Audio Interview, Ove Overmyer, February 6, 2012
- OVE OVERMYER: Happiness is that it was primarily
- a few people in labor here.
- And I can tell you that we worked
- very hard to get CSEA's attention in understanding
- that marriage equality and gender equality are workplace
- right issues, always have been.
- It is labor's issue.
- It is not just an LGBT issue or a fringe issue.
- It's everybody's issue.
- Because everybody works.
- And everybody needs equal work, equal pay.
- Bess Watts, myself, and Tom Privitere,
- who actually works for PEF, which is Public Employees
- Federation, were very instrumental in creating
- coalitions with community members who
- are like-minded and understood what our costs were.
- When we went out into the community
- and explained to them about marriage equality
- and about our lives and to make them understand
- that this is a workplace right issue,
- and that's where we need to focus our energies in the labor
- community, people joined our coalition.
- They understood the importance of it.
- But it was really scary.
- It was really hard work to convince 300,000 coal workers
- in New York state that marriage equality was their issue.
- But through a lot of hard work and some creative language
- and a lot of drinking beer that I didn't particularly
- care to do with a lot of tough union guys
- and convincing them that this was the right thing to do,
- we got the resolution passed through CSEA.
- Once CSEA joined on board, AFL-CIO joined on board,
- and then you saw SEIU and all the other unions
- came in the fold, and it became a huge coalition.
- Of course, there were other organizations
- out there doing kind of the same work.
- So we were partnering with ESPA.
- We were partnering with Pride at Work.
- We didn't have a chapter then.
- We do now obviously, here in the Rochester area.
- But through all those relationships that we built--
- and relationship building is really
- the most important thing--
- that is what created the atmosphere or the climate
- to get our legislative allies to vote yes.
- Jim Alesi never would've voted for marriage equality
- if CSEA wasn't on board.
- I went to Jim Alesi many times and explained to him--
- I go look, Jim, if you don't support this bill,
- you will not get our support.
- You will not get labor's support.
- You cannot win your district without it.
- But besides that, you know deep down inside,
- this is something you need to do.
- You know it's the right thing.
- And he did vote for it.
- Until he came out in support of this bill ahead of basically
- the rest of the Republican senators,
- this bill never would have passed.
- But back in 2009, we got this through CSEA,
- which was a huge hurdle.
- And then the snowball effect happened.
- All the other labor unions understood
- that they need to pass resolutions as well.
- But it was a hard fight because a lot of the people that
- are in my union are Department of Transportation truck
- drivers who--
- fifty-something guys, they've already got twenty-five years
- in, and, you know, they're just not real concerned with--
- and I hate to be so critical, but they don't understand
- how it would affect their life.
- But once they understood that marriage equality is
- a workplace rights issue, and if you come from that perspective,
- then they understood the bigger picture.
- And they would say, hey, an injury to one
- is an injury to all.
- And we need to fix this.
- And that's what happened.
- So that, I think people would appreciate that story
- because it shows that this region played
- a huge role in making change throughout the state.
- I mean, and there are other instances as well.
- But, you know, what Bess and I did through marriage equality
- with getting these resolutions through state organizations,
- it's behind the scenes work that most people don't know about.
- It's not something that you go out there and blow your horn.
- You just do the work and hope everything falls into place.
- But it takes a cast of thousands to do this simultaneously
- in order to work.
- And again, all the other work that people did leading up
- to the bill getting passed.
- But labor's role in getting even SONDA passed in 2002 was huge.
- Social change doesn't happen without working people
- collectively organized who come together
- and understand that they have some political clout in the way
- that we govern ourselves.
- And they have to exercise it.
- And we do.
- And it's principled.
- And we need to do that.
- Because it's what makes a better community.
- It makes a better state.
- It makes a better world.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- Well Kevin will listen to this and to what we've said.
- That piece is-- you're correct in assuming that that's
- the piece we wanted to talk to you about,
- and your political activity here in Monroe County.
- But it's also important for the documentary
- to have the broader picture.
- And you do have--
- you have almost twenty years here.
- And you've seen things change.
