Audio Interview, Paula Silvestrone, May 12, 2012
- EVELYN BAILEY: We're going to begin with the recording.
- But are you from Rochester?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Yeah, I grew up in Webster.
- And I went to college in Tampa.
- And then I went grad school.
- I was in San Diego for five years
- and then came back just really to kind
- of get a jump start my career because things
- were really rough in Southern California at the time.
- But there's no way that I'd stay in Rochester.
- Things took off, and--
- EVELYN BAILEY: And what was your degree in?
- What--
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: I had bachelor's in social work
- and a master's in counseling.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And with that, you were hired as--
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Well, I started out
- as a social worker in developmental disabilities
- at Arc of Monroe.
- And then I became more of a bit of a clinical position
- at De Paul Residential Group Homes and Apartments.
- And then I actually got a promotion there
- to program director.
- And that program grew very, very quickly.
- So I got lots and lots of good management experience
- and had a good mentor.
- And then an opening came up at the American Heart Association
- for executive director, and I went there.
- It was a nightmare, nightmare.
- It was horrible.
- It was-- really?
- You know you've got some--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I know people that have worked there.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Oh my God.
- Well, first of all, I mean, they were independent,
- the Rochester chapter.
- But I knew that they were requiring all the New York
- state chapters to merge into one chapter.
- But it wasn't done kindly.
- And the board members were treated poorly.
- The staff was treated poorly.
- I was treated poorly.
- It was just--
- And plus, the staff I inherited, they were all like--
- I had like eleven heterosexual women
- who had been there for like twenty years, who knew nothing
- but doing things the same way, who would backbite.
- I mean, they'd have these screaming cat fights.
- I'm like, what the fuck?
- You know?
- I couldn't stand it.
- I hated it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- Wow.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: So I lasted a year and a half,
- which was a year and a half too long,
- but I got advice to stick it out.
- And it was my stepping stone.
- When the whole thing hit the fan with Jackie--
- and I had always had a fascination with working--
- I wanted to work with AIDS Rochester, but--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Why?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: That's a really interesting question.
- I've always leaned pretty far left.
- So I was attracted to causes, I think,
- that really served oppressed people.
- I had had a lot of contact, especially through my theater
- activities, with gay populations and just felt
- some strong connections there.
- And it was obviously a population with a strong need.
- And people that obviously were committed to it
- were going to be pretty open-minded in many, many ways
- and certainly be open to the different types of people
- that they'd be serving.
- But interestingly-- and this part's off the record--
- when I worked at De Paul, Mary--
- what was Jackie's partner--
- Mary Lou Komarek worked there and--
- did you know her?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Were you friends?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: OK.
- Well--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Not very good friends, I mean--
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: I personally think
- she had a severe personality disorder.
- And she really could rile things up.
- I mean, she'd have group staff against the clinical staff
- against the clients.
- Like I said, I mean, it got crazy.
- And she left there on poor grounds
- and was suing agency the and then took a lot of people
- with her.
- And, oh my God, it was crazy.
- So I wanted to stay as far away from her as possible.
- And that was really the main thing.
- I mean, it sounded like there was
- some dysfunctional relationships going on over there,
- although I didn't really--
- I wasn't that close to know.
- So I didn't volunteer for that reason.
- But when the opening came up, well, as I said,
- I hated the Heart Association.
- I thought, I don't even want to be an executive director
- anymore.
- But if I do, there's two causes that I really
- could put my heart into, and that
- was Planned Parenthood and AIDS Rochester.
- And Planned Parenthood had just turned over.
- They had just gotten a new ED.
- And then when the position came up at AIDS Rochester,
- and there was all that crazy media and nuttsiness,
- I'm like, whoa, what's going on?
- I mean, people get fired every day.
- So what's going on?
- And I knew Mary Lou had to be at the center of it
- because that was her MO.
- And I'm like, I really don't want
- to go from the frying pan into the fire here.
- So I just held off.
- But I remember being at a fundraiser for Tim Mains
- and talking with Tim.
- And I met Tony Greene there.
- And it was four months later, and it was still open.
- And I'm like, well, you know, I might as well apply,
- go to the interviews.
- It's always good practice to interview.
- Well, I had one interview, and I got offered the job.
- Like, whoa, now what do I do?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Who interviewed you?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Bill Valenti, Lynn Friedman, and Hazel
- Jeffries, I think was the team.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And Hazel Jeffries--
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Hazel, yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: And so I did my list of pros and cons.
- And then I did my list of what I thought I was going to I
- need to be successful there and went to the three that
- offered the job.
- And I said, what I'm going to need
- is for you to really stay out of my way
- and let me make the changes I think need to happen.
- And the board needs to be professional.
- And we need to do that.
- And I said, "I will give it nine months of my life.
- I will give it everything I've got,
- and we'll see what happens from there."
- And they honored their word.
- I mean, they had already done the bulk of the work by--
- there was a big brouhaha with the board at the time where
- there was like the elections were overthrown,
- and all kinds of craziness went on.
- So they had already gotten some of the dysfunction
- off the board, not to say there wasn't still
- some left, but started professionalizing
- themselves and requiring that.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What year was this?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: 1989.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And can you give me or bring my head back
- to that era?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Oh, yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What was the picture
- of AIDS like at that time?
- I mean, for the community--
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: There was no treatment really.
- I don't think there was even a test yet.
- So people were just scared out of their minds, especially
- gay men.
- And they were dying.
- I mean, people would get symptoms, and they would die.
- That's it.
- So all we could do what make their quality of life
- as good as possible and do whatever
- we could to spread the prevention word
- and to support people because they truly were--
- all the stereotypes stories you heard
- were true where their families disowned them.
- And they weren't allowed to hold their nieces and nephews.
