Audio Interview, Mike, 1974

  • MIKE: At that time, early in my life or earlier than now,
  • I'll say ten years ago, like then I was I
  • felt like I tried to identify with these super violent men.
  • With Hell's Angels, with, you know,
  • Wyatt Earp er Wyatt Earp Jesse James, and, you know,
  • the outlaw image, the very masculine men.
  • And then up until a little, short time ago maybe a year,
  • maybe even then, I was still like really intense into that.
  • And now, the way I feel about it was, you know,
  • I was looking for a man image because like I
  • felt that I had none.
  • I grew up, you know I was always mommy.
  • I grew up like with all women, consistently
  • around me like that, you know?
  • And so, you know, this was like the most masculine thing
  • there was out.
  • It's this real virile, hard guy, fighter, (unintelligible).
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: You got this image
  • like after your father left?
  • MIKE: No, that was like you know,
  • I grew up my early years, until I was like four years
  • old on, like I lived me, my mother,
  • it was my grandmother, and my grandfather, and my aunt,
  • and my cousin both female.
  • My cousin is a girl, too.
  • I was consistently surrounded with women in the house,
  • at all times, like that, you know?
  • My grandfather was older like that.
  • And he was a rummy, at that time.
  • He drank a lot like then, you know.
  • So what I figure is what happened like then myself
  • is that when I started coming to realize these things,
  • that I was looking for like a man image, or a father image,
  • or something like that to copy, this is what I went for.
  • It was the most, you know, outspoken, violent thing
  • that I could get a hold of.
  • And at that time, in the late sixties and middle sixties,
  • the Hell's Angels were in full swing.
  • Everybody was denim, leather, you know, swastika.
  • At least that's the way I saw it, you know?
  • And that's what I went after.
  • I could never reach that point.
  • It's really so bizarre, you know?
  • I had all the trappings.
  • I had this iron cross around my neck
  • and I had the cut off denim, you know.
  • And I had the gang's name on the back: Rogues, you know,
  • Incorporated, Lovejoy, Buffalo, New York.
  • And that was my it was a big suit.
  • I used to love wearing that, man, you know?
  • Just the way people would look at me.
  • Look, there goes a man.
  • You know?
  • And it was really true.
  • That's the way it really was, you know?
  • Because like I could like go in any place, you know?
  • I knew what was going on inside me
  • and I wasn't what was portrayed.
  • And yeah.
  • I could go into a place like that
  • and I could give off enough show that people wouldn't bother.
  • You say,"Uh oh."
  • You know?
  • It was a mutual agreement that other rough guys do not
  • hassle this rough guy, too.
  • And it was mutually like that, you know?
  • Just don't mess with that guy, you know?
  • And I was never these people started picking up this,
  • you know.
  • Other people started seeing the ads that mask.
  • And it was so bizarre.
  • And then like a legend grew up, you know?
  • Like I don't remember.
  • Like I was in a fight in, I think, seventh grade.
  • And I wasn't in another fight for like maybe four years
  • like that.
  • But when I was big and running around like that, you know,
  • a lot of strange people would say like, you know,
  • outside they didn't know me like that.
  • They would really think that was really a hard, you know,
  • nasty thing.
  • You know, here's these guys street corner guys, you know?
  • And I was never really that.
  • After I got out of high school, it even got more intense,
  • for some reason.
  • I really went nuts, you know?
  • I didn't wear shoes for a year, I wore consistent cowboy boots
  • for like eighteen months.
  • I didn't even own a pair of shoes,
  • it was always boots, boots, boots, you know?
  • And always black denim pants, always a black t-shirt.
  • I had a big trucker's wallet hanging out
  • with the chain on it, the belt. And I
  • used to wear the skull the cat skull all the time, you know?
  • And it was just, you know, it was just a big joke. (Laughs)
  • And what happened, I think, is I started to believe the image.
  • And that's where I really got into trouble
  • because I couldn't keep up with what I thought I was,
  • or what I wanted to be, or identify with.
  • And that was a big hassle.
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: What was it again that you definitely
  • wanted to identify with?
  • MIKE: I think I wanted to identify with a masculine image
  • of what a man is.
  • And I felt like
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: Did you try it like in all ways?
  • MIKE: No.
  • I don't think so.
  • I don't know.
  • INTERVIEWER ONE: Okay well, you were
  • talking about being really masculine,
  • so did that also go into like what was your relationships
  • in high school?
