Audio Interview, Maureen Boyle and Vickie Fumia, January 10, 2012
- KEVIN INDOVINO: She was a really muscular girl, really big,
- with short, cropped hair.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: I actually (unintelligible) she only
- lasted a month.
- Somebody went into her face.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Brenda?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: No, that doesn't sound familiar either.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And she just backed up.
- And I went, excuse me, you're the bouncer.
- You're supposed to be there.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: No, this woman wouldn't have backed up.
- Because another friend of mine, who was a straight guy,
- tried to come into the bar once to come get me.
- And she fessed right up to him and said,
- you can't come in here.
- I said, but my friend's in there.
- And then he almost went to blows about it.
- And I looked at it and went, no, no, no, he's with me.
- (laughter)
- VICKIE FUMIA: Boy, I don't know.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to say, Laureen?
- Lauren?
- Lauren maybe.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: No.
- Geez, I can't remember.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Renee?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: No, it wasn't Renee.
- EVELYN BAILEY: No, Renee only lasted a month.
- VICKIE FUMIA: She lasted a short time
- because her hand was where it shouldn't have been.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I don't know.
- It will come to me.
- I remember her specifically because of that incident
- with my roommate at the time.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: What about fast end bartender?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Blonde.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Her girlfriend.
- She wasn't tall by any means.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: No, she wasn't taller than me.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: But time makes people--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But she was big and muscular.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, what's her name?
- Yeah.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: I just said that.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Liesels.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Carla.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: There you go.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Carla.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Carla, yes.
- VICKIE FUMIA: It's Carla.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: It's Carla.
- Yep, yep, yep.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yep, yep, yep.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Big girl.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- That's right (laughter).
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Unfortunately, when
- you say that, I get this vision of the bruiser.
- And Carla--
- VICKIE FUMIA: Was not a bruiser.
- EVELYN BAILEY: No, she was like, what, 5' 4".
- KEVIN INDOVINO: She was about my height, about 5' 6", 5' 7".
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Oh, all right.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I seem to remember.
- Either that, or she was wearing combat boots
- that made her a little taller.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Maybe.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And to be real honest,
- she was the nicest thing.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Right, exactly.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: But I'm sure--
- yeah, she would have stiff armed anybody out of there--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yep.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: God, I'm glad we found that name.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: That would have bothered me terribly.
- VICKIE FUMIA: I know.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, were the two of you born in Rochester?
- VICKIE FUMIA: I was.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Only one of us has that distinction.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And you are--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: I'm from New York City, the Bronx, Pelham Bay.
- Any further and you get into farmland down there.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- When did you come to Rochester?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Oh, at twenty-one
- VICKIE FUMIA: When you were young.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: twenty.
- EVELYN BAILEY: When you were twenty.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah, well, I left New York
- because it was seven million people.
- And there were too many.
- So I went from New York to--
- I went-- I have always done extremes--
- I went to Kingston, New York, where there were 600 people.
- Unfortunately, I moved in the fall.
- And by the end of the winter, I knew all 600 people.
- And I said, OK, it's too small.
- I have to move.
- And then Woodstock happened same summer.
- And I went, oh, my god, they're following me.
- So I took off and came up here to Rochester.
- And I met you within eight months of moving here.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What year would this be, '70--
- VICKIE FUMIA: What was it?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: '69, '70?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: When was Woodstock?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: '71?
- '71.
- VICKIE FUMIA: '71 was it?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: I think. '71-- '72 maybe, by the time
- I met you.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Could be.
- I don't know.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Oh, thank god.
- It's you.
- (ringtone playing)
- I hear these tunes, and I just--
- I think I'm hearing things.
- I'm of that age where you kind of look around and--
- a few other things that annoys me is when I go to a deli
- counter, and somebody will suddenly say something to me.
- And I look at them and think, they're talking on the phone.
- Oh no, they're not.
- And I'll answer them.
- And of course, they are talking on the phone.
- So I feel utterly stupid.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Right, right.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And they get me annoyed enough, I finally turn
- around and just go, no, no, no.
- No, no.
- I'll be home in a half hour.
- What else do we need?
- All right, I'll be there next.
- Yeah, I'll call you back.
- Then I hit my head.
- And they're, eggplant.
- And I'll order what I need, and then I'll leave.
- And I'm sure people have called there,
- (whispering) I want the eggplant.
- (laughter)
- EVELYN BAILEY: Oh.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So you were born in Rochester.
- Whereabouts?
- VICKIE FUMIA: In hospital.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Where did you grow up, right in Rochester?
- VICKIE FUMIA: In Irondequoit.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Irondequoit, OK.
- So before we get to Rosie's, I want
- to kind of get a sense of--
- VICKIE FUMIA: OK.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: --what Rochester's lesbian
- and gay community was like before Rosie's ever came about.
- You know, something-- I mean, how far back do you
- remember as far as your involvement
- in getting into the gay community in Rochester?
- VICKIE FUMIA: You, know there was never
- an object or a whatever, you know?
- I went to private schools.
- And then we moved to Ambassador Drive.
- And then I went to college.
- And I never paid too much attention to it.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Mm-hm.
- VICKIE FUMIA: I knew there were gay people and straight people.
- And it didn't matter to me.
- And then I met Maureen because her partner was looking
- for a house in Rochester.
- My mother was a realtor, a real estate broker.
- And she sold them a house over on Front Street.
- And then one time, I'm in the home,
- and I said, oh, she's an attractive woman.
- And I said, what's the matter with you?
- So before that, it never-- you know, if you're gay, fine.
- If you're straight, fine.
- If you're-- whatever.
- But I never paid any attention to it.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: We should preface this with the fact
- that Vickie owned a Corvette.
- So according to my set of preambles here, Vickie was gay.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Because she owned a Corvette?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Oh, that, and the way she walked,
- and what she wore.
- I assumed.
- (whispering) You should never assume.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No, you never should.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah, it was in '65, I bought the Corvette.
- Because I always wanted one, and my father wouldn't buy me one.
- I was really pissed off about that.
- He bought me a car.
- It was an awful car, oh!
- It was a Chevy.
- It was, you know, just wasn't what I wanted.
- I wanted the Corvette.
- So I said, I'll buy it myself.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So up until about 1972,
- when you met Maureen, you really weren't very much involved
- with the gay community in Rochester.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- So let's take it from--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Neither of us were.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Well--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: The two of you meeting then?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Was there anything in your environment
- that was negative toward the gay community?
- Anybody say anything about--
- VICKIE FUMIA: Never came up, no.
