Audio Interview, Jo Meleca-Voigt, August 17, 2013

  • EVELYN BAILEY: I'm going to begin
  • by saying this is August 17, and I'm sitting here
  • in Christine and Jo Melecca's home
  • to interview Jo about her activism,
  • but also to get some background and some history about her.
  • So were you born in Rochester?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: I was.
  • I grew up in Irondequoit.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And did you go to Irondequoit schools?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: I graduated from Eastridge,
  • and then I did my undergraduate work at St. John Fisher.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And when you were growing up,
  • was homosexuality a topic?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: It was, but not in a positive way.
  • I grew up pretty sheltered when it came to that.
  • My family is of Italian-- well, I'm
  • a first generation American.
  • Both my parents were born in Italy.
  • They're both very loyal Italian Catholics,
  • and it just wasn't something we discussed.
  • And I knew, from a very young age,
  • that I was attracted to girls at that time, and now women.
  • And so at that point, I didn't know what it was.
  • I had didn't know a name for it, because I just thought
  • it was something crazy in me.
  • And so I didn't really have any exposure to the word
  • or the culture-- the existence of other gay people.
  • When I was in my teens--
  • it was during the time of the Topless Seven that would go
  • to the armory and take their shirts off to fight the New
  • York law that men could go topless, but women couldn't.
  • And I recall watching a news story about it
  • and somebody saying something derogatory
  • along the lines of, look at all those lesbians--
  • something to that term.
  • And I knew enough about lesbian to know that it meant women
  • who were attracted to women.
  • And I remember thinking to myself--
  • because I was a teenager at the time,
  • and the women were in their thirties and forties,
  • which was not attractive to me at the time.
  • And I remember looking at that and saying, oh, my God.
  • That is not what I am, because I didn't identify with that.
  • So I fought it, but I didn't really
  • have any idea what it meant.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Culturally-- because I'm Italian, also.
  • It was never mentioned in our family.
  • It wasn't until I got older, I had the experience as you.
  • I didn't have the vocabulary--
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Exactly.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --to name it or identify it.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: And as soon as I had the vocabulary, as soon
  • as I met other people in the situation
  • and I met other gay people, I came out almost immediately.
  • I mean, it really was a matter of--
  • and that's why I believe so strongly that education,
  • as an educator-- that if we allow younger generations
  • to at least know about it, we help
  • them to be able to go on their own journey
  • so that they can discover.
  • Because I probably would have identified differently.
  • Well, I know I would've.
  • I mean, my route with it was to join
  • fundamentalist Christian churches
  • and try to pray it out of myself and to be very
  • anti-gay and very homophobic.
  • And I was fascinated by knowing about other gay people.
  • But I also, on the outside, was very vocally
  • against gay people.
  • And it was a very difficult journey
  • for myself to try to balance what I was feeling
  • and what I was experiencing with what I was saying
  • and what I was being taught to believe.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Outside your family--
  • in a school environment, when you were growing up--
  • was there any talk about being gay, or was it a guy thing?
  • Was it--
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: It was very interesting, because I think,
  • as a result of my being so vocal about my Christianity--
  • and when I say Christianity, I mean very fundamentalist,
  • born again Christianity--
  • and I was so vocal about it that I think the people
  • in school hesitated to talk to me about anything like that,
  • because they thought they would be judged by me.
  • Which they would've been, honestly.
  • Now, in the age of Facebook and reconnecting
  • with a lot of people from high school,
  • I went to school with a lot of gay kids.
  • And a few of them who were out in high school, but I
  • didn't know.
  • And I think a lot of that was people
  • feared how I would react.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And what years are we talking about?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: The mid to late '80s.
  • At the time, Eastridge was seven through twelve.
  • so I was there from '83 to '89.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So this was well after Stonewall
  • and well after--
  • there was no diagnosis in the DSM III
  • as to homosexuality being a personality disorder
  • and therefore, quote, unquote "treatable."
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: And I was born after Stonewall.
  • I was born a few years after.
  • And I never knew what Stonewall was until I was in my twenties.
  • I came out when I was at graduate school at Ohio State
  • University.
  • And again, I always loved that phrase-- one
  • of my favorite sayings is, coming out is not an event.
  • It's a process.
  • So the beginning of my process of being vocally out
  • was in graduate school at Ohio State.
  • And the gay center was called Stonewall, Columbus.
  • Well, it's still called that.
  • And I remember having some publication from them,
  • and I asked them, and I go, what does this mean--
  • Stonewall, Columbus?
  • And they looked at me like I was insane.
  • And I said, I have no-- and they go, you know,
  • it's the Stonewall-- and they gave me
  • this big history about it.
