Audio Interview, Mark Siewic, May 29, 2013

  • EVELYN BAILEY: --where I usually begin.
  • Today is May 29, and I'm sitting with Mark Siwiec,
  • at his Nothnagel office in Brighton.
  • And Mark was involved with the Gay Alliance
  • and has been involved with LGBT issues most of his life.
  • But I want to ask you, Mark, were you born in Rochester?
  • MARK SIWIEC: No.
  • I was born in Buffalo in 1965.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And when did you come to Rochester?
  • MARK SIWIEC: '83, when I started at the U of R. So actually--
  • and I realize we're talking about Rochester--
  • but it's probably important to say
  • that one of the reasons I came to Rochester
  • and ended up staying here and loving it
  • was because in Buffalo, my dad was a cop,
  • and I grew up with a bunch of cops,
  • and it was a very blue collar, very Catholic town.
  • And I remember listening to AM radio
  • late at night when I was a little kid.
  • And the mayor, Jimmy Griffin, used
  • to talk about pansies and fags and queers.
  • And that was the public rhetoric.
  • And I was shocked when I came here
  • in '83 to very quickly and very soon
  • realize that that kind of language
  • wasn't accepted here in Rochester.
  • That that kind of language was forbidden.
  • That people, even if they didn't necessarily approve of gay
  • and lesbian and their quote, unquote "lifestyle,"
  • they didn't--
  • they would never think about using that kind of language
  • publicly.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And when you came to the U of R,
  • you got involved, though, with the LGBT group on campus.
  • Correct?
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do you remember what it was called?
  • MARK SIWIEC: No.
  • I don't. (laughs)--
  • I'm forty-eight years old now.
  • I have no idea what that one was called.
  • So no.
  • But I'll think about that, yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: The Pride Alliance?
  • MARK SIWIEC: No.
  • I'll think--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Gay Academic Union?
  • MARK SIWIEC: No, no.
  • I'll think about it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So when you got involved with that group,
  • on campus, what was the response to that group?
  • Was-- I mean, there was obviously some homophobia.
  • But overall?
  • MARK SIWIEC: There wasn't a lot of response.
  • And the reason there wasn't a lot of response
  • was because even though we were meeting,
  • and we were given a room in the psych building, of all places.
  • I mean, but we were given a room in the psych building.
  • And it was sort of in a lower level,
  • sort of far away from traffic.
  • Pedestrian traffic.
  • So that if somebody wanted to attend a meeting,
  • they could do so without fear of being seen walking into a room.
  • And so we basically didn't have much
  • of a public presence on campus.
  • We were basically an organization
  • that was meeting weekly to talk about strategies of coming out.
  • To talk about gay and lesbian oppression.
  • That kind of thing.
  • You know, there was a lot of--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now, that was 1983.
  • MARK SIWIEC: I graduated in '83.
  • So this is '85.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: '85.
  • MARK SIWIEC: And so there was--
  • it was just at that point in time when I--
  • and it's so funny.
  • Because I think back.
  • This was 1985, and I think back, like, when I was at the U of R
  • in '85, when I started the U of R in '83,
  • I used to think about gay and lesbian history
  • as being ancient history.
  • When in reality, it was only like ten, fifteen years old.
  • But in my mind, it was ancient history.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So even in '85, there
  • was this concern of an aura of fear of coming out?
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
  • Yeah.
  • Absolutely.
  • Absolutely.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Among students?
  • MARK SIWIEC: Among students.
  • I mean, we only had probably twenty-five or so members.
  • I mean, high school today have twenty-five members.
  • But back then-- in their gay student unions.
  • But we were only able-- and the reality is,
  • and I don't mean to demean anybody,
  • but the reality is that those who were attending,
  • they were kind of misfits.
  • They were sort of-- it was the land of misfit toys.
  • So there weren't any quote, unquote, "popular" kids
  • from campus who were part of our group.
  • And I remember, among the things that we would do, once a year,
  • we would be invited to a few psych classes, Psych 101,
  • to talk about the fact that we're normal.
  • The fact that this isn't a psychological disease.
  • This isn't an illness.
  • And a lot of what we were trying to do
  • was break stereotypes at that point in time.
  • There was very, very little conversation about politics.
  • There was very little conversation
  • about a political agenda of any sort.
  • It was really, at that point in time, still about organizing.
  • And probably the same way the Gay Alliance was organizing
  • in the ten years before that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So how did you find, eventually, because you
  • did find, the Gay Alliance?
  • I mean, was there a connection between the U of R and the Gay
  • Alliance, or was it primarily by well,
  • computers weren't even like--
  • MARK SIWIEC: For those who know me, I'm rather headstrong.
  • So--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, energetic.
  • MARK SIWIEC: (laughs) And so I took the energy
  • that I had in regard to gay and lesbian
  • civil rights and my experience on the U of R campus,
  • and I became involved the Gay Alliance, actually,
  • through Tim Maines.
  • And I remember after I graduated--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What was your connection with Tim?
  • MARK SIWIEC: After I graduated from the U of R,
  • I remember reading in the Empty Closet
  • that Tim was running for re-election to city council.
  • And I remember going to Broadway and knocking on a door,
  • and I remember, literally, my hand--
  • I was shaking.
  • My hand was shaking as I knocked on the door,
  • rang the doorbell, whatever it was.
  • And it was Don Belac's house.
  • And I said, my name is Mark Siwiec,
  • and I'd like to volunteer if I could.
  • And I was escorted in, and I was put
  • to work stuffing envelopes and working on a mailing.
  • And so it was as a result of that
  • that I had gotten to know Sue Cowell,
  • and as a result of that, all the pieces then
  • start to fall into place.
  • So.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now, had you personally experienced
  • any rejections in terms of being gay, whether you were
  • on campus or in Buffalo or--
  • I mean, you shared with me that you heard the rhetoric that
  • was so negative and so hurtful.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Listen, my dad was a cop.
  • And there were five of us stuck in a 900-square foot ranch.
  • And the dining table conversation
  • had to do with niggers and fags and Jews.
  • There was no opportunity whatsoever for me to come out.
  • So I didn't suffer any oppression,
  • only because I was completely and absolutely closeted.
  • Which in and of itself is obviously a form of oppression,
  • but not any overt.
  • And at the U of R, no.
  • Actually, at the U of R, it was really interesting,
  • and I still look back.
  • For some god forsaken reason, I had joined
  • a fraternity, delta sigma phi.
  • And I did that, I think, my freshman year at the U of R.
  • You know, as you're trying to figure out
  • who your friends are, and what your identity's going to be.
  • All of that.
  • My sophomore year is when I start to come out publicly.
  • Is when I start to take on responsibility for cheering
  • the Gay Student Union, or whatever
  • it was called at the time.
  • And I moved off campus, and I moved on to East Avenue,
  • where I took care of an elderly woman.
