Audio Interview, Jo Meleca-Voigt, August 17, 2013
- EVELYN BAILEY: I'm going to begin
- by saying this is August 17, and I'm sitting here
- in Christine and Jo Melecca's home
- to interview Jo about her activism,
- but also to get some background and some history about her.
- So were you born in Rochester?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: I was.
- I grew up in Irondequoit.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And did you go to Irondequoit schools?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: I graduated from Eastridge,
- and then I did my undergraduate work at St. John Fisher.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And when you were growing up,
- was homosexuality a topic?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: It was, but not in a positive way.
- I grew up pretty sheltered when it came to that.
- My family is of Italian-- well, I'm
- a first generation American.
- Both my parents were born in Italy.
- They're both very loyal Italian Catholics,
- and it just wasn't something we discussed.
- And I knew, from a very young age,
- that I was attracted to girls at that time, and now women.
- And so at that point, I didn't know what it was.
- I had didn't know a name for it, because I just thought
- it was something crazy in me.
- And so I didn't really have any exposure to the word
- or the culture-- the existence of other gay people.
- When I was in my teens--
- it was during the time of the Topless Seven that would go
- to the armory and take their shirts off to fight the New
- York law that men could go topless, but women couldn't.
- And I recall watching a news story about it
- and somebody saying something derogatory
- along the lines of, look at all those lesbians--
- something to that term.
- And I knew enough about lesbian to know that it meant women
- who were attracted to women.
- And I remember thinking to myself--
- because I was a teenager at the time,
- and the women were in their thirties and forties,
- which was not attractive to me at the time.
- And I remember looking at that and saying, oh, my God.
- That is not what I am, because I didn't identify with that.
- So I fought it, but I didn't really
- have any idea what it meant.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Culturally-- because I'm Italian, also.
- It was never mentioned in our family.
- It wasn't until I got older, I had the experience as you.
- I didn't have the vocabulary--
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Exactly.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --to name it or identify it.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: And as soon as I had the vocabulary, as soon
- as I met other people in the situation
- and I met other gay people, I came out almost immediately.
- I mean, it really was a matter of--
- and that's why I believe so strongly that education,
- as an educator-- that if we allow younger generations
- to at least know about it, we help
- them to be able to go on their own journey
- so that they can discover.
- Because I probably would have identified differently.
- Well, I know I would've.
- I mean, my route with it was to join
- fundamentalist Christian churches
- and try to pray it out of myself and to be very
- anti-gay and very homophobic.
- And I was fascinated by knowing about other gay people.
- But I also, on the outside, was very vocally
- against gay people.
- And it was a very difficult journey
- for myself to try to balance what I was feeling
- and what I was experiencing with what I was saying
- and what I was being taught to believe.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Outside your family--
- in a school environment, when you were growing up--
- was there any talk about being gay, or was it a guy thing?
- Was it--
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: It was very interesting, because I think,
- as a result of my being so vocal about my Christianity--
- and when I say Christianity, I mean very fundamentalist,
- born again Christianity--
- and I was so vocal about it that I think the people
- in school hesitated to talk to me about anything like that,
- because they thought they would be judged by me.
- Which they would've been, honestly.
- Now, in the age of Facebook and reconnecting
- with a lot of people from high school,
- I went to school with a lot of gay kids.
- And a few of them who were out in high school, but I
- didn't know.
- And I think a lot of that was people
- feared how I would react.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And what years are we talking about?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: The mid to late '80s.
- At the time, Eastridge was seven through twelve.
- so I was there from '83 to '89.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So this was well after Stonewall
- and well after--
- there was no diagnosis in the DSM III
- as to homosexuality being a personality disorder
- and therefore, quote, unquote "treatable."
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: And I was born after Stonewall.
- I was born a few years after.
- And I never knew what Stonewall was until I was in my twenties.
- I came out when I was at graduate school at Ohio State
- University.
- And again, I always loved that phrase-- one
- of my favorite sayings is, coming out is not an event.
- It's a process.
- So the beginning of my process of being vocally out
- was in graduate school at Ohio State.
- And the gay center was called Stonewall, Columbus.
- Well, it's still called that.
- And I remember having some publication from them,
- and I asked them, and I go, what does this mean--
- Stonewall, Columbus?
- And they looked at me like I was insane.
- And I said, I have no-- and they go, you know,
- it's the Stonewall-- and they gave me
- this big history about it.
