Audio Interview, Shauna O'Toole, April 10, 2014

  • EVELYN BAILEY: Today is Thursday, April 10, 2014.
  • I'm sitting here at the Galen's Library with Shauna O'Toole
  • who has written a couple of books and whom is going to--
  • and we're going to do an interview about her story
  • and her experiences.
  • So, Shauna, first tell me, how many books have you written?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Oh, let me see here now.
  • If you were to go to Amazon, you'll
  • find You Can't Shave in a Minimart Bathroom, which
  • is my transition memoir, a couple of novellas, Bull
  • with Wings, The Mission, and a novel I recently published
  • called Recycled which is a, I want to say,
  • like a slightly futuristic political thriller.
  • Takes place mid-century, mid-twenty-first century,
  • where the United States is basically
  • a totalitarian state run by a perverted version of the Green
  • Party, which leads to a second civil war, and from there
  • a war from independence from the People's Republic of China.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Well, they own so much of this country
  • already, at that point during the civil war,
  • the president calls for help.
  • China comes to provide aid to secure and protect
  • its resources here and annexes the United States.
  • So the model of the book is reduce, reuse, repress.
  • (laughter)
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Have you always been involved
  • in political activities?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Oh, heavens, no.
  • Back in my before days, before I came out to myself,
  • and I didn't come out to myself until I was forty-five--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Where are you from?
  • Are you from New York?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I was born up north in Canada,
  • but most of my life has been New York state, Pennsylvania.
  • I call myself a Rochesterian.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I went to high school in Le Roy,
  • went to college at Brockport and at RIT.
  • Most of my life has been here in the Rochester area
  • and I call Rochester home.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And when were you at Brockport?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I was there from 1975 until 1980.
  • I was on the five year plan.
  • I ran into physical chemistry which
  • separated the men from the boys, even though that phrase no
  • longer applies to me.
  • I'm going to warn you straight up,
  • assuming I can use that phrase, that I do a lot of humor
  • simply because I do.
  • And I--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Pam shared that with me.
  • (O'Toole laughs)
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: So I did my earth science major in one
  • year.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, wow.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Could not get a--
  • find a job on earth science directly.
  • Got my teaching certification, couldn't find a job
  • in teaching because the year before I
  • got my certification there was a massive wave of retirements
  • and all the positions were filled.
  • So I went into industry for the next eighteen years.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What industry?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I was five years at a now defunct detergent
  • company.
  • Did quality control, product development.
  • Thirteen years in the research labs
  • at Eastman Kodak which I loved.
  • Absolutely loved.
  • After thirteen years, twelve were great.
  • Year number twelve they ended up taking me
  • to the hospital with every sign of a heart attack.
  • I was, what, forty-two?
  • But year thirteen I left Kodak the same way how I started,
  • looking forward to going to work because it was going
  • to be something new and fun and exciting and different
  • and would make a difference.
  • I was eleven years a high school science teacher.
  • Taught earth science, living environment,
  • I could probably fake my way through the physics
  • and chemistry.
  • Taught environmental science and now the best job I could find
  • is chopping veggies at Wegmans.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • Were you transitioned as a teacher or did you--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I was a tenured high school science
  • teacher when I transitioned, and that was a whole--
  • it was, it was a difficult time and it wasn't necessarily
  • because of the district.
  • The year before I ended up transitioning,
  • I was the lead story on the local news,
  • made the five, six and eleven o'clock news.
  • Sodus teacher to change sex.
  • I wasn't out to my kids yet.
  • It was tough.
  • Things got delayed by a year.
  • The year I transitioned I was placed on a teacher improvement
  • plan.
  • I know.
  • Which was the right of a principal to do at any time.
  • But, you know, I was--
  • I thought I was ready for this jump, to be myself 24/7,
  • and realized that what I thought was well-prepared was basic
  • information and I was absolutely completely overwhelmed
  • by the amount of socialization--
  • pardon me not getting that word out easily--
  • that I had to go through.
  • And with hormone replacement therapy, what I discovered--
  • here in hindsight--
  • is that your body stays at the age
  • that you're at but your brain de-evolves back
  • to being fourteen.
  • So my brain went through puberty a second time, puberty 2.0,
  • and it's a lot less fun the second time.
  • And I was not able to complete the improvement plan.
  • I won't go into some of the details
  • simply for reasons of trying to legally protect myself,
  • but I was-- ended up being given the choice
  • to resign or be fired.
  • So I resigned and looked for work.
  • And it was amazing how fast telephone interviews would
  • end when they heard this voice associated
  • with the name of Shauna Marie.
  • And so looking to go back to school for career number four.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Good for you.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Thank you.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Can you share with me a little bit about--
  • you lived in Le Roy for a time.
  • Were you at that time thinking about transitioning
  • or were you uncomfortable with who you were?
  • And what, if any, resources might
  • have been available at the time and that sort of thing?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Well, I first started
  • to question who I was back when I was about four or five.
  • We were living in Utica at the time
  • and my dad was doing his residency in psychiatry
  • at Utica State Hospital.
  • I've always joked that I was his first and only failure
  • as a psychiatrist.
  • (laughter)
  • You ought to come when I do my book talks.
  • I'm like this but even more so.
  • And back then it was a serious mental illness
  • being gay and lesbian.
  • If you were a transgender of any sort,
  • actually I would have been listed as a homosexual
  • with transvestite tendencies, if I recall the correct diagnosis.
  • It was treated with aversion therapy, forced indoctrination,
  • and electroshock.
  • All of which I avoided.
  • Being as young as what I was, I didn't have any playmates.
  • And at the time, the American thing to do
  • was to go for the Sunday afternoon drive.
  • So my Teddy bear and I had our own adventures,
  • and the bear would drive and I would be in the passenger seat
  • because that's where my mom sat.
  • And I ended up liberating one of her dresses from the closet.
  • I said, "Oh, shiny," not realizing
  • that this silvery gray chiffon dress was
  • something she had been saving for and had never worn.
  • So finding it in the bottom of my closet was not a good thing.
  • And she came out and said, "It's wrong, it's bad, it's evil,
  • don't ever do this again."
  • You know, I loved my mom.
  • She said it was wrong and I said, OK.
  • But all the way through childhood
  • and through high school and beyond, you know,
  • I always had something-- it was like part of my psyche
  • was clinging to a lifeline.
  • But at the same time, the media messages
  • were so anti-gay and lesbian and trans.
  • For example, you know, there were movies
  • out where a sweet, unsuspecting housewife was lured away
  • by this lesbian looking for a romance.
  • And so lesbians were portrayed as homewreckers.
  • Gays were portrayed as being criminals.
  • The movie Diamonds are Forever, who were the two assassins?
  • An overtly stereotype over-the-top gay couple.
  • And if you were trans, you were a psychopath.
  • Dressed to Kill, who was the murderer?
  • The psychiatrist who is transgender.
  • In, what, Silence of the Lambs, who was the psychopath?
  • The person who was-- who was trans.
