of MC'ing the pageants,
- I never had a desire to enter a pageant or to be Miss Rochester
- or to claw my way to the top which I think some of them kind
- of get caught up into it.
- Or maybe it's just a natural part
- of the evolution of the character
- that you want to be better, you want to keep growing,
- you want to be queen, you've got to be queen,
- I have to be queen, I'm going to kill somebody
- if I can't be queen.
- And that never happened with me.
- There was a lot of in fighting amongst the different queens
- and a lot of back stabbing.
- And I just always managed to stay out of that.
- I was nice to everybody.
- I was kind to everybody, I was considerate,
- I was as helpful as I could possibly be,
- and just always managed to kind of stay out of that.
- You know again, it happened by accident.
- It was probably to my desire to be an entertainer.
- Like I said earlier, the rush from being up on that stage
- and having people cheer for you was just unbelievable.
- You know, that's just--
- I don't regret it for a moment.
- But for me, it definitely ran its course.
- You know, every year Liza says or Michael D says,
- you know, we got to bring out the old girls, honey.
- And it's like you know, in theory it's cute.
- But these kids aren't going to know
- who the hell I am now anymore.
- You know, I was just the emcee it's not like I had--
- I had a following but it was just--
- I'm not known for a particular song.
- I mean, there's some of the queen's that it's
- like, OK, Bernie Brown Last Dance is what he won with.
- That's his song.
- And this one had this song, and this one had this song.
- And you know, Aggy Dune has songs
- she does that people go crazy over and she's known for that.
- And I don't.
- So it's like, they're not going to know who the hell I am.
- I have no interest in doing that.
- (laughter)
- EVELYN BAILEY: The phenomenon of drag king?
- I mean, I don't remember early in Rochester that--
- JIMMY CATALANO: That started at Allen Street.
- You had mentioned Allen Street.
- And that kind of started at Allen Street
- when Darlene Esposito had that.
- And it was just kind of a little here, a little there.
- And then when forty Union closed and Chris Santoro opened it up
- as Mother's, the drag kings really
- started to be a little bit more presented to the population.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: They started having their own night there.
- JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, yeah, it was like a Tuesday or something
- like that, Kevin.
- They would have drag king's night.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And it was something
- that really, I think, kind of came out
- of what they were hearing out of like, the New York scene
- or the San Francisco scene.
- It was like, well you know they've got drag kings.
- We need to start our own little local drag kings.
- JIMMY CATALANO: And I mean, the little experience
- I have with them, they're good.
- I mean, at that point when they really started
- in the '90s, really started to be a presence,
- Bruce and I were together and my bar days just kind of--
- we would go out on Saturday night,
- we would go out every Saturday night
- for the first maybe, four or five years of our relationship.
- But then, once we moved to Park Avenue, it just dwindled.
- You know, we sit out on our porch
- and the party comes to us.
- We don't have to go out anymore.
- Seriously.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well everybody knows your house.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That's right.
- JIMMY CATALANO: With no exaggeration
- I mean, once we get into high summer season,
- he cooks for eight people.
- Because if we have dinner out there,
- we wind up with a mob sitting out there with us.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- JIMMY CATALANO: So, it's just never
- been a need for us to go out now anymore.
- So the drag kings kind of kind of came around.
- And I know them and I've been entertained by them,
- but I don't know them.
- I don't even know if that's still
- even a popular thing anymore.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I think they're still there
- but it just kind of came and went.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- JIMMY CATALANO: That the drag queens are really--
- the queens are--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: They know how to put on a show.
- JIMMY CATALANO: They do.
- They do.
- And again, I just think it goes back
- to that glamour and our interest in celebrities.
- Female celebrities especially.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And that's why drag kings basically fell
- because there's no glamour.
- JIMMY CATALANO: There's really no glamour to it.
- What I want to know, this is something
- for like the science majors I guess,
- is why we are attracted to the same celebrities?
- Marilyn Monroe, Judy Garland, Barbara Streisand,
- I mean it just-- it's Diana Ross.
- It's funny how we just kind of fixate.
- Because I remember being in second grade and I knew
- I was different.
- There was a kid named John, his parents
- owned a hotel in Florida.
- And he would come to school from April to June
- and he used to sit-in front of me.
