Audio Interview, Tim Tompkins, August 23, 2011
- ANNOUNCER: Saskatchewan up ahead.
- It had just skipped a right turn.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I have done the--
- TIM TOMPKINS: I'm not the most tech savvy type.
- Most things, I prefer to have someone else do.
- EVELYN BAILEY: They've long passed.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Oh my goodness.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But in terms of the AIDS crisis,
- and the police chief, when I talked to John Arnie
- last night--
- see this, it just blows my mind.
- TIM TOMPKINS: It was actually Gordon Urlacher
- that was helpful with that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.
- But prior to that, we didn't have a liaison.
- TIM TOMPKINS: I don't think so.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You came into the business of entrepreneurship
- in Rochester around 1961, 1962.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Oh no.
- I didn't come into business until--
- the gay business?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- TIM TOMPKINS: My first gay business, I think,
- was buying into that Roman sauna,
- which is now the Rochester Spa and Body Club, in 1982.
- Then I opened The Liberty, which was a really popular gay bar,
- obviously, in June of 1984.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And then you had The Pentagon?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Oh, well, I did t hat with Mark.
- But I had thirteen or fourteen clubs over the years, so yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But when did you get--
- I thought you told me the Rochester Body Club came
- to you in payment for a--
- TIM TOMPKINS: They actually sort of got
- me involved in the ownership.
- Because two of the partners really wanted
- me to be a partner, apparently.
- Which was unbeknownst to me, at the time.
- So they had to do some work up there as a contractor.
- And then they, well we don't necessarily have all the money
- right at the moment.
- And then they said, this partner wants out.
- And they sort of talked me into buying his share.
- In lieu of payment, to a degree. and doing something out
- of this--
- (phone rings)
- EVELYN BAILEY: I said to Tim, he got the business--
- the gay business-- when he did some work at the Rochester Body
- Club--
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah, I was reading about that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: As a construction company.
- And they couldn't pay him.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Or they didn't want to.
- I'm not quite sure, still to this day.
- But actually, my first--
- when I got to Saint Bonaventure, I did a little contracting
- company with my father.
- He was a carpenter, Rick Ample type.
- So I actually remodeled Friar's Inn for Jesse Bulo.
- And Jesse and I became buddies.
- And then I ended up--
- then Jesse recommended me to the guys down at the spa.
- So then I went over there did a job for them.
- And that's how I got involved with that.
- Yeah, it's funny.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: You brought your recorder?
- EVELYN BAILEY: I did.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- The best way to handle this is, one person ask the questions
- while the recorder is going, and the other person just
- keeps writing notes.
- Which are you more comfortable with?
- EVELYN BAILEY: I'll write the notes.
- You ask the questions.
- I've already asked Tim--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm sure you've probably asked half of them
- already.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, no.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you want a pad, or?
- EVELYN BAILEY: I got this.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- Tim, this is just, more of us, our way
- of getting to know you a little bit better.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Sure.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And how we might be able to fit you
- into this eventual documentary.
- So that we have a better idea, when we do,
- maybe, find the company with the camera, a better idea of what
- we're going to be asking you.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Sure.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So it's just a casual conversation,
- just to get to know you, and how you've
- come up through the ranks, particularly
- in the gay community.
- And very supportive of the gay community.
- But now I want to turn the focus on the gay community.
- I really want to look at the community as a whole,
- and what you've done for it.
- Fair enough?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Sure.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Are you recording?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yes, it's on.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So why don't we just first start--
- you grew up in the area.
- Just talk me about your childhood, your boyhood.
- You know, what was the Rochester area--
- and I know you grew up in Wayne County, eventually.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah, actually it was the last couple
- of years of high school.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- So, what was this community, this area, like, growing up?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Well, I had a very good childhood, I think.
- We did move every four or five years,
- partially because my father was remodeling properties like,
- got it done.
- So we went twice on Black Creek and Chili, Churchville area.
- So I can remember being in seventh grade
- at Churchville-Chili.
- Then we moved to Gates Chili.
- Then eventually, the last few years were at Wayne Central.
- So a lot of Chili operating, Spencerport Chili area.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: When are we talking about?
- Late '60s, '70s?
- TIM TOMPKINS: I was born in '54.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: '54, OK.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Graduated high school '74, '73 I think.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So '60s early '70s,
- were a good, kind of formative, years of your youth?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah, right.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Looking back at those years in Rochester,
- what was your sense about Rochester
- being either a very progressive city, or a very conservative,
- or did you get a sense of that?
- TIM TOMPKINS: No, I think I had a sense of that.
- I thought it was a good place to live.
- Clearly we were proud of Xerox, Kodak.
- Bausch and Lomb doing it in those years.
- And I think business overall was good.
- I can remember feeling very positive about eventually
- probably becoming an intern--
- you know, even as a little boy, I always
- knew I'd be in my own business.
- (unintelligible) Definitely.
- I still feel good about Rochester, overall.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: We're going to get to that a little later.
- Just kind of moving on, I read that you--
- in one of these interviews that you did--
- that you didn't actually come out as a gay person
- until college years.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Right.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But you had a sense of it
- when you were in high school, which most of us did.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Right.
- I had a sense of it when I was seven or eight years old.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- Were there years before college that you
- got a sense of the gay community in Rochester?
- Did you know of it?
- TIM TOMPKINS: No, really didn't.
- I had a couple liaisons with people,
- I think in junior or senior high school.
- That was it.
- Lived a pretty much straight life, at that point.
- Went to Saint Bonaventure.
- And then, I do remember being at Saint Bonaventure, quite
- a few priests and brothers hitting on me
- sexually, quite frankly.
- And at the time, it kind of a turnoff.
- Because maybe I was even a little conservative--
- it's much more conservative, then.
- In terms of values, I would show little life, or whatever.
- Kind of a strict Catholic upbringing on my mother's side
- of the family.
