Audio Interview, Maureen Boyle and Vickie Fumia, January 10, 2012

  • KEVIN INDOVINO: She was a really muscular girl, really big,
  • with short, cropped hair.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: I actually (unintelligible) she only
  • lasted a month.
  • Somebody went into her face.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Brenda?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: No, that doesn't sound familiar either.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And she just backed up.
  • And I went, excuse me, you're the bouncer.
  • You're supposed to be there.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: No, this woman wouldn't have backed up.
  • Because another friend of mine, who was a straight guy,
  • tried to come into the bar once to come get me.
  • And she fessed right up to him and said,
  • you can't come in here.
  • I said, but my friend's in there.
  • And then he almost went to blows about it.
  • And I looked at it and went, no, no, no, he's with me.
  • (laughter)
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Boy, I don't know.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to say, Laureen?
  • Lauren?
  • Lauren maybe.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: No.
  • Geez, I can't remember.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Renee?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: No, it wasn't Renee.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: No, Renee only lasted a month.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: She lasted a short time
  • because her hand was where it shouldn't have been.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I don't know.
  • It will come to me.
  • I remember her specifically because of that incident
  • with my roommate at the time.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: What about fast end bartender?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Blonde.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Her girlfriend.
  • She wasn't tall by any means.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: No, she wasn't taller than me.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: But time makes people--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: But she was big and muscular.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, what's her name?
  • Yeah.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: I just said that.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Liesels.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Carla.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: There you go.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Carla.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Carla, yes.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: It's Carla.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: It's Carla.
  • Yep, yep, yep.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yep, yep, yep.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Big girl.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
  • That's right (laughter).
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Unfortunately, when
  • you say that, I get this vision of the bruiser.
  • And Carla--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Was not a bruiser.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: No, she was like, what, 5' 4".
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: She was about my height, about 5' 6", 5' 7".
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Oh, all right.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I seem to remember.
  • Either that, or she was wearing combat boots
  • that made her a little taller.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Maybe.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And to be real honest,
  • she was the nicest thing.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Right, exactly.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: But I'm sure--
  • yeah, she would have stiff armed anybody out of there--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yep.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: God, I'm glad we found that name.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: That would have bothered me terribly.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: I know.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now, were the two of you born in Rochester?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: I was.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Only one of us has that distinction.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And you are--
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: I'm from New York City, the Bronx, Pelham Bay.
  • Any further and you get into farmland down there.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • When did you come to Rochester?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Oh, at twenty-one
  • VICKIE FUMIA: When you were young.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: twenty.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: When you were twenty.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah, well, I left New York
  • because it was seven million people.
  • And there were too many.
  • So I went from New York to--
  • I went-- I have always done extremes--
  • I went to Kingston, New York, where there were 600 people.
  • Unfortunately, I moved in the fall.
  • And by the end of the winter, I knew all 600 people.
  • And I said, OK, it's too small.
  • I have to move.
  • And then Woodstock happened same summer.
  • And I went, oh, my god, they're following me.
  • So I took off and came up here to Rochester.
  • And I met you within eight months of moving here.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: What year would this be, '70--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: What was it?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: '69, '70?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: When was Woodstock?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: '71?
  • '71.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: '71 was it?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: I think. '71-- '72 maybe, by the time
  • I met you.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Could be.
  • I don't know.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Oh, thank god.
  • It's you.
  • (ringtone playing)
  • I hear these tunes, and I just--
  • I think I'm hearing things.
  • I'm of that age where you kind of look around and--
  • a few other things that annoys me is when I go to a deli
  • counter, and somebody will suddenly say something to me.
  • And I look at them and think, they're talking on the phone.
  • Oh no, they're not.
  • And I'll answer them.
  • And of course, they are talking on the phone.
  • So I feel utterly stupid.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Right, right.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And they get me annoyed enough, I finally turn
  • around and just go, no, no, no.
  • No, no.
  • I'll be home in a half hour.
  • What else do we need?
  • All right, I'll be there next.
  • Yeah, I'll call you back.
  • Then I hit my head.
  • And they're, eggplant.
  • And I'll order what I need, and then I'll leave.
  • And I'm sure people have called there,
  • (whispering) I want the eggplant.
  • (laughter)
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So you were born in Rochester.
  • Whereabouts?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: In hospital.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Where did you grow up, right in Rochester?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: In Irondequoit.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Irondequoit, OK.
  • So before we get to Rosie's, I want
  • to kind of get a sense of--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: OK.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: --what Rochester's lesbian
  • and gay community was like before Rosie's ever came about.
  • You know, something-- I mean, how far back do you
  • remember as far as your involvement
  • in getting into the gay community in Rochester?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: You, know there was never
  • an object or a whatever, you know?
  • I went to private schools.
  • And then we moved to Ambassador Drive.
  • And then I went to college.
  • And I never paid too much attention to it.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Mm-hm.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: I knew there were gay people and straight people.
  • And it didn't matter to me.
  • And then I met Maureen because her partner was looking
  • for a house in Rochester.
  • My mother was a realtor, a real estate broker.
  • And she sold them a house over on Front Street.
  • And then one time, I'm in the home,
  • and I said, oh, she's an attractive woman.
  • And I said, what's the matter with you?
  • So before that, it never-- you know, if you're gay, fine.
  • If you're straight, fine.
  • If you're-- whatever.
  • But I never paid any attention to it.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: We should preface this with the fact
  • that Vickie owned a Corvette.
  • So according to my set of preambles here, Vickie was gay.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Because she owned a Corvette?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Oh, that, and the way she walked,
  • and what she wore.
  • I assumed.
  • (whispering) You should never assume.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No, you never should.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah, it was in '65, I bought the Corvette.
  • Because I always wanted one, and my father wouldn't buy me one.
  • I was really pissed off about that.
  • He bought me a car.
  • It was an awful car, oh!
  • It was a Chevy.
  • It was, you know, just wasn't what I wanted.
  • I wanted the Corvette.
  • So I said, I'll buy it myself.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So up until about 1972,
  • when you met Maureen, you really weren't very much involved
  • with the gay community in Rochester.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
  • So let's take it from--
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Neither of us were.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Well--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: The two of you meeting then?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Was there anything in your environment
  • that was negative toward the gay community?
  • Anybody say anything about--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Never came up, no.
  • No.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Because that's what we were hearing.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: You know--
  • well, my parents entertained a lot.
  • And they were part of the medical/dental community.
  • And my uncle was OB/GYN to deliver babies.
  • And there was never any--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: --you know?
  • No, there was no plus, or minus, or anything.