- And the trays were left outside their hospital rooms.
- And it was a very, very lonely place to be, very sad.
- And you couldn't help but have your favorites.
- Again, I think Tony Greene who gave me nothing but shit
- initially.
- I mean, he put me through the test.
- You can imagine.
- But, you know, we fell in love.
- He just basically said to me one time, "If I were heterosexual,
- I'd marry you."
- (laughter)
- We had great respect for each other
- because I think we had the same goals.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to touch on him just
- a little bit because we hear that from a lot of people
- about Tony.
- And I'm trying to get a sense--
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Did you know Tony?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I met him briefly just before he died.
- I met him at one of the HPA things
- down in Midtown, the the Dining for Dollar things.
- What was it about him that really made him
- such a force in the whole AIDS care and--
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: He had a really strong personality.
- He would not let up until he got what he wanted
- or what he thought was important, loud mouth.
- Like I said, wouldn't back off, but bright and personable.
- So the combination was powerful.
- Knew everybody in town.
- Because of his strong will, he was
- difficult to work with sometimes.
- You had to do it Tony's way or the highway.
- I mean, oh my God.
- One thing that's so sad is, until the day I left,
- Tony's mother and brother would call me and write me,
- "Where's Tony buried?
- Where's Tony buried?"
- His ashes, I guess.
- Because there became this rift between his parents
- and his friends.
- And he did not love his mother.
- His mother was pain in his side.
- And so I think this is his ultimate payback to her.
- And I just-- I mean, thank God I didn't
- know where he was because I could truthfully say,
- I just don't know.
- And I didn't want to know.
- But that was Tony.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I know where part of him is buried.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: You know what?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I know where part of the ashes are buried.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Oh, don't tell me.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, I'm not going to.
- (laughter)
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: And even his dying process was very Tony.
- I mean, he would joke.
- And he would say--
- I've got really awful pictures of him
- where he was just skin and bones literally.
- And he would throw off the blanket
- and say, "Take a picture of me.
- I want people to know what this is like."
- We named-- we developed a housing program that ended up
- being very successful without having to actually build
- a building.
- It ended up being better in the long run, I think.
- But we named it the Green House Program after Tony.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I seemed to remember that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: He had a tendency to be in your face.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Oh, yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But my sense--
- I mean, I observed him interacting with friends,
- with people who he knew who had AIDS.
- And as difficult as he might have been,
- the compassion and the strength of his belief that you're
- worthwhile.
- Regardless of the disease, you matter.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: And he was a good role model for that too.
- Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The Alliance has a very--
- well, it's now funny.
- It wasn't then.
- In one of our Empty Closet articles about HPA,
- we outed him as HIV positive.
- And he came to The Alliance.
- At that point, we were at Atlantic Avenue.
- And he said, "I'm going to sue you guys.
- You did this to me!"
- And Chic, I think, was president.
- And she said, "Now, Tony, calm down.
- Calm down.
- It was not intentional.
- We did not mean to do this.
- It just kind of came out,"
- Well, he did calm down.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: I'm surprised.
- (laughter)
- EVELYN BAILEY: And he became the poster child.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Yeah, he did really.
- Yeah, he did.
- And it was always difficult to find spokespeople
- in those days.
- And it's really one of the most effective ways
- to get the prevention message across
- was to show real people with HIV that people could relate to.
- And it was very difficult to get people
- that had decent communication skills that
- were willing to speak on camera especially.
- But, you know, you can stand up in front of people
- and spout off all the facts you want, and it just
- doesn't make the impact as when somebody with HIV
- stands up and says, it happened to me.
- I didn't think it could.
- It could happen to you.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And we didn't really
- have that at all until someone like Magic Johnson
- finally stepped up.
- And everybody went, oh, wow.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Well, especially
- on the heterosexual side.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: I mean, you had the Liberaces and Rock
- Hudsons that were kind of flamboyant cases,
- or extreme cases in some ways.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So when you took over AIDS Rochester,
- what was your biggest challenge?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: I think there were two that ran concurrent
- and were dependent on each other.
- One is changing the culture, professionalizing it
- at all levels, whether it was at the board level, staff level,
- client level, volunteer level.
- Everybody had bad habits--
- you know, no boundaries, none, zero, zip.
- Well, actually, remember we used to have that house
- over on Hayward Avenue.
- It was a duplex.
- And we had three gay men on each side.
- And one of them was on the board.
- And he wouldn't pay rent.
- He just didn't want to pay rent.
- And it was set up right by the government what amount of rent
- they had to pay.
- And it was like 20 percent of their income.
- So it was reasonable.
- And this person just, "I have to buy presents
- for my mother for Christmas."
- And I'm like, OK, work with me here.
- Can you pay me ten dollars extra month to get caught up,
- whatever.
- Wouldn't.
- And so I started making noise about evicting him.
- And he started telling lies to the board about me
- about the whole situation.
- And I could not defend myself because of confidentiality
- issues.
- And here, in essence, this is a person
- who's on a group of people who could fire me.
- So it just got so sticky sometimes.
- And eventually people just needed
- to learn that that kind of stuff didn't fly.
- But it was tough.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So two challenges--
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: OK, so there was the cultural challenge,
- in terms of cleaning things up, professionalizing it.
- The place just physically was disgusting when I walked in.
- People were smoking everywhere.
- It was dirty.
- And people looked like slobs.
- And they'd come to work when they wanted to.
- My feeling always was-- because ultimately we
- ended up in what were pretty nice offices.
- And actually I sometimes get criticized for that
- because they looked like we spent too much money on it,
- which wasn't the case.
- I was always somebody that was pretty
- good at cutting a good deal.
- And I believed that the people we were serving
- deserved the respect of a nice environment
- and of professional-looking and professional-acting people
- to serve them.