- Although we weren't Catholic, because my father and mother
- couldn't marry, because my father wasn't a Catholic.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Oh, no, really?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah.
- I think I was brought up in a pretty conservative fashion.
- And I was certainly nervous about being the number one
- child, the oldest child.
- Probably dad and mom's favorite, if there is one, right?
- Certainly my father was living vicariously through me
- later in life.
- That was clear to all of my family members.
- I didn't want to disappoint them, and come home
- and say I was gay.
- I finally did in, I think, my sophomore or junior year
- of college.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What brought you to that point?
- TIM TOMPKINS: I think I was borderline
- depressed about living a lie.
- And not being able to-- my father
- brought me up not to ever lie.
- Certainly not to defraud him or my mother, especially.
- And I was on my conscience that I was not
- being honest with the two people I probably love the most.
- So it was just constantly building up.
- It's kind of a funny story, how I did come out.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Let's hear it.
- TIM TOMPKINS: I came home.
- And it was Friday afternoon.
- And my mother said, what's wrong?
- I said, I'm just not that happy.
- And I didn't really want to discuss it
- with her, at that point.
- And she worked at the Genesee Mental Health Center
- at the time.
- And I had met boss.
- Everyone may know the name, Dr. Susan Hanson.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I've heard of the name.
- But yeah.
- TIM TOMPKINS: We're very proud of this psychiatrist for years,
- here.
- And one of the first female psychiatrists,
- I think, in the Rochester area.
- And eventually ran the mental health center for
- Genesee Hospital.
- And so my mother called her up.
- She said, Susan-- my mother worked for her full-time--
- my son, he's just-- it's not him.
- It's not like him.
- So she was opening up the in-house unit for Genesee
- Hospital, late Saturday.
- She said, bring him in, eight o'clock in the morning.
- So I actually was with her from eight o'clock
- on Saturday to 11:00 a.m.
- And this is absolutely the truth.
- I never felt bad about being gay again.
- So it was interesting, you know?
- She really made me feel totally different.
- And I never did.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And that's interesting, back
- in that decade.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah, that was like 1976 or so.
- To have that meeting with her.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well also interesting that your mother
- would have the foresight that--
- know that something was wrong.
- Of course, I think all mothers do, probably.
- TIM TOMPKINS: I think my mother was waiting.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, definitely.
- TIM TOMPKINS: It wasn't that easy, then.
- You know people were--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: A lot of them, they weren't exposed to it.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Especially my father,
- was a man's man type of guy.
- I used to go out deer hunting with him,
- and hunting pheasants with him, and you know what I mean?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So how did they take it?
- It seems to me like they took it fairly well.
- TIM TOMPKINS: I think at first they were a little shocked.
- Maybe at first my father was a little disappointed.
- He thought he might not have grandchildren with me,
- or you know?
- But it was evident within six months or so
- that they both completely accepted it.
- So I think went pretty smooth sailing, after.
- Much better than some people have.
- And I realize that.
- And I think, just another facet of my live
- where I was lucky, in a sense.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Sure.
- So you graduated from Saint Bonaventure, '78?
- TIM TOMPKINS: 1978.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- Was it at that point, then, you started getting out
- into the gay community?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yep, definitely.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: In Rochester?
- What was it like?
- Talk to me about--
- TIM TOMPKINS: It was a lot of fun.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: How so?
- Why?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Well, first of all, we were the baby boomers.
- So there was a wide range of guys out there, right?
- And it was fun times.
- It really was.
- If you were out raising hell a couple nights a week,
- that's the way it was.
- And I'm sure some people would say
- today, well, it was excess partying, or whatever.
- But I got to tell you, it was one of the most fun
- times in my life.
- Going to Friar's and knowing the owner,
- and meeting all kinds of people, and having fun.
- It really was.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: When did Friar's start?
- How long was Friar's?
- TIM TOMPKINS: I think Friar's probably started around 1970.
- But he owned The Rathskeller before that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Jesse Bulo.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Jesse Bulo.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Owned the Rathskeller.
- TIM TOMPKINS: B-U-L-O. Yeah.
- And he was an amazing guy, to me.
- Because again, I was a young guy,
- and he was older, but quite a mentor.
- A successful number of different enterprises, as well.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What was your sense
- as far as the gay community goes, here in Rochester,
- during that time period?
- As far as the sense of people's openness about it?
- Because as far as I hear, that's--
- (interposing voices).
- TIM TOMPKINS: I think verbally, it certainly
- wasn't like it was today.
- But quietly, I think it was accepted.
- There were suspicions that one mayor who wasn't--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Barry?
- TIM TOMPKINS: An official mayor.
- A city manager, the man--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Right.
- Before we started electing mayors.
- TIM TOMPKINS: He was Stephen, what's his name?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Stephen May.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah, that he was gay, you know?
- You had Midge Costanza.
- I mean, right?
- Let's face it, you had a huge liberal influence
- at the U of R. And I think that's what
- really helped fortify and project
- the gay community in this area.
- And I think you had a huge liberal influence in accepting,
- in that regard.
- I think there were some facets of the city, and the community,
- that didn't accept it.
- I can remember when I opened up my first gay bar in 1984.
- Literally every Friday and Saturday
- night, this old Sergeant would come in at 5:02,
- and stare me and my customers down,
- to make sure didn't go one minute past serving.
- And you could just see, he was scowling at gay men.
- Yeah.
- And to Gordon Urlacher's credit--
- later had a fall from grace--
- I did call Gordon Urlacher, I think
- he was a Lieutenant, then.
- Because he was kind of friendly.
- And he was in the downtown area.
- And I said, I got a a real problem with this guy.
- I can remember exactly what he said to me, today,
- on the phone.
- He said, Tim, you're never going to to see him again.
- And you know what?
- I never saw that Sergeant again.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Interesting.
- TIM TOMPKINS: And it was interesting that he did that.
- He didn't have to, right?
- He was progressive enough to say that this guy is running
- a good business, he's not in trouble with us,
- he improved a building.
