Audio Interview, Mark Siewic, May 29, 2013
- EVELYN BAILEY: --where I usually begin.
- Today is May 29, and I'm sitting with Mark Siwiec,
- at his Nothnagel office in Brighton.
- And Mark was involved with the Gay Alliance
- and has been involved with LGBT issues most of his life.
- But I want to ask you, Mark, were you born in Rochester?
- MARK SIWIEC: No.
- I was born in Buffalo in 1965.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And when did you come to Rochester?
- MARK SIWIEC: '83, when I started at the U of R. So actually--
- and I realize we're talking about Rochester--
- but it's probably important to say
- that one of the reasons I came to Rochester
- and ended up staying here and loving it
- was because in Buffalo, my dad was a cop,
- and I grew up with a bunch of cops,
- and it was a very blue collar, very Catholic town.
- And I remember listening to AM radio
- late at night when I was a little kid.
- And the mayor, Jimmy Griffin, used
- to talk about pansies and fags and queers.
- And that was the public rhetoric.
- And I was shocked when I came here
- in '83 to very quickly and very soon
- realize that that kind of language
- wasn't accepted here in Rochester.
- That that kind of language was forbidden.
- That people, even if they didn't necessarily approve of gay
- and lesbian and their quote, unquote "lifestyle,"
- they didn't--
- they would never think about using that kind of language
- publicly.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And when you came to the U of R,
- you got involved, though, with the LGBT group on campus.
- Correct?
- MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Do you remember what it was called?
- MARK SIWIEC: No.
- I don't. (laughs)--
- I'm forty-eight years old now.
- I have no idea what that one was called.
- So no.
- But I'll think about that, yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The Pride Alliance?
- MARK SIWIEC: No.
- I'll think--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Gay Academic Union?
- MARK SIWIEC: No, no.
- I'll think about it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So when you got involved with that group,
- on campus, what was the response to that group?
- Was-- I mean, there was obviously some homophobia.
- But overall?
- MARK SIWIEC: There wasn't a lot of response.
- And the reason there wasn't a lot of response
- was because even though we were meeting,
- and we were given a room in the psych building, of all places.
- I mean, but we were given a room in the psych building.
- And it was sort of in a lower level,
- sort of far away from traffic.
- Pedestrian traffic.
- So that if somebody wanted to attend a meeting,
- they could do so without fear of being seen walking into a room.
- And so we basically didn't have much
- of a public presence on campus.
- We were basically an organization
- that was meeting weekly to talk about strategies of coming out.
- To talk about gay and lesbian oppression.
- That kind of thing.
- You know, there was a lot of--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, that was 1983.
- MARK SIWIEC: I graduated in '83.
- So this is '85.
- EVELYN BAILEY: '85.
- MARK SIWIEC: And so there was--
- it was just at that point in time when I--
- and it's so funny.
- Because I think back.
- This was 1985, and I think back, like, when I was at the U of R
- in '85, when I started the U of R in '83,
- I used to think about gay and lesbian history
- as being ancient history.
- When in reality, it was only like ten, fifteen years old.
- But in my mind, it was ancient history.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So even in '85, there
- was this concern of an aura of fear of coming out?
- MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Absolutely.
- Absolutely.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Among students?
- MARK SIWIEC: Among students.
- I mean, we only had probably twenty-five or so members.
- I mean, high school today have twenty-five members.
- But back then-- in their gay student unions.
- But we were only able-- and the reality is,
- and I don't mean to demean anybody,
- but the reality is that those who were attending,
- they were kind of misfits.
- They were sort of-- it was the land of misfit toys.
- So there weren't any quote, unquote, "popular" kids
- from campus who were part of our group.
- And I remember, among the things that we would do, once a year,
- we would be invited to a few psych classes, Psych 101,
- to talk about the fact that we're normal.
- The fact that this isn't a psychological disease.
- This isn't an illness.
- And a lot of what we were trying to do
- was break stereotypes at that point in time.
- There was very, very little conversation about politics.
- There was very little conversation
- about a political agenda of any sort.
- It was really, at that point in time, still about organizing.
- And probably the same way the Gay Alliance was organizing
- in the ten years before that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So how did you find, eventually, because you
- did find, the Gay Alliance?
- I mean, was there a connection between the U of R and the Gay
- Alliance, or was it primarily by well,
- computers weren't even like--
- MARK SIWIEC: For those who know me, I'm rather headstrong.
- So--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, energetic.
- MARK SIWIEC: (laughs) And so I took the energy
- that I had in regard to gay and lesbian
- civil rights and my experience on the U of R campus,
- and I became involved the Gay Alliance, actually,
- through Tim Maines.
- And I remember after I graduated--
- EVELYN BAILEY: What was your connection with Tim?
- MARK SIWIEC: After I graduated from the U of R,
- I remember reading in the Empty Closet
- that Tim was running for re-election to city council.
- And I remember going to Broadway and knocking on a door,
- and I remember, literally, my hand--
- I was shaking.
- My hand was shaking as I knocked on the door,
- rang the doorbell, whatever it was.
- And it was Don Belac's house.
- And I said, my name is Mark Siwiec,
- and I'd like to volunteer if I could.
- And I was escorted in, and I was put
- to work stuffing envelopes and working on a mailing.
- And so it was as a result of that
- that I had gotten to know Sue Cowell,
- and as a result of that, all the pieces then
- start to fall into place.
- So.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, had you personally experienced
- any rejections in terms of being gay, whether you were
- on campus or in Buffalo or--
- I mean, you shared with me that you heard the rhetoric that
- was so negative and so hurtful.
- MARK SIWIEC: Listen, my dad was a cop.
- And there were five of us stuck in a 900-square foot ranch.
- And the dining table conversation
- had to do with niggers and fags and Jews.
- There was no opportunity whatsoever for me to come out.
- So I didn't suffer any oppression,
- only because I was completely and absolutely closeted.
- Which in and of itself is obviously a form of oppression,
- but not any overt.
- And at the U of R, no.
- Actually, at the U of R, it was really interesting,
- and I still look back.
- For some god forsaken reason, I had joined
- a fraternity, delta sigma phi.
- And I did that, I think, my freshman year at the U of R.
- You know, as you're trying to figure out
- who your friends are, and what your identity's going to be.
- All of that.
- My sophomore year is when I start to come out publicly.
- Is when I start to take on responsibility for cheering
- the Gay Student Union, or whatever
- it was called at the time.
- And I moved off campus, and I moved on to East Avenue,
- where I took care of an elderly woman.