- And you've seen things not change.
- And you have a perspective that not many people have.
- Because even though you're a very reflective person,
- you think about what's going on.
- OVE OVERMYER: Every day.
- I'm a librarian.
- I live to record history.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- And at the same time, you can look at it from above
- and see a broader picture.
- And both of those perspectives are very important and integral
- to telling the story.
- But those perspectives come out of your history.
- They come out of who Ove Overmeyer is.
- And even though-- you see, Brockport
- is like outside of Rochester.
- It's the hinterland--
- OVE OVERMYER: I lived in Brockport for sixteen years.
- I was born in the hospital there,
- Lakeside Memorial Hospital on West Avenue.
- And even though I played basketball and sports, that's
- the only time I ever went to other communities
- was when I was on a bus on a sports team.
- I'd been to the city of Rochester
- I think three times in my adult life
- before I moved here in '93.
- So this could have been Topeka, Kansas for all I knew.
- I knew nothing of the city of Rochester
- because this was not my existence.
- I lived in a rural house, Cape Cod house, on a farm street,
- on a farm road, on the outsides of a small college town.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- And that also has its insulating effects.
- It also has the effect of having lived there moving
- to a large metropolis like New York City can be splitting
- in terms of, all of a sudden you're
- not in control of your environment.
- All of a sudden you have many, many, many more variables
- to deal with and to negotiate.
- OVE OVERMYER: And I have to say, though, I look back on my life.
- I mean, I don't regret--
- I made some bad choices like everybody else.
- But I have to say though, it was always
- an exciting time in my life.
- I was very fortunate.
- I was protected by great friends.
- You know, I've made some bad choices, you know,
- like we all do.
- But it was an exciting time to make choices for myself.
- And the idea of having opportunities
- that were in front of me were just too good to pass up.
- And I did take a lot of risks.
- I succeeded a lot.
- I failed a lot.
- But those are experiences I would never--
- I don't regret because they make me who I am today.
- They make me the strong, solid person that I think I've become
- and a good role model for the kids that I take care of.
- So it's all part of my DNA.
- It's made me who I am today.
- And there was a time when I didn't feel integrated.
- But I think when I moved to Rochester,
- I became a more integrated person.
- I became more comfortable with myself.
- In New York, it was kind of hard because I was compartmentalized
- in a way with a couple of different jobs,
- and I was perceived differently.
- And I was traveling in circles of people that, you know,
- in business that was very difficult because they
- put restraints on you.
- But I didn't have that.
- And I work in an environment at a library
- where it's very inclusive.
- I'm encouraged about sharing information
- about people's lives.
- Because after all, as a union representative,
- I have to make people's lives better.
- People come to me with problems, and I solve them.
- I remedy things for people.
- I give them resources.
- I send it to the Gay Alliance.
- I don't know how many--
- I've had so many people come up to me at the library and say,
- you know what?
- I think I'm gay.
- What do I do?
- And I say, I'm glad you came to me.
- Because I'm the person that can help you.
- I mean, that happened to me more than a dozen times.
- And people crying, concerned.
- You know, young kids.
- But they knew because I was open,
- and I was honest with myself.
- They respected me for that honesty and that openness.
- I have a work--
- I have a public job in the city of Rochester
- that let me grow and be that person
- so I could help others in their lives.
- And to me, there's a huge reward there.
- And it's helped me become a better person
- and to become an integrated person,
- and to feel good about myself, and to have a role
- here in this community.
- But I also want to say, is that the reason why
- I think I looked at things objectively
- is I've also been reporting on this community for ten years.
- I don't think there's a--
- besides Susan, there's a person that has met more people
- and that has been to more events and has witnessed
- our transition from the 2000s-- say the 1990s to the 2000s,
- to the 21st century--
- more than myself.
- You know, I've written 140 column pieces, more than that,
- for the Empty Closet.
- I haven't numerically made them, but if you
- go to EBSCOlife, which is a database of gay literature,
- gay newspapers or gay information and resource
- information, there's thousands, almost tens of thousands
- of citations for articles I've written in the EC that
- are in these databases for future historians
- to look up our history here in Rochester.