- And he was so cute and I remember telling him
- I was going to kiss him.
- And he would bring me gifts every week,
- stupid little trinkets, so that I wouldn't kiss him
- in second grade.
- But I remember watching Wizard of Oz
- and just falling in love with Judy Garland.
- And whenever she'd be on TV, a special or Ed Sullivan
- or something, just being glued to the screen watching her.
- And watching Barbra Streisand.
- How does this happen?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I don't know.
- JIMMY CATALANO: How do we as gay man just
- get sucked in to the same, predominantly the same women?
- There's something you've got to go study.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Right.
- (laughter)
- EVELYN BAILEY: I have a word for that, chemistry.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Chemistry or presence, there's
- a certain presence that I think you pick up on.
- JIMMY CATALANO: That we identify with in one way or another.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well they're also very authentic.
- JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, and you know like nowadays too,
- you get the likes of Bette Midler and Liza
- that really play to a gay audience.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I want to take you back
- not to the second grade, but to when you were growing up.
- Was being gay, was homosexuality a topic?
- JIMMY CATALANO: No, you were sissies then.
- You were sissies.
- I didn't know gay, I didn't know what a homosexual was,
- but I knew what a sissy was.
- And that's what gay guys were.
- We're sissies.
- And I mean, I really knew.
- And my mother never confronted me nor did my father.
- I was never athletic.
- I played with girls predominantly, especially
- as a younger kid when we moved out
- and we moved to Gates I did wind up with male friends.
- But again, never really the sports involved
- or anything like that.
- I mean, here is a kid in eighth grade going
- to the neighbor lady down the street and around the corner
- because I'm going to go help her pick out carpets and wallpaper
- and arrange her living room furniture.
- I mean, so you know, and again I didn't
- have tons of issues with other kids
- in the neighborhood about it.
- When I was younger, when we lived in the city,
- I remember because I wouldn't play baseball
- or I wouldn't do this, I remember being called a sissy.
- Oh, he's a sissy, he wouldn't play anyhow
- so don't worry about it.
- I used to play with the girl across the street
- with her Barbies.
- Only I always got stuck with Midge.
- I could never be Barbie.
- I always had to be freaking Midge.
- I hated Midge.
- I hated her hair.
- And I always got the hand me downs that Barbie
- didn't want to wear.
- (laughter)
- JIMMY CATALANO: But I mean, you knew.
- You just-- you knew and you just kind of a kept a lid on it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: When you were driving around Jim's and--
- JIMMY CATALANO: --and the Red Carpet.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --the Red Carpet.
- Were there other ways in the city for a gay man or a lesbian
- to connect outside of the house?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Not that I am-- then,
- if there was something I sure wasn't aware of it.
- Not like there is now.
- I mean, the internet is like an unlimited pool of--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But were you aware of things like the Gay
- Alliance?
- JIMMY CATALANO: No, no.
- No.
- I had no idea.
- Again, once I met this neighbor across from me, this Linda.
- She was a vault of information.
- Our birthdays were a day apart, she was a few years older
- than I, but again in this apartment building
- I was living in was kind of turning over.
- A lot of the friends of the friends of the friends
- were moving out, and I was kind of bringing
- some gay people in that I would meet that you know were looking
- for apartments and stuff.
- And then Linda was living there and she was my educator
- as far as telling me there is an association, this Gay Alliance,
- and that kind of thing.
- But in all honesty, I never used the facility.
- I just never felt there was a need to use the facility.
- And I don't know back then, Kevin
- even if I knew it was here.
- It's just scary.
- I mean, the kids now and I'm not speaking of course
- from experience, but only from observing.
- They're a lot more comfortable than I might have been.
- Or a lot more comfortable than the generation before me
- might have been.
- We just buried one of our neighbors
- who was an adult in the '50s.
- And did the marriage thing, did the three kids,
- did the whole thing, and did that whole game.
- And you know, did wind up leaving his wife
- when the kids were infants.
- And you know, did the gay thing.
- But it was always behind a closed door
- or these little gatherings at somebody's home.
- And you know, they were just-- a lot of times
- they would go to the bars but from what he tells me,
- it's nothing like the bar life I experienced
- or maybe what the bar life is now.
- So I think you know as each generation moves into it
- and we're accepted more and--
- I hate the word accepted.