  • But then my mother was a little shocked
  • when your friend, your ex-friend,
  • told her that we were queer, or gay, or something.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Talk to me about that.
  • When was that?
  • Talk to me about that experience.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So was Maureen your first?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: And we've been friends ever since.
  • Strange.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Incredible.
  • My biggest worry was that I'd run out of conversation.
  • Obviously, I haven't.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No, thank goodness.
  • Well, my mother was a little horrified, you know?
  • And it was OK if you were gay, but not in her family.
  • So we kind of stayed out of the--
  • out of her view.
  • And-- oh, no, is that when she got mad at me and told me
  • I had to move?
  • Maybe that was.
  • And so I got an apartment on Elmwood Avenue.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: No, you were already in the apartment.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Was I?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, OK.
  • She must have gotten mad at me for something else.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: She always did.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • But it wasn't--
  • I don't even remember what she said.
  • Are you queer?
  • Or something like that.
  • I said, no, of course not.
  • I mean, what else would you say, yes?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No.
  • No, no, no, no, no.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: We owned a gay bar.
  • And according to my parents, I mean,
  • I always used T and G when I was talking about the bar.
  • Did they know I was gay?
  • Yes.
  • Did we discuss it openly?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
  • And it was like an unspoken language.
  • When my parents came up, we had the bar.
  • And I had looked at everybody in the bar,
  • and I said, now, listen to me.
  • My parents are coming in.
  • Boy girl, boy girl.
  • I do not want to see two girls together, two guys together.
  • Do you understand me?
  • And they were like [silent] I said, I'm serious.
  • I'll bar you here from life.
  • And you know we have memories like elephants.
  • And they were like, OK.
  • And I swear to God, I have never seen so many people
  • jumping stools from each other as when my parents came in.
  • And the bartender was trying to be nice.
  • And my mother was drinking a Coke.
  • And he'd keep grabbing the glass to put more Coke in it.
  • And my mother would bring it back to her.
  • And I'd go, Mom, he's not going to take your glass.
  • He just wants to fill it some more.
  • She goes, I'm fine.
  • I really am.
  • I'm fine.
  • And then my father went through the bar, and he came out.
  • And I looked at him and I said, so what do you think?
  • He nodded, and he looked at me.
  • He said, I'm impressed.
  • And I went, and you waited for the but?
  • And he walked outside.
  • I looked at my mother and said, he's impressed, but what?
  • My mother said, he said he was impressed.
  • I said, I heard that.
  • But where's the but?
  • And she looked at me.
  • And she said, there is no but.
  • And I went, oh!
  • Oh!
  • OK!
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, god.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Let's just jump back a little bit though.
  • When did you first discover the gay community in Rochester,
  • where you decided, OK, we need to get involved.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: I'll open a bar.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Well, you see--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Because my guess is that you didn't
  • open this bar right away.
  • You had to get to know the community a little bit.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: I own the building.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: I get to know the community.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Really?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Kind of.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Wait.
  • We owned an antique shop, so we met
  • a few gay people along the way.
  • And you meet gay people by, kind of, that look.
  • No one ever says anything until you finally break down,
  • and you go, yeah, we can be friends.
  • The people next to us, Laurie and Penny.
  • They were gay.
  • We knew them.
  • Laurie and Penny would go out to the bars. (whispering) God
  • forbid we did.
  • Vickie was a teacher.
  • And we had each other.
  • And it wasn't like we needed to go out and dance.
  • Well, Vickie doesn't dance.
  • And with the antique shop, we worked it
  • like eighteen hours a day.
  • So we really didn't have a social life.
  • And it was on Monroe Avenue.
  • So we saw a whole lot of--
  • well, life.
  • I mean, it was Monroe Avenue.
  • It was the closest you can get to New York City up here.
  • Then Vickie bought the building on Monroe Avenue.
  • And Friar's was across the street.
  • Vickie would sit in our little antique shop
  • with her face pasted against that door going,
  • do you see all the people in there?
  • And then we started going even more.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, so let me-- just back up here.
  • So before it was Rosie's, it was an antique shop.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Well, yeah.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • Yeah, it was.
  • I bought the building.
  • And we put the antique shop in there.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, what year did we start the antique shop?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: OK, the antique shop, we had had for a long--
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Long time.
  • See, we're not good with the dates either.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Dates, I'm terrible with.
  • But we had had it for, I don't know,
  • a few years, the antique shop.
  • And so yeah, I got this building.
  • We might as well use the space.
  • We'll put the antique shop in there.
  • And then we decided--
  • I decided-- that there were other ways
  • to make money besides an antique shop.
  • And Maureen, you sit here shaking your head?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: When she had this brilliant idea,
  • we were sitting at Friar's at the time.
  • Vickie knew Renee, started to know Renee.
  • Vickie leaned over and said, do you
  • see the money going over that bar?
  • Dollar bills hand over fist going across that bar.
  • We could do this.
  • And I went, (whispering) we know nothing about the bar business.
  • You'll lose your shirt.
  • And she went, (whispering) we didn't know anything
  • about the antique business.
  • And I went, (whispering) you knew antiques.
  • Huge difference.
  • So after this quiet conversation,
  • it just formulated in Vickie's brain
  • until she couldn't stand it And she kept saying,
  • (whispering) bright lights.
  • Money, bright lights.
  • And I kept saying, you don't understand.
  • It's going to be a lot, a lot, of work.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • Well--
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And Vickie went, (whispering) bright lights.
  • (laughter)
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Those will get you any time, every time.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: You know, she is a wonderful DJ.
  • She has a wonderful sense of rhythm.
  • She can't dance to save her life.
  • But her rhythm, and the way she would mix music--
  • and the lights would be going.
  • Vickie had a wonderful time.
  • She loved her lights.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yes, I did.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Did we make money hand over fist?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Did we work hard?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yes, we did.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Was it good for any of my relationships?
  • Why?
  • Because I owned the candy shop.
  • And I could have any piece of candy I wanted.
  • And I went, huh?
  • Are you kidding me?
  • In order to designate people, you
  • would designate them by what they drank.
  • And I once was going out with--
  • or I was just starting to go out with-- this girl
  • by the name of Susan.
  • Well, unfortunately she drank the same thing as another Susan
  • who I knew.
  • So we couldn't distinguish them by what they drank.
  • But we could by age.
  • She was twenty-nine.
  • So we called Susan, who's twenty-nine.
  • Susan twenty-nine.
  • Susan twenty-nine assumed I had had twenty-nine Susans.
  • And I went, oh, my god!
  • And you still went home with me?
  • And she went, yeah.