  • Granted, he was-- he had other psychological issues that
  • prevented him, but there in the beginning of the movie
  • he saw these women with different parts of their body
  • skinned and they're trying to figure out, well,
  • what's going on, why different parts?
  • It took me ten seconds to put the pieces together
  • that whoever this was was making a female suit to wear.
  • So the whole idea of coming out or transitioning
  • was so far away because I was taught this was wrong,
  • this was bad, this was evil, and there was no place safe to go
  • for information.
  • So from childhood on up through my late thirties,
  • early forties, I thought I was the only one around.
  • I didn't have-- there was no internet
  • or didn't have access to it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Correct.
  • And were you able--
  • did you ever share that with anyone?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Never.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Never.
  • Very scary place for a child to be totally alone like that.
  • But who could I tell?
  • I mean, the whole world was so anti this.
  • Was there something wrong with me?
  • I don't want to be different from anyone else,
  • I don't want to be picked on or bullied.
  • I was already heavy.
  • I got picked on for that.
  • Add this to it?
  • Are you kidding?
  • So, no, didn't have any thoughts like that.
  • There was no information.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What precipitated your
  • being catapulted into your own transition then?
  • What-- I mean--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Halloween.
  • Halloween 2003 is when the world changed.
  • Now, up until this point, all the way
  • through childhood, high school, college, single life,
  • married life--
  • people ask, why did I get married,
  • was I trying to prove myself a man?
  • Obviously it didn't work.
  • It was a case of I fell in love.
  • I think in hindsight I fell more in love
  • with the idea of being in love as opposed to with her
  • and that came later.
  • But that's the reason I got married.
  • I wasn't trying to prove myself a man.
  • But all this while I had this internal conflict,
  • this Dr. Jekyll and Miss Hyde personality, if you will.
  • Not from a psychological standpoint--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: No.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: --but two parts of my psyche at war
  • with who I was.
  • So we were living in Syracuse at the time
  • and, and the conversation between the two psyches
  • went something like this, starting off with Miss Hyde
  • going, "You know, Halloween's coming up,
  • what are you thinking about doing for that?"
  • Dr. Jekyll responded, "Now, don't even talk to me.
  • Every time I talk to you I get myself in trouble.
  • That's why I have you in the box,
  • it's been welded shut, chains, locks, you're not getting out."
  • "I'm just asking, what are you doing for Halloween?"
  • Dr. Jekyll, being innocent, said, "Well, I'm not sure.
  • I could go as a mad scientist."
  • I was a science teacher at the time and--
  • but that's not really a costume.
  • That's who I am.
  • You know, I don't know if you've ever
  • seen the television show Home Improvement and the show
  • within of Tool Time, Al Boreland, that's
  • what I used to look like.
  • Beard, shortish hair, toolbelt, flannel shirts.
  • Tim, that's not a safe thing to do.
  • It's who I was as well so I could--
  • But that's not a costume either so I just
  • may forget about it this year.
  • It's good.
  • "Well, have you ever thought about, oh,
  • maybe taking a walk on the wild side?"
  • "Are you crazy?
  • Never happen.
  • It's just ain't going to happen."
  • "Well, tell you what, you talk to her best friends--"
  • her being my spouse--
  • "if they think it's a good idea will you do it?"
  • "Sure.
  • It just ain't going to fly.
  • Trust me."
  • I talked to a number of her best friends
  • and said, "This is what I was thinking of doing,
  • do you think it would fly?"
  • And wouldn't you know, every single one
  • thought it was a great idea.
  • They were going to try to get their husbands
  • to do the same thing.
  • And so part of my brain was going, doh!
  • Doh!
  • And the other part was going, excellent,
  • everything is going according to plan.
  • So Miss Hyde was very happy.
  • She had set me up.
  • And, you know, it was one of these where there
  • are two ways of how to do it.
  • You could be a parody or you could be passable.
  • You know, I've reached a point where I've--
  • it's go big or go home.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: All the way or none of the way.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Oh, that's right.
  • That's right.
  • So talked to the person that I've been seeing for my hair,
  • and now I've been going for over--
  • well over twenty years and said, "Sue, can you do this?"
  • And she looked at me and said, "Are you really sure
  • you want to do this?"
  • I said, "Sure.
  • It'll be fun.
  • It's Halloween."
  • You know, and trust me, hairdressers, like bartenders,
  • read people and they know everything.
  • And she said, "OK.
  • I can do this."
  • So during the ensuing month, you know, thank
  • goodness for the internet at this point,
  • I bought an olive drab skirt, it was mid-calf,
  • inch and a half heels, cable knit sweater, black purse that
  • was a Coach knock off, and showed up
  • at Sue's with everything.
  • Three hours in the chair.
  • Hair, makeup, nails, the whole nine yards.
  • Everything.
  • And I stepped out of the bathroom-- not the closet--
  • and looked at myself in the mirror,
  • and by God there was a woman staring back at me.
  • You know, I raised my hand up and she raised her's up,
  • I put my hand to my face she put her's to her face,
  • and there was this moment of panic.
  • And Sue told me she saw this.
  • It was this incredible moment of panic
  • because I've been told this was wrong, this was bad,
  • this was evil all my life.
  • But then I waited one instant longer.
  • At that point Dr. Jekyll realized
  • that she was Miss Hyde.
  • They were one and the same.
  • So at that point--
  • people asked me, who was the first person I came out to?
  • The first person I came out to was myself
  • because I had been hiding from myself for,
  • literally, for decades.
  • Sue was second because she was right there.
  • So at that point I knew I had to deal with this.
  • So I went to the Halloween party and I walked in and one
  • of the other women-- and even then it was not one
  • of the women but one of the other women, I was already--
  • part of my brain was identifying here--
  • went, ahhhh, screamed.
  • I was immediately ushered into the kitchen
  • and I had a dozen women circling around me
  • like vultures looking for the slightest flaw.
  • Is that your real hair?
  • Yes.
  • It's my real hair.
  • They checked the nails.
  • They were perfect.
  • Looked at the entire outfit.
  • The jewelry I had borrowed matched the color of the skirt.
  • I had a couple tell me later they
  • were very upset because I looked better in a skirt
  • than what they did.
  • Which, to be catty, is true.
  • My spouse took one look at me, turned and walked out.
  • Now, she knew I was doing this, not to det-- not to the extent
  • but she knew I was doing this.
  • And she walked out of the room and I said, oh, crap,
  • and tried to follow her into the next room.
  • She turned, walked away and went home.
  • And that was Halloween 2003 and she has not
  • looked my way since.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What happened when you got home?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I was ignored.
  • Conversations-- face to face conversation,
  • she kept me at either her three o'clock or nine o'clock
  • position.
  • So face to face I'd be talking to the side of her face.
  • She just couldn't look at me.
  • It was very painful.
  • So November first is when I started
  • my journal which became my memoir,
  • You Can't Shave in a Minimart Bathroom.
  • So when people read that, they're reading my journal.
  • And I wrote it all as letters.