- And I was fascinated, because I had no idea.
- I had no idea that Stonewall had even happened or existed,
- because I was so sheltered from it that I
- didn't know that there was any kind of gay movement.
- When I moved back to Rochester in the mid-'90s after going
- to graduate school, spending some time in California,
- I moved back to Rochester in the '90s and I remember--
- and I was in San Francisco prior to that.
- And I remember thinking to myself,
- when I knew I was going to move back, my social life is over.
- There are no gay people in Rochester.
- There's no gay community.
- It's over.
- I have to go back to being in the closet.
- And I came back here immediately plugged in
- to the LGBT community, and was thrilled at our history
- and just what an amazing place we really were.
- I had no idea.
- I had no idea.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, when you were out of Rochester,
- were there situations that you heard of or experienced
- in which you were harassed or pointed at?
- And said, she's a lesbian, and felt negated?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Oddly, that only
- happened to me in Rochester.
- I've been very, very fortunate that hasn't
- happened to me often.
- But I can think of two incidences
- when I was a teenager growing up.
- And being involved in the Christian church--
- born again Christian church--
- a few people confronted me about it, wondering if I was gay--
- in a very negative way.
- It wasn't supportive.
- It wasn't, hey, if you are, let's talk about it.
- It was, you better not be.
- But the other was in Rochester shortly
- before SONDA was passed.
- I was a teacher--
- as I am now-- in a public school district right outside
- of Monroe county.
- And I was the best thing since sliced bread
- when I started there.
- And then the director of the department chair
- found out I was gay, and suddenly I
- couldn't do anything right.
- And I was being written up, and I was being harassed,
- and I was put in a situation where I just could not please,
- and eventually I left.
- But I left with the sense that if I hadn't left,
- I would have been gone anyway.
- And so--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Had you gained tenure?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: No, it was only my first year there,
- so I had no protection.
- And there was no SONDA.
- And your first year, it's pretty much--
- we don't really have to give a lot of reason.
- And again, I left.
- But at the same time, it was very damaging to me.
- And I spent many years going to different--
- I went to different school districts--
- and trying to figure out, what do I do about this?
- Am I open about it?
- Am I closeted about it?
- How do I do this?
- And it was very damaging.
- It was just very personally damaging,
- and it was damaging to my profession in the way
- that I couldn't be myself and teach the way that those kids
- needed me to teach.
- And so it was really the beginning of a journey
- to get to the point where now, I am very open about it
- and public about it.
- And I think it's been a positive effect on the students
- that I teach, because I'm just Miss Melecca,
- and I happen to be gay.
- And I think that's very empowering to a lot of them.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- When did you go to Greece?
- When did you start teaching--
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: This is my 12th year, so 2001.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did you choose that--
- well, let me ask you this.
- When you came to Greece, was it your choice?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yes.
- I was in another district after that.
- I was in Hilton for two years, and I left
- Hilton because of budget cuts.
- I mean, it was strictly-- they were
- going to cut me to part time.
- And they didn't offer Italian, and I
- was teaching strictly Spanish, and I wanted to teach Italian.
- So it was absolutely a choice to go to Greece.
- Hilton was wonderful.
- My colleagues in Hilton who--
- my wife still works there, so I'm still in touch with them--
- were nothing but supportive and fantastic.
- I met Christine while teaching there.
- And made the decision, at that point,
- to come out, because I wanted to get
- to know this beautiful woman, and coming out
- was a way to do that.
- So yes, I left Hilton of my own accord and been in Greece.
- I've been out and open.
- EVELYN BAILEY: When you came to Greece, was Tim Mains still--
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: He was not.
- He was not.
- He was in the city here at that point.
- EVELYN BAILEY: He was in the city at that point.
- He was?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yep.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, he's been in the city for a long time.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yeah.
- He had just been in the city a few years
- before I got to Greece.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- Do you have any sense that his already
- being out and open in that district made a difference
- for you?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: I love that this project
- is called Shoulders to Stand On, because everything everyone did
- before us made a difference.
- And Tim has made a huge difference
- in many of our lives.
- And yes, I mean, he made a big difference in the district.
- And I think now the district is very, very open
- and accepting-- from the superintendent down.
- I mean, it's just very accepting.
- And many of those people were not there when Tim was there.
- I think a lot of it is everybody playing a little part
- in being more open.
- It just so happened that the person
- who interviewed and hired me was an openly gay woman.