  • And I went, oh, dear god, I wouldn't
  • have touched with a bowl if you had twenty-nine.
  • And then I stopped.
  • I went, you haven't, have you?
  • You know it's moot at that point.
  • Well, deed's done. (laughter)
  • So to be real honest, we really didn't know the gay community
  • until Vickie wanted to open a bar.
  • And we should have known on Vickie's 40th--
  • you had just turned forty when you opened the bar.
  • Vickie's 40th birthday happened.
  • I decided to give her a party.
  • Took her out for dinner.
  • Brought her back to the bar.
  • I said, look, we're going to open in a few days.
  • Let's just go in.
  • The boys were on one side.
  • The girls were on another.
  • These are people who had known each other for at least as long
  • as we've known them, for at least Ten years.
  • I went in there, and I went, [silence]
  • And they all soon yelled, happy birthday.
  • But it was like, well, I want the girls singing it first
  • to the boys.
  • I was like, you know each other.
  • Why are we in groups here?
  • And that's, honestly, how the bar was.
  • When we opened the bar, we opened a gay bar.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yes, we did.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And we meant it for men and women.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: It wasn't for women or men.
  • It was for both.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Right.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: We thought it was time that they got together.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: You need both sides
  • of any coin for a logical view of anything.
  • And to be real honest, at last call,
  • he still doesn't want to go home with me.
  • He will go home with somebody ugly, but not me.
  • And I look at the girls and go, why?
  • why?
  • Not for nothing, but why?
  • This is our bar.
  • And I'd go, well, to be real honest,
  • it's Vickie's and my bar.
  • So I like the guys.
  • They're allowed to come in.
  • And most of them are my friends.
  • So be nice to them, or I'll throw you out!
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Because we need many more guys than women.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah, we did.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Why did you name it Rosie's?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: That was Vickie's.
  • It wasn't just Rosie's.
  • Ask her the full name.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: The legal name was Rosie's Truck Stop Baths Bar
  • and Disco.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Inc.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Incorporated. (laughter)
  • Rosie's Truck Stop Baths Bar and Disco, Incorporated.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And I looked at her, and I said, what?
  • And she went, we might expand.
  • And I went, oh, OK.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: You were thinking ahead.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: I certainly was.
  • I liked the name.(laughter)
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: You remember the iconic stained glass window?
  • And maybe you didn't.
  • But there was a stained glass window
  • in there dedicated to two brothers.
  • We got it out of the Presbyterian church
  • on East Avenue.
  • And the reason it's--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Down here by--
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: --was because Tiffany
  • made some of the windows.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Smile, or--
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: I looked over that window.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: --union?
  • Union.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Union.
  • Anyway, when they found out--
  • the neighborhood found out-- that we were opening a gay
  • bar--
  • and how they did, I have no idea,
  • it's not like we said gay bar opening--
  • but they decided we were opening a gay bar.
  • They made life (whispering) a little bit miserable.
  • And the parishioners would come walking in front of us saying,
  • you know it's blasphemous that you're using that window.
  • And they'd scream, and they'd yell,
  • and they'd carry on like trash.
  • Finally, I got tired of it.
  • And I walked out there, and I said, excuse me.
  • I bought that window.
  • Now, if it hadn't been unholy-ized by you guys,
  • we wouldn't have been able to buy it.
  • But we did buy it.
  • And if you don't stop yelling about this,
  • I will have our cancelled check published.
  • And on the cancelled check, it says Rosie's Truck Stop Baths
  • Bar and Disco, Inc. on the top of the check.
  • And your minister accepted it.
  • So if you don't want to see that in the paper--
  • and I will buy it as an advertisement,
  • I think 1/8 of a page would be perfect--
  • I suggest you stop coming by here yelling.
  • And I walked back into the bar.
  • Vickie looked at me, and she says, oh, my god,
  • I can't believe you did that.
  • And I said, well, I got tired of them.
  • Well, don't laugh. (laughter) She rented to AA.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah, I did.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
  • Vickie thought it was funny. (laughter)
  • VICKIE FUMIA: I get tired of people getting drunk.
  • They're supposed to come and have a good time.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: She would send me over to people.
  • Tell Calvin he's drinking too much.
  • What?
  • We own a bar.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: I had an empty shop.
  • And I rented to AA.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And then they started marching.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: And then I'd send them there.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: They were marching in front of my corner.
  • I went out.
  • And I said, excuse me, I don't think
  • you're allowed to march here.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: I did a lot of public service.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And Vickie looked at me--
  • the guy looked at me.
  • He said, I rent here.
  • And I went, what?
  • I said, I don't think so.
  • He goes, oh, yes.
  • I rent that third shop.
  • I went, OK, parade down there.
  • You cannot parade on my corner.
  • Parade down there.
  • So I got on the phone.
  • I said, did you rent to AA?
  • And she went, oh, yeah.
  • I forgot to tell you.
  • I-- thanks, and I slammed down the phone.
  • I said, I can't believe she did that. (laughter)
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Well, you know, they
  • have to have someplace to go too.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Equal opportunity.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: That's right.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Then, because she's
  • on the downtown beautification committee-- god
  • knows how you got on that.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, it was the--
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: I thought it was broads ware, square, actually,
  • when we were involved in that.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No, it was--
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Anyway, for five years,
  • Vickie would get the citizen--
  • the citizen of Rochester award.
  • It would come.
  • And she'd show it to me.
  • And I go, son of a bitch.
  • Why the hell do you get that?
  • She goes, because I keep people off the streets.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: That wasn't why I got it.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: But you said that's why you got it.
  • That was enough. (laughter) It wasn't funny.
  • Life was miserable for me. (laughter)
  • And then when one of us would go away
  • for vacation, usually when I'd go away for vacation,
  • I would leave Vickie.
  • Our employees would always be very unhappy.
  • They'd go, she didn't smile for two weeks.
  • I said, well, none of you, obviously, entertained her.
  • (whispering) I'm saying, not for two weeks.
  • We thought we were all going to get fired.
  • Oh, good.
  • Did we make any money?
  • Whatever she didn't steal.
  • I'd go, really?
  • OK.
  • Well, aren't you going to do anything about it?
  • I said, yeah.
  • I'm going to wait till she goes on vacation and steal it back.
  • That's a good idea.
  • I thought so.
  • Plus we make more money when I'm here.
  • And I'd look at Vickie, and I go,
  • they honest to God believe you don't?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: They'd tell me that you were stealing.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
  • That we don't talk to each other?
  • I'm thinking, no, obviously not.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: What year did Rosie's open up?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: OK, let me think.
