Audio Interview, Ove Overmyer, February 6, 2012

  • OVE OVERMYER: Happiness is that it was primarily
  • a few people in labor here.
  • And I can tell you that we worked
  • very hard to get CSEA's attention in understanding
  • that marriage equality and gender equality are workplace
  • right issues, always have been.
  • It is labor's issue.
  • It is not just an LGBT issue or a fringe issue.
  • It's everybody's issue.
  • Because everybody works.
  • And everybody needs equal work, equal pay.
  • Bess Watts, myself, and Tom Privitere,
  • who actually works for PEF, which is Public Employees
  • Federation, were very instrumental in creating
  • coalitions with community members who
  • are like-minded and understood what our costs were.
  • When we went out into the community
  • and explained to them about marriage equality
  • and about our lives and to make them understand
  • that this is a workplace right issue,
  • and that's where we need to focus our energies in the labor
  • community, people joined our coalition.
  • They understood the importance of it.
  • But it was really scary.
  • It was really hard work to convince 300,000 coal workers
  • in New York state that marriage equality was their issue.
  • But through a lot of hard work and some creative language
  • and a lot of drinking beer that I didn't particularly
  • care to do with a lot of tough union guys
  • and convincing them that this was the right thing to do,
  • we got the resolution passed through CSEA.
  • Once CSEA joined on board, AFL-CIO joined on board,
  • and then you saw SEIU and all the other unions
  • came in the fold, and it became a huge coalition.
  • Of course, there were other organizations
  • out there doing kind of the same work.
  • So we were partnering with ESPA.
  • We were partnering with Pride at Work.
  • We didn't have a chapter then.
  • We do now obviously, here in the Rochester area.
  • But through all those relationships that we built--
  • and relationship building is really
  • the most important thing--
  • that is what created the atmosphere or the climate
  • to get our legislative allies to vote yes.
  • Jim Alesi never would've voted for marriage equality
  • if CSEA wasn't on board.
  • I went to Jim Alesi many times and explained to him--
  • I go look, Jim, if you don't support this bill,
  • you will not get our support.
  • You will not get labor's support.
  • You cannot win your district without it.
  • But besides that, you know deep down inside,
  • this is something you need to do.
  • You know it's the right thing.
  • And he did vote for it.
  • Until he came out in support of this bill ahead of basically
  • the rest of the Republican senators,
  • this bill never would have passed.
  • But back in 2009, we got this through CSEA,
  • which was a huge hurdle.
  • And then the snowball effect happened.
  • All the other labor unions understood
  • that they need to pass resolutions as well.
  • But it was a hard fight because a lot of the people that
  • are in my union are Department of Transportation truck
  • drivers who--
  • fifty-something guys, they've already got twenty-five years
  • in, and, you know, they're just not real concerned with--
  • and I hate to be so critical, but they don't understand
  • how it would affect their life.
  • But once they understood that marriage equality is
  • a workplace rights issue, and if you come from that perspective,
  • then they understood the bigger picture.
  • And they would say, hey, an injury to one
  • is an injury to all.
  • And we need to fix this.
  • And that's what happened.
  • So that, I think people would appreciate that story
  • because it shows that this region played
  • a huge role in making change throughout the state.
  • I mean, and there are other instances as well.
  • But, you know, what Bess and I did through marriage equality
  • with getting these resolutions through state organizations,
  • it's behind the scenes work that most people don't know about.
  • It's not something that you go out there and blow your horn.
  • You just do the work and hope everything falls into place.
  • But it takes a cast of thousands to do this simultaneously
  • in order to work.
  • And again, all the other work that people did leading up
  • to the bill getting passed.
  • But labor's role in getting even SONDA passed in 2002 was huge.
  • Social change doesn't happen without working people
  • collectively organized who come together
  • and understand that they have some political clout in the way
  • that we govern ourselves.
  • And they have to exercise it.
  • And we do.
  • And it's principled.
  • And we need to do that.
  • Because it's what makes a better community.
  • It makes a better state.
  • It makes a better world.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • Well Kevin will listen to this and to what we've said.
  • That piece is-- you're correct in assuming that that's
  • the piece we wanted to talk to you about,
  • and your political activity here in Monroe County.
  • But it's also important for the documentary
  • to have the broader picture.
  • And you do have--
  • you have almost twenty years here.
  • And you've seen things change.