  • And the members of the fraternity
  • couldn't understand why it was that I had moved out
  • of the frat house and why it is that I had moved off campus.
  • Then it became clear and obvious to them, oh, he's gay,
  • and he feels as though--
  • Those guys were fantastic.
  • They did an amazing and remarkable job
  • of always saying, Mark, we haven't seen you in a while.
  • We'd love to have you come to this event.
  • Hey, why don't you come and hang out on Saturday afternoon,
  • play foosball?
  • So it was the beginning of a form of enlightenment
  • on the part of some of the students on campus.
  • Actually, what is interesting is I
  • remember so distinctly that experience,
  • and I could contrast that with a woman who
  • I was sitting in the student union,
  • and there was conversation about gay men and lesbians.
  • And this woman said, if I knew that my son was gay,
  • I would take him and throw him out the window and kill him.
  • And I remember so distinctly her saying that and contrasting
  • that with my experience with the fraternity.
  • Very, very different.
  • So.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • When you became involved with Tim's campaign,
  • do you recall whether it was his first campaign, or--
  • MARK SIWIEC: It was his second.
  • His re-election.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Reelection.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Second, yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And as a part of that,
  • did you ever experience being harassed, being--
  • MARK SIWIEC: No.
  • No.
  • No.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So and in your professional life?
  • MARK SIWIEC: No.
  • Things started very, very, very quickly changing.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Once you got involved politically,
  • I think you were connected to Mel Donato--
  • ACT UP.
  • You didn't know Mel Donato?
  • MARK SIWIEC: So yeah.
  • It wasn't ACT UP.
  • It was Queer Nation which was--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Queer Nation.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
  • So I was involved with Tim's campaign in that first year,
  • and they had me stuff envelopes on that first day.
  • And then they liked the way that I stuffed envelopes,
  • so then I became in charge of all their mailings.
  • And then as a result of that, I became
  • involved in the 23rd LD, the 23rd legislative district
  • of the Democratic Party, which Sue Cowell was running.
  • And Sue Cowell was attached to and involved
  • in things that were political, both in terms
  • of democratic politics, but also in terms of gay politics.
  • And that's how I became involved in the Gay Alliance
  • and then actually became vice president of the Gay Alliance
  • under Claire Parker.
  • It was a year or two after that that--
  • and this is the time when Out magazine was being published,
  • and there was that great bookstore on University Avenue
  • with Laurie and--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Laurie [Matoaca and Marge.
  • Wild Seeds.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Wild Seeds.
  • Yeah.
  • And that was great, because that was a place
  • that I could go to get OUT magazine and Michealangelo
  • Signorile.
  • Michealangelo Signorile was writing these articles week
  • after week after week.
  • And you would just run to the store
  • to see who it was that Michealangelo Signorile was
  • going to out that week.
  • And there were all these public figures
  • who he was outing and calling them
  • on the carpet for their hypocrisy.
  • And so while that was going on, then you
  • had to ACT UP which was taking place in larger cities
  • throughout.
  • And then a splinter group of ACT UP was Queer Nation.
  • And the focus of Queer Nation wasn't
  • so much about HIV and AIDS politics,
  • but it was really more about radicalizing gay and lesbian
  • and becoming more and more public.
  • And I remember we had done a public kiss--
  • a kiss-in or something.
  • I remember what happened.
  • I remember that we had a bunch of radio and television
  • and that kind of thing.
  • So yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And your first real activity with the Alliance
  • was the auction at Geva, right?
  • MARK SIWIEC: Oh, that auction.
  • Yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Not the other one at the Bachelor Forum
  • (laughs)--
  • We all remember that one.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yeah, OK.
  • Good.
  • Yeah, that's what I thought you were talking about.
  • No.
  • Yeah.
  • So--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You took care of the food
  • and that sort of thing.
  • But I think that was the first auction that we ever did.
  • MARK SIWIEC: So the first auction.
  • So I rem--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Did from the heart.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yes.
  • I remember-- yeah.
  • Thanks for bringing that up.
  • I had forgotten all about it.
  • I remember being very, very proud.
  • I was twenty-three years old or twenty-five years old
  • or something, and I remember that we
  • needed to raise money for the building fund, I think it was.
  • Yeah.
  • And I remember being very proud of the fact that we put
  • together a really great event.
  • And it was at Geva Theater, and it was very public,
  • and it was very sophisticated in a way that I just
  • don't recollect events for the gay and lesbian community up
  • until then hadn't been this sort of-- people were in suits
  • and ties, and it was very--
  • and we raised, we netted $15,000.
  • And you remember the sum of money.
  • And I remember just being so incredibly proud.
  • And it took all of our effort and all of our energy.
  • It took a small army of people four to six
  • months to raise the kind of money.
  • But I remember, yeah.
  • That was, in my mind, a real sea change for the community.
  • And that we could come together in something other
  • than our jeans and t-shirts, and we
  • could start to interact with the larger
  • community in a very, very public way and a very
  • professional way.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And that money went into the building fund.
  • We raised $120,000 in eighteen months
  • and bought the building on Atlantic Avenue.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yeah, yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: By the time we moved to Atlantic Avenue,
  • though, I think you were off the board.
  • MARK SIWIEC: I had stepped off the board
  • because I had become--
  • for all sorts of reasons.
  • One--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You were a landlord.
  • MARK SIWIEC: I was starting in business.
  • I was becoming more involved in business.
  • That was starting to take more of my time.
  • And then I started to become more and more involved
  • in democratic politics.
  • So the free time that I had--
  • this is really an interesting conversation.
  • Because that, I think, was sort of the break from my engagement
  • solely in gay and lesbian politics
  • and becoming more and more of a gay liaison
  • to sort of a larger democratic community.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were you ever afraid to say who you were?
  • MARK SIWIEC: No.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were you proud--
  • MARK SIWIEC: Absolutely.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --to be who you were?
  • MARK SIWIEC: Absolutely.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: From even in Buffalo?
  • MARK SIWIEC: No, no.
  • I thought the question was when I became involved
  • in democratic politics.
  • No.
  • You know, there's that struggle that we all go through.
  • But I remember-- again, I'm resolute.
  • I'm headstrong.
  • And I remember the process of coming out.
  • And I remember just turning to my family.
  • Again, my dad was a cop.
  • And turning to my family and just saying,
  • listen, this is who I am.
  • And if you want, I can send you a card for your birthday,
  • and I can give you a gift on Christmas,
  • and that will be the sole extent of our relationship.
  • Or if you want to continue to have me as your son,
  • you're going to come to terms with this.
  • And that was very difficult for my parents, but--
  • my father in particular-- but they came around.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I know I met your mother.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: On Barton Street.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yes.
  • Yes.
  • Yeah, exactly.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: In your apartment.