- So I mean, at that point, for someone
- to be in that high of an administrative position
- and be openly gay was a result of what Tim had done
- and the awareness that he had brought.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Personally, how has that changed your teaching?
- How has that changed your ability
- to relate to your students?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Wow, I don't know
- if we have enough time for that, because there
- are two components to answer that question.
- One is-- as a person who is living an authentic and open
- life and who is doing the things that I
- feel driven to do to leave this world a better place
- than I found it.
- I am a more comfortable teacher.
- I'm a teacher who doesn't worry about being found out.
- I can be myself.
- And teaching in middle school, you've
- got to be your crazy self.
- I mean, you got to be.
- That's how you get kids engaged.
- It's how students learn best.
- I teach languages.
- I teach Italian and Spanish.
- Kids get to choose what language they pick.
- And obviously, if a kid's going to choose Italian,
- they're going to know who their teacher's going to be.
- So in that sense, it's fortunate.
- But I get to be myself, and I get to be the dynamic teacher
- that the kids need.
- And to focus on them and not focus on what I'm hiding,
- or what my issues are.
- But the other piece of that is that I
- found many students who are very respectful and gracious,
- because they understand.
- They've seen Christine and I on television.
- They know our story.
- And they feel like either they have
- gay parents, a gay cousin--
- everybody knows somebody gay.
- And they feel like, wow, she gets it.
- And there's a lot of kids who will eat lunch in my room
- or come and do extra work for me or do whatever
- it is, because they feel comfortable with me
- because they know I'm not going to judge them.
- I actually brought the safe space program.
- The Gay Alliance came and did safe space training
- in my school.
- We were the first middle school they had ever done that in.
- And you walk through our school, and there
- are safe space stickers.
- There are kids who know what it means.
- We have a health teacher who brought
- in kids from the Gay-Straight Alliance at the high school
- to talk to kids.
- It's a very open conversation now.
- That has changed a lot from when I was there.
- It has changed a lot from what I was there.
- EVELYN BAILEY: When you came back to Rochester and town
- this, quote, unquote "gay community"
- that was embracing of you, what was
- your first foray into politics or into political action?
- Or more than just--
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Being a gay person.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --being a gay person?
- Which is a lot to begin with.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Well, it is.
- I mean, I always say that the greatest political act
- we can do is living open lives.
- It was a gradual and eventual thing.
- I started out--
- I'm going to backtrack a little so that.
- When I first came out in the '90s
- was the time that Hawaii had marriage equality
- for about 30 seconds.
- And I remember thinking-- and it was more than thirty seconds,
- I'm being facetious, but.
- I remember thinking, when I heard the news
- story about this, that I never thought
- marriage was a possibility.
- I thought if I was going to come out
- as being gay that I was just going to kiss goodbye
- to the idea of ever being married.
- And that was my first inkling that it was even something
- that people were talking about.
- And people had been talking about it long enough for Hawaii
- to get it spoken about and passed for awhile.
- So it continued to build from there.
- When I met my wife, she was very, very interested
- in American history and politics.
- And I wasn't.
- I just had never--
- growing up Italian-American, my family was in Italy,
- and I used to go to Italy in the summertimes
- to visit my grandmother.
- And I was more involved in European history.
- And when I met Christine, she ignited the idea in me
- that I needed to look at our own country and our own history.
- And then 9/11 happened, and that changed my sense of attachment
- to our country.
- It changed something in me, and I
- think my political involvement started to evolve from there.
- I can tell you the day I got political.
- It was the day that George Bush came on television
- and called for a constitutional amendment to ban marriage,
- or to define marriage as between one man and one woman.
- And I remember it was a breaking news,
- and he had those beady eyes, saying it.
- And I just filled with such rage.
- And I was just so angry that my wonderful, beautiful
- relationship would be used as a political wedge.
- I mean, everything inside of me just said, this is so wrong,
- and something needs to be done about it.
- And we thought about it for a long time.
- And I remember thinking to myself,
- why isn't someone doing this?
- Why isn't someone doing something about this?
- And then I thought, who am I waiting for?
- I know something has to be done.
- I better do it.
- I just need to do it.
- So that was the beginning.
- I started looking up things online.
- I hooked up with the local Democratic Party.
- I went to a campaign--
- EMILY's List was having a campaign school,
- and I went to it and I met a bunch of people.