- No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Because that's what we were hearing.
- VICKIE FUMIA: You know--
- well, my parents entertained a lot.
- And they were part of the medical/dental community.
- And my uncle was OB/GYN to deliver babies.
- And there was never any--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
- VICKIE FUMIA: --you know?
- No, there was no plus, or minus, or anything.
- But then my mother was a little shocked
- when your friend, your ex-friend,
- told her that we were queer, or gay, or something.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Talk to me about that.
- When was that?
- Talk to me about that experience.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So was Maureen your first?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- VICKIE FUMIA: And we've been friends ever since.
- Strange.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Incredible.
- My biggest worry was that I'd run out of conversation.
- Obviously, I haven't.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No, thank goodness.
- Well, my mother was a little horrified, you know?
- And it was OK if you were gay, but not in her family.
- So we kind of stayed out of the--
- out of her view.
- And-- oh, no, is that when she got mad at me and told me
- I had to move?
- Maybe that was.
- And so I got an apartment on Elmwood Avenue.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: No, you were already in the apartment.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Was I?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, OK.
- She must have gotten mad at me for something else.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: She always did.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- But it wasn't--
- I don't even remember what she said.
- Are you queer?
- Or something like that.
- I said, no, of course not.
- I mean, what else would you say, yes?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No.
- No, no, no, no, no.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: We owned a gay bar.
- And according to my parents, I mean,
- I always used T and G when I was talking about the bar.
- Did they know I was gay?
- Yes.
- Did we discuss it openly?
- VICKIE FUMIA: No.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
- And it was like an unspoken language.
- When my parents came up, we had the bar.
- And I had looked at everybody in the bar,
- and I said, now, listen to me.
- My parents are coming in.
- Boy girl, boy girl.
- I do not want to see two girls together, two guys together.
- Do you understand me?
- And they were like [silent] I said, I'm serious.
- I'll bar you here from life.
- And you know we have memories like elephants.
- And they were like, OK.
- And I swear to God, I have never seen so many people
- jumping stools from each other as when my parents came in.
- And the bartender was trying to be nice.
- And my mother was drinking a Coke.
- And he'd keep grabbing the glass to put more Coke in it.
- And my mother would bring it back to her.
- And I'd go, Mom, he's not going to take your glass.
- He just wants to fill it some more.
- She goes, I'm fine.
- I really am.
- I'm fine.
- And then my father went through the bar, and he came out.
- And I looked at him and I said, so what do you think?
- He nodded, and he looked at me.
- He said, I'm impressed.
- And I went, and you waited for the but?
- And he walked outside.
- I looked at my mother and said, he's impressed, but what?
- My mother said, he said he was impressed.
- I said, I heard that.
- But where's the but?
- And she looked at me.
- And she said, there is no but.
- And I went, oh!
- Oh!
- OK!
- VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, god.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Let's just jump back a little bit though.
- When did you first discover the gay community in Rochester,
- where you decided, OK, we need to get involved.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: I'll open a bar.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Well, you see--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Because my guess is that you didn't
- open this bar right away.
- You had to get to know the community a little bit.
- VICKIE FUMIA: I own the building.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- VICKIE FUMIA: I get to know the community.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Really?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Kind of.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Wait.
- We owned an antique shop, so we met
- a few gay people along the way.
- And you meet gay people by, kind of, that look.
- No one ever says anything until you finally break down,
- and you go, yeah, we can be friends.
- The people next to us, Laurie and Penny.
- They were gay.
- We knew them.
- Laurie and Penny would go out to the bars. (whispering) God
- forbid we did.
- Vickie was a teacher.
- And we had each other.
- And it wasn't like we needed to go out and dance.
- Well, Vickie doesn't dance.
- And with the antique shop, we worked it
- like eighteen hours a day.
- So we really didn't have a social life.
- And it was on Monroe Avenue.
- So we saw a whole lot of--
- well, life.
- I mean, it was Monroe Avenue.
- It was the closest you can get to New York City up here.
- Then Vickie bought the building on Monroe Avenue.
- And Friar's was across the street.
- Vickie would sit in our little antique shop
- with her face pasted against that door going,
- do you see all the people in there?
- And then we started going even more.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, so let me-- just back up here.
- So before it was Rosie's, it was an antique shop.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Well, yeah.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- Yeah, it was.
- I bought the building.
- And we put the antique shop in there.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, what year did we start the antique shop?
- VICKIE FUMIA: OK, the antique shop, we had had for a long--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Long time.
- See, we're not good with the dates either.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Dates, I'm terrible with.
- But we had had it for, I don't know,
- a few years, the antique shop.
- And so yeah, I got this building.
- We might as well use the space.
- We'll put the antique shop in there.
- And then we decided--
- I decided-- that there were other ways
- to make money besides an antique shop.
- And Maureen, you sit here shaking your head?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: When she had this brilliant idea,
- we were sitting at Friar's at the time.
- Vickie knew Renee, started to know Renee.
- Vickie leaned over and said, do you
- see the money going over that bar?
- Dollar bills hand over fist going across that bar.
- We could do this.
- And I went, (whispering) we know nothing about the bar business.
- You'll lose your shirt.
- And she went, (whispering) we didn't know anything
- about the antique business.
- And I went, (whispering) you knew antiques.
- Huge difference.
- So after this quiet conversation,
- it just formulated in Vickie's brain
- until she couldn't stand it And she kept saying,
- (whispering) bright lights.
- Money, bright lights.
- And I kept saying, you don't understand.
- It's going to be a lot, a lot, of work.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- Well--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And Vickie went, (whispering) bright lights.
- (laughter)
- VICKIE FUMIA: Those will get you any time, every time.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: You know, she is a wonderful DJ.
- She has a wonderful sense of rhythm.
- She can't dance to save her life.
- But her rhythm, and the way she would mix music--
- and the lights would be going.
- Vickie had a wonderful time.
- She loved her lights.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yes, I did.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Did we make money hand over fist?
- VICKIE FUMIA: No.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Did we work hard?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yes, we did.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Was it good for any of my relationships?
- Why?
- Because I owned the candy shop.
- And I could have any piece of candy I wanted.
- And I went, huh?
- Are you kidding me?
- In order to designate people, you
- would designate them by what they drank.
- And I once was going out with--
- or I was just starting to go out with-- this girl
- by the name of Susan.
- Well, unfortunately she drank the same thing as another Susan
- who I knew.
- So we couldn't distinguish them by what they drank.
- But we could by age.
- She was twenty-nine.