- Why the hell should that Sergeant
- be in there hassling him?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: You're paying taxes.
- TIM TOMPKINS: I later paid Gordon Urlacher back for that,
- in a number of way.
- But I thought it was--
- you kind of like Gordon Urlacher, too.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
- TIM TOMPKINS: It's a shame, what happened to the guy.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I don't really know him.
- It's before my time.
- I don't want to say before my time, but--
- TIM TOMPKINS: He was the Chief of police, and very popular.
- Very charismatic individual.
- Went right up the ranks fast, became Chief.
- But had a fall from grace, because he and his associate,
- Roy Ruffin, were convicted--
- or I don't know if Roy was--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Oh, no I who you're talking about, right.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Of taking money, or evidence, or money out
- of the evidence fun.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yep.
- Yep.
- Now I know who you're talking about.
- TIM TOMPKINS: So it was quite sad, because--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: It was like, in the '90s.
- TIM TOMPKINS: He was a guy who could have been mayor, also.
- He could have been a police Chief turned mayor, as well.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And Urlacher was the first police
- liaison in the gay community?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Right.
- Now his name is coming back to me.
- TIM TOMPKINS: But I think part of that
- is because we were pals.
- And it all worked nicely, it really did.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So it's fun times in the 1980s.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yep.
- Late '70s, '80s.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Late '70s, a lot of good social outlets.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Until, you know, all of a sudden, I remember--
- I can't remember which bar I had at that point.
- It might have just been the Liberty, still.
- And I started hearing rumblings about this disease.
- San Francisco, New York, and no one
- even had an acronym, or a name for it, yet.
- It was even before they called it GRID.
- Gay-Related Immune Disorder, before that.
- And somehow I think Sue Cowell and I talked,
- and I can't remember if I flew Tim Sweeney up,
- or if he came up on his own.
- But I organized a meeting with him, talking to gay men.
- And he said, look, we've got a real problem on our hands.
- This is going to really be scary.
- You're going to-- you know.
- And then, sadly, for me personally, at the same time,
- Jesse Bulo got sick.
- And yeah, I don't know if it was ever discussed
- that he had AIDS, until--
- EVELYN BAILEY: What year?
- TIM TOMPKINS: I think he died before the acronym
- AIDS came about.
- Can ask Bobby about that.
- So we had Tim Sweeney up, and then, from that point
- on, things changed.
- At least for me.
- Because I saw a lot of people get sick and die.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The '80s,
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Late '80s.
- TIM TOMPKINS: And one time, I remember
- we were naming rooms after people, AIDS Rochester,
- and I was donating money for rooms,
- and I actually just took a pad of paper.
- And I stopped at sixty-five names.
- That was a lot of people to know, personally,
- in one way or another, that died.
- So yeah, fun times hit a wall, in a sense.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, and we'll get into that.
- It also changed who we were, in the community's eye.
- Well let's talk about opening your first bar.
- That was '84, you said?
- Which bar was that?
- TIM TOMPKINS: The Liberty.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: It was the Liberty, OK.
- Let's talk about your choice of opening a bar like that.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Well, I spent a lot of time
- over at Friar's, and I thought, gee, I could do this.
- And although I just remodeled Friar's space,
- I didn't really like way it looked, in terms
- of spatial constraints.
- It was a small building, and the dance floor was real tiny.
- And I sort of thought, I could design a better space
- than this.
- So I didn't really want to compete with my friend, Jesse.
- But then he said to me, you're going to do something.
- And he wanted to be my partner.
- But then he got real sick, and that all changed.
- So eventually, I just did this project.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Let me pull you back on that, a little bit,
- then.
- Because you hit something with it.
- Your vision of what you wanted to do with the Liberty, what
- do you think you were doing that wasn't already out there?
- TIM TOMPKINS: You know, in my opinion, for the most part,
- there just weren't really nice gay bars at that point.
- Some were owned by straight people
- just sort of taking advantage of gay people.
- Some were--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Owned by the mob.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah.
- The lesbian bar off of--
- was owned by the mob for years.
- At Allen Street.
- And I just thought we were sort of
- treated like second-class citizens,
- to a degree, when it came to that.
- I had an interest in creating something really nice.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: However, this was
- in the midst of the whole AIDS epidemic,
- really starting to come to a head.
- TIM TOMPKINS: It was started, yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What were some of the challenges in starting
- a bar?
- TIM TOMPKINS: I don't think the bar was
- affected by that at all.
- Certainly spas were.
- It was kind of ironic, right after I bought into the spa,
- there was a cover of Newsweek.
- The AIDS Crisis.
- And then, this is literally right afterwards.
- And the sales went down $2,500 a week.
- I remember that.
- And I remember saying to myself, what kind of investment
- did you make here?
- So that eventually took some of the business back.
- But for a long time-- you know, they closed all of them
- in New York City.
- Except for someone-- who is now a friend of mine--
- who I didn't that he owned two of the smallest ones.
- And he got under the radar.
- They closed all the ones in 700, or 800, 900 rooms.
- Which, there was four to five of them at that point in time.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Wow.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah.
- They closed them all.
- And his two tiny places are open.
- So he became an instant multi-millionaire
- in New York City.
- Because he had the two smallest ones, and they were open.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, so in '84 you got Liberty going.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Mm-hm.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: That went into the '90s, didn't it?
- TIM TOMPKINS: I think so, yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Because I know I started coming out around '89,
- and I remember going there.
- Well, then this opportunity with the bathhouse came along?
- TIM TOMPKINS: No, the bathhouse was first.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Was that first?
- What year was that, then?
- TIM TOMPKINS: I think it was '82.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: That was '82.
- Oh, OK.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Somewhere, '81 or '82.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, well then let's jump back a little bit.
- There's this opportunity with the bathhouse.
- To be blunt, I would just say to you, why?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah.
- Well I sort of got tricked into it.