- And the members of the fraternity
- couldn't understand why it was that I had moved out
- of the frat house and why it is that I had moved off campus.
- Then it became clear and obvious to them, oh, he's gay,
- and he feels as though--
- Those guys were fantastic.
- They did an amazing and remarkable job
- of always saying, Mark, we haven't seen you in a while.
- We'd love to have you come to this event.
- Hey, why don't you come and hang out on Saturday afternoon,
- play foosball?
- So it was the beginning of a form of enlightenment
- on the part of some of the students on campus.
- Actually, what is interesting is I
- remember so distinctly that experience,
- and I could contrast that with a woman who
- I was sitting in the student union,
- and there was conversation about gay men and lesbians.
- And this woman said, if I knew that my son was gay,
- I would take him and throw him out the window and kill him.
- And I remember so distinctly her saying that and contrasting
- that with my experience with the fraternity.
- Very, very different.
- So.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- When you became involved with Tim's campaign,
- do you recall whether it was his first campaign, or--
- MARK SIWIEC: It was his second.
- His re-election.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Reelection.
- MARK SIWIEC: Second, yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And as a part of that,
- did you ever experience being harassed, being--
- MARK SIWIEC: No.
- No.
- No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So and in your professional life?
- MARK SIWIEC: No.
- Things started very, very, very quickly changing.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Once you got involved politically,
- I think you were connected to Mel Donato--
- ACT UP.
- You didn't know Mel Donato?
- MARK SIWIEC: So yeah.
- It wasn't ACT UP.
- It was Queer Nation which was--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Queer Nation.
- MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
- So I was involved with Tim's campaign in that first year,
- and they had me stuff envelopes on that first day.
- And then they liked the way that I stuffed envelopes,
- so then I became in charge of all their mailings.
- And then as a result of that, I became
- involved in the 23rd LD, the 23rd legislative district
- of the Democratic Party, which Sue Cowell was running.
- And Sue Cowell was attached to and involved
- in things that were political, both in terms
- of democratic politics, but also in terms of gay politics.
- And that's how I became involved in the Gay Alliance
- and then actually became vice president of the Gay Alliance
- under Claire Parker.
- It was a year or two after that that--
- and this is the time when Out magazine was being published,
- and there was that great bookstore on University Avenue
- with Laurie and--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Laurie [Matoaca and Marge.
- Wild Seeds.
- MARK SIWIEC: Wild Seeds.
- Yeah.
- And that was great, because that was a place
- that I could go to get OUT magazine and Michealangelo
- Signorile.
- Michealangelo Signorile was writing these articles week
- after week after week.
- And you would just run to the store
- to see who it was that Michealangelo Signorile was
- going to out that week.
- And there were all these public figures
- who he was outing and calling them
- on the carpet for their hypocrisy.
- And so while that was going on, then you
- had to ACT UP which was taking place in larger cities
- throughout.
- And then a splinter group of ACT UP was Queer Nation.
- And the focus of Queer Nation wasn't
- so much about HIV and AIDS politics,
- but it was really more about radicalizing gay and lesbian
- and becoming more and more public.
- And I remember we had done a public kiss--
- a kiss-in or something.
- I remember what happened.
- I remember that we had a bunch of radio and television
- and that kind of thing.
- So yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And your first real activity with the Alliance
- was the auction at Geva, right?
- MARK SIWIEC: Oh, that auction.
- Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Not the other one at the Bachelor Forum
- (laughs)--
- We all remember that one.
- MARK SIWIEC: Yeah, OK.
- Good.
- Yeah, that's what I thought you were talking about.
- No.
- Yeah.
- So--
- EVELYN BAILEY: You took care of the food
- and that sort of thing.
- But I think that was the first auction that we ever did.
- MARK SIWIEC: So the first auction.
- So I rem--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did from the heart.
- MARK SIWIEC: Yes.
- I remember-- yeah.
- Thanks for bringing that up.
- I had forgotten all about it.
- I remember being very, very proud.
- I was twenty-three years old or twenty-five years old
- or something, and I remember that we
- needed to raise money for the building fund, I think it was.
- Yeah.
- And I remember being very proud of the fact that we put
- together a really great event.
- And it was at Geva Theater, and it was very public,
- and it was very sophisticated in a way that I just
- don't recollect events for the gay and lesbian community up
- until then hadn't been this sort of-- people were in suits
- and ties, and it was very--
- and we raised, we netted $15,000.
- And you remember the sum of money.
- And I remember just being so incredibly proud.
- And it took all of our effort and all of our energy.
- It took a small army of people four to six
- months to raise the kind of money.
- But I remember, yeah.
- That was, in my mind, a real sea change for the community.
- And that we could come together in something other
- than our jeans and t-shirts, and we
- could start to interact with the larger
- community in a very, very public way and a very
- professional way.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And that money went into the building fund.
- We raised $120,000 in eighteen months
- and bought the building on Atlantic Avenue.
- MARK SIWIEC: Yeah, yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: By the time we moved to Atlantic Avenue,
- though, I think you were off the board.
- MARK SIWIEC: I had stepped off the board
- because I had become--
- for all sorts of reasons.
- One--
- EVELYN BAILEY: You were a landlord.
- MARK SIWIEC: I was starting in business.
- I was becoming more involved in business.
- That was starting to take more of my time.
- And then I started to become more and more involved
- in democratic politics.
- So the free time that I had--
- this is really an interesting conversation.
- Because that, I think, was sort of the break from my engagement
- solely in gay and lesbian politics
- and becoming more and more of a gay liaison
- to sort of a larger democratic community.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Were you ever afraid to say who you were?
- MARK SIWIEC: No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Were you proud--
- MARK SIWIEC: Absolutely.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --to be who you were?
- MARK SIWIEC: Absolutely.
- EVELYN BAILEY: From even in Buffalo?
- MARK SIWIEC: No, no.
- I thought the question was when I became involved
- in democratic politics.
- No.
- You know, there's that struggle that we all go through.
- But I remember-- again, I'm resolute.
- I'm headstrong.
- And I remember the process of coming out.
- And I remember just turning to my family.
- Again, my dad was a cop.
- And turning to my family and just saying,
- listen, this is who I am.
- And if you want, I can send you a card for your birthday,
- and I can give you a gift on Christmas,
- and that will be the sole extent of our relationship.
- Or if you want to continue to have me as your son,
- you're going to come to terms with this.
- And that was very difficult for my parents, but--
- my father in particular-- but they came around.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I know I met your mother.
- MARK SIWIEC: Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: On Barton Street.