  • And I was fascinated, because I had no idea.
  • I had no idea that Stonewall had even happened or existed,
  • because I was so sheltered from it that I
  • didn't know that there was any kind of gay movement.
  • When I moved back to Rochester in the mid-'90s after going
  • to graduate school, spending some time in California,
  • I moved back to Rochester in the '90s and I remember--
  • and I was in San Francisco prior to that.
  • And I remember thinking to myself,
  • when I knew I was going to move back, my social life is over.
  • There are no gay people in Rochester.
  • There's no gay community.
  • It's over.
  • I have to go back to being in the closet.
  • And I came back here immediately plugged in
  • to the LGBT community, and was thrilled at our history
  • and just what an amazing place we really were.
  • I had no idea.
  • I had no idea.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now, when you were out of Rochester,
  • were there situations that you heard of or experienced
  • in which you were harassed or pointed at?
  • And said, she's a lesbian, and felt negated?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Oddly, that only
  • happened to me in Rochester.
  • I've been very, very fortunate that hasn't
  • happened to me often.
  • But I can think of two incidences
  • when I was a teenager growing up.
  • And being involved in the Christian church--
  • born again Christian church--
  • a few people confronted me about it, wondering if I was gay--
  • in a very negative way.
  • It wasn't supportive.
  • It wasn't, hey, if you are, let's talk about it.
  • It was, you better not be.
  • But the other was in Rochester shortly
  • before SONDA was passed.
  • I was a teacher--
  • as I am now-- in a public school district right outside
  • of Monroe county.
  • And I was the best thing since sliced bread
  • when I started there.
  • And then the director of the department chair
  • found out I was gay, and suddenly I
  • couldn't do anything right.
  • And I was being written up, and I was being harassed,
  • and I was put in a situation where I just could not please,
  • and eventually I left.
  • But I left with the sense that if I hadn't left,
  • I would have been gone anyway.
  • And so--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Had you gained tenure?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: No, it was only my first year there,
  • so I had no protection.
  • And there was no SONDA.
  • And your first year, it's pretty much--
  • we don't really have to give a lot of reason.
  • And again, I left.
  • But at the same time, it was very damaging to me.
  • And I spent many years going to different--
  • I went to different school districts--
  • and trying to figure out, what do I do about this?
  • Am I open about it?
  • Am I closeted about it?
  • How do I do this?
  • And it was very damaging.
  • It was just very personally damaging,
  • and it was damaging to my profession in the way
  • that I couldn't be myself and teach the way that those kids
  • needed me to teach.
  • And so it was really the beginning of a journey
  • to get to the point where now, I am very open about it
  • and public about it.
  • And I think it's been a positive effect on the students
  • that I teach, because I'm just Miss Melecca,
  • and I happen to be gay.
  • And I think that's very empowering to a lot of them.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • When did you go to Greece?
  • When did you start teaching--
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: This is my 12th year, so 2001.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Did you choose that--
  • well, let me ask you this.
  • When you came to Greece, was it your choice?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yes.
  • I was in another district after that.
  • I was in Hilton for two years, and I left
  • Hilton because of budget cuts.
  • I mean, it was strictly-- they were
  • going to cut me to part time.
  • And they didn't offer Italian, and I
  • was teaching strictly Spanish, and I wanted to teach Italian.
  • So it was absolutely a choice to go to Greece.
  • Hilton was wonderful.
  • My colleagues in Hilton who--
  • my wife still works there, so I'm still in touch with them--
  • were nothing but supportive and fantastic.
  • I met Christine while teaching there.
  • And made the decision, at that point,
  • to come out, because I wanted to get
  • to know this beautiful woman, and coming out
  • was a way to do that.
  • So yes, I left Hilton of my own accord and been in Greece.
  • I've been out and open.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: When you came to Greece, was Tim Mains still--
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: He was not.
  • He was not.
  • He was in the city here at that point.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: He was in the city at that point.
  • He was?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yep.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, he's been in the city for a long time.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yeah.
  • He had just been in the city a few years
  • before I got to Greece.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • Do you have any sense that his already
  • being out and open in that district made a difference
  • for you?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: I love that this project
  • is called Shoulders to Stand On, because everything everyone did
  • before us made a difference.
  • And Tim has made a huge difference
  • in many of our lives.
  • And yes, I mean, he made a big difference in the district.
  • And I think now the district is very, very open
  • and accepting-- from the superintendent down.
  • I mean, it's just very accepting.
  • And many of those people were not there when Tim was there.
  • I think a lot of it is everybody playing a little part
  • in being more open.
  • It just so happened that the person
  • who interviewed and hired me was an openly gay woman.