- There was three partners.
- Two of them didn't like the third partner, I guess.
- So I did a remodeling job, and they sort of
- said, well, we don't really have the cash right now.
- They sort of fibbed a little bit.
- But I realized later, they sort of wanted me in on the deal.
- Maybe for real estate advice, or maybe for construction.
- Or maybe because I was younger.
- Maybe because they could see I was going to be up and coming.
- I don't know for sure.
- But it was clear to me, years later,
- it was a calculated plan.
- So I wasn't really--
- you know, I had been to a bathhouse a couple times.
- But it really isn't my style.
- I'm more of a romantic type, quite frankly.
- And this may sound odd that the guy owns the bathhouse.
- But it was just another business, for me.
- Do you know what I mean?
- Right now I own five businesses.
- It's just the way I am.
- So it was a business.
- It didn't really turn me on a personal level.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well I wanted to hit upon that.
- Because it was like, OK, was this just a business decision?
- Or did you think you were still offering something
- to the community?
- Or a little bit of both?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Well, again, I think
- I made that place 100 times better.
- I'm an improver.
- I like to buy something that is in a state of disrepair,
- or not looking good, and make it wonderful.
- That's my MO.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But then again, we got hit with AIDS.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So then you're second guessing your choice
- of taking on--
- TIM TOMPKINS: I got to second guess myself.
- For one thing, I didn't really identify with it, personally.
- It obviously seemed, now, not to me
- a solid financial investment.
- At times I thought, well, am I-- this is very, you know, oh,
- was I contributing to AIDS by keeping it open?
- But I quickly realized that actually, in essence,
- I probably helped save lives.
- Because we had safe sex literature in each room, and we
- had condoms.
- And people are going to have sex no matter what.
- Young kids are still getting it, unfortunately.
- They don't even go to bathhouses anymore.
- Seven years ago, Forbes said--
- they listed ten extinct businesses.
- One of the items on the list, on the front page of Forbes,
- was gay bars.
- An I'll predict, within another five to ten years,
- spas will be extinct, too.
- So I've already got plans to change my building
- into loft apartments.
- The spa today is Grindr on someone's phone.
- I was amazed.
- This gay kid was showing me.
- He was at one, and he goes, here.
- Mr. Tompkins, look at this.
- And he just-- all these pictures of these guys.
- And it even shows you whether they're
- half a mile from you, or not.
- This is the bathhouse of this century.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well are you surprised that the bathhouse
- has lasted as long as it has?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah.
- I am, actually.
- I think it's, again, because we have a higher per capita
- of gay men in the city.
- So we've got baby boomers.
- It's been there since 1962, so it's, I think,
- the oldest bathhouse in New York State, probably, at this point.
- Certainly one of the oldest ones in North America.
- Just a little bit of history.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Still In existence.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Still in existence.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So were there other competition?
- TIM TOMPKINS: At one time, there were
- three bathhouse in Rochester.
- There might have only been two when I bought into the spa.
- But you know, Tom and Joan when they did Emory's Restaurant.
- I don't know if they like to tell a lot of people,
- but they did.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What were the three bathhouses?
- TIM TOMPKINS: I don't know if I can remember the names.
- EVELYN BAILEY: The Roman.
- TIM TOMPKINS: There was one, The Roman
- was the one at Liberty Pole Way.
- And the other side of Liberty Pole Way,
- which used to be on the second floor of the building I
- actually bought.
- It had a fire, and they never reopened it.
- So I actually bought that building.
- That's where I did the Liberty.
- So I remember the whole second floor was a bathhouse, burned.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Oh, interesting.
- TIM TOMPKINS: So we took everything out.
- When I opened, I just did the first floor,
- did the Liberty, when it began.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: While we're in the '80s,
- let's talk a little bit about AIDS activism.
- Obviously, your name comes up because you
- were at the forefront of it.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Again, talk to me
- about the atmosphere of the community, then.
- What was going on?
- Obviously, a lot of people were scared.
- TIM TOMPKINS: A lot of people were scared.
- But there was people who just immediately rallied
- in this community.
- And again, because I own the spa,
- I remember being called upon for a founders
- meeting for AIDS Rochester.
- But I was a little nervous about me owning the spa,
- and going to the meeting.
- So I actually sent Alan Davidson,
- who worked for me, at the time.
- He's now known as a founder of AIDS Rochester, in fact.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- I know Alan.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah, so he was Alan, and Sue, and John.
- They got the credit for founding AIDS Rochester.
- But I just didn't want to be on the TV cameras,
- and own the spa, at the time.
- So we got it organized.
- And we used to meet then were really pulled away.
- I can't remember if we met on top of Tara's first.
- Or I think we moved over there.
- We first met in a basement of Creative Plastics,
- because Mike Scarfia owned it.
- And he had a gay son.
- Or he had a son that got AIDS.
- Whether he was out or not--
- I don't think he was, maybe.
- So we used to actually meet in a basement of a building.
- This is how this organization started.
- In my opinion, really, Sue Cowell
- was probably the most important impetus.
- I don't want to take away from other people.
- But I've always sort of associate it with Sue Cowell.
- Strong leadership, and a wealth of knowledge.
- Considering other people--
- Chip, and Evelyn, and me, Channel Tiery lots of people
- played in important roles.
- I'm not going to be able to think of all their names.
- But we really certainly rallied, and made AIDS Rochester happen.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And you mentioned something,
- right at the beginning, that I don't
- want to lose the thought on.
- Is that, this community rallied.
- And that you say that a number of different ways.
- TIM TOMPKINS: It's always rallied.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Why do you think that is?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Whether it was for ESPA,
- whether it was for gay rights before ESPA, whether it was--
- a group of the older guys I don't
- mean to sound like my buddy Dan Meyers.
- He is 10 years older than me.
- Dan Meyers, and Tom, and Joe, and Duffy Hickey and all kinds
- of people got together and just used
- to do fundraising with what's Helping People with Aids, HPA.