  • And she seemed fine with that whole--
  • MARK SIWIEC: I mean, my mother has just
  • been an incredible-- my mom was born in Buffalo.
  • Very blue collar, lower middle class family.
  • High school education.
  • No college education.
  • My father the same.
  • And for my mother to evolve in the way that she has
  • and for her to become the advocate, not only for me,
  • but also for the community in a larger sense,
  • it's really commendable.
  • It's really remarkable.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: In the past thirty years,
  • thirty-five years, what are you most proud of in terms
  • of your contribution?
  • MARK SIWIEC: I think--
  • it's going to be a long-winded answer.
  • But the short answer is I think that I
  • am very proud of the fact that Duffy and I have acted
  • as a liaison from the community to, in many ways,
  • a larger community.
  • The straight community, the heterosexual community,
  • the political community, on the democratic side of the aisle
  • and on the republican side of the aisle.
  • Here in our county, but throughout the state.
  • And whether it was we were normalizing,
  • so to say, or so to speak, whether it
  • was because we were normalizing our relationship
  • and gay and lesbian involvement with people like Chuck Schumer
  • or with Eliot Spitzer, having asked
  • Bob Duffy to run for office.
  • Having him become a lieutenant governor.
  • Having him preside over marriage.
  • Whether it's because of our relationships with local bank
  • presidents, presidents of colleges and universities
  • locally.
  • That's, I think, what we're most proud of.
  • What I'm certainly most proud of.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And how throughout--
  • when did you and Duffy meet?
  • MARK SIWIEC: We've been together for seventeen years.
  • So that was in 1996.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: '96.
  • And did you meet politically, or did you--
  • MARK SIWIEC: No, no, no, no.
  • We met through a personal ad.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And you and he have begun many organizations,
  • political organizations, like ESPA,
  • I think Duffy has probably had more of a role in that
  • than you, although the two of you together, I think,
  • began the Rochester--
  • MARK SIWIEC: No.
  • That's actually not--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Sue Cowell.
  • MARK SIWIEC: I remember being asked
  • to the first meeting of the Empire State Pride Agenda
  • twenty years ago at a diner on South Avenue.
  • And Dick Dadey was involved at the time.
  • And so I remember knowing of the organization,
  • but not really being involved.
  • I was asked to sit on the board.
  • I sat on the board for literally six weeks,
  • and then my business was taking off, and I had to step aside.
  • Duffy and I meet three years after the organization
  • is founded.
  • And I remember Duffy having a conversation with me one day.
  • And the conversation that Duffy has is--
  • this is four months into our relationship.
  • And he says, I don't know if I can spend the rest of my life
  • with somebody who is as busy as you are.
  • And I remember just trying to figure out, so
  • what do I give up?
  • Do I give up this relationship with this man
  • that I'm falling in love with, or do I
  • give up some of my business or some
  • of my political activities?
  • And my-- the answer that I came up with was to get him involved
  • and to get him busier.
  • And we got him on the board of the Empire State Pride Agenda,
  • and then he took and he ran with that.
  • And he was the state co-chair for six years.
  • He sat on the board for a few years
  • before becoming state co-chair.
  • But it has been a really, really great relationship
  • in that in particular, in when it is that Duffy and I would
  • attend events in New York City for Alan Hevesi, the state
  • comptroller, Eric Schneiderman, or Chuck Schumer, or Eliot
  • Spitzer.
  • I was always great about kicking in the door
  • and getting us in the room as a result of networking.
  • As a result of writing checks, whatever.
  • But anybody who knows us, Duffy then steps in behind me,
  • and he has all the kindness and all the warmth and all
  • the finesse to really then continue the relationships.
  • So it's been a great collaborative effort.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Why are you so committed to the Empire State
  • Pride Agenda?
  • Or why have you been so committed?
  • MARK SIWIEC: The end game for me, and I think for Duffy,
  • was securing marriage equality.
  • And--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Did you think that was going
  • to happen twenty years ago?
  • MARK SIWIEC: No.
  • No.
  • But I knew that whatever it was that was going to play out,
  • I knew that whatever it was that was going to happen,
  • needed to happen in a larger arena.
  • So one of my first political activities, I remember,
  • after I involved myself in Tim Mains's campaign,
  • I remember being asked to host a fundraiser for Rachel--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Heading.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Rachel Heading, exactly.
  • Who was on the school board.
  • And I remember being able to get--
  • and nobody at the time in our community
  • was interested in politics.
  • Nobody had any sense as to how it
  • is that we could become involved politically
  • and what it was that we were going
  • to derive as a result of our political involvement.
  • But I remember hosting a fundraiser in my backyard.
  • I remember grilling hot dogs and hamburgers,
  • and I remember raising $350 for Rachel.
  • And why was that significant, or why was that important?
  • Because it then allowed us to approach Rachel and Cathy Spoto
  • and a few other members of the school board.
  • And we became the first school district in the country
  • not to allow the US military to recruit in our school district.
  • And I remember thinking, my god.
  • If we could do that with $350 and have
  • an impact that was so national in scope, then
  • we should continue.
  • I should continue on in a similar manner.
  • And the Empire State Pride Agenda, in particular,
  • seemed to be a larger stage and a larger arena in which I could
  • involve myself and the efforts and the talents
  • that I thought that I could bring to the table.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: In those years of your political involvement,
  • talk to me a little bit about Sue Cowell.
  • What do you see as her greatest contribution to this community?
  • MARK SIWIEC: Sue Cowell, for me, was always the icon.
  • Sue Cowell was always the face of the community.
  • Sue Cowell was always the one who
  • was most visible and on the forefront of all
  • of these things.
  • So back in the late '70s and early '80s,
  • her involvement in democratic politics,
  • her involvement with Louise Slaughter's campaign.
  • Her having run Tim Mains's first campaign.
  • It was all very-- she was very, very, very visible.
  • And she was the one person that I could
  • turn to figure out how to--
  • I had energy, and I had interest,
  • but I didn't know how to engage myself in the process
  • or involve myself in the process.
  • So I think that her greatest accomplishment was the fact
  • that she was just so visible and was enjoying so much success.
  • But then soon I became best friends, for just years.
  • And she's still a dear friend.
  • But during that period of time, it was very intense.
  • There wasn't a day that went by that Sue and I didn't
  • speak to each other two or three times a day to figure out--
  • she ran Susan John's campaign.
  • And she got me involved in Susan John.
  • And she just-- if Sue was running something,
  • then the phone would ring, and then
  • I would be standing right next to her, by her side.
  • I remember going to Albany, and I
  • remember her challenging elected officials in Albany in a way
  • that-- and I remember, it was there
  • were three or four candidates running for attorney general
  • on the Democratic side of the aisle.
  • And I remember, there was a question
  • that was posed by a member of the audience
  • about gay and lesbian civil rights.