- And I was in the right place at the right time.
- Greece didn't have a very large presence
- with the Democratic Party, and they
- were looking for somebody who was motivated to do so.
- I had the idea that I would start.
- I figured, at that point, that probably the best
- way to tackle this would be to get lesbians elected
- to political offices, because I didn't feel,
- at that time, that someone--
- I felt, at that time, that the person best
- able to represent us was us.
- That belief has changed, but at that time,
- that's what I thought.
- So I was toying with the idea of starting
- a PAC called the Lesbian Visibility Movement--
- or Project, I believe.
- It was the Lesbian Visibility Project.
- And so I went to the Board of Elections
- and I spoke to Tom Farese, and I met a bunch of people.
- And Harry Bronson was helping me with how to get it set up.
- And as that started to evolve, I became the leader of the Greece
- Dems, and everything just started falling into place.
- And people say to me--
- I remember people saying, name one good thing George W. Bush
- did.
- And I said, he got me involved in politics.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, when you said
- leader of the Greece Democratic Party, the Democratic--
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Committee.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --committee.
- Did you become Chair?
- Did you become-- I mean--
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Leader or chair are interchangeable.
- It depends on the bylaws of each town.
- The town of Greece, at the time, had
- a leader, secretary, treasurer.
- And I was the leader for--
- EVELYN BAILEY: And were you elected to that position?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yeah, yep, I was.
- And we were very successful.
- Before that happened, I actually ran for office.
- I was the first candidate in a decade
- to run as a Democrat for a Greece town office.
- And I knew that I was running in a town that was pretty known
- for its conservative views, and I had some concerns about that.
- And it was all a process of deciding how I wanted to be.
- And I remember Susan Jordan interviewing me,
- and I made the decision.
- I said, I'm going to be the one to come out.
- I'm not going to let the other side out me.
- And Susan interviewed me and did this great interview,
- In the Empty Closet.
- And I remember it showing up in my mailbox
- and my heart sank, because it was in print.
- For the first time, it was out there--
- I'm gay.
- And it's been a process.
- So anyhow, so becoming the leader,
- then, came after that-- came after that campaign.
- And we built the committee, and I
- learned that Greece is filled with wonderful, supportive
- people of the LGBT community.
- I mean, it's almost like we have two polar ends of it.
- So another time I experienced some hatred
- was during that campaign.
- There was definitely a whisper campaign
- and some other things going on that
- was really upsetting to hear.
- But for the most part, people were really supportive,
- and it built a lot in the community.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, I know you were
- involved in marriage equality.
- But were you involved with ESPA before that?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Christine and I were two of the first people
- to get the training for marriage ambassadors-- for Pride Agenda.
- When SONDA first passed, I remember
- going to a town hall meeting about SONDA
- that Pride Agenda had set up.
- And Sandy Frankel was there and Alan van Capelle
- and a bunch of people.
- And Matt was just leaving, and Alan was coming in
- as Executive Director.
- And I met both of them, and they got me on board with the--
- they were just starting to think about doing this marriage
- ambassador thing.
- And so I had been involved with them on that level.
- My primary titles or work that I've done
- has been through-- first, Marriage Equality New York,
- and now Marriage Equality USA.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Marriage Equality USA?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yep, they changed their name.
- Well, they became a national organization.
- EVELYN BAILEY: When you became--
- you were involved with marriage equality in New York
- before the passage of marriage equality in New York?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: I was the Rochester chapter
- leader of Marriage Equality New York for a few years,
- and I was the chapter leader during that Senate vote.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Can you summarize,
- in some way, what the change was between the beginning
- and the end?
- I mean, initially, Marriage Equality New York
- was a coalition of organizations, right?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: No, Marriage Equality New York
- is its own organization.
- The coalition was New Yorkers United for Marriage.
- And about six months before the passage, Pride Agenda,
- Get Equal, Marriage Equality New York,
- other organizations came together--
- HRC-- and they formed New Yorkers United for Marriage.
- That was the coalition.
- But Marriage Equality New York existed
- for, I think, eleven years prior to the passage of marriage.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And was that the organization
- that was particularly involved in focus on OBC and--
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: The New Yorkers United for Marriage was, yes.
- And Marriage Equality New York--
- Rochester chapter-- what we did in New York was-- in Rochester,
- it was a little different than what they did.
- We had this New Yorkers United for Marriage.