  • So I mean, at that point, for someone
  • to be in that high of an administrative position
  • and be openly gay was a result of what Tim had done
  • and the awareness that he had brought.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Personally, how has that changed your teaching?
  • How has that changed your ability
  • to relate to your students?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Wow, I don't know
  • if we have enough time for that, because there
  • are two components to answer that question.
  • One is-- as a person who is living an authentic and open
  • life and who is doing the things that I
  • feel driven to do to leave this world a better place
  • than I found it.
  • I am a more comfortable teacher.
  • I'm a teacher who doesn't worry about being found out.
  • I can be myself.
  • And teaching in middle school, you've
  • got to be your crazy self.
  • I mean, you got to be.
  • That's how you get kids engaged.
  • It's how students learn best.
  • I teach languages.
  • I teach Italian and Spanish.
  • Kids get to choose what language they pick.
  • And obviously, if a kid's going to choose Italian,
  • they're going to know who their teacher's going to be.
  • So in that sense, it's fortunate.
  • But I get to be myself, and I get to be the dynamic teacher
  • that the kids need.
  • And to focus on them and not focus on what I'm hiding,
  • or what my issues are.
  • But the other piece of that is that I
  • found many students who are very respectful and gracious,
  • because they understand.
  • They've seen Christine and I on television.
  • They know our story.
  • And they feel like either they have
  • gay parents, a gay cousin--
  • everybody knows somebody gay.
  • And they feel like, wow, she gets it.
  • And there's a lot of kids who will eat lunch in my room
  • or come and do extra work for me or do whatever
  • it is, because they feel comfortable with me
  • because they know I'm not going to judge them.
  • I actually brought the safe space program.
  • The Gay Alliance came and did safe space training
  • in my school.
  • We were the first middle school they had ever done that in.
  • And you walk through our school, and there
  • are safe space stickers.
  • There are kids who know what it means.
  • We have a health teacher who brought
  • in kids from the Gay-Straight Alliance at the high school
  • to talk to kids.
  • It's a very open conversation now.
  • That has changed a lot from when I was there.
  • It has changed a lot from what I was there.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: When you came back to Rochester and town
  • this, quote, unquote "gay community"
  • that was embracing of you, what was
  • your first foray into politics or into political action?
  • Or more than just--
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Being a gay person.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --being a gay person?
  • Which is a lot to begin with.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Well, it is.
  • I mean, I always say that the greatest political act
  • we can do is living open lives.
  • It was a gradual and eventual thing.
  • I started out--
  • I'm going to backtrack a little so that.
  • When I first came out in the '90s
  • was the time that Hawaii had marriage equality
  • for about 30 seconds.
  • And I remember thinking-- and it was more than thirty seconds,
  • I'm being facetious, but.
  • I remember thinking, when I heard the news
  • story about this, that I never thought
  • marriage was a possibility.
  • I thought if I was going to come out
  • as being gay that I was just going to kiss goodbye
  • to the idea of ever being married.
  • And that was my first inkling that it was even something
  • that people were talking about.
  • And people had been talking about it long enough for Hawaii
  • to get it spoken about and passed for awhile.
  • So it continued to build from there.
  • When I met my wife, she was very, very interested
  • in American history and politics.
  • And I wasn't.
  • I just had never--
  • growing up Italian-American, my family was in Italy,
  • and I used to go to Italy in the summertimes
  • to visit my grandmother.
  • And I was more involved in European history.
  • And when I met Christine, she ignited the idea in me
  • that I needed to look at our own country and our own history.
  • And then 9/11 happened, and that changed my sense of attachment
  • to our country.
  • It changed something in me, and I
  • think my political involvement started to evolve from there.
  • I can tell you the day I got political.
  • It was the day that George Bush came on television
  • and called for a constitutional amendment to ban marriage,
  • or to define marriage as between one man and one woman.
  • And I remember it was a breaking news,
  • and he had those beady eyes, saying it.
  • And I just filled with such rage.
  • And I was just so angry that my wonderful, beautiful
  • relationship would be used as a political wedge.
  • I mean, everything inside of me just said, this is so wrong,
  • and something needs to be done about it.
  • And we thought about it for a long time.
  • And I remember thinking to myself,
  • why isn't someone doing this?
  • Why isn't someone doing something about this?
  • And then I thought, who am I waiting for?
  • I know something has to be done.
  • I better do it.
  • I just need to do it.
  • So that was the beginning.
  • I started looking up things online.
  • I hooked up with the local Democratic Party.
  • I went to a campaign--
  • EMILY's List was having a campaign school,
  • and I went to it and I met a bunch of people.