  • It had to be--
  • it was open for--
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Twelve years.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Twelve years.
  • And we closed in, what '90--
  • let's see.
  • 19--
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: OK, we opened in--
  • How old are you?
  • Go back that way.
  • Because with forty--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: seventy-three.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: You're seventy-three.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: All right, seventy-three, forty.
  • Thirty-three years ago, we opened.
  • Thirty-three years ago makes it '79.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: That's right, '79.
  • '79.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Because the first time
  • I saw an ad for Rosie's, in the Empty Closet, was--
  • I think I wrote you an email.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, you said '79.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: August.
  • July, August of 1979.
  • Because we were trying to open up that summer,
  • and we couldn't because of something or other.
  • Oh, our entertainment license.
  • That was another thing.
  • We were almost thrown out of business there.
  • We don't have me deal with government and people.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No, no, no.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: I upset them.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So did you close it in what, '91?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah, I think.
  • Yeah.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So you touched upon this a little bit
  • when you first opened up, and the kind of crowd
  • you were getting.
  • How did that--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Change?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, how did your clientele change,
  • and how quickly did it change?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: It became non-existent
  • in our second month.
  • We fired Renee.
  • Well--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And then the bartenders--
  • are we allowed to say this, considering Jesse won't
  • be able to be interviewed?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Jesse--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Bulo.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Bulo.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: OK.
  • End it up this way.
  • Jesse had priors.
  • And Jesse's bartender, whether or not
  • Jesse said, yes, do this or not, we have no idea.
  • And nor do we think he would have.
  • But the bartenders would ask the guys,
  • where are you going there?
  • And everybody goes to a new gay bar to see all new faces.
  • They don't realize that everybody
  • who's been in some of those bars is going over here.
  • They're the same faces.
  • Anyway, all new faces, supposedly, at the new bar.
  • Well, after the first month, you realize there are no new faces.
  • We go back to where we're comfortable.
  • And when they didn't come back fast enough,
  • the bartenders would say it's a girl's bar to the guys.
  • And when the girls would come in, they'd go,
  • it's a guy's bar.
  • Why are you going over there?
  • So they were telling both sexes, whichever bar they weren't, it
  • was the opposite.
  • So we had nobody.
  • And unfortunately, a lot of the bartenders we didn't hire
  • get a little obnoxious.
  • One of them, unfortunately, made Vickie cry.
  • Not a good thing to do.
  • I got very angry.
  • So I went across to Friar's to confront the bartender.
  • Unfortunately, I got to confront Renee, which I didn't think
  • was a bad idea either.
  • Vickie was running after me and just couldn't grab me.
  • She was just a hair slips too short.
  • And I had fire in my eyes.
  • I was going to kill--
  • well, it was a guy, a black haired guy.
  • What was his name?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Not Buddy.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: No, he was Renee's cousin.
  • And we fired him too.
  • Anyway, I was chasing him.
  • And--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Not Tony Green.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: No, no, no, no.
  • Tony never came to the full bartender job with us.
  • Anyway, I think we were the only people who
  • ever had him as a bartender.
  • He was a slob, just a slob.
  • He was a real bad drunk.
  • Anyway, I went chasing him, didn't find him.
  • Found Renee instead.
  • Thought well, what the hell.
  • I'll kill her.
  • She stole $5,000 from me.
  • I want to kill her.
  • So I went lunging towards Renee, and--
  • well, Jesse was always in the way.
  • And some way or another, he grabbed a hold of Vickie
  • and put Vickie in front of him and sidestepped both of us.
  • So Rene was totally exposed.
  • I went for Renee.
  • She threw the girlfriend at me.
  • So I ended up catching the girlfriend.
  • Never got Renee.
  • I just put the girlfriend up, looked and realized
  • Jesse was holding Vickie.
  • I grabbed a hold of Vickie, pushed Vickie behind me.
  • I looked at her, and I said, we're going to stay.
  • We'll still be across the street when you're dead and buried.
  • And stormed out of there.
  • Wonderful last words.
  • And for the next two years, we sat there
  • looking at each other, almost.
  • I think it was at least a year.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No, it wasn't that long.
  • It wasn't that long.
  • And we said, well, we'll have to have--
  • you know, if the guys aren't coming,
  • then the girls will have to come.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Well, nobody was coming there for a while.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: I know.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Then the girls started trickling in.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: They started coming.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Then we did juice bar.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yes, we did.
  • We did juice bar.
  • And every place else was closed.
  • So they'd come over to our place.
  • And then they started coming in--
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: For last call.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: And they'd come in afternoons.
  • Because we were open from, what, 2:00?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: 2:00 on.
  • And they just kept coming.
  • And then it was predominantly women that came in.
  • And that was fine.
  • They were still drinking.
  • Yeah.
  • And the juice bar was fun.
  • It really was.
  • You'd have the police there to begin with,
  • checking to make sure it was juice and not something else.
  • But they went away.
  • And we went ahead with it, and we stayed in business
  • for a long time.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Until it stopped being fun.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: And then I said to Maureen, you know,
  • it's not fun anymore.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: It wasn't fun for over a year.
  • At which point, I called Vickie, and I said, you're right.
  • It's not fun.
  • Well, actually. what happened was
  • that I was sitting talking to someone,
  • and I said something about do you
  • remember where you were when President Kennedy got shot?
  • And unfortunately, somebody who was like all of ten
  • was standing between us and said, oh, you were alive then?
  • And I looked at her.
  • And I went, yes.
  • And she floated away very quickly.
  • And I turned around, and I said, Jesus, I suddenly
  • feel like I was alive for Abraham Lincoln's shot.
  • And the girl looked at me and said, don't be silly,
  • you look fine.
  • And I was like, that doesn't sound good either.
  • Then I started thinking about it.
  • And I said, no, I really--
  • I've now become a legend in my own time.
  • Time to move on.
  • Called Vickie up, and I said, it is no longer fun.
  • It hasn't been fun in years.
  • I said, they don't even have a fight anymore.
  • I haven't had a bad fight before.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Of course, they wouldn't have a fight.
  • Because as soon as they had a fight, we'd called the police.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Well, that, and the fact
  • that we barred them for life.
  • And no one got back in.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: So why are you going
  • to bother to fight there if you're never
  • going to come back?
  • Hell, we had the best lights, and we had the best music.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Pretty good DJs.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • Yeah, it was fun.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And to be real honest, it really was fun.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: It was fun for a long time.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
  • We used to decorate wonderfully.
  • We were discussing that earlier.
