Audio Interview, Larry Champoux, October 22, 2012

  • EVELYN BAILEY: Make sure the volume is up.
  • So today is Tuesday, October 22.
  • And I'm sitting here with Larry Champoux,
  • who is one of the founders of ImageOut twenty years ago.
  • And I'd first like to have you share some of your background.
  • Were you born in Rochester?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: I was born in Syracuse.
  • And my family moved to Rochester when I was about ten years old.
  • And like a lot of families, my dad got a job at Xerox.
  • So like many Xerox families, we moved to Penfield.
  • So I grew up in Penfield, New York.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And so you went to the Penfield School?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Penfield School District--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --district.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: And graduated in 1973.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were you out then?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: I was a hippie then.
  • So there was a lot of flexibility
  • to maneuver within that framework.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Free love.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: And so I wasn't--
  • I wouldn't say out, but I was surrounded
  • by many open-minded people, so many of whom
  • are still my great friends today.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And where did you go to college, Larry?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: I went to SUNY Binghamton, Binghamton
  • University, and got a degree in English literature
  • and studied art as well.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were you always interested in art?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Yeah.
  • I would say pretty much.
  • And from the time I was a child, I was creatively
  • engaged in one way or another.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were you an artist or--
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Well, I started out after college
  • writing poetry and studied poetry.
  • After Binghamton University, I went to a university
  • in Boulder, Colorado called Naropa University, Naropa
  • Institute, which is a Buddhist accredited college,
  • where I studied writing with people like Allen
  • Ginsberg and William Burroughs.
  • And it was the school that had been founded--
  • the writing school founded by Allen Ginsberg.
  • So I spent a couple of summers studying writing there also.
  • So my background after college was
  • in writing and worked at Writers & Books organizing readings,
  • organizing writing workshops.
  • And I got to meet a lot of writers and other artists
  • at that time and became sort of entrenched
  • in the creative community in Rochester.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So you never really left Rochester?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: I never really left.
  • I was in college.
  • And I've traveled a great deal.
  • But this has been home base for quite a while.
  • My partner and I also have a home
  • in Vancouver, British Columbia, where
  • we try to spend as much time as possible also.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, wow.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: So I'm also sort of from Vancouver
  • I consider myself now.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: It's a great city.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: It's beautiful.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Beautiful.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: How did you get into the Pyramid?
  • My first introduction to you was through the Pyramid art
  • gallery at Village Gate and your auctions
  • and that sort of thing.
  • How did you get into the Pyramid?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Well, Writers & Books
  • was a smaller, medium-sized cultural organization
  • as was Pyramid Art Center, which is now Rochester Contemporary.
  • And so I knew a lot of the folks there
  • and knew some of the board members.
  • And the two directors there--
  • Gina Mosesson and Tony Petracca--
  • had left to pursue other things at that time.
  • So the position became available at Pyramid Arts Center.
  • And I had done performances and had participated
  • in a lot of different activities at Pyramid Art Center,
  • so I applied for the job of executive artistic director
  • there.
  • And I think I got the job because I could write,
  • I could write grants.
  • And if you can write grants--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You can get it.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: --you can do a lot of the job.
  • So they hired me.
  • And it was a wonderful opportunity.
  • And as it turned out at that time,
  • Pyramid Art Center was deeply in debt,
  • which I was not quite aware of.
  • So I spent a lot of time shoring up the finances
  • there and getting new sources of income
  • and getting rid of its debt.
  • But it was a wonderful opportunity
  • and broadened out my awareness of a lot of other arts
  • and artists at that time.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: As I recall, you had a very eclectic show
  • all the time, very--
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Yeah.
  • Pyramid Art Center at that time was
  • considered an artist's space.
  • And we had a couple of locations while I
  • was director there-- one at Visual Studies
  • Workshop and then a very large one at Village Gate.
  • And we had two theaters.
  • We had several different galleries.
  • And as an artist's space, which was dedicated
  • to support and presentation of artists,
  • we had musical performances, dance performances,
  • theater, a lot of performance art,
  • in addition to painting, sculpture, crafts,
  • installation art, whole range of visual arts.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So when did you meet Susan Soleil?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Well, that's sort of after Pyramid Art
  • Center.
  • Well, there's sort of a gap in there.
  • Let me go back a little bit.
  • After Pyramid Art--
  • Pyramid Art Center had a board of directors.
  • One of its board members was Martha Leonard,
  • whose partner was Lee Andrews, I think her name was at the time.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: And they organized an event,
  • which was a convention conference called
  • Pink Flamingos and Purple Hearts, which
  • had a wide range of workshops and performances.
  • And Martha Leonard was on the board at Pyramid Art Center.
  • So in talking with them about their plans for it,
  • we discussed the possibility of having a film festival
  • as part of that.
