Audio Interview, Shauna O'Toole, April 10, 2014
- EVELYN BAILEY: Today is Thursday, April 10, 2014.
- I'm sitting here at the Galen's Library with Shauna O'Toole
- who has written a couple of books and whom is going to--
- and we're going to do an interview about her story
- and her experiences.
- So, Shauna, first tell me, how many books have you written?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Oh, let me see here now.
- If you were to go to Amazon, you'll
- find You Can't Shave in a Minimart Bathroom, which
- is my transition memoir, a couple of novellas, Bull
- with Wings, The Mission, and a novel I recently published
- called Recycled which is a, I want to say,
- like a slightly futuristic political thriller.
- Takes place mid-century, mid-twenty-first century,
- where the United States is basically
- a totalitarian state run by a perverted version of the Green
- Party, which leads to a second civil war, and from there
- a war from independence from the People's Republic of China.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Well, they own so much of this country
- already, at that point during the civil war,
- the president calls for help.
- China comes to provide aid to secure and protect
- its resources here and annexes the United States.
- So the model of the book is reduce, reuse, repress.
- (laughter)
- EVELYN BAILEY: Have you always been involved
- in political activities?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Oh, heavens, no.
- Back in my before days, before I came out to myself,
- and I didn't come out to myself until I was forty-five--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Where are you from?
- Are you from New York?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I was born up north in Canada,
- but most of my life has been New York state, Pennsylvania.
- I call myself a Rochesterian.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I went to high school in Le Roy,
- went to college at Brockport and at RIT.
- Most of my life has been here in the Rochester area
- and I call Rochester home.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And when were you at Brockport?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I was there from 1975 until 1980.
- I was on the five year plan.
- I ran into physical chemistry which
- separated the men from the boys, even though that phrase no
- longer applies to me.
- I'm going to warn you straight up,
- assuming I can use that phrase, that I do a lot of humor
- simply because I do.
- And I--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Pam shared that with me.
- (O'Toole laughs)
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: So I did my earth science major in one
- year.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, wow.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Could not get a--
- find a job on earth science directly.
- Got my teaching certification, couldn't find a job
- in teaching because the year before I
- got my certification there was a massive wave of retirements
- and all the positions were filled.
- So I went into industry for the next eighteen years.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What industry?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I was five years at a now defunct detergent
- company.
- Did quality control, product development.
- Thirteen years in the research labs
- at Eastman Kodak which I loved.
- Absolutely loved.
- After thirteen years, twelve were great.
- Year number twelve they ended up taking me
- to the hospital with every sign of a heart attack.
- I was, what, forty-two?
- But year thirteen I left Kodak the same way how I started,
- looking forward to going to work because it was going
- to be something new and fun and exciting and different
- and would make a difference.
- I was eleven years a high school science teacher.
- Taught earth science, living environment,
- I could probably fake my way through the physics
- and chemistry.
- Taught environmental science and now the best job I could find
- is chopping veggies at Wegmans.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- Were you transitioned as a teacher or did you--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I was a tenured high school science
- teacher when I transitioned, and that was a whole--
- it was, it was a difficult time and it wasn't necessarily
- because of the district.
- The year before I ended up transitioning,
- I was the lead story on the local news,
- made the five, six and eleven o'clock news.
- Sodus teacher to change sex.
- I wasn't out to my kids yet.
- It was tough.
- Things got delayed by a year.
- The year I transitioned I was placed on a teacher improvement
- plan.
- I know.
- Which was the right of a principal to do at any time.
- But, you know, I was--
- I thought I was ready for this jump, to be myself 24/7,
- and realized that what I thought was well-prepared was basic
- information and I was absolutely completely overwhelmed
- by the amount of socialization--
- pardon me not getting that word out easily--
- that I had to go through.
- And with hormone replacement therapy, what I discovered--
- here in hindsight--
- is that your body stays at the age
- that you're at but your brain de-evolves back
- to being fourteen.
- So my brain went through puberty a second time, puberty 2.0,
- and it's a lot less fun the second time.
- And I was not able to complete the improvement plan.
- I won't go into some of the details
- simply for reasons of trying to legally protect myself,
- but I was-- ended up being given the choice
- to resign or be fired.
- So I resigned and looked for work.
- And it was amazing how fast telephone interviews would
- end when they heard this voice associated
- with the name of Shauna Marie.
- And so looking to go back to school for career number four.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Good for you.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Thank you.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Can you share with me a little bit about--
- you lived in Le Roy for a time.
- Were you at that time thinking about transitioning
- or were you uncomfortable with who you were?
- And what, if any, resources might
- have been available at the time and that sort of thing?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Well, I first started
- to question who I was back when I was about four or five.
- We were living in Utica at the time
- and my dad was doing his residency in psychiatry
- at Utica State Hospital.
- I've always joked that I was his first and only failure
- as a psychiatrist.
- (laughter)
- You ought to come when I do my book talks.
- I'm like this but even more so.
- And back then it was a serious mental illness
- being gay and lesbian.
- If you were a transgender of any sort,
- actually I would have been listed as a homosexual
- with transvestite tendencies, if I recall the correct diagnosis.
- It was treated with aversion therapy, forced indoctrination,
- and electroshock.
- All of which I avoided.
- Being as young as what I was, I didn't have any playmates.
- And at the time, the American thing to do
- was to go for the Sunday afternoon drive.
- So my Teddy bear and I had our own adventures,
- and the bear would drive and I would be in the passenger seat
- because that's where my mom sat.
- And I ended up liberating one of her dresses from the closet.
- I said, "Oh, shiny," not realizing
- that this silvery gray chiffon dress was
- something she had been saving for and had never worn.
- So finding it in the bottom of my closet was not a good thing.
- And she came out and said, "It's wrong, it's bad, it's evil,
- don't ever do this again."
- You know, I loved my mom.
- She said it was wrong and I said, OK.
- But all the way through childhood
- and through high school and beyond, you know,
- I always had something-- it was like part of my psyche
- was clinging to a lifeline.
- But at the same time, the media messages
- were so anti-gay and lesbian and trans.
- For example, you know, there were movies
- out where a sweet, unsuspecting housewife was lured away
- by this lesbian looking for a romance.
- And so lesbians were portrayed as homewreckers.
- Gays were portrayed as being criminals.
- The movie Diamonds are Forever, who were the two assassins?
- An overtly stereotype over-the-top gay couple.
- And if you were trans, you were a psychopath.
- Dressed to Kill, who was the murderer?
- The psychiatrist who is transgender.
- In, what, Silence of the Lambs, who was the psychopath?
- The person who was-- who was trans.