  • And I was in the right place at the right time.
  • Greece didn't have a very large presence
  • with the Democratic Party, and they
  • were looking for somebody who was motivated to do so.
  • I had the idea that I would start.
  • I figured, at that point, that probably the best
  • way to tackle this would be to get lesbians elected
  • to political offices, because I didn't feel,
  • at that time, that someone--
  • I felt, at that time, that the person best
  • able to represent us was us.
  • That belief has changed, but at that time,
  • that's what I thought.
  • So I was toying with the idea of starting
  • a PAC called the Lesbian Visibility Movement--
  • or Project, I believe.
  • It was the Lesbian Visibility Project.
  • And so I went to the Board of Elections
  • and I spoke to Tom Farese, and I met a bunch of people.
  • And Harry Bronson was helping me with how to get it set up.
  • And as that started to evolve, I became the leader of the Greece
  • Dems, and everything just started falling into place.
  • And people say to me--
  • I remember people saying, name one good thing George W. Bush
  • did.
  • And I said, he got me involved in politics.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now, when you said
  • leader of the Greece Democratic Party, the Democratic--
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Committee.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --committee.
  • Did you become Chair?
  • Did you become-- I mean--
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Leader or chair are interchangeable.
  • It depends on the bylaws of each town.
  • The town of Greece, at the time, had
  • a leader, secretary, treasurer.
  • And I was the leader for--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And were you elected to that position?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yeah, yep, I was.
  • And we were very successful.
  • Before that happened, I actually ran for office.
  • I was the first candidate in a decade
  • to run as a Democrat for a Greece town office.
  • And I knew that I was running in a town that was pretty known
  • for its conservative views, and I had some concerns about that.
  • And it was all a process of deciding how I wanted to be.
  • And I remember Susan Jordan interviewing me,
  • and I made the decision.
  • I said, I'm going to be the one to come out.
  • I'm not going to let the other side out me.
  • And Susan interviewed me and did this great interview,
  • In the Empty Closet.
  • And I remember it showing up in my mailbox
  • and my heart sank, because it was in print.
  • For the first time, it was out there--
  • I'm gay.
  • And it's been a process.
  • So anyhow, so becoming the leader,
  • then, came after that-- came after that campaign.
  • And we built the committee, and I
  • learned that Greece is filled with wonderful, supportive
  • people of the LGBT community.
  • I mean, it's almost like we have two polar ends of it.
  • So another time I experienced some hatred
  • was during that campaign.
  • There was definitely a whisper campaign
  • and some other things going on that
  • was really upsetting to hear.
  • But for the most part, people were really supportive,
  • and it built a lot in the community.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now, I know you were
  • involved in marriage equality.
  • But were you involved with ESPA before that?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Christine and I were two of the first people
  • to get the training for marriage ambassadors-- for Pride Agenda.
  • When SONDA first passed, I remember
  • going to a town hall meeting about SONDA
  • that Pride Agenda had set up.
  • And Sandy Frankel was there and Alan van Capelle
  • and a bunch of people.
  • And Matt was just leaving, and Alan was coming in
  • as Executive Director.
  • And I met both of them, and they got me on board with the--
  • they were just starting to think about doing this marriage
  • ambassador thing.
  • And so I had been involved with them on that level.
  • My primary titles or work that I've done
  • has been through-- first, Marriage Equality New York,
  • and now Marriage Equality USA.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Marriage Equality USA?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yep, they changed their name.
  • Well, they became a national organization.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: When you became--
  • you were involved with marriage equality in New York
  • before the passage of marriage equality in New York?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: I was the Rochester chapter
  • leader of Marriage Equality New York for a few years,
  • and I was the chapter leader during that Senate vote.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Can you summarize,
  • in some way, what the change was between the beginning
  • and the end?
  • I mean, initially, Marriage Equality New York
  • was a coalition of organizations, right?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: No, Marriage Equality New York
  • is its own organization.
  • The coalition was New Yorkers United for Marriage.
  • And about six months before the passage, Pride Agenda,
  • Get Equal, Marriage Equality New York,
  • other organizations came together--
  • HRC-- and they formed New Yorkers United for Marriage.
  • That was the coalition.
  • But Marriage Equality New York existed
  • for, I think, eleven years prior to the passage of marriage.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And was that the organization
  • that was particularly involved in focus on OBC and--
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: The New Yorkers United for Marriage was, yes.
  • And Marriage Equality New York--
  • Rochester chapter-- what we did in New York was-- in Rochester,
  • it was a little different than what they did.
  • We had this New Yorkers United for Marriage.
  • The same organizations that were involved in that
  • would meet under the banner of Equality Rochester, which
  • Anne Tischer organized.