- So we called Susan, who's twenty-nine.
- Susan twenty-nine.
- Susan twenty-nine assumed I had had twenty-nine Susans.
- And I went, oh, my god!
- And you still went home with me?
- And she went, yeah.
- And I went, oh, dear god, I wouldn't
- have touched with a bowl if you had twenty-nine.
- And then I stopped.
- I went, you haven't, have you?
- You know it's moot at that point.
- Well, deed's done. (laughter)
- So to be real honest, we really didn't know the gay community
- until Vickie wanted to open a bar.
- And we should have known on Vickie's 40th--
- you had just turned forty when you opened the bar.
- Vickie's 40th birthday happened.
- I decided to give her a party.
- Took her out for dinner.
- Brought her back to the bar.
- I said, look, we're going to open in a few days.
- Let's just go in.
- The boys were on one side.
- The girls were on another.
- These are people who had known each other for at least as long
- as we've known them, for at least Ten years.
- I went in there, and I went, [silence]
- And they all soon yelled, happy birthday.
- But it was like, well, I want the girls singing it first
- to the boys.
- I was like, you know each other.
- Why are we in groups here?
- And that's, honestly, how the bar was.
- When we opened the bar, we opened a gay bar.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yes, we did.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And we meant it for men and women.
- VICKIE FUMIA: It wasn't for women or men.
- It was for both.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Right.
- VICKIE FUMIA: We thought it was time that they got together.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: You need both sides
- of any coin for a logical view of anything.
- And to be real honest, at last call,
- he still doesn't want to go home with me.
- He will go home with somebody ugly, but not me.
- And I look at the girls and go, why?
- why?
- Not for nothing, but why?
- This is our bar.
- And I'd go, well, to be real honest,
- it's Vickie's and my bar.
- So I like the guys.
- They're allowed to come in.
- And most of them are my friends.
- So be nice to them, or I'll throw you out!
- VICKIE FUMIA: Because we need many more guys than women.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah, we did.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Why did you name it Rosie's?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: That was Vickie's.
- It wasn't just Rosie's.
- Ask her the full name.
- VICKIE FUMIA: The legal name was Rosie's Truck Stop Baths Bar
- and Disco.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Inc.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Incorporated. (laughter)
- Rosie's Truck Stop Baths Bar and Disco, Incorporated.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And I looked at her, and I said, what?
- And she went, we might expand.
- And I went, oh, OK.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: You were thinking ahead.
- VICKIE FUMIA: I certainly was.
- I liked the name.(laughter)
- MAUREEN BOYLE: You remember the iconic stained glass window?
- And maybe you didn't.
- But there was a stained glass window
- in there dedicated to two brothers.
- We got it out of the Presbyterian church
- on East Avenue.
- And the reason it's--
- VICKIE FUMIA: Down here by--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: --was because Tiffany
- made some of the windows.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Smile, or--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: I looked over that window.
- VICKIE FUMIA: --union?
- Union.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Union.
- Anyway, when they found out--
- the neighborhood found out-- that we were opening a gay
- bar--
- and how they did, I have no idea,
- it's not like we said gay bar opening--
- but they decided we were opening a gay bar.
- They made life (whispering) a little bit miserable.
- And the parishioners would come walking in front of us saying,
- you know it's blasphemous that you're using that window.
- And they'd scream, and they'd yell,
- and they'd carry on like trash.
- Finally, I got tired of it.
- And I walked out there, and I said, excuse me.
- I bought that window.
- Now, if it hadn't been unholy-ized by you guys,
- we wouldn't have been able to buy it.
- But we did buy it.
- And if you don't stop yelling about this,
- I will have our cancelled check published.
- And on the cancelled check, it says Rosie's Truck Stop Baths
- Bar and Disco, Inc. on the top of the check.
- And your minister accepted it.
- So if you don't want to see that in the paper--
- and I will buy it as an advertisement,
- I think 1/8 of a page would be perfect--
- I suggest you stop coming by here yelling.
- And I walked back into the bar.
- Vickie looked at me, and she says, oh, my god,
- I can't believe you did that.
- And I said, well, I got tired of them.
- Well, don't laugh. (laughter) She rented to AA.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah, I did.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
- Vickie thought it was funny. (laughter)
- VICKIE FUMIA: I get tired of people getting drunk.
- They're supposed to come and have a good time.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: She would send me over to people.
- Tell Calvin he's drinking too much.
- What?
- We own a bar.
- VICKIE FUMIA: I had an empty shop.
- And I rented to AA.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And then they started marching.
- VICKIE FUMIA: And then I'd send them there.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: They were marching in front of my corner.
- I went out.
- And I said, excuse me, I don't think
- you're allowed to march here.
- VICKIE FUMIA: I did a lot of public service.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And Vickie looked at me--
- the guy looked at me.
- He said, I rent here.
- And I went, what?
- I said, I don't think so.
- He goes, oh, yes.
- I rent that third shop.
- I went, OK, parade down there.
- You cannot parade on my corner.
- Parade down there.
- So I got on the phone.
- I said, did you rent to AA?
- And she went, oh, yeah.
- I forgot to tell you.
- I-- thanks, and I slammed down the phone.
- I said, I can't believe she did that. (laughter)
- VICKIE FUMIA: Well, you know, they
- have to have someplace to go too.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Equal opportunity.
- VICKIE FUMIA: That's right.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Then, because she's
- on the downtown beautification committee-- god
- knows how you got on that.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, it was the--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: I thought it was broads ware, square, actually,
- when we were involved in that.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No, it was--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Anyway, for five years,
- Vickie would get the citizen--
- the citizen of Rochester award.
- It would come.
- And she'd show it to me.
- And I go, son of a bitch.
- Why the hell do you get that?
- She goes, because I keep people off the streets.
- VICKIE FUMIA: That wasn't why I got it.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: But you said that's why you got it.
- That was enough. (laughter) It wasn't funny.
- Life was miserable for me. (laughter)
- And then when one of us would go away
- for vacation, usually when I'd go away for vacation,
- I would leave Vickie.
- Our employees would always be very unhappy.
- They'd go, she didn't smile for two weeks.
- I said, well, none of you, obviously, entertained her.
- (whispering) I'm saying, not for two weeks.
- We thought we were all going to get fired.
- Oh, good.
- Did we make any money?
- Whatever she didn't steal.
- I'd go, really?
- OK.
- Well, aren't you going to do anything about it?
- I said, yeah.
- I'm going to wait till she goes on vacation and steal it back.
- That's a good idea.
- I thought so.