- We're mainstreamed more.
- I mean look at what, two gay bars, three gay, two gay bars
- that we have now because there's really
- not a need for them anymore.
- And the gay bars we have are predominantly
- filled with straight people, with the exception
- of The Pub and The Forum.
- You go to Tilt it's straight.
- Because it's a great place to be.
- It's a fun place to be.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Nice place to dance.
- JIMMY CATALANO: Same thing, the music is great.
- The lights, the atmosphere, the ambiance.
- Here we go again.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: That happened to a lot of the gay clubs,
- I noticed that like in the '90s, like once the straight people
- found it, we were out of there.
- JIMMY CATALANO: We were out of there.
- The only place that worked was mixed was Carpe Diem.
- That place was amazing.
- And that, I think happened totally by accident
- because there was an interim where there was no Dance
- Palace for us to go to.
- There was it's that window that there was nothing before Joey
- opened Marcelo's.
- And I think that just kind of happened out of necessity
- that we just started wandering in there
- and filtering in there.
- I mean because when Bruce and I would go,
- it was predominately straight.
- It just seemed like every week, we
- used to go with his college friends and stuff.
- And it seemed like every week it was gayer
- and gayer and gayer and gayer and nobody gave a shit.
- And I loved that about that club.
- I really, really loved that about that.
- To me it just felt so metropolitan.
- And it's like finally, Rochester has gotten it.
- That we can do this.
- You don't have to have a gay bar and you don't
- have to have a straight bar.
- Is it nice to have the two?
- Of course it is.
- It's nice to go into a gay bar and know that, all right,
- this guy is attractive.
- He's in a gay bar.
- I can go talk to him and with the hopes of dragging him home,
- you know?
- But I just I don't think that they're necessary anymore.
- I think they'll be nice to keep around just because we're
- the best partiers.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I think it'll just go in cycles.
- JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, probably quite right.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- I don't see them disappearing.
- Because the next generation coming along
- is always going to be coming out.
- JIMMY CATALANO: You'll need that haven.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And that process.
- JIMMY CATALANO: You'll need that little haven.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Especially, not only coming out,
- but as they get a little older, sometimes it's
- like as you said, you're in a bar,
- it's like oh, there's too many straight people here.
- JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Need a little bit more of our own kind.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall any incidents of harassment
- by the police.
- JIMMY CATALANO: I've never--
- (knocks on wood)
- --had a problem ever.
- I don't remember any of my friends having any problems
- at all.
- There was an issue many, many, many,
- many years ago after the gay parade when the parades first
- started.
- There was a big ruckus down at Durand
- when there used to be a gay beach down there.
- And I remember Frankie Starelli who was a friend of mine
- and I can't remember who his partner was at the time.
- But I remember a big ruckus with the police down there.
- Like a lot of the guys getting roughed up and dragged away
- and that kind of thing.
- But I've never ever had a bad experience.
- Fryer's was on Monroe Avenue in their parking lot
- was L-shaped on to Union Street and then there
- was another parking lot like adjacent to that off of Union
- Street where we could park behind one of the apartment
- buildings.
- And one night I went from the farthest parking lot
- and went the wrong way for the length of a house.
- I went the wrong way on the one way street
- and pulled in the L-shaped parking lot
- to meet my date in his car.
- And a cop nailed me for going the wrong way on a one way
- street even though it was like from here to that wall.
- And I had a little roach clip on the seat belt
- and he tried to be a jerk about it
- and told me he was going to shake the car down for pot
- because he saw my roach clip.
- And I was being very pleasant.
- I wasn't being a jerk.
- And I'm sure, I don't know if I was,
- well, I'm sure I was legally drunk.
- But he never, no ticket, no nothing.
- I just, was just kind of scared the crap
- out of me for a moment.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did you did you hear about police taking down
- license plate numbers?
- JIMMY CATALANO: I think there was always
- a fear that that was happening or that could happen
- or that was going on.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: You have to remember,
- you didn't come out until '78.
- JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah.
- But again it was nothing that I ever experienced.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK, then go up to the '80s.
- I have a recollection of Arnie and I think The Avenue Pub
- having, not police, but guys would come in,
- pick someone up, they go back to this gay guy's place
- and they'd be beaten and robbed.