  • I've take out "Dear Kind and Gentle
  • Reader," which is what they were all addressed to.
  • But they're very simple, very short diary entries.
  • I kept them readable.
  • It's a fast read and I write the way how I speak.
  • So that was when I knew I had to start dealing with this.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And once you kind of came
  • to that realization, what year was that?
  • Oh, 2003.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: 2003.
  • I was forty-five.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: There was the internet.
  • Were there other resources available to you?
  • Now, you were-- were you in Wayne County at the time?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: No.
  • At the time I was living in Baldwinsville.
  • Syracuse area.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And locally, not initially.
  • Locally, all I wanted to do was find resources on the internet.
  • And I found a--
  • first thing I did was I Googled transsexual
  • and I came up something like nine million hits,
  • half of which were porn, and almost the rest of the hits
  • were places selling plus size clothing
  • at five to six times the price at what you
  • would get at Kmart or Wal-Mart or Target
  • or anything else like that.
  • You know, Capitalists, I get that.
  • But I did find a couple of sites online that were bulletin board
  • support sites.
  • And yet this is before Facebook, before Myspace.
  • I think it was before Myspace.
  • And had a lot of support there.
  • Met some wonderful people online through that,
  • several of which I talked-- talk with on a regular basis
  • on the phone.
  • I've yet to meet face to face to face but hope to do so.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --in terms of Baldwinsville or Syracuse,
  • there was no safe space that you could go to and participate
  • in a meeting or--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: None that I knew of.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --support group.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: None that I knew of.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: It was--
  • after being online for about a year,
  • I said, I need something more and came out to my physician.
  • And it was one of these where--
  • you know, so I made an appointment,
  • doc-- doctor came in and even then I had female physicians.
  • I've almost always had a female physician.
  • That was just always more comfortable.
  • Ding, ding.
  • Sign!
  • You know, think about this.
  • And so she came in, did a physical,
  • said, "You seem healthy."
  • And I-- about to walk and I said, "Would you
  • like to know why I came?"
  • And she looked at me, "I'm so sorry.
  • I never asked that.
  • I am so sorry, it's been a hell of a day.
  • So what brought you here?"
  • So I came out to her and said, "You know,
  • I am looking for a reference to see a counselor
  • on gender identity.
  • And here with the referral my insurance will cover it."
  • So found one down in Auburn.
  • I had to-- my doctor had no concept of care
  • for transgender patients.
  • Was open to it, was definitely not against--
  • you know, I brought a copy of the Harry Benjamin standards
  • with me because that was the Bible at the time
  • and shared it with her, gave her a copy,
  • and said-- looked through, said, "Yeah, we can do this.
  • You know, these, these are all very reas-- reasonable things.
  • You know, a lot of the initial work, yeah, we--
  • I can do.
  • We can do this."
  • So I started seeing a counselor and it was so painful.
  • So absolutely painful because I kept
  • talking about my gender hidden for so long.
  • Opening on up was like yanking teeth.
  • But I also knew I had to do it.
  • And eventually it got to the point
  • where I so looked forward to my monthly visits.
  • And I think she had me pegged as transsexual long before I did.
  • She would comment that I was the most cautious and reserved
  • client she had ever had in her career of working
  • with transgender patients.
  • Or transgender clients, I should say.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Did you ever try to put
  • the genie back in the bottle?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: As in pretend that I wasn't trans?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: No.
  • Once I came to that realization, Halloween 2003,
  • I accepted the fact that I was trans
  • and to do anything else would have been destructive.
  • And I knew I had to deal with it.
  • I had been in denial for far too many years.
  • And realizing that I was not the only one, that there
  • were people I could talk with, was a God send.
  • And so realizing I wasn't alone helped me through this.
  • In terms of being me out safely just did not happen.
  • I had no safe place at the point and--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Except for your therapist.
  • I mean--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Even with my therapist.
  • You know.
  • And I always went in male mode instead of me.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • Right.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Until one auspicious day.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But you must have felt
  • some sense of this was an OK place to explore who you were--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --and be open about that--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --to some extent or another.
  • Otherwise, why would you have continued the therapy.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Exactly.
  • Oh, no.
  • Don't get me wrong here.
  • It was a case of--
  • unlike Rochester where there were safe places to go
  • and there are spouses whose partner they allow
  • will go on out or accept them as being trans,
  • such was not my case at the time.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: So there was no safe place for me
  • to be out as me except when I talked with my counselor.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And even then I would
  • go from school to the counselor and then back to the house.
  • I couldn't change.
  • There was no--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And were you still living with your--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --wife?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
  • It was April 2006.
  • My kids and I had different spring breaks
  • and we had planned to go on out to the Outer Banks together.
  • We had done that a year previously.
  • She had family that rented a large house down there
  • on the ocean.
  • And you know, divide the cost up among five or six families
  • it becomes dirt cheap.
  • So you know, split the cost and then you
  • either do several nights of doing dishes
  • or you cook for everyone.
  • Trust me, with this figure, I loved to cook
  • and so I cooked for the household.
  • And you know, the other women came by-- and, yes, even then,
  • even in male mode, it was the other women,
  • "Do you need a hand with anything?"
  • "No, no, no.
  • I have the veggies going to right here,
  • the salad is all made, so and so is on out
  • handling the grilling of the-- of the meat here.
  • Everything here is going."
  • They all looked at me and said, "Oh, OK.
  • You don't need our help?"
  • I said, "No, I got it covered.
  • Not a problem."
  • So anyhow, that was 2005.
  • The last family vacation we took, 2006,
  • she went with the kids to the Outer Bank
  • and while the cat's away the mice will boogie.
  • And so I would get home from teaching,
  • do whatever chores I needed to do outside,
  • and then I would be me inside the house.
  • Now, I had, at this point, was building up a small wardrobe
  • that I kept in the back of my pickup truck
  • in large opaque Tupperware box.
  • I brought it inside and started to explore being me
  • and realized just how right this felt.
  • At this point I realized that body and soul had
  • been in this court for so long.
  • Finally looking in the ref--
  • in the mirror and seeing me, suddenly I
  • was in a state of harmony.
  • And, you know, it was like moving from a local coffee shop
  • where I used to sing and do music to suddenly being
  • at the Hollywood Bowl, the Los Angeles Philharmonic is
  • your Orchestra, you have backup singers,
  • you have more special effects than Garth Brooks,
  • more costume changes than Reba McEntire--
  • now you know what I listen to--
  • and you walk on the stage to twenty thousand
  • screaming fans all calling your name and you own the place.
  • And that's what it was like, and I almost could not go back.
  • The genie was way out of the bottle at this point.
  • And so the weekend before I pushed myself back
  • into the bottle knowing it was going to be temporary.
  • Because at this point I accepted the fact
  • that I was transgender, I accepted
  • the fact I was transsexual and I would need to transition.
  • It was no longer an if but now a when.
  • My counselor, whom I saw that week,
  • saw me for the first time.
  • Didn't-- she said I could come as me any time,
  • and when I showed up, denim skirt, heels, top.
