Audio Interview, Tilda Hunting, August 27, 2013

EVELYN BAILEY: Today's date is Tuesday, August 27,

and I'm sitting here with Tilda Hunting.

Tilda is an old friend, but, more than that, she

was born in Rochester and grew up in Rochester

through an era of time when gay lib was in process.

And so I'm asking her about her recollections of that time.

So I know you were born in Rochester,

and you went to school in Rochester, and you didn't--

you went to high school, but college was elsewhere.

Outside of Rochester.

TILDA HUNTING: That's right.

EVELYN BAILEY: And were you--

I mean when did you first have any information

about homosexuality.

Was it something that your family talked about?

TILDA HUNTING: Are you kidding?

(laughter)

The strange thing is, going to the Columbia School

for Girls, which is where the museum is now,

there was nary a word mentioned about such a thing.

I now know that the two ladies who ran Columbia

at the time in the '50s and the '40s before that

were long-term partners, but nobody ever said anything.

And it didn't dawn on me.

I don't know about my classmates.

It was very strange.

The first time I remember the word homosexual was my mother,

referring to a guy, who happened to be the uncle of one

of my classmates, who ran a very exclusive and lovely

women's dress shop on Park Avenue,

the name of which I've been trying to remember and I cannot

remember it.

And she always referred to him as a 'homo."

She never said homosexual, she said "homo."

And of course there was a sort of slight negative tone.

But he was a lovely man, was always

the rejoinder, of course.

And I've also learned, like in the past maybe fifteen years,

that my maternal grandfather, so my mother's dad,

hired the first woman on a commercial art project

for his building, the Pennsylvania

capitol in Harrisburg, and her name was Violet Oakley,

and guess what?

She was a lesbian.

Although they may have not said that at the time.

And she lived in a communal situation known as the Red Rose

Girls around Philadelphia with three other very well-known

illustrators, who actually made their living doing that.

And now they've become quite an interesting subject.

But my mother never mentioned that.

Which I find significant, I think.

EVELYN BAILEY: So when did you first

identify yourself as a lesbian?

TILDA HUNTING: Well, let's see.

I don't know about identifying myself.

In 1962-- so I would have been just twenty--

I went to see a film at the old fine art

cinema, which I don't think is there anymore, on Clinton.

And it was called The L-Shaped Room,

and it was with Leslie Caron when she was really young.

And the word lesbian--

or maybe it was dyke-- was actually in that film,

and I remember thinking, oh, what is that exactly?

And it sort of piqued my interest,

and then I forgot about it.

One time I actually got called a faggot.

I think the person couldn't see me.

It was in a snowstorm on the U of R campus.

The word was said not with an affirmative tone.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.

TILDA HUNTING: And I thought, what is that?

So I was pretty clueless around that age.

But I do remember The L-Shaped Room

and being very moved by the character in it who

was supposed to be an older lesbian.

And then, around the same time, I went--

I was down in the Rundel Library,

and I ran across a book.

How in the world I found this book--

I'm sure I was just browsing, and it

was called The Grapevine.

Do you know this book?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

TILDA HUNTING: It was by Jess Stearn,

and it was called The Secret Lesbian World,

and I remember I took it out, and I

sat right there in the library, and I read

practically the whole thing.

And I don't remember if I was brave enough to take it out.

But that-- that was an eye opener.

And that was, like, a couple of years later.

EVELYN BAILEY: And what year are we--

TILDA HUNTING: Well, we're talking mid-'60s, like

'64 or '65.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

TILDA HUNTING: And you asked if I knew about Stonewall,

and I would say, by '69, of course, that--

I don't remember learning about Stonewall.

It seems like by then I was into feminism,

and I think I just sort of knew about it.

I don't remember the specific night of Stonewall

and the riot, but it seemed like it was just part of the lore

that I absorbed in those years-- the late '60s and early '70s.

So I was very active in NOW at that time.

EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.

Were your parents accepting of feminism?

Were they--

TILDA HUNTING: Well, it's interesting.

My mother went to Smith College, and you

would think that she would have been kind of a feminist,

but I would say only to a certain degree, maybe, she was.

I mean, I think that if she'd had

to get out of her very nice, upper-middle-class,

privileged life, she would have done that if she had to.

Like if she'd been married to an abusing man or something,

but she really never had to, quote, "work."

And I used to say things like, when I realized that Betty

Friedan and Gloria Steinem and these people all went to Smith,

I one time said to her, you know,

Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem went to Smith !