- And the guy would be left there.
- JIMMY CATALANO: Be left.
- I remember that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now the police, I think did put on a sting.
- They sent in decoys.
- I do remember that happening to an acquaintance of mine
- on South Avenue.
- But that's the only case that I remember.
- And I don't ever remember hearing about this
- that you're talking about, that these guys would
- walk in and pick up these guys.
- And you know what?
- I mean not for anything, Evelyn.
- But that's as a gay man, it's always
- tucked in the back of your head, you know,
- that's going to it's going to happen.
- You know.
- It's like shoplifting.
- You can shoplift and shoplift and shoplift and shoplift
- and not get away with it.
- And you just continue shoplifting
- until you're nailed.
- And I mean you know like I said when we first sat down,
- sex was just like there.
- You would just look at somebody and you'd be walking out
- the door with them.
- Or you'd be in the bookstore, and the guy would come out
- of the booth, come on.
- And you'd follow him to his house, be in the freaking park.
- You know?
- Durand and Highland Park, in pitch black with no car close
- by, no cell phone, no none of that.
- And you'd be trolling around looking for it.
- And you just, it's back there.
- But you just, it's the thrill of the hunt
- and the capture of the game and it just overrides all of that.
- Yeah so it's nothing the I really ever let work me over.
- It's always, you always think about it.
- I just never let it-- you know you just--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I remember when I was first coming out,
- one of the first pieces of advice that
- was given to me by someone was never take them to your place.
- Because if you go to their place, they're not going
- beat you up at their place.
- JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, that's good.
- I remember when the cops were doing the stings in the parks.
- And I would tell these guys that I knew loved going to the park.
- It's like you know when they approach you,
- just say, let's go back to my place.
- Because you know, I mean the minute
- you start anything in the park, you're in big, big trouble.
- You know, let's go back, come on, we'll go back to my place.
- If they don't want to go there they're
- not there for what you think they're for.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right do you remember the first Gay Pride
- march?
- JIMMY CATALANO: I remember the parade,
- but I had the store so I couldn't watch it.
- I couldn't participate in it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That's right.
- JIMMY CATALANO: I think it might have been--
- and we were on--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Edgerton.
- JIMMY CATALANO: I think we were just
- on Lake Avenue at that point, had the shop on Lake Avenue
- which was pretty youthful.
- So you know I wouldn't--
- I remember getting stuck behind it down East Avenue trying
- to go to a wedding.
- It's like oh my god, it's the god damn parade. (laughter)
- But for years, I mean for years, I just never could see it.
- And you know, of course since living on Park Avenue,
- we've just hit lucky that we have been able to see it.
- But now they've moved the time up.
- And I can't finish with the weddings
- fast enough to get home.
- So I'm missing it again now.
- Which I'm not thrilled about.
- I enjoyed it and I enjoy seeing all my neighbors
- on Park Avenue coming out to support the parade.
- And I get the merchants, some of the merchants
- to hang pride flags.
- And so it's kind of a neat thing to have it on my street,
- that I can govern and you know see the parade down that way.
- I begged Michael to move the time back to where it was.
- Because a lot of the merchants kind of bitched about it too.
- Because they would get if it was closer to 5:00
- they'd have a better chance of catching a dinner crowd.
- So you know, they were a little disappointed
- that they boost the slot up a little bit.
- But you know I get it that it's done,
- Michael said it's done for the party.
- And it makes I guess it makes sense.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Aside from the stuff
- that you used to do for the HPA dinners,
- you know, the decor and all that,
- did you get any actively involved in any other gay
- activist community?
- JIMMY CATALANO: No, I couldn't.
- The store was really, really my primary focus.
- And I had a business partner, Kevin,
- but there was like twenty years between the two of us.
- And you have to keep in mind that I started this store out
- of my home on my own.
- And then she just, I wound up with a business partner
- totally by accident, literally totally by accident.
- And so I was the, what's the word you
- want to use, the point person.
- I was the gay guy.
- And I started out with the clientele.
- I mean we opened up on Mother's Day of 1985 with a bang
- because I had spent a year building a clientele out
- of my home.
- So you know, it was she and I and a delivery person
- and we had all we could do to keep up with it.
- And I was still working at a restaurant full time.