- The same organizations that were involved in that
- would meet under the banner of Equality Rochester, which
- Anne Tischer organized.
- We also included some other organizations
- in Equality Rochester that the coalition didn't necessarily
- include.
- So we had our own--
- Equality Rochester was our organization.
- We met a couple times a week.
- It was a beautiful thing to see the organizations working
- together.
- You had representations from the Human Rights Campaign
- that worked in the area, representatives
- from Empire State Pride Agenda, representatives
- from Marriage Equality New York, coming together and just
- working.
- I don't know that I have ever worked so hard on something
- as we did in those final months before that marriage vote.
- And we were focusing, initially, on Senator Roebuck and Senator
- Alesi.
- And then we realized that Senator Roebuck-- and we
- continue to focus.
- We never stopped.
- But we realized that Senator Alesi
- was the one that may have been more attainable, let's say.
- Very, very proud of the work that the coalition
- did around Senator Alesi.
- One of the first things that I did when I came on
- as the Rochester chapter leader was I
- recognized that he wanted to vote yes the time before.
- It was obvious that he wanted to vote yes.
- And that perhaps what we needed to do
- was give him permission to vote yes.
- So I worked very closely with Rochester Republicans and Log
- Cabin Republicans, and people that he
- had a relationship with, to go in and talk to him
- and say, we want you to do this.
- And we support you in doing this.
- And we just did so much around that.
- And the day that he announced that he would be voting yes
- is the first Republican state legislator
- in our country to say that they were supportive of marriage
- equality.
- There was nothing like that.
- And I'm not saying we were directly responsible for it,
- but we certainly tried to make it as comfortable for him as
- possible to be able to do that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, you certainly
- created the environment in which not only could he say that,
- but he would be supported in saying that.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Exactly.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Because those are two different things.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Absolutely.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But what changed in people's mind?
- I mean, yes, Alesi coming out in favor was huge.
- But already, there was a huge movement underway
- across the state to bring that about.
- And it wasn't just political.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Right.
- I had never seen anything like it.
- I'd never seen anything like the energy around that.
- It was amazing.
- I mean, we would go to the public market, the Lilac
- Festival.
- We would go to all these places.
- And, I mean, it was an overwhelming support.
- We had tens of thousands of letters and cards
- of support being sent to senators constantly.
- I mean, we have pictures of four of us walking out
- with boxes of postcards that said, please vote yes.
- Please vote yes-- just postcards,
- but there were boxes of them that we were
- bringing at least once a week.
- And it was amazing.
- The most we got from people was either, I don't support it,
- or I support it but I don't want to put my name on it.
- But those people were very few and far between.
- It was amazing.
- We started out this interview and I said to you
- that living out and openly is the most important advocacy
- that we can do.
- And I believe that it was a perfect storm of people working
- towards-- and the history of making it things like SONDA
- and Tim Mains, and all these things that
- preceded us that made it easier and more comfortable for people
- to live out and openly.
- It's much easier for someone to say,
- I don't support marriage equality.
- I don't support two men or two women being married--
- if they don't know two men or two women who are in
- love with each other.
- Once you see that and you know that, it's almost impossible
- to say that that deserves the recognition,
- it deserves that equality and level footing.
- And I think in New York, we come from a history
- of people who do things outside of their comfort zone,
- who do things because it's the right thing to do.
- And I think we continue that history
- of people living out and openly despite whatever repercussions
- might come.
- And those around us say, I don't see what's wrong with this.
- And I think that was probably the most powerful tool
- in the whole movement--
- was people living out and openly and showing people
- that we're just two people who come home, feed the cats,
- make dinner, and love each other.
- I think that was the biggest piece of it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Were you involved, at all,
- in putting together the private work with the political--
- with the faith communities, with--
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yeah, that was all part of what we did.
- It was a very interesting symbiotic relationship
- of things going on.
- We did weekly, sometimes twice a week
- phone calls with the governor's office.
- And it was a very planned attack across the state of looking at,
- who are the different groups that these senators need
- to hear from to feel comfortable to make this decision?
- And we got very good at-- locally, especially--
- knowing who were the people that could help bring in union
- support and who could bring in faith community support
- and who could--
- I'm telling you, Evelyn, it was an incredible time
- to be involved, because there was nothing like that energy
- that I have ever experienced.