- Granted, he was-- he had other psychological issues that
- prevented him, but there in the beginning of the movie
- he saw these women with different parts of their body
- skinned and they're trying to figure out, well,
- what's going on, why different parts?
- It took me ten seconds to put the pieces together
- that whoever this was was making a female suit to wear.
- So the whole idea of coming out or transitioning
- was so far away because I was taught this was wrong,
- this was bad, this was evil, and there was no place safe to go
- for information.
- So from childhood on up through my late thirties,
- early forties, I thought I was the only one around.
- I didn't have-- there was no internet
- or didn't have access to it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Correct.
- And were you able--
- did you ever share that with anyone?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Never.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Never.
- Very scary place for a child to be totally alone like that.
- But who could I tell?
- I mean, the whole world was so anti this.
- Was there something wrong with me?
- I don't want to be different from anyone else,
- I don't want to be picked on or bullied.
- I was already heavy.
- I got picked on for that.
- Add this to it?
- Are you kidding?
- So, no, didn't have any thoughts like that.
- There was no information.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What precipitated your
- being catapulted into your own transition then?
- What-- I mean--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Halloween.
- Halloween 2003 is when the world changed.
- Now, up until this point, all the way
- through childhood, high school, college, single life,
- married life--
- people ask, why did I get married,
- was I trying to prove myself a man?
- Obviously it didn't work.
- It was a case of I fell in love.
- I think in hindsight I fell more in love
- with the idea of being in love as opposed to with her
- and that came later.
- But that's the reason I got married.
- I wasn't trying to prove myself a man.
- But all this while I had this internal conflict,
- this Dr. Jekyll and Miss Hyde personality, if you will.
- Not from a psychological standpoint--
- EVELYN BAILEY: No.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: --but two parts of my psyche at war
- with who I was.
- So we were living in Syracuse at the time
- and, and the conversation between the two psyches
- went something like this, starting off with Miss Hyde
- going, "You know, Halloween's coming up,
- what are you thinking about doing for that?"
- Dr. Jekyll responded, "Now, don't even talk to me.
- Every time I talk to you I get myself in trouble.
- That's why I have you in the box,
- it's been welded shut, chains, locks, you're not getting out."
- "I'm just asking, what are you doing for Halloween?"
- Dr. Jekyll, being innocent, said, "Well, I'm not sure.
- I could go as a mad scientist."
- I was a science teacher at the time and--
- but that's not really a costume.
- That's who I am.
- You know, I don't know if you've ever
- seen the television show Home Improvement and the show
- within of Tool Time, Al Boreland, that's
- what I used to look like.
- Beard, shortish hair, toolbelt, flannel shirts.
- Tim, that's not a safe thing to do.
- It's who I was as well so I could--
- But that's not a costume either so I just
- may forget about it this year.
- It's good.
- "Well, have you ever thought about, oh,
- maybe taking a walk on the wild side?"
- "Are you crazy?
- Never happen.
- It's just ain't going to happen."
- "Well, tell you what, you talk to her best friends--"
- her being my spouse--
- "if they think it's a good idea will you do it?"
- "Sure.
- It just ain't going to fly.
- Trust me."
- I talked to a number of her best friends
- and said, "This is what I was thinking of doing,
- do you think it would fly?"
- And wouldn't you know, every single one
- thought it was a great idea.
- They were going to try to get their husbands
- to do the same thing.
- And so part of my brain was going, doh!
- Doh!
- And the other part was going, excellent,
- everything is going according to plan.
- So Miss Hyde was very happy.
- She had set me up.
- And, you know, it was one of these where there
- are two ways of how to do it.
- You could be a parody or you could be passable.
- You know, I've reached a point where I've--
- it's go big or go home.
- EVELYN BAILEY: All the way or none of the way.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Oh, that's right.
- That's right.
- So talked to the person that I've been seeing for my hair,
- and now I've been going for over--
- well over twenty years and said, "Sue, can you do this?"
- And she looked at me and said, "Are you really sure
- you want to do this?"
- I said, "Sure.
- It'll be fun.
- It's Halloween."
- You know, and trust me, hairdressers, like bartenders,
- read people and they know everything.
- And she said, "OK.
- I can do this."
- So during the ensuing month, you know, thank
- goodness for the internet at this point,
- I bought an olive drab skirt, it was mid-calf,
- inch and a half heels, cable knit sweater, black purse that
- was a Coach knock off, and showed up
- at Sue's with everything.
- Three hours in the chair.
- Hair, makeup, nails, the whole nine yards.
- Everything.
- And I stepped out of the bathroom-- not the closet--
- and looked at myself in the mirror,
- and by God there was a woman staring back at me.
- You know, I raised my hand up and she raised her's up,
- I put my hand to my face she put her's to her face,
- and there was this moment of panic.
- And Sue told me she saw this.
- It was this incredible moment of panic
- because I've been told this was wrong, this was bad,
- this was evil all my life.
- But then I waited one instant longer.
- At that point Dr. Jekyll realized
- that she was Miss Hyde.
- They were one and the same.
- So at that point--
- people asked me, who was the first person I came out to?
- The first person I came out to was myself
- because I had been hiding from myself for,
- literally, for decades.
- Sue was second because she was right there.
- So at that point I knew I had to deal with this.
- So I went to the Halloween party and I walked in and one
- of the other women-- and even then it was not one
- of the women but one of the other women, I was already--
- part of my brain was identifying here--
- went, ahhhh, screamed.
- I was immediately ushered into the kitchen
- and I had a dozen women circling around me
- like vultures looking for the slightest flaw.
- Is that your real hair?
- Yes.
- It's my real hair.
- They checked the nails.
- They were perfect.
- Looked at the entire outfit.
- The jewelry I had borrowed matched the color of the skirt.
- I had a couple tell me later they
- were very upset because I looked better in a skirt
- than what they did.
- Which, to be catty, is true.
- My spouse took one look at me, turned and walked out.
- Now, she knew I was doing this, not to det-- not to the extent
- but she knew I was doing this.
- And she walked out of the room and I said, oh, crap,
- and tried to follow her into the next room.
- She turned, walked away and went home.
- And that was Halloween 2003 and she has not
- looked my way since.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What happened when you got home?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I was ignored.
- Conversations-- face to face conversation,
- she kept me at either her three o'clock or nine o'clock
- position.
- So face to face I'd be talking to the side of her face.
- She just couldn't look at me.
- It was very painful.
- So November first is when I started
- my journal which became my memoir,
- You Can't Shave in a Minimart Bathroom.
- So when people read that, they're reading my journal.
- And I wrote it all as letters.
- I've take out "Dear Kind and Gentle
- Reader," which is what they were all addressed to.
- But they're very simple, very short diary entries.