- So I take huge pride in the fact that I
- was part of documenting Rochester's history
- through a very, very interesting time.
- Passing SONDA in 2002, the marriage
- equality obviously just recently.
- But chipping away at all these rights.
- And getting to a point where people
- feel more integrated in this community,
- and their guards are down.
- They can become themselves.
- They're actualizing their lives, where they've never
- been able to do that before.
- People who are another generation that are still
- living here that are in a gay relationship
- or a same-sex relationship are looking back and saying,
- well, this was inconceivable to me
- that this would ever happen in my lifetime,
- that people could actually marry and it's OK.
- My neighbors wouldn't be throwing rocks at my windows.
- Even though a little bit of that--
- there's pockets where that does occur--
- that this is happening to us.
- And people understand our role in this world
- and the gifts that we have and our importance.
- You know?
- I mean, not just to ourselves, but as what
- we have to offer the community.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, the contributions
- of the LGBT community to the city of Rochester,
- to this region, are innumerable.
- And they are significant because they have moved the benchmark,
- and they have moved the agenda, whether it be the gay agenda
- or another agenda.
- OVE OVERMYER: Well, I'd like to think--
- you know, it's been my personal understanding
- of why I'm a Democrat and my identity, is to understand it
- with the principles and the values in which I
- see the world.
- And I want a world of inclusion.
- I want a world of opportunity.
- I want these things to exist.
- So therefore, I try to get out there.
- I wake up every day, and I go out in the community
- and try to act on that behalf.
- And if that's becoming a good Democrat
- and trying to convince people that democratic principles are
- important in people's lives, I'll
- pursue a political agenda that will get us to that place.
- But it is about compromise.
- It's about understanding that, how do we get from A to B?
- But how do we remedy something that's do-able?
- And to be that conciliatory person to get us to that place.
- It requires an enormous amount of energy and skill,
- but I'm committed to do that.
- And I've always been committed to do that.
- Politics gives me a way of doing that.
- My union work gives me an ability to do that.
- My family life gives me an ability to do that.
- My community work gives me the ability to do that.
- My work with the Gay Alliance as a volunteer here for almost
- twenty years has given me an opportunity to do just that.
- So that has-- all of those shared experiences
- have made me the person I am today.
- And it strengthens all of the things that I do.
- It makes me a better person.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And it strengthens the community.
- OVE OVERMYER: And I'd like to think it does.
- But I'm just one of many, many people that do the same thing.
- There's so many people in this community
- that do the same thing.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But it is never the single drop of water.
- It is the cumulative drops of water
- that go into the bucket that make it overflow.
- OVE OVERMYER: You're absolutely right.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And so if you didn't do your piece,
- if you didn't make that contribution,
- there would be less water in the bucket.
- OVE OVERMYER: I agree.
- And my challenge has been to convince people just
- to add their water (laughter) and stir (laughter).
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, thank you.
- We'll get together again and--
- so Ove.
- OVE OVERMYER: Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You got here in 1993.
- OVE OVERMYER: Yes, I did.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did you get involved with the Gay Alliance
- immediately?
- OVE OVERMYER: I did, immediately.
- I was here recuperating because I lived in New York City
- and was recuperating because I actually got hit by a car.
- So I was here doing some physical rehabilitation.
- And I picked up an issue of the Empty Closet.
- And I said oh, there's a gay newspaper in Rochester.
- That's great.
- So I immediately submitted a letter
- to the editor commenting on one of the news items.
- Well, the day that it was published,
- Susan Jordan called me and says, hey,
- would you like to write for the newspaper?
- And I said, well, I guess I have the time.
- I just have a little transportation
- issue because I was so banged up,
- I had a hard time moving around.
- But I took an assignment immediately.
- She told me to go to the bookbinding
- place on Monroe Avenue.
- This is 1993.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Susan Soleil?
- OVE OVERMYER: Susan Soleil was my first interview.
- And I talked with Susan, and what a wonderful store she had.
- I went upstairs, and I sat as she was working
- at her desk binding books.