- MARK SIWIEC: Yes.
- Yes.
- Yeah, exactly.
- EVELYN BAILEY: In your apartment.
- And she seemed fine with that whole--
- MARK SIWIEC: I mean, my mother has just
- been an incredible-- my mom was born in Buffalo.
- Very blue collar, lower middle class family.
- High school education.
- No college education.
- My father the same.
- And for my mother to evolve in the way that she has
- and for her to become the advocate, not only for me,
- but also for the community in a larger sense,
- it's really commendable.
- It's really remarkable.
- EVELYN BAILEY: In the past thirty years,
- thirty-five years, what are you most proud of in terms
- of your contribution?
- MARK SIWIEC: I think--
- it's going to be a long-winded answer.
- But the short answer is I think that I
- am very proud of the fact that Duffy and I have acted
- as a liaison from the community to, in many ways,
- a larger community.
- The straight community, the heterosexual community,
- the political community, on the democratic side of the aisle
- and on the republican side of the aisle.
- Here in our county, but throughout the state.
- And whether it was we were normalizing,
- so to say, or so to speak, whether it
- was because we were normalizing our relationship
- and gay and lesbian involvement with people like Chuck Schumer
- or with Eliot Spitzer, having asked
- Bob Duffy to run for office.
- Having him become a lieutenant governor.
- Having him preside over marriage.
- Whether it's because of our relationships with local bank
- presidents, presidents of colleges and universities
- locally.
- That's, I think, what we're most proud of.
- What I'm certainly most proud of.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And how throughout--
- when did you and Duffy meet?
- MARK SIWIEC: We've been together for seventeen years.
- So that was in 1996.
- EVELYN BAILEY: '96.
- And did you meet politically, or did you--
- MARK SIWIEC: No, no, no, no.
- We met through a personal ad.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And you and he have begun many organizations,
- political organizations, like ESPA,
- I think Duffy has probably had more of a role in that
- than you, although the two of you together, I think,
- began the Rochester--
- MARK SIWIEC: No.
- That's actually not--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Sue Cowell.
- MARK SIWIEC: I remember being asked
- to the first meeting of the Empire State Pride Agenda
- twenty years ago at a diner on South Avenue.
- And Dick Dadey was involved at the time.
- And so I remember knowing of the organization,
- but not really being involved.
- I was asked to sit on the board.
- I sat on the board for literally six weeks,
- and then my business was taking off, and I had to step aside.
- Duffy and I meet three years after the organization
- is founded.
- And I remember Duffy having a conversation with me one day.
- And the conversation that Duffy has is--
- this is four months into our relationship.
- And he says, I don't know if I can spend the rest of my life
- with somebody who is as busy as you are.
- And I remember just trying to figure out, so
- what do I give up?
- Do I give up this relationship with this man
- that I'm falling in love with, or do I
- give up some of my business or some
- of my political activities?
- And my-- the answer that I came up with was to get him involved
- and to get him busier.
- And we got him on the board of the Empire State Pride Agenda,
- and then he took and he ran with that.
- And he was the state co-chair for six years.
- He sat on the board for a few years
- before becoming state co-chair.
- But it has been a really, really great relationship
- in that in particular, in when it is that Duffy and I would
- attend events in New York City for Alan Hevesi, the state
- comptroller, Eric Schneiderman, or Chuck Schumer, or Eliot
- Spitzer.
- I was always great about kicking in the door
- and getting us in the room as a result of networking.
- As a result of writing checks, whatever.
- But anybody who knows us, Duffy then steps in behind me,
- and he has all the kindness and all the warmth and all
- the finesse to really then continue the relationships.
- So it's been a great collaborative effort.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Why are you so committed to the Empire State
- Pride Agenda?
- Or why have you been so committed?
- MARK SIWIEC: The end game for me, and I think for Duffy,
- was securing marriage equality.
- And--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did you think that was going
- to happen twenty years ago?
- MARK SIWIEC: No.
- No.
- But I knew that whatever it was that was going to play out,
- I knew that whatever it was that was going to happen,
- needed to happen in a larger arena.
- So one of my first political activities, I remember,
- after I involved myself in Tim Mains's campaign,
- I remember being asked to host a fundraiser for Rachel--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Heading.
- MARK SIWIEC: Rachel Heading, exactly.
- Who was on the school board.
- And I remember being able to get--
- and nobody at the time in our community
- was interested in politics.
- Nobody had any sense as to how it
- is that we could become involved politically
- and what it was that we were going
- to derive as a result of our political involvement.
- But I remember hosting a fundraiser in my backyard.
- I remember grilling hot dogs and hamburgers,
- and I remember raising $350 for Rachel.
- And why was that significant, or why was that important?
- Because it then allowed us to approach Rachel and Cathy Spoto
- and a few other members of the school board.
- And we became the first school district in the country
- not to allow the US military to recruit in our school district.
- And I remember thinking, my god.
- If we could do that with $350 and have
- an impact that was so national in scope, then
- we should continue.
- I should continue on in a similar manner.
- And the Empire State Pride Agenda, in particular,
- seemed to be a larger stage and a larger arena in which I could
- involve myself and the efforts and the talents
- that I thought that I could bring to the table.
- EVELYN BAILEY: In those years of your political involvement,
- talk to me a little bit about Sue Cowell.
- What do you see as her greatest contribution to this community?
- MARK SIWIEC: Sue Cowell, for me, was always the icon.
- Sue Cowell was always the face of the community.
- Sue Cowell was always the one who
- was most visible and on the forefront of all
- of these things.
- So back in the late '70s and early '80s,
- her involvement in democratic politics,
- her involvement with Louise Slaughter's campaign.
- Her having run Tim Mains's first campaign.
- It was all very-- she was very, very, very visible.
- And she was the one person that I could
- turn to figure out how to--
- I had energy, and I had interest,
- but I didn't know how to engage myself in the process
- or involve myself in the process.
- So I think that her greatest accomplishment was the fact
- that she was just so visible and was enjoying so much success.
- But then soon I became best friends, for just years.
- And she's still a dear friend.
- But during that period of time, it was very intense.
- There wasn't a day that went by that Sue and I didn't
- speak to each other two or three times a day to figure out--
- she ran Susan John's campaign.
- And she got me involved in Susan John.
- And she just-- if Sue was running something,
- then the phone would ring, and then
- I would be standing right next to her, by her side.
- I remember going to Albany, and I
- remember her challenging elected officials in Albany in a way
- that-- and I remember, it was there
- were three or four candidates running for attorney general
- on the Democratic side of the aisle.