- I don't think that that meant that we
- had to put ourselves in some elite place
- that they couldn't relate to.
- But I just felt that that was respectful to the people we
- are serving.
- So that was a big shift.
- And the other was simply financial and getting us
- to a point where we could survive because we were
- in a hole when I took over.
- And a lot of people were waiting for their bills to be paid.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Talk a little bit about the funding,
- the federal response, the state response,
- the community response, in terms of financial support.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Well, the state, especially at the time,
- was probably our biggest asset.
- And they really poured big money into AIDS
- for a number of years.
- Actually one of the challenges was--
- they would throw big chunks at us big grants
- so often that it was hard sometimes
- to keep up with the growth, both in terms
- of administrative infrastructure and just
- hiring and training and getting those programs off the ground.
- Of course, that came to a screeching halt
- eventually, about ten, fifteen years later.
- And they were fairly progressive in a lot of ways.
- On the other hand, their bureaucracy grew very quickly.
- I mean, what blows me away is that the AIDS Institute didn't
- exist in 1983.
- And by the time I took over, I think
- they had 400 employees or something all needing something
- from you.
- That's what burned me out the most,
- I think, was the government requirements,
- the ridiculousness of them, and some of the politics involved.
- But they're what kept the money flowing.
- The feds-- we didn't have any direct federal money.
- We had federal money that came through the state.
- Ryan White obviously had a big impact,
- and that funded a lot of different things, which
- was helpful.
- But where I really saw a change, and it
- was more of a political change and a funny change
- because when George Bush, the second George Bush,
- got into office, and he started what we heard--
- well, I don't know if it was a Jesse Helms thing or what.
- I can't remember-- but that no materials or no prevention
- education could be put out there that promoted homosexuality
- or drug use.
- Pretty difficult thing to interpret.
- But he was interpreting it pretty conservatively,
- obviously.
- And so they would create this whole huge system
- where any material you used or any speech you used
- or any film you used had to go through this review board.
- And how do you not talk about those things
- and do HIV prevention?
- So politics made of a big difference in that field.
- Locally, we got a little bit from Monroe County Health
- for a little while, but there was politics at the county
- too because I had set up the syringe exchange program.
- And Bob King was the county guy at the time,
- and he wasn't at all happy with me.
- And the Republicans weren't at all happy with me.
- And we actually had someone on our board
- who was in the legal department at the county who
- said, whenever your little 40,000 dollars mental health
- grant comes up, they go into executive session,
- and the Republicans say, is there
- any way we can prevent this money
- from getting to AIDS Rochester?
- We don't want them to have it.
- That's how much of a grudge they held.
- But they weren't going to be a big source for us anyway.
- Medicaid eventually became a big source in terms of billing
- for case management.
- And one of the first things I did was apply to United Way
- here.
- And we actually also applied to United Way of Steuben County
- and became member agencies of both.
- And I think that was huge because, in this community,
- obviously, United Way is huge.
- And it was kind of a stamp of recognition
- that we were a part of the mainstream now.
- So that was huge.
- And we end up getting some decent chunks of money
- from them.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And what was the relationship
- that AIDS Rochester had with the HPA?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Well, it was grants.
- I mean, you had to apply every year
- and tell them what you wanted to use the money for and follow
- their rules, and they kept changing as HPA evolved.
- At one point, it was pretty much CHN and us
- who share most of the money.
- But there were a lot of other players starting to get
- involved in AIDS after a while.
- And it started getting really divvied up, I think,
- into a lot smaller piles.
- But at one point, actually, CHN and--
- the event was kind of dying.
- And CHN and AIDS Rochester approached HPA
- and said, why don't we take it over?
- We've got the resources to maybe keep
- the event going or re-energize it or whatever.
- And they weren't interested at the time.
- So unfortunately, that seemed to die a slow death after that.
- I mean, what an amazing thing that they did though
- in their prime.
- My God, the event was amazing.
- It really kept people's emotions,
- I think, involved in the cause, a great gathering every year
- everybody seemed to look forward to.
- Can I get water?
- (unintelligible) Sorry.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm going to ask you this when she gets back.
- So it'll give you some time to think about it.
- But I want you to kind of define for me core mission of AIDS
- Rochester because I know it was very different
- than the core mission of CHN and the core mission of HPA.
- We're trying to get kind of a clear understanding of,
- we had all these different agencies
- doing different things.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Absolutely.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So where are you now?
- Are you just retired?
- Wow, how fun for you.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: It is.
- It really is.
- I did not think I'd be one of those people
- that it would be a big adjustment
- for because everybody said it was.
- Because a year earlier, I had been out two or three
- months with back surgery.
- And I really enjoyed my time once the pain
- was under control.
- The first year was tough.
- And I think partially was I was so wiped out from the merger.
- I mean, the job itself had gotten
- really tough with funding.
- And then the whole merger was just
- like doing five jobs at once.
- And emotionally difficult because there's so many
- people reacting to so many changes.
- And making sure that I advocated for what I thought
- was going to keep the agencies strong.
- So I think I was just holding on.
- And then it didn't just go away on January 1st.
- (unintelligible)
- EVELYN BAILEY: That's all right.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Thank you so much.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You're welcome.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I was going to ask
- her this when you came back.
- Kind of just describe for us the core mission
- of AIDS Rochester because it was different than what
- CHN was doing and HPA, and they were all different things.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: There were really two facets.
- One is to provide support services--
- in other words, anything that the medical almost,
- making sure all that was in place for people,
- and also to make sure that the medical was in place
- and that it was ongoing, that people
- were going to appointments, that they were
- able to take their medications.
- But oftentimes, with people with HIV,
- especially as the disease evolved more and more
- into the impoverished populations,
- HIV was almost the last priority in terms of what they needed
- to address in their lives.