- And whether it came from having a supportive governor,
- it came from having supportive labor unions,
- it came from having supportive churches,
- it came from having supportive organizations like Pride Agenda
- and Marriage Equality New York-- all of those things just
- fell together in a place that made it possible.
- And there's not one person who is solely
- responsible for that victory.
- I mean, you can go back to people like Pat Martinez,
- who just by putting out there and putting everything
- she had out there to cover--
- her wife's medical expenses and suing her employer.
- I mean, that's no small feat--
- suing your employer-- to get her wife's medical expenses
- covered.
- And making a statewide decision that those of us
- married outside of New York would be recognized in New York
- was all part of that path that got people
- thinking, well, wait a second.
- Why am I going to send people outside of New York
- to get married and spend their tourist money and their money,
- and then come in here and reap the benefits?
- It should be a reciprocal--
- I mean, there's a lot of money in the wedding business.
- And we highlighted that, as well, too.
- One of our most successful rallies
- was one right outside of Senator Alesi's office--
- near his office building-- that was
- all about how much money New York
- state was losing by not allowing marriages to be performed here.
- And it was just a bunch of things
- that came together and made it happen.
- A lot of people are responsible for it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So when we began this conversation,
- you mentioned marriage as something you never ever
- expected would happen--
- not only probably in your lifetime, forever.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Right.
- It wasn't even a thought.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So when you look back over those years,
- who are your heroes?
- Who are the people who not only spoke to you,
- but energized you?
- Aside from George W. Bush.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yeah, right.
- You know, that question--
- it actually brings tears to my eyes, because--
- I don't know why, but it does.
- Interestingly, the people who energized me and spoke to me
- were not the people necessarily involved
- in the marriage victories.
- I look at people throughout history--
- and I mean, I have lots of heroes.
- And they all have something in common.
- And that thing they have in common
- is that they were the ones who went out and did things
- because they were right, not because they were convenient.
- They were people who risked everything
- for what they believed in.
- They're people who went out there and said,
- I may never see this come to fruition,
- but it's the right thing to do so I'm going to do it.
- The Susan B. Anthony's, the people
- who powered the Underground Railroad.
- I mean, the unsung people whose names we don't know.
- As a matter of fact, when we were
- getting into the last weeks of the marriage vote, when
- we didn't know when it was going to happen, we were exhausted.
- I mean, we were just exhausted.
- And it was everything we had to do
- to go and get 100 more signatures
- or to go and deliver.
- And I brought in a bunch of people
- who came to our little house, and we
- had a bunch of the people who were the main organizers.
- And we watched Iron Jawed Angels,
- which is the story of women who fought for women's suffrage
- and were jailed--
- not even knowing if the jail time they served
- would have brought to fruition what they were looking for.
- And we watched that movie, and it energized us.
- It was these people who did what they
- had to do because they were moved
- to leave this world a better place than they found it.
- And I think the person who epitomizes that for me,
- the person who I always refer back to--
- I teach my kids about at school, who I always look at--
- is Nelson Mandela.
- To me, he is the epitome of a person who gave everything--
- his freedom, his time watching his children grow, everything--
- to fight something that he felt he just had to do.
- And then, after apartheid was gone
- and after his sacrifice was realized,
- he went back and served the country as its president.
- I mean, he just amazes me.
- He just amazes me.
- So my biggest hero is Nelson Mandela.
- Of course, it thrills me to no end
- that he supports our rights as well.
- But I have to say, my other hero is my wife.
- I mean, I wouldn't do the things I've done if it wasn't for her.
- She allowed me to understand who I truly was,
- and that it was OK to be me.
- And with all my quirks and all the stupid things that I do,
- she loves me for who I am.
- And she supports me in anything that I do.
- And having that unconditional love,
- having that person who makes you better, having
- that relationship where you know--
- I know without a shadow of a doubt that if I come to her
- and say, I've got this crazy idea that we're
- going to make marriage happen in New York
- and I'm going to give twenty-three hours a day to it.
- And she says, OK, honey, what do you need me to do to help you?
- Knowing that you have that and allowing me to be who I am--
- she's my hero every day.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So we have, as a group,
- achieved tremendous liberation.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Mostly.
- EVELYN BAILEY: In many ways.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What's the next frontier?
- What's the next step in this journey?
- Because all the things that we have really
- set our minds and hearts to attaining, we have attained.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Well, we're on the way to attaining.
- We haven't attained it all yet.
- EVELYN BAILEY: No, but what we have chosen to work on
- and to make reality, we have been successful in doing that.