- Plus we make more money when I'm here.
- And I'd look at Vickie, and I go,
- they honest to God believe you don't?
- VICKIE FUMIA: They'd tell me that you were stealing.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
- That we don't talk to each other?
- I'm thinking, no, obviously not.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What year did Rosie's open up?
- VICKIE FUMIA: OK, let me think.
- It had to be--
- it was open for--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Twelve years.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Twelve years.
- And we closed in, what '90--
- let's see.
- 19--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: OK, we opened in--
- How old are you?
- Go back that way.
- Because with forty--
- VICKIE FUMIA: seventy-three.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: You're seventy-three.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: All right, seventy-three, forty.
- Thirty-three years ago, we opened.
- Thirty-three years ago makes it '79.
- VICKIE FUMIA: That's right, '79.
- '79.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Because the first time
- I saw an ad for Rosie's, in the Empty Closet, was--
- I think I wrote you an email.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, you said '79.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: August.
- July, August of 1979.
- Because we were trying to open up that summer,
- and we couldn't because of something or other.
- Oh, our entertainment license.
- That was another thing.
- We were almost thrown out of business there.
- We don't have me deal with government and people.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No, no, no.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: I upset them.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So did you close it in what, '91?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah, I think.
- Yeah.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So you touched upon this a little bit
- when you first opened up, and the kind of crowd
- you were getting.
- How did that--
- VICKIE FUMIA: Change?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, how did your clientele change,
- and how quickly did it change?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: It became non-existent
- in our second month.
- We fired Renee.
- Well--
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And then the bartenders--
- are we allowed to say this, considering Jesse won't
- be able to be interviewed?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Jesse--
- VICKIE FUMIA: Bulo.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Bulo.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: OK.
- End it up this way.
- Jesse had priors.
- And Jesse's bartender, whether or not
- Jesse said, yes, do this or not, we have no idea.
- And nor do we think he would have.
- But the bartenders would ask the guys,
- where are you going there?
- And everybody goes to a new gay bar to see all new faces.
- They don't realize that everybody
- who's been in some of those bars is going over here.
- They're the same faces.
- Anyway, all new faces, supposedly, at the new bar.
- Well, after the first month, you realize there are no new faces.
- We go back to where we're comfortable.
- And when they didn't come back fast enough,
- the bartenders would say it's a girl's bar to the guys.
- And when the girls would come in, they'd go,
- it's a guy's bar.
- Why are you going over there?
- So they were telling both sexes, whichever bar they weren't, it
- was the opposite.
- So we had nobody.
- And unfortunately, a lot of the bartenders we didn't hire
- get a little obnoxious.
- One of them, unfortunately, made Vickie cry.
- Not a good thing to do.
- I got very angry.
- So I went across to Friar's to confront the bartender.
- Unfortunately, I got to confront Renee, which I didn't think
- was a bad idea either.
- Vickie was running after me and just couldn't grab me.
- She was just a hair slips too short.
- And I had fire in my eyes.
- I was going to kill--
- well, it was a guy, a black haired guy.
- What was his name?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Not Buddy.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: No, he was Renee's cousin.
- And we fired him too.
- Anyway, I was chasing him.
- And--
- VICKIE FUMIA: Not Tony Green.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: No, no, no, no.
- Tony never came to the full bartender job with us.
- Anyway, I think we were the only people who
- ever had him as a bartender.
- He was a slob, just a slob.
- He was a real bad drunk.
- Anyway, I went chasing him, didn't find him.
- Found Renee instead.
- Thought well, what the hell.
- I'll kill her.
- She stole $5,000 from me.
- I want to kill her.
- So I went lunging towards Renee, and--
- well, Jesse was always in the way.
- And some way or another, he grabbed a hold of Vickie
- and put Vickie in front of him and sidestepped both of us.
- So Rene was totally exposed.
- I went for Renee.
- She threw the girlfriend at me.
- So I ended up catching the girlfriend.
- Never got Renee.
- I just put the girlfriend up, looked and realized
- Jesse was holding Vickie.
- I grabbed a hold of Vickie, pushed Vickie behind me.
- I looked at her, and I said, we're going to stay.
- We'll still be across the street when you're dead and buried.
- And stormed out of there.
- Wonderful last words.
- And for the next two years, we sat there
- looking at each other, almost.
- I think it was at least a year.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No, it wasn't that long.
- It wasn't that long.
- And we said, well, we'll have to have--
- you know, if the guys aren't coming,
- then the girls will have to come.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Well, nobody was coming there for a while.
- VICKIE FUMIA: I know.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Then the girls started trickling in.
- VICKIE FUMIA: They started coming.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Then we did juice bar.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yes, we did.
- We did juice bar.
- And every place else was closed.
- So they'd come over to our place.
- And then they started coming in--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: For last call.
- VICKIE FUMIA: And they'd come in afternoons.
- Because we were open from, what, 2:00?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
- VICKIE FUMIA: 2:00 on.
- And they just kept coming.
- And then it was predominantly women that came in.
- And that was fine.
- They were still drinking.
- Yeah.
- And the juice bar was fun.
- It really was.
- You'd have the police there to begin with,
- checking to make sure it was juice and not something else.
- But they went away.
- And we went ahead with it, and we stayed in business
- for a long time.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Until it stopped being fun.
- VICKIE FUMIA: And then I said to Maureen, you know,
- it's not fun anymore.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: It wasn't fun for over a year.
- At which point, I called Vickie, and I said, you're right.
- It's not fun.
- Well, actually. what happened was
- that I was sitting talking to someone,
- and I said something about do you
- remember where you were when President Kennedy got shot?
- And unfortunately, somebody who was like all of ten
- was standing between us and said, oh, you were alive then?
- And I looked at her.
- And I went, yes.
- And she floated away very quickly.
- And I turned around, and I said, Jesus, I suddenly
- feel like I was alive for Abraham Lincoln's shot.
- And the girl looked at me and said, don't be silly,
- you look fine.
- And I was like, that doesn't sound good either.
- Then I started thinking about it.
- And I said, no, I really--
- I've now become a legend in my own time.
- Time to move on.
- Called Vickie up, and I said, it is no longer fun.
- It hasn't been fun in years.
- I said, they don't even have a fight anymore.
- I haven't had a bad fight before.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Of course, they wouldn't have a fight.
- Because as soon as they had a fight, we'd called the police.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Well, that, and the fact
- that we barred them for life.
- And no one got back in.
- VICKIE FUMIA: So why are you going
- to bother to fight there if you're never
- going to come back?