- And I remember, there was a question
- that was posed by a member of the audience
- about gay and lesbian civil rights.
- And it was a gay lesbian group, but nevertheless, somebody
- had posed the question, and all three candidates just
- obfuscated.
- They didn't give the--
- they didn't give an answer, they just
- tap danced around an answer.
- And I remember Sue just--
- (bangs table) she slammed her-- she was like, that's it.
- Enough.
- We as a community are no longer going
- to take this kind of answer.
- This is bullshit.
- And she says this publicly.
- And the room just went dead silent.
- And everybody just turned and looked.
- And we turned back, and you could just
- sense that there was a sea change that
- had occurred in our community.
- That these three men probably, and one woman would no longer--
- were no longer allowed the opportunity to spoon
- feed us the garbage that they were up until that point
- in time.
- So she was a pioneer.
- She's an icon.
- She's my mentor, and we all owe her
- an enormous, enormous degree of gratitude.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And along those lines,
- who would you say in Rochester was
- the most visible political person who
- moved the agenda of the gay community?
- MARK SIWIEC: There were three names.
- There are three names that come to mind.
- Obviously, the most publicly visible, was Tim Mains.
- He was the first openly gay elected official
- in the city of Rochester, in Monroe County.
- So a lot of credit, a great deal of credit,
- has to be given to Tim.
- But behind the scenes, there was Sue.
- And I wasn't there at the time.
- But I would venture to guess that it
- would have been much more difficult Sue's involvement.
- And Sue's involvement was much larger,
- in that she was involved in a lot of different campaigns.
- But the other person, and you probably
- haven't heard anybody mention, but Fran Weisberg,
- who is the chair of the local Democratic Party.
- And Fran always saw to it that members of the gay and lesbian
- community had a seat at the table in whatever it
- was that was going on at sixty-five West Broad, which
- was the address of Democratic Headquarters.
- And she didn't need to engage our community.
- She didn't need to involve our community.
- But she always made sure that the door was open.
- She always made sure that we had a seat at the table.
- And whether it was Tim's first campaign
- or his second campaign, or whether it's
- Susan John's first run for state assembly,
- it didn't matter what the campaign
- was, Fran empowered us.
- And we as a community owe her a great deal of gratitude.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I haven't heard that name, as a matter of fact.
- You are the first person who's really mentioned it
- as someone that the community--
- worked behind the scenes that the community really
- wasn't aware of.
- MARK SIWIEC: Not to denigrate.
- But have you spoken to anybody else who
- was involved in democratic politics other than Sue?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Tim.
- Bill Pritchard.
- MARK SIWIEC: Bill wasn't involved at that point in time.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Tim Tompkins.
- MARK SIWIEC: Tim Tompkins wasn't involved at that point in time.
- Tim only got involved--
- EVELYN BAILEY: And we haven't interviewed,
- of course, Susan John.
- She's really gone under the radar.
- But Sue did not mention Fran Weisberg, and we--
- MARK SIWIEC: Sue and Tim would be the two.
- Because there were--
- EVELYN BAILEY: And Tim, we interviewed Tim for three hours
- on tape.
- And did not-- that name was not mentioned.
- MARK SIWIEC: She was amazing.
- She was amazing.
- Oh, she--
- EVELYN BAILEY: And that was the other question
- I was going to ask you.
- Who do we need to talk to.
- Fran Weisberg I will definitely get in touch with.
- Besides Fran Weisberg, who in this community
- has stepped up to the plate?
- Who has been, maybe, the unsung hero or behind the scenes,
- doing all the stuff that needs to be done that makes
- what we do successful?
- MARK SIWIEC: At least in terms of my involvement,
- going back to the early '80s, it was definitely--
- and again, my focus was all political.
- So it would definitely be Sue Cowell.
- It would definitely be Fran Weisberg.
- It would definitely be Tim Mains.
- Yeah.
- So.
- And then what starts to happen after that is then
- my focus became less--
- turn it off for just a second.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Your first introductions and activity
- in political arena.
- You talked a little bit about Sue Cowell and working
- on Tim Mains's first campaign.
- But beyond that, you have moved in other directions,
- on other levels.
- And I've got a call in to Fran Weisberg,
- and she has yet to get back to me.
- But I'm not sure she's like Duffy, but-- (laughs)
- MARK SIWIEC: Let me tell you-- (recording switched off)
- EVELYN BAILEY: And the other thing, Mark,
- I would love to have your comments
- on the progression from where you entered
- the community to where it is now,
- in terms of some of the political things that
- have happened.
- Some of the social things that have happened.
- Some of your reflection on why marriage equality really
- worked in this state.
- I mean, yes.
- It was the lieutenant governor, and yes, it
- was the four Republicans who came over to our side.
- But why New York?
- Why here?
- Where were the activism--
- MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You know?
- MARK SIWIEC: Well, everybody points to New York City,
- but I think the parallels between New York
- and Rochester are astounding.
- Because if you think about Stonewall taking
- place in the late '60s, and there was this movement that
- came about as a result of that.
- But if you look at the history of LGBT Rochester,
- similar things were going on in Rochester.
- No, there weren't riots, necessarily.
- But there was organization that was taking place
- in Rochester in the late '60s.
- In the early '70s.
- You know about that far more and far better than I do.
- But it's as a result of that early organizing
- and the Gay Alliance being formed in the early '70s.
- And the Empty Closet being formed in the early '70s.
- And thank god for the Empty Closet, because that
- was a way of very, very quietly and very
- surreptitiously being able to grab a newspaper
- and having some kind of ability to communicate and connect
- with the gay and lesbian community
- by going to Parkleigh, for instance, back
- in the late '70s, early '80s.
- And you could grab that publication
- and walk out without fear of being chastised.
- Without fear of reprisal.
- Without fear of ridicule.
- So that kind of organizing, I think, was very, very exciting.
- And so if you've got that going on here in Rochester,
- and it starts to grow and it starts developing,
- if you've got it going on in New York City,
- and if the communities in both New York
- and in Rochester, and then to a lesser degree, Syracuse
- and Buffalo, as we became more and more sophisticated--
- Sue Cowell always talks about raising money
- for AIDS Rochester.
- And she began to realize that you could schlep up and down
- stairs in a gay bar in Rochester with cases
- of beer at the beginning of the night
- and at the end of the night, and you could hold a fundraiser
- and put a lot of effort into it and raise,
- if you were fortunate, $1,200.