  • I mean, besides like with the guys,
  • did the other image like go into with your relationships
  • with women that you met?
  • MIKE: Yeah.
  • It did.
  • And it always consistently followed me up, too.
  • INTERVIEWER ONE: I want you to explain it.
  • Like, what happened?
  • MIKE: Well, say, how could the immortal, masculine, mucho
  • macho man, how could he like lower himself to like,
  • you know, to love a woman, you know?
  • Because women were always sex objects in our group.
  • They were nothing else.
  • They had no minds.
  • Nothing.
  • It was always like, you know, broads.
  • It was never women, or girls, or anything,
  • it always broads like that.
  • And it's really hard.
  • If you're trying to portray something you're not,
  • how are you going to portray it that way?
  • And I got really messed up all through those
  • through hangups like that.
  • I just couldn't come out.
  • It was another I was suppressed in all
  • these ways these social pressures
  • and pressures from home like that.
  • It really messed with I can't explain it yet myself.
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: Well, why don't you give like, you know,
  • a particular example of like a relationship?
  • And then like, you know, how did the conflict come in you?
  • I mean, you tried to love a particular, you know, woman,
  • and then it'd get involved, it would get tangled up because
  • MIKE: Yeah.
  • Because of, you know, having to play
  • the role, of having to act like something I wasn't like that.
  • And I think I chose, also, people
  • who I would have want to have relationships with.
  • I would choose like people who, like maybe,
  • supposedly jive with that and yet, didn't.
  • I'm gonna see if I can put that better.
  • I felt I chose people who I felt were, say, the ideal person
  • for the ultra masculine man, you know, like the chick
  • with the cut off jacket, right?
  • Like that.
  • And it turns out that these people are playing roles, too.
  • You got two people playing roles, you know? (Laughs)
  • And it's really hard for me to, you know,
  • carry on and have a serious relationship, a long term one.
  • I still don't have long term relationships.
  • It's always hit and run, you know?
  • (Unintelligible) I can't get over that.
  • I blew so many beautiful women with beautiful heads
  • like that by playing a game.
  • I don't know.
  • It was just a lot of pressure, too,
  • from like I don't want to put too much pressure from home
  • like that, but I think that's got a lot to do with it.
  • I really do.
  • Because like I was telling Paul before, like,
  • there was a total matriarchal society there, in my house.
  • Grandma was boss, mama listened to grandma,
  • grandpa had nothing to say, and then it was Mikey, you know?
  • And auntie came over with little girl, you know,
  • cousin and here it is, you know?
  • You know, you'reI think I thought that I was being
  • feminized like that, so I took hold of the most masculine
  • thing I could find.
  • INTERVIEWER ONE: You had to.
  • MIKE: I had to, right?
  • Or did I have to?
  • I don't know.
  • I don't think so.
  • INTERVIEWER ONE: Well, you had to have some identity.
  • MIKE: Yeah.
  • So this is what I tried to identify with.
  • And yet, it fell through like that.
  • INTERVIEWER ONE: Well, it might have
  • been the best thing you could have done at the time.
  • MIKE: Yeah.
  • But I shouldn't have had to go through all those, right.
  • You know, I blew so many things, you know?
  • So many good things.
  • I could really enjoyed myself doing by,
  • you know, hanging out, you know, putting on the big show.
  • Let's see what I get into.
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: But how do you feel about yourself now?
  • I mean, do you think you're playing any games now?
  • MIKE: In a way, I'm still caught up in that not as much
  • as before.
  • And I recognize it now and I kick it
  • down trying to identify with other people
  • and doing what other people will do in order to like
  • get their acceptance, you know?
  • I find myself still doing that on certain occasions like that.
  • But I don't think it's it's not as intense as it
  • was at one time, like, you know, I couldn't like go
  • any place, just myself, I always went like the other person,
  • you know?
  • Like I was saying before the tape,
  • you know, I had all these social pressures on me.
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: Why don't you explain that once again?
  • With the points of how you had a girlfriend.
  • MIKE: Oh, yeah.
  • I was talking before about when I was playing
  • my role as hard guy like that.
  • And the guys I'd hang around with,
  • I don't know if they were playing the role, too.
  • I got a feeling that they probably were, to some extent,
  • too, but I don't know if they had such an intensity about it
  • or not.
  • I can remember, for instance, like Carl and Artie coming
  • to my house "Come on, come on, like, you know,
  • there's a fight down at Walden and Bailey tonight, right?"