- Hell, we had the best lights, and we had the best music.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Pretty good DJs.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- Yeah, it was fun.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And to be real honest, it really was fun.
- VICKIE FUMIA: It was fun for a long time.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
- We used to decorate wonderfully.
- We were discussing that earlier.
- We had decorated once, and we had decorated up our cast iron
- pipes in the middle of the bar with ferns--
- the poles-- with ferns.
- And Gary had wired the little lights.
- Well, we also had a little fire with 400 people there.
- And I couldn't get out from behind the bar.
- So I was going over the top.
- And I'm going to lunge for the pipe
- and just drag it down to the ground.
- And Vickie walks over, pushes her way through the crowd,
- pulls the thing down and stomps on it.
- I was like, good one. (unintelligible) (laughter)
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you think, somewhere within this twelve
- years of operating this business,
- do you think you carved out some sort of particular need
- for the gay community?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I mean, do you think
- you made a significant contribution
- for this community?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Absolutely.
- They had a nice place to go.
- We had a nice place to go.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: They got good liquor.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yep.
- We didn't water anything down.
- And you knew that you weren't going to have a lot of trouble
- there because we jumped on trouble right away.
- That was it.
- And if we had to go down to the public whatever--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Court.
- VICKIE FUMIA: --where the polices are,
- we'd go at night when we closed up.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: We'd show up.
- Cops used to love to come to work
- with us because they knew we'd be there at court the next day.
- And they would get something on their collar or whatever,
- and it would go through.
- VICKIE FUMIA: So we stopped trouble pretty much early on.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And I think the cops, in general,
- started to view gay people with more of a better attitude.
- One of the cops, he was just making our lives a living hell.
- And he would ticket on--
- what's this street back here, Broadway?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Marshall.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Marshall.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Marshall?
- No, Marshall was on the side.
- What's the street--
- Griffith.
- Griffith Street.
- And he would ticket us, which meant
- he had to drive down Marshall Street in order to ticket us.
- And everything on Marshall Street wasn't ticketed.
- It's in the runner.
- I said, go touch those goddamn cars.
- Go touch the hoods.
- What?
- I said, go touch the hoods.
- Come back and tell me.
- And he's writing up the tickets as fast as he could.
- And I said, all right, in front of the fire hydrant,
- was there a car?
- He said, yeah.
- I said, how is the hood?
- He said, kind of cool.
- And I went, good.
- I looked at the cop, and I said, all right,
- when you're done here, I want you to walk around the corner.
- Or better still, drive around the corner,
- and I want you to ticket them.
- What for?
- I said, there is a car illegally parked in front of the hydrant.
- And unless he happened to pull up from next door,
- his hood should be hot.
- And it's cold.
- My bouncer-- my-- whatever-- what
- do we call the guy who collected the bottles?
- Whatever he was, he had to go run around the corner.
- So the cop walked over there, and he
- started writing the ticket.
- And of course, the whole bar emptied out,
- ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba.
- They were all yelling and screaming.
- And the cop turned around, and he
- said, if you want to yell and scream, scream at her.
- She's the one that's making me do it.
- And I looked at them, and I said, yes, I am.
- And I happen to own Rosie's.
- And to be real honest, my people are
- real tired of getting tickets when you guys don't get any.
- Well, (mimicking)
- Then I looked at the cop.
- I said, I hope you're real happy, because if one of them
- swings at me, I'm not raising a hand.
- And not only will I sue them, I'll
- sue you for inciting this riot.
- The cop said, all right, all right.
- Now all of you just calm down.
- And I thought, oh, good.
- And I walked back to Rosie's.
- He happened to have the afternoon shift.
- Ha!
- And cops are strange.
- They, honest to God, believe that, with this uniform,
- I have command.
- You will do what I say.
- Well, most people do.
- But when there are two guys beating on one guy,
- they're not going to pay a bit of attention to you.
- Cop pulled over.
- I said, stop that.
- He must've thought they came out of my bar.
- Luckily, they had come from the apartment
- house across the street.
- Wheeling on this guy, they didn't break it up.
- And he walked over--
- and he was only like maybe 5' 10"--
- pulled one of them away, and the other guy cold cocked him.
- He went down.
- Then they started kicking him.
- Well, the girls in the bar were watching this.
- One of them called 911.
- The other one went running outside--
- whose uncle happened to be a police
- officer in one of the towns--
- grabbed his thing, and yelled into it,
- officer down, officer down, and then dropped the mic.
- And I think she had the billy club, so she wailed
- on one of the other guys.
- And then all these cop cars showed up.
- The cop had to be taken off in an ambulance.
- That's how bad he was.
- And he came back about a week and a half later.
- I happened to be in the bar.
- I walked outside, and I looked.
- And he was kind of looking in the door.
- And I said, you can come in, we don't bite.
- He said, oh, I know that.
- But I'm looking for someone.
- And I said, who?
- He said, I don't know her name.
- I said, well, that's helpful.
- Can you describe her?
- He goes, not really.
- I said, well, then who is it?
- He said, well, she came running out.
- And if it hadn't been for her, I'd
- probably be really seriously injured.
- I said, oh, wait a second.
- My bartender happens to know who that is.
- I'll ask her to tell you who it is.
- And he got the name, and sure enough,
- left her a little note thanking her.
- He said, you know, just if you have any trouble,
- you let me know.
- And I looked at him, and I said, that's a little change
- in attitude.
- And he said, hey, if they hadn't come out and helped me.
- And I said, well, you know, I hate to point this out to you,
- but all of these people are somebody's sister, somebody's
- aunt, and could be somebody's mother, you know?
- You don't know who you're dealing with.
- They're just people.
- And to be real honest, I think the cops eventually
- got that idea, if, for no other reason,
- than the fact that for twelve years,
- they didn't have a lot of hassle from us.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No, they didn't.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Before it got to the point
- where it wasn't fun anymore--
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: --what was the most fun about running that bar
- and about having that kind of clientele?
- VICKIE FUMIA: The music, the lights.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What were you seeing happening in the bar,
- other than women hooking up with women?
- I'm trying to get a little beyond that.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Well, it was a place-- you know,
- afternoons we had a totally different clientele
- than we did in the evenings.
- And, actually, the serious drinkers
- were in the afternoons, and that's
- why I'd have to rent to AA. (laughter)
- I was trying to save them. (laughter)
- MAUREEN BOYLE: She prayed for them.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Cool, don't open the bar until 6:00 at night.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Right.