- If they didn't have food, if they have telecare,
- if they didn't have a roof over their heads,
- if they were getting beat up, if they had a substance abuse
- problem, then who's going to worry
- about getting to the doctor for their HIV or even getting HIV?
- So making sure all of that was in place for people
- and their lives stable enough so that they could pay attention
- to their medical care.
- And being the link with the medical providers also.
- And then the whole prevention continuum,
- and that started out with a lot of HIV 101,
- which eventually became obsolete pretty much because the schools
- were doing it.
- And by then, everybody pretty much
- knew how you did and didn't get HIV.
- So it was more really concentrating our efforts
- on the most at-risk populations.
- And that was one thing that drove me a little crazy about
- the state is they kind of went through this
- population-of-the-year thing.
- And that's where they'd be throwing money.
- So obviously, it was on the gay population initially.
- But then it became migrants.
- And then it became women.
- And then became something else.
- And we're like, that's all good, but they
- would take it away or just ignore the fact
- that it was still hugely an epidemic with gay men
- and needed to stay concentrated on it
- because we saw it backsliding.
- So I think the AIDS Rochesters of the state
- were called CSPs, or community service programs,
- as kind of the state designation for them.
- We were very well organized.
- And we were all the original AIDS providers.
- And so we, I think, were a good strong advocacy voice
- for the gay population all along, even as a lot of money
- started getting thrown toward the minority
- community-based organizations.
- And everybody in the world started getting in on HIV.
- I hate to be cynical, but when there's money out there,
- that's going to attract every other service
- provider in the world.
- And it really started getting fragmented, I think.
- And we could not, can not let up our focus,
- on especially the gay male population since they continue
- and have always been at very high risk.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm interested in your opinion on how
- AIDS care and awareness moved from a health
- initiative to almost a political initiative,
- of how it actually kind of propelled
- some of the gay activism--
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: True.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: --that we now see.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: True.
- Yeah, I mean, I don't want to use the words silver lining
- because that's too positive of a word for AIDS
- brought to this world.
- But it certainly did gel the gay community
- and gel the gay activism.
- But from the start, I mean, Reagan's administration
- really did ignore the problem and allowed
- it to flourish unfortunately.
- And The Band Played On, I think, speaks to that beautifully.
- But then after that, Bush's policies that I talked about,
- the whole sensitivity around syringe exchange.
- And that is all political.
- It has nothing to do with good public health.
- And we're constantly beating the drum for.
- But this is what's going to keep people alive.
- And this is what's going to keep--
- if you don't care about keeping these people alive,
- which was just part of the problem
- because some people thought let the gays and the druggies
- die off.
- That's fine with me.
- Well, it's going to cost you a lot.
- And you know what?
- It could happen to your son.
- It could happen to your cousin.
- It could happen to you.
- (laughter)
- But constant education and advocacy was necessary.
- You don't have that in heart disease or kidney
- disease or all worthy causes.
- But that extra element of having to fight
- for what was right against some pretty
- conservative principles in this country is an ongoing battle.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did you have any interaction with ACT UP?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: No.
- I don't know that there was a local chapter.
- EVELYN BAILEY: There was.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Was there?
- It must have kind of died off by the time I came along.
- The only-- actually this is kind of fun.
- I went to the International Conference
- on AIDS in San Francisco in 1990,
- early 1990, so shortly after I was hired.
- And Tony Greene went, too.
- And ACT UP was really acting up out there.
- So that was a lot of fun to see.
- (laughter)
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: You know, also,
- and I don't know how much this is politics.
- It's just people's natural fears.
- But when we actually did try to build an apartment building
- on the corner almost of Winton and Merchants.
- And we looked for a site for years
- and finally actually were steered toward that site
- by the city but had to make some zoning changes.
- And I went in door to door with--
- Do you remember Zane?
- I can't even remember his last name now.
- He was--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Zane?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Very involved in the gay bowling tournament.
- A quieter Tony Greene, a lovely man.
- I go door to door with him.
- And people would say right to his face,
- I don't want you here.
- So we ended up losing in the zoning hearing.
- And it was from neighborhood pressure.
- Same thing, the neighborhood got organized over this.
- And it was actually very scary for me
- because there's nothing more personal to people
- than when you're going to move in next door to them.
- And there was a very, very, very heated public meeting
- at East High.
- I remember, one time--
- always it was very hot.
- It was a very hot summer day.
- And I was standing up there.
- And people were grumbling and mumbling,
- and you could see the anger on their faces.
- And a fist fight broke out in the back.
- And there was some big guy sitting in the front row.
- And he just kept mumbling, mumbling, mumbling.
- And then I heard him say at one point,
- "We're coming out to Shore Drive," which is where I live.
- And I got some threatening phone calls.
- And I have not had my address listed in the phone book since.
- (laughter) It was kind of personal.
- And the same with needle exchange, not quite where I
- felt like my life was threatened,
- but I was accused of committing genocide
- because I was going to be handing out syringes
- to their people.
- And I'm like, no, I'm trying to save them.
- (laughter)
- What are you doing?
- And I think that program is the one
- I'm proudest of because I really think it's the most blatantly
- effective program that such a quick change in statistics.
- And it was clearly--
- whenever I would struggle with an issue like that
- and I was having a lot of political pressures
- and even some people that were prominent in the gay community
- sometimes would have their own opinions
- and would pressure me to go a certain route with something,
- I would just go home.
- And I would think, what is the right thing to do?
- And my heart was the right thing to do.
- And then I was always able to proceed from there
- and do what I thought was really right for who we were serving.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I was going to ask you
- about that because here you are, a woman, and all
- of what that means in this society,
- working for a cause that certainly had
- immense proportional dimensions of health involved,
- people's lives involved, yet such opposition at times
- and such criticism and such constant barrage of need
- on one side, criticism and hate on the other,
- how did you maintain?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Martinis.