- I kept them readable.
- It's a fast read and I write the way how I speak.
- So that was when I knew I had to start dealing with this.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And once you kind of came
- to that realization, what year was that?
- Oh, 2003.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: 2003.
- I was forty-five.
- EVELYN BAILEY: There was the internet.
- Were there other resources available to you?
- Now, you were-- were you in Wayne County at the time?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: No.
- At the time I was living in Baldwinsville.
- Syracuse area.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And locally, not initially.
- Locally, all I wanted to do was find resources on the internet.
- And I found a--
- first thing I did was I Googled transsexual
- and I came up something like nine million hits,
- half of which were porn, and almost the rest of the hits
- were places selling plus size clothing
- at five to six times the price at what you
- would get at Kmart or Wal-Mart or Target
- or anything else like that.
- You know, Capitalists, I get that.
- But I did find a couple of sites online that were bulletin board
- support sites.
- And yet this is before Facebook, before Myspace.
- I think it was before Myspace.
- And had a lot of support there.
- Met some wonderful people online through that,
- several of which I talked-- talk with on a regular basis
- on the phone.
- I've yet to meet face to face to face but hope to do so.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And--
- EVELYN BAILEY: --in terms of Baldwinsville or Syracuse,
- there was no safe space that you could go to and participate
- in a meeting or--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: None that I knew of.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --support group.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: None that I knew of.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: It was--
- after being online for about a year,
- I said, I need something more and came out to my physician.
- And it was one of these where--
- you know, so I made an appointment,
- doc-- doctor came in and even then I had female physicians.
- I've almost always had a female physician.
- That was just always more comfortable.
- Ding, ding.
- Sign!
- You know, think about this.
- And so she came in, did a physical,
- said, "You seem healthy."
- And I-- about to walk and I said, "Would you
- like to know why I came?"
- And she looked at me, "I'm so sorry.
- I never asked that.
- I am so sorry, it's been a hell of a day.
- So what brought you here?"
- So I came out to her and said, "You know,
- I am looking for a reference to see a counselor
- on gender identity.
- And here with the referral my insurance will cover it."
- So found one down in Auburn.
- I had to-- my doctor had no concept of care
- for transgender patients.
- Was open to it, was definitely not against--
- you know, I brought a copy of the Harry Benjamin standards
- with me because that was the Bible at the time
- and shared it with her, gave her a copy,
- and said-- looked through, said, "Yeah, we can do this.
- You know, these, these are all very reas-- reasonable things.
- You know, a lot of the initial work, yeah, we--
- I can do.
- We can do this."
- So I started seeing a counselor and it was so painful.
- So absolutely painful because I kept
- talking about my gender hidden for so long.
- Opening on up was like yanking teeth.
- But I also knew I had to do it.
- And eventually it got to the point
- where I so looked forward to my monthly visits.
- And I think she had me pegged as transsexual long before I did.
- She would comment that I was the most cautious and reserved
- client she had ever had in her career of working
- with transgender patients.
- Or transgender clients, I should say.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Did you ever try to put
- the genie back in the bottle?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: As in pretend that I wasn't trans?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: No.
- Once I came to that realization, Halloween 2003,
- I accepted the fact that I was trans
- and to do anything else would have been destructive.
- And I knew I had to deal with it.
- I had been in denial for far too many years.
- And realizing that I was not the only one, that there
- were people I could talk with, was a God send.
- And so realizing I wasn't alone helped me through this.
- In terms of being me out safely just did not happen.
- I had no safe place at the point and--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Except for your therapist.
- I mean--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Even with my therapist.
- You know.
- And I always went in male mode instead of me.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- Right.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Until one auspicious day.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But you must have felt
- some sense of this was an OK place to explore who you were--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --and be open about that--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --to some extent or another.
- Otherwise, why would you have continued the therapy.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Exactly.
- Oh, no.
- Don't get me wrong here.
- It was a case of--
- unlike Rochester where there were safe places to go
- and there are spouses whose partner they allow
- will go on out or accept them as being trans,
- such was not my case at the time.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: So there was no safe place for me
- to be out as me except when I talked with my counselor.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And even then I would
- go from school to the counselor and then back to the house.
- I couldn't change.
- There was no--
- EVELYN BAILEY: And were you still living with your--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes
- EVELYN BAILEY: --wife?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
- It was April 2006.
- My kids and I had different spring breaks
- and we had planned to go on out to the Outer Banks together.
- We had done that a year previously.
- She had family that rented a large house down there
- on the ocean.
- And you know, divide the cost up among five or six families
- it becomes dirt cheap.
- So you know, split the cost and then you
- either do several nights of doing dishes
- or you cook for everyone.
- Trust me, with this figure, I loved to cook
- and so I cooked for the household.
- And you know, the other women came by-- and, yes, even then,
- even in male mode, it was the other women,
- "Do you need a hand with anything?"
- "No, no, no.
- I have the veggies going to right here,
- the salad is all made, so and so is on out
- handling the grilling of the-- of the meat here.
- Everything here is going."
- They all looked at me and said, "Oh, OK.
- You don't need our help?"
- I said, "No, I got it covered.
- Not a problem."
- So anyhow, that was 2005.
- The last family vacation we took, 2006,
- she went with the kids to the Outer Bank
- and while the cat's away the mice will boogie.
- And so I would get home from teaching,
- do whatever chores I needed to do outside,
- and then I would be me inside the house.
- Now, I had, at this point, was building up a small wardrobe
- that I kept in the back of my pickup truck
- in large opaque Tupperware box.
- I brought it inside and started to explore being me
- and realized just how right this felt.
- At this point I realized that body and soul had
- been in this court for so long.
- Finally looking in the ref--
- in the mirror and seeing me, suddenly I
- was in a state of harmony.
- And, you know, it was like moving from a local coffee shop
- where I used to sing and do music to suddenly being
- at the Hollywood Bowl, the Los Angeles Philharmonic is
- your Orchestra, you have backup singers,
- you have more special effects than Garth Brooks,
- more costume changes than Reba McEntire--
- now you know what I listen to--
- and you walk on the stage to twenty thousand
- screaming fans all calling your name and you own the place.
- And that's what it was like, and I almost could not go back.
- The genie was way out of the bottle at this point.
- And so the weekend before I pushed myself back
- into the bottle knowing it was going to be temporary.
- Because at this point I accepted the fact
- that I was transgender, I accepted
- the fact I was transsexual and I would need to transition.
- It was no longer an if but now a when.
- My counselor, whom I saw that week,
- saw me for the first time.
- Didn't-- she said I could come as me any time,
- and when I showed up, denim skirt, heels, top.