- So I'd like do the flower shop and leave the shop at 5:00
- and go work the restaurant from five till whenever the hell
- I got out of there.
- So because I was the point person,
- I mean, we had these pipe dreams of we're
- going to work really hard for ten years
- and then we'll be able to just kind of back off
- and let managers run the place.
- And I'll just come in for random appointments.
- What an asshole I was.
- I mean, it's like, there's no way.
- You can't do it.
- It's just, it's impossible.
- You can't do it.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: You made a name for yourself.
- JIMMY CATALANO: That was it.
- You know, and it was just there was
- no way it was going to happen.
- I mean we had good employees.
- We had a great manager, but it's not their store.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: It was always going to be Jimmy Catalano's.
- JIMMY CATALANO: That was the thing.
- And you know on the random chance
- that she and I were not in the store together,
- you know the next day you'd come in
- and you'd have four, five phone calls.
- Well, I tried talking to your employee,
- but they're impossible.
- Or he was rude to me and he was this or she was that.
- It's like, you just, you can't do it.
- So consequently the store, and to this day,
- I'm working, even though I'm at Kittelbergers
- and not running the business, I'm
- working fifty-five hours a week.
- So there really wasn't tons of opportunity to get involved.
- So I did things in the ways I could, donating flowers.
- It's just, that's the way I was able to help
- and that's the way I've continued to do it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And when HPA had its run, you were--
- JIMMY CATALANO: Very, very involved.
- That was, I mean I just loved that event.
- And I had, not a vested interest in it,
- but I just watched it grow.
- And you know again, keep in mind that one of those events
- was very magical for me because Bruce and I met a week before.
- And it was we were at Ira Shearer's house for dinner
- before that.
- And he told me he loved me a week into our relationship.
- And you know, I was on one of the telephone lines,
- the date line there.
- A friend of mine started it.
- And he said I need you to put an ad on here.
- I need voices on this when he started
- this, this confidential dateline or connection
- I think it was called.
- I said, I don't to be involved in that.
- It's a loser line.
- Nobody's going to call that.
- It's just-- He goes no, no, no.
- Place the ad.
- You don't ever have to answer it.
- I just need voices on there.
- And I have the ability to do a couple different voices.
- So I put on a very hokey, you know, I like to go to movies.
- I like dancing.
- I like this and that.
- And I got a couple of responses.
- So you know, you're listening and it's like Jesus,
- this guy doesn't sound too bad.
- Well, I put an add on that was probably a little bit more--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Forward.
- JIMMY CATALANO: A little more forward.
- And it wasn't like I like to go to movies,
- I like to go dancing.
- It was what I like to do in bed.
- And within thirty-six hours I had twenty messages.
- And it's like, oh my god.
- And again these guys sounded hot.
- And there were a lot of straight ones on there,
- which of course, you know what that's like for us
- to bag a straight person?
- I was having a blast.
- The last thing I wanted to do was get into a relationship.
- And I met Bruce, and it was, I knew I couldn't let him go.
- There was no way.
- We just, we met on September 20th and we haven't been apart,
- I mean outside of business trips that he's had to take,
- we've never been apart in twenty years.
- We just, we clicked and it's just, it's worked.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So in the past forty or so years,
- this community in Rochester has changed.
- What has surprised you the most about its accomplishments?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Wow.
- Man, Evelyn, there is a lot to talk about on that one.
- I think the fact that once again we have become mainstream.
- And again I'm going to use the word I don't like to use,
- but so accepted, that I feel comfortable in telling you
- that 92 percent of our community could care less if you're
- gay or green or if you walk on your hands
- when you're at Wegmans.
- Nobody in my impression here gives a shit.
- It's a live and let live attitude
- and to me it seems like it's getting better every day.
- I wish I knew some of the younger
- crowd a little bit better.
- I would just like to maybe see gay life from their eyes
- and how they're experiencing it, and how different it
- might be because they do have the internet.
- You know, I guess we had our thing.
- We had the bar and the bookstores.
- And now they've got like the internet and gay.com and Adam
- for Adam and Craigslist, and that's
- their mode of hookup I guess.
- So I'd like to see how that is for them.
- I'd like to also just meet the up and coming next generation
- and see where they're going to take us.
- I think that would be really fascinating.