- (laughter)
- I'm not altogether kidding.
- (laughter)
- EVELYN BAILEY: And why did you maintain with the martinis?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Yeah, why did I stick it out?
- How I maintained really is that I always
- was able to come back to that I was doing the right thing.
- I mean, one of the beauties of the way AIDS Rochester
- was set up and the services that we provided
- is we saw the people we served in the halls every day,
- not all of them.
- But we had enough lunch programs and groups and this and that
- that the people came there.
- And I got to know them.
- So it's easier to be passionate about something
- when you have a connection with the people that you're serving.
- And I just felt so strongly that these people
- needed a voice in a society that could so easily cast them off
- and want them dead.
- So it was really easy for me to get behind that
- and stay behind that.
- That part was easy.
- It was never the clients that gave me heartache.
- It was always those barriers that
- were created to keep me from getting them what they needed,
- which was often government.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: In your twenty years there,
- can you identify a given moment or a given time
- where it really dawned on you, OK,
- I'm really fulfilling a need here,
- or I'm really doing some good here?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: I'd have to go back to the syringe exchange
- program because, I mean, there were plenty
- of moments like that, plenty.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Let me ask you another way.
- When, in your twenty years, did you realize, yeah,
- this is where I want to be, this is the work that I
- need to be doing?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: I felt it since day one.
- It just always felt like a fit for me, always.
- I'd had that one job that maybe that's a good thing
- to happen in everybody's life because then you
- know what to compare life to.
- The people around me--
- I mean, it was nice to be a private nonprofit where
- I had control over the hiring so that I
- felt like we could hire quality people,
- and we could get out people that didn't gel with what
- we were trying to do there.
- And I really felt that from the very beginning.
- The fight was in me.
- It's kind of interesting, Evelyn, you bringing up
- my being a woman.
- I'm also a white heterosexual woman,
- which didn't fit everybody's idea of who should
- be in that leadership position.
- And one of the first--
- I went to actually to the victory thing
- for Tim Mains' city council election or something downtown.
- And a couple of women came up to me.
- Oh, I know.
- I had been interviewed by the Empty Closet.
- And they had asked what my sexual orientation was,
- and I told them.
- And, for me, it was just something factual.
- And I knew that people were curious about it.
- And I knew that people we're going to be talking about it so
- let's just get it out there.
- It is what it is.
- It's nothing I'm proud of.
- It's nothing I'm ashamed of.
- It just is.
- And two women came up to me and said,
- "We hear you're flaunting your heterosexuality. " I'm like,
- OK, let the fun begin.
- (laughter)
- So I had to prove myself at every turn.
- It's kind of interesting because physically I'm a small person.
- I was very young then to be in such a position.
- And I had to prove myself, but I have a strong personality.
- And I think that sometimes people would initially,
- especially--
- I hate to say this-- but heterosexual men in power
- would think that they could bull right over me.
- And it was like, just wait till little chihuahua gets busy.
- Your ass in the grass.
- And they'd find out real quickly what they were messing with.
- Because what I feel felt strongly and passionately
- about something, I just went after it.
- But back to syringe exchange for a minute--
- when we were deciding whether to do syringe exchange or not
- and that--
- whew!-- really brutal political battle that that entailed,
- I went down and visited one in the Bronx.
- And I was just sitting there observing.
- And there's all these people lined up.
- And there are mothers with their strollers.
- And they're all just--
- they were very polite.
- They were very grateful for what people were doing for them.
- And I thought this is everybody's daughter
- and son and sister and mother.
- And these are all people of value
- that we were just trying to give them the tools to stay alive
- and to not make them feel like the piranhas of the world.
- And so they kind of clinched my commitment to it.
- And one time, when I was over at our syringe exchange program,
- this woman came in and said, this is the only place in town
- that anybody will look me in the eye.
- And that just meant so much to me.
- I mean, they were people that were loved and valued
- by our staff and our volunteers, and they
- don't get that anywhere else.
- And if you expect people to change their lives around
- or even just to have any kind of human compassion,
- it's a no brainer for me.
- I also sat at many bedsides.
- And it's like, you know what?
- All the paperwork, all the shit with the state,
- it's worth it if I'm easing this person's transition.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: You've touched upon this a little bit,
- but I think there's room to explore it more about how,
- since the inception of AIDS Rochester to today's
- modern society, how things have changed for AIDS care and AIDS
- awareness.
- And there's a reason why all of a sudden
- the AIDS agencies had to merge together.
- I know you've been out of it for three years now.
- But--
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Saw the writing on the wall.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: How did things change?
- Yeah.
- What was the writing on the wall?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Well, as I said, initially,
- all we could really do is help people to die.
- And fortunately-- I mean, I wish I could convey to people--
- you guys saw it-- what happened in the mid-nineties
- when the medications came out.
- I was blown away.
- I mean, it truly was miraculous.
- I mean, we saw people come back from the dead, clearly,
- that are still alive today.
- So that was awesome.
- And medical science is only advanced, fortunately,
- not fast enough.
- But we continue to make gains.
- And eventually, I think the funders have caught up
- with that and said, all of our prevention,
- everything really now is centered around medical,
- not support as much.
- I mean, that has to happen too because people
- aren't going to get the medical unless they get the support.
- You're not going to prevent HIV unless they're
- getting the support.
- But the medical just became so much more of a focus
- and so much more of a key that we had to align ourselves
- much closer with that.
- And that's what was the right thing to do.
- EVELYN BAILEY: In your twenty years at AIDS
- Rochester, was there ever a time that the gay community became
- unsupportive of your work, of your efforts?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: I would say that the interest waned
- a little bit.