- Went to go see my friend Sue and I went as another--
- I was just another woman in her shop.
- And it was phenomenal.
- She just looked at me, her jaw hit
- the ground, going, "You look great, here, quick,
- come into my office, let's talk."
- And she was surprised at how fast
- I had gone from not accepting myself
- as transsexual to accepting.
- But, you know, heart of hearts, I'm still a scientist.
- I need data.
- This was the data I needed.
- And so that was April 2006.
- June 28, 2006, at four seventeen in the afternoon,
- I was handed my bag and told, you
- can see the kids on the weekend.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- Did you have a place to go?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I did.
- What happened there was--
- communication broken down between my spouse
- and myself completely.
- To say things were chilly between us
- would be like saying Antarctica gets a little nippy
- in the wintertime.
- It was awful.
- We were literally at a point of emailing each other
- from across the house.
- That's how bad communication was.
- And I told her, listen, we need help
- to be able to talk with each other.
- You know, I don't care who the counselor is.
- Find one that you're comfortable with, I will go
- and I will be there.
- Well, turns out it was her counselor,
- because she had been seeing one for a number of things
- that I won't go into.
- And she read a letter saying, we just
- can't live together anymore and she knew everything just
- needed me to admit it.
- So I came out to her.
- Wasn't how I planned on it but I think it's, what,
- rule number seven.
- In my book I have a section called da rules--
- D-A rules-- da rules.
- And if I recall, rule number seven is, from Murphy's laws
- of combat, no battle plan remains intact
- once the enemy has been engaged.
- And basically that held on up.
- I had a plan to do it in a different setting
- but it happened and--
- so between April and June I had come out to a colleague of mine
- where I was teaching, someone who
- was in a lesbian relationship.
- It turns out that she had pegged me
- as being transsexual years earlier,
- back when I still had the Al Boreland beard
- on my face which looks nothing like what I look like now.
- And she had pegged me then and she
- said that if anything should happen
- I was welcome to come stay with her and her family.
- And so the last week, a couple of days
- before that infamous Thursday, I had talked with her and said,
- "You know, is that offer still open?
- I just have a bad feeling that something is about to break."
- And she said, "Absolutely."
- So I was handed my bag, and called and was said,
- "Come on over, door's open and we're ready."
- So I was very fortunate I had a safe place to go.
- If I hadn't, odds are we would not
- be having this conversation right now.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- Once that separation occurred, once you were, quote unquote,
- "into the nest of transitioning in," did you find
- any more acceptance from people who you interacted with?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: There were a few--
- EVELYN BAILEY: I mean--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: There were a few colleagues I came out to
- and they were very supportive and accepting.
- Which was wonderful.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Because it's kind of
- hard to hide not living with your spouse
- and living with a friend and--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
- And-- well, I spent the summer there and right
- about the end of summer, you know, the three of us
- talked and we decided that really the best
- thing that I needed was a room to be me, and not just there
- in the house but my own place.
- So I ended up getting my own place after that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And were you still in--
- were you in Sodus?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I was still teaching in Sodus.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: So a couple of days after--
- well, actually, a couple-- a few days before the end of school,
- spoke with my union rep and said,
- "This is what I'm going to be doing."
- I wanted to give the union rep a heads up.
- And the union rep was, "Oh, OK.
- Well, tell me more."
- Very accepting.
- Found out later that my building rep went
- to her backup rep going, you won't believe
- what just happened to us!
- Because she was having difficulty.
- She kept it together for me but she
- was having a real difficult time getting her arms around this,
- and so chatted with both.
- Chatted with our diversity manager,
- and somehow immediately afterwards, the upper echelon
- knew about this.
- So I came out to my principal.
- "Oh, really?
- You're doing this?"
- He already knew.
- My superintendent at the time had already
- looked up out of date articles.
- So I forgot-- once you're out, you're out
- and it simply spreads like wildfire.
- So the plan was for me to transition September '07.
- Legally, I could have done it September '06 but I sure
- as hell wasn't ready and the school wasn't ready and no one
- was ready and I wasn't out to my kids yet.
- And so I figure September '07 gave a whole year to get things
- set.
- And then June 22, 2007 came along
- and I was the lead story for the five, six, eleven o'clock news
- and made the next morning roundup.
- Sodus teacher to change sex.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That must have freaked you out.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I was doing the item analysis
- on the Regents' exam and I get a photocop-- or a phone call,
- rather.
- Hello?
- And it was the principal's secretary.
- He was going, "You have an immediate meeting
- with the superintendent in the principal's office.
- I am calling your building rep and union president for you.
- You are to stop everything you are doing
- and come down here immediately."
- And I'm going, what the hell have I done now?
- Now, just--
- EVELYN BAILEY: I know.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Just as an aside, you know,
- during the year, gearing towards September '07, my appearance
- had slowly been going from male to more androgynous male
- to androgynous and heading towards androgynous female.
- My hair had been getting long and--
- and when-- and on occasion I pushed it little far
- and I would get phone call-- get a sudden meeting
- with the superintendent saying, "Pull it back,
- you're going too far."
- I said, "Yes, ma'am."
- But even so far as to not have my hair in a ponytail,
- I have a call from the superintendent.
- But it is what it is.
- And so I'm going, what the hell have I done now?
- And he said, "Just come down here.
- Don't talk to anyone, just come down."
- Superintendent comes in saying that her secretary had received
- a phone call from WHEC TV 10 about the teacher who
- was changing sex, that they had already talked to the school
- board, and wanted to know if the superintendent had
- any comments to make before they went with the story.
- And she wanted to know if I had spoken with the press.
- And I said, "Absolutely not."
- And she knew I was telling the truth
- because she could see the blood draining from my face.
- So she had to return the phone call.
- So my principal, my union president, and I
- think one of another administrator
- and my superintendent were all there
- and she returned the phone call.
- She handled it beautifully.
- But all the while, you know, I could tell the reporter simply
- wasn't buying this.
- You know, if this was happening this
- would be an internal personal personnel issue.
- We just don't talk about that.
- And all the while I could feel my blood pressure rise,
- my lips had literally gone numb, my hands
- were starting-- my hands were underneath the table,
- they were starting to shake violently,
- and I had to close my eyes and concentrate to calm down.
- Because I figured if I had an aneurysm or a stroke or a heart
- attack right then, it would have been
- construed as unprofessional behavior on my part.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: You know--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Don't you love--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I know!
- EVELYN BAILEY: --the language?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And so she handled
- it and she did a great job.
- She-- and we all agreed that the reporter
- wasn't buying any of it.
- So I get back up to my room and people are coming on up going,
- are you OK?
- Is everything fine?
- And I go, yes, just leave me be.