  • Went to go see my friend Sue and I went as another--
  • I was just another woman in her shop.
  • And it was phenomenal.
  • She just looked at me, her jaw hit
  • the ground, going, "You look great, here, quick,
  • come into my office, let's talk."
  • And she was surprised at how fast
  • I had gone from not accepting myself
  • as transsexual to accepting.
  • But, you know, heart of hearts, I'm still a scientist.
  • I need data.
  • This was the data I needed.
  • And so that was April 2006.
  • June 28, 2006, at four seventeen in the afternoon,
  • I was handed my bag and told, you
  • can see the kids on the weekend.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • Did you have a place to go?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I did.
  • What happened there was--
  • communication broken down between my spouse
  • and myself completely.
  • To say things were chilly between us
  • would be like saying Antarctica gets a little nippy
  • in the wintertime.
  • It was awful.
  • We were literally at a point of emailing each other
  • from across the house.
  • That's how bad communication was.
  • And I told her, listen, we need help
  • to be able to talk with each other.
  • You know, I don't care who the counselor is.
  • Find one that you're comfortable with, I will go
  • and I will be there.
  • Well, turns out it was her counselor,
  • because she had been seeing one for a number of things
  • that I won't go into.
  • And she read a letter saying, we just
  • can't live together anymore and she knew everything just
  • needed me to admit it.
  • So I came out to her.
  • Wasn't how I planned on it but I think it's, what,
  • rule number seven.
  • In my book I have a section called da rules--
  • D-A rules-- da rules.
  • And if I recall, rule number seven is, from Murphy's laws
  • of combat, no battle plan remains intact
  • once the enemy has been engaged.
  • And basically that held on up.
  • I had a plan to do it in a different setting
  • but it happened and--
  • so between April and June I had come out to a colleague of mine
  • where I was teaching, someone who
  • was in a lesbian relationship.
  • It turns out that she had pegged me
  • as being transsexual years earlier,
  • back when I still had the Al Boreland beard
  • on my face which looks nothing like what I look like now.
  • And she had pegged me then and she
  • said that if anything should happen
  • I was welcome to come stay with her and her family.
  • And so the last week, a couple of days
  • before that infamous Thursday, I had talked with her and said,
  • "You know, is that offer still open?
  • I just have a bad feeling that something is about to break."
  • And she said, "Absolutely."
  • So I was handed my bag, and called and was said,
  • "Come on over, door's open and we're ready."
  • So I was very fortunate I had a safe place to go.
  • If I hadn't, odds are we would not
  • be having this conversation right now.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • Once that separation occurred, once you were, quote unquote,
  • "into the nest of transitioning in," did you find
  • any more acceptance from people who you interacted with?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: There were a few--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I mean--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: There were a few colleagues I came out to
  • and they were very supportive and accepting.
  • Which was wonderful.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Because it's kind of
  • hard to hide not living with your spouse
  • and living with a friend and--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
  • And-- well, I spent the summer there and right
  • about the end of summer, you know, the three of us
  • talked and we decided that really the best
  • thing that I needed was a room to be me, and not just there
  • in the house but my own place.
  • So I ended up getting my own place after that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And were you still in--
  • were you in Sodus?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I was still teaching in Sodus.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: So a couple of days after--
  • well, actually, a couple-- a few days before the end of school,
  • spoke with my union rep and said,
  • "This is what I'm going to be doing."
  • I wanted to give the union rep a heads up.
  • And the union rep was, "Oh, OK.
  • Well, tell me more."
  • Very accepting.
  • Found out later that my building rep went
  • to her backup rep going, you won't believe
  • what just happened to us!
  • Because she was having difficulty.
  • She kept it together for me but she
  • was having a real difficult time getting her arms around this,
  • and so chatted with both.
  • Chatted with our diversity manager,
  • and somehow immediately afterwards, the upper echelon
  • knew about this.
  • So I came out to my principal.
  • "Oh, really?
  • You're doing this?"
  • He already knew.
  • My superintendent at the time had already
  • looked up out of date articles.
  • So I forgot-- once you're out, you're out
  • and it simply spreads like wildfire.
  • So the plan was for me to transition September '07.
  • Legally, I could have done it September '06 but I sure
  • as hell wasn't ready and the school wasn't ready and no one
  • was ready and I wasn't out to my kids yet.
  • And so I figure September '07 gave a whole year to get things
  • set.
  • And then June 22, 2007 came along
  • and I was the lead story for the five, six, eleven o'clock news
  • and made the next morning roundup.
  • Sodus teacher to change sex.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: That must have freaked you out.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I was doing the item analysis
  • on the Regents' exam and I get a photocop-- or a phone call,
  • rather.
  • Hello?
  • And it was the principal's secretary.
  • He was going, "You have an immediate meeting
  • with the superintendent in the principal's office.
  • I am calling your building rep and union president for you.
  • You are to stop everything you are doing
  • and come down here immediately."
  • And I'm going, what the hell have I done now?
  • Now, just--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I know.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Just as an aside, you know,
  • during the year, gearing towards September '07, my appearance
  • had slowly been going from male to more androgynous male
  • to androgynous and heading towards androgynous female.
  • My hair had been getting long and--
  • and when-- and on occasion I pushed it little far
  • and I would get phone call-- get a sudden meeting
  • with the superintendent saying, "Pull it back,
  • you're going too far."
  • I said, "Yes, ma'am."
  • But even so far as to not have my hair in a ponytail,
  • I have a call from the superintendent.
  • But it is what it is.
  • And so I'm going, what the hell have I done now?
  • And he said, "Just come down here.
  • Don't talk to anyone, just come down."
  • Superintendent comes in saying that her secretary had received
  • a phone call from WHEC TV 10 about the teacher who
  • was changing sex, that they had already talked to the school
  • board, and wanted to know if the superintendent had
  • any comments to make before they went with the story.
  • And she wanted to know if I had spoken with the press.
  • And I said, "Absolutely not."
  • And she knew I was telling the truth
  • because she could see the blood draining from my face.
  • So she had to return the phone call.
  • So my principal, my union president, and I
  • think one of another administrator
  • and my superintendent were all there
  • and she returned the phone call.
  • She handled it beautifully.
  • But all the while, you know, I could tell the reporter simply
  • wasn't buying this.
  • You know, if this was happening this
  • would be an internal personal personnel issue.
  • We just don't talk about that.
  • And all the while I could feel my blood pressure rise,
  • my lips had literally gone numb, my hands
  • were starting-- my hands were underneath the table,
  • they were starting to shake violently,
  • and I had to close my eyes and concentrate to calm down.
  • Because I figured if I had an aneurysm or a stroke or a heart
  • attack right then, it would have been
  • construed as unprofessional behavior on my part.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: You know--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Don't you love--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I know!
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --the language?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And so she handled
  • it and she did a great job.
  • She-- and we all agreed that the reporter
  • wasn't buying any of it.
  • So I get back up to my room and people are coming on up going,
  • are you OK?
  • Is everything fine?
  • And I go, yes, just leave me be.