- Because she was involved with the film festival,
- which was in its third--
- I believe it was in its one or two or third year or something.
- I think the third year.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, the 20th is 2012.
- So '92 would have been the first year.
- OVE OVERMYER: So it was the second year
- of the film festival.
- So I interviewed her and a couple other people,
- and I did a story about the film festival.
- I mean, little did we know when we look back
- that that was one of the first documentations of like, how
- people were actually working on a common goal
- to bring more people to Rochester to celebrate
- our arts that we have here in this community
- and just do something, you know, that today
- is looked upon as one of the best things
- that Rochester has to offer.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So you stayed.
- OVE OVERMYER: I did stay.
- There was a transition period where
- I had property in New York.
- But what happened is over time, I
- was also going to the library a lot because I had free time,
- and I was rehabilitating.
- And they actually asked me to apply for a job at the library.
- So I applied, and I've been working there ever since.
- Well, I started with the Rochester Public Library
- in 1997, and I've been working there ever since.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And you have a degree in--
- OVE OVERMYER: I do.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Library science?
- OVE OVERMYER: Master in library science.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That you got before you came here.
- OVE OVERMYER: Well, I got it as soon as-- well, yeah,
- I took some classes at Buffalo.
- I already had a masters when I came here in psychology,
- believe it or not.
- And I was working in the food and beverage
- industry in New York.
- And when I moved here, it was just a couple classes
- at the school in Buffalo, which I took at night while I was
- working at the public library.
- Got my MLS.
- And I guess the rest is history.
- EVELYN BAILEY: When did you first
- begin your political involvement in--
- OVE OVERMYER: Well, my career, I guess you can say,
- with politics started I think in the early 2000s.
- I immediately-- in my neighborhood,
- I live in the East End Monroe Avenue neighborhood.
- And I was contacted by a few people.
- One of them, Alan Richards, who at the time
- was working for Empire State Pride Agenda,
- asked me to become a committee member for the Monroe County
- Democratic Committee.
- So I went to a meeting, and they immediately
- said, well, you're on our committee,
- whether you like it or not.
- So I was doing committee work with regards
- to getting signatures for petitions,
- for candidates, and getting involved in a political process
- and getting to know the people, the lay of the land
- here in Monroe County.
- So that began around 2002.
- But I would say I cut my teeth politically in 2005
- when Tim Mains ran for mayor.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So you weren't here
- for his previous campaigns?
- OVE OVERMYER: No, I wasn't.
- I met Tim probably right when I joined the Monroe County
- Democratic Committee around 2002.
- I knew of him.
- I had no projects that I worked with him on or anything.
- But I knew him socially.
- But the first time that we became really good friends was
- when he reached out to me and said,
- look, I've got a lot of community backing.
- This could be a good thing.
- I'm going to announce to run for mayor.
- I think it was February 11, I believe
- was the press conference on the steps of City Hall.
- And at that time, he had the majority
- of the Democratic Party of Monroe County behind him.
- Because there was no Robert Duffy announced.
- He did not announce before then.
- I think it was much after that.
- And same thing with Wade Norwood.
- They didn't announce until much later.
- But at the time, Tim really had the consensus
- of all the Democratic leaders in Monroe County.
- But as you can see, we went through that really tough
- primary process that people kind of peeled off and went
- in different directions.
- But I stayed with Tim.
- And it was an incredibly eye opening experience.
- I learned a lot.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Go back to New York.
- Were you born in New York?
- OVE OVERMYER: No, actually I was born in Brockport, New York,
- which is in Monroe County.
- But when I left Brockport when I was sixteen,
- I went to college at Alfred University
- and then transferred to Cortland College.
- And then I graduated in 1979 and got a job
- as a teacher in Eastport School District on Long Island.
- So I lived on Long Island.
- I was a volunteer firefighter in Westhampton Beach,
- and I also worked for the mayor there.
- I did a lot of political work for the village mayor, who
- happened to be a gay person.
- And that was back in 1980.
- And I had a great time.
- I lived on the beach, and it was the '80s.
- It was the time of conspicuous consumption.