- Or you could start to raise larger sums of money
- by getting people into a room by wearing business attire
- and asking for bigger checks and raise $5,000.
- And it was a result of that kind of thing
- that allowed our community to start to become a force
- to be reckoned with in the eyes of the politicians
- throughout the state of New York.
- So I'll never forget--
- and part of this, speaking-- go ahead.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I get it.
- I get it.
- Where are the relationships, though?
- MARK SIWIEC: So here's relationships.
- So as a result of some of my earlier activities,
- I found myself picking up a guy whose name
- was Congressman Chuck Schumer, out of New York City.
- This is going back when he decided
- that he was going to run for the United States Senate.
- So I pick I pick Congressman Schumer up in my car,
- and he flies in on a commercial plane, arrives at the airport.
- I greet him.
- We walk to my car.
- We drive off.
- He comes back a few weeks later, and this is, by the way,
- in concert with Duffy, who is with me.
- And then and then artist Mangione,
- who's now married to Steve Lindley, who's
- in the appellate division.
- Chuck would come in again, and he
- would have a second person with him, an aide.
- And then he would have a third person with him.
- And then as the months were progressing, all of a sudden,
- they weren't walking to the car, but they started--
- they would jog to the car.
- And I wasn't going inside to meet them.
- I had the car running outside.
- And then by the end of that campaign, literally
- you would have six people running--
- touching down in a private jet and then running
- from the private jet, piling into my car,
- one on top of another, and we would race off
- to four events, one after another after another.
- And as a result of that kind of relationship,
- I started doing all the fundraising for Chuck locally.
- And I'll never forget.
- We did an event--
- I didn't have any money at the time.
- I didn't have an appropriate residence
- in which to hold a fundraiser in which the political donors
- in Rochester could gather.
- But as a result of that kind of relationship,
- we did an event for Chuck in which we raised, I think,
- $100,000.
- And this was going back sixteen, seventeen years.
- It's a result of those kinds of relationships
- that we, as members of the gay and lesbian community,
- were developing that allowed for us to then approach
- these men and women, these elected officials,
- and say we need marriage equality
- in the state of New York.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Who, besides yourself and Duffy,
- were among the group of people who moved that agenda?
- Who moved the money?
- Who moved-- I mean, I'm not asking for fundraising names.
- MARK SIWIEC: Here in Rochester?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Here in Rochester.
- MARK SIWIEC: From the gay and lesbian community?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- MARK SIWIEC: Early on, it was Duffy and I. Early on it was.
- Yeah.
- And thankfully-- I don't say that out of hubris.
- But thankfully then, you get other members
- of the community who begin to--
- because Tim was elected to city council,
- but Tim was very much doing his own thing.
- And he didn't have very much of a relationship
- with any of the electeds out of New York City.
- But as a result of my relationship with the Empire
- State Pride Agenda and his relationship, Duffy's
- relationship, we knew these men and women
- in New York City who were running for statewide office.
- But actually, so it was basically Duffy
- and myself, because of our relationship with these men
- and women in New York.
- So when they were doing their dog and pony
- show throughout the state--
- so there's a guy named Eliot Spitzer who
- decides that he wants to run for attorney general
- of the state of New York.
- So I'm asked to attend a dinner.
- Why?
- Because nobody else wants to go in and have
- dinner with this guy named Eliot Spitzer.
- So I show up, and it was a miserable, terrible dinner.
- It was boring.
- There was nothing going on.
- There were seven of us sitting at the table.
- And as everybody was getting ready to leave,
- I said, well, but Mr. Spitzer, I don't
- know whether I should actually vote for you or not
- for attorney general.
- There are three issues that are very important to me
- as a potential voter.
- One issue is the death penalty.
- Another issue is a woman's right to choose.
- And the third issue is gay and lesbian civil rights.
- And all of a sudden, the seven people at the table
- decided to sit back down, and for another hour and a half,
- we sat there.
- And Eliot starts by saying, OK, Mark.
- You and I are going to agree on two of these,
- but not on the third issue.
- And I'll tell you that I'm supportive of
- gay and lesbian civil rights.
- And it was as a result of that dinner
- that I then started raising all the money for Eliot locally
- and became his local guy, if you will.
- EVELYN BAILEY: How did you become connected
- with ESPA I mean, you and Duffy started ESPA up here, but it--
- MARK SIWIEC: No, no.
- No, Sue was state chair.
- And (laughs) actually, the way that--
- I was on the board of the Empire State Pride Agenda
- for about two months before I realized that my business was
- taking off, and I had to step down and resign from the board.
- I meet Duffy, and probably four or six months
- into our relationship, Duffy says to me, Mark,
- this is going really well, but I'm not quite sure
- if I can spend the rest of my life
- with somebody who's as busy as you are.
- And I was devastated.
- I was completely devastated by this.
- And I had determined to figure out whether or not
- I was going to remain faithful to Duffy
- or remain faithful to myself and my intended goals
- as a businessman.
- And my solution was to turn to Sue Cowell and say,
- we need to get Duffy on the board of the Empire State Pride
- Agenda.
- And Sue, thankfully, agreed to get him on the board.
- And as a result of that, he started
- to fly in and out of New York and then ultimately took over
- from Sue and became state chair and was
- state co-chair for six years.
- EVELYN BAILEY: How did ESPA begin?
- Do you know?
- MARK SIWIEC: The Empire State Pride Agenda
- began twenty years ago as a result of Libby Post
- and Dick Dadey and a few others realizing
- that the splintered interests and attempts and efforts
- on the part of the gay and lesbian community in New York
- just weren't working.
- So FairPAC and a few other organizations
- came together to create the Empire State Pride Agenda.
- And they started to--
- EVELYN BAILEY: And when did you go on to-- or when did
- maybe Sue go on the board.
- MARK SIWIEC: Well, I remember having--
- there was a diner on South Avenue,
- and I remember going to that diner twenty years ago.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Highland Park?
- MARK SIWIEC: Oh, it was on South Avenue.
- So I think it was a lesbian-owned diner that
- was run for just a few-- a short while.
- And I remember going to that, and it
- was one of the first organizing meetings.
- And because I was so close with Sue,
- that whatever Sue was doing with the Appreciate Pride Agenda
- by default, I was involved in one way or another.
- And that's yeah.
- So but actually, back to you had asked a question a while ago,
- and I think it's really sort of interesting.
- I do recollect-- and this goes back
- to how were these relationships developed,
- and how did they form.
- I remember, because of my involvement
- in politics, Jine's Diner.
- And this is going back seventeen years or something.