  • We had decorated once, and we had decorated up our cast iron
  • pipes in the middle of the bar with ferns--
  • the poles-- with ferns.
  • And Gary had wired the little lights.
  • Well, we also had a little fire with 400 people there.
  • And I couldn't get out from behind the bar.
  • So I was going over the top.
  • And I'm going to lunge for the pipe
  • and just drag it down to the ground.
  • And Vickie walks over, pushes her way through the crowd,
  • pulls the thing down and stomps on it.
  • I was like, good one. (unintelligible) (laughter)
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you think, somewhere within this twelve
  • years of operating this business,
  • do you think you carved out some sort of particular need
  • for the gay community?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I mean, do you think
  • you made a significant contribution
  • for this community?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Absolutely.
  • They had a nice place to go.
  • We had a nice place to go.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: They got good liquor.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yep.
  • We didn't water anything down.
  • And you knew that you weren't going to have a lot of trouble
  • there because we jumped on trouble right away.
  • That was it.
  • And if we had to go down to the public whatever--
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Court.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: --where the polices are,
  • we'd go at night when we closed up.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: We'd show up.
  • Cops used to love to come to work
  • with us because they knew we'd be there at court the next day.
  • And they would get something on their collar or whatever,
  • and it would go through.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: So we stopped trouble pretty much early on.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And I think the cops, in general,
  • started to view gay people with more of a better attitude.
  • One of the cops, he was just making our lives a living hell.
  • And he would ticket on--
  • what's this street back here, Broadway?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Marshall.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Marshall.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Marshall?
  • No, Marshall was on the side.
  • What's the street--
  • Griffith.
  • Griffith Street.
  • And he would ticket us, which meant
  • he had to drive down Marshall Street in order to ticket us.
  • And everything on Marshall Street wasn't ticketed.
  • It's in the runner.
  • I said, go touch those goddamn cars.
  • Go touch the hoods.
  • What?
  • I said, go touch the hoods.
  • Come back and tell me.
  • And he's writing up the tickets as fast as he could.
  • And I said, all right, in front of the fire hydrant,
  • was there a car?
  • He said, yeah.
  • I said, how is the hood?
  • He said, kind of cool.
  • And I went, good.
  • I looked at the cop, and I said, all right,
  • when you're done here, I want you to walk around the corner.
  • Or better still, drive around the corner,
  • and I want you to ticket them.
  • What for?
  • I said, there is a car illegally parked in front of the hydrant.
  • And unless he happened to pull up from next door,
  • his hood should be hot.
  • And it's cold.
  • My bouncer-- my-- whatever-- what
  • do we call the guy who collected the bottles?
  • Whatever he was, he had to go run around the corner.
  • So the cop walked over there, and he
  • started writing the ticket.
  • And of course, the whole bar emptied out,
  • ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba.
  • They were all yelling and screaming.
  • And the cop turned around, and he
  • said, if you want to yell and scream, scream at her.
  • She's the one that's making me do it.
  • And I looked at them, and I said, yes, I am.
  • And I happen to own Rosie's.
  • And to be real honest, my people are
  • real tired of getting tickets when you guys don't get any.
  • Well, (mimicking)
  • Then I looked at the cop.
  • I said, I hope you're real happy, because if one of them
  • swings at me, I'm not raising a hand.
  • And not only will I sue them, I'll
  • sue you for inciting this riot.
  • The cop said, all right, all right.
  • Now all of you just calm down.
  • And I thought, oh, good.
  • And I walked back to Rosie's.
  • He happened to have the afternoon shift.
  • Ha!
  • And cops are strange.
  • They, honest to God, believe that, with this uniform,
  • I have command.
  • You will do what I say.
  • Well, most people do.
  • But when there are two guys beating on one guy,
  • they're not going to pay a bit of attention to you.
  • Cop pulled over.
  • I said, stop that.
  • He must've thought they came out of my bar.
  • Luckily, they had come from the apartment
  • house across the street.
  • Wheeling on this guy, they didn't break it up.
  • And he walked over--
  • and he was only like maybe 5' 10"--
  • pulled one of them away, and the other guy cold cocked him.
  • He went down.
  • Then they started kicking him.
  • Well, the girls in the bar were watching this.
  • One of them called 911.
  • The other one went running outside--
  • whose uncle happened to be a police
  • officer in one of the towns--
  • grabbed his thing, and yelled into it,
  • officer down, officer down, and then dropped the mic.
  • And I think she had the billy club, so she wailed
  • on one of the other guys.
  • And then all these cop cars showed up.
  • The cop had to be taken off in an ambulance.
  • That's how bad he was.
  • And he came back about a week and a half later.
  • I happened to be in the bar.
  • I walked outside, and I looked.
  • And he was kind of looking in the door.
  • And I said, you can come in, we don't bite.
  • He said, oh, I know that.
  • But I'm looking for someone.
  • And I said, who?
  • He said, I don't know her name.
  • I said, well, that's helpful.
  • Can you describe her?
  • He goes, not really.
  • I said, well, then who is it?
  • He said, well, she came running out.
  • And if it hadn't been for her, I'd
  • probably be really seriously injured.
  • I said, oh, wait a second.
  • My bartender happens to know who that is.
  • I'll ask her to tell you who it is.
  • And he got the name, and sure enough,
  • left her a little note thanking her.
  • He said, you know, just if you have any trouble,
  • you let me know.
  • And I looked at him, and I said, that's a little change
  • in attitude.
  • And he said, hey, if they hadn't come out and helped me.
  • And I said, well, you know, I hate to point this out to you,
  • but all of these people are somebody's sister, somebody's
  • aunt, and could be somebody's mother, you know?
  • You don't know who you're dealing with.
  • They're just people.
  • And to be real honest, I think the cops eventually
  • got that idea, if, for no other reason,
  • than the fact that for twelve years,
  • they didn't have a lot of hassle from us.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No, they didn't.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Before it got to the point
  • where it wasn't fun anymore--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: --what was the most fun about running that bar
  • and about having that kind of clientele?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: The music, the lights.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: What were you seeing happening in the bar,
  • other than women hooking up with women?
  • I'm trying to get a little beyond that.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Well, it was a place-- you know,
  • afternoons we had a totally different clientele
  • than we did in the evenings.
  • And, actually, the serious drinkers
  • were in the afternoons, and that's
  • why I'd have to rent to AA. (laughter)
  • I was trying to save them. (laughter)
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: She prayed for them.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Cool, don't open the bar until 6:00 at night.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Right.
  • Right
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: When we first moved into the neighborhood,
  • the busiest bar opened at 7:00 AM in the morning.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Oh, my god.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And he was across the street,
  • where the Vietnamese moved in.