- And that was needed, because AIDS Rochester
- was just a fledgling little service organization,
- in the beginning.
- And HPA really got people together.
- Threw a party.
- They raised some big bucks.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Oh yeah, I know, I attended a few.
- But I want to back to, why do you think
- this particular community of Rochester
- has that rallying spirit?
- I'm not even necessarily on the gay community.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Well I think they have a huge intellectual
- capability in the gay community here,
- where other cities and towns didn't.
- You had (unintelligible) U of R professors.
- You had executives, quietly, at Xerox Kodak,
- and Bausch and Lomb.
- At one point, I think we were in the top 5 percent per capita
- for gay people.
- Now we're down to, I think, 15 percent, but at one point
- we were top five in the nation.
- So you had a lot of people rallying to causes.
- Intelligent people.
- And our economy was good, too.
- People could contribute.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- Let's hope that comes back.
- So let's move on from the bathhouse, Liberty.
- Let's move on from that point.
- You're also known not only just for owning gay bars,
- or whatever, but also as just a prominent businessperson.
- Talk me about that part of your life.
- And how do you balance that part of your life with the--
- OK, this is the Rochester business life that I lead.
- But this is also the gay community life I lead.
- TIM TOMPKINS: I never really had a problem.
- I don't think I'm a banner-waver, necessarily,
- but you can't become as successful as I have
- in business in a small town like this without people knowing
- if you're married or not, if you have children, or--
- I mean, no one ever made a joke in front of my face
- that I was gay.
- But I'm sure I walked out of some meetings sometimes,
- and people said, oh, do you know he's gay?
- But honest to god, I never really--
- and feel sorry for other people.
- I've never really suffered from discrimination, personally.
- I was immensely accepted in the straight world.
- (phone vibrates)
- EVELYN BAILEY: Why?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Well, you know, I don't know whether it's--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you want to answer that or?
- TIM TOMPKINS: No.
- I don't know whether it's because maybe, at times, I
- appear so straight-acting, or I don't know what it is.
- Maybe it's because I'm successful.
- Maybe they like my personality.
- I don't know.
- But I just never really felt any discrimination.
- It sounds crazy, doesn't it?
- But I never really did.
- EVELYN BAILEY: There was a time prior
- to Urlacher when everyone in power--
- or in authority-- in this city seemed
- to be at the parties of gay men that were thrown.
- And then, that changed somewhat.
- Was it the fact that you were so involved in--
- I don't want to say in an elite circle.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Me personally, do you mean?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- But certainly not with the person
- who's walking the street.
- Or you mentioned intellectual and educational ideas
- being the reason why the community rallied,
- and had a more positive view, perhaps, of LGBT people.
- So perhaps it was because you ran in those circles.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Oh, maybe.
- I might speak from a little prejudice, I suppose.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And I don't want to look down
- on people who are not as educated, or not as open.
- But--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Let me ask this question.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Well, let me make this clear, then, maybe.
- I never felt discrimination.
- But I certainly was aware of how my gay brothers and sisters
- were discriminated against.
- And I was very concerned how people were treated.
- So I converted this one gay kid that was just coming out,
- making fun of a guy who was a drag
- queen, who was very effeminate.
- And he actually said to me, this young gay kid
- said to me, well why does he act like that?
- I looked at him, and I said, Steve,
- because that's the way he is.
- He thought the effeminate side of his personality was--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Wasn't out.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Something left to the shower.
- Yeah.
- So I was clearly always aware.
- And I used to this one guy, Phil Tiery-- do you remember Phil?
- This guy looked like he had AIDS before AIDS came out.
- He was 380 pounds, apparently, in high school.
- And all of the sudden, went on a diet, and lost the weight.
- He's a real character.
- But you know, I could see that people were not
- necessarily accepting of Phil.
- He was flamboyant, and he was a real, real character.
- And his mother and father were Kodakers.
- And his father was a mariner at the Rochester Yacht Club.
- And it was probably a little bit of an embarrassment,
- at times, for them to have Phil.
- But nonetheless, they loved their son.
- But I always felt sorry for Phil.
- Because people would make fun of him.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And that's a question I wanted to get into.
- Your perception of, is there more than one gay community
- in Rochester?
- I think there's a lot of prejudice
- within our own community.
- In regards to classism, or feminism, or whatever.
- Have you seen that all along?
- TIM TOMPKINS: I've seen that all along.
- I don't know if you can find the Empty Closet.
- Posit I might have it in my archives, somewhere.
- But at one time I noticed a lot--
- just the bars used to fight.
- So if you were loyal to the Forum,
- if you were loyal to the Liberty,
- if you were loyal to Friar's.
- I mean there was just so much war going on.
- Or certain drag queens were camped against this drag queen
- farm team.
- And I think at one time--
- I can't remember exactly what I worded.
- But I took out the back page of the Empty Closet.
- I said, we have enough enemies on the outside.
- We shouldn't fight from within, or something.
- Do you remember when I did this?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- TIM TOMPKINS: A lot of people were pissed at me,
- because I put that in writing.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you remember about what year that was?
- TIM TOMPKINS: And maybe I shouldn't
- have done it or written it, but I felt that way.
- Like, god, here we are in a little microcosm of society.
- And people were at each other's throats, sometimes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: It was probably late '80s, early '90s.
- I'll check it out.
- I'll find it.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, it'd be interesting to find.
- From the '80s, up until--
- what is it?
- Thirty years later, now?
- Oh my god.
- How have you seen things change within the community?
- They've changed drastically, I think.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah, I think so.
- I think we're in a much better state, obviously.
- Everyone reminded me that I said,
- the challenge was for marriage.
- Here we are.
- Five years later, we have it, right?
- You might have heard that my buddy, Bob Duffy,
- was the first mayor to endorse marriage here.
- And then he took it to United States Conference, to mayors,
- and got it approved there.
- Which was ballsy of him to do, really.