And her response was, we have more illustrious alumnae.

(laughter)

So I think she didn't identify with feminist goals.

She was very male-oriented.

My dad, I mean, when I became interested in interior

painting-- which I attribute, by the way, to Whitey LeBlanc,

because Whitey hired me the first time I ever did it,

really, for somebody else--

my dad was real proud of that.

Because he had his own business.

And he thought it was very cool that I was self-employed

and that I had business cards and all that stuff.

And my mother was, I think, mostly mystified.

So I would say that my mother, though, when she did

figure out that I was a lesbian--

I used to say this in my speaking engagements--

she did ask me.

Which I find somewhat unusual.

Because it seems like most people go through,

"Do I tell my parents, don't I tell my parents, when do I

do it?"

I did not tell them right away, and I never did tell my father,

because my mother didn't want me to.

She actually made me promise not to do it.

But she did ask me, and I think it

was because I had people like Carol Klone

and Maria Sistenko coming around on motorcycles,

she kind of figured out, gee, you know, that's probably--

my daughter must be hanging with these people.

And she asked me one night at dinner

when it was just the two of us, and she was not happy.

But she was supportive, and she told me

it was the worst thing that ever happened in our family.

And I said, now, just a minute.

I knew she was going to ask me, by the way,

I mean I just kind of knew--

sensed that she knew.

And this was before I had a partner, anything.

But I said, no, it's not the worst thing that

ever happened in our family.

I said, the worst thing that ever happened in our family

was I had a cousin who was raped in New Orleans

and was lucky to live.

I said, I think that was worse.

Really a lot worse.

And she said, yeah, but it's against the will of God.

And I said, well, I think God loves everybody.

And I'm very happy with it, mother.

And so, you know, she bought that.

But she was worried about discrimination.

And I tried to get across to her-- which I think I did--

that I really was OK with it.

Because by the time she asked me, I'd been out in my own life

a couple of years.

And when she met my first partner,

Libby Ford she admired Libby, because Libby

was a very staunch Catholic.

And she actually said, maybe you should--

she wanted me to go to church more,

and she said, maybe you should go to church with Libby.

And I said, well, that's interesting you say that,

because you've never been exactly pro-Catholic!

And she said--

(laughter)

She said, yes, but Libby is setting a good example.

And I said, well, indeed.

So--

(laughter)

But anyway, I would say that my father kind of knew,

and certainly by the time I was with my now partner

of twenty-five years, Robin Yerkes he

definitely had figured it out.

And he also figured out my nephew,

who was a homosexual fellow.

And so I figured, hey, you know, he wasn't dumb.

It's just that we never talked about it.

EVELYN BAILEY: Now, when you were,

quote, unquote, "coming out," were there resources

available to you?

TILDA HUNTING: Well, yeah, because I was awfully lucky,

I think.

I got involved with NOW.

So I really became a feminist around 1970 and '71.

And I really felt like I had sort of come home in a way,

that it was much more liberating.

I felt-- I had been questioning myself about a lot of things,

especially dating men, because I'd gotten really tired of it.

I'd dated quite a number of men, but I just never

could see myself in a long-term arrangement with a guy,

even though I'd met a lot of nice fellows and stuff.

When I was in NOW, at first I was really just sailing along

on the feminist rhetoric and loving it,

and I dropped out of the Junior League very promptly,

much to my mother's shock.

I said, no, this is not where I am.

This is where I'm going.

And I loved it.

And one day, the thing that got me, I think--

that provided a framework-- was that NOW had--

the word lesbian wasn't really talked

about in NOW meetings very much, when I was first in there.

But by about '72 or so, Rita Mae Brown

called it "the lavender menace," and I would say

that that's what was going on.

And all of a sudden we had a meeting one time

where there were five speakers, and two of them were--

they were all people flaunting convention.

And one of them was a woman coming out

of a marriage with great fear, but very determined to do so.

And that was a very interesting story.

And then the other was two young dykes

in Rochester, who were awesome.

They were very articulate, very charismatic.

And that was Diane Schonio and Joanne Nelson who I believe

were partners at the time.

And they just sat up there, and they talked about their life,

and it was like, wow.

First time I'd ever heard anybody talk about being gay.

And they wanted to start a women's center in Rochester,

and they wanted volunteers.

So I put up my hand, and there I was.

And they told me later, they said, we knew you were,

even before you knew you were.