  • And he closed by 4:00.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yep, he did.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And all the rentees and retirees
  • would stumble to the bar, and he'd get their check.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • But it was a nice bar.
  • It looked good.
  • It wasn't shabby.
  • Things weren't falling apart.
  • We made sure that everything was always fixed.
  • And if something happened, we'd take care of that.
  • And people didn't have to be afraid to go there.
  • You could park your car and walk into the bar
  • without a big deal.
  • And that was basically it.
  • It was a nice place to go.
  • And you see, when we said we were opening up a bar,
  • the other bar owners laughed at us.
  • They had a wonderful time laughing at us, saying,
  • you don't know anything about the bar business.
  • You don't even drink.
  • What are you going to do opening up a bar?
  • We said, well, you know, we'll wait and see.
  • That's what we're going to do.
  • And so we did.
  • We opened up a bar, and it was a nice bar.
  • I'd go to New York maybe four times
  • a year to get all the latest music.
  • And our DJs were good.
  • We'd change the lights periodically.
  • And it was fun.
  • It was fun to go there.
  • And that's basically why.
  • But you know what?
  • After twelve years, it gets tired.
  • I got tired, anyway.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So just kind of a related question
  • to what I just asked you for someone
  • who may have been at your bar in the twelve year period,
  • at this point.
  • A few years from now, if I were to ask that person, oh,
  • tell me about Rosie's.
  • What would you want that person, that clientele,
  • to say about your bar?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: I don't know.
  • Now, what people generally say is Rosie's, we
  • had the best time there.
  • I guess something like that.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Are you going to open up again?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah, no.
  • Uh-uh.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Once was enough.
  • Thanks.
  • And people ask, (whispering) don't you miss it?
  • And periodically, I miss dancing.
  • Other than that, no.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No.
  • It was a lot of work, a lot of work.
  • You have to check the liquor.
  • You have to check the glasses.
  • You have to check this, that, and the other thing.
  • Make sure the ice machine is working.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, let me ask you this.
  • In today's society, do you think there's a need
  • for Rosie's, a bar like Rosie's?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Sure.
  • I think there is.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do you agree with that, Maureen?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: (pause) I guess so.
  • It really was.
  • It was kind of like a private club.
  • We had the deep mahogany.
  • You could sit there and feel comfortable without really
  • having to get plastered.
  • Nobody really forced you to drink anything.
  • 99 percent of the time, I was on Coca-Cola.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So yeah.
  • I want to kind of follow up on that.
  • You kind of touched upon it.
  • But I want to get your opinion on it.
  • I'm going to ask it this way.
  • What made Rosie's special?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: The fact that we didn't have
  • any mirrors on our dance floor.
  • Really.
  • I cannot tell you how often I have danced and thought I was
  • dancing with someone to find them dancing with their mirror
  • image.
  • And Rosie's didn't have any mirrors.
  • We honestly didn't have-- well, we had the mirrored windows.
  • They were so far away from the dance floor that--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah, but that was just
  • because of the stuff on them, so that they
  • didn't break too easily.
  • Yeah.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: But we didn't have
  • any mirrors on the dance floor.
  • We had a couple of-- well, I'm not even sure if people even
  • realized that--
  • the crocks that lined the back bar.
  • There were a couple of thousand dollars' worth of crocks up
  • there.
  • And probably the most fun I had was when somebody would tell me
  • they owned the bar.
  • And I'd come in, and I'd look at the bartender.
  • And the bartender would go, (mumbling)
  • like signaling that (whispering) they're telling everybody
  • they're buying the drinks.
  • And I'd go, oh, OK.
  • Who cares?
  • And then I'd look at the guy and go, really?
  • I was under the impression two women owned this.
  • Oh, yeah, they did.
  • I bought them out.
  • Really?
  • For a lot of money?
  • Or, do you mind me asking this?
  • Did you have to pay a lot?
  • I mean, Look at the walnut on the walls.
  • And, are you going to put mirrors on the dance floor?
  • Yeah, of course.
  • People need mirrors.
  • And I'd go, oh, good.
  • Oh, those crocks must have set you back.
  • So how much did you have to pay for the bar?
  • Well, look, let me buy you a drink.
  • And I'd look at the bartender and tell them what I'd want.
  • I'd say, no, no, no.
  • You're the owner.
  • You shouldn't have to pay for that.
  • And he'd look at the bartender, and he'd go, (silence).
  • And I'd look at the bartender and say,
  • the owner is saying that you really
  • shouldn't have to pay for that.
  • And then he'd go, well, I'd like another one.
  • And then he'd go to push his money forward.
  • And I'd go, no, the owner said he
  • doesn't have to pay for that.
  • And he'd look at me and go, (silence).
  • And he'd look at the bartender.
  • And I'd say, maybe you should tell him who I am.
  • And the bartender would go, this is the owner.
  • And I'd go, so do you still want that drink?
  • Well, I'll see you later.
  • Good idea.
  • And he'd leave.
  • And sometimes it would go on for a while.
  • And sometimes it would just be, oh, please.
  • I have other things to do today.
  • But truthfully, just that they had a really good time there.
  • And it was safe.
  • I think everybody who went in there felt safe.
  • And as I said, we used to hire bouncers.
  • Not because of how good they could fight,
  • but because they were 6' 5", and they never
  • had to fight, or 6' 3".
  • First time I hired Al, this street couple
  • would come in from the Glass Onion.
  • And this six foot guy-- had to be 6' 6"
  • because even I had to look up at him--
  • and he had this midget of a girlfriend.
  • She must have been only five feet tall.
  • And she was poking him and making this huge noise.
  • And I'm like, wow, all that noise coming out
  • of that little bitch.
  • Get her out of here.
  • What should I do?
  • I said, I don't know.
  • You're the bouncer.
  • Get her out of here.
  • And he doubled over.
  • And he said, would you mind leaving?
  • And she said, yes, and continued to harangue this poor guy.
  • And finally-- must be mine.
  • And finally, Al leaned over, grabbed her leg,
  • grabbed her underneath the armpit,
  • lifted her over his head, and walked out the door.
  • He then put her down.
  • She was so shocked, she was speechless.
  • And he came back in.
  • I closed the door and locked it really fast.
  • I looked at him.
  • I said, I don't care how much you paid her,
  • but you don't have to worry about having a fight
  • here ever, ever again.
  • And he looked at me, and he said, why not?
  • I said, there isn't a girl in here
  • who wants to be carried out like that (laughter).
  • And that's what made it fun, truly.