- And the deputy mayor at the time was having breakfast
- with the chief of police.
- And Jeff says to me, do you Bob Duffy?
- And I said, no.
- I've heard great things about you.
- My name's Mark Siwiec.
- Nice to meet you.
- And I said, hey, listen.
- I've got to get out of here.
- I'm going to pick up Congressman Chuck Schumer.
- He's flying from New York.
- He's going to be campaigning.
- I said, as long as I'm going to be sitting with him,
- do either of you need anything?
- And Bob Duffy says, yeah.
- As a matter of fact, we applied for something
- called a cop's grant.
- And it was a $500,000 grant to get new radios
- for the Rochester police department.
- If the approval didn't come through
- within the next twenty-four hours, then that was it.
- There was no possible way of securing that money.
- So I said, well, let me mention it to him.
- So I get in the car, I'm driving Chuck along.
- And I said, hey, by the way, the chief of police
- is looking for some assistance, some help with the cop's grant.
- Can you help out in any way?
- So he says to the guy, his aide, who's
- sitting in the backseat, hey, get Jan on the phone.
- And the guy in the backseat dials up the cell phone, hands
- the phone to Chuck, and a minute and a half later, he says,
- I just got off the phone with Janet Reno.
- Janet says the $500,000 grant is taken care of.
- I'll call the chief and let him know that it's a done deal.
- It was as simple as that.
- As a result of that, I get to pick up the phone,
- call this guy named Bob Duffy, and say, hey, Bob.
- Just want to let you know that your cop grant is secured.
- As a result of that, we ended up having dinner with he
- and Barbara a short while later, and that was
- the start of that friendship.
- So it's just trying to raise the money for these electeds,
- do favors for the electeds, give back and give back again.
- Give back again.
- Knowing full well that eventually there's
- going to come a day and a time where
- you're going to turn to somebody and lobby them
- for the passage of gay and lesbian civil rights.
- And indeed, I mean, there's no better example, at least
- from my sense, than Bob Duffy.
- A guy who we helped to get into office as mayor
- of the city of Rochester.
- A gentleman who was not supportive of marriage equality
- on the day that he was sworn into office,
- but who, as a result of our friendship
- and the many, many friendships he developed
- with the members of our community,
- were able to move him and get him to come out
- as a very, very strong ally.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Were you acquainted at all Apuzzo?
- Ginny Apuzzo?
- MARK SIWIEC: Ginny Apuzzo.
- No.
- I did not know Ginny.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Or the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force?
- MARK SIWIEC: No.
- No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Here in Rochester, labor came on board
- with Pride at Work.
- And what role does--
- what role did labor play in moving the marriage equality
- agenda?
- Do you know?
- MARK SIWIEC: I know that Alan van Capelle, when
- he was the executive director of the Empire State Pride Agenda,
- realized--
- he came from the labor movement.
- And he realized the importance of getting
- like-minded coalitions and factions of individuals
- to come together with us so that if labor needed a favor,
- then members of the gay and lesbian community
- were going to be there to protest or to walk picket lines
- or to make phone calls.
- But we also--
- Alan was smart enough to realize that in exchange,
- when we needed help in terms of lobbying
- our electeds in Albany, that we would need them.
- And sure enough, one after another, they just
- came on board, and they said, yep.
- This union-- one after another, unions came on board
- and began to support our desires.
- So and he did that not only with labor,
- but he also did that, obviously, with the religious community.
- Did that with women's groups and abortion rights groups.
- He was brilliant.
- He was brilliant in terms of being
- able to create coalitions.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And from your perspective,
- looking back and looking ahead, where are we?
- MARK SIWIEC: Oh, dear god.
- EVELYN BAILEY: We've come a long way, but there's further to go.
- What-- I mean, I don't think gender
- has passed the state yet.
- MARK SIWIEC: No.
- It passes the assembly time and time again.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And that's probably the next hurdle.
- But with the repeal of DOMA and actually,
- the movement forward of LGBT men and women
- to get married, the question becomes,
- with gender, how do you maneuver gender, transgender into that,
- and how do they identify-- well, it's not a question for you.
- But how does the state deal with a man who's a woman.
- MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
- It's actually going to happen in the state of New York.
- However, it's a matter of timing.
- So thankfully we have, at this point
- in time, a governor, a lieutenant governor,
- a comptroller, an attorney general, and an assembly,
- all of whom are in favor of passage of agenda.
- We have a state Senate that's controlled at the moment
- by the Republican Party.
- There is going to come a point in time,
- sometime in the next short while,
- where the deal will be cut, and the legislation will pass.
- It's going to pass.
- It's just a matter of what is the timing going to be like,
- and when is it.
- And it will most likely-- in my mind,
- it will most likely come as a result of the gay and lesbian
- community coming out in favor of the re-election
- efforts of Andrew Cuomo.
- At that point in time, we'll have once again
- provided the necessary funding and the chits
- so we can turn around and say, OK.
- Great.
- We helped to get you re-elected.
- We've raised you x number of dollars.
- Now get this passage taken care of.
- Get this bill passed and taken care of for us.
- EVELYN BAILEY: This may be more a political question,
- but why do the Democrats seem to be the party that's pro-LGBT,
- and the Republicans are not?
- I mean, I'm not as familiar with Republican ideology as I am--
- MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Does it have to do with--
- it has to do with platforms, and it has to do with--
- MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
- I mean, yeah.
- But the Democratic Party is--
- is this, by the way?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- MARK SIWIEC: OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What in Rochester has created the environment
- of inclusion that seems to be the underpinnings,
- the undercurrent of all of social justice movements,
- social welfare, social--
- what is it?
- MARK SIWIEC: I'm not going to be able to speak to this
- as eloquently as a historian.
- However, when you go back and look
- at the history of Rochester, you go back 120 years,
- and you see people like Frederick Douglass
- and people like Susan B. Anthony.
- And there's all sorts of conversation
- about George Eastman was probably gay.
- And there's nobody in the history of Rochester
- who's more important than George Eastman.
- And he was probably a gay man.
- And you've got at least three men who were probably
- gay mayors of the city of Rochester
- throughout the twentieth century.
- So I was always shocked when I came here in '83,
- having come from Buffalo, where the mayor
- of the city of Buffalo, Jimmy Griffin,
- used to talk about queers and pansies and fags.
- And he used to do so publicly, and I used to,
- as a seven-year-old boy, lie in bed at night listening
- to this rhetoric, understanding and realizing
- that I could never, ever come out,
- and I could certainly never, ever
- have any straight men as friends.