  • I went, "Yeah?
  • Jeez, I don't know."
  • And I had all these things going in my head:
  • I don't want to go fight, I might beat up.
  • I might lose, you know?
  • We might lose, you know?
  • That would be terrible, if we lost, right?
  • You know, but yeah, you know, then
  • I said, you know, "If I don't go,
  • like, who am I going to hang out with?"
  • Right?
  • Because there was nobody else.
  • Like, all my friends were in the same thing,
  • we were in the same boats, right?
  • So like I was under that pressure
  • of like having no friends, or being
  • called a cop out, or a chicken, or, you know,
  • a pigeon, or weasel.
  • And weasels are worse than anything, you know.
  • If you're a weasel, you know, what good are you?
  • Where can you go?
  • There was like no one else for me to hang out
  • with because all my friends were in the same boat like that,
  • you know?
  • All the guys that I was hanging around with at that time.
  • INTERVIEWER ONE: So you always went?
  • MIKE: So I went.
  • Right.
  • This is exact (unintelligible) I can remember like that,
  • you know?
  • And I can remember like walking down
  • Walden with Carl and Artie, you know, going down there,
  • you know, giving ourselves the boost,
  • the talk like that, you know.
  • And I can remember like the things
  • like running through my head, like, you know,
  • which is the best way for me to escape?
  • How could I get out of this?
  • You know?
  • I got to go to school.
  • And I think, that they got to go to school, too, you know?
  • And all that garbage, you know?
  • You know, forget about the homework, right?
  • And I just couldn't get out of it,
  • so I was there, going with them.
  • Then we used to meet at [INAUDIBLE] on Walden
  • and Bailey, right there.
  • And everybody's all over there with the jackets
  • and everybody's getting geared for the fight like that.
  • We were fighting on Genesee that night, Lost Souls on Genesee.
  • So there's like fifty guys from Walden.
  • They're all around there and everything.
  • So I was nervous.
  • I was really nervous like that.
  • And then it was like, if I left well, at that time,
  • I wasn't hanging around with Walden.
  • We were hanging out in Lovejoy, in a gang in Lovejoy.
  • And Artie was likehe was a real high member.
  • He was like vice president, I think,
  • at that time of the gang in Lovejoy like that.
  • So like this was our little part of Lovejoy helping Walden out,
  • in case we needed help some other time, you know.
  • That was just a lie no one ever helps you out.
  • (Laughs) So I can remember like going out in [INAUDIBLE]
  • and meeting behind, I think, Victor's Store.
  • And we were all standing around.
  • All the other guys who are running around, getting ready,
  • and hiding the pipes, and chains, and things like that.
  • And I was likeI tried kind of like everybody was grouping,
  • I can remember standing away from the group like that
  • with the group, but not in the mass, say like that, you know?
  • And then we started like walking through the back
  • streets over to Genesee, through Walden, through Rapin Street,
  • and Hazel Street over there.
  • And I can remember like everybody"Hoo, hoo!"
  • making noises and everything like that.
  • And I remember like walking towards the back of the group,
  • right?
  • And there was Artie.
  • Carl was up in the front, you know?
  • I didn't even know where the hell he was.
  • And I can remember.
  • And there's this one guy walking next to me.
  • And it was the first time I met him.
  • His name is Lonnie.
  • I remember his name and everything.
  • This is like I'm still in high school.
  • Like I was seventeen or sixteen years old.
  • And I can remember walking over there.
  • And I said, "Yeah, I came down to fight."
  • And he goes, "Yeah, me too.
  • I live in this neighborhood, you know."
  • He says to me, I can remember, "Yeah, I
  • got to come to the fight.
  • I live in this neighborhood.
  • There's no place else for me to go."
  • And I said, "Yeah, these are all my friends, too.
  • I got to help them out like that."
  • And I could remember like we were just
  • like walking up to Genesee and I hear all this noise and stuff.
  • So everybody's moving up there.
  • By the time we got up to the street there,
  • everybody was coming back across the street, right.
  • And everybody's running all over the place.
  • We see this one guy, Nature Boy, running up to the tracks.
  • We go, "Nature Boy, where are you going?"
  • He goes, "I'm getting my hammer.
  • I'm going to pound a few heads in," like that.
  • And everybody just dispersed and then like they
  • all came together like in the same spot like that.
  • And a couple guys got beat up on the other side of the street.
  • And they were like seven guys against fifty.