- And I think that was a national phenomenon.
- It was kind of AIDS fatigue.
- In the beginning years, we shouted,
- and we ranted, and we had meetings,
- and we set up services, and we sat by bedsides,
- and we went to fundraisers.
- And we did all of that, and it was very dramatic.
- Actually, I think maybe around the same time
- the medications started making people live longer,
- helping people live longer, people were like,
- OK, well, we're kind of done with that now.
- And it also wasn't just a gay disease anymore.
- It became very much a disease in minority populations and women
- and heterosexuals, so it wasn't the gay man's gig anymore
- solely.
- So that and the whole fatigue, I think, just the interest waned.
- Fund raising became a little harder.
- But we couldn't keep going back to the same pot anyway.
- We needed to get more sophisticated and more utilized
- and bring in the rest of the world to our efforts.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm kind of out of questions actually.
- But--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I still have a few, but--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I've got a couple to wrap things up.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Can you speak to how you personally feel about--
- we certainly have medications, but the numbers
- aren't going down.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: No.
- And people are still dying.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And so what would you say to a young person
- today in the community about AIDS,
- and how would you help them understand that they
- don't want to get sick.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: You know, that's
- the biggest challenge in the world
- because youth are invincible.
- And it doesn't matter whether it's driving a car too fast,
- whether it's teen pregnancy, whether it's STDs,
- or whether it's AIDS.
- I mean, a lot of those, the same behavior
- causes all of those, all those things that (unintelligible).
- And that's one reason we had a big resurgence
- in the gay population.
- I mean, I think that we had huge numbers of gay men dying off
- at once.
- Most of the others learned their lesson
- and kind of started changing their behavior.
- We made some huge gains there.
- But then a whole population of gay youth came up.
- And they didn't go through that.
- So it was harder to get the message across.
- And it's not something that you want to live with.
- And you may not live with it.
- You may die of it.
- As a matter of fact, chances are good
- because, even if the disease isn't killing people,
- the medications are probably maybe killing people
- more often or as often.
- And it's not fun to live with HIV from the side
- effects of the disease as well as the side effects
- of the medication.
- And I don't know what--
- I mean, if we had a magic bullet as to how to change behavior,
- boy, I'd be all over it.
- I mean, who of us has not put ourselves
- at risk for all kinds of stuff in this life?
- It's a tough nut to crack, but you don't want it.
- People are still saying, look at Magic.
- Well, Magic maybe had some lucky breaks.
- People don't understand all the intricacies, all the science.
- He might have had as big a dose of the virus.
- He may not have had as virulent of strain of the virus.
- He's obviously had the best medical care in the world.
- He's obviously been able to be compliant with his regimen.
- But I bet, if Magic were honest, it's not peaches and cream
- living with this disease.
- And it still may get him.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So in the end, how do you keep going?
- How do you keep working and continually
- attempting to change the attitudes and the behavior?
- Where do you go to find that piece, either within yourself
- or within the community, that--
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Well you do it
- on a number of different levels.
- One is certainly person by person by person,
- the kid you meet on Monroe Ave, the young guy in the gay bar,
- the bathhouse, wherever.
- One thing that's interesting about AIDS
- is, because it's fairly new to the human services scene
- and it was such a dramatic thing that
- call for a drastic response, services
- were set up and delivered differently
- than they were with other human services.
- So we've always been pretty good at taking our services
- and finding the people that need them as much as possible,
- finding those at risk--
- truckstops, parks, wherever, streets--
- and just person by person and making a difference.
- I know that we've made a difference.
- I mean, we could look like some of the countries in Africa
- if we hadn't had that pretty strong prevention
- efforts that we've had here.
- But you can't let up.
- And then the other piece of it is always
- the advocacy at governmental and policy levels,
- is always keeping of that and not letting us backslide.
- God knows what will happen to AIDS where
- Governor Romney or someone like him gets into the presidency,
- and just the only way is to behave yourself.
- It doesn't work.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Comparing Rochester to other cities
- around the nation in response to the AIDS
- crisis, what is your opinion in how we responded to it.
- I mean, I'll leave at that.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Much more supportive
- than I think most cities our size, especially
- because, as I said, I was in a tight coalition with my peers
- across upstate New York.
- So the fact that we were a United Way member
- agency with a good chunk of money from them
- was highly unusual.
- The fact that we had HPA, that we had a very strong support
- from a very strong gay community was always very helpful to us.
- And I would hope that our clients could feel that too,
- that they had--
- we always had good volunteer response also.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Any opinion as to why it was like that here
- in Rochester.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: You know, it was funny
- because I always hear people say that Rochester
- is a conservative city.
- But for a city our size, I don't necessarily agree.
- I mean, why do we have a bigger gay population?
- There must be some greater level of acceptance here.
- There's certainly some pretty well-known churches
- that have been willing to stick their neck out and do whatever
- they needed to do to support the population
- against some public opinion.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Who initiated, or did the AIDS sponsors have
- any involvement in getting-- well,
- I know involvement in getting condoms at the bars,
- but condoms in schools?
- Did we ever get condoms in the schools?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: I don't think so.
- I think that they're still talking about it.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, I mean, I wasn't sure of myself.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Yeah, and prisons--
- that was another area that I think really,
- another nut that needs to be cracked big time.
- Another tough one--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Since they're not supposed to be having sex.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Right.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: It's always the solution that doesn't work.
- Just don't do it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Let me get back to Kevin's question
- about Rochester versus other cities similar in size,
- other areas of the country.
- Because you were in a statewide consortium
- and had a vantage point of observation,
- how did New York, for example, the state,
- compared to Chicago, Illinois; Miami, Florida; California, San
- Francisco, what was your perception
- about the response to this epidemic that was ravaging?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Well, as I said, New York state, I think,
- did a decent job of pouring a good amount of money
- into the disease initially.