  • So Lee and Martha hired me as a curator in Pyramid Art Center
  • to develop this film festival for Pink Flamingos and Purple
  • Hearts, a lesbian and gay film festival.
  • And I had been at Pyramid Art Center,
  • I'd been working with a lot of gay artists through the years
  • and presented--
  • well, presented a great deal of gay artists,
  • including some of the most notorious ones,
  • like Holly Hughes, lesbian theater artist
  • defunded by the NEA; and Karen Finley, very not a lesbian
  • but extremely gay-friendly, performance artist,
  • perhaps the most notorious performance
  • artist of the late '80s and early '90s, also defunded.
  • These were sort of the sorts of performance artists
  • that we brought, which were popular in New York,
  • and at the top of their field actually,
  • which was why we brought them in.
  • It wasn't that they were gay or lesbian or gay
  • or lesbian supportive.
  • They were doing some of the most incredible performance
  • work of the late '80s and early '90s,
  • tops of the field at a time when performance art was really
  • blossoming and blooming and where
  • there was an extremely vital period of time, driven partly
  • because of support from places like New York State
  • Council on the Arts and the NEA, which in New York state
  • were extremely supportive.
  • So I had done some film festivals
  • at Pyramid Arts Center before this.
  • I presented Todd Haynes' work at Pyramid Art Center
  • several times and had done many film festivals.
  • So the time came when Pink Flamingos and Purple Hearts
  • came around to expand that a bit and develop a film
  • festival for that, which essentially was the first film
  • festival of ImageOut, was this festival.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • That was in 19--
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Gosh, I'm trying to remember now.
  • I was looking through some old issues of the--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: 1990.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: '91 or '92?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: '91.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: '91 or '92, something like that?
  • And--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now, let me stop you for a minute.
  • Do you recall why--
  • what was the purpose in having you develop this--
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Well--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --film festival?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: to understand that, it's a little bit
  • important to talk about what was happening with gays
  • and lesbians as it related to the federal government
  • and the state government.
  • In 1989, controversies erupted regarding funding
  • for lesbian and gay, LGBT artists,
  • and allied or allied artists due to what
  • was considered controversial nature of their artwork.
  • In 1989, Alfonse D'Amato, our New York state senator,
  • denounced Andre Serrano's photographed Piss Christ,
  • if you remember that, which was--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I do.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: And that opened up
  • a wide range of conservative backlash
  • against artists, particularly those working
  • in the avant-garde or experimental ways, which
  • gay and lesbian artists have been lumped in with avant-garde
  • and experimental artists because of their outsider status
  • for so long.
  • And that extended to the National Endowment for the Arts
  • eventually.
  • It sort of blew up there with defunding of some gay artists,
  • like Holly Hughes and, again, Karen Finley.
  • Now, some of these artists were ones
  • that we were supportive of and actually ones that we
  • had helped get NEA grants.
  • So Pyramid Art Center was embroiled
  • in much of the controversy there,
  • because while this was happening,
  • we had grants for some of these our same artists that
  • didn't get defunded, like some of their other grants did,
  • fortunately.
  • But it was a very strange time.
  • And we were under a lot of heat and a lot of pressure
  • in some very strange ways.
  • During that time frame sort of out of the blue,
  • the Internal Revenue Service audited us,
  • which in the middle of all of this,
  • we really viewed as a harassment and intimidation that
  • was coming down from the federal government,
  • though there's no way to prove that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: No.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: But these were tactics--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But coincidences don't count.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: These were tactics
  • that were not unheard of.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: And the audit turned out perfect.
  • Our books were totally in order.
  • But it was a small arts organizations,
  • so it was very difficult to be audited.
  • So we were embroiled in all of that.
  • And I spent a lot of time actually on the phone
  • with lawyers at the National Endowment
  • for the Arts trying to ensure that this funding was secured.
  • And like directors of a lot of artist's spaces
  • around the country, we organized in order to try and fight
  • this oppression and censorship.
  • It became this issue of censorship of artists
  • mostly impacting LGBT artists.
  • And so then my last couple of years at Pyramid Art Center
  • were taken up largely with this issue of censorship,
  • which I felt a responsibility to respond to.
  • And in many ways, that over a course of time blew over.
  • But there was what was called the chilling effect, which
  • meant that, while specifically LGBT artists were not not being
  • funded, there was a movement away from addressing
  • those issues, a chilling effect, where we can talk
  • about all sorts of other things, but we
  • don't need to talk about LGBT issues
  • or be supportive of LGBT artists.
  • And it's not that we're not funding them.
  • It's just our interests are over here.
  • So there was a chilling effect that actually persists
  • to this day, when you look at the Smithsonian Institution
  • just recently taking down an exhibit of portraits
  • of LGBT individuals.
  • And that was just like last year that that happened.