- I don't really have, outside of when
- we do our party for the festival,
- and a random younger gay guy wanders up maybe
- with a couple of friends or whatnot,
- we don't really socialize with any of the younger crowd.
- So I don't know what the workings of that all are.
- On the rare occurrence that we go to Tilt,
- I get to see the crowd and they're a great looking bunch
- of people.
- And they're there for the party like we were back
- in our generation, which I get a kick out of seeing.
- They seem for the most part to have their shit together.
- You know we had a few messes in our day
- that you could always count on being in the corner drooling
- on themselves because they're just so hammered.
- And you still see that.
- But I wish I could meet some of the newer kids
- and get their take on it, see what they seem to think
- and see how they feel about being out and being
- in Rochester and what it's like for them.
- But we've definitely come a long way.
- And I think we're just going to, I
- think we're just going to keep going.
- It's a shame that we lost Bob Duffy to the state.
- Because I think believe it or not
- I think he was a good catalyst for our community.
- I think he had a lot of people enthused about Rochester.
- I think he had his team in city Hall enthused about being there
- and working for him.
- And he was very, very, very welcoming to the gay community.
- And I think that helped tremendously as well.
- You know, not afraid of us one iota
- and you know always in the thick of it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did you ever think in your lifetime marriage
- equality would be a reality?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Never ever, ever did
- I think that that was going to happen.
- I got to be honest with you.
- I didn't think I would see it.
- It's a big, big step, big step.
- We personally have not taken advantage of it.
- We're so overprotected.
- YOU realize Bruce is corporate.
- So we're so overprotected legally
- that it's not an immediate.
- When we did this years ago, when we bought that house
- on Park Avenue we did it so that we'd be covered
- and we did health care proxies and we did ironclad wills,
- that if anybody in my family or anybody in his family
- even raises an eyebrow, they're cut out.
- Period.
- (laughter)
- You know I mean, we've protected ourselves financially
- and stuff like this so nobody is going to be on the street
- if something happens to the other one.
- But I really, really think it's an amazing thing
- that we are finally able to live like everybody else,
- and get the same respect through the covenant of marriage
- that anybody else gets.
- We really do.
- I think it's wonderful.
- EVELYN BAILEY: One last question.
- What are you most proud of?
- JIMMY CATALANO: Oh, my god.
- Boy, Evelyn, that's another one.
- That's very, very hard question.
- I can honestly tell you I don't know
- if there's anything that if there's one particular thing
- that I'm very proud of.
- I can tell you, and I hope this doesn't
- sound like grandstanding or that I'm full of myself,
- but if I walked out that front door
- and got hit by a speeding bus, I have had the best
- life that I think there is.
- I don't think I could go back, with the exception of not
- learning how to play piano, there's nothing
- that I could say, I wish I would have done this.
- My mother used to beg me please, play the piano.
- We'll buy you a piano tomorrow, please
- and they didn't have much.
- We'll buy you a piano tomorrow, please.
- I wanted to play the guitar.
- The Beatles were hot.
- If you'll play the guitar, you'll
- be-- if you play the piano, you'll
- be able to play everything.
- And I didn't want to do it because the piano was
- for sissies.
- That's my only regret.
- They raised me to be a sociable, honest, caring, thoughtful
- person.
- And have I pissed people off along the way?
- I'm sure I've been an asshole to many.
- But for the most part, I have no regrets.
- I have no guilt. I've had a very fortunate life.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, from my own experience
- and from talking to other members of the community,
- you're highly respected.
- JIMMY CATALANO: I work hard to hear that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And you've given back an awful lot
- to this community, not only as Carmen Miranda, but as
- Jimmy Catalano, the florist, as Jimmy Catalano, the friend,
- as Jimmy Catalano, someone who cares, is concerned,
- and continues to be involved in your neighborhood
- in the community.
- And if someone comes and asks, you've never said no.
- JIMMY CATALANO: Yeah, I've never said no.
- You know it's I grew up an only child, no siblings.
- I was always fascinated with that one house.
- And every neighborhood has the one crazy house where
- it's full of family and it's full of people
- and it's full of commotion and it's full of,
- everybody just kind of congregates
- there and gathers there.
- And that house in my neighborhood
- always fascinated me.
- So when I moved out, my first apartment I