So the first meeting was in the Universalist Church basement,

and I went.

And I was sort of scared about going,

but it was exciting, too, and that began.

So, through that, I met lots of women, and most of them

were young dykes.

And I got taken to the bars, particularly

the Riverview, which became like a second home and a club,

practically.

So I met a lot of people that way.

So I felt like it was easy to come out.

I really didn't have to somehow figure out how to meet people,

I guess.

And that was when the bars were pretty strong.

I mean, Riverview was really the center for women,

although there had been a couple others in lesser parts of town.

So it was very easy for me, and I just

had a great time for about five years

before I kind of settled down with Libby.

EVELYN BAILEY: So share with me a little bit

about the first time you went to the Riverview.

Do you recall?

TILDA HUNTING: Aye yai yai.

No.

I don't recall the first time.

I recall being there many times, but I don't

think I recall the first time.

Isn't that strange?

EVELYN BAILEY: What was it like?

TILDA HUNTING: Well, there were--

Lou the bartender was fabulous.

A straight woman who kept secrets,

which was a good thing.

A lot of people talked to her about a lot of stuff.

Drinks were cheap.

I didn't drink beer, so I would usually

have something like a gin and tonic or something.

There was a lot of smoking and a lot of drinking.

I didn't do a lot of either.

I didn't smoke at all, but there was.

And I would say my memory of the bar in general

is that it was a lot of fun, but every once

in a while it got real dicey.

One time I was actually in a bar fight.

Carol Klone saved my tail, and Patti Evans

gave me great comfort.

They got me out of there in one piece!

And the bar fight wasn't something I started,

but it was easy to get caught up in stuff.

There was a lot of stuff going on.

There was a lot of angry young women.

There was also an older contingent-- older meaning

anybody over thirty-five, I'd say.

(laughter)

And there were some women that were in their forties,

and everybody kind of felt sorry for them in a way.

It was kind of sad.

Now that I look back on it, it was kind of ageist, I'm afraid,

but I feel a lot of people were.

And I was older than most, because I was thirty-one

and two when i came out.

Or thirty.

Thirty-one and two.

And I was hanging around with mostly younger women.

I wore saddle shoes to the bar a lot.

And people used to make fun of me,

but I think they thought it was funny.

I don't know if they thought it was funny

or if I was too preppy or something.

I took, for some reason, great pride in wearing

saddle shoes, because nobody else did. (laughter)

That's kind of stupid--

I don't know why.

EVELYN BAILEY: Was there dancing?

TILDA HUNTING: Oh, yeah, there was a lot of dancing.

Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: So there was a dance floor.

TILDA HUNTING: Yeah, there was a rear dance floor,

and the bathroom on the far-- so to get to the bathroom you

had to go through the rear dance floor.

There was only one entrance in, in the bar room.

And there was kind of-- you could dance in the bar room,

but I think most people danced in the other room.

It wasn't very big.

There was a backyard, also.

In the summer it was used.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall it ever being raided?

TILDA HUNTING: No.

If it was, I wasn't there.

I don't think the women got that.

But maybe Lou paid off the Mafia, what do I know?

I mean, I don't know.

You know, I never thought about that at the time.

I'm sure if I'd been a guy in a guys' bar, that

would have been--

but I don't know if men's bars were raided

by that late in the '70s.

Because we used to go to Jim's, and that never happened,

and that was a men's bar.

EVELYN BAILEY: Dick's--

TILDA HUNTING: Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: --was raided.

TILDA HUNTING: I forget where that was.

EVELYN BAILEY: And Jim's was raided.

TILDA HUNTING: Was it?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.

TILDA HUNTING: In the '70s?

EVELYN BAILEY: In the '70s.

Whitey tells stories about Jim's being raided.

And it's also known that Dick's was raided, because Martha,

who was the bartender--

Martha Gruttadauria?

TILDA HUNTING: Yeah.

Where was Dick's?

I can't remember.

I remember the--

EVELYN BAILEY: Front Street.

TILDA HUNTING: Oh my god.

Well.

EVELYN BAILEY: And then it went to Stone Street.

TILDA HUNTING: Yeah, Front Street

was demolished somewhere around there, because I don't even

remember Front Street.

I mean, I know it existed, I just don't remember at all.

EVELYN BAILEY: And then Dick's went to Stone Street.

TILDA HUNTING: I don't think I ever went into Dick's.

I do remember Jim's.