  • Twelve-thirty in the afternoon, principal gets on saying,
  • "There is an immediate meeting for all personnel
  • in the auditorium."
  • I'm going, oh, bloody fucking hell.
  • Pardon my language.
  • I don't need this.
  • So I go down and the superintendent
  • says that there was a news truck out front talking
  • to students and teachers coming on campus,
  • and wanting to iterate--
  • reiterate that, you know, personnel issues,
  • talking about that, only happens through me, the superintendent,
  • and that it's a termination offense for anyone
  • to be on out there talking about personal issues.
  • That also goes for the school board.
  • And she went to say, "This is what's going on and said,
  • yes, someone is going to be transitioning next year."
  • I had about 80 percent of the faculty and staff turn
  • and look at me.
  • They--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You were the identified problem.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I found out the next day that everyone,
  • and I mean everyone, even though they never
  • used my name on the air, everyone
  • was texting and IMing using my name.
  • Now, my daughter knew some of my students through Facebook.
  • Hey, what's this I hear about your dad?
  • What are you talking about?
  • Well, there was the news truck here
  • and they said he's becoming a she and duh duh duh duh duh duh
  • duh.
  • So my students outed me to my daughter.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yeah.
  • If it had waited two weeks, two lousy weeks,
  • it would have been a non-issue.
  • Because the following week I was going to meet with my attorney,
  • start HRT, and, and--
  • pardon me-- come out to the kids.
  • Two weeks.
  • You know, if you want to hear God laugh, tell God your plans.
  • Friendly fire isn't.
  • That is rule five.
  • Rule six, check your six often.
  • Come to find out that it was some members of the faculty
  • and staff, some of which I believe who are retired,
  • who contacted the TV station about this to try to protect
  • the children from me.
  • And I was outed.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: So at that point I was out of the closet.
  • I had to tell my spouse--
  • I was still married at the time--
  • this is what happened.
  • I didn't do this but I--
  • you need to know what happened.
  • And she came back with some very, very, very negative
  • phraseology.
  • It's amazing just how nasty you can be in two sentences.
  • And everything ended up being pushed back by a year.
  • So didn't transition until-- or I didn't start teaching as me
  • until September '08.
  • I went full time August 22, 2008 at six twenty-two
  • in the morning.
  • Sunrise.
  • What better time to start a new life than a sunrise?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And you taught at Sodus for a year after that?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I left in 2011.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • So there were a few years.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Right.
  • The kids never had a problem.
  • At this point, the state of education
  • had changed from learning something to passing exams.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And it was test, test, test all the time
  • and I was being--
  • I needed to teach in a way that was not
  • conducive to my methodology.
  • My way worked.
  • I mean, I had a 92.7 percent pass rate.
  • Then they messed up the meeting pattern,
  • they messed up what they were learning in the lower grades
  • so they came into my classroom with almost no science
  • background, or a spit level.
  • Because everything was reading first.
  • Well, you can read science.
  • But it was read, read read, read,
  • and they came into my classroom still not being able to read.
  • So my pass rate went from a 92 percent to a 67 percent.
  • And I'm surprised it was that high.
  • And worked back up into this upper seventies, low eighties,
  • but I was having to teach in a way that
  • just didn't work for me.
  • Reached a point-- and with this, having
  • to deal with the legal issues with my then spouse,
  • the socialization issues.
  • And even though I was accepted, it was still tough.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, God.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And, you know, there
  • are some medical reports that link estrogen to depression.
  • I became serious-- seriously and clinically depressed,
  • dangerously depressed at a point.
  • I was almost at the point where I could barely get myself out
  • of bed to come teach.
  • My last year I fell behind in a lot of things.
  • Did not get things done that needed to get done.
  • And I'll be upfront and say I made some serious mistakes
  • my last year.
  • But the same time, I'll come back and say,
  • I should never have been placed in that improvement plan.
  • At the time I was not protected by EEOC regulations.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Or the union?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Union didn't do anything for me.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Don't know if they could
  • have done anything for me.
  • It's the principal's prerogative to put anyone
  • on an improvement plan.
  • And this was one where I trusted my administration
  • and that was a mistake.
  • I do not believe that they were out to get me.
  • I don't want to give that impression.
  • If anything, I think they wanted to make me this phenomenal role
  • model for the entire LGBTQI community where,
  • look what she is doing and I had a hand in it
  • and we're all living under the rainbow banner.
  • And GENDA would pass and marriage equality would pass
  • and everything would be great.
  • I really think that was the impetus for it.
  • And it simply was something I just
  • couldn't do with the way I was being taught.
  • If I-- if I had been left alone I would still be teaching.
  • But it is what it is.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Where there, at this point,
  • other supports that you had access to?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
  • It was after the news story, and they
  • interviewed I believe it was Jeanne Gainsburg of the Gay
  • Alliance.
  • I was doing this totally on my own.
  • I never even heard of the Gay Alliance.
  • I mean, I was out there on my own.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: They're-- they're not really outreaching to Wayne
  • County these days or any days.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And so--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And the Empty Closet
  • doesn't make it that far.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: No.
  • It doesn't.
  • And so I-- you know, I saw the interview,
  • saw that they were talking.
  • Well, what's this Gay Alliance thing?
  • So I looked on--
  • online and said, oh.
  • So I called and said, "You know, there's
  • a story on TV about a teacher who is changing sex,
  • well, I'm that teacher."
  • And the person who picked up was someone from the Empty Closet.
  • And I asked, "Well, what is the Empty Closet?"
  • Looked at me and said, "It's the newspaper
  • for the LGBT community, it's one of the longest around."
  • And I go, "Oh, sorry, never heard of it before."
  • Sort of, didn't mean to be insulting by not knowing
  • the name, what it is but--
  • and so, you know, I wanted to speak with someone.
  • So I think it was Jeanne who gave me a callback
  • and said, "Yes, I want to talk to you!"
  • And she put me in touch with the Rochester trans group.
  • So I went there and that was the first time I had actually
  • been in a room with other members of the trans community.
  • Well, I take that back.
  • It wasn't the first time.
  • There was a group I went to a couple of times in Syracuse,
  • but most were cross-dressers as opposed to being transsexual.
  • In this case, most of the people who were in this room
  • were transsexual.
  • I'm going, wow, I'm not alone.
  • Even with the internet, simply being in this room--
  • I had met more people in that one-- walking
  • in than at one time what I ever--
  • than what I knew before, all combined together
  • in terms of knowing them personally,
  • Pam being one of them.
  • They were a great support through those first couple
  • of years.
  • The group ended up breaking up, and from Newark
  • on into the meetings, it started to get expensive and I had--
  • had to pick up a second job to help
  • put my daughter through school.
  • So time got tough in order to go and do things.
  • But, yeah.
  • The Rochester Trans Group was a massive help.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: How did you manage to keep your balance?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I'm not sure I always did.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And let me, let me just expand on that
  • a little and--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: OK.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --share with you.