  • So we still are experiencing this.
  • And Andre Serrano's work is still
  • controversial to this day.
  • And even right now, Mitt Romney is threatening
  • to defund the National Endowment for the Arts
  • as one of his priorities.
  • So we still live with these issues today.
  • So after that involvement, it became
  • important to figure out what are some long term
  • strategies for dealing with this issue in my own community.
  • And one of those strategies was empowering--
  • how do you empower a community to take control
  • of their own cultural expression in a way
  • so they're not dependent upon the bestowing of funds
  • to do that?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: To do that.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: And the film festival
  • early on became a vehicle, not only
  • for telling of the wide range of stories of our community,
  • but for our community to take control of it also,
  • to not have it controlled by other forces
  • or a conservative agenda, to set our own agenda.
  • And Pink Flamingos and Purple Hearts
  • was an opportunity to step into that water of a larger film
  • festival than Pyramid Art Center had done before.
  • And I viewed it as an opportunity also
  • to let it be something of a focus group as well,
  • because the audiences were much smaller at that point.
  • And we talked after each film, not only about
  • the films, but about, what do you think?
  • Could a film festival of a larger scale work here?
  • Should we move forward with this?
  • And so those discussions became very important
  • in developing the larger festival that at that time
  • was called the Rochester Lesbian and GAY Film Video Festival.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So it was because of Pink Flamingos and Purple
  • Hearts that the opportunity arose
  • to create this film festival that was larger
  • than what you had done before?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Well, what happened
  • at that point is, after that conference,
  • I left Pyramid Art Center and spent about the next eight
  • months to a year working pretty much exclusively
  • on some other issues but also in the development of a film
  • festival.
  • It was like, OK, well, go for it.
  • I had an opportunity to just devote time and energy to it.
  • So I did that.
  • But that allowed the--
  • that was an opportunity to bring resources together
  • around a larger film festival at a time when I was also
  • making a transition of being director of Pyramid Art Center.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And so the Alliance
  • was your kind of umbrella?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Well, at that time,
  • I was on the board of the Gay Alliance.
  • And I was also vise president of the Rochester Lesbian and Gay
  • Political Caucus.
  • So the Alliance was well aware of the success
  • of Purple Hearts and Pink Flamingos, which sort of was--
  • I look at it in many ways as sort
  • of a new era for how the community began
  • to identify itself.
  • There was a lot going on at that time.
  • And there was-- like the Alliance is always reinventing
  • itself to a certain extent.
  • I approached the Alliance, said, look,
  • here's a really great idea for a fundraiser,
  • a way to raise some funds.
  • And initially, my consideration for the film festival was--
  • because I was in the cultural community
  • and in the political and social community,
  • it was that a film festival could
  • be a vehicle to raise funds and support for the Alliance.
  • It's bring so many people into it.
  • And they said, well, let's go for this,
  • let's see what we can do here.
  • And I immediately set to raising funds,
  • immediately because I had worked with NYSCA for so long,
  • I was able to get NYSCA support for the film festival.
  • So the first film festival, in the first couple of them,
  • I believe, were under the auspices of the Gay Alliance.
  • And actually, the very first one was also
  • cosponsored by the Rochester Lesbian and Gay Political
  • Caucus.
  • And the first one made money.
  • And those dollars were split between the Alliance
  • and the Political Caucus.
  • At that time in the Political Caucus,
  • the major issue was domestic partnership benefits
  • in the city of Rochester, which had been there now
  • for about twenty years.
  • So the funds raised from the first film festival--
  • the first full film festival under the Alliance, part
  • of those funds where the educational opportunities
  • regarding domestic partnership benefits
  • and educational materials.
  • So it was really a wonderful sort
  • of like fusing of the community in many ways
  • that had multi-fold benefits.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And that was--
  • it was shortly after that that the city passed
  • domestic partnership benefits.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: It was just about the same time,
  • because really, it was all sort of at the same time
  • that the city passed those domestic partnership
  • benefits at the city of Rochester,
  • which I was involved in also because I
  • was involved with the Caucus.
  • And Bill Pritchard was very involved in that
  • also at that time.
  • So the film festival from the get-go was largely successful.
  • But it also didn't--
  • I spent a lot of time in those early months between Pink
  • Flamingos conference and the Gay Alliance supported
  • film festival going out to community groups
  • and talking to everybody-- and out to bars
  • and like selling the story and say,
  • I want to do this, what do you think about this.
  • And there was a great deal of sort of skepticism that I met--
  • interest, but it's kind of like, can we do that here?
  • Can we do something that big here?
  • And so some of them were saying, well, I think we can,
  • we just sort of did this.
  • And I also said that we have a really strong community that
  • had organized so strongly and so dramatically
  • around the issue of HIV and AIDS just a decade earlier
  • or so, that we had a strong network of volunteers
  • and a strong sensibility of community involvement
  • and self-sufficiency, that the film festival was
  • able to build upon.