- What do you think is the next step for the community?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: I think it's twofold.
- I think the first is--
- we have to be very careful not to think,
- OK, well New York has marriage and DOMA's gone, so we're done.
- There's a saying that none of us is free until all of us
- is free.
- And the majority of people in this country
- are not able to marry in their state.
- So we need federal marriage.
- We have to.
- It's ridiculous that Christine and I can be married here
- in our state but somebody in Wisconsin can't be.
- I mean, it's just ridiculous.
- So that's our next step, and that's
- why I'm working with Marriage Equality USA
- to see that that happens.
- We have so many obstacles, Evelyn.
- We have transgender brothers and sisters
- who are living in fear, who are unable to get
- the jobs that they deserve and that they
- have the rights and the skill and the ability to obtain.
- We have people who are not living in their true gender
- because their fear that if they do, they will be ostracized--
- or worse, killed.
- And as I said before, my ability to be myself
- has improved my work.
- It's improved my life.
- It has made everything better for me.
- I want to see our trans brothers and sisters
- in that same situation.
- So that's huge.
- We need to work with our youth.
- We've come a long way with youth,
- but the problem is when there are those--
- I mean, when I look at my history and my childhood
- and not even knowing what the word gay meant,
- we've come a really long way.
- But there are those whose families have not
- come along with them, and they have nowhere to live.
- They have nowhere to lay their head down.
- And we need to make sure that that doesn't happen,
- that there's a place for kids.
- We need to look at our older generation.
- I mean, we've got a generation, now, that is--
- they took that risk of being abandoned by their families
- in order to live their lives as openly gay people.
- And now that they're older, some of them
- don't have the family network and support that many of us
- will enjoy in our older years.
- So we have to make sure that there's a community for them.
- There is so much more that we have to do.
- It didn't stop with marriage.
- It was interesting-- the night that marriage
- was passed in New York, we were at equal grounds
- when we watched the vote.
- And I remember-- sometimes Christine
- and I joke that they need to find some other gay couples
- to interview on television.
- And so when they started interviewing people
- that night we said, just go interview some other people.
- There were tons of people there.
- So we were watching the newscast the next day,
- and I remember them interviewing a young couple--
- two young girls.
- They must've been in their early twenties.
- And they asked them, well, what do you think about this moment?
- And their response was, it just came out of nowhere!
- And I remember thinking, no!
- It didn't just come out of nowhere!
- We've been busting our humps making this happen.
- But then immediately, I realized, well,
- that's what we wanted it to be.
- We want the future generations not
- to know what it feels like to be discriminated against.
- We want them to be able to take for granted their freedoms.
- Not to take for granted the history and the people
- who fought for it and what was done for it,
- but I want there to be a time when people say, really?
- Gay people couldn't get married before?
- I want that to happen.
- I don't want it to be something stigmatized or something that's
- a big deal or a big social issue.
- I want it to just be, OK.
- Two people love each other.
- They're consenting adults.
- They should be able to get married.
- I do hope those two young women have joined the fight.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What are you most proud of?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: At the expense of sounding arrogant and proud
- of myself, I look at-- especially doing an interview
- like this--
- I look at the journey from insecure young woman
- who felt the need to spew hate against gay people
- to a woman who sometimes doubts myself, but often can
- look at a situation and say, what
- needs to be done to allow people to live their lives--
- their authentic lives?
- And I see this change that's come about in me,
- through my own personal acceptance,
- through the love of my wife and my family.
- And I'm just really proud of the person I've become.
- And I really don't mean that arrogantly.
- I mean that as, I'm just proud to be able to love myself
- despite my quirks, despite maybe not having the most money
- and maybe not having the best waistline
- and maybe not always doing things the way
- I want them to do.
- But to forgive myself and to say, you're on this journey
- and you're walking the path that you want to be walking.
- And that's what I hope my students can do.
- It's what I hope my nieces and nephews can do.
- And it's what I hope I allow my wife to do.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Were you ever--
- well, you did say that in your previous quote,
- unquote "life," that you spewed rhetoric
- in opposition to being gay.
- I guess what I--
- were you always proud to be who you were?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: No, I was very ashamed of myself.
- I was ashamed that I had these secret crushes on women.
- I was ashamed that while I was having these secret crushes
- on women, I was saying how horrible it
- was for people to be gay.
- And I wasn't public about the rhetoric.