- Twelve-thirty in the afternoon, principal gets on saying,
- "There is an immediate meeting for all personnel
- in the auditorium."
- I'm going, oh, bloody fucking hell.
- Pardon my language.
- I don't need this.
- So I go down and the superintendent
- says that there was a news truck out front talking
- to students and teachers coming on campus,
- and wanting to iterate--
- reiterate that, you know, personnel issues,
- talking about that, only happens through me, the superintendent,
- and that it's a termination offense for anyone
- to be on out there talking about personal issues.
- That also goes for the school board.
- And she went to say, "This is what's going on and said,
- yes, someone is going to be transitioning next year."
- I had about 80 percent of the faculty and staff turn
- and look at me.
- They--
- EVELYN BAILEY: You were the identified problem.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I found out the next day that everyone,
- and I mean everyone, even though they never
- used my name on the air, everyone
- was texting and IMing using my name.
- Now, my daughter knew some of my students through Facebook.
- Hey, what's this I hear about your dad?
- What are you talking about?
- Well, there was the news truck here
- and they said he's becoming a she and duh duh duh duh duh duh
- duh.
- So my students outed me to my daughter.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yeah.
- If it had waited two weeks, two lousy weeks,
- it would have been a non-issue.
- Because the following week I was going to meet with my attorney,
- start HRT, and, and--
- pardon me-- come out to the kids.
- Two weeks.
- You know, if you want to hear God laugh, tell God your plans.
- Friendly fire isn't.
- That is rule five.
- Rule six, check your six often.
- Come to find out that it was some members of the faculty
- and staff, some of which I believe who are retired,
- who contacted the TV station about this to try to protect
- the children from me.
- And I was outed.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: So at that point I was out of the closet.
- I had to tell my spouse--
- I was still married at the time--
- this is what happened.
- I didn't do this but I--
- you need to know what happened.
- And she came back with some very, very, very negative
- phraseology.
- It's amazing just how nasty you can be in two sentences.
- And everything ended up being pushed back by a year.
- So didn't transition until-- or I didn't start teaching as me
- until September '08.
- I went full time August 22, 2008 at six twenty-two
- in the morning.
- Sunrise.
- What better time to start a new life than a sunrise?
- EVELYN BAILEY: And you taught at Sodus for a year after that?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I left in 2011.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- So there were a few years.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Right.
- The kids never had a problem.
- At this point, the state of education
- had changed from learning something to passing exams.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And it was test, test, test all the time
- and I was being--
- I needed to teach in a way that was not
- conducive to my methodology.
- My way worked.
- I mean, I had a 92.7 percent pass rate.
- Then they messed up the meeting pattern,
- they messed up what they were learning in the lower grades
- so they came into my classroom with almost no science
- background, or a spit level.
- Because everything was reading first.
- Well, you can read science.
- But it was read, read read, read,
- and they came into my classroom still not being able to read.
- So my pass rate went from a 92 percent to a 67 percent.
- And I'm surprised it was that high.
- And worked back up into this upper seventies, low eighties,
- but I was having to teach in a way that
- just didn't work for me.
- Reached a point-- and with this, having
- to deal with the legal issues with my then spouse,
- the socialization issues.
- And even though I was accepted, it was still tough.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, God.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And, you know, there
- are some medical reports that link estrogen to depression.
- I became serious-- seriously and clinically depressed,
- dangerously depressed at a point.
- I was almost at the point where I could barely get myself out
- of bed to come teach.
- My last year I fell behind in a lot of things.
- Did not get things done that needed to get done.
- And I'll be upfront and say I made some serious mistakes
- my last year.
- But the same time, I'll come back and say,
- I should never have been placed in that improvement plan.
- At the time I was not protected by EEOC regulations.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Or the union?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Union didn't do anything for me.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Don't know if they could
- have done anything for me.
- It's the principal's prerogative to put anyone
- on an improvement plan.
- And this was one where I trusted my administration
- and that was a mistake.
- I do not believe that they were out to get me.
- I don't want to give that impression.
- If anything, I think they wanted to make me this phenomenal role
- model for the entire LGBTQI community where,
- look what she is doing and I had a hand in it
- and we're all living under the rainbow banner.
- And GENDA would pass and marriage equality would pass
- and everything would be great.
- I really think that was the impetus for it.
- And it simply was something I just
- couldn't do with the way I was being taught.
- If I-- if I had been left alone I would still be teaching.
- But it is what it is.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Where there, at this point,
- other supports that you had access to?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
- It was after the news story, and they
- interviewed I believe it was Jeanne Gainsburg of the Gay
- Alliance.
- I was doing this totally on my own.
- I never even heard of the Gay Alliance.
- I mean, I was out there on my own.
- EVELYN BAILEY: They're-- they're not really outreaching to Wayne
- County these days or any days.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And so--
- EVELYN BAILEY: And the Empty Closet
- doesn't make it that far.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: No.
- It doesn't.
- And so I-- you know, I saw the interview,
- saw that they were talking.
- Well, what's this Gay Alliance thing?
- So I looked on--
- online and said, oh.
- So I called and said, "You know, there's
- a story on TV about a teacher who is changing sex,
- well, I'm that teacher."
- And the person who picked up was someone from the Empty Closet.
- And I asked, "Well, what is the Empty Closet?"
- Looked at me and said, "It's the newspaper
- for the LGBT community, it's one of the longest around."
- And I go, "Oh, sorry, never heard of it before."
- Sort of, didn't mean to be insulting by not knowing
- the name, what it is but--
- and so, you know, I wanted to speak with someone.
- So I think it was Jeanne who gave me a callback
- and said, "Yes, I want to talk to you!"
- And she put me in touch with the Rochester trans group.
- So I went there and that was the first time I had actually
- been in a room with other members of the trans community.
- Well, I take that back.
- It wasn't the first time.
- There was a group I went to a couple of times in Syracuse,
- but most were cross-dressers as opposed to being transsexual.
- In this case, most of the people who were in this room
- were transsexual.
- I'm going, wow, I'm not alone.
- Even with the internet, simply being in this room--
- I had met more people in that one-- walking
- in than at one time what I ever--
- than what I knew before, all combined together
- in terms of knowing them personally,
- Pam being one of them.
- They were a great support through those first couple
- of years.
- The group ended up breaking up, and from Newark
- on into the meetings, it started to get expensive and I had--
- had to pick up a second job to help
- put my daughter through school.
- So time got tough in order to go and do things.
- But, yeah.
- The Rochester Trans Group was a massive help.
- EVELYN BAILEY: How did you manage to keep your balance?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I'm not sure I always did.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And let me, let me just expand on that
- a little and--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --share with you.