  • And you've seen things not change.
  • And you have a perspective that not many people have.
  • Because even though you're a very reflective person,
  • you think about what's going on.
  • OVE OVERMYER: Every day.
  • I'm a librarian.
  • I live to record history.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • And at the same time, you can look at it from above
  • and see a broader picture.
  • And both of those perspectives are very important and integral
  • to telling the story.
  • But those perspectives come out of your history.
  • They come out of who Ove Overmeyer is.
  • And even though-- you see, Brockport
  • is like outside of Rochester.
  • It's the hinterland--
  • OVE OVERMYER: I lived in Brockport for sixteen years.
  • I was born in the hospital there,
  • Lakeside Memorial Hospital on West Avenue.
  • And even though I played basketball and sports, that's
  • the only time I ever went to other communities
  • was when I was on a bus on a sports team.
  • I'd been to the city of Rochester
  • I think three times in my adult life
  • before I moved here in '93.
  • So this could have been Topeka, Kansas for all I knew.
  • I knew nothing of the city of Rochester
  • because this was not my existence.
  • I lived in a rural house, Cape Cod house, on a farm street,
  • on a farm road, on the outsides of a small college town.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • And that also has its insulating effects.
  • It also has the effect of having lived there moving
  • to a large metropolis like New York City can be splitting
  • in terms of, all of a sudden you're
  • not in control of your environment.
  • All of a sudden you have many, many, many more variables
  • to deal with and to negotiate.
  • OVE OVERMYER: And I have to say, though, I look back on my life.
  • I mean, I don't regret--
  • I made some bad choices like everybody else.
  • But I have to say though, it was always
  • an exciting time in my life.
  • I was very fortunate.
  • I was protected by great friends.
  • You know, I've made some bad choices, you know,
  • like we all do.
  • But it was an exciting time to make choices for myself.
  • And the idea of having opportunities
  • that were in front of me were just too good to pass up.
  • And I did take a lot of risks.
  • I succeeded a lot.
  • I failed a lot.
  • But those are experiences I would never--
  • I don't regret because they make me who I am today.
  • They make me the strong, solid person that I think I've become
  • and a good role model for the kids that I take care of.
  • So it's all part of my DNA.
  • It's made me who I am today.
  • And there was a time when I didn't feel integrated.
  • But I think when I moved to Rochester,
  • I became a more integrated person.
  • I became more comfortable with myself.
  • In New York, it was kind of hard because I was compartmentalized
  • in a way with a couple of different jobs,
  • and I was perceived differently.
  • And I was traveling in circles of people that, you know,
  • in business that was very difficult because they
  • put restraints on you.
  • But I didn't have that.
  • And I work in an environment at a library
  • where it's very inclusive.
  • I'm encouraged about sharing information
  • about people's lives.
  • Because after all, as a union representative,
  • I have to make people's lives better.
  • People come to me with problems, and I solve them.
  • I remedy things for people.
  • I give them resources.
  • I send it to the Gay Alliance.
  • I don't know how many--
  • I've had so many people come up to me at the library and say,
  • you know what?
  • I think I'm gay.
  • What do I do?
  • And I say, I'm glad you came to me.
  • Because I'm the person that can help you.
  • I mean, that happened to me more than a dozen times.
  • And people crying, concerned.
  • You know, young kids.
  • But they knew because I was open,
  • and I was honest with myself.
  • They respected me for that honesty and that openness.
  • I have a work--
  • I have a public job in the city of Rochester
  • that let me grow and be that person
  • so I could help others in their lives.
  • And to me, there's a huge reward there.
  • And it's helped me become a better person
  • and to become an integrated person,
  • and to feel good about myself, and to have a role
  • here in this community.
  • But I also want to say, is that the reason why
  • I think I looked at things objectively
  • is I've also been reporting on this community for ten years.
  • I don't think there's a--
  • besides Susan, there's a person that has met more people
  • and that has been to more events and has witnessed
  • our transition from the 2000s-- say the 1990s to the 2000s,
  • to the 21st century--
  • more than myself.
  • You know, I've written 140 column pieces, more than that,
  • for the Empty Closet.
  • I haven't numerically made them, but if you
  • go to EBSCOlife, which is a database of gay literature,
  • gay newspapers or gay information and resource
  • information, there's thousands, almost tens of thousands
  • of citations for articles I've written in the EC that
  • are in these databases for future historians
  • to look up our history here in Rochester.