- I think California probably did too.
- I'm not as familiar with that.
- And the cities like New York and San Francisco, I mean,
- they were just so out of our ballpark
- in terms of what they were experiencing.
- I always said I couldn't even imagine
- doing AIDS work in a city like New York
- because it was so out of control and because they
- have the New York City politics which were so intense.
- And New York City had high numbers too.
- So it warranted the extra effort.
- And I think our high numbers were somewhat based on the fact
- that New York City had high numbers, and we're so close,
- and there's so much interaction.
- That's certainly where the first cases
- seem to come from in this area.
- But I do think--
- I don't know.
- I just feel like, for a city our size
- anyway, that we had a much better organized gay community
- and more activists.
- And I think that that really, really helped.
- And Jackie caused a lot of heartache towards the end.
- Trust me.
- That was another challenge of mine.
- I had like eight lawsuits to clean up.
- It took years.
- But she was a colorful character.
- And she put it out there.
- She was out there, and she was fighting.
- And she was loud, and she was heard.
- And the media loved her just because she
- was such a colorful character, I think,
- that we got more exposure probably
- than in a lot of towns.
- So I think that she was the right person
- for the job initially in that she got the word out
- there really well.
- She was a good grassroots activists.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Can ask this in two ways?
- Where do you see the fight for AIDS awareness,
- prevention, and care going from this point on?
- Or is it a different fight?
- Is it a different way of approaching
- the needs that are out there?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Well, I think the fact
- that things kind of turned toward really
- focusing on the highest risk populations
- is really important.
- And that needs to keep up.
- And the fight with policy issues needs to keep up.
- I mean, what we're saying is we need
- to make the tools available to keep people
- safe in any environment where people may put themselves
- at risk, whether it's schools, whether it's prisons,
- whether it's in parks, whatever.
- So there's always going to be those fights.
- And then just the ongoing fight for funding.
- And then again, if you get conservative politicians
- at any level, we can take five steps back overnight.
- So we can't let down the vigilance.
- But because we're talking about the history with the gay
- population, I've always said, we cannot let our guard down.
- We pay for it if we do.
- And we keep seeing new generations of gay men come up.
- And we cannot let history repeat itself with them.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: To sum it all up, kind of a similar question
- as before, but what are you most proud of in what you've done?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Surviving.
- (laughter)
- I always said, I was a long-term survivor myself.
- And not ending up in AA.
- (laughter)
- That's a delicate balance.
- I think my advocacy overall.
- The two things that were the toughest battles for me
- were the housing initiative and the syringe exchange battle.
- And I lost at one level, although that took us
- in a new direction, which ended up
- being a success and one at another level which
- I think really, really helped this community.
- But I think just always being an advocate
- and feeling strongly for the people I was serving.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I have nothing.
- EVELYN BAILEY: No more questions, Kevin?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: No, I really don't.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What's next for you?
- Are you retired?
- Are you--
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: I am.
- I am.
- I may have to go back to work, but it
- would have to be go back to work because my husband starting
- to get tired of working.
- You know, this sounds really weird for a pretty liberal
- feminist.
- But I never got to be June Cleaver.
- So I'm doing a lot of that.
- I'm really enjoying that, just taking care of our home
- and making my husband's life easier.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you have children?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: No.
- It's kind of maybe more of a Buddhist or zen philosophy
- but just learning to be more.
- I mean, I lived a pretty frenzied existence
- for those twenty years.
- And it took its toll in some ways and really kind
- of learning to smell the roses again and take care of myself.
- And it feels like a very self-indulgent time of my life.
- And I'm trying to be OK with that.
- It's not easy.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Given all of your experiences
- in not only counseling, executive director,
- what would you say to women today
- about living their lives as they are, as who they are?
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: You mean apart from HIV,
- like as a career and going for what you
- what you want to go for?
- Well, you kind of said it pretty succinctly right there.
- And actually, again, that's what I'm kind of experiencing.
- It's like, why should I feel at all
- guilty I want to be like a content little house wife
- right now and support my husband in his very difficult work?
- I shouldn't.
- Women have struggled with that, the off-and-on thing.
- Which is more valuable, staying at home or the kids
- or getting out there and working?
- And they all have value.
- It's really a matter of being true to yourself.
- But I also think the strength that I had to find in to myself
- to be successful as I was in my career
- is also another message, which is, you can do it.
- Go for it.
- Have confidence in yourself.
- Dig into your heart and know what
- the right thing is for you and the people around you
- and go for it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Thank you.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: I mean, I think that I was in jobs where
- there was sexual discrimination, where
- I felt like I was being held back because of my gender.
- It was a bit of an all-boys game.
- And it's really kind of fun because I
- have run into that executive director
- since, and he said, well, you know,
- I kind of wish we'd promoted you.
- I'm like, yeah, well--
- I know.
- (laughter)
- So you just have to go for it.
- Keep looking until you find it.
- I feel so fortunate that I found my spot in life.
- It really was the right place.
- It was a place I would walk into work every day
- and just feel comfortable.
- The work itself sometimes really stressed me
- out, but in terms of the people I was surrounded with,
- I just felt so comfortable.
- I mean, again, that was another positive thing,
- if you can call it that, about AIDS that they brought together
- such a diverse group of people that normally would not
- have been brought together.
- And there was little to no judgment.
- I mean, AIDS leveled the field.
- And it didn't matter what your gender, your age,
- your sexual orientation, nothing, your behavior--
- it just didn't matter.
- And everybody that came there to help fulfill the mission
- had to feel the same way.
- So it was a pretty special place to be.