  • We also included some other organizations
  • in Equality Rochester that the coalition didn't necessarily
  • include.
  • So we had our own--
  • Equality Rochester was our organization.
  • We met a couple times a week.
  • It was a beautiful thing to see the organizations working
  • together.
  • You had representations from the Human Rights Campaign
  • that worked in the area, representatives
  • from Empire State Pride Agenda, representatives
  • from Marriage Equality New York, coming together and just
  • working.
  • I don't know that I have ever worked so hard on something
  • as we did in those final months before that marriage vote.
  • And we were focusing, initially, on Senator Roebuck and Senator
  • Alesi.
  • And then we realized that Senator Roebuck-- and we
  • continue to focus.
  • We never stopped.
  • But we realized that Senator Alesi
  • was the one that may have been more attainable, let's say.
  • Very, very proud of the work that the coalition
  • did around Senator Alesi.
  • One of the first things that I did when I came on
  • as the Rochester chapter leader was I
  • recognized that he wanted to vote yes the time before.
  • It was obvious that he wanted to vote yes.
  • And that perhaps what we needed to do
  • was give him permission to vote yes.
  • So I worked very closely with Rochester Republicans and Log
  • Cabin Republicans, and people that he
  • had a relationship with, to go in and talk to him
  • and say, we want you to do this.
  • And we support you in doing this.
  • And we just did so much around that.
  • And the day that he announced that he would be voting yes
  • is the first Republican state legislator
  • in our country to say that they were supportive of marriage
  • equality.
  • There was nothing like that.
  • And I'm not saying we were directly responsible for it,
  • but we certainly tried to make it as comfortable for him as
  • possible to be able to do that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, you certainly
  • created the environment in which not only could he say that,
  • but he would be supported in saying that.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Exactly.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Because those are two different things.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Absolutely.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But what changed in people's mind?
  • I mean, yes, Alesi coming out in favor was huge.
  • But already, there was a huge movement underway
  • across the state to bring that about.
  • And it wasn't just political.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Right.
  • I had never seen anything like it.
  • I'd never seen anything like the energy around that.
  • It was amazing.
  • I mean, we would go to the public market, the Lilac
  • Festival.
  • We would go to all these places.
  • And, I mean, it was an overwhelming support.
  • We had tens of thousands of letters and cards
  • of support being sent to senators constantly.
  • I mean, we have pictures of four of us walking out
  • with boxes of postcards that said, please vote yes.
  • Please vote yes-- just postcards,
  • but there were boxes of them that we were
  • bringing at least once a week.
  • And it was amazing.
  • The most we got from people was either, I don't support it,
  • or I support it but I don't want to put my name on it.
  • But those people were very few and far between.
  • It was amazing.
  • We started out this interview and I said to you
  • that living out and openly is the most important advocacy
  • that we can do.
  • And I believe that it was a perfect storm of people working
  • towards-- and the history of making it things like SONDA
  • and Tim Mains, and all these things that
  • preceded us that made it easier and more comfortable for people
  • to live out and openly.
  • It's much easier for someone to say,
  • I don't support marriage equality.
  • I don't support two men or two women being married--
  • if they don't know two men or two women who are in
  • love with each other.
  • Once you see that and you know that, it's almost impossible
  • to say that that deserves the recognition,
  • it deserves that equality and level footing.
  • And I think in New York, we come from a history
  • of people who do things outside of their comfort zone,
  • who do things because it's the right thing to do.
  • And I think we continue that history
  • of people living out and openly despite whatever repercussions
  • might come.
  • And those around us say, I don't see what's wrong with this.
  • And I think that was probably the most powerful tool
  • in the whole movement--
  • was people living out and openly and showing people
  • that we're just two people who come home, feed the cats,
  • make dinner, and love each other.
  • I think that was the biggest piece of it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were you involved, at all,
  • in putting together the private work with the political--
  • with the faith communities, with--
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yeah, that was all part of what we did.
  • It was a very interesting symbiotic relationship
  • of things going on.
  • We did weekly, sometimes twice a week
  • phone calls with the governor's office.
  • And it was a very planned attack across the state of looking at,
  • who are the different groups that these senators need
  • to hear from to feel comfortable to make this decision?
  • And we got very good at-- locally, especially--
  • knowing who were the people that could help bring in union
  • support and who could bring in faith community support
  • and who could--
  • I'm telling you, Evelyn, it was an incredible time
  • to be involved, because there was nothing like that energy
  • that I have ever experienced.
  • And whether it came from having a supportive governor,
  • it came from having supportive labor unions,
  • it came from having supportive churches,
  • it came from having supportive organizations like Pride Agenda
  • and Marriage Equality New York-- all of those things just
  • fell together in a place that made it possible.