- And then you come to Rochester at the age of eighteen
- or nineteen, and you begin to realize and understand
- that this is a community in which that kind of language
- and that kind of rhetoric was not accepted.
- It was not acceptable.
- That people did not speak or use language like that.
- And this is just--
- and I also began to realize that it wasn't the only one.
- That people were coming from Canandaigua,
- and they were coming from Syracuse,
- and they were coming from Buffalo and Niagara Falls.
- This community was a magnet for gay men and lesbians
- from throughout upstate New York.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Why?
- MARK SIWIEC: Because of the history that I just described.
- Because we-- because of the history of Rochester.
- Because of Susan B. Anthony and Frederick Douglass and George
- Eastman and three gay mayors.
- There was a sense of progression, progressivity,
- if you will.
- There was a sense of acceptance, of tolerance
- that you didn't enjoy or experience
- in other cities in upstate New York.
- You didn't see this kind of thing happening in Syracuse.
- They didn't have-- you didn't see this kind of thing
- happening in Buffalo.
- You didn't see it happening in Niagara Falls.
- Why?
- Because they didn't have the same history.
- They didn't have leaders of their communities
- who were either gay or who were so socially progressive.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Who today are the torchbearers?
- MARK SIWIEC: I wish I knew, Evelyn.
- And what I mean by that is--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Who are the leaders that are currently
- working toward gay rights, civil rights, human rights.
- However you want to cloak that, for our community.
- And along with that, what kind of impetus or energy
- is there that's left.
- MARK SIWIEC: I think one of the interesting--
- as I'm struggling to answer the question,
- I'm beginning to realize why it is that I'm struggling
- to answer the question.
- Because we've been so successful locally and statewide
- at helping to secure gay and lesbian civil rights,
- we don't have a core group of gay men and lesbians.
- Go back twenty years, you and I knew each other very,
- very well.
- Claire and I knew each other very well.
- Sue Cowell, Tim Mains.
- There were twenty-five of us.
- We knew each other, and we knew how
- to get in touch with each other, and we had each other's backs,
- and we were all focused on a singular goal, which was
- gay and lesbian civil rights.
- as broadly defined as it was.
- Well, fast forward twenty, twenty-five years.
- We've done so well in helping to secure civil rights
- for ourselves, for our community,
- that you now see actions that are forming.
- And not in a pejorative sense of the term of the word,
- but factions.
- So you now have gay men and lesbians
- who are active in their religious organizations
- and in other faith communities.
- And you've got gay men and lesbians
- who are involved and active in politics.
- And you've got grassroots activists.
- And then you've got people who are involved in the arts
- or they're sitting in corporate boards
- or on philanthropic boards.
- You've got gay men and lesbians who are involved in business.
- We didn't have that privilege.
- I mean, we had one focus and one sole intent,
- going back twenty-five years.
- And now we've got the privilege of all
- spreading out and influencing our community through all
- of the many, many, many different organizations
- that our community is now involved in.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But how do you perceive that group or those
- people coming together to not only move our wishes,
- but creating and continuing to create the environment which
- will allow LGBT men, Hispanics, African-Americans,
- to become involved and to open it up so that--
- I mean, before, Eastman, Long, all those people met.
- They talked.
- They knew each other.
- And that was happening in politics
- with Moran and (unintelligible) Moran and--
- MARK SIWIEC: Ryan.
- Tom Ryan.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Tom Ryan.
- On The Monday morning breakfast group.
- MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
- Does Does that exist today?
- MARK SIWIEC: It doesn't exist for me.
- I mean, speaking--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I mean does it exist.
- MARK SIWIEC: It doesn't exist for me.
- And whether or not it exists for others, I don't know.
- Do I think that it does?
- No.
- I think that I know who the players are,
- and I think the players know who I am.
- I can only speak for myself by saying,
- I don't think it exists.
- But if there were a crisis, if there
- were some imperative, some impetus, some reason
- for us to come together again as a community,
- it would happen overnight.
- We could gather together.
- When I was on the board of the Empire State Pride Agenda,
- I used to do these monthly meetings.
- And we would get twelve or fifteen people into a room.
- Why Because of the splintering that I described a short while
- ago.
- There were just so many different organizations and so
- many different people involved in so many different ways.
- So we were trying to come together so that we could all
- get on the same page.
- And this is just before marriage equality passed in the state.
- Marriage equality passes, yes, we still have an agenda,
- and we still need to pass agenda.
- But the imperative has very, very, very quickly diminished.
- The need to gather very quickly diminished
- as a result of passage of marriage equality.
- And as I said, I think that if there was a reason
- to come together, if there was a crisis of some sort,
- it could be recreated again overnight.
- Because even though I don't necessarily
- know a lot of the activists who are out there or a lot
- of the members of the gay and lesbian community
- and the African-American or Hispanic
- or the faith community, I know who they are.
- They know-- and vise versa.
- We could come together, and we could
- march forward and move forward in whatever way we might need.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- Let me ask you, perhaps, a less comfortable question.
- We have upstate New York, and you have downstate New York.
- Both very different communities.
- What has bridged the gap?
- In other words, we were often seen as those people
- up there who didn't have any power.
- Didn't have any money.
- Didn't he any blah, blah, blah.
- And everything was focused on New York City.
- In downstate.
- My perception is that has shifted.
- It has leveled off to some degree.
- And I don't want to put words in your mouth,
- but I think a lot of that has to do with the political activism
- that has sprung up in this community
- and the ability of, say, a Xerox Corporation in Rochester, New
- York to call on headquarters in Norwalk, Connecticut
- and have them sign on to marriage equality.
- So it wasn't New York City that got a major corporation
- to sign on.
- It was upstate.
- Why has-- are we still looked upon as that piece of New York
- up there that doesn't play a major role,
- or has that changed?
- MARK SIWIEC: I think everything post-marriage has changed.
- I don't think, frankly, anybody in New York City
- really is paying attention to any of us any longer.
- Why?
- Because again, the focus and the intent.
- I mean, so much of the need to organize
- and so much of the need to be active and involved
- and engaged politically.
- And otherwise, I think that if you look at our movement
- statewide, the number of people who attend Empire State Pride
- Agenda dinners in New York is starting to diminish.
- The amount of money they're raising
- is starting to diminish.
- And people's intent and their focus
- are starting to turn elsewhere.
- So for instance, I may be a good example.
- I stepped off the board of the Empire State Pride Agenda
- this past spring.
- Why?
- Because I felt comfortable helping
- to secure gay and lesbian marriage
- in the state of New York.