  • So I take huge pride in the fact that I
  • was part of documenting Rochester's history
  • through a very, very interesting time.
  • Passing SONDA in 2002, the marriage
  • equality obviously just recently.
  • But chipping away at all these rights.
  • And getting to a point where people
  • feel more integrated in this community,
  • and their guards are down.
  • They can become themselves.
  • They're actualizing their lives, where they've never
  • been able to do that before.
  • People who are another generation that are still
  • living here that are in a gay relationship
  • or a same-sex relationship are looking back and saying,
  • well, this was inconceivable to me
  • that this would ever happen in my lifetime,
  • that people could actually marry and it's OK.
  • My neighbors wouldn't be throwing rocks at my windows.
  • Even though a little bit of that--
  • there's pockets where that does occur--
  • that this is happening to us.
  • And people understand our role in this world
  • and the gifts that we have and our importance.
  • You know?
  • I mean, not just to ourselves, but as what
  • we have to offer the community.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, the contributions
  • of the LGBT community to the city of Rochester,
  • to this region, are innumerable.
  • And they are significant because they have moved the benchmark,
  • and they have moved the agenda, whether it be the gay agenda
  • or another agenda.
  • OVE OVERMYER: Well, I'd like to think--
  • you know, it's been my personal understanding
  • of why I'm a Democrat and my identity, is to understand it
  • with the principles and the values in which I
  • see the world.
  • And I want a world of inclusion.
  • I want a world of opportunity.
  • I want these things to exist.
  • So therefore, I try to get out there.
  • I wake up every day, and I go out in the community
  • and try to act on that behalf.
  • And if that's becoming a good Democrat
  • and trying to convince people that democratic principles are
  • important in people's lives, I'll
  • pursue a political agenda that will get us to that place.
  • But it is about compromise.
  • It's about understanding that, how do we get from A to B?
  • But how do we remedy something that's do-able?
  • And to be that conciliatory person to get us to that place.
  • It requires an enormous amount of energy and skill,
  • but I'm committed to do that.
  • And I've always been committed to do that.
  • Politics gives me a way of doing that.
  • My union work gives me an ability to do that.
  • My family life gives me an ability to do that.
  • My community work gives me the ability to do that.
  • My work with the Gay Alliance as a volunteer here for almost
  • twenty years has given me an opportunity to do just that.
  • So that has-- all of those shared experiences
  • have made me the person I am today.
  • And it strengthens all of the things that I do.
  • It makes me a better person.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And it strengthens the community.
  • OVE OVERMYER: And I'd like to think it does.
  • But I'm just one of many, many people that do the same thing.
  • There's so many people in this community
  • that do the same thing.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But it is never the single drop of water.
  • It is the cumulative drops of water
  • that go into the bucket that make it overflow.
  • OVE OVERMYER: You're absolutely right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And so if you didn't do your piece,
  • if you didn't make that contribution,
  • there would be less water in the bucket.
  • OVE OVERMYER: I agree.
  • And my challenge has been to convince people just
  • to add their water (laughter) and stir (laughter).
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, thank you.
  • We'll get together again and--
  • so Ove.
  • OVE OVERMYER: Yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You got here in 1993.
  • OVE OVERMYER: Yes, I did.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Did you get involved with the Gay Alliance
  • immediately?
  • OVE OVERMYER: I did, immediately.
  • I was here recuperating because I lived in New York City
  • and was recuperating because I actually got hit by a car.
  • So I was here doing some physical rehabilitation.
  • And I picked up an issue of the Empty Closet.
  • And I said oh, there's a gay newspaper in Rochester.
  • That's great.
  • So I immediately submitted a letter
  • to the editor commenting on one of the news items.
  • Well, the day that it was published,
  • Susan Jordan called me and says, hey,
  • would you like to write for the newspaper?
  • And I said, well, I guess I have the time.
  • I just have a little transportation
  • issue because I was so banged up,
  • I had a hard time moving around.
  • But I took an assignment immediately.
  • She told me to go to the bookbinding
  • place on Monroe Avenue.
  • This is 1993.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Susan Soleil?
  • OVE OVERMYER: Susan Soleil was my first interview.
  • And I talked with Susan, and what a wonderful store she had.
  • I went upstairs, and I sat as she was working
  • at her desk binding books.