  • And there's not one person who is solely
  • responsible for that victory.
  • I mean, you can go back to people like Pat Martinez,
  • who just by putting out there and putting everything
  • she had out there to cover--
  • her wife's medical expenses and suing her employer.
  • I mean, that's no small feat--
  • suing your employer-- to get her wife's medical expenses
  • covered.
  • And making a statewide decision that those of us
  • married outside of New York would be recognized in New York
  • was all part of that path that got people
  • thinking, well, wait a second.
  • Why am I going to send people outside of New York
  • to get married and spend their tourist money and their money,
  • and then come in here and reap the benefits?
  • It should be a reciprocal--
  • I mean, there's a lot of money in the wedding business.
  • And we highlighted that, as well, too.
  • One of our most successful rallies
  • was one right outside of Senator Alesi's office--
  • near his office building-- that was
  • all about how much money New York
  • state was losing by not allowing marriages to be performed here.
  • And it was just a bunch of things
  • that came together and made it happen.
  • A lot of people are responsible for it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So when we began this conversation,
  • you mentioned marriage as something you never ever
  • expected would happen--
  • not only probably in your lifetime, forever.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Right.
  • It wasn't even a thought.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So when you look back over those years,
  • who are your heroes?
  • Who are the people who not only spoke to you,
  • but energized you?
  • Aside from George W. Bush.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yeah, right.
  • You know, that question--
  • it actually brings tears to my eyes, because--
  • I don't know why, but it does.
  • Interestingly, the people who energized me and spoke to me
  • were not the people necessarily involved
  • in the marriage victories.
  • I look at people throughout history--
  • and I mean, I have lots of heroes.
  • And they all have something in common.
  • And that thing they have in common
  • is that they were the ones who went out and did things
  • because they were right, not because they were convenient.
  • They were people who risked everything
  • for what they believed in.
  • They're people who went out there and said,
  • I may never see this come to fruition,
  • but it's the right thing to do so I'm going to do it.
  • The Susan B. Anthony's, the people
  • who powered the Underground Railroad.
  • I mean, the unsung people whose names we don't know.
  • As a matter of fact, when we were
  • getting into the last weeks of the marriage vote, when
  • we didn't know when it was going to happen, we were exhausted.
  • I mean, we were just exhausted.
  • And it was everything we had to do
  • to go and get 100 more signatures
  • or to go and deliver.
  • And I brought in a bunch of people
  • who came to our little house, and we
  • had a bunch of the people who were the main organizers.
  • And we watched Iron Jawed Angels,
  • which is the story of women who fought for women's suffrage
  • and were jailed--
  • not even knowing if the jail time they served
  • would have brought to fruition what they were looking for.
  • And we watched that movie, and it energized us.
  • It was these people who did what they
  • had to do because they were moved
  • to leave this world a better place than they found it.
  • And I think the person who epitomizes that for me,
  • the person who I always refer back to--
  • I teach my kids about at school, who I always look at--
  • is Nelson Mandela.
  • To me, he is the epitome of a person who gave everything--
  • his freedom, his time watching his children grow, everything--
  • to fight something that he felt he just had to do.
  • And then, after apartheid was gone
  • and after his sacrifice was realized,
  • he went back and served the country as its president.
  • I mean, he just amazes me.
  • He just amazes me.
  • So my biggest hero is Nelson Mandela.
  • Of course, it thrills me to no end
  • that he supports our rights as well.
  • But I have to say, my other hero is my wife.
  • I mean, I wouldn't do the things I've done if it wasn't for her.
  • She allowed me to understand who I truly was,
  • and that it was OK to be me.
  • And with all my quirks and all the stupid things that I do,
  • she loves me for who I am.
  • And she supports me in anything that I do.
  • And having that unconditional love,
  • having that person who makes you better, having
  • that relationship where you know--
  • I know without a shadow of a doubt that if I come to her
  • and say, I've got this crazy idea that we're
  • going to make marriage happen in New York
  • and I'm going to give twenty-three hours a day to it.
  • And she says, OK, honey, what do you need me to do to help you?
  • Knowing that you have that and allowing me to be who I am--
  • she's my hero every day.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So we have, as a group,
  • achieved tremendous liberation.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Mostly.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: In many ways.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What's the next frontier?
  • What's the next step in this journey?
  • Because all the things that we have really
  • set our minds and hearts to attaining, we have attained.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Well, we're on the way to attaining.
  • We haven't attained it all yet.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: No, but what we have chosen to work on
  • and to make reality, we have been successful in doing that.