- By that I mean, here you were out in this rural area, pretty
- isolated.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Had a responsible job, tremendous in--
- influence in that job, and a lot of pressure.
- And not just the pressure of moving
- with what was happening to you emotionally,
- physically, and mentally, but--
- I'm a former teacher.
- Teaching is extremely stressful, especially
- when the grade is what determines
- and the percent passing regents exams
- is what determines whether or not
- you're looked upon favorably.
- How did you manage?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: The last couple of years I didn't.
- I was starting to fall apart.
- The pressure of everything was--
- I was starting to crumble under it, especially my last year.
- I became dangerously depressed, suicidal.
- I'm a suicide survivor.
- Spent a night with a rope around my neck.
- But as I was sliding myself off the ledge--
- at this point I had spoken at a number of conferences
- and several local colleges and I had these young adults come up
- to me after, might be right then, might be days later,
- weeks later, even a year or more later
- and it still happens, saying thank you because my story was
- a positive message.
- It was a story of hope, a story of laughter.
- And as I was sliding off I thought,
- if my story ended tragically, what's going to happen to them?
- So I caught myself, put myself back off the ledge,
- and lost my job.
- You know, my first thought was, oh, thank God,
- I don't have to do this anymore.
- But the--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yeah.
- Because I'd reached a point of no return.
- Even without being given the choice to resign or be fired,
- I would love teaching anyway.
- I just couldn't do it anymore.
- I was-- the stress of it was killing me.
- It had nothing to do with my transition,
- it had everything to do with what
- the job was calling me to be.
- And that was to be untrue to the kids,
- it was calling me to be untrue to teaching.
- You know, I wasn't teaching science,
- I was teaching a damn test.
- And that's not what I wanted to do.
- Now, during those couple years, from '07 when I was outed on TV
- to when I left, I would have students come up to me
- on the QT and come out to me that they were gay,
- they were lesbian, they were bi.
- And they didn't-- they felt safe telling me but they didn't dare
- tell their parents because they would have been, A,
- beaten to nearly to death, and B, and or B,
- thrown out on the street with nothing more than what--
- what they had on their back.
- My last year I had a gender variant student.
- And the first time I met this student,
- I would have sworn good money that the student was female.
- And it was-- was a particularly very feminine male.
- His whole demeanor, though, was very female
- all the way through.
- And I'm very, very proud of one of my students.
- First-- first day he was there everything was fine.
- I think it was a first day in class.
- Second day he was walking on down
- and a group of juniors and seniors
- started to shot out some rather derogatory remarks,
- and one of my other students shouted down all these juniors
- and seniors and got in their face.
- I used to call her a Starbuck.
- You know, after the reimaging of Battlestar Galactica character.
- You know, I had to explain what that was.
- And, you know, tough as iron.
- You know, heart of gold, tough as iron, and usually people
- don't want to screw with her.
- And he goes, yeah, I like that, I like that one a lot.
- So Starbuck shouted-- something about a dozen or more
- got in their faces.
- And then I think it was the third day there went--
- so I relayed what happened and I had her go on down and name
- names, and those kids had an attitude adjustment,
- shall we say.
- Next day, my gender variant student
- was sort of hanging back after class.
- And I had my planning period right then and so I said,
- "Well, what's-- are you OK?"
- He goes, "No, because I have phys ed."
- I looked at him and said, "You're
- in the same class with everyone else?"
- He said, "Yes."
- "Come with me."
- Brought him down to the main office
- and said, "I want you to call the phys ed teacher, tell him
- that this particular student is not absent, is with me
- and there is an issue we are dealing with."
- Went from there straight to guidance
- and said, "You have this student in a room full of overly
- aggressive, hormone crazed guys."
- And the look on the counselor-- or on the counselor's face
- was, oh, my God, I never even thought of that.
- So he got to sit it in to a different phys ed
- class where he would be safe.
- So, you know, I had impacts that way.
- It was something that was remembered by the student.
- And it was through this year when
- I went from-- before you asked, was I into politics,
- before I said, no.
- In my before days I was a hand-wringing, mealy-mouth
- wimp.
- And nowadays it's more like Shrek.
- I just sort of go through things and it's sort of
- like a bull in a china shop.
- I just go through.
- I mean, don't stand in my way.
- And this is when this passion and fire
- to get, get us our rights really, really took off.
- EVELYN BAILEY: As you look back over that period,
- what would have helped make it easier for you?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: If I had an attorney with me and said,
- "No, we are not going to do this teacher improvement plan."
- If I had been protected under law or regulation.
- Say, "I'm the only one in the department going through this,
- I'm going to take this as a sexual discrimination.
- And if you put anyone on right now it
- will simply bolster the case."
- I didn't have the backbone then that I do now.
- And that would have helped greatly
- if I had known what I was getting myself
- into in regards to employment.
- If I had an attorney with me, but more than just a union.
- If I had the law behind me to protect me
- it would have helped greatly.
- If I had people in the area who were trans as well,
- would have been wonderful.
- EVELYN BAILEY: As, as you look back
- at the early beginning in terms of your movement and growth
- into who you are today, what--
- what do you wish was there that wasn't?
- What do you--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: How far back?
- As a comparison point?
- EVELYN BAILEY: High school.
- Or junior high, or elementary school.
- I mean--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: If the climate was such where being LGBT
- wasn't such an evil thing.
- I would have been able to have dealt with it.
- If it was not perceived as being such an evil thing back then,
- I would have been able to talk to my mom and dad about it.
- I've been able to talk about them about almost everything.
- This was the one thing I couldn't.
- And after that being outed on TV,
- my brother and sister outed me to mom.
- They assumed it was an official announcement--
- twit, slap-- and they outed me to mom and she looked at them
- and said, "I'm not surprised."
- Moms know everything.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Even you think they don't.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Even when you think they don't they
- know everything.
- I didn't know this until I received a letter.
- I just didn't have anyone there to support me.
- No one that I knew of there in Wayne County.
- I didn't know all this had happened until I received
- a letter from my goddaughter saying, "We love you
- as you are, your brother loves you, your sister loves you,
- your mother loves you, she doesn't want you to do this."
- I'm going, oh, who didn't you tell, brother?
- And so it took me a month to wordsmith a reply back.
- It was eight pages typed.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And I sent it off
- to my brother, my sister, mom, and to my goddaughter who
- sent me this letter, and received a nasty-gram
- from my sister-in-law's sister.
- (unintelligible) opened the envelope,
- it said, "I challenge you--" I said,
- I'm not going to deal with this.
- This is just a nasty-gram.
- The letter I had from my mom was,
- "I never knew you were in such pain, I love you,
- and I will always love you."