  • And that self-sufficiency is critical.
  • That, again, the community taking charge and control
  • of its own culture is similar to the community taking charge
  • of its own health issues.
  • And that has been a hallmark of our community
  • and of the gay community nationally
  • that we are able to do that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: We take care of ourselves.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: We take care of ourselves.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And our own.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: And our own.
  • And that, whether its cultural issues or political issues
  • or social issues, I think has been
  • the most critical component to the success
  • that we've had over the past few generations in securing
  • LGBT rights, is that self-sufficiency and mutual
  • support that we always ultimately come back to.
  • So Susan Soleil was one of the members
  • in the audience at that conference Pink Flamingos
  • and Purple Hearts and was extremely enthusiastic
  • audience member and early on became
  • one of the strong supporters and originators in the film
  • festival and workhorses of the film festival.
  • And at that time, it was like I didn't want to be--
  • we called them producers early on--
  • I didn't want to be the only producer,
  • and there wasn't a woman involved.
  • And I said, geez, would you want to be a coproducer?
  • So Susan came out as a coproducer
  • for when we worked with the Gay Alliance
  • and then for many years afterwards worked
  • in that capacity.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Who were the members of the core group?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Oh, gosh.
  • Well, I can remember some of whom were early on.
  • Scott McCarney was early on.
  • And Jamie and Sally Whitbeck have been there
  • from the beginning.
  • Interestingly, at the time that ImageOut was beginning,
  • Jamie was working on a film festival,
  • I think for the Unitarian Universalist Church,
  • or I don't remember what church and simultaneous to that.
  • And I was sitting up in Bill Coppard's office
  • making plans for the film festival.
  • And Jamie called up on the phone at the same time
  • asking Bill Coppard.
  • And Bill Coppard goes, well, maybe you
  • should speak to Larry Champoux.
  • And Jamie goes, huh?
  • Well, he's sitting right here.
  • So Jamie came in and has been a really a
  • vibrant, strong support.
  • Early on, David Emert, Susan Soleil, and many others.
  • And what happens is there's been such strong volunteers,
  • so many different volunteers have
  • come through the film festival at this point,
  • that there are audience members.
  • There are former board members.
  • There are former volunteers.
  • There are supporters.
  • So there's a whole, large, sort of inner-mixed community that's
  • emerged around the film festival.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And how--
  • so the first film festival was held where?
  • I mean, where were the films shown, The Little?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Most of them were at The Little, as I
  • recall, The Little.
  • And I think perhaps that first year, we also
  • had The Dryden as well.
  • So The Little was a major resource.
  • And I can't recall, we may have had some other locations
  • as well.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: How did you get the connection with The Dyrden.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Gosh.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do you remember?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: That I don't recall.
  • But you know, interestingly, at that time, The Dryden's film
  • selection was a lot more spayed, if you remember back
  • a number of years.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: They appealed to an older audience.
  • And so we came in with this OUTlandish Film Festival
  • early on and brought audiences in.
  • And I think it's part of the way that ImageOut has had a larger
  • impact on the larger film, the media community,
  • is that we sort of, I think, showed The Dyrden
  • and the Eastman that they can broaden out
  • their film selection and get audiences to come in for that.
  • They don't have to rely on all Fred Astaire films.
  • And so the ImageOut Film Festival
  • has had an impact, not just on the gay community,
  • but on the larger film and media community--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, absolutely.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: --as well.
  • And we continue to to this day.
  • And I think what's most notable is that it's been administered
  • so well, which is a skill Susan Soleil brought to the film
  • festival clearly with strong administrative skills
  • to develop the sort of structural components
  • that it could have some of that longevity.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Who took over after Susan?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Gosh, you know, I--
  • I don't have the whole history.
  • I don't recall then.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: It must have been Kevin.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Because I sort of have come in and out of it.
  • I come in and mostly do fundraising
  • and some special programs.
  • And then I go away for a few years.
  • So I don't really recall.
  • I don't really recall.
  • One thing that Susan did and David did
  • is they created, which is a lot of work,
  • its own nonprofit organization.
  • And that's a monumental feat.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So Susan was responsible for that.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Susan and David, I think,
  • were responsible for creating it as an independent--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: 501(c)(3).
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: --501(c)(3) organization.
  • And with that comes a whole range of responsibilities.
  • But early on, even from the first film festival--
  • I mean, I'd worked in nonprofit organizations
  • and had dragged Pyramid Art Center out of debt
  • to profitability.
  • And so from early on, there was an insistence
  • that it had to be financially successful also.
  • Because there are so many projects that look great
  • and people have ambitious ideas, but they--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Fall short.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: --lose money.