  • What do you think is the next step for the community?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: I think it's twofold.
  • I think the first is--
  • we have to be very careful not to think,
  • OK, well New York has marriage and DOMA's gone, so we're done.
  • There's a saying that none of us is free until all of us
  • is free.
  • And the majority of people in this country
  • are not able to marry in their state.
  • So we need federal marriage.
  • We have to.
  • It's ridiculous that Christine and I can be married here
  • in our state but somebody in Wisconsin can't be.
  • I mean, it's just ridiculous.
  • So that's our next step, and that's
  • why I'm working with Marriage Equality USA
  • to see that that happens.
  • We have so many obstacles, Evelyn.
  • We have transgender brothers and sisters
  • who are living in fear, who are unable to get
  • the jobs that they deserve and that they
  • have the rights and the skill and the ability to obtain.
  • We have people who are not living in their true gender
  • because their fear that if they do, they will be ostracized--
  • or worse, killed.
  • And as I said before, my ability to be myself
  • has improved my work.
  • It's improved my life.
  • It has made everything better for me.
  • I want to see our trans brothers and sisters
  • in that same situation.
  • So that's huge.
  • We need to work with our youth.
  • We've come a long way with youth,
  • but the problem is when there are those--
  • I mean, when I look at my history and my childhood
  • and not even knowing what the word gay meant,
  • we've come a really long way.
  • But there are those whose families have not
  • come along with them, and they have nowhere to live.
  • They have nowhere to lay their head down.
  • And we need to make sure that that doesn't happen,
  • that there's a place for kids.
  • We need to look at our older generation.
  • I mean, we've got a generation, now, that is--
  • they took that risk of being abandoned by their families
  • in order to live their lives as openly gay people.
  • And now that they're older, some of them
  • don't have the family network and support that many of us
  • will enjoy in our older years.
  • So we have to make sure that there's a community for them.
  • There is so much more that we have to do.
  • It didn't stop with marriage.
  • It was interesting-- the night that marriage
  • was passed in New York, we were at equal grounds
  • when we watched the vote.
  • And I remember-- sometimes Christine
  • and I joke that they need to find some other gay couples
  • to interview on television.
  • And so when they started interviewing people
  • that night we said, just go interview some other people.
  • There were tons of people there.
  • So we were watching the newscast the next day,
  • and I remember them interviewing a young couple--
  • two young girls.
  • They must've been in their early twenties.
  • And they asked them, well, what do you think about this moment?
  • And their response was, it just came out of nowhere!
  • And I remember thinking, no!
  • It didn't just come out of nowhere!
  • We've been busting our humps making this happen.
  • But then immediately, I realized, well,
  • that's what we wanted it to be.
  • We want the future generations not
  • to know what it feels like to be discriminated against.
  • We want them to be able to take for granted their freedoms.
  • Not to take for granted the history and the people
  • who fought for it and what was done for it,
  • but I want there to be a time when people say, really?
  • Gay people couldn't get married before?
  • I want that to happen.
  • I don't want it to be something stigmatized or something that's
  • a big deal or a big social issue.
  • I want it to just be, OK.
  • Two people love each other.
  • They're consenting adults.
  • They should be able to get married.
  • I do hope those two young women have joined the fight.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What are you most proud of?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: At the expense of sounding arrogant and proud
  • of myself, I look at-- especially doing an interview
  • like this--
  • I look at the journey from insecure young woman
  • who felt the need to spew hate against gay people
  • to a woman who sometimes doubts myself, but often can
  • look at a situation and say, what
  • needs to be done to allow people to live their lives--
  • their authentic lives?
  • And I see this change that's come about in me,
  • through my own personal acceptance,
  • through the love of my wife and my family.
  • And I'm just really proud of the person I've become.
  • And I really don't mean that arrogantly.
  • I mean that as, I'm just proud to be able to love myself
  • despite my quirks, despite maybe not having the most money
  • and maybe not having the best waistline
  • and maybe not always doing things the way
  • I want them to do.
  • But to forgive myself and to say, you're on this journey
  • and you're walking the path that you want to be walking.
  • And that's what I hope my students can do.
  • It's what I hope my nieces and nephews can do.
  • And it's what I hope I allow my wife to do.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were you ever--
  • well, you did say that in your previous quote,
  • unquote "life," that you spewed rhetoric
  • in opposition to being gay.
  • I guess what I--
  • were you always proud to be who you were?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: No, I was very ashamed of myself.
  • I was ashamed that I had these secret crushes on women.
  • I was ashamed that while I was having these secret crushes
  • on women, I was saying how horrible it
  • was for people to be gay.
  • And I wasn't public about the rhetoric.