  • It was never, ooh, look how many people are here.
  • It was never the crowd or how much money we made.
  • It's rich it survived.
  • There was one day when no one showed up.
  • I mean, no one showed up.
  • Me and the barback.
  • And the
  • Barback didn't know much.
  • He had steel toed boots.
  • And he proceeded to break our gallon wine
  • thingies on the floor.
  • So I was slugging through wine, and had for over 400 people.
  • No one was there.
  • Vickie kind of waltzed in at 11 o'clock.
  • I was making customers bring back glasses.
  • I would hand the ice thingy to other customers and say,
  • I'll give you a beer.
  • Get me ice.
  • Just throwing beers out there.
  • The barback, I made him a bartender instantaneously.
  • I said, sell them beer.
  • Everything's one dollar and a quarter.
  • Just hit one dollar and a quarter.
  • I did the mixed drinks.
  • Vickie came walking in and said, why didn't you call?
  • I went (laughing).
  • She goes, oh, I'll go get glasses.
  • I grabbed a hold of the back of her.
  • I said, sell drinks!
  • I sent the barback out to grab glasses.
  • I should have sent Vickie out.
  • It would have been faster.
  • But at any rate, it was one of those nights we survived.
  • But again, you sit down, and you go,
  • I don't know how we got through that!
  • And Vickie goes, you just should have called.
  • And I'm like, number one, you can never--
  • the DJ had shown up, but she refused
  • to put anything on tape.
  • So I was like, bartenders, this is where we
  • make the money, not out there.
  • Nobody cared.
  • Nobody cared. (laughter)
  • VICKIE FUMIA: It was fun.
  • It was fun.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So what are you guys doing now?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: She's a massage therapist.
  • And I'm a bum. (laughter)
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you still own the building?
  • Do you still rent it?
  • No, you sold it.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No, I sold it to the people
  • that owned the Bug Jar.
  • And I don't know if they sold it, or they still own it,
  • or what.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Let me ask you.
  • What happened to the bar when AIDS hit Rochester?
  • I mean, 1984, '85.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: We lost a lot of friends.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: A lot of friends.
  • But by then, our clientele was basically full.
  • So it didn't impact our business as such.
  • But everyone that came in there was losing a friend, or two,
  • or three, or four.
  • It was an awful time.
  • It was a devastating time for everybody.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: It was like a major epidemic.
  • The first one to go, I think, was Jesse, wasn't it?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Was it Jesse?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: His was the first funeral I remember going to.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yep.
  • And then it was just--
  • I mean, you could count the--
  • every day, you'd hear about somebody else.
  • It wasn't good.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Did you ever think
  • about becoming more active, in terms of really doing something
  • with the bar or with the people in the bar,
  • to protest, to try to bring more attention to the epidemic,
  • or to the disease, so that the money would begin to come
  • through the pipeline for AIDS patients,
  • or for research, or for whatever?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No, not really.
  • It was still that time, you know.
  • Well, we closed at the beginning of the '90s.
  • And before that--
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: It was just a gay epidemic.
  • And there was no funding, really.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No, and we didn't seek to--
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Even start something like that.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: --to start something
  • like that, which we should have done.
  • But we didn't.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: You know, the thing, too,
  • to remember is that it was also during the time of Ryan
  • as the police chief.
  • And there was better communication
  • between us and the cops.
  • Wasn't it Ryan?
  • Whoever was the police chief at the time--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: I don't remember who it was.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: --had better communicate-- well,
  • that was the only authority I ever
  • got to talk to with the cops.
  • They liked me.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: It wasn't Urlacher, was it?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Gordon was the first police liaison
  • with the gay community, but that was in
  • the '70s, late '70s, early '80s.
  • This would have been much later.
  • And I don't know--
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And I don't remember, truthfully.
  • But I do remember going up and meeting--
  • because I was always bad with names--
  • meeting with him and discussing what was going on,
  • and how the cops had improved.
  • Did I see any difference, da, da, da, da, da da.
  • And for a while--
  • wasn't there somebody going around maiming gay people--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I don't remember that.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: --with an ice pick or something.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I don't remember.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And we were supposed to be on the lookout.
  • And that was the only one we ever
  • fired, because she didn't interview in the bar.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: There with the skinheads on Monroe Avenue.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: They never came down that far.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And there was a order
  • of protection for LGBT people on Monroe Avenue,
  • between the inner loop and 490, at the corner of Monroe
  • and by the library there.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Right, right.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Well, I would think
  • the pub would maybe have more problems with the skinheads.
  • And the skinheads were really down by-- wasn't that bar
  • called Ryan's?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yes.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: It was always a bad bar.
  • And that's where we had our antique shop
  • years and years and years ago.
  • But we also had a real mean shop cat.
  • They sent their German Shepherd.
  • I sent my cat, my shop cat.
  • My shop cat won. (laughter)
  • The guy came back screaming and yelling.
  • And I looked at him, and I said, look at the size of your dog.
  • Look at the size of my cat.
  • Are you kidding?
  • (whispering)
  • But no, not really.
  • We never thought of doing anything like that.
  • But then no one else did either.
  • Well, I do remember--
  • well, we supported the gay picnic, the gay beat pride,
  • what's this every year.
  • Had anybody asked us, we would have been right there.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: But we didn't think of it.
  • No.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: If you could somehow
  • get the ear of young people today,
  • what would you say to them about the gay community in Rochester?
  • What would you want them to know,
  • or what would you want them to be aware of?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: That the gay community in Rochester
  • is an active force.
  • It really is.
  • It may not be labeled gay community.
  • But there are a lot of people in the gay community who
  • do a lot of good things in Rochester.
  • And I think they should know things like that.
  • But I also think that they should
  • know people in the arts that are gay
  • and have done fantastic things.
  • And they should know business people
  • like George Eastman, who's twisting around in his grave
  • now.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Would you push them to AA?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Only if they were drinkers.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Only if they're drinking too much. (laughs)
  • You have to have all your wits about you.
  • Oh, Lord.
  • No, but I'd wish them to get involved in things
  • and do some good works in the community.
  • Everybody should.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Maureen?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Do what they love to do,
  • because then you don't work.
  • As long as you're having fun at what you're doing,
  • it's not work.
  • And you'll be good at it.
  • You also have to be persistent, regardless of how many people
  • say you can't--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: You can.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: --know you can.
  • But I'm one of those strange people who
  • believe that people are people.
  • And I don't meet you as, oh, you're a heterosexual, first.
  • I meet you as a person.
  • So I don't think I have to announce to the world
  • that I'm gay.
  • My sexuality shouldn't be part of our conversation.