- And it's interesting that him and Cuomo teamed up.
- And here we are.
- So it's an interesting combination
- of events and people.
- But Bob was certainly helped greatly
- by Mark Siewic and Tim Tompkins.
- Two people that aren't just gay, but are successful, right?
- And between just those two names,
- certainly moved him along in his fight to win that democratic--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So was there a point somewhere along the way,
- where people like you, or Mark, or maybe Duffy, or whatever,
- realized that our energies could be
- used more effectively if we got more
- into some political influence?
- Or some political change?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Well I personally got involved politically
- because of the AIDS thing.
- I'm not going to speak for Mark and Duffy.
- I think Mark has more interest in politics than I do.
- I know I got involved in politics mainly for AIDS.
- But then I also get re-involved, maybe.
- Certainly I helped certain people
- along the way that were candidates.
- But I got really excited about Bob Duffy's candidacy.
- Because I trusted Bob.
- I knew him.
- I used to be the landlord for the downtown police station.
- So I had a few business dealings with him.
- I'd certainly met him, socially and professionally.
- And I liked him.
- So I sort of got re-involved, politically.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Jump in here if you--
- I'm kind of running out of questions.
- But I do want to look back at these years
- that you've been involved as a businessperson in Rochester.
- As an activist in Rochester.
- As a person actively involved in the social scene in Rochester.
- What do you think has been your biggest impact?
- What are you most proud of?
- TIM TOMPKINS: In terms of the gay community, or?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: In general.
- Whatever comes to mind, of who you are.
- TIM TOMPKINS: I think that I'm most proud of supporting
- causes, or giving back.
- Although it's been fun to be successful,
- monetarily, and achieve business--
- you know-- levels.
- It's always nice to be able to throw a party for a cause,
- pay for the whole thing, or write a check,
- or persuade people to do certain things at certain times that
- would make the AIDS cause get better.
- I think you reach a point where--
- I like business.
- For me, it's like playing Monopoly.
- It's just a fun thing for me.
- It really is.
- You know what I mean?
- I'll be fifty-seven in December.
- But I wake up every morning--
- I'm trying to text my assistant.
- As soon as he will respond.
- You know-- it's just the way I am.
- I wake up happy every morning, and I
- can't wait to get started.
- It's just my nature.
- EVELYN BAILEY: One house, two house, three house, four house,
- than a hotel, then the next street, and the next street,
- then monopoly.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So a similar question
- to what I just asked you.
- Just a slightly different way of asking.
- Years from now, many years from now,
- when people look back at who you are,
- and what you've done with this community,
- or done in this community, how do you want to be remembered?
- How do you want them to look at you, and say, oh yeah,
- Tim Tompkins, he did this.
- TIM TOMPKINS: I guess I hear this
- from certain people at certain times.
- I think want to just be known, that I was generous.
- I'll be happy with that.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: As you know, this is involved with a project
- that we're calling Shoulders to Stand On.
- And the people who have had active influence
- on who we are today, and as far as we've come today.
- On many different levels.
- Whose shoulders do you stand on?
- Who do you think, besides yourself,
- may either have had a real impact in your life--
- particularly within the gay community-- or really--
- TIM TOMPKINS: I think when you're successful,
- and you feel good about yourself,
- in order to be either one of those two of those things,
- I think you need good mentors, all along the way.
- And for whatever reasons, I was blessed with real good mentors.
- Since I was a little boy.
- And I think I had a degree of self confidence because
- of that.
- I can remember when I was poor as a church mouse.
- My father went broke.
- We moved from Chili to Wayne Central.
- I used to work for Judge Haylor on Buffalo Road,
- Saturday morning.
- I was like twelve or thirteen, maybe, or eleven.
- And this guy was a big man.
- He's the judge of our town over (unintelligible).
- And he was a successful attorney.
- And to me, he lived in this big mansion on Buffalo Road.
- And I used to mow the lawn.
- But he liked me.
- And he had no grandkids up here.
- He had two grandchildren in Washington.
- So I was like an adopted grandchild for him,
- it was clear.
- And we'd work.
- And sometimes he would just have me
- do things which, I now realize, was probably
- his way of instilling some discipline in me.
- And then we'd have lunch together.
- Then we'd go out and work in his yard, again.
- And then we'd have dinner together.
- So I can remember him at dinner, one time, saying to me--
- well he used to call me Timmy.
- He'd say, Timmy, you probably don't
- realize how lucky you are.
- But you'll be able to do some good things.
- And you're going to be successful.
- And he said, I just want you to remember one thing.
- Please remember to give back.
- Now, at the time, when I was going home
- to a room where there is no paneling,
- or drywall on my bedroom wall, and I
- can remember certain teeth saying Cobain Insulation
- between two studs.
- And on a bad winter storm, the snow
- would blow on my face and back.
- I'm thinking, what the hell is this guy talking about?
- But it always stayed with me.
- And so I like to think that I honored his statement there.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: To be generous.
- TIM TOMPKINS: He was a great man, definitely.
- Just one example of someone who was a good mentor for me.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: We kind of touched
- on this, and how things have changed over the last thirty
- years.
- You're more in tune with the community than I am.
- How are things now?
- Where are we headed?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Well, I think we're
- going to be challenged economically, unfortunately.
- And I think for years this town was blessed
- with a lot of really successful gay people that
- could write big checks, or can throw parties and gather money.
- And I think that was a blessing in this town.
- Will that be happening as much as it
- did in the next five years?
- I don't know.
- I really wonder.
- Right now Mark Siewic and I are talking
- about maybe doing something just under (unintelligible)
- I can see that some people are hesitant about how much
- the ticket price should be.
- It's interesting how--
- I mean we're certainly in, nationally, a bad economy.
- I have lots of thoughts on that.
- I think that's going to be one of the challenges.
- How are we going to fund the Gay Alliance?
- Certainly ESPA, and AIDS Care, and Gay Alliance
- are going to be competing for a much smaller pot.