I remember my friend Tom Hackett who

was a guy that I actually dated before he came out, used to run

the AM/PM Club, at one point.

That was a men's bath on--

it was right near Jim's--

Clinton?

Or, I forget where Jim's was, but I

think it was on the same--

AM/PM Club.

EVELYN BAILEY: North Street?

TILDA HUNTING: North, maybe.

Yeah, North.

That's right.

He's somebody maybe you could talk to.

I forgot about him.

I'll give you his name later.

EVELYN BAILEY: So I do know that Jim's and, you know,

Dick's, and many of the other bars--

the Avenue Pub--

TILDA HUNTING: The Riverview was really fun.

I mean, I found it fun.

I don't know if other people did.

mean It was strange, I never met anybody

that I actually dated, hardly at all, at the Riverview.

It seemed like the people I actually ended up

going out with were people I somehow met in other ways,

like through softball, for instance.

Or through other people, for instance.

But it's strange, I don't remember really dating people

that I met at the Riverview.

That's why it felt more like a club to me.

But I'm sure many people went in there with the intention

of meeting people.

Which I did, but, I mean, I didn't go specifically

to meet somebody to go out with as much as--

it was just fun to--

It was so incredibly liberating to go out at, hey,

we used to go out at 9:00 or 10:00 at night, right?

I don't know how we did it, when you think about it.

But we used to go out at 9:00 or 10:00, and my mother,

when I was living at home at one point,

my mother would say, where are you going?

And I'd just say, out.

Well, you know, the old thing, what are you going to do?

And I'd say, oh, nothing.

And I'd take off.

Maybe that's why she figured out things.

There was several years when I did that, it seemed like.

Around the late '70s, I stopped going as much.

And certainly when I got with Libby,

we didn't go out like that as much at all.

But it was fun.

EVELYN BAILEY: And when did you become involved politically?

Was that through NOW?

TILDA HUNTING: Well, I would say in NOW.

Yeah.

I went to lots of meetings with them.

And then after I met lesbians I went to a lot of GAGV meetings.

I would call my political involvement

more like a consciousness raising.

I mean, that's how it affected me.

And then

when I did go on to the Speakers' Bureau, which

was around the time Libby and I got together,

so that was around '78, I was on that about five years.

And Ramona Santorelli and Keith Hershberger and me

did a lot of speaking together.

And many other people, who I can't

seem to remember other names right now.

We went all over.

I mean, honestly, I'm sure they're still doing it,

because I see there's still a great speakers' bureau.

We went all the way from Corning to Geneseo

to Canandaigua to MCC to the U of R Medical School.

And it was great fun, and I felt like I really

wanted to do that.

I'm not sure just why, and I felt

that it was a bit risky, being that I was in my hometown.

Because nobody else-- well, I'm not sure

if Ramona's from Rochester.

I think she is, but a lot of the people that were active

weren't from Rochester, and a lot of them

have left Rochester since.

And for me to do that, I knew that when I did it

I was taking a risk in that I'd surely

find somebody who knew somebody, like in my family or something.

And, of course, that actually did happen,

but that was the risk that I took.

EVELYN BAILEY: Where did you speak, primarily?

TILDA HUNTING: Everywhere but high schools.

Not so much in high schools, because they

were a little afraid to have gay people coming in to speak.

But we did a lot of colleges.

In Geneseo, community colleges.

Brockport, the U of R, and the U of R Medical School.

And I remember the medical school particularly,

because they asked the most pointed questions, the ones

that most people didn't want to ask.

And that was an interesting--

especially, that was with Ramona,

so that was particularly interesting.

EVELYN BAILEY: Did you ever encounter any protests or--

I mean, you'd go to, say, like Geneseo.

Did you ever encounter--

TILDA HUNTING: No.

We'd speak to psychology classes,

usually, so it was all prearranged, of course.

And then they would send money to the Gay Alliance,

and that was their way of paying.

I don't remember any protests.

That's pretty amazing, actually.

EVELYN BAILEY: I mean, even if you were--

TILDA HUNTING: I mean, I remember protests in the city,

like Take Back the Night stuff, and all that stuff,

but not at our speaking,

EVELYN BAILEY: But it's interesting that on a college

campus, even, there might not have been--

TILDA HUNTING: I know.

EVELYN BAILEY: --groups that would have had objection

to being gay.

TILDA HUNTING: And maybe there were.