- I called her the next day, went to go see her a few days
- after that, and I walked in--
- it had been a few months since we had seen each other--
- and walked in and she started to say, "Oh,
- it's so great to see my ssss--
- it's so great to see you."
- She was halfway through saying son and changed it to you.
- And we talked and I had some pictures of me as me.
- She told me, I was just getting ready to leave,
- she said, "You know, you talk as any other woman
- with your facial expressions, your hands, your whole posture.
- I see it."
- So she did her best in order to help my brother and sister
- through this.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Shauna, if you look at the future, which
- is hard to do, I mean, because it does not
- seem that we have time in decades
- that seem like time in decades.
- Everything happened so quickly and--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
- It did.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --and technology has made
- communication instantaneous.
- What do you wish would happen immediately?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: For me right now?
- EVELYN BAILEY: For you--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Or for the community?
- EVELYN BAILEY: For you right now, and then
- the second question is for the community.
- But for you right now, what do you wish
- would happen to allow you to be more fully who you are?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: If we were not excluded
- from medical coverage for the medical procedures many of us
- desire.
- You know, breast augmentation, vaginoplasty, you know,
- speaking from being a male to female transsexual.
- And if you're female to male, having breast removal
- and phalloplasty, if I recall correctly.
- I like using the correct terms instead of calling it
- sex change.
- Let's be honest about what the procedure is.
- If we were protect--
- if we were protected under the law.
- So we could do this.
- I would like to be able to hold on to my job,
- be able to apply for a job and not have my being who I am,
- being the fact I am transsexual and very open about it,
- not be an issue.
- I would like to get home tonight and find a letter of acceptance
- from grad school.
- Career number four, knock on laminate,
- is going to be getting my degree in social work
- so I can work with LGB and especially transgender kids,
- and especially in areas that have little
- to no services like next door in Wayne County.
- My fiance and I have talked about--
- and pastor-- about trying to open a safe house, a safe place
- for kids when they come out they can
- go to, if they're thrown out of the house, they can come,
- safe place, get them into school, help them learn,
- get them into counseling.
- That's my dream here for career number four.
- And with that, having the presence I think
- will help acceptance in rural areas.
- I mean, my pastor understands this gig.
- I won't go into why.
- Susan Kohlmeier there in Palmyra, what's been known,
- talked about in town, as the gay church.
- And you know, she sees that.
- She has trans kids and LGB kids show up on her doorstep
- because they've been thrown out of their homes
- and I want to do something about that, make that impact
- that way.
- Bring in our state senators and assemblymen and saying,
- these are kids who are on out there.
- They've lost their homes, they've lost everything.
- I would like from a community standpoint, the trans community
- standpoint, to know what our numbers really are.
- Last night there was a meeting about GENDA and equality
- and justice today.
- Where we stand, what it's looking like,
- what's being done.
- And assemblyman Harry Bronson who's been a strong supporter
- mentioned that he had just introduced
- a bill so that on any state form would be a place--
- optional place-- to put down if you're LGBTQI.
- So we can get real numbers.
- And with these real numbers we can plan on services.
- Because there's no firm number being out there of how many
- we are.
- Statistically, best number I've heard right now is 0.2 percent.
- And that's not a lot of people.
- EVELYN BAILEY: No.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: And, you know, so we don't
- have that much of a voice.
- So having real numbers, having people get up and say,
- "OK, it's not 0.2 percent, you look
- and see that it's actually 4 percent who fall in this range
- somewhere."
- That starts to become serious numbers,
- much more than 0.2 percent.
- Having that data would be great.
- And then being able to show that this
- is the economic impact of not being able to hold a job.
- You know, if I had been able to keep my job making
- fifty thousand dollars a year to right now working at Wegmans
- making twenty thousand?
- That's thirty thousand dollars more a year I
- could have been taxed on, I could have
- been putting into the economy.
- How much better off would the state be?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- Right.
- What would you say to a young person
- who is questioning, is saying, I'm not me in my own body?
- What would you say to them in terms of--
- well, just what would you say to them?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: First thing I would say is congratulations.
- Congratulations on recognizing and accepting
- the fact that there's something unique and special about you.
- And be very honest with them saying, you know,
- this is a tough road.
- It's a lot tougher than what you may think it's going to be,
- but those who have come before us, both this child and me,
- have made it easier than what it's
- been for those who came before.
- That there are services, there are people on out there
- who can help.
- To stay strong, to stay positive,
- stay true to yourself.
- Because it's not just a fact-- not just
- a case of being transgender or being
- gay or lesbian or bi or what have you.
- Comes down to living an authentic life.
- And I think that's what's happened with me.
- You know?
- Once I made it through puberty 2.0,
- you know, nowadays I am who I am because I
- live an authentic life.
- And that has so empowered me just by itself.
- When I talk to groups and I have a lot
- of straight people in the audience
- or cisgendered people in the audience, I say,
- "You know, this isn't just about trans, this is about everyone.
- Be positive, hold your head up high, be proud of who you are.
- It's living an authentic life."
- And I say it then I see heads nod going, you know,
- that's true.
- And, spinning it that way, all we're doing
- is trying to be authentic and honest with ourselves.
- I would tell them to be strong, be honest.
- There are places out there to get help,
- and if there's anything I can do to help I will.
- And that they're not alone.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What are you most proud of?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: My son.
- I have two kids, a daughter and a son.
- My daughter right now is not talking with me.
- We had a few issues between us and I have a few suspicions
- that I won't go into.
- My son has been my strongest and best
- advocate and ally from the word go.
- He has agreed to be my gentleman of honor.
- Took him half a heartbeat to say yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And how old is he?
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: He is seventeen.
- He'll be-- he will have just turned eighteen when
- our wedding comes in August.
- And I was starting to go to St. Mark's Episcopal Church
- in Newark.
- Catholic church there, when I came on
- out there said, "Thank you, we no longer need your services."
- It is what it is.
- Not all churches are like that and I'll
- have to tell you some day about the great late parish of St.
- Andrews the Apostle in Syracuse.
- But that's for another time.
- And so it was their annual feast day.
- Now, St. Marks is an old parish.
- I was in my early fifties and I was one of the youngsters.
- So my son came with me and, you know,
- getting him to go to church is like pulling teeth
- without Novocaine.
- But he came anyhow and downstairs
- they had this quiz about the parish and I knew nothing.
- My son is brilliant.
- He blew off an IQ test and still scored one hundred forty-one.
- I mean, literally, that is-- no, he's genius quality.
- And so when I brought him back to his other home
- he said, "Oh, yeah, I did this and then she did that,
- and I did this and she got that, and her answer was this
- but my answer was this and my answer was right."