- Right
- MAUREEN BOYLE: When we first moved into the neighborhood,
- the busiest bar opened at 7:00 AM in the morning.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Oh, my god.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And he was across the street,
- where the Vietnamese moved in.
- And he closed by 4:00.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yep, he did.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And all the rentees and retirees
- would stumble to the bar, and he'd get their check.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- But it was a nice bar.
- It looked good.
- It wasn't shabby.
- Things weren't falling apart.
- We made sure that everything was always fixed.
- And if something happened, we'd take care of that.
- And people didn't have to be afraid to go there.
- You could park your car and walk into the bar
- without a big deal.
- And that was basically it.
- It was a nice place to go.
- And you see, when we said we were opening up a bar,
- the other bar owners laughed at us.
- They had a wonderful time laughing at us, saying,
- you don't know anything about the bar business.
- You don't even drink.
- What are you going to do opening up a bar?
- We said, well, you know, we'll wait and see.
- That's what we're going to do.
- And so we did.
- We opened up a bar, and it was a nice bar.
- I'd go to New York maybe four times
- a year to get all the latest music.
- And our DJs were good.
- We'd change the lights periodically.
- And it was fun.
- It was fun to go there.
- And that's basically why.
- But you know what?
- After twelve years, it gets tired.
- I got tired, anyway.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So just kind of a related question
- to what I just asked you for someone
- who may have been at your bar in the twelve year period,
- at this point.
- A few years from now, if I were to ask that person, oh,
- tell me about Rosie's.
- What would you want that person, that clientele,
- to say about your bar?
- VICKIE FUMIA: I don't know.
- Now, what people generally say is Rosie's, we
- had the best time there.
- I guess something like that.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Are you going to open up again?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah, no.
- Uh-uh.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Once was enough.
- Thanks.
- And people ask, (whispering) don't you miss it?
- And periodically, I miss dancing.
- Other than that, no.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No.
- It was a lot of work, a lot of work.
- You have to check the liquor.
- You have to check the glasses.
- You have to check this, that, and the other thing.
- Make sure the ice machine is working.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, let me ask you this.
- In today's society, do you think there's a need
- for Rosie's, a bar like Rosie's?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Sure.
- I think there is.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Do you agree with that, Maureen?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: (pause) I guess so.
- It really was.
- It was kind of like a private club.
- We had the deep mahogany.
- You could sit there and feel comfortable without really
- having to get plastered.
- Nobody really forced you to drink anything.
- 99 percent of the time, I was on Coca-Cola.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So yeah.
- I want to kind of follow up on that.
- You kind of touched upon it.
- But I want to get your opinion on it.
- I'm going to ask it this way.
- What made Rosie's special?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: The fact that we didn't have
- any mirrors on our dance floor.
- Really.
- I cannot tell you how often I have danced and thought I was
- dancing with someone to find them dancing with their mirror
- image.
- And Rosie's didn't have any mirrors.
- We honestly didn't have-- well, we had the mirrored windows.
- They were so far away from the dance floor that--
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah, but that was just
- because of the stuff on them, so that they
- didn't break too easily.
- Yeah.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: But we didn't have
- any mirrors on the dance floor.
- We had a couple of-- well, I'm not even sure if people even
- realized that--
- the crocks that lined the back bar.
- There were a couple of thousand dollars' worth of crocks up
- there.
- And probably the most fun I had was when somebody would tell me
- they owned the bar.
- And I'd come in, and I'd look at the bartender.
- And the bartender would go, (mumbling)
- like signaling that (whispering) they're telling everybody
- they're buying the drinks.
- And I'd go, oh, OK.
- Who cares?
- And then I'd look at the guy and go, really?
- I was under the impression two women owned this.
- Oh, yeah, they did.
- I bought them out.
- Really?
- For a lot of money?
- Or, do you mind me asking this?
- Did you have to pay a lot?
- I mean, Look at the walnut on the walls.
- And, are you going to put mirrors on the dance floor?
- Yeah, of course.
- People need mirrors.
- And I'd go, oh, good.
- Oh, those crocks must have set you back.
- So how much did you have to pay for the bar?
- Well, look, let me buy you a drink.
- And I'd look at the bartender and tell them what I'd want.
- I'd say, no, no, no.
- You're the owner.
- You shouldn't have to pay for that.
- And he'd look at the bartender, and he'd go, (silence).
- And I'd look at the bartender and say,
- the owner is saying that you really
- shouldn't have to pay for that.
- And then he'd go, well, I'd like another one.
- And then he'd go to push his money forward.
- And I'd go, no, the owner said he
- doesn't have to pay for that.
- And he'd look at me and go, (silence).
- And he'd look at the bartender.
- And I'd say, maybe you should tell him who I am.
- And the bartender would go, this is the owner.
- And I'd go, so do you still want that drink?
- Well, I'll see you later.
- Good idea.
- And he'd leave.
- And sometimes it would go on for a while.
- And sometimes it would just be, oh, please.
- I have other things to do today.
- But truthfully, just that they had a really good time there.
- And it was safe.
- I think everybody who went in there felt safe.
- And as I said, we used to hire bouncers.
- Not because of how good they could fight,
- but because they were 6' 5", and they never
- had to fight, or 6' 3".
- First time I hired Al, this street couple
- would come in from the Glass Onion.
- And this six foot guy-- had to be 6' 6"
- because even I had to look up at him--
- and he had this midget of a girlfriend.
- She must have been only five feet tall.
- And she was poking him and making this huge noise.
- And I'm like, wow, all that noise coming out
- of that little bitch.
- Get her out of here.
- What should I do?
- I said, I don't know.
- You're the bouncer.
- Get her out of here.
- And he doubled over.
- And he said, would you mind leaving?
- And she said, yes, and continued to harangue this poor guy.
- And finally-- must be mine.
- And finally, Al leaned over, grabbed her leg,
- grabbed her underneath the armpit,
- lifted her over his head, and walked out the door.
- He then put her down.
- She was so shocked, she was speechless.
- And he came back in.
- I closed the door and locked it really fast.
- I looked at him.
- I said, I don't care how much you paid her,
- but you don't have to worry about having a fight
- here ever, ever again.
- And he looked at me, and he said, why not?
- I said, there isn't a girl in here
- who wants to be carried out like that (laughter).
- And that's what made it fun, truly.
- It was never, ooh, look how many people are here.
- It was never the crowd or how much money we made.
- It's rich it survived.
- There was one day when no one showed up.
- I mean, no one showed up.
- Me and the barback.
- And the
- Barback didn't know much.