  • And people, as soon as the money is, people lose interest.
  • So from early on--
  • and even the first one where we made money
  • for the Alliance and the Political Caucus,
  • there's been the intention that we
  • need to ensure that there's a positive bottom line, which
  • it has had almost every year.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: And because it has been successful,
  • people want to be involved with a successful organization.
  • And so it continues to attract really
  • a wide range of talented people who come through there
  • and contribute to it, a lot of time, energy,
  • and love and passion.
  • So I'm not sure who-- like, I don't recall exactly--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Who.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: --who turned--
  • I don't recall all of that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Susan will know.
  • Susan will know more of that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And Jamie Whitbeck.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: And Jamie would know that too.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Larry, where do you get your passion?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Well, I'm sort of the type that is--
  • I am sort of driven to kind of makes things happen.
  • I kind of like--
  • I sort of look for where is there a void,
  • and how can you fill it.
  • Because it sort of is like, when you begin to fill a void,
  • there's all sorts of energy that starts to formulate around it.
  • The film festival is kind of like that.
  • I'm sort of-- I like ideas and encourage and enthuse
  • people around ideas.
  • But I'm not the person to carry it through after that.
  • I like the spark.
  • I've always loved the spark and the spark of creativity
  • and the spark of the inspirational moment.
  • What I've always sort of beyond that have been interested in
  • is how does that play out in a community.
  • How do you-- like at Writers & Books, it was--
  • when I was there, working with poets,
  • it was like we generated a community of poets.
  • And there was like creating an energy around that.
  • So where does that come from?
  • I don't know.
  • I'm a Buddhist.
  • And I sort of like am driven in different ways
  • sometimes and sort of make different determinations
  • about what's success is or what is successful.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, you certainly are a connector.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Mm-hm.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You present an idea or capture an idea.
  • And people tend to gravitate toward you
  • to initially get involved.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: You know what I think
  • it is, if it's a skill that I have,
  • it's because I have been a writer and a poet,
  • I'm an articulator.
  • So I think I bring words and voice to things that people
  • are already feeling.
  • And that's what it is.
  • It's kind of like--
  • this was precisely, I think, with the film festival,
  • it was like, don't we all sort of need this or really
  • want this?
  • And don't you see how this can sort of happen in this way?
  • So I don't think it's--
  • I think it's just articulating a community's needs
  • and bringing voice to them that then people respond to,
  • because there's words then that express something
  • that they might be feeling.
  • That's to me, if I'm looking at my own self,
  • if there's a skill I have, that might be it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • Well, you certainly have it, because you've
  • been successful doing that in a number of endeavors.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Yeah, mm-hm.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What happened with Susan Soleil and you and--
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Oh, I think that I had sort of fulfilled
  • the part of--
  • I mean, I had been working for a number of years
  • on this sort of an issue.
  • It wasn't-- You know, I didn't sort of just like pop off.
  • I'd been supporting lesbian and gay artists
  • and doing many film festivals and organized this Pink
  • Flamingos thing and carried it through.
  • But then I sort of had done my component of that.
  • And David and Susan were very interested in formulating it
  • as a nonprofit at that point.
  • And that was not sort of what was most interesting to me.
  • And it was also kind of like, if you
  • want to encourage a community and teach a community how
  • to do a film festival, which was like here it is, here's
  • the tools to do it, here's the distributors,
  • here's how you get in touch with filmmakers,
  • here's how you present it in a theater,
  • here's the equipment that you need,
  • you lay that all out as I did, then it sort of was
  • important to me also, although difficult for me,
  • was just to step back.
  • And it's like, I'll let the community sort of do it.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: And I think it's been a hallmark of the film
  • festival that it isn't identified with leadership so
  • much as it's identified with community.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I would agree.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: The community is the leader.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: And so therefore,
  • as the founder of this film festival,
  • I thought the best thing in many ways to do
  • is to step back and let the community do it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do it.
  • Who originally chose the films?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: I did originally.
  • And then we worked with a committee.
  • Earlier on, it's been sort of a committee of folks.
  • And then eventually, it became more specialized,
  • because the film festival grew and became more sophisticated.
  • But originally, I had been the person
  • that had had that experience.
  • But quickly-- again, it's not about--
  • it wasn't about a curator.
  • It was about community engaged in it.
  • So it was important for other people to do that too.
  • It wasn't about me being a power broker,
  • selecting films, as much as it is a community with programmers
  • and a committee of people sharing in that endeavor
  • and defining it themselves as much as possible.
  • And now Michael Gamilla has been the chair of that
  • and done such a wonderful job with that for several years
  • now.
  • But so many others, like Rachel Brister
  • did a wonderful job too.
  • And what's sort of interesting to note
  • is that the explosion of LGBT media
  • and film over the past 20 years is incredible.
  • The quality has risen dramatically.