- We did a lot.
- We played hard and we worked hard.
- It was a great time.
- And then I found an opportunity about five years later,
- and I had dual residency.
- I was working in New York for Rusty Staub, who was a baseball
- player for the New York Mets.
- I bumped into him from a mutual friend.
- And he asked me to manage his restaurant on Fifth Avenue,
- which I did for a while.
- So I was moving in pretty high circles there for a while.
- And it was just--
- I had great opportunities and I had a lot of fun,
- but I spent a lot of time on the Long Island Railroad
- and a lot of time on the Long Island Expressway going
- from Manhattan to Westhampton Beach for about ten,
- thirteen years.
- So until I actually got-- had a bad accident in '93.
- And that's why I moved here.
- My brother suggested I come here and have
- a rehabilitation at Strong Hospital, which I did.
- EVELYN BAILEY: How involved were you
- in the gay community in New York?
- OVE OVERMYER: Well, you know, I supported
- some gay friendly candidates in my neighborhood for office.
- Because it's such a large city obviously,
- it was a real interesting transition
- moving here because for what a lot of I
- think that I took for granted living in a large city
- and then moving here is the way that people treated each other.
- There was just much more respect,
- I think, in a larger city with regards
- to identity, especially gender identity and orientation.
- Where here I was kind of taken aback by the way
- that people were treated initially.
- And it took me a while to understand it.
- But most of my concerns when I was in New York,
- I wasn't real politically active.
- I was always consciously aware.
- I worked on some national campaigns.
- But most of the work that I did was supporting local candidates
- in my neighborhood who ran for local office up in Harlem.
- That's where I lived.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Harlem?
- OVE OVERMYER: Mm hmm, 110th Street
- over on the Upper West Side.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Hm (laughter)
- I didn't know that.
- I mean, I knew very little about your background
- until two minutes ago.
- OVE OVERMYER: Yeah, it's a little more diverse
- than you would think.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- When you were growing up in Brockport,
- did you know people who were gay?
- OVE OVERMYER: Oh, I mean, some.
- But you know what, I really didn't--
- I was so excited about daily living that identity really
- wasn't important to me at the time.
- I was just having fun with my friends
- and doing what felt good.
- It was the '70s.
- And I wasn't really concerned about labels or anything else.
- And I had girlfriends.
- I never had any boyfriends in the '70s.
- I never really thought about or tried
- to cognitively understand identity
- until much later in life.
- Because it really wasn't important early on.
- I think that there was--
- for the people that I associated with at the time,
- it wasn't really a--
- gender identity and sexual orientation
- wasn't that big of a deal.
- Until I got into like, some circles of friends
- where it was, and that was when I started
- to move in different circles with employment
- and things of that nature where it mattered for some reason.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But when you were growing up, did you sense
- there was any--
- it would have been in the '60s, right?
- OVE OVERMYER: My formative years were
- the late '60s, early '70s, yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And so was the community--
- not the gay community, but the Brockport community--
- were they?--
- OVE OVERMYER: Well, I have little-- no.
- No.
- As a matter of fact, I think--
- I knew that there were some gay people in my class
- when I graduated.
- But no one was open, openly gay or lesbian or bisexual or
- transgender.
- But there were people, but we just didn't talk about it.
- They didn't receive a lot of negative treatment.
- But it wasn't something that was really talked about.
- It was really-- you know, people kept to themselves.
- It wasn't, you know, an issue because no one
- wanted to be out there.
- There was no advocacy going on.
- I mean, there was no real gay rights feeling there.
- That's for sure.
- There was none of that.
- Because we just didn't talk about it.
- I think anybody who did self-identify
- as gay or lesbian kept it to themselves.
- And that's how they lived.
- I mean, it just wasn't something you talked about.
- I mean, I never really came out to my family.
- You know, they just found out through friends
- and conversation.
- But it was never that big of a deal.
- They probably, you know, said, well, why the hell isn't he
- married yet?
- Like seven of my other brothers and sisters were.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did you have a vocabulary?
- I'll explain that.
- When we interviewed Whitey, Whitey
- went to Atlanta to college.