Maybe some of those people were sitting in our class,

but I think that was the-- that's the art of speaking,

is that you try to make it so that they really get it

and it isn't sounding so scary, formidable.

And and I mean, now, in today's world,

we all know that practically everybody

either knows somebody gay or has somebody in their family.

And even a lot of conservatives have actually

crossed the line in some ways.

I don't know.

I don't remember, though, any--

I remember more protests in the '60s about long-haired men

and anti-war stuff than I do gay stuff.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

Were there colleges that you were

aware of that you would not be invited to speak at?

TILDA HUNTING: There were high schools

that said they were afraid to have us there.

I don't know which high schools.

It seems like we spoke at one school,

and I don't remember which one that is.

I do remember one high school engagement, I think.

EVELYN BAILEY: Was that Tim Mains's?

In Greece?

TILDA HUNTING: No, it wasn't Tim's school.

No.

I don't honestly remember.

Maybe somebody else would.

But I don't remember--

I mean, we went where we were asked.

We didn't solicit speaking engagements.

EVELYN BAILEY: No, but there is a recognition

that certain schools would be more open to having you come

and asking you to come, versus other schools that--

TILDA HUNTING: Right, and that's an interesting question,

and I'm wondering if a school like the School for the Arts

or something like that would be more open.

Maybe it is today.

We never spoke there, that I remember,

but I would think that would be the kind of school that

would be more open.

EVELYN BAILEY: What about Nazareth College?

TILDA HUNTING: I think we spoke at Nazareth.

EVELYN BAILEY: St. John Fisher?

TILDA HUNTING: I know we spoke at St. John Fisher.

I remember doing that.

EVELYN BAILEY: And MCC?

Monroe Community?

TILDA HUNTING: I also took a course at St. John Fisher.

I was just remembering this.

There was a woman in the community

named Brita Labillious who was Peg Meeker's

partner at the time.

And I had her come and speak, and the subject was on aging,

but it was on aging lesbians in this particular speaking

engagement.

And Breena did that, and that was cool.

The course was on aging in general,

but she spoke as an older gay woman.

That was in the '80s.

That was mid-'80s.

EVELYN BAILEY: Now, you mentioned Take Back

the Night marches.

Tell me what those were about.

First of all, why the name?

Second of all--

TILDA HUNTING: I think it was the idea

to be able to go out at night without being afraid of being

raped or assaulted.

EVELYN BAILEY: As a woman?

TILDA HUNTING: As a woman.

Yeah.

I don't know where it originated, actually.

I know it was a nationwide thing.

And I'm trying to remember--

I wasn't as active in that as some,

but there was a time period, I think it was the early

'80s, where--

Well, I remember that, and I remember also

the "Smash Patriarchy" thing, which I think was in the '70s,

if I remember correctly, and there

were a lot of people that were involved in putting up signs

all over for both of those things.

But the Take Back the Night was more just

being able to claim the freedom to go out at night

and not feel afraid.

Now, I personally never really felt that way at night,

but the idea was, it was trying to attack rape and violence.

And making people aware of the fact that these exist.

It seems to me there was a big banner

that was pretty awesome in the way it was designed.

I'm trying to remember what it looked like.

It's like the "Smash Patriarchy" thing,

they would have these sheets that people would do designs

on and then pin them up and carry them in parades and stuff

like that.

It was sort of short lived.

I don't remember Take Back the Night as that long

a movement, but two or three years.

EVELYN BAILEY: And was that a part of--

TILDA HUNTING: It wasn't really affiliated with the Gay

Alliance, I don't think.

EVELYN BAILEY: No, but was that a part

of the movement in which primarily women went

into bookstores and--

Chick told me about an experience,

they all went into porn places with the idea of throwing up,

and then--

TILDA HUNTING: They probably got thrown out, right?

EVELYN BAILEY: Well, no, they couldn't do it on on-call.

They couldn't make themselves throw up on-call, and so--

TILDA HUNTING: Oh, I see.

EVELYN BAILEY: They went in, and they left, and after they left,

they threw up.

But it was also the black velvet paint thing--

TILDA HUNTING: Oh, and "Fly United"

was another ad that they would attack.

The United Airlines was "Fly United,"

and the airlines had put out a series of very sexist, you

know, snappy-looking young women with good-looking guys,

but the inference was, fly United

and you'll have a great experience,

and it wasn't really about the airline.

And then there was a movie called The Chainsaw Murders,

which I remember also, that people protested downtown.