  • The funding availability for films to be done,
  • the subject matter has broadened in many ways.
  • And earlier on, because it came from an avant-garde
  • garde and experimental background, a lot of it
  • was not as mainstream oriented as it has now, which
  • there's pluses and minuses too.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, and there's a huge international thrust.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: It does appear that the energy has
  • broadened to the world.
  • And there's this desire or a need for everyone
  • to see on the screen who we are.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Yeah.
  • And I think, you know, what related to that,
  • I think what's most important right now is for those of us
  • here in the United States to see the stories that are being told
  • in some other countries now, where the issues are far more
  • critical and life-threatening and dramatic and dire
  • than we face in the United States,
  • so that we don't become complacent with our own success
  • and presume the world is changing,
  • when only our neighborhood is.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: And so that international focus
  • is really important to maintain.
  • And the film festival continues to do that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
  • Now, when we first talked on the phone or by email,
  • you said you really wanted the real story
  • to be told about ImageOut.
  • Have you told it?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: I think that the major point for the gay
  • community to understand always for the foreseeable future is
  • that our capabilities to have free speech are really tenuous
  • and to not take for granted that the opportunities we have,
  • like the ImageOut Film Festival, and not to presume that those
  • rights of free speech cannot be taken away in a second.
  • And while it may not be defunding of a film,
  • it may be legislation in the South demanding that
  • schoolteacher's cannot even say the word gay.
  • These issues of free speech, free assembly
  • continue to haunt us to this day.
  • And the film festival is a beacon, perhaps,
  • that can shine light on how tenuous that can be.
  • A change in administration, a change in Congress,
  • a change in the Supreme Court can dramatically
  • impact our current entertainments and enjoyments
  • and quality to organize.
  • So the film festival for me going into what is,
  • again, a way to provide a self-sufficient
  • means for the cultural community to tell
  • these stories to each other, to the world,
  • and to see their stories expressed on the screen.
  • And that can't be forgotten.
  • It can't just become an entertainment.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Talk to me a little bit
  • about the forms of censorship.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Well, in the era when the film festival was
  • created, that censorship involved pretty clearly issues
  • of defunding lesbian and gay artists or organizations,
  • like Pyramid Art Center, which didn't get defunded,
  • but similar organizations being defunded
  • for presenting these issues.
  • So one of the forms of censorship
  • is not only defunding, but not funding anyway.
  • Let me give you an example of how it is that defunding
  • is more dramatic.
  • But I spent a year--
  • and this was maybe seven years ago or more pretty recently--
  • doing development work for the film festival.
  • And I approached Monroe County to fund the film festival.
  • And at that time, the county had a category of mid-size arts
  • organizations with budgets over $100,000 that
  • could receive county funds.
  • And there was a pool of these organizations,
  • similar size to ImageOut, receiving this funds already.
  • And for a year, I spent contacting Maggie Brooks'
  • administration and was put off.
  • For a year, I pursued them, till finally I
  • had a meeting with a couple of her assistants,
  • where they said they just don't have the money
  • to do that though.
  • So we weren't defunded by the county,
  • but we were not funded, even though we
  • fit the parameters of other similar-sized arts
  • organizations.
  • So when you are a nonprofit organization,
  • funding or not funding is a primary means of censorship,
  • although legislatively, it can happen as well.
  • At the time of the NEA crisis, there
  • was a decency clause created about what
  • could be funded by the NEA.
  • So there was legislation that I think eventually the Supreme
  • Court shot down, because decency is such a broad term.
  • So legislatively, it can happen.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What about the rating system?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Rating sys-- well, ratings
  • are sort of an explicit way.
  • But the problem we are up against in our community
  • is that there are people who not only consider our movies to be
  • controversial or indecent, they consider our very lives
  • to be controversial and indecent.
  • So if you are up against individuals
  • who do not believe the integrity of your own being,
  • they are not going to be supportive of art
  • that expresses that either.
  • So the rating system--
  • our lives are always controversial on some level
  • and despite the fact for many of us our lives--
  • our watching our children, picking them up from day care,
  • taking them to soccer practice, going to work--
  • our lives are, for the most part, a moment to moment basis
  • are not controversial at all but our being is.
  • And so we are always up against that.
  • And we are always up against the argument
  • that our relationships are indecent
  • and our lives are indecent.
  • Now, with marriage equality, which many in the gay community
  • are supportive of and others are not,
  • one of the clear benefits of that is that it has given
  • our relationships credibility at a governmental level,
  • that our relationships are as decent as anybody else's.
  • And that is a major impact.
  • Regardless of whether you want to get married,
  • you like marriage, it is monumental, see change for us.
  • So when we have enemies who consider us indecent,
  • censorship as at every corner.