- Both at the state budget level, and, clearly,
- Cuomo is going to be probably the most fiscally
- conservative governor.
- There's more to come, in terms of his activity there.
- I was a fiscal Democrat when it wasn't
- popular to be a fiscal Democrat.
- So I think economics are going to be the challenge, probably.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And its impact on everything that we do?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah, on what we can do.
- Right.
- Because, like it or not, in politics
- money still has a big role.
- And when it comes to supporting AIDS Care--
- which is going to be hurting for money, probably, soon--
- where is the money coming from, right?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Right.
- Particularly when a lot of people don't think AIDS
- is an issue, anymore.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Mm-hm.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Go ahead.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You said three years ago,
- marriage equality was the next challenge.
- And we talked about this before Kevin got here.
- Legally, what rights are next?
- In other words, we've got marriage equality.
- But where do we go from here?
- Is this the end of the road?
- TIM TOMPKINS: I don't know if it's the end of the road.
- I think we still have a long road to go,
- In terms of overall acceptance.
- I think we need to make it easier for very young people
- to deal with it.
- Maybe I was lucky.
- What if I had not come home?
- I was probably severely depressed
- about being gay the last two years of high school
- and the first two years of college.
- What if I wasn't as strong, and then, you know.
- Right?
- It definitely was the bottom for me.
- But certainly some kids still commit suicide.
- So I think making a better life for youth
- is still very important.
- And I think overall acceptance still has some avenues
- to travel, definitely.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Can I ask, just so we can get this on paper,
- because I don't want to lose it.
- Your involvement with AIDS Care, and AIDS activism,
- it's pretty self-explanatory.
- What other things have you been involved with?
- Youth groups?
- We know about the politics.
- TIM TOMPKINS: I think at one time or another,
- I supported just about every gay rights cause out there.
- Quite frankly.
- I think I had the first fundraiser for Tim Mains
- at the Liberty.
- I can remember loaning AIDS ration money to make payroll.
- That's how bad it was in the beginning.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now, talk to me about Jackie Nudd, Paula
- Silvestrone, and Jay Redman.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah.
- Well that's a happy scenario.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Were they the right people at the right time?
- TIM TOMPKINS: That's a happy scenario for me.
- I'm glad to talk about that.
- Because originally, Jackie Nudd was certainly an activist,
- and brought some attention to it.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And Jackie Nudd was with AIDS Rochester, right?
- TIM TOMPKINS: She was the first executive director, right.
- But the flip side of Jackie Nudd was,
- she was educated, not sophisticated,
- and she could be really mean-spirited with certain
- people at certain times.
- So obviously, she saw me as an ally,
- because I was extremely supportive, financially.
- And I was on the board at that point, too.
- But you know what one of the golden rules for AIDS activism
- was?
- You never disclosed someone's status.
- And I was having lunch with her one day,
- and she told me about another gay man I knew,
- and she told he was HIV positive.
- You know?
- And then there was a couple other things
- that came up in the community, in relation to that.
- And then I went back to Sue Cowell.
- And I said, Sue, I think we got a couple of strange things
- going on, here.
- And eventually, Sue Cowell and I led the fight
- to get rid of Jackie Nudd.
- Which did not make me popular, for a while.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I remember the news reports.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Now she was a little bit of a hero.
- She'd go out drinking with the boys.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I remember the news reports.
- In fact, I have videotape of it, I think.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah.
- But she really did a great disservice.
- She played her role.
- And then this became commonplace in many AIDS organizations
- throughout the country.
- That the volunteer activist who got the job
- was actually not suited, once the organizations
- began to grown.
- But it was really brutal.
- We had to get AIDS Institute in here.
- And I had to give depositions.
- I was threatened by Jackie, and Jackie's girlfriend
- at the time.
- She tried to go after the spa a little bit, at that point.
- It was just really nasty.
- And then some gay brothers turned against me.
- Why are you chasing after Jackie Nudd?
- So it was a disheartening period for me, actually.
- For an organization that, basically, I helped get going.
- And was supporting in lots of different ways.
- Time, and money, and fundraisers.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So Jackie was out.
- And then it was Paula that came in?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Jackie was out.
- Paula came in.
- And then Paula asked me to go back on the board.
- She had read all the transcripts, and she said,
- I'd like you to consider coming back on the board.
- So I said yes.
- Actually at the time, she said, you know, I'd
- probably like to consider you being president someday.
- So I started coming back on the board.
- But, at that point, there was a lot of funding pouring in.
- And make no mistake about it, at some point, Paula
- and I didn't get along.
- And it was mainly over this.
- That I felt-- we had $3 million at one time in reserves.
- And in certain deposit classifications.
- And it was just about the time that we had another resurgence,
- and people becoming seropositive, you know.
- And younger guys becoming positive.
- So I got very alarmed and nervous about it.
- And at the time, I think we had thirty caseworkers.
- But the caseworkers were making money for AIDS Rochester,
- at the time.
- And I think we had four or five people in prevention.
- And outreach, and counseling.
- So to me, the scale was way out of whack.
- So as a board member, I started pushing for--
- at the time, a prevention worker was
- a total cost of $32,000 a year.
- I'm sure it's $50,000 now.
- So she and I really locked horns over that.
- I ended up leaving AIDS Rochester.
- I think I was on the executive committee, I resigned.
- And then I became president of HPA right?
- So then I started raising money for HBA.
- I did give some money to AIDS Rochester
- as the president for specific uses,
- but I did not just want to pad the fund.
- You know what I really did?
- I took care of the clients.
- Because I had the HPA wish list, and I
- would raise money, and just give them money for wish lists,
- only for a while.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Excellent.
- TIM TOMPKINS: So Paula and I didn't end up getting along.
- Definitely that.
- And then, I was never really overly involved at CHN.
- I was more involved at Strong.
- And AIDS Rochester.
- You sort of had to pick your team, at that point.