It was being shown at that time.

This was a very violent movie, which

I think is still out there on some channels.

Yeah, there was a lot of that kind of stuff.

EVELYN BAILEY: Was that NOW-organized?

TILDA HUNTING: I think some of it was NOW.

Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: Or, at least feminist- organized.

TILDA HUNTING: Yeah, well, NOW is, of course,

seen as a very middle-class organization.

I mean, I realized that after I was in it a while.

I thought it was a really radical thing

to be in NOW, because for me it was.

But then after a while I realized a lot of people

thought NOW was just a middle-class--

white middle class--

organization.

And it kind of was, in a way.

Definitely.

On the other hand, they certainly

challenged a lot of concepts and suppositions, I would say.

But for me, in a way, it was my way of coming out,

but once I really came out as a lesbian,

then I think I became less active in NOW

and more into, well, for a while,

just having fun and going out with different people,

and hanging--

EVELYN BAILEY: And the Speakers' Bureau.

TILDA HUNTING: --going to the bar, and then

the speakers' bureau a little bit later.

That was really more in the late '70s that I got into that.

The period between about between about '73 and '78

was when I really met lots of people

and really had fun and, you know,

wasn't settled down at all.

And had my heart broken, as well, but, you know.

I had fun.

Met lots of women.

EVELYN BAILEY: Were you involved at all with the Lesbian

Resource Center?

TILDA HUNTING: Yeah, now, where was that?

Was that at the U of R?

Was that the thing--

EVELYN BAILEY: No, it was at the Alliance.

TILDA HUNTING: Well, yeah.

Yes.

Well, I mean--

I'm trying to remember what they did that was

different from the GAGV.

EVELYN BAILEY: It was the GAGV, but I mean,

there was the Lesbian Resource Center,

and then there was the men's group.

TILDA HUNTING: Yes, I was.

I mean, yes, I guess it was the LRC.

That's right.

I'd forgotten about that.

Gosh.

Yeah, there were a lot of meetings.

We had speakers in that.

I remember, actually, a wonderful meeting

of visiting German lesbians.

I don't know who they were visiting,

but they came and spoke, a couple of women,

and that was really interesting.

Yes, I trod those stairs many times, up and down.

And also at that time there was a wonderful resource,

I don't know if it was through the Alliance or the LRC,

of people like Jane Irwin who used to monitor the phones,

so that when people called in with questions,

there would be somebody to talk to them.

EVELYN BAILEY: That was the hotline.

TILDA HUNTING: The hotline.

Yeah, right.

I never did that, but Jane did it, I know, and others.

EVELYN BAILEY: And where was the Gay Alliance at that point?

Where was it located?

TILDA HUNTING: On Monroe Avenue, where the co-op is.

Is it still there?

I'm not sure.

EVELYN BAILEY: No.

TILDA HUNTING: No.

I mean, I know the Alliance isn't there,

but it is the co-op still there?

EVELYN BAILEY: The co-op still is there.

Yeah.

TILDA HUNTING: 713, wasn't it, Monroe?

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

And how did one enter the Alliance?

TILDA HUNTING: There was a side, rear stairwell

on the left when you were looking at the building.

That's where you went in.

Now, I think you could go in the regular, main entrance

and up the stairs.

I'm trying to remember if that linked up to it.

I think it did.

Susan Soleil had a book bindery there.

I don't know if she's still there.

I can't remember if you could get through from that entrance.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah, you could.

TILDA HUNTING: Yeah, I thought so.

There was a photography thing that was there.

I don't know if it's still there.

Photography darkroom.

There was a lot going on, I mean there was

a pottery thing in the bottom.

And then there was a grocery store, originally,

and then it became other things.

EVELYN BAILEY: But the sign, Gay Alliance, was on the back.

TILDA HUNTING: Yeah.

Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: Down the alley.

TILDA HUNTING: And Susan Plunkett

had a restaurant there in the bottom at one time.

It wasn't called Snake Sisters.

It was her other restaurant.

I can't remember what it was called.

EVELYN BAILEY: Jazzberry's?

TILDA HUNTING: Jazzberry's, of course.

Yeah.

And that's where Ramona slid down the fire pole at a dance.

It was the funniest thing ever.

But Susan Plunkett really raised everybody's consciousness

about food.

I would say that.

Not so much feminist, exactly, but, you

know that was another interesting thing going on,

the whole food movement, at that time.