  • I'm particularly concerned about it
  • as it relates to young people, whether they can express
  • themselves as an openly gay, LGBT individual
  • in their school, or whether children can hear the word gay
  • and not presume, again, that it's
  • indecent or terrible or dirty, and that teachers have freedom
  • to say that word, to speak.
  • And we're not there yet.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: No.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: We're not there yet.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: No, we aren't.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: And it's not a proselytizing.
  • It's not, because it--
  • but it's to prevent young people from hurting themselves
  • and to give those young LGBT kids an opportunity
  • to grow to adulthood without any unusual fears about their world
  • that they live in.
  • It's a safety issue.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Very much so.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: So censorship, bullying,
  • intimidation is a means to quiet someone in ways
  • that are almost so difficult. How do you tell a young lesbian
  • to not be so dykey or a young kid
  • to get punched or shoved because he's too faggy.
  • Where does that child go, except inside to a world of fear.
  • So currently, bullying is understood
  • to be bad because it's violent.
  • But bullying is an intimidation of young people
  • at a critical point in their age-- and adults, and adults.
  • So it happens on a lot of different levels.
  • But there's a connection there.
  • It's quieting.
  • It's putting people back into the shadows where you belong,
  • where I don't have to deal with you and your flaunting
  • of your life or whatever.
  • So the film festival is an explosion of celebration
  • in the opposite direction.
  • Publicly in our community at broad, we say, we're big,
  • we are diverse, there are many, many faces in our community,
  • and here's a whole bunch of them.
  • Some, you will agree with.
  • Some, you're going to hate.
  • Some, you're going to love.
  • Some, you're going to embrace.
  • Some, you're going to model your life after.
  • But here they all are.
  • Let's all look at it as a community at large
  • and as a LGBT community and move forward.
  • So the value of it, it brings it all wide open and out there.
  • And it's so beautiful, it's so gratifying to me
  • to see so many people work so hard in this festival
  • every year, looking back twenty years ago
  • and just see so many people embrace this now and embrace
  • that notion of let's celebrate this and hug each other,
  • when they see each other at the film festival and say,
  • I haven't seen you since last year, and here we are again.
  • I love that.
  • It's a wonderful celebration.
  • It sort of is a celebration that is an antidote
  • to that sort of hatred.
  • So I guess that's sort of what I wanted to say.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I have a couple more questions.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Sure.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: One is, when you first began this work,
  • did you have any idea of the impact that it might have?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: I think so, yeah.
  • I think I sort of did.
  • I think I sort of read the tea leaves in the community.
  • And I thought, this is something that we are sort of really
  • ripe for and we have the skills here
  • to do that and the financial wherewithal to pull this off,
  • largely based, again, on the fact
  • that our community had organized so strongly
  • around HIV and AIDS.
  • I said, yeah, we can have an impact here.
  • We can take that further still.
  • There's more we can do with this.
  • And I think I did.
  • And particularly after Pink Flamingos and Purple Hearts
  • conference, I had a sense then that this could really happen,
  • that there could be something really good here that
  • could happen.
  • And I knew at that point I sort of
  • had enough knowledge on how to organize a film festival, which
  • was sort of a new skill for our community.
  • And so I thought that if enough people could be taught
  • how to do that, it could have--
  • If it had been sort of a leadership-driven organization,
  • as opposed or community-driven organization,
  • I don't know that it would have survived,
  • because those sorts of organizations
  • are so dependent upon a person.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Individuals.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: And then you hire a whole staff of people.
  • You've got to pay everybody.
  • And you've got to maintain your infrastructure.
  • Then you're spending money on maintaining payroll and health
  • insurance.
  • And the film festival has bypassed a lot of that
  • by being a community-based organization.
  • And so I think it's the community that does that.
  • It's a lot of work, but it's a low maintenance,
  • non-profit model.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: It is.
  • That's very true.
  • One part-time paid staff is--
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Yeah, for many years, for many years
  • and generally a positive fund balance for many of those years
  • and money in a endowment actually.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Which is pretty amazing.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, it has grown exponentially
  • in terms of people involvement.
  • An it has grown consistently in terms of funding and money
  • coming in.
  • And the community more and more has taken it on as its own
  • and really supported it much more than it has in the past.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Well, you know, a few years back,
  • it was in the Arts and Cultural Council's Cultural Organization
  • Award.
  • I think it was at its 15th anniversary.
  • Maybe it was five years ago.
  • And that was really important for our organization,
  • because it was a recognition that this was not
  • just an organization important to the LGBT community,
  • that it has been important to the cultural landscape
  • of our community, and that it has
  • had an impact beyond even just the LGBT community
  • and to other realms.
  • Its impacted, I think, programming at The Dryden.
  • It has been a model for High Falls Film Festival.
  • Other smaller film festivals have spun off
  • or have looked to ImageOut for support and knowledge
  • and skills.