  • Because she was involved with the film festival,
  • which was in its third--
  • I believe it was in its one or two or third year or something.
  • I think the third year.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, the 20th is 2012.
  • So '92 would have been the first year.
  • OVE OVERMYER: So it was the second year
  • of the film festival.
  • So I interviewed her and a couple other people,
  • and I did a story about the film festival.
  • I mean, little did we know when we look back
  • that that was one of the first documentations of like, how
  • people were actually working on a common goal
  • to bring more people to Rochester to celebrate
  • our arts that we have here in this community
  • and just do something, you know, that today
  • is looked upon as one of the best things
  • that Rochester has to offer.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So you stayed.
  • OVE OVERMYER: I did stay.
  • There was a transition period where
  • I had property in New York.
  • But what happened is over time, I
  • was also going to the library a lot because I had free time,
  • and I was rehabilitating.
  • And they actually asked me to apply for a job at the library.
  • So I applied, and I've been working there ever since.
  • Well, I started with the Rochester Public Library
  • in 1997, and I've been working there ever since.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And you have a degree in--
  • OVE OVERMYER: I do.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Library science?
  • OVE OVERMYER: Master in library science.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: That you got before you came here.
  • OVE OVERMYER: Well, I got it as soon as-- well, yeah,
  • I took some classes at Buffalo.
  • I already had a masters when I came here in psychology,
  • believe it or not.
  • And I was working in the food and beverage
  • industry in New York.
  • And when I moved here, it was just a couple classes
  • at the school in Buffalo, which I took at night while I was
  • working at the public library.
  • Got my MLS.
  • And I guess the rest is history.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: When did you first
  • begin your political involvement in--
  • OVE OVERMYER: Well, my career, I guess you can say,
  • with politics started I think in the early 2000s.
  • I immediately-- in my neighborhood,
  • I live in the East End Monroe Avenue neighborhood.
  • And I was contacted by a few people.
  • One of them, Alan Richards, who at the time
  • was working for Empire State Pride Agenda,
  • asked me to become a committee member for the Monroe County
  • Democratic Committee.
  • So I went to a meeting, and they immediately
  • said, well, you're on our committee,
  • whether you like it or not.
  • So I was doing committee work with regards
  • to getting signatures for petitions,
  • for candidates, and getting involved in a political process
  • and getting to know the people, the lay of the land
  • here in Monroe County.
  • So that began around 2002.
  • But I would say I cut my teeth politically in 2005
  • when Tim Mains ran for mayor.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So you weren't here
  • for his previous campaigns?
  • OVE OVERMYER: No, I wasn't.
  • I met Tim probably right when I joined the Monroe County
  • Democratic Committee around 2002.
  • I knew of him.
  • I had no projects that I worked with him on or anything.
  • But I knew him socially.
  • But the first time that we became really good friends was
  • when he reached out to me and said,
  • look, I've got a lot of community backing.
  • This could be a good thing.
  • I'm going to announce to run for mayor.
  • I think it was February 11, I believe
  • was the press conference on the steps of City Hall.
  • And at that time, he had the majority
  • of the Democratic Party of Monroe County behind him.
  • Because there was no Robert Duffy announced.
  • He did not announce before then.
  • I think it was much after that.
  • And same thing with Wade Norwood.
  • They didn't announce until much later.
  • But at the time, Tim really had the consensus
  • of all the Democratic leaders in Monroe County.
  • But as you can see, we went through that really tough
  • primary process that people kind of peeled off and went
  • in different directions.
  • But I stayed with Tim.
  • And it was an incredibly eye opening experience.
  • I learned a lot.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Go back to New York.
  • Were you born in New York?
  • OVE OVERMYER: No, actually I was born in Brockport, New York,
  • which is in Monroe County.
  • But when I left Brockport when I was sixteen,
  • I went to college at Alfred University
  • and then transferred to Cortland College.
  • And then I graduated in 1979 and got a job
  • as a teacher in Eastport School District on Long Island.
  • So I lived on Long Island.
  • I was a volunteer firefighter in Westhampton Beach,
  • and I also worked for the mayor there.
  • I did a lot of political work for the village mayor, who
  • happened to be a gay person.
  • And that was back in 1980.
  • And I had a great time.
  • I lived on the beach, and it was the '80s.
  • It was the time of conspicuous consumption.