- Great.
- So I step off the board of the Empire State Pride Agenda.
- Why?
- Because I didn't have the focus and the intent
- that I had had for twenty-five years moving forward.
- Instead, now on the board of the Rochester Philharmonic
- Orchestra, and I'm on the board of MCC.
- Those are the organizations that are compelling to me
- at this point in time.
- And I think that by being engaged and involved
- in those organizations, I'm able to help
- the gay and lesbian community locally
- by once again just being one more
- member of the community who's involved and engaged in things
- outside of things that are strictly and solely LGBT.
- Is that making sense?
- Am I making any sense?
- No?
- EVELYN BAILEY: It does from this perspective.
- That I think it's interesting you really
- believe that if a crisis occurred,
- we could gather the energy and the people
- together and confront that crisis, whatever it is.
- But in the meantime, we become a part of the larger community
- to affect change within each of those structures that
- would be beneficial to the LGBT community.
- MARK SIWIEC: Absolutely.
- There was always this fear going back
- twenty-five years, thirty years, of assimilation.
- You had all these people who were
- so terrified of assimilating.
- I'm not quite sure why it was they were fearful of,
- or what their concerns were.
- But indeed, I think that's happened.
- I mean, the fact--
- I don't think that anybody really
- cares any longer in this community
- whether or not I'm a gay man or whether or not
- you're a lesbian.
- You just walk into a room with your partner,
- and people ask for another glass of wine.
- There's no question about who this man is
- who's standing next to you.
- So as a result of that, people just--
- people are just allowing us to be.
- And that's precisely and exactly what we--
- I've always said Duffy, and I've always said to others,
- I don't want to be controversial.
- I don't want any need to have a pride parade.
- I want to be as boring as possible.
- Why do I want to be as boring as possible?
- Because the more boring I am, the more likely
- it is that we've secured what we've set out to achieve,
- which is our civil rights.
- Equality in the eyes of our colleagues,
- in the eyes of our colleagues.
- So.
- But I truly-- I mean, I really--
- if there was a crisis.
- If there was another epidemic of any sort.
- If there was a political mandate of some sort of that
- demanded that we organize, there is no doubt in my mind
- that within twenty-four hours, we would
- have 100 people in a room.
- 100 strong activists involved and engaged to immediately go
- out and set about doing what it is that we need
- to do to resolve and organize.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What are your goals, personally?
- MARK SIWIEC: My goals on behalf of the--
- the goals are so--
- the goals are so less lofty than they were.
- The goals for so long were simply to organize.
- The goals for so long were to secure nondiscrimination acts.
- And then the goal was just to secure acceptance
- in the eyes of and diminish controversy or overt
- oppression.
- And then the goals were lofty in that we
- wanted marriage equality.
- Now that we've achieved most of that,
- there's one legislative goal, really, which is GENDA.
- And then I think a lot of the politics has been set aside,
- and I think the goal then is just to make sure
- that in the same way that our heterosexual colleagues has
- social service agencies that take care
- of the elderly and the young, I think
- that our community, in order to move forward,
- really needs to make sure that we're focused on gay youth
- and suicide and drug addiction.
- And that we're focused on taking care of our elders
- and making sure that they are taken care of in their waning
- years.
- Those are my goals.
- I mean, the goals are would be just to go about our life
- and just enjoy all it is that we've worked so hard to achieve
- over the course of the past thirty, thirty-five years.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The future generations.
- Do you see--
- I mean, you're out in the community.
- Yes, it's a very focused community.
- Those that want to buy homes, those that want
- to sell homes, those that--
- but they're all over the place.
- Neighborhoods are not what they used to be.
- Towns are not what they used to be.
- There was a tremendous backlash in the county this past Pride
- over Maggie Brooks not being open to flying the gay flag.
- Rochester is a very enclosed area.
- Once you move out into the suburbs,
- the effect is not the same.
- There are people who are LGBT who do not necessarily
- feel safe coming out in some of those outlying areas
- that we would see as very progressive.
- What role does the LGBT community
- play in terms of county movement?
- In terms of yeah, it's fine to live
- in the city of Rochester and--
- MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
- I think that we need to just continue
- doing the work that we've done for the past twenty,
- twenty-five, thirty years, which is just continuing to demand
- the respect of our colleagues.
- So if you're living in Parma or Gates or Greece,
- or if you're living in Webster or Victor--
- Duffy and I have a place down in Hammondsport.
- And there was a lot of concern on our part
- that when we got down there, we were told not to--
- I was told not to drive the Mercedes and that we should not
- hold hands or overtly express our commitment to one
- another in that community.
- Well, it was nonsense.
- Complete nonsense.
- We went about our daily existence
- down there exactly as we do up here.
- We demand respect of the people around us.
- And there's no controversy whatsoever.
- And I think that we as a community just
- need to continue to do the same, so that no matter where
- it is that you're living, no matter
- where it is that you're spending your time,
- you're demanding of those around you
- the same respect that you deserve.
- That you deserve.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- MARK SIWIEC: Yeah.
- I'm not saying it's easy.
- And I realize that financial privilege allows for an easier
- ability to demand that respect.
- But thankfully, we are organized as a community.
- And thankfully, we've got our--
- we've got the backs of the members of our community.
- So I'm not being particularly eloquent here, sorry.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That's all right.
- MARK SIWIEC: But actually--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Last time we talked, I
- asked you what you were most proud of, in terms
- of looking back over your life.
- My final question to you is you have
- sitting before you a seventeen-year-old gay male who
- isn't out.
- What would you say to him?
- MARK SIWIEC: I would tell him that it's going to be OK.
- That it's going to be perfectly fine.
- That he's going to, as a gay man,
- find the courage to come out and enjoy the most
- remarkable and fulfilling life.
- And that he's going to find a partner,
- and all the dreams that are foisted upon us
- from childhood on, as we're watching television,
- or we're listening to music, or we're going to the movies,
- all of the romance that one sees that is enjoyed almost
- exclusively by the heterosexual community
- is the same romance and the same success
- and the same joy that he is going
- to enjoy as a seventeen-year-old male moving forward
- in his life.
- He just needs to find the courage,
- and there are people there to help him
- get through that initial hump.
- And once that's done, it's easy sailing and beautiful
- from there on in.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, thank you very much.
- MARK SIWIEC: This was great.
- Thanks.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And hopefully the next twenty years
- will be as fulfilling and happy as the past twenty have been.
- MARK SIWIEC: Yeah, yeah.
- For all of us.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.