  • Fortunately, we had the fifty guys that time, you know?
  • And so and I remember going up to Artie
  • and I said, "Well, Artie, I came to the fight."
  • And I shook his hand and I said, "I got to go now."
  • And I just took off right out of there
  • because I was really paranoid about being busted, you know,
  • being arrested for assault or something like that.
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: Did you take part in the fight?
  • MIKE: No.
  • It was like over like that.
  • The first two guys who were across the street
  • beat everybody up with the chains and everybody,
  • you know, just came across like that.
  • Like I remember saying to Artie, "See, Artie,
  • I came to the fight, you know?"
  • I shook his hand and I left.
  • And those guys stayed there.
  • And then like, what I would do then
  • this is really terrifying for me inside so then,
  • the next thing I know, I'd be over there, "Yeah,
  • I was in the gang fight down with Lost Souls.
  • Yeah.
  • I was there man.
  • I seen the whole thing."
  • Like I was one of the first guys across the street.
  • You see that guy that got smashed in the head
  • with a chain?
  • Ha, ha.
  • I know the guy who did that.
  • And I'd be playing the role then.
  • And I didn't want to do it, and once I did it
  • I didn't even do it, but I was just
  • around the general vicinity not wanting to do it
  • I'd be bragging about it.
  • I would say, yeah, yeah, I was at that fight.
  • We worked out the Lost Souls at Walden.
  • And it just went on like that, you know?
  • And then like you get those legends built up about.
  • Well, I used to have the parties at my house.
  • I mean, Denny used to say, like, "We had a fire in the summer,"
  • and everybody is all like, "Oh, big fire.
  • Wow."
  • And then we start living up to that
  • and it really becomes complicated.
  • And then you become less and less, you know, your real self.
  • And then it just like perpetuates itself.
  • It keeps moving, you know?
  • Then I think I started to believe
  • what everybody's telling me.
  • And I started to almost like forget about my real self
  • and become the image.
  • Just a like a little bit before the group started
  • is like why I started to like fall away from that.
  • Well, I started about, maybe, six or seven months
  • after I started work, which would
  • be about eighteen months ago.
  • That's when I started just to break away from that.
  • And that would put me somewhere.
  • And I was almost twenty-one years old at that time.
  • I was twenty-one at that time when I just
  • started to fall away from not living up to this image.
  • And like now I feel like, you know,
  • I'm really away from living up to other people's, you
  • know now I can like be more of myself, at this moment.
  • Like I could never like do this.
  • I could never admit this the first time
  • I have ever admitted to anybody that I never
  • wanted to go to those fights and be in those gangs like that.
  • It was cool to say, "I'm in the gang,"
  • but when you came down to defending the neighbors,
  • I'm like, "Ah."
  • I crumble.
  • I fall apart like that.
  • Like I said, that guy, Lonnie, who was walking next to me
  • same thing, man.
  • He was scared as I was, you know,
  • but he was there for the same reason, you know?
  • What can we do?
  • You got to go.
  • But you really don't have to.
  • That's the amazing thing, you know?
  • I think a lot of fear of it was like,
  • you know, I can just see it now: "Mrs. (Unintelligible),
  • this is your son Michael.
  • We just brought him home.
  • He was in a fight somewhere."
  • "Oh, my boy.
  • What's he been doing?"
  • And that's a lot of pressure like that
  • for, like, mom and home.
  • It really is.
  • That's why, I think, I started off on those things like that.
  • I don't know.
  • I feel, at this point, that I'm like blaming
  • too many things on my home life, my early home life like that.
  • But I don't know if it's true or
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: Yeah.
  • But when you're young, most of the influence you have
  • is from your parents and your family.
  • It has to shape you a real lot, no matter who you are.
  • MIKE: Yeah.
  • But I don't know.
  • I'm trying not to believe that.
  • I'm trying to think that I did a lot of reading it
  • and read it wrong.
  • And I think that's a lot of what happened there.
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: What happened when you started work?
  • You know, when you got into work, how did work change you?
  • Just the idea of being in work, you couldn't keep up the image?
  • Or
  • MIKE: No.
  • You see, what was happening was that I was getting older
  • and I was becoming really frustrated with the image.
  • I was really becoming really Like when I would go out,
  • I couldn't have a good time because I
  • had that thing saying, you know, I was doing nothing, you know?
  • I had no money.
  • Hardly.