  • And it was a gay lesbian group, but nevertheless, somebody
  • had posed the question, and all three candidates just
  • obfuscated.
  • They didn't give the--
  • they didn't give an answer, they just
  • tap danced around an answer.
  • And I remember Sue just--
  • (bangs table) she slammed her-- she was like, that's it.
  • Enough.
  • We as a community are no longer going
  • to take this kind of answer.
  • This is bullshit.
  • And she says this publicly.
  • And the room just went dead silent.
  • And everybody just turned and looked.
  • And we turned back, and you could just
  • sense that there was a sea change that
  • had occurred in our community.
  • That these three men probably, and one woman would no longer--
  • were no longer allowed the opportunity to spoon
  • feed us the garbage that they were up until that point
  • in time.
  • So she was a pioneer.
  • She's an icon.
  • She's my mentor, and we all owe her
  • an enormous, enormous degree of gratitude.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And along those lines,
  • who would you say in Rochester was
  • the most visible political person who
  • moved the agenda of the gay community?
  • MARK SIWIEC: There were three names.
  • There are three names that come to mind.
  • Obviously, the most publicly visible, was Tim Mains.
  • He was the first openly gay elected official
  • in the city of Rochester, in Monroe County.
  • So a lot of credit, a great deal of credit,
  • has to be given to Tim.
  • But behind the scenes, there was Sue.
  • And I wasn't there at the time.
  • But I would venture to guess that it
  • would have been much more difficult Sue's involvement.
  • And Sue's involvement was much larger,
  • in that she was involved in a lot of different campaigns.
  • But the other person, and you probably
  • haven't heard anybody mention, but Fran Weisberg,
  • who is the chair of the local Democratic Party.
  • And Fran always saw to it that members of the gay and lesbian
  • community had a seat at the table in whatever it
  • was that was going on at sixty-five West Broad, which
  • was the address of Democratic Headquarters.
  • And she didn't need to engage our community.
  • She didn't need to involve our community.
  • But she always made sure that the door was open.
  • She always made sure that we had a seat at the table.
  • And whether it was Tim's first campaign
  • or his second campaign, or whether it's
  • Susan John's first run for state assembly,
  • it didn't matter what the campaign
  • was, Fran empowered us.
  • And we as a community owe her a great deal of gratitude.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I haven't heard that name, as a matter of fact.
  • You are the first person who's really mentioned it
  • as someone that the community--
  • worked behind the scenes that the community really
  • wasn't aware of.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Not to denigrate.
  • But have you spoken to anybody else who
  • was involved in democratic politics other than Sue?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Tim.
  • Bill Pritchard.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Bill wasn't involved at that point in time.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Tim Tompkins.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Tim Tompkins wasn't involved at that point in time.
  • Tim only got involved--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And we haven't interviewed,
  • of course, Susan John.
  • She's really gone under the radar.
  • But Sue did not mention Fran Weisberg, and we--
  • MARK SIWIEC: Sue and Tim would be the two.
  • Because there were--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And Tim, we interviewed Tim for three hours
  • on tape.
  • And did not-- that name was not mentioned.
  • MARK SIWIEC: She was amazing.
  • She was amazing.
  • Oh, she--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And that was the other question
  • I was going to ask you.
  • Who do we need to talk to.
  • Fran Weisberg I will definitely get in touch with.
  • Besides Fran Weisberg, who in this community
  • has stepped up to the plate?
  • Who has been, maybe, the unsung hero or behind the scenes,
  • doing all the stuff that needs to be done that makes
  • what we do successful?
  • MARK SIWIEC: At least in terms of my involvement,
  • going back to the early '80s, it was definitely--
  • and again, my focus was all political.
  • So it would definitely be Sue Cowell.
  • It would definitely be Fran Weisberg.
  • It would definitely be Tim Mains.
  • Yeah.
  • So.
  • And then what starts to happen after that is then
  • my focus became less--
  • turn it off for just a second.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Your first introductions and activity
  • in political arena.
  • You talked a little bit about Sue Cowell and working
  • on Tim Mains's first campaign.
  • But beyond that, you have moved in other directions,
  • on other levels.
  • And I've got a call in to Fran Weisberg,
  • and she has yet to get back to me.
  • But I'm not sure she's like Duffy, but-- (laughs)
  • MARK SIWIEC: Let me tell you-- (recording switched off)
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And the other thing, Mark,
  • I would love to have your comments
  • on the progression from where you entered
  • the community to where it is now,
  • in terms of some of the political things that
  • have happened.
  • Some of the social things that have happened.
  • Some of your reflection on why marriage equality really
  • worked in this state.
  • I mean, yes.
  • It was the lieutenant governor, and yes, it
  • was the four Republicans who came over to our side.
  • But why New York?
  • Why here?
  • Where were the activism--
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You know?
  • MARK SIWIEC: Well, everybody points to New York City,
  • but I think the parallels between New York
  • and Rochester are astounding.
  • Because if you think about Stonewall taking
  • place in the late '60s, and there was this movement that
  • came about as a result of that.
  • But if you look at the history of LGBT Rochester,
  • similar things were going on in Rochester.
  • No, there weren't riots, necessarily.
  • But there was organization that was taking place
  • in Rochester in the late '60s.
  • In the early '70s.
  • You know about that far more and far better than I do.
  • But it's as a result of that early organizing
  • and the Gay Alliance being formed in the early '70s.
  • And the Empty Closet being formed in the early '70s.
  • And thank god for the Empty Closet, because that
  • was a way of very, very quietly and very
  • surreptitiously being able to grab a newspaper
  • and having some kind of ability to communicate and connect
  • with the gay and lesbian community
  • by going to Parkleigh, for instance, back
  • in the late '70s, early '80s.
  • And you could grab that publication
  • and walk out without fear of being chastised.
  • Without fear of reprisal.
  • Without fear of ridicule.
  • So that kind of organizing, I think, was very, very exciting.
  • And so if you've got that going on here in Rochester,
  • and it starts to grow and it starts developing,
  • if you've got it going on in New York City,
  • and if the communities in both New York
  • and in Rochester, and then to a lesser degree, Syracuse
  • and Buffalo, as we became more and more sophisticated--
  • Sue Cowell always talks about raising money
  • for AIDS Rochester.
  • And she began to realize that you could schlep up and down
  • stairs in a gay bar in Rochester with cases
  • of beer at the beginning of the night
  • and at the end of the night, and you could hold a fundraiser
  • and put a lot of effort into it and raise,
  • if you were fortunate, $1,200.
  • Or you could start to raise larger sums of money
  • by getting people into a room by wearing business attire
  • and asking for bigger checks and raise $5,000.
  • And it was a result of that kind of thing
  • that allowed our community to start to become a force
  • to be reckoned with in the eyes of the politicians
  • throughout the state of New York.