You know, I certainly never had things like falafels, and much

garlic, and all the things that we all are familiar with now.

Couscous.

I didn't know any of that stuff.

I was raised on a WASPy white diet, pretty much.

(laughter)

EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, Tilda.

(laughter)

Do you recall any experiences in which you

either were discriminated against

or observed others being--

because you were gay.

TILDA HUNTING: Oh, not--

it was more because I'm a woman than because I was gay,

I would say.

Um, well, let me think about that.

Let's see.

I once spoke on a radio show with--

I can't even remember who I spoke with

and why we were on this radio show.

And It was about feminism, it wasn't about being a lesbian.

And one of the people on the show was--

what's her name?

Maggie something.

She's the county executive.

EVELYN BAILEY: Maggie Brooks.

TILDA HUNTING: Maggie Brooks.

She was young and unformed, then.

And I sensed that she and I didn't hit it off at all.

And I just sensed this real distancing.

I mean, I just felt like--

I didn't know if it was the feminist part,

or maybe she knew I was gay, or what.

I could be wrong, but that's what I felt.

But, generally, no.

I mean, maybe I was in a cloud or something,

but I was very lucky in that my family, when they did find out,

basically accepted me.

And I've felt that way about most people ever since.

It still amazes me, actually, to meet people who do accept.

I guess I'm not young enough that I just

take it for granted like maybe the young women do today.

I would say that I'm still--

like, Robin's sister-in-law just took me in as the family.

You know, there was no question.

And that kind of amazed me.

I mean, she should, but it just was very affirming.

And of course they all know that we're gay,

and we just got married this July after twenty-five years,

so that's been pretty affirming, even

from my conservative brother.

And I have other people in my family, especially

the younger ones, who've all been fine with it.

And then my oldest sister-in-law also, who's 80 years old,

just feels like it was a given.

So people don't seem--

I think people are much more sophisticated than that maybe

even I give them credit for.

I think the most negative thing that ever happened to me really

was just because I was a woman.

It happened in a job interview way back.

And that was a very sexist interview

in the advertising industry.

And that was one of the things that raised my consciousness,

I think, about feminism, without really realizing it

at the time.

But other than that, I really haven't felt

a whole lot of discrimination.

I can't say I'm not unaware that some people probably aren't--

I think even my sister-in-law, the one who died,

Jane, had very mixed feelings about me,

because we were roommates way back when I was coming out,

and that was a dicey situation.

And I feel like Jane had very mixed feelings

about the whole subject.

And she loved me, and she loved Robin,

but I don't think she was altogether comfortable with it.

EVELYN BAILEY: When you look back on your time in Rochester

from, oh, middle school to the time when you left,

which was in the '80s--

TILDA HUNTING: I left in early '88.

January of '88, I left to return to college in New Hampshire.

So, yeah, that's what I left.

With every intention of going back, but in essence

I have not lived there since then.

EVELYN BAILEY: So in that span of time,

were there, to you, noticeable differences in how lesbians,

how gay men were--

TILDA HUNTING: You mean between when I first came out

and when I left?

EVELYN BAILEY: --were treated?

TILDA HUNTING: Uh.

That is a hard question to answer.

I think it was more in my perception of what

was happening in myself than that maybe it was--

I mean, I still think that it must

be-- that it is still a process to come out,

no matter how old you are.

Otherwise, why do we still talk about coming out?

I felt from the minute I realized I was gay,

and walked the beach on Lake Ontario

to think about it, that this is where I should be,

finally, after years of wondering

what was going on in my life.

And I never really looked back to regret it.

I didn't feel that--

Huh.

I don't know.

Actually, it's a very interesting question.

I really have to think about that.

I do have friends, even now, one of them in Rochester,

who I will not name, who aren't really comfortable with being

too gay, you might say.

But most of the people that I've met, I think,

since the late '80s, mid-'80s, are pretty sure that's what

they're all about.

So I don't know if it's different for younger lesbians

today.

I would think that it would be.

But you still hear stories of people

having to deal with their families and their religion.

I don't think it's ever totally easy,

but it does seem like we're much more accepted.

At least, I think so, and I hope so.

EVELYN BAILEY: So when you left Rochester

to go back to college, it was to Smith, right?

TILDA HUNTING: No.

No, it was to Colby-Sawyer in New Hampshire,

my old two-year school that I'd gone to originally.

I thought about going to Smith.

That's interesting.

Because my mother went there, and I