  • I had money, but, you know, I didn't have enough money to,
  • you know, do a lot of things or things I could have done,
  • if I had been working or something like that.
  • So it really got frustrating.
  • And when I got a job like that, it
  • started to ease off the frustration like that
  • because I was there and I was doing something.
  • And it just started to ease off.
  • It seemed like it was tap into the frustration, the pressure.
  • And it just started to like ease.
  • And then I went back to school that fall, night school,
  • and I was working like that.
  • That was just like last fall.
  • And that was even more.
  • When I was in school before, I would like take up space
  • and that was it.
  • I was there.
  • I just did enough work to get the seat and that's it.
  • And now, I just sit around and I get good marks,
  • good grades just by, you know, I don't even have to study,
  • you know?
  • It's not like being forced, it's because I want it now.
  • Before like I went to college first
  • because I didn't know what to do.
  • I went in likeeverybody in their senior year of high school,
  • September, everybody's writing applications and sending them
  • out all over the place like that, you know?
  • It was April, I think it's about time I do something, you know?
  • So I did, you know?
  • I got accepted out there, at Erie.
  • So I went there for two years.
  • And all I did there was get drunk and pass out.
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: Were you still into the image there?
  • MIKE: Yeah.
  • That's where it got intense.
  • That's where it really got out of hand.
  • That's where the outer dress really blossomed, you know?
  • Always in black, always, in the cowboy boots with the chain,
  • the big skull.
  • That's where it really got intense there.
  • And at that time, after my first year
  • of college, that's when the outer signs of my body
  • started to show the effects from drinking too much, and eating,
  • and just continual partying like that, you know.
  • And that's why I started putting on weight, got a huge beer gut.
  • INTERVIEWER ONE: It's hard to picture you like that,
  • without the black and the skull and the
  • MIKE: I could show you a picture, if you want to see it.
  • They're funny to look at.
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: I remember.
  • Yeah, I remember at through our class and everything.
  • INTERVIEWER ONE: How long have you guys known each other?
  • MIKE: Fifth grade?
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: Yeah.
  • Fifth grade.
  • So a long time.
  • MIKE: We lost track each of other for quite a few years.
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: We'd come back here, once in awhile.
  • MIKE: We came back once in awhile for a reunion.
  • But that's where it got intense.
  • And it was totally every day. (Unintelligible)
  • Like I was telling Paul before, I never wore shoes,
  • it was always boots.
  • And at that time, bells were starting to come in.
  • That was like, oh, I can't do that.
  • And it was always black denim jeans
  • right over the boots, no bell on them.
  • Just cover the boots right off like that.
  • That's what it was, you know?
  • And that's where it really I don't know why.
  • That's supposed to be a stimulating environment there
  • or something like that.
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: Well you didn't have
  • there wasn't any gangs there.
  • You were just mostly by yourself there, right?
  • Putting on the image?
  • MIKE: Yeah.
  • I mean, that it intensified.
  • I don't know.
  • It intensified the image more.
  • I can't figure that out.
  • Why would I do that?
  • I don't But it just got intense then, you know.
  • And then, like I said, at that time
  • I was really capable of putting away
  • great quantities of alcohol at that time, you know.
  • And I had allocations like, I'd have blackouts,
  • minor blackouts like that.
  • When you drink a lot, you know, you get blackouts,
  • where you still move, but you don't know what's happening.
  • And then people tell you these things.
  • And I was starting to get these things, you know?
  • I got it a few times.
  • And one time, I went after Jimmy Loose
  • one night with a hot dog fork.
  • I threatened his life.
  • I was continuous.
  • I was really abusing my body to no end.
  • I guess it was just more frustration there,
  • more trying to live up to the image.
  • I was really going nuts inside.
  • I was really neurotic at that time, you know?
  • I couldn't carry on a relationship with a girl more
  • than like one night, you know?
  • And that was it for me.
  • Like, hi, how are you?
  • I didn't even want to have sex with anybody, you know?
  • I just wanted to be drunk all the time.
  • And like I couldn't function, socially, without drinking.
  • And like I fell apart.
  • I would get to a point, like, I would go out
  • in order to break down the inhibition, I would get drunk.
  • And then when I was drunk enough that the inhibitions were gone,
  • I was too drunk to do what I had broken down
  • the inhibitions to do.
  • And, you know, it really got vicious.
  • And I couldn't function.
  • I couldn't remember.
  • You know, everybody would be sitting around,
  • having one or two beers.