  • So I'll never forget--
  • and part of this, speaking-- go ahead.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I get it.
  • I get it.
  • Where are the relationships, though?
  • MARK SIWIEC: So here's relationships.
  • So as a result of some of my earlier activities,
  • I found myself picking up a guy whose name
  • was Congressman Chuck Schumer, out of New York City.
  • This is going back when he decided
  • that he was going to run for the United States Senate.
  • So I pick I pick Congressman Schumer up in my car,
  • and he flies in on a commercial plane, arrives at the airport.
  • I greet him.
  • We walk to my car.
  • We drive off.
  • He comes back a few weeks later, and this is, by the way,
  • in concert with Duffy, who is with me.
  • And then and then artist Mangione,
  • who's now married to Steve Lindley, who's
  • in the appellate division.
  • Chuck would come in again, and he
  • would have a second person with him, an aide.
  • And then he would have a third person with him.
  • And then as the months were progressing, all of a sudden,
  • they weren't walking to the car, but they started--
  • they would jog to the car.
  • And I wasn't going inside to meet them.
  • I had the car running outside.
  • And then by the end of that campaign, literally
  • you would have six people running--
  • touching down in a private jet and then running
  • from the private jet, piling into my car,
  • one on top of another, and we would race off
  • to four events, one after another after another.
  • And as a result of that kind of relationship,
  • I started doing all the fundraising for Chuck locally.
  • And I'll never forget.
  • We did an event--
  • I didn't have any money at the time.
  • I didn't have an appropriate residence
  • in which to hold a fundraiser in which the political donors
  • in Rochester could gather.
  • But as a result of that kind of relationship,
  • we did an event for Chuck in which we raised, I think,
  • $100,000.
  • And this was going back sixteen, seventeen years.
  • It's a result of those kinds of relationships
  • that we, as members of the gay and lesbian community,
  • were developing that allowed for us to then approach
  • these men and women, these elected officials,
  • and say we need marriage equality
  • in the state of New York.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Who, besides yourself and Duffy,
  • were among the group of people who moved that agenda?
  • Who moved the money?
  • Who moved-- I mean, I'm not asking for fundraising names.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Here in Rochester?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Here in Rochester.
  • MARK SIWIEC: From the gay and lesbian community?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Early on, it was Duffy and I. Early on it was.
  • Yeah.
  • And thankfully-- I don't say that out of hubris.
  • But thankfully then, you get other members
  • of the community who begin to--
  • because Tim was elected to city council,
  • but Tim was very much doing his own thing.
  • And he didn't have very much of a relationship
  • with any of the electeds out of New York City.
  • But as a result of my relationship with the Empire
  • State Pride Agenda and his relationship, Duffy's
  • relationship, we knew these men and women
  • in New York City who were running for statewide office.
  • But actually, so it was basically Duffy
  • and myself, because of our relationship with these men
  • and women in New York.
  • So when they were doing their dog and pony
  • show throughout the state--
  • so there's a guy named Eliot Spitzer who
  • decides that he wants to run for attorney general
  • of the state of New York.
  • So I'm asked to attend a dinner.
  • Why?
  • Because nobody else wants to go in and have
  • dinner with this guy named Eliot Spitzer.
  • So I show up, and it was a miserable, terrible dinner.
  • It was boring.
  • There was nothing going on.
  • There were seven of us sitting at the table.
  • And as everybody was getting ready to leave,
  • I said, well, but Mr. Spitzer, I don't
  • know whether I should actually vote for you or not
  • for attorney general.
  • There are three issues that are very important to me
  • as a potential voter.
  • One issue is the death penalty.
  • Another issue is a woman's right to choose.
  • And the third issue is gay and lesbian civil rights.
  • And all of a sudden, the seven people at the table
  • decided to sit back down, and for another hour and a half,
  • we sat there.
  • And Eliot starts by saying, OK, Mark.
  • You and I are going to agree on two of these,
  • but not on the third issue.
  • And I'll tell you that I'm supportive of
  • gay and lesbian civil rights.
  • And it was as a result of that dinner
  • that I then started raising all the money for Eliot locally
  • and became his local guy, if you will.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: How did you become connected
  • with ESPA I mean, you and Duffy started ESPA up here, but it--
  • MARK SIWIEC: No, no.
  • No, Sue was state chair.
  • And (laughs) actually, the way that--
  • I was on the board of the Empire State Pride Agenda
  • for about two months before I realized that my business was
  • taking off, and I had to step down and resign from the board.
  • I meet Duffy, and probably four or six months
  • into our relationship, Duffy says to me, Mark,
  • this is going really well, but I'm not quite sure
  • if I can spend the rest of my life
  • with somebody who's as busy as you are.
  • And I was devastated.
  • I was completely devastated by this.
  • And I had determined to figure out whether or not
  • I was going to remain faithful to Duffy
  • or remain faithful to myself and my intended goals
  • as a businessman.
  • And my solution was to turn to Sue Cowell and say,
  • we need to get Duffy on the board of the Empire State Pride
  • Agenda.
  • And Sue, thankfully, agreed to get him on the board.
  • And as a result of that, he started
  • to fly in and out of New York and then ultimately took over
  • from Sue and became state chair and was
  • state co-chair for six years.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: How did ESPA begin?
  • Do you know?
  • MARK SIWIEC: The Empire State Pride Agenda
  • began twenty years ago as a result of Libby Post
  • and Dick Dadey and a few others realizing
  • that the splintered interests and attempts and efforts
  • on the part of the gay and lesbian community in New York
  • just weren't working.
  • So FairPAC and a few other organizations
  • came together to create the Empire State Pride Agenda.
  • And they started to--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And when did you go on to-- or when did
  • maybe Sue go on the board.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Well, I remember having--
  • there was a diner on South Avenue,
  • and I remember going to that diner twenty years ago.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Highland Park?
  • MARK SIWIEC: Oh, it was on South Avenue.
  • So I think it was a lesbian-owned diner that
  • was run for just a few-- a short while.
  • And I remember going to that, and it
  • was one of the first organizing meetings.
  • And because I was so close with Sue,
  • that whatever Sue was doing with the Appreciate Pride Agenda
  • by default, I was involved in one way or another.
  • And that's yeah.
  • So but actually, back to you had asked a question a while ago,
  • and I think it's really sort of interesting.
  • I do recollect-- and this goes back
  • to how were these relationships developed,
  • and how did they form.
  • I remember, because of my involvement
  • in politics, Jine's Diner.
  • And this is going back seventeen years or something.
  • And the deputy mayor at the time was having breakfast
  • with the chief of police.
  • And Jeff says to me, do you Bob Duffy?
  • And I said, no.
  • I've heard great things about you.
  • My name's Mark Siwiec.
  • Nice to meet you.
  • And I said, hey, listen.