  • By that I mean, here you were out in this rural area, pretty
  • isolated.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Had a responsible job, tremendous in--
  • influence in that job, and a lot of pressure.
  • And not just the pressure of moving
  • with what was happening to you emotionally,
  • physically, and mentally, but--
  • I'm a former teacher.
  • Teaching is extremely stressful, especially
  • when the grade is what determines
  • and the percent passing regents exams
  • is what determines whether or not
  • you're looked upon favorably.
  • How did you manage?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: The last couple of years I didn't.
  • I was starting to fall apart.
  • The pressure of everything was--
  • I was starting to crumble under it, especially my last year.
  • I became dangerously depressed, suicidal.
  • I'm a suicide survivor.
  • Spent a night with a rope around my neck.
  • But as I was sliding myself off the ledge--
  • at this point I had spoken at a number of conferences
  • and several local colleges and I had these young adults come up
  • to me after, might be right then, might be days later,
  • weeks later, even a year or more later
  • and it still happens, saying thank you because my story was
  • a positive message.
  • It was a story of hope, a story of laughter.
  • And as I was sliding off I thought,
  • if my story ended tragically, what's going to happen to them?
  • So I caught myself, put myself back off the ledge,
  • and lost my job.
  • You know, my first thought was, oh, thank God,
  • I don't have to do this anymore.
  • But the--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yeah.
  • Because I'd reached a point of no return.
  • Even without being given the choice to resign or be fired,
  • I would love teaching anyway.
  • I just couldn't do it anymore.
  • I was-- the stress of it was killing me.
  • It had nothing to do with my transition,
  • it had everything to do with what
  • the job was calling me to be.
  • And that was to be untrue to the kids,
  • it was calling me to be untrue to teaching.
  • You know, I wasn't teaching science,
  • I was teaching a damn test.
  • And that's not what I wanted to do.
  • Now, during those couple years, from '07 when I was outed on TV
  • to when I left, I would have students come up to me
  • on the QT and come out to me that they were gay,
  • they were lesbian, they were bi.
  • And they didn't-- they felt safe telling me but they didn't dare
  • tell their parents because they would have been, A,
  • beaten to nearly to death, and B, and or B,
  • thrown out on the street with nothing more than what--
  • what they had on their back.
  • My last year I had a gender variant student.
  • And the first time I met this student,
  • I would have sworn good money that the student was female.
  • And it was-- was a particularly very feminine male.
  • His whole demeanor, though, was very female
  • all the way through.
  • And I'm very, very proud of one of my students.
  • First-- first day he was there everything was fine.
  • I think it was a first day in class.
  • Second day he was walking on down
  • and a group of juniors and seniors
  • started to shot out some rather derogatory remarks,
  • and one of my other students shouted down all these juniors
  • and seniors and got in their face.
  • I used to call her a Starbuck.
  • You know, after the reimaging of Battlestar Galactica character.
  • You know, I had to explain what that was.
  • And, you know, tough as iron.
  • You know, heart of gold, tough as iron, and usually people
  • don't want to screw with her.
  • And he goes, yeah, I like that, I like that one a lot.
  • So Starbuck shouted-- something about a dozen or more
  • got in their faces.
  • And then I think it was the third day there went--
  • so I relayed what happened and I had her go on down and name
  • names, and those kids had an attitude adjustment,
  • shall we say.
  • Next day, my gender variant student
  • was sort of hanging back after class.
  • And I had my planning period right then and so I said,
  • "Well, what's-- are you OK?"
  • He goes, "No, because I have phys ed."
  • I looked at him and said, "You're
  • in the same class with everyone else?"
  • He said, "Yes."
  • "Come with me."
  • Brought him down to the main office
  • and said, "I want you to call the phys ed teacher, tell him
  • that this particular student is not absent, is with me
  • and there is an issue we are dealing with."
  • Went from there straight to guidance
  • and said, "You have this student in a room full of overly
  • aggressive, hormone crazed guys."
  • And the look on the counselor-- or on the counselor's face
  • was, oh, my God, I never even thought of that.
  • So he got to sit it in to a different phys ed
  • class where he would be safe.
  • So, you know, I had impacts that way.
  • It was something that was remembered by the student.
  • And it was through this year when
  • I went from-- before you asked, was I into politics,
  • before I said, no.
  • In my before days I was a hand-wringing, mealy-mouth
  • wimp.
  • And nowadays it's more like Shrek.
  • I just sort of go through things and it's sort of
  • like a bull in a china shop.
  • I just go through.
  • I mean, don't stand in my way.
  • And this is when this passion and fire
  • to get, get us our rights really, really took off.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: As you look back over that period,
  • what would have helped make it easier for you?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: If I had an attorney with me and said,
  • "No, we are not going to do this teacher improvement plan."
  • If I had been protected under law or regulation.
  • Say, "I'm the only one in the department going through this,
  • I'm going to take this as a sexual discrimination.
  • And if you put anyone on right now it
  • will simply bolster the case."
  • I didn't have the backbone then that I do now.
  • And that would have helped greatly
  • if I had known what I was getting myself
  • into in regards to employment.
  • If I had an attorney with me, but more than just a union.
  • If I had the law behind me to protect me
  • it would have helped greatly.
  • If I had people in the area who were trans as well,
  • would have been wonderful.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: As, as you look back
  • at the early beginning in terms of your movement and growth
  • into who you are today, what--
  • what do you wish was there that wasn't?
  • What do you--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: How far back?
  • As a comparison point?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: High school.
  • Or junior high, or elementary school.
  • I mean--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: If the climate was such where being LGBT
  • wasn't such an evil thing.
  • I would have been able to have dealt with it.
  • If it was not perceived as being such an evil thing back then,
  • I would have been able to talk to my mom and dad about it.
  • I've been able to talk about them about almost everything.
  • This was the one thing I couldn't.
  • And after that being outed on TV,
  • my brother and sister outed me to mom.
  • They assumed it was an official announcement--
  • twit, slap-- and they outed me to mom and she looked at them
  • and said, "I'm not surprised."
  • Moms know everything.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Even you think they don't.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Even when you think they don't they
  • know everything.
  • I didn't know this until I received a letter.
  • I just didn't have anyone there to support me.
  • No one that I knew of there in Wayne County.
  • I didn't know all this had happened until I received
  • a letter from my goddaughter saying, "We love you
  • as you are, your brother loves you, your sister loves you,
  • your mother loves you, she doesn't want you to do this."
  • I'm going, oh, who didn't you tell, brother?
  • And so it took me a month to wordsmith a reply back.
  • It was eight pages typed.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And I sent it off
  • to my brother, my sister, mom, and to my goddaughter who
  • sent me this letter, and received a nasty-gram
  • from my sister-in-law's sister.
  • (unintelligible) opened the envelope,
  • it said, "I challenge you--" I said,
  • I'm not going to deal with this.
  • This is just a nasty-gram.
  • The letter I had from my mom was,
  • "I never knew you were in such pain, I love you,
  • and I will always love you."