  • But certainly, in the circles that I kept, I was vocal.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And internally?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Oh, and internally it was devastating.
  • I mean, I've suffered from depression my entire life.
  • It was much worse in high school.
  • It was much worse as I was denying who I was.
  • It got really bad when I first started to come out.
  • And I suffered with it for years and years and years.
  • And the more I learned to accept myself
  • and learned to understand myself and learned
  • to take risks and chances for what I believe in,
  • the less the depression affects me.
  • But no, I didn't like myself very much at all before.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Was there any one experience or event
  • that turned you around in that, or was it a series
  • of things that happened--
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: You mean the depression piece of it,
  • or the--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, being proud.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Oh, yeah.
  • I mean, it was a journey, just like everything else.
  • But I can't point to a specific event that changed it.
  • But I certainly know that there were
  • several events that changed it.
  • And again, as I said before, being
  • married to a person who loves me for who
  • I am changes everything.
  • Being with a person who says, just be yourself
  • and I'm still going to be here, and a person
  • who appreciates me and--
  • I worship the ground she walks on.
  • And I think it's mutual.
  • And that certainly helps with your pride.
  • But I remember a time, Evelyn--
  • I know one of the times that it kind of changed.
  • When the New York state court--
  • Supreme Court-- voted down marriage in 2006.
  • I was working for a candidate.
  • I was running a campaign at the time.
  • And I was in the office, and we got a phone call
  • from the gay line saying, they're
  • going to be interviewing people about this court decision.
  • Can you come and do this interview?
  • I had never been on television before saying I was gay.
  • Never been out before.
  • I had never been open about it.
  • I was worried about teaching.
  • I was worried about so much.
  • And I said to the person, I said, OK.
  • I'll come do the interview.
  • And I immediately went in the bathroom and got sick--
  • immediately.
  • Just absolutely physically sick over the idea
  • of being out on television, being out publicly.
  • And we did the interview, and it still
  • felt horrible watching it.
  • But I think after that, I realized
  • that it's all out there now.
  • I am who I am.
  • And the reaction from the community was fantastic.
  • People who saw it were supportive.
  • And I realized at that point that--
  • well, even if people do not like what I have
  • to say or like that I'm gay--
  • doesn't change my life if they don't like it.
  • That was a turning point for me in terms of saying, OK.
  • I'm going to be myself, and I'm going to be open,
  • and I'm going to be out there.
  • I got to tell you, the reactions-- after DOMA
  • was overturned and we were at, once again, equal grounds.
  • And every TV station was there.
  • And they all interviewed us at the same time.
  • So our face got on every local TV news show.
  • And so, I mean, it wasn't just like we
  • were interviewed on one show and the people who
  • watched that channel saw us.
  • It was-- all the cameras were on us at the same time.
  • And for about three days after that, we literally
  • would walk out of a store on a sidewalk
  • and people would say to us--
  • almost bump into us and go-- oh, you're
  • the person I just saw on TV yesterday!
  • Good job, girls.
  • I mean, constantly people saying to us.
  • And just the other day, I went to a doctor's appointment--
  • and I hadn't been there in several months--
  • and the receptionist said, I saw you and your wife on the news.
  • You guys were fantastic.
  • All that fear, all that worry about being public--
  • and it didn't do anything, except eat me up inside.
  • So I think all those realizations come together--
  • change your pride, change your perception and your--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So what would you say
  • to a young lesbian who's just coming
  • to realize she is a lesbian?
  • What would you tell her?
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: What have I told her?
  • I mean, because I've been in that situation before.
  • And what I say is, hang on.
  • It's going to be rough.
  • It's going to be tough.
  • You don't know what's coming.
  • But I can tell you this--
  • it'll be worth it.
  • Feel through it.
  • Go through it.
  • Don't give up.
  • As they say, it gets better.
  • But it doesn't just get better, it gets worth it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, thank you--
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Thank you.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --very much.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Thank you.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You and Christine have certainly
  • contributed a good portion of your lives
  • to creating the environment which we now have.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Our entire life together has been about that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And the community owes you a great debt
  • of gratitude for that.
  • And it also owes you a great debt of gratitude
  • for living your life as openly gay women who are married.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: Thank you.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Thank you.
  • JO MELECA-VOIGT: And we don't do it for that, Evelyn.
  • We don't do it for that.
  • We do it because it's just the right thing to do.
  • You look at Susan B. Anthony who did it and never saw
  • the fruits of her work--
  • she just did what she thought was right,
  • and she never saw the things happen that she fought for.
  • We're just fortunate that we're able to see some of it.
  • But thank you, that means a lot.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, thank you.