- And he was living with a partner and had friends.
- But it wasn't until one of his friends went to Fort Lauderdale
- and came back and said, I now know what we are.
- We're queer.
- OVE OVERMYER: Right.
- Right right.
- I would never use that term.
- But I didn't self-identify as gay until probably, I'd say,
- '85.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But back then, were there words to--
- or was it just homosexual?
- OVE OVERMYER: It was just homosexual, and that's it.
- And I don't think it was meant anything other
- than a clinical term to describe certain behaviors.
- And I didn't hear it, I don't remember, as a kid.
- Again, I left Brockport community when I was sixteen.
- I was very, very young.
- I mean, I went to college right when I-- just before I
- turned seventeen.
- So I don't remember much about my high school days
- because I was an athlete.
- I played basketball.
- I played football.
- I was twelve- letter athlete.
- I was in student council.
- I mean, I've never really had a problem with socialization
- ever in my--
- and I just assumed that most people probably didn't even
- understand my orientation.
- And neither did I at the time.
- Because really, I wasn't acting as a sexual person.
- I didn't have any girlfriends.
- I didn't have any boyfriends.
- I just-- it was the '70s.
- And I guess, you know, not until alcohol
- got involved did I actually probably consider
- acting on some of my emotions.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- And when you went to New York, was there--
- see, I'm trying to get a feel for that era,
- in terms of what it was like for a gay person
- or for a straight person to be in that period of time.
- What was there a focus on being gay?
- Or was it just--
- I mean, '69, Stonewall happened.
- OVE OVERMYER: Right.
- Right.
- Yeah.
- I mean, there was conversations.
- But most of my friends that I associated with were not gay.
- I did not hang out with gay people.
- I knew people who were gay, but I think the ones
- that I did know were integrated certainly within the friends
- that I had.
- And I think most of the people that I associated with were--
- most of them would call them intellectuals or academic type
- people.
- But there were artists.
- A lot of them were athletes.
- But were pretty smart people.
- And I think they were very accepting.
- So I think I lived in a kind of a bubble.
- I don't think the way that I lived necessarily reflected
- what was going on in society.
- I certainly felt depressed.
- The more that I understood my own identity--
- obviously there was a transition period
- where I had to really accept those facts.
- And I was concerned about the people I cared about,
- and how they treated me after when
- I would self-identify as gay.
- I remember my first--
- there was this one guy in particular.
- He was about seven years my junior.
- He lived in Brooklyn.
- And he pursued me for like six months.
- He came out for a weekend vacation in Westhampton.
- And he followed me around for--
- I don't know, for months.
- And I said, well I'm just not interested in a relationship.
- But, you know-- and I think that would have been my first jump
- to say, OK, well, now I'm in a relationship.
- So now I'm self-identifying as gay.
- And I'm acting like this.
- And people will perceive me that way.
- But I think for the longest time,
- people didn't perceive me as gay because I
- wasn't acting in a relationship, or I didn't have a partner.
- Until I relented, until I said, you know what?
- This is what I want to do.
- And then we moved in together in New York.
- And that was like '86, I believe.
- That's when things started to change.
- But because we lived with such a really,
- an accepting neighborhood and--
- well, it was great being part owners of a business,
- because most of the people that I hired were gay.
- So that was helpful.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That helps.
- OVE OVERMYER: It did help.
- Because believe me, we understood, you know,
- the concerns of New York at that time.
- And again, I was living in New York at a time when there was--
- obviously, AIDS was absolutely killing people left and right.
- It was a very sad time.
- But it also was a time when we had a lot of artists that
- just were dying left and right.
- And it was just leaving such a huge vacuum for most of us.
- So it was a very traumatic time.
- But we came together like no other time
- I could ever imagine.
- And my relationships with people in the '80s
- still remain today, of the people who are still alive.
- Most of them are not.
- Most of my friends in the '80s have passed away.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I think we should
- stop because it's five o'clock.
- You have to get going.
- But we'll have to schedule this--
- OVE OVERMYER: I didn't realize you
- were interested in my person.