  • I've got to get out of here.
  • I'm going to pick up Congressman Chuck Schumer.
  • He's flying from New York.
  • He's going to be campaigning.
  • I said, as long as I'm going to be sitting with him,
  • do either of you need anything?
  • And Bob Duffy says, yeah.
  • As a matter of fact, we applied for something
  • called a cop's grant.
  • And it was a $500,000 grant to get new radios
  • for the Rochester police department.
  • If the approval didn't come through
  • within the next twenty-four hours, then that was it.
  • There was no possible way of securing that money.
  • So I said, well, let me mention it to him.
  • So I get in the car, I'm driving Chuck along.
  • And I said, hey, by the way, the chief of police
  • is looking for some assistance, some help with the cop's grant.
  • Can you help out in any way?
  • So he says to the guy, his aide, who's
  • sitting in the backseat, hey, get Jan on the phone.
  • And the guy in the backseat dials up the cell phone, hands
  • the phone to Chuck, and a minute and a half later, he says,
  • I just got off the phone with Janet Reno.
  • Janet says the $500,000 grant is taken care of.
  • I'll call the chief and let him know that it's a done deal.
  • It was as simple as that.
  • As a result of that, I get to pick up the phone,
  • call this guy named Bob Duffy, and say, hey, Bob.
  • Just want to let you know that your cop grant is secured.
  • As a result of that, we ended up having dinner with he
  • and Barbara a short while later, and that was
  • the start of that friendship.
  • So it's just trying to raise the money for these electeds,
  • do favors for the electeds, give back and give back again.
  • Give back again.
  • Knowing full well that eventually there's
  • going to come a day and a time where
  • you're going to turn to somebody and lobby them
  • for the passage of gay and lesbian civil rights.
  • And indeed, I mean, there's no better example, at least
  • from my sense, than Bob Duffy.
  • A guy who we helped to get into office as mayor
  • of the city of Rochester.
  • A gentleman who was not supportive of marriage equality
  • on the day that he was sworn into office,
  • but who, as a result of our friendship
  • and the many, many friendships he developed
  • with the members of our community,
  • were able to move him and get him to come out
  • as a very, very strong ally.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were you acquainted at all Apuzzo?
  • Ginny Apuzzo?
  • MARK SIWIEC: Ginny Apuzzo.
  • No.
  • I did not know Ginny.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Or the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force?
  • MARK SIWIEC: No.
  • No.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Here in Rochester, labor came on board
  • with Pride at Work.
  • And what role does--
  • what role did labor play in moving the marriage equality
  • agenda?
  • Do you know?
  • MARK SIWIEC: I know that Alan van Capelle, when
  • he was the executive director of the Empire State Pride Agenda,
  • realized--
  • he came from the labor movement.
  • And he realized the importance of getting
  • like-minded coalitions and factions of individuals
  • to come together with us so that if labor needed a favor,
  • then members of the gay and lesbian community
  • were going to be there to protest or to walk picket lines
  • or to make phone calls.
  • But we also--
  • Alan was smart enough to realize that in exchange,
  • when we needed help in terms of lobbying
  • our electeds in Albany, that we would need them.
  • And sure enough, one after another, they just
  • came on board, and they said, yep.
  • This union-- one after another, unions came on board
  • and began to support our desires.
  • So and he did that not only with labor,
  • but he also did that, obviously, with the religious community.
  • Did that with women's groups and abortion rights groups.
  • He was brilliant.
  • He was brilliant in terms of being
  • able to create coalitions.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And from your perspective,
  • looking back and looking ahead, where are we?
  • MARK SIWIEC: Oh, dear god.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: We've come a long way, but there's further to go.
  • What-- I mean, I don't think gender
  • has passed the state yet.
  • MARK SIWIEC: No.
  • It passes the assembly time and time again.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And that's probably the next hurdle.
  • But with the repeal of DOMA and actually,
  • the movement forward of LGBT men and women
  • to get married, the question becomes,
  • with gender, how do you maneuver gender, transgender into that,
  • and how do they identify-- well, it's not a question for you.
  • But how does the state deal with a man who's a woman.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
  • It's actually going to happen in the state of New York.
  • However, it's a matter of timing.
  • So thankfully we have, at this point
  • in time, a governor, a lieutenant governor,
  • a comptroller, an attorney general, and an assembly,
  • all of whom are in favor of passage of agenda.
  • We have a state Senate that's controlled at the moment
  • by the Republican Party.
  • There is going to come a point in time,
  • sometime in the next short while,
  • where the deal will be cut, and the legislation will pass.
  • It's going to pass.
  • It's just a matter of what is the timing going to be like,
  • and when is it.
  • And it will most likely-- in my mind,
  • it will most likely come as a result of the gay and lesbian
  • community coming out in favor of the re-election
  • efforts of Andrew Cuomo.
  • At that point in time, we'll have once again
  • provided the necessary funding and the chits
  • so we can turn around and say, OK.
  • Great.
  • We helped to get you re-elected.
  • We've raised you x number of dollars.
  • Now get this passage taken care of.
  • Get this bill passed and taken care of for us.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: This may be more a political question,
  • but why do the Democrats seem to be the party that's pro-LGBT,
  • and the Republicans are not?
  • I mean, I'm not as familiar with Republican ideology as I am--
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Does it have to do with--
  • it has to do with platforms, and it has to do with--
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
  • I mean, yeah.
  • But the Democratic Party is--
  • is this, by the way?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
  • MARK SIWIEC: OK.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What in Rochester has created the environment
  • of inclusion that seems to be the underpinnings,
  • the undercurrent of all of social justice movements,
  • social welfare, social--
  • what is it?
  • MARK SIWIEC: I'm not going to be able to speak to this
  • as eloquently as a historian.
  • However, when you go back and look
  • at the history of Rochester, you go back 120 years,
  • and you see people like Frederick Douglass
  • and people like Susan B. Anthony.
  • And there's all sorts of conversation
  • about George Eastman was probably gay.
  • And there's nobody in the history of Rochester
  • who's more important than George Eastman.
  • And he was probably a gay man.
  • And you've got at least three men who were probably
  • gay mayors of the city of Rochester
  • throughout the twentieth century.
  • So I was always shocked when I came here in '83,
  • having come from Buffalo, where the mayor
  • of the city of Buffalo, Jimmy Griffin,
  • used to talk about queers and pansies and fags.
  • And he used to do so publicly, and I used to,
  • as a seven-year-old boy, lie in bed at night listening
  • to this rhetoric, understanding and realizing
  • that I could never, ever come out,
  • and I could certainly never, ever
  • have any straight men as friends.
  • And then you come to Rochester at the age of eighteen
  • or nineteen, and you begin to realize and understand
  • that this is a community in which that kind of language
  • and that kind of rhetoric was not accepted.