- He had steel toed boots.
- And he proceeded to break our gallon wine
- thingies on the floor.
- So I was slugging through wine, and had for over 400 people.
- No one was there.
- Vickie kind of waltzed in at 11 o'clock.
- I was making customers bring back glasses.
- I would hand the ice thingy to other customers and say,
- I'll give you a beer.
- Get me ice.
- Just throwing beers out there.
- The barback, I made him a bartender instantaneously.
- I said, sell them beer.
- Everything's one dollar and a quarter.
- Just hit one dollar and a quarter.
- I did the mixed drinks.
- Vickie came walking in and said, why didn't you call?
- I went (laughing).
- She goes, oh, I'll go get glasses.
- I grabbed a hold of the back of her.
- I said, sell drinks!
- I sent the barback out to grab glasses.
- I should have sent Vickie out.
- It would have been faster.
- But at any rate, it was one of those nights we survived.
- But again, you sit down, and you go,
- I don't know how we got through that!
- And Vickie goes, you just should have called.
- And I'm like, number one, you can never--
- the DJ had shown up, but she refused
- to put anything on tape.
- So I was like, bartenders, this is where we
- make the money, not out there.
- Nobody cared.
- Nobody cared. (laughter)
- VICKIE FUMIA: It was fun.
- It was fun.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So what are you guys doing now?
- VICKIE FUMIA: She's a massage therapist.
- And I'm a bum. (laughter)
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you still own the building?
- Do you still rent it?
- No, you sold it.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No, I sold it to the people
- that owned the Bug Jar.
- And I don't know if they sold it, or they still own it,
- or what.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Let me ask you.
- What happened to the bar when AIDS hit Rochester?
- I mean, 1984, '85.
- VICKIE FUMIA: We lost a lot of friends.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
- VICKIE FUMIA: A lot of friends.
- But by then, our clientele was basically full.
- So it didn't impact our business as such.
- But everyone that came in there was losing a friend, or two,
- or three, or four.
- It was an awful time.
- It was a devastating time for everybody.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: It was like a major epidemic.
- The first one to go, I think, was Jesse, wasn't it?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Was it Jesse?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: His was the first funeral I remember going to.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yep.
- And then it was just--
- I mean, you could count the--
- every day, you'd hear about somebody else.
- It wasn't good.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did you ever think
- about becoming more active, in terms of really doing something
- with the bar or with the people in the bar,
- to protest, to try to bring more attention to the epidemic,
- or to the disease, so that the money would begin to come
- through the pipeline for AIDS patients,
- or for research, or for whatever?
- VICKIE FUMIA: No, not really.
- It was still that time, you know.
- Well, we closed at the beginning of the '90s.
- And before that--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: It was just a gay epidemic.
- And there was no funding, really.
- VICKIE FUMIA: No, and we didn't seek to--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Even start something like that.
- VICKIE FUMIA: --to start something
- like that, which we should have done.
- But we didn't.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: You know, the thing, too,
- to remember is that it was also during the time of Ryan
- as the police chief.
- And there was better communication
- between us and the cops.
- Wasn't it Ryan?
- Whoever was the police chief at the time--
- VICKIE FUMIA: I don't remember who it was.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: --had better communicate-- well,
- that was the only authority I ever
- got to talk to with the cops.
- They liked me.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: It wasn't Urlacher, was it?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Gordon was the first police liaison
- with the gay community, but that was in
- the '70s, late '70s, early '80s.
- This would have been much later.
- And I don't know--
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And I don't remember, truthfully.
- But I do remember going up and meeting--
- because I was always bad with names--
- meeting with him and discussing what was going on,
- and how the cops had improved.
- Did I see any difference, da, da, da, da, da da.
- And for a while--
- wasn't there somebody going around maiming gay people--
- EVELYN BAILEY: I don't remember that.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: --with an ice pick or something.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I don't remember.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And we were supposed to be on the lookout.
- And that was the only one we ever
- fired, because she didn't interview in the bar.
- EVELYN BAILEY: There with the skinheads on Monroe Avenue.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: They never came down that far.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And there was a order
- of protection for LGBT people on Monroe Avenue,
- between the inner loop and 490, at the corner of Monroe
- and by the library there.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Right, right.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Well, I would think
- the pub would maybe have more problems with the skinheads.
- And the skinheads were really down by-- wasn't that bar
- called Ryan's?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yes.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: It was always a bad bar.
- And that's where we had our antique shop
- years and years and years ago.
- But we also had a real mean shop cat.
- They sent their German Shepherd.
- I sent my cat, my shop cat.
- My shop cat won. (laughter)
- The guy came back screaming and yelling.
- And I looked at him, and I said, look at the size of your dog.
- Look at the size of my cat.
- Are you kidding?
- (whispering)
- But no, not really.
- We never thought of doing anything like that.
- But then no one else did either.
- Well, I do remember--
- well, we supported the gay picnic, the gay beat pride,
- what's this every year.
- Had anybody asked us, we would have been right there.
- VICKIE FUMIA: But we didn't think of it.
- No.
- EVELYN BAILEY: If you could somehow
- get the ear of young people today,
- what would you say to them about the gay community in Rochester?
- What would you want them to know,
- or what would you want them to be aware of?
- VICKIE FUMIA: That the gay community in Rochester
- is an active force.
- It really is.
- It may not be labeled gay community.
- But there are a lot of people in the gay community who
- do a lot of good things in Rochester.
- And I think they should know things like that.
- But I also think that they should
- know people in the arts that are gay
- and have done fantastic things.
- And they should know business people
- like George Eastman, who's twisting around in his grave
- now.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Would you push them to AA?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Only if they were drinkers.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Only if they're drinking too much. (laughs)
- You have to have all your wits about you.
- Oh, Lord.
- No, but I'd wish them to get involved in things
- and do some good works in the community.
- Everybody should.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Maureen?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Do what they love to do,
- because then you don't work.
- As long as you're having fun at what you're doing,
- it's not work.
- And you'll be good at it.
- You also have to be persistent, regardless of how many people
- say you can't--
- VICKIE FUMIA: You can.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: --know you can.
- But I'm one of those strange people who
- believe that people are people.
- And I don't meet you as, oh, you're a heterosexual, first.
- I meet you as a person.
- So I don't think I have to announce to the world
- that I'm gay.
- My sexuality shouldn't be part of our conversation.
- And if you make it part of the conversation, fine.
- But expect what you get, is whatever you're going to get.
- I'm not going to change.
- But at the same time, I don't have
- to greet everybody I know as, are you gay,
- or are you straight?