  • I called her the next day, went to go see her a few days
  • after that, and I walked in--
  • it had been a few months since we had seen each other--
  • and walked in and she started to say, "Oh,
  • it's so great to see my ssss--
  • it's so great to see you."
  • She was halfway through saying son and changed it to you.
  • And we talked and I had some pictures of me as me.
  • She told me, I was just getting ready to leave,
  • she said, "You know, you talk as any other woman
  • with your facial expressions, your hands, your whole posture.
  • I see it."
  • So she did her best in order to help my brother and sister
  • through this.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Shauna, if you look at the future, which
  • is hard to do, I mean, because it does not
  • seem that we have time in decades
  • that seem like time in decades.
  • Everything happened so quickly and--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
  • It did.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --and technology has made
  • communication instantaneous.
  • What do you wish would happen immediately?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: For me right now?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: For you--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Or for the community?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: For you right now, and then
  • the second question is for the community.
  • But for you right now, what do you wish
  • would happen to allow you to be more fully who you are?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: If we were not excluded
  • from medical coverage for the medical procedures many of us
  • desire.
  • You know, breast augmentation, vaginoplasty, you know,
  • speaking from being a male to female transsexual.
  • And if you're female to male, having breast removal
  • and phalloplasty, if I recall correctly.
  • I like using the correct terms instead of calling it
  • sex change.
  • Let's be honest about what the procedure is.
  • If we were protect--
  • if we were protected under the law.
  • So we could do this.
  • I would like to be able to hold on to my job,
  • be able to apply for a job and not have my being who I am,
  • being the fact I am transsexual and very open about it,
  • not be an issue.
  • I would like to get home tonight and find a letter of acceptance
  • from grad school.
  • Career number four, knock on laminate,
  • is going to be getting my degree in social work
  • so I can work with LGB and especially transgender kids,
  • and especially in areas that have little
  • to no services like next door in Wayne County.
  • My fiance and I have talked about--
  • and pastor-- about trying to open a safe house, a safe place
  • for kids when they come out they can
  • go to, if they're thrown out of the house, they can come,
  • safe place, get them into school, help them learn,
  • get them into counseling.
  • That's my dream here for career number four.
  • And with that, having the presence I think
  • will help acceptance in rural areas.
  • I mean, my pastor understands this gig.
  • I won't go into why.
  • Susan Kohlmeier there in Palmyra, what's been known,
  • talked about in town, as the gay church.
  • And you know, she sees that.
  • She has trans kids and LGB kids show up on her doorstep
  • because they've been thrown out of their homes
  • and I want to do something about that, make that impact
  • that way.
  • Bring in our state senators and assemblymen and saying,
  • these are kids who are on out there.
  • They've lost their homes, they've lost everything.
  • I would like from a community standpoint, the trans community
  • standpoint, to know what our numbers really are.
  • Last night there was a meeting about GENDA and equality
  • and justice today.
  • Where we stand, what it's looking like,
  • what's being done.
  • And assemblyman Harry Bronson who's been a strong supporter
  • mentioned that he had just introduced
  • a bill so that on any state form would be a place--
  • optional place-- to put down if you're LGBTQI.
  • So we can get real numbers.
  • And with these real numbers we can plan on services.
  • Because there's no firm number being out there of how many
  • we are.
  • Statistically, best number I've heard right now is 0.2 percent.
  • And that's not a lot of people.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: No.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And, you know, so we don't
  • have that much of a voice.
  • So having real numbers, having people get up and say,
  • "OK, it's not 0.2 percent, you look
  • and see that it's actually 4 percent who fall in this range
  • somewhere."
  • That starts to become serious numbers,
  • much more than 0.2 percent.
  • Having that data would be great.
  • And then being able to show that this
  • is the economic impact of not being able to hold a job.
  • You know, if I had been able to keep my job making
  • fifty thousand dollars a year to right now working at Wegmans
  • making twenty thousand?
  • That's thirty thousand dollars more a year I
  • could have been taxed on, I could have
  • been putting into the economy.
  • How much better off would the state be?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • Right.
  • What would you say to a young person
  • who is questioning, is saying, I'm not me in my own body?
  • What would you say to them in terms of--
  • well, just what would you say to them?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: First thing I would say is congratulations.
  • Congratulations on recognizing and accepting
  • the fact that there's something unique and special about you.
  • And be very honest with them saying, you know,
  • this is a tough road.
  • It's a lot tougher than what you may think it's going to be,
  • but those who have come before us, both this child and me,
  • have made it easier than what it's
  • been for those who came before.
  • That there are services, there are people on out there
  • who can help.
  • To stay strong, to stay positive,
  • stay true to yourself.
  • Because it's not just a fact-- not just
  • a case of being transgender or being
  • gay or lesbian or bi or what have you.
  • Comes down to living an authentic life.
  • And I think that's what's happened with me.
  • You know?
  • Once I made it through puberty 2.0,
  • you know, nowadays I am who I am because I
  • live an authentic life.
  • And that has so empowered me just by itself.
  • When I talk to groups and I have a lot
  • of straight people in the audience
  • or cisgendered people in the audience, I say,
  • "You know, this isn't just about trans, this is about everyone.
  • Be positive, hold your head up high, be proud of who you are.
  • It's living an authentic life."
  • And I say it then I see heads nod going, you know,
  • that's true.
  • And, spinning it that way, all we're doing
  • is trying to be authentic and honest with ourselves.
  • I would tell them to be strong, be honest.
  • There are places out there to get help,
  • and if there's anything I can do to help I will.
  • And that they're not alone.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What are you most proud of?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: My son.
  • I have two kids, a daughter and a son.
  • My daughter right now is not talking with me.
  • We had a few issues between us and I have a few suspicions
  • that I won't go into.
  • My son has been my strongest and best
  • advocate and ally from the word go.
  • He has agreed to be my gentleman of honor.
  • Took him half a heartbeat to say yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And how old is he?
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: He is seventeen.
  • He'll be-- he will have just turned eighteen when
  • our wedding comes in August.
  • And I was starting to go to St. Mark's Episcopal Church
  • in Newark.
  • Catholic church there, when I came on
  • out there said, "Thank you, we no longer need your services."
  • It is what it is.
  • Not all churches are like that and I'll
  • have to tell you some day about the great late parish of St.
  • Andrews the Apostle in Syracuse.
  • But that's for another time.
  • And so it was their annual feast day.
  • Now, St. Marks is an old parish.
  • I was in my early fifties and I was one of the youngsters.
  • So my son came with me and, you know,
  • getting him to go to church is like pulling teeth
  • without Novocaine.
  • But he came anyhow and downstairs
  • they had this quiz about the parish and I knew nothing.
  • My son is brilliant.
  • He blew off an IQ test and still scored one hundred forty-one.
  • I mean, literally, that is-- no, he's genius quality.
  • And so when I brought him back to his other home
  • he said, "Oh, yeah, I did this and then she did that,
  • and I did this and she got that, and her answer was this
  • but my answer was this and my answer was right."
  • And all the way my ex was going him, his, he.