- Sometimes when like a Matthew Shepard thing would happen
- or you hear what goes on in the real world, I would be shocked.
- And I'm ashamed to admit that.
- But on a daily basis, I lived in a bubble.
- And I surrounded myself socially with the same kinds
- of people that were non-judgmental
- and that were accepting and that were progressive.
- And so when horrible, hateful things
- happened based on sexual orientation with that
- still happening, that would kind of blow me away sometimes.
- And I don't know.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I think those of us who
- live in this little Northeastern part of the country
- live in a little bit of a bubble.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: You can.
- Yeah.
- It's funny.
- When Paul and I went out west, and we went to Yellowstone,
- traveled around a bit.
- And we ended up in Laramie.
- We went into McDonald's, and I said, "Paul,
- they kill gay people here."
- He goes, "Shh!"
- (laughter)
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, in the years
- that I have been involved with The Alliance
- and involved the gay community, I came out in Rochester
- in 1976-77.
- AIDS Rochester, ACHN, or CHN as it was originally--
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Actually, it was something else before that.
- It was something else even before CHN.
- I don't remember, but anyway they kept changing names.
- EVELYN BAILEY: It was the clinic on South Avenue.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Yeah, I was wondering
- if their name was different.
- Maybe that was that.
- OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: At least my perception
- is that they have always been the pillars around which
- the community came and really not only
- coalesced but became unified.
- I don't think that was separate from the leadership involved
- in those efforts.
- Your nonjudgmentalness, CHN's nonjudgmentalness,
- both of you come with the same heart and the same mind.
- And the community saw that.
- They may, at times, have disagreed with you intensely
- and told you, this isn't what you should be doing,
- or you should be doing this.
- But the effort that was made to reach out to help, to support,
- to take care of overrode all of those disagreements.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: That would have been my personal goal.
- So I thank you for that.
- That means so much.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The other thing that I
- think the merger has done is it has solidified the separation
- of parts of people.
- We're not feeling here and body there.
- We're--
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: It always made sense theoretically.
- It never was the right time until recently to actually make
- it happen.
- And part of that was leadership and financial condition
- and all of that because it was talked about many, many years
- ago too.
- But we were just pulling ourselves out of difficulty.
- And CHN was in difficulty, so it wouldn't
- have been a stable ship.
- And also, Jay and I are very, very different.
- But he's a good businessman.
- And he's done so much for that agency
- in terms of stabilizing them and making sure
- that they're going to be healthy in the future,
- that it was a good time.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Talk to me just a little about Bill Valenti.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Bill.
- Well, it started out with him hiring me.
- So I'll always be grateful for that.
- But as we tried to work together initially,
- he had some pretty strong ideas as to how it should happen.
- And I had different ideas.
- So we butt heads a little bit.
- It wasn't easy.
- So it actually was somewhat easier as different leadership
- came through ECHCS.
- Of course, it depended on who-- there
- were some great ones there.
- But I think Bill's mellowed as he's gotten older too
- and was more open.
- We're good buds.
- He has expressed his gratitude ultimately
- that I was the one that ended up in that job and stuck it out
- and saw all that I could see.
- But I know that Bill has done so much.
- Bill is such a public presence.
- And that's been helpful in the community, his voice
- and his expertise.
- But I know so many people, one on one,
- that have been helped by Bill and helped through whatever
- they've been going through.
- And I have a lot of respect for him.
- One connection that we have is I mentioned our board president.
- She was my board president at AIDS Rochester
- and then is still board president
- at AIDS Care, Ann Nenno who is a fascinating, fantastic person.
- I have to say, meeting her really jumped my awareness
- and suppressed, I think, some of my own prejudices
- about transgendered people.
- I made huge gains after meeting Ann.
- I mean she's just so well grounded and just
- the kindest person in the world and so bright.
- She always kind of got it.
- And she lost a brother, Craig Nenno to AIDS.
- And I met her mother at a fundraiser.
- And her mother is just so devoted to Bill Valenti
- because, I think, Bill is the one that helped Craig
- through his illness.
- And it's just an interesting and unique family.
- But they just adore Bill because Bill
- did so much for their family when it was needed.
- And now Ann's mother is a very generous donor.
- And Ann just is always there for the agency to do anything.
- So they're giving back in a big way.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I know that Bill was greatly
- affected when George Washburn--
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: John Washburn.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --John Washburn passed.
- His death seemed, again, to bring more visibility and more
- understanding, and the community, again,
- responded in an overwhelming way.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: What a brave man to be public at that time.
- And still a lot of people aren't public.
- Still.
- I have a family member.
- I mean, I think we've known about his illness--
- I don't know-- maybe eight years or so.
- But he lives in a rural area, very rural, not in this area,
- in another part of the state.
- But he was working with my brother-in-law at a physical
- job, and--
- I'll call him John--
- he cut himself.
- And he and Tim, my brother-in-law,
- went to help him.
- And he's like, no, no, no, you can't touch me.
- You can't touch me.
- You can't trust me.
- And so then he revealed to my brother-in-law
- that he had AIDS.
- And so as it came out, he told the family
- that he'd been a drug user, which Paul and I had suspected
- differently all along.
- Ultimately, he did come out as being gay,
- but again, that was another example of how it was more--
- gay men faced such a double whammy
- because they were coming out with their sexual orientation
- as well as their HIV to their families at the same time.
- Oh my God!
- I can't even imagine.
- So John chose to hide his homosexuality.
- It was much more acceptable to be a drug user
- than homosexual for many years until finally he
- relaxed with that too.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, thank you.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, thank you.
- Thank you for everything you've done.
- PAULA SILVESTRONE: Oh, thanks.
- Thanks, you guys.
- And what you are doing is cool.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And don't feel guilty.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Guilty?
- Let's have a martini.