  • And if you make it part of the conversation, fine.
  • But expect what you get, is whatever you're going to get.
  • I'm not going to change.
  • But at the same time, I don't have
  • to greet everybody I know as, are you gay,
  • or are you straight?
  • I may not like you either way.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: That's true.(laughter)
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: That's serious.
  • The older you get, I think, you're
  • less willing to waste your time.
  • When you're young, you've got all the time in the world.
  • Plus you also think you're going to die young and pretty.
  • So after you get past the young and pretty part,
  • you go, OK, fine, now I'm stuck.
  • What did I learn?
  • So you have to keep learning as you go.
  • Because hardly any of us die young and pretty.
  • And you've got to start out pretty first. (laughter)
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, dear.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I have no more questions.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I have one more.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: She's been thinking
  • about this one for a while.
  • I can see it in her eyes. (laughter)
  • EVELYN BAILEY: If there was one thing you could have changed,
  • or done over, when you had the bar, what would it have been?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: I would have been very
  • happy if we had gotten the guys and the girls
  • to come in together and have a good time together, you know?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Actually, I'm one of those strange people who
  • believe if you change one thing, it changes the entire thing.
  • So I'm not real sure I would have changed any of it.
  • Because all of it, the sum total, is what makes Rosie's.
  • And it wasn't just one evening there,
  • it was many evenings that comprises a whole, where they
  • can say, it was a great bar.
  • I used to go to Jim's.
  • It was a great bar.
  • It was filthy as crap.
  • I never would have gone to the bathrooms.
  • But it was a great bar.
  • Because I danced there.
  • I had a wonderful time.
  • The drinks, so-so.
  • I loved dancing there.
  • So for me, Jim's was dancing.
  • The other bars, we just went to because that's what
  • bar owners were supposed to do.
  • Actually, we found out later that the bar owners were
  • checking on their clientele.
  • I thought they were just being nice. (laughter)
  • We used to have a Bar Owners Association-- oh, dear god--
  • and all the bar owners would get together.
  • And then Vickie and I would show up.
  • So we had all these guys.
  • And all of a sudden, one of them would
  • start fighting with another one of them.
  • And at one point, we were on--
  • what was that, Edwards?
  • Not Edwards.
  • The one on Alexander Street there.
  • Close from--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: There was Lloyd's.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Lloyd's.
  • Fred Lloyd's.
  • We were in the upstairs room.
  • They started arguing.
  • I don't know how Vickie got out from between me,
  • but she got out of the way.
  • And I was standing between the two of them.
  • And I'm thinking to myself, oh, dear god, they're
  • going to shove me right out the window and go after each other.
  • I can see it now.
  • My mother is going to go to the O.R.
  • to tell Vickie not to have a funeral here.
  • But we had just come from a girls funeral,
  • and they had dressed for Lesley.
  • And when I saw them, I hit the floor.
  • And I turned around to Vickie, and I
  • said, (whispering) if I die tomorrow,
  • do not have my funeral here.
  • Send me to Florida.
  • Do not have it here.
  • I do not want my mother to see this.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, dear.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So why do you think
  • there was such animosity, or inability to come together,
  • among the men and the women?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: It wasn't animosity.
  • Well, it was probably animosity on the girls' side,
  • only because they said the guys had so many bars.
  • And because I think most women think of themselves
  • as second class citizens.
  • I think they looked at Vickie and I
  • as oddities, opening up a bar, period.
  • But most women don't open businesses.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Didn't.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Didn't.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: We had the largest gay bar, women's
  • gay bar, in upstate New York.
  • And I used to look at Vickie and go, really?
  • And she'd go, yeah.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: It's true
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Wow.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: But what did you know of the Riverview though?
  • Because that was a women's bar, Right
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • Sure was.
  • Right?
  • That's where everybody went, a lot of people.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Not much.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: But it wasn't--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: It was a lot rougher.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Very.
  • Yeah.
  • Yeah.
  • Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So yeah, what Maureen said just said it.
  • It kind of struck me odd that they
  • would look at you as two women who are bar owners.
  • But you already had women owning a bar.
  • Riverview was owned by women, wasn't it?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Right.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: By a woman.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, but her husband--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Martha's was owned by a woman.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah, but she was a married woman.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yes.
  • And what's her name.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: So was the Riverview.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: So we did have husbands there.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: For a long time.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: What, if anything,
  • did you know about Martha's?
  • What was it?
  • It was Dick's 43?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Was that owned by Martha?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Actually, one of the stories I heard--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, I was going to say,
  • were they still in business when you opened or not?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yes.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Were they already gone?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: No, they were in business, I'm sure.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I think they reopened.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Over on South Avenue or something?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: No, they reopened there.
  • And then one of them got shot or something.
  • Or they all got shot.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, she did.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, Martha got shot.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Martha got shot.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah, they were never a place
  • that I wanted to go to, really.
  • And to be very honest with you, as I said, the male gay bar
  • owners used to say, what are you two opening up a gay bar for?
  • And we had never really gone to bars here.
  • It's just that we'd hear stories.
  • And then we started going out to bars
  • to see what they were like.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: And hey, we could do that.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yes, we could.
  • We did.
  • And the Riverview was kind of seedy.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: I was going to say a dive.
  • But seedy will do. (Bailey laughs)
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: And Martha's, I never went into.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: But it looks seedy from the outside.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • And, oh, what was it, the Blue Chip?
  • 110 years ago?
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: That was--
  • I had been to a couple of times.
  • And that was a--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What about the Bachelor Forum?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah, yeah.
  • Went there.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Tara's?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Again.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Tara's looked aged to me.
  • Bachelor Forum?
  • A dive.
  • So to be real honest, Friar's was the best bar as far
  • as looks, in comparison to everybody else's.
  • And it shocked me when you went to the other bars,
  • because of Friar's.
  • They all had to look that good.
  • And we definitely wanted ours to look as good as Friar's.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: You're looking better.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Thank you.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah, I do.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I enjoyed Rosie's very much--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: I did too.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --when I went there.
  • I came out '78--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: OK.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --'79, here in Rochester.
  • I didn't start going to the bars until '86, '87,
  • with Claire Parker Chick.
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Chick, yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And then went to Rosie's.
  • And Joan Jeffrey--
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yep.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --you remember Joan?
  • VICKIE FUMIA: Yes.
  • MAUREEN BOYLE: Oh, yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I met her.
  • And when Claire and I went out, I said to Claire, is she crazy?
  • (laughter) And Claire said, yes.
  • But she was visionary in many, many ways.
  • She had--