  • And finally, you know, after a little bit he looked at her
  • and said, "What are you talking about?"
  • "Talking about your dad, right?"
  • "Yes."
  • "He's a guy."
  • He looked at her and said, "No, she's not."
  • You know, that was a few years ago.
  • He's always known that if things got ever tough between him
  • and his other parent he can come stay with me.
  • Door is always open.
  • For-- there was an incident there
  • where I thought he would be.
  • And I patched things up between him
  • and his mother simply because I knew
  • it was a better district than what I was in.
  • And it broke my heart.
  • I so wanted him living with me because he
  • would have been so much happier, but would not
  • have had a lot of the academic opportunities he had
  • by staying in Baldwinsville.
  • So I'm proud of my son because I raised him to be accepting.
  • He had to grow up fast.
  • But he accepts people for who they are.
  • My daughter tends to accept people for who they are.
  • I think this simply cut a little close to home,
  • and the fact that I was outed to her before I could out myself I
  • think hurt (unintelligible).
  • EVELYN BAILEY: That is probably one of the most difficult
  • things to move beyond, whether you are trans,
  • whether you're gay, whether you're bisexual,
  • or however you identify.
  • It's very different when you are in control
  • of sharing who you are--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --versus hearing it through the back door
  • or in a way that is not from you.
  • Even from other friends.
  • A lot of what you have said in terms of what would have helped
  • and the future is visibility.
  • Visibility is not obvious.
  • I said this the other day at a small group meeting.
  • If you're black, if you're Hispanic, if you're Asian,
  • and you have cultural features that clearly indicate that,
  • there they are right in front of you.
  • You can't avoid and you can't hide and you can't say--
  • you don't have a choice of whether to say I'm black
  • or I'm not.
  • When you're gay-- when you're white,
  • first of all, when you're gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans,
  • you have choices.
  • And that choice often comes down to how comfortable you
  • are with yourself, how much you have grown
  • into being that person, and able to not
  • fear the repercussions of being who you are.
  • That's a journey that takes a lifetime.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: It does.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Because there are always new beginnings
  • and new coming outs.
  • The differences between people, it
  • seems to me in the current political climate,
  • are becoming much more divisive--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Very much so.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --than previously in our history.
  • We have gone through a period of assimilation,
  • and now if you don't assimilate and you
  • quote unquote "stick your neck out," it's not acceptable.
  • Five, four, three years ago, it was
  • acceptable to be demanding of rights,
  • to be demanding of marriage, to be
  • demanding of legal protections under the law.
  • Now those legal protections, even
  • under the law that many people have,
  • are beginning to be taken away.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: They are.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And we have an acceptance of that.
  • We have a culture which in some parts of the country
  • no longer identifies that removal as wrong.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: To quote Ben Franklin,
  • "Sacrificing essential liberties for temporary (unintelligible).
  • Someone whose-- those who sacrifice essential liberties
  • for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security."
  • And I have people at work who don't mind the fact that,
  • oh, I got to trade a few things off to protect ourselves.
  • I'm OK with that.
  • Well, no, it's not good.
  • I-- my heroes were people who made a stand, single people who
  • made a stand.
  • Horatius at the Bridge: "Out spake brave
  • Horatius, Captain of the gate.
  • Death comes to every man, sooneth or late.
  • And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds,
  • for the ashes of his fathers and temples of his gods."
  • No.
  • I didn't take Latin.
  • No.
  • Whatever gave you that idea.
  • Cicero before the Roman Senate outlining the whole coup
  • attempt by Catiline.
  • Then Colonel Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain,
  • the twenty-second Maine.
  • He was down to one hundred plus men,
  • out of ammunition with the whole Reb army
  • coming on up Little Round Top.
  • Tactically he should have withdrawn.
  • He did a bayonet charge and won the battle by holding them off.
  • Single people who made a stand.
  • And there were others, and that's the type of person
  • I want to be.
  • Had I known to put my neck out there, I'm OK with that risk.
  • I'm OK that it means I have an illuminated bull's eye on me.
  • I'm going to say--
  • I say, fine, bring it on.
  • Because I think it will make a difference.
  • Not only for me and the rest of the trans community
  • and the rest of the LGB community,
  • but I think it will make a stand and make
  • a difference for everyone.
  • And I really believe that this fight for our liberties
  • really is a right for--
  • is a battle to secure the rights for all Americans.
  • I firmly believe it.
  • I realize it's ideological and innocent
  • and everything else like that, but you know what?
  • I don't care.
  • It's how I believe.
  • You know, it's our fight, it's our battle.
  • But everyone wins.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, there are two things
  • that I hear you saying, and it's really a privilege
  • to share with you some of the political and philosophical
  • ideas.
  • And it's also a privilege to meet you because--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Thank you.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --I've heard of you and not had the honor.
  • If one person is not free, no one is free.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yep.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And Patrick Henry stood up
  • and said, "I may disagree with what you say but I will fight
  • for your right to say it."
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And we have lost, in my opinion,
  • some of that character.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I think it's more than just some.
  • We've lost a lot of that character.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • And so until the pendulum begins to swing back
  • in that direction, we are on the brink of not only
  • not being free, but of losing the freedoms that we've already
  • gained.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I agree wholeheartedly.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And I'm beyond--
  • well, I'm not beyond tonight--
  • I've protested and have led an activist life
  • for most of my life, but we need women, men, children,
  • senior citizens to stand up and take a stand.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Absolutely.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And put the finger in the dyke,
  • to close the avenue for destruction.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I agree wholeheartedly.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: That really appears
  • to me to be part of not only what your journey has been,
  • but probably what your journey will become.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I would agree.
  • I would like that.
  • It's making a difference.
  • And this is an important difference it will make.
  • It's not just some better products,
  • it's not helping some kid pass a test.
  • This comes down to civil liberty, the right to be free.
  • And we're heading so rapidly into
  • a totalitarian fascist state.
  • And I've heard people from both sides
  • of the political spectrum-- and we're not
  • talking the extreme sides either,
  • we're talking-- both sides of the political aisle talk
  • about us heading towards a second civil war because
  • of the disparaging in rights, in wealth.
  • It would not surprise me in the slightest.
  • It worries me as what would happened afterwards.
  • It worries me as to what would happen if it doesn't happen.
  • The Occupy Movement received press overseas.
  • How much press did it receive here in the United States?
  • You know?
  • It takes one person to stand up and make that difference
  • and I want to be that person.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I think you're well
  • on your way to being that.
  • And there will be many, many people
  • who will support you in your--
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Thank you.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --journey.
  • Thank you for sharing yourself and your story.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: My pleasure.
  • If there's is one last thing I could share?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Absolutely.
  • SHAUNA O'TOOLE: It's the--
  • my own personal motto.
  • It's on the back of my book and it's
  • called "Doors are meant to be opened, not hidden behind.
  • Go forth and conquer."
  • And that's how I try to live my life.
  • And it's been an honor and pleasure
  • sharing my story with you.
  • Thank you.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, thank you.