  • It was not acceptable.
  • That people did not speak or use language like that.
  • And this is just--
  • and I also began to realize that it wasn't the only one.
  • That people were coming from Canandaigua,
  • and they were coming from Syracuse,
  • and they were coming from Buffalo and Niagara Falls.
  • This community was a magnet for gay men and lesbians
  • from throughout upstate New York.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Why?
  • MARK SIWIEC: Because of the history that I just described.
  • Because we-- because of the history of Rochester.
  • Because of Susan B. Anthony and Frederick Douglass and George
  • Eastman and three gay mayors.
  • There was a sense of progression, progressivity,
  • if you will.
  • There was a sense of acceptance, of tolerance
  • that you didn't enjoy or experience
  • in other cities in upstate New York.
  • You didn't see this kind of thing happening in Syracuse.
  • They didn't have-- you didn't see this kind of thing
  • happening in Buffalo.
  • You didn't see it happening in Niagara Falls.
  • Why?
  • Because they didn't have the same history.
  • They didn't have leaders of their communities
  • who were either gay or who were so socially progressive.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Who today are the torchbearers?
  • MARK SIWIEC: I wish I knew, Evelyn.
  • And what I mean by that is--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Who are the leaders that are currently
  • working toward gay rights, civil rights, human rights.
  • However you want to cloak that, for our community.
  • And along with that, what kind of impetus or energy
  • is there that's left.
  • MARK SIWIEC: I think one of the interesting--
  • as I'm struggling to answer the question,
  • I'm beginning to realize why it is that I'm struggling
  • to answer the question.
  • Because we've been so successful locally and statewide
  • at helping to secure gay and lesbian civil rights,
  • we don't have a core group of gay men and lesbians.
  • Go back twenty years, you and I knew each other very,
  • very well.
  • Claire and I knew each other very well.
  • Sue Cowell, Tim Mains.
  • There were twenty-five of us.
  • We knew each other, and we knew how
  • to get in touch with each other, and we had each other's backs,
  • and we were all focused on a singular goal, which was
  • gay and lesbian civil rights.
  • as broadly defined as it was.
  • Well, fast forward twenty, twenty-five years.
  • We've done so well in helping to secure civil rights
  • for ourselves, for our community,
  • that you now see actions that are forming.
  • And not in a pejorative sense of the term of the word,
  • but factions.
  • So you now have gay men and lesbians
  • who are active in their religious organizations
  • and in other faith communities.
  • And you've got gay men and lesbians
  • who are involved and active in politics.
  • And you've got grassroots activists.
  • And then you've got people who are involved in the arts
  • or they're sitting in corporate boards
  • or on philanthropic boards.
  • You've got gay men and lesbians who are involved in business.
  • We didn't have that privilege.
  • I mean, we had one focus and one sole intent,
  • going back twenty-five years.
  • And now we've got the privilege of all
  • spreading out and influencing our community through all
  • of the many, many, many different organizations
  • that our community is now involved in.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But how do you perceive that group or those
  • people coming together to not only move our wishes,
  • but creating and continuing to create the environment which
  • will allow LGBT men, Hispanics, African-Americans,
  • to become involved and to open it up so that--
  • I mean, before, Eastman, Long, all those people met.
  • They talked.
  • They knew each other.
  • And that was happening in politics
  • with Moran and (unintelligible) Moran and--
  • MARK SIWIEC: Ryan.
  • Tom Ryan.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Tom Ryan.
  • On The Monday morning breakfast group.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
  • Does Does that exist today?
  • MARK SIWIEC: It doesn't exist for me.
  • I mean, speaking--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I mean does it exist.
  • MARK SIWIEC: It doesn't exist for me.
  • And whether or not it exists for others, I don't know.
  • Do I think that it does?
  • No.
  • I think that I know who the players are,
  • and I think the players know who I am.
  • I can only speak for myself by saying,
  • I don't think it exists.
  • But if there were a crisis, if there
  • were some imperative, some impetus, some reason
  • for us to come together again as a community,
  • it would happen overnight.
  • We could gather together.
  • When I was on the board of the Empire State Pride Agenda,
  • I used to do these monthly meetings.
  • And we would get twelve or fifteen people into a room.
  • Why Because of the splintering that I described a short while
  • ago.
  • There were just so many different organizations and so
  • many different people involved in so many different ways.
  • So we were trying to come together so that we could all
  • get on the same page.
  • And this is just before marriage equality passed in the state.
  • Marriage equality passes, yes, we still have an agenda,
  • and we still need to pass agenda.
  • But the imperative has very, very, very quickly diminished.
  • The need to gather very quickly diminished
  • as a result of passage of marriage equality.
  • And as I said, I think that if there was a reason
  • to come together, if there was a crisis of some sort,
  • it could be recreated again overnight.
  • Because even though I don't necessarily
  • know a lot of the activists who are out there or a lot
  • of the members of the gay and lesbian community
  • and the African-American or Hispanic
  • or the faith community, I know who they are.
  • They know-- and vise versa.
  • We could come together, and we could
  • march forward and move forward in whatever way we might need.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • Let me ask you, perhaps, a less comfortable question.
  • We have upstate New York, and you have downstate New York.
  • Both very different communities.
  • What has bridged the gap?
  • In other words, we were often seen as those people
  • up there who didn't have any power.
  • Didn't have any money.
  • Didn't he any blah, blah, blah.
  • And everything was focused on New York City.
  • In downstate.
  • My perception is that has shifted.
  • It has leveled off to some degree.
  • And I don't want to put words in your mouth,
  • but I think a lot of that has to do with the political activism
  • that has sprung up in this community
  • and the ability of, say, a Xerox Corporation in Rochester, New
  • York to call on headquarters in Norwalk, Connecticut
  • and have them sign on to marriage equality.
  • So it wasn't New York City that got a major corporation
  • to sign on.
  • It was upstate.
  • Why has-- are we still looked upon as that piece of New York
  • up there that doesn't play a major role,
  • or has that changed?
  • MARK SIWIEC: I think everything post-marriage has changed.
  • I don't think, frankly, anybody in New York City
  • really is paying attention to any of us any longer.
  • Why?
  • Because again, the focus and the intent.
  • I mean, so much of the need to organize
  • and so much of the need to be active and involved
  • and engaged politically.
  • And otherwise, I think that if you look at our movement
  • statewide, the number of people who attend Empire State Pride
  • Agenda dinners in New York is starting to diminish.
  • The amount of money they're raising
  • is starting to diminish.
  • And people's intent and their focus
  • are starting to turn elsewhere.
  • So for instance, I may be a good example.
  • I stepped off the board of the Empire State Pride Agenda
  • this past spring.
  • Why?
  • Because I felt comfortable helping
  • to secure gay and lesbian marriage
  • in the state of New York.
  • Great.