  • And so it's moved to have a broader impact as well, which
  • has been great for our community,
  • to show we have a political infrastructure that
  • has made monumental contributions to our community.
  • And we have a cultural infrastructure
  • that has made contributions.
  • We have a health and social structure
  • that has made monumental contributions.
  • We have The Empty Closet.
  • We have media that has made an ongoing, dramatic, huge impact
  • on our region and on New York state, I think.
  • And we still have an Alliance that
  • continues to function and serve new people
  • and to adapt to the time.
  • So really, there's a maturing-- really,
  • a maturing of us as people who have
  • been involved for a number of years and of our community.
  • The trick is going to be, as it has always been,
  • where will young folks take us?
  • And how do we maintain our integrity
  • as a community at a time when we're
  • being rapidly integrated into our workplaces and into--
  • How do we--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mainstreaming has, for a long time,
  • been the goal, to not be separate,
  • to not be thought of as different or distinct.
  • Yet, when we do that, we lose some
  • of that individuality that is required
  • to maintain our own existence.
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: You know, and as an artist
  • and as someone who has developed cultural programs,
  • it's one of the reasons why I always
  • have loved those artists that are outside the mainstream
  • and even outside the mainstream of the LGBT community, who
  • are going to dare to be transgressive a little bit
  • and challenge all of us on who we are and what we do.
  • And we still have to continue to nurture all of those folks
  • to be able to express themselves.
  • We've always been a--
  • we have a long history of being creatively, outlandish,
  • experimental, and avant-garde.
  • Many of the geniuses of the last several centuries
  • have been of our community.
  • And we need to continue to support
  • the most outlandish of us, as well as the most mainstream.
  • And that's a little bit of--
  • I share a little bit of that fear
  • there, that that's a vitality that keeps informing us
  • all the time.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So what would you identify
  • as the biggest challenge ImageOut has for the future?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: Some years ago, we
  • showed a film called Orlando, which
  • dealt like with gender issues than specifically lesbian
  • and gay issues.
  • And it starred Tilda Swinton, as I recall.
  • And there was some confusion there.
  • It was like, how can this-- that's not a lesbian.
  • It's about somebody that's androgynous.
  • And I think that the challenge is
  • going to be maneuvering through the sexual politics
  • of the twenty-first century, which
  • were some of the issues of gender
  • are emerging as larger and broader issues
  • than even LGBTQ, or however many letters we add onto that, which
  • is of broadening out of our issues.
  • So I think it's going to be finding
  • how it's going to maneuver through that, because I think
  • that issues of gender are going to emerge as larger.
  • As we get more of our specific rights related in the workplace
  • or to associate or to marry, I think issues of gender
  • will emerge larger and how our gender identity inhibits
  • or enhances our lives.
  • So I think it's going to be that--
  • how it formulates its identity in the world.
  • And I could see it even broadening to being
  • inclusive of heterosexually identified films
  • that deal with some of those same issues
  • also, so that we don't become isolated away
  • into what gay men think the experience is
  • or what lesbians think the experience is but to the larger
  • issues of how gender issues determine where
  • we go in our world, as a female executive
  • or what she can do versus what a male executive can
  • do versus that gender ceiling versus what
  • an effeminate man can achieve in the workplace
  • versus a masculine man in the workplace.
  • So I think that that's sort of where I wonder.
  • It's an area of wonderment for me about it and a challenge.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: When all is said and done,
  • what are you most proud of?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: It's to me, it's sitting--
  • I feel a great deal of pride when I go to a film
  • and I sit in the audience and I feel so much warmth expressed
  • for the film festival, towards each other,
  • to me, to our community.
  • It's that moment, just sitting in the audience
  • with many people I've known for years
  • and enjoying being together, enjoying assembly, enjoying
  • our rights of free assembly in the film festival
  • watching our stories be told.
  • It's that moment.
  • It's just like, it's always sort of thrilling to me to do that,
  • just sitting as an audience member in a corner there.
  • That's really gratifying.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: One final question--
  • what would you say to youth today
  • to encourage them to be who they are?
  • LARRY CHAMPOUX: I would say--
  • and it's probably the same thing I would say to any kid--
  • is, don't be afraid, don't be afraid to stand
  • outside whatever norm or group you may
  • be pressured to be a part of.
  • Don't be intimidated and know that inside of yourself,
  • you have the capabilities to make a difference
  • in your own life and the lives of the people you love
  • and in your community.
  • And don't be afraid no matter what the group is.
  • Whether it's on the athletic field,
  • whether it's in church, whether it's in the gay community,
  • stand free to be who you want to be.
  • And don't be afraid.
  • That's it.
  • Fear inhibits us more than it really needs to.
  • Don't be afraid.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Thank you.
  • And I'm going to turn this off but--