  • We did a lot.
  • We played hard and we worked hard.
  • It was a great time.
  • And then I found an opportunity about five years later,
  • and I had dual residency.
  • I was working in New York for Rusty Staub, who was a baseball
  • player for the New York Mets.
  • I bumped into him from a mutual friend.
  • And he asked me to manage his restaurant on Fifth Avenue,
  • which I did for a while.
  • So I was moving in pretty high circles there for a while.
  • And it was just--
  • I had great opportunities and I had a lot of fun,
  • but I spent a lot of time on the Long Island Railroad
  • and a lot of time on the Long Island Expressway going
  • from Manhattan to Westhampton Beach for about ten,
  • thirteen years.
  • So until I actually got-- had a bad accident in '93.
  • And that's why I moved here.
  • My brother suggested I come here and have
  • a rehabilitation at Strong Hospital, which I did.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: How involved were you
  • in the gay community in New York?
  • OVE OVERMYER: Well, you know, I supported
  • some gay friendly candidates in my neighborhood for office.
  • Because it's such a large city obviously,
  • it was a real interesting transition
  • moving here because for what a lot of I
  • think that I took for granted living in a large city
  • and then moving here is the way that people treated each other.
  • There was just much more respect,
  • I think, in a larger city with regards
  • to identity, especially gender identity and orientation.
  • Where here I was kind of taken aback by the way
  • that people were treated initially.
  • And it took me a while to understand it.
  • But most of my concerns when I was in New York,
  • I wasn't real politically active.
  • I was always consciously aware.
  • I worked on some national campaigns.
  • But most of the work that I did was supporting local candidates
  • in my neighborhood who ran for local office up in Harlem.
  • That's where I lived.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Harlem?
  • OVE OVERMYER: Mm hmm, 110th Street
  • over on the Upper West Side.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Hm (laughter)
  • I didn't know that.
  • I mean, I knew very little about your background
  • until two minutes ago.
  • OVE OVERMYER: Yeah, it's a little more diverse
  • than you would think.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • When you were growing up in Brockport,
  • did you know people who were gay?
  • OVE OVERMYER: Oh, I mean, some.
  • But you know what, I really didn't--
  • I was so excited about daily living that identity really
  • wasn't important to me at the time.
  • I was just having fun with my friends
  • and doing what felt good.
  • It was the '70s.
  • And I wasn't really concerned about labels or anything else.
  • And I had girlfriends.
  • I never had any boyfriends in the '70s.
  • I never really thought about or tried
  • to cognitively understand identity
  • until much later in life.
  • Because it really wasn't important early on.
  • I think that there was--
  • for the people that I associated with at the time,
  • it wasn't really a--
  • gender identity and sexual orientation
  • wasn't that big of a deal.
  • Until I got into like, some circles of friends
  • where it was, and that was when I started
  • to move in different circles with employment
  • and things of that nature where it mattered for some reason.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But when you were growing up, did you sense
  • there was any--
  • it would have been in the '60s, right?
  • OVE OVERMYER: My formative years were
  • the late '60s, early '70s, yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And so was the community--
  • not the gay community, but the Brockport community--
  • were they?--
  • OVE OVERMYER: Well, I have little-- no.
  • No.
  • As a matter of fact, I think--
  • I knew that there were some gay people in my class
  • when I graduated.
  • But no one was open, openly gay or lesbian or bisexual or
  • transgender.
  • But there were people, but we just didn't talk about it.
  • They didn't receive a lot of negative treatment.
  • But it wasn't something that was really talked about.
  • It was really-- you know, people kept to themselves.
  • It wasn't, you know, an issue because no one
  • wanted to be out there.
  • There was no advocacy going on.
  • I mean, there was no real gay rights feeling there.
  • That's for sure.
  • There was none of that.
  • Because we just didn't talk about it.
  • I think anybody who did self-identify
  • as gay or lesbian kept it to themselves.
  • And that's how they lived.
  • I mean, it just wasn't something you talked about.
  • I mean, I never really came out to my family.
  • You know, they just found out through friends
  • and conversation.
  • But it was never that big of a deal.
  • They probably, you know, said, well, why the hell isn't he
  • married yet?
  • Like seven of my other brothers and sisters were.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Did you have a vocabulary?
  • I'll explain that.
  • When we interviewed Whitey, Whitey
  • went to Atlanta to college.