  • And I'd be over there and I'd really get drunk.
  • I was like getting drunk like five days a week, you know?
  • And not just high drunk, but drunk where I was sick.
  • I remember, like every night, I used to come home, you know,
  • and go behind the garage and puke.
  • And that's like day in and day out.
  • And then I started like when I'd get drunk,
  • I wouldn't get tired like that.
  • It would speed me up like, and I'd
  • be walking around, like I'd fall off things, and fall.
  • I always had big, huge bruises on my arms and my legs
  • from falling all the time like that.
  • I was continuously drunk, you know?
  • It was really sickening.
  • And the thing was that, after a while like that,
  • I wasn't having a good time, even in my own head,
  • you know, doing that.
  • Even when I got drunk, the inhibitions
  • were still there, right?
  • I still had the pressure, the social pressure,
  • of not doing anything, but just laying around and being
  • a drunk like that.
  • And it really got super frustrating.
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: What were the like inhibitions that you
  • wanted to like break down?
  • Like you said that you got so drunk
  • that you couldn't do the things that you wanted to break down.
  • What were those things?
  • MIKE: One major thing is like well, I
  • can remember my mother always like putting ladies up
  • on a pedestal for me, like, you know.
  • Women are something ultra special like that.
  • You know, they're not people, they're above you, above men,
  • males.
  • You know.
  • And there was always grandpa around who, supposedly, you
  • know, never took care of the family very good.
  • So she's got this man image from him.
  • My father wasn't with us, you know.
  • And so, like I said, it was super feminine like that.
  • So I was getting pressured, like, you know, I can remember,
  • like, I don't know, like, I can remember like arguing with her,
  • saying, "I didn't mean it that way."
  • Then she'd like embarrass me like in front of like relatives
  • and friends who would come to the house
  • like that her friends, you know, my family,
  • my relatives like that.
  • I can remember her saying, "He hates women, he hates women!
  • You know.
  • Look what he said, look what he said!
  • And I said, "I didn't mean it like that!
  • And she said, "Oh, yeah, yeah."
  • You know.
  • I was like driven away.
  • And the whole thing of women being so idealistic
  • is so, you know like, unapproachable, right?
  • And that's one thing that always like
  • on a social level say, out at a Binky Brown's or something
  • like that is really hard for me now just
  • to imagine that those people are just people and not,
  • you know, off by themselves like that.
  • And it's really hard for me to break down things like that.
  • Where I am is like I have to know them ahead of time.
  • I have to talk a few times.
  • I can't just go up and say hi in a place like that because it's
  • still too bizarre for me.
  • When I'm sober, it was even harder then.
  • Like I couldn't even do it at all, you know?
  • I couldn't go, you know, in a strange place
  • and say, "I like that chick, I think
  • I'll go over there and start a conversation with her."
  • INTERVIEWER TWO: Yeah.
  • But then that's of pressures of the idea
  • that hardly anybody goes through the same things about going
  • into a bar and the bars, really, aren't set up for people
  • to meet each other, in a way.
  • I mean, it's like a pretty loud music,
  • and it's pretty hard to go over, and say hello, and really get
  • to know a person.
  • It's almost a joke, the idea of setting up
  • a bar on that aspect.
  • MIKE: The first thing I do I won't even
  • look at any anybody in there.
  • The first place I would head to when I went any place
  • was just to the bar.
  • I was just sit there and pour four, or five,
  • or six drinks down.
  • And then I could get up to take a walk around,
  • even to look what was there.
  • It's really been difficult because then,
  • I also had that extra thing of trying
  • to live that image of being wild, and hard guy, and tough,
  • and crazy.
  • So you're acting bizarrely in order,
  • you know, to attract attention, maybe.
  • I think that was part of it too attract a lot of attention
  • like that, you know?
  • And like how could I be serious then and say,
  • "Hi, how are you?" (Yells) Look at that one, a warthog.
  • And that's what it was, you know?
  • And then I just keep getting more and more frustration
  • drunker and drunker.
  • And like, you know, if I wanted to I was too drunk.
  • You know, I was slobbering around.
  • What would happen I don't think I can really express to anybody
  • like the amount I used to drink, the great quantities,
  • and how sick I used to get like every night, you know.
  • It was like my days would go like, you know, I would get up
  • and I wasn't in school.
  • It was summer between my first year of college and the second.
  • I didn't want to work.
  • I could have worked if I wanted to.
  • I didn't want to.