- And all the way my ex was going him, his, he.
- And finally, you know, after a little bit he looked at her
- and said, "What are you talking about?"
- "Talking about your dad, right?"
- "Yes."
- "He's a guy."
- He looked at her and said, "No, she's not."
- You know, that was a few years ago.
- He's always known that if things got ever tough between him
- and his other parent he can come stay with me.
- Door is always open.
- For-- there was an incident there
- where I thought he would be.
- And I patched things up between him
- and his mother simply because I knew
- it was a better district than what I was in.
- And it broke my heart.
- I so wanted him living with me because he
- would have been so much happier, but would not
- have had a lot of the academic opportunities he had
- by staying in Baldwinsville.
- So I'm proud of my son because I raised him to be accepting.
- He had to grow up fast.
- But he accepts people for who they are.
- My daughter tends to accept people for who they are.
- I think this simply cut a little close to home,
- and the fact that I was outed to her before I could out myself I
- think hurt (unintelligible).
- EVELYN BAILEY: That is probably one of the most difficult
- things to move beyond, whether you are trans,
- whether you're gay, whether you're bisexual,
- or however you identify.
- It's very different when you are in control
- of sharing who you are--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --versus hearing it through the back door
- or in a way that is not from you.
- Even from other friends.
- A lot of what you have said in terms of what would have helped
- and the future is visibility.
- Visibility is not obvious.
- I said this the other day at a small group meeting.
- If you're black, if you're Hispanic, if you're Asian,
- and you have cultural features that clearly indicate that,
- there they are right in front of you.
- You can't avoid and you can't hide and you can't say--
- you don't have a choice of whether to say I'm black
- or I'm not.
- When you're gay-- when you're white,
- first of all, when you're gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans,
- you have choices.
- And that choice often comes down to how comfortable you
- are with yourself, how much you have grown
- into being that person, and able to not
- fear the repercussions of being who you are.
- That's a journey that takes a lifetime.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: It does.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Because there are always new beginnings
- and new coming outs.
- The differences between people, it
- seems to me in the current political climate,
- are becoming much more divisive--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Very much so.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --than previously in our history.
- We have gone through a period of assimilation,
- and now if you don't assimilate and you
- quote unquote "stick your neck out," it's not acceptable.
- Five, four, three years ago, it was
- acceptable to be demanding of rights,
- to be demanding of marriage, to be
- demanding of legal protections under the law.
- Now those legal protections, even
- under the law that many people have,
- are beginning to be taken away.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: They are.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And we have an acceptance of that.
- We have a culture which in some parts of the country
- no longer identifies that removal as wrong.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: To quote Ben Franklin,
- "Sacrificing essential liberties for temporary (unintelligible).
- Someone whose-- those who sacrifice essential liberties
- for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security."
- And I have people at work who don't mind the fact that,
- oh, I got to trade a few things off to protect ourselves.
- I'm OK with that.
- Well, no, it's not good.
- I-- my heroes were people who made a stand, single people who
- made a stand.
- Horatius at the Bridge: "Out spake brave
- Horatius, Captain of the gate.
- Death comes to every man, sooneth or late.
- And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds,
- for the ashes of his fathers and temples of his gods."
- No.
- I didn't take Latin.
- No.
- Whatever gave you that idea.
- Cicero before the Roman Senate outlining the whole coup
- attempt by Catiline.
- Then Colonel Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain,
- the twenty-second Maine.
- He was down to one hundred plus men,
- out of ammunition with the whole Reb army
- coming on up Little Round Top.
- Tactically he should have withdrawn.
- He did a bayonet charge and won the battle by holding them off.
- Single people who made a stand.
- And there were others, and that's the type of person
- I want to be.
- Had I known to put my neck out there, I'm OK with that risk.
- I'm OK that it means I have an illuminated bull's eye on me.
- I'm going to say--
- I say, fine, bring it on.
- Because I think it will make a difference.
- Not only for me and the rest of the trans community
- and the rest of the LGB community,
- but I think it will make a stand and make
- a difference for everyone.
- And I really believe that this fight for our liberties
- really is a right for--
- is a battle to secure the rights for all Americans.
- I firmly believe it.
- I realize it's ideological and innocent
- and everything else like that, but you know what?
- I don't care.
- It's how I believe.
- You know, it's our fight, it's our battle.
- But everyone wins.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, there are two things
- that I hear you saying, and it's really a privilege
- to share with you some of the political and philosophical
- ideas.
- And it's also a privilege to meet you because--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Thank you.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --I've heard of you and not had the honor.
- If one person is not free, no one is free.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yep.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And Patrick Henry stood up
- and said, "I may disagree with what you say but I will fight
- for your right to say it."
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And we have lost, in my opinion,
- some of that character.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I think it's more than just some.
- We've lost a lot of that character.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- And so until the pendulum begins to swing back
- in that direction, we are on the brink of not only
- not being free, but of losing the freedoms that we've already
- gained.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I agree wholeheartedly.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And I'm beyond--
- well, I'm not beyond tonight--
- I've protested and have led an activist life
- for most of my life, but we need women, men, children,
- senior citizens to stand up and take a stand.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Absolutely.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And put the finger in the dyke,
- to close the avenue for destruction.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I agree wholeheartedly.
- EVELYN BAILEY: That really appears
- to me to be part of not only what your journey has been,
- but probably what your journey will become.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: I would agree.
- I would like that.
- It's making a difference.
- And this is an important difference it will make.
- It's not just some better products,
- it's not helping some kid pass a test.
- This comes down to civil liberty, the right to be free.
- And we're heading so rapidly into
- a totalitarian fascist state.
- And I've heard people from both sides
- of the political spectrum-- and we're not
- talking the extreme sides either,
- we're talking-- both sides of the political aisle talk
- about us heading towards a second civil war because
- of the disparaging in rights, in wealth.
- It would not surprise me in the slightest.
- It worries me as what would happened afterwards.
- It worries me as to what would happen if it doesn't happen.
- The Occupy Movement received press overseas.
- How much press did it receive here in the United States?
- You know?
- It takes one person to stand up and make that difference
- and I want to be that person.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I think you're well
- on your way to being that.
- And there will be many, many people
- who will support you in your--
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: Thank you.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --journey.
- Thank you for sharing yourself and your story.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: My pleasure.
- If there's is one last thing I could share?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Absolutely.
- SHAUNA O'TOOLE: It's the--
- my own personal motto.
- It's on the back of my book and it's
- called "Doors are meant to be opened, not hidden behind.
- Go forth and conquer."
- And that's how I try to live my life.
- And it's been an honor and pleasure
- sharing my story with you.
- Thank you.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, thank you.