  • So I step off the board of the Empire State Pride Agenda.
  • Why?
  • Because I didn't have the focus and the intent
  • that I had had for twenty-five years moving forward.
  • Instead, now on the board of the Rochester Philharmonic
  • Orchestra, and I'm on the board of MCC.
  • Those are the organizations that are compelling to me
  • at this point in time.
  • And I think that by being engaged and involved
  • in those organizations, I'm able to help
  • the gay and lesbian community locally
  • by once again just being one more
  • member of the community who's involved and engaged in things
  • outside of things that are strictly and solely LGBT.
  • Is that making sense?
  • Am I making any sense?
  • No?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: It does from this perspective.
  • That I think it's interesting you really
  • believe that if a crisis occurred,
  • we could gather the energy and the people
  • together and confront that crisis, whatever it is.
  • But in the meantime, we become a part of the larger community
  • to affect change within each of those structures that
  • would be beneficial to the LGBT community.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Absolutely.
  • There was always this fear going back
  • twenty-five years, thirty years, of assimilation.
  • You had all these people who were
  • so terrified of assimilating.
  • I'm not quite sure why it was they were fearful of,
  • or what their concerns were.
  • But indeed, I think that's happened.
  • I mean, the fact--
  • I don't think that anybody really
  • cares any longer in this community
  • whether or not I'm a gay man or whether or not
  • you're a lesbian.
  • You just walk into a room with your partner,
  • and people ask for another glass of wine.
  • There's no question about who this man is
  • who's standing next to you.
  • So as a result of that, people just--
  • people are just allowing us to be.
  • And that's precisely and exactly what we--
  • I've always said Duffy, and I've always said to others,
  • I don't want to be controversial.
  • I don't want any need to have a pride parade.
  • I want to be as boring as possible.
  • Why do I want to be as boring as possible?
  • Because the more boring I am, the more likely
  • it is that we've secured what we've set out to achieve,
  • which is our civil rights.
  • Equality in the eyes of our colleagues,
  • in the eyes of our colleagues.
  • So.
  • But I truly-- I mean, I really--
  • if there was a crisis.
  • If there was another epidemic of any sort.
  • If there was a political mandate of some sort of that
  • demanded that we organize, there is no doubt in my mind
  • that within twenty-four hours, we would
  • have 100 people in a room.
  • 100 strong activists involved and engaged to immediately go
  • out and set about doing what it is that we need
  • to do to resolve and organize.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What are your goals, personally?
  • MARK SIWIEC: My goals on behalf of the--
  • the goals are so--
  • the goals are so less lofty than they were.
  • The goals for so long were simply to organize.
  • The goals for so long were to secure nondiscrimination acts.
  • And then the goal was just to secure acceptance
  • in the eyes of and diminish controversy or overt
  • oppression.
  • And then the goals were lofty in that we
  • wanted marriage equality.
  • Now that we've achieved most of that,
  • there's one legislative goal, really, which is GENDA.
  • And then I think a lot of the politics has been set aside,
  • and I think the goal then is just to make sure
  • that in the same way that our heterosexual colleagues has
  • social service agencies that take care
  • of the elderly and the young, I think
  • that our community, in order to move forward,
  • really needs to make sure that we're focused on gay youth
  • and suicide and drug addiction.
  • And that we're focused on taking care of our elders
  • and making sure that they are taken care of in their waning
  • years.
  • Those are my goals.
  • I mean, the goals are would be just to go about our life
  • and just enjoy all it is that we've worked so hard to achieve
  • over the course of the past thirty, thirty-five years.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: The future generations.
  • Do you see--
  • I mean, you're out in the community.
  • Yes, it's a very focused community.
  • Those that want to buy homes, those that want
  • to sell homes, those that--
  • but they're all over the place.
  • Neighborhoods are not what they used to be.
  • Towns are not what they used to be.
  • There was a tremendous backlash in the county this past Pride
  • over Maggie Brooks not being open to flying the gay flag.
  • Rochester is a very enclosed area.
  • Once you move out into the suburbs,
  • the effect is not the same.
  • There are people who are LGBT who do not necessarily
  • feel safe coming out in some of those outlying areas
  • that we would see as very progressive.
  • What role does the LGBT community
  • play in terms of county movement?
  • In terms of yeah, it's fine to live
  • in the city of Rochester and--
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
  • I think that we need to just continue
  • doing the work that we've done for the past twenty,
  • twenty-five, thirty years, which is just continuing to demand
  • the respect of our colleagues.
  • So if you're living in Parma or Gates or Greece,
  • or if you're living in Webster or Victor--
  • Duffy and I have a place down in Hammondsport.
  • And there was a lot of concern on our part
  • that when we got down there, we were told not to--
  • I was told not to drive the Mercedes and that we should not
  • hold hands or overtly express our commitment to one
  • another in that community.
  • Well, it was nonsense.
  • Complete nonsense.
  • We went about our daily existence
  • down there exactly as we do up here.
  • We demand respect of the people around us.
  • And there's no controversy whatsoever.
  • And I think that we as a community just
  • need to continue to do the same, so that no matter where
  • it is that you're living, no matter
  • where it is that you're spending your time,
  • you're demanding of those around you
  • the same respect that you deserve.
  • That you deserve.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
  • I'm not saying it's easy.
  • And I realize that financial privilege allows for an easier
  • ability to demand that respect.
  • But thankfully, we are organized as a community.
  • And thankfully, we've got our--
  • we've got the backs of the members of our community.
  • So I'm not being particularly eloquent here, sorry.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: That's all right.
  • MARK SIWIEC: But actually--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Last time we talked, I
  • asked you what you were most proud of, in terms
  • of looking back over your life.
  • My final question to you is you have
  • sitting before you a seventeen-year-old gay male who
  • isn't out.
  • What would you say to him?
  • MARK SIWIEC: I would tell him that it's going to be OK.
  • That it's going to be perfectly fine.
  • That he's going to, as a gay man,
  • find the courage to come out and enjoy the most
  • remarkable and fulfilling life.
  • And that he's going to find a partner,
  • and all the dreams that are foisted upon us
  • from childhood on, as we're watching television,
  • or we're listening to music, or we're going to the movies,
  • all of the romance that one sees that is enjoyed almost
  • exclusively by the heterosexual community
  • is the same romance and the same success
  • and the same joy that he is going
  • to enjoy as a seventeen-year-old male moving forward
  • in his life.
  • He just needs to find the courage,
  • and there are people there to help him
  • get through that initial hump.
  • And once that's done, it's easy sailing and beautiful
  • from there on in.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, thank you very much.
  • MARK SIWIEC: This was great.
  • Thanks.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And hopefully the next twenty years
  • will be as fulfilling and happy as the past twenty have been.
  • MARK SIWIEC: Yeah, yeah.
  • For all of us.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.