- I may not like you either way.
- VICKIE FUMIA: That's true.(laughter)
- MAUREEN BOYLE: That's serious.
- The older you get, I think, you're
- less willing to waste your time.
- When you're young, you've got all the time in the world.
- Plus you also think you're going to die young and pretty.
- So after you get past the young and pretty part,
- you go, OK, fine, now I'm stuck.
- What did I learn?
- So you have to keep learning as you go.
- Because hardly any of us die young and pretty.
- And you've got to start out pretty first. (laughter)
- VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, dear.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I have no more questions.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I have one more.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: She's been thinking
- about this one for a while.
- I can see it in her eyes. (laughter)
- EVELYN BAILEY: If there was one thing you could have changed,
- or done over, when you had the bar, what would it have been?
- VICKIE FUMIA: I would have been very
- happy if we had gotten the guys and the girls
- to come in together and have a good time together, you know?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Actually, I'm one of those strange people who
- believe if you change one thing, it changes the entire thing.
- So I'm not real sure I would have changed any of it.
- Because all of it, the sum total, is what makes Rosie's.
- And it wasn't just one evening there,
- it was many evenings that comprises a whole, where they
- can say, it was a great bar.
- I used to go to Jim's.
- It was a great bar.
- It was filthy as crap.
- I never would have gone to the bathrooms.
- But it was a great bar.
- Because I danced there.
- I had a wonderful time.
- The drinks, so-so.
- I loved dancing there.
- So for me, Jim's was dancing.
- The other bars, we just went to because that's what
- bar owners were supposed to do.
- Actually, we found out later that the bar owners were
- checking on their clientele.
- I thought they were just being nice. (laughter)
- We used to have a Bar Owners Association-- oh, dear god--
- and all the bar owners would get together.
- And then Vickie and I would show up.
- So we had all these guys.
- And all of a sudden, one of them would
- start fighting with another one of them.
- And at one point, we were on--
- what was that, Edwards?
- Not Edwards.
- The one on Alexander Street there.
- Close from--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: There was Lloyd's.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Lloyd's.
- Fred Lloyd's.
- We were in the upstairs room.
- They started arguing.
- I don't know how Vickie got out from between me,
- but she got out of the way.
- And I was standing between the two of them.
- And I'm thinking to myself, oh, dear god, they're
- going to shove me right out the window and go after each other.
- I can see it now.
- My mother is going to go to the O.R.
- to tell Vickie not to have a funeral here.
- But we had just come from a girls funeral,
- and they had dressed for Lesley.
- And when I saw them, I hit the floor.
- And I turned around to Vickie, and I
- said, (whispering) if I die tomorrow,
- do not have my funeral here.
- Send me to Florida.
- Do not have it here.
- I do not want my mother to see this.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, dear.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So why do you think
- there was such animosity, or inability to come together,
- among the men and the women?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: It wasn't animosity.
- Well, it was probably animosity on the girls' side,
- only because they said the guys had so many bars.
- And because I think most women think of themselves
- as second class citizens.
- I think they looked at Vickie and I
- as oddities, opening up a bar, period.
- But most women don't open businesses.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Didn't.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Didn't.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: We had the largest gay bar, women's
- gay bar, in upstate New York.
- And I used to look at Vickie and go, really?
- And she'd go, yeah.
- VICKIE FUMIA: It's true
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Wow.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But what did you know of the Riverview though?
- Because that was a women's bar, Right
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- Sure was.
- Right?
- That's where everybody went, a lot of people.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Not much.
- VICKIE FUMIA: But it wasn't--
- EVELYN BAILEY: It was a lot rougher.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Very.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So yeah, what Maureen said just said it.
- It kind of struck me odd that they
- would look at you as two women who are bar owners.
- But you already had women owning a bar.
- Riverview was owned by women, wasn't it?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Right.
- VICKIE FUMIA: By a woman.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, but her husband--
- VICKIE FUMIA: Martha's was owned by a woman.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah, but she was a married woman.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yes.
- And what's her name.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: So was the Riverview.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: So we did have husbands there.
- VICKIE FUMIA: For a long time.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What, if anything,
- did you know about Martha's?
- What was it?
- It was Dick's 43?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Was that owned by Martha?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Actually, one of the stories I heard--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, I was going to say,
- were they still in business when you opened or not?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yes.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Were they already gone?
- VICKIE FUMIA: No, they were in business, I'm sure.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I think they reopened.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Over on South Avenue or something?
- EVELYN BAILEY: No, they reopened there.
- And then one of them got shot or something.
- Or they all got shot.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Oh, she did.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, Martha got shot.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Martha got shot.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah, they were never a place
- that I wanted to go to, really.
- And to be very honest with you, as I said, the male gay bar
- owners used to say, what are you two opening up a gay bar for?
- And we had never really gone to bars here.
- It's just that we'd hear stories.
- And then we started going out to bars
- to see what they were like.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: And hey, we could do that.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yes, we could.
- We did.
- And the Riverview was kind of seedy.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: I was going to say a dive.
- But seedy will do. (Bailey laughs)
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
- VICKIE FUMIA: And Martha's, I never went into.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: But it looks seedy from the outside.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- And, oh, what was it, the Blue Chip?
- 110 years ago?
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Yeah.
- VICKIE FUMIA: That was--
- I had been to a couple of times.
- And that was a--
- EVELYN BAILEY: What about the Bachelor Forum?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah, yeah.
- Went there.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Tara's?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Again.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Tara's looked aged to me.
- Bachelor Forum?
- A dive.
- So to be real honest, Friar's was the best bar as far
- as looks, in comparison to everybody else's.
- And it shocked me when you went to the other bars,
- because of Friar's.
- They all had to look that good.
- And we definitely wanted ours to look as good as Friar's.
- VICKIE FUMIA: You're looking better.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Thank you.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yeah, I do.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I enjoyed Rosie's very much--
- VICKIE FUMIA: I did too.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --when I went there.
- I came out '78--
- VICKIE FUMIA: OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --'79, here in Rochester.
- I didn't start going to the bars until '86, '87,
- with Claire Parker Chick.
- VICKIE FUMIA: Chick, yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And then went to Rosie's.
- And Joan Jeffrey--
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yep.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --you remember Joan?
- VICKIE FUMIA: Yes.
- MAUREEN BOYLE: Oh, yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I met her.
- And when Claire and I went out, I said to Claire, is she crazy?
- (laughter) And Claire said, yes.
- But she was visionary in many, many ways.
- She had--