- But certainly, in the circles that I kept, I was vocal.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And internally?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Oh, and internally it was devastating.
- I mean, I've suffered from depression my entire life.
- It was much worse in high school.
- It was much worse as I was denying who I was.
- It got really bad when I first started to come out.
- And I suffered with it for years and years and years.
- And the more I learned to accept myself
- and learned to understand myself and learned
- to take risks and chances for what I believe in,
- the less the depression affects me.
- But no, I didn't like myself very much at all before.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Was there any one experience or event
- that turned you around in that, or was it a series
- of things that happened--
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: You mean the depression piece of it,
- or the--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, being proud.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Oh, yeah.
- I mean, it was a journey, just like everything else.
- But I can't point to a specific event that changed it.
- But I certainly know that there were
- several events that changed it.
- And again, as I said before, being
- married to a person who loves me for who
- I am changes everything.
- Being with a person who says, just be yourself
- and I'm still going to be here, and a person
- who appreciates me and--
- I worship the ground she walks on.
- And I think it's mutual.
- And that certainly helps with your pride.
- But I remember a time, Evelyn--
- I know one of the times that it kind of changed.
- When the New York state court--
- Supreme Court-- voted down marriage in 2006.
- I was working for a candidate.
- I was running a campaign at the time.
- And I was in the office, and we got a phone call
- from the gay line saying, they're
- going to be interviewing people about this court decision.
- Can you come and do this interview?
- I had never been on television before saying I was gay.
- Never been out before.
- I had never been open about it.
- I was worried about teaching.
- I was worried about so much.
- And I said to the person, I said, OK.
- I'll come do the interview.
- And I immediately went in the bathroom and got sick--
- immediately.
- Just absolutely physically sick over the idea
- of being out on television, being out publicly.
- And we did the interview, and it still
- felt horrible watching it.
- But I think after that, I realized
- that it's all out there now.
- I am who I am.
- And the reaction from the community was fantastic.
- People who saw it were supportive.
- And I realized at that point that--
- well, even if people do not like what I have
- to say or like that I'm gay--
- doesn't change my life if they don't like it.
- That was a turning point for me in terms of saying, OK.
- I'm going to be myself, and I'm going to be open,
- and I'm going to be out there.
- I got to tell you, the reactions-- after DOMA
- was overturned and we were at, once again, equal grounds.
- And every TV station was there.
- And they all interviewed us at the same time.
- So our face got on every local TV news show.
- And so, I mean, it wasn't just like we
- were interviewed on one show and the people who
- watched that channel saw us.
- It was-- all the cameras were on us at the same time.
- And for about three days after that, we literally
- would walk out of a store on a sidewalk
- and people would say to us--
- almost bump into us and go-- oh, you're
- the person I just saw on TV yesterday!
- Good job, girls.
- I mean, constantly people saying to us.
- And just the other day, I went to a doctor's appointment--
- and I hadn't been there in several months--
- and the receptionist said, I saw you and your wife on the news.
- You guys were fantastic.
- All that fear, all that worry about being public--
- and it didn't do anything, except eat me up inside.
- So I think all those realizations come together--
- change your pride, change your perception and your--
- EVELYN BAILEY: So what would you say
- to a young lesbian who's just coming
- to realize she is a lesbian?
- What would you tell her?
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: What have I told her?
- I mean, because I've been in that situation before.
- And what I say is, hang on.
- It's going to be rough.
- It's going to be tough.
- You don't know what's coming.
- But I can tell you this--
- it'll be worth it.
- Feel through it.
- Go through it.
- Don't give up.
- As they say, it gets better.
- But it doesn't just get better, it gets worth it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, thank you--
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Thank you.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --very much.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Thank you.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You and Christine have certainly
- contributed a good portion of your lives
- to creating the environment which we now have.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Our entire life together has been about that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And the community owes you a great debt
- of gratitude for that.
- And it also owes you a great debt of gratitude
- for living your life as openly gay women who are married.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: Thank you.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Thank you.
- JO MELECA-VOIGT: And we don't do it for that, Evelyn.
- We don't do it for that.
- We do it because it's just the right thing to do.
- You look at Susan B. Anthony who did it and never saw
- the fruits of her work--
- she just did what she thought was right,
- and she never saw the things happen that she fought for.
- We're just fortunate that we're able to see some of it.
- But thank you, that means a lot.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, thank you.