  • And he was living with a partner and had friends.
  • But it wasn't until one of his friends went to Fort Lauderdale
  • and came back and said, I now know what we are.
  • We're queer.
  • OVE OVERMYER: Right.
  • Right right.
  • I would never use that term.
  • But I didn't self-identify as gay until probably, I'd say,
  • '85.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But back then, were there words to--
  • or was it just homosexual?
  • OVE OVERMYER: It was just homosexual, and that's it.
  • And I don't think it was meant anything other
  • than a clinical term to describe certain behaviors.
  • And I didn't hear it, I don't remember, as a kid.
  • Again, I left Brockport community when I was sixteen.
  • I was very, very young.
  • I mean, I went to college right when I-- just before I
  • turned seventeen.
  • So I don't remember much about my high school days
  • because I was an athlete.
  • I played basketball.
  • I played football.
  • I was twelve- letter athlete.
  • I was in student council.
  • I mean, I've never really had a problem with socialization
  • ever in my--
  • and I just assumed that most people probably didn't even
  • understand my orientation.
  • And neither did I at the time.
  • Because really, I wasn't acting as a sexual person.
  • I didn't have any girlfriends.
  • I didn't have any boyfriends.
  • I just-- it was the '70s.
  • And I guess, you know, not until alcohol
  • got involved did I actually probably consider
  • acting on some of my emotions.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • And when you went to New York, was there--
  • see, I'm trying to get a feel for that era,
  • in terms of what it was like for a gay person
  • or for a straight person to be in that period of time.
  • What was there a focus on being gay?
  • Or was it just--
  • I mean, '69, Stonewall happened.
  • OVE OVERMYER: Right.
  • Right.
  • Yeah.
  • I mean, there was conversations.
  • But most of my friends that I associated with were not gay.
  • I did not hang out with gay people.
  • I knew people who were gay, but I think the ones
  • that I did know were integrated certainly within the friends
  • that I had.
  • And I think most of the people that I associated with were--
  • most of them would call them intellectuals or academic type
  • people.
  • But there were artists.
  • A lot of them were athletes.
  • But were pretty smart people.
  • And I think they were very accepting.
  • So I think I lived in a kind of a bubble.
  • I don't think the way that I lived necessarily reflected
  • what was going on in society.
  • I certainly felt depressed.
  • The more that I understood my own identity--
  • obviously there was a transition period
  • where I had to really accept those facts.
  • And I was concerned about the people I cared about,
  • and how they treated me after when
  • I would self-identify as gay.
  • I remember my first--
  • there was this one guy in particular.
  • He was about seven years my junior.
  • He lived in Brooklyn.
  • And he pursued me for like six months.
  • He came out for a weekend vacation in Westhampton.
  • And he followed me around for--
  • I don't know, for months.
  • And I said, well I'm just not interested in a relationship.
  • But, you know-- and I think that would have been my first jump
  • to say, OK, well, now I'm in a relationship.
  • So now I'm self-identifying as gay.
  • And I'm acting like this.
  • And people will perceive me that way.
  • But I think for the longest time,
  • people didn't perceive me as gay because I
  • wasn't acting in a relationship, or I didn't have a partner.
  • Until I relented, until I said, you know what?
  • This is what I want to do.
  • And then we moved in together in New York.
  • And that was like '86, I believe.
  • That's when things started to change.
  • But because we lived with such a really,
  • an accepting neighborhood and--
  • well, it was great being part owners of a business,
  • because most of the people that I hired were gay.
  • So that was helpful.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: That helps.
  • OVE OVERMYER: It did help.
  • Because believe me, we understood, you know,
  • the concerns of New York at that time.
  • And again, I was living in New York at a time when there was--
  • obviously, AIDS was absolutely killing people left and right.
  • It was a very sad time.
  • But it also was a time when we had a lot of artists that
  • just were dying left and right.
  • And it was just leaving such a huge vacuum for most of us.
  • So it was a very traumatic time.
  • But we came together like no other time
  • I could ever imagine.
  • And my relationships with people in the '80s
  • still remain today, of the people who are still alive.
  • Most of them are not.
  • Most of my friends in the '80s have passed away.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I think we should
  • stop because it's five o'clock.
  • You have to get going.
  • But we'll have to schedule this--
  • OVE OVERMYER: I didn't realize you
  • were interested in my person.