- But Bill Valenti, I remember Bill Valenti calling me up.
- I'd like you to meet this guy.
- And you know what?
- I always liked Jay Redman And I still like him today.
- As a matter of fact, his son worked for me me
- for the summer years.
- I gave his son a summer job.
- It's just that, he's a very collegial, smart guy.
- Everyone likes him.
- And look what he's done.
- He really is responsible for taking CHN to AIDS care.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: About merging them, and--
- TIM TOMPKINS: And this is kind of funny.
- I brought up at a board meeting, when
- Paula was at AIDS Rochester, maybe
- we should look at combining CHN and AIDS Rochester.
- Well that didn't go well with Paula, either.
- And you realize, Paula didn't really
- offer to combine the two till she
- had a severe back operation.
- And she was announcing her retirement.
- But I was happy to see, finally--
- maybe fifteen years after I suggested it--
- that they did combine.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, they did.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Because it really--
- and clearly, now-- it makes even more economic sense
- that they combine.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Now, what has happened with HPA?
- TIM TOMPKINS: I was the president that disbanded it.
- It was why I did it.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Because I was never quite clear
- if it got disbanded, or if it just kind of merged
- in with CHN, or something.
- TIM TOMPKINS: It's a funny story.
- It not only got disbanded, but we gave out all the money,
- like fools.
- And then we didn't save any of the money.
- So I just finally paid the last legal and accounting.
- It cost me $2,300 to close out HPA legally
- with the IRS and New York State.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Wow.
- TIM TOMPKINS: They kept giving me hassle.
- They wanted this and that.
- Anyway, it's closed out.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But wasn't true, by the time--
- because I was on the board of HPA
- that last year, when we voted to terminate it--
- that many of the things that HPA was providing for AIDS patients
- was being covered by social services,
- and by other agencies?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yes.
- To me we were competing raising funds
- with AIDS Rochester, Strong.
- Who doesn't really raise too much funds, but occasionally.
- And CHN, who was starving for funds.
- AIDS Rochester had better funding at the time
- than CHN did.
- So I thought, well, why am I heading
- an organization that's competing with these nonprofits?
- We don't offer any services.
- The best thing about HPA was that we have that wishlist.
- Because everything else-- we really would--
- Bill Valenti would come, and say, how about this grant?
- So we'd give CHN a grant.
- And AIDS Rochester would say, would you
- give us money for a van?
- So things like that.
- | was an economics major.
- And I'm a little bit of a pragmatist, at time.
- So I'd probably like to see things
- organized from macroeconomic point of view.
- I just didn't see HPA.
- I didn't see the relevancy of it, really.
- And I persuaded the board to agree, I guess.
- When I did, finally, there was a few people disappointed.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- I was never really quite sure of why it even started.
- TIM TOMPKINS: It started because there was no fundraising group.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Right.
- And I think that's why.
- It was more to kind of conduit.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And there was no money.
- TIM TOMPKINS: It was also successful at fundraising.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Right.
- (interposing voices).
- TIM TOMPKINS: It perpetuates.
- Yeah, it perpetuated itself in parts of town.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well it was a great idea, great concept.
- TIM TOMPKINS: It became more difficult to raise money
- in the later years, definitely.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: It's interesting that a lot
- of organizations-- other nonprofits--
- are still trying to follow that same model.
- But I don't think they're as successful.
- TIM TOMPKINS: No.
- I don't think so, either.
- There was a unique group of people, unique period of time.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, definitely.
- TIM TOMPKINS: But there's lots of fundraisers, now.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, I know.
- TIM TOMPKINS: There's seven in my calendar, right night.
- People are-- LEC and Mark Siewic and I
- are going back and forth on dates,
- and who should be on a committee.
- And Sandor Frankel is asking the gay community to do something.
- And Tom Privitere is communicating with me
- every other day, lately.
- And you know, Matt's trying to have one for a new guy--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So let me ask you this.
- This really isn't for the interview.
- But who really got LEC to turn around?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Well, I think it's Michael Bloomberg.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Do you?
- OK.
- TIM TOMPKINS: And I think that, the meeting--
- I think Andrew's people and Bloomberg got together, sat LEC
- down, and said, look, you're going to be taken care of.
- I'm sure ESPA played a little role.
- But ESPA compared to Cuomo and Bloomberg,
- ESPA going to want to say he it all, probably.
- Let's keep this off--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, right, exactly.
- It's not for the interview, I was just curious.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Clearly, in my mind, it was Michael Bloomberg.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Bloomberg, yeah.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Because he can write the check.
- He can gather up ten people and say, send this guy
- the maximum amount.
- Right?
- Plus he can send it five different ways.
- So I think it was Michael Bloomberg.
- And I don't mean to insult anyone.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: No, no, I was just curious.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Let me Go.
- Back to CHN.
- TIM TOMPKINS: But ESPA has been doing a great thing
- over the years, personally, I think.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- And AIDS care.
- Do you think there is still a need in this community--
- or in any community--
- for a separate health care facility and clinic
- for AIDS patients?
- TIM TOMPKINS: OK.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Or is it time--
- TIM TOMPKINS: Well, here's the way I see it.
- Just three months ago, we had a meeting at one.
- And it's called the President's Advisory Council for AIDS care.
- Bill Valenti was there.
- Several other members, Sue Cowell was there.
- Jay Redman.
- What's the person's name, that new one?
- Do you know his--?
- He's President of AIDS Care, now.
- I can't remember his first name.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I don't know.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Anyway, there was maybe ten or eleven of us
- in the room.
- And the discussion was about how we're going to keep this going.
- And I actually said to Jay Redman, I said, look,
- I don't necessarily see a future for AIDS organizations.
- And I don't.
- I said, I think you're going to have
- to be able to reach out to other members of the community.
- Friends of gay and AIDS people, for health care.
- Offer other types of treatment, drug treatment, or whatever.
- And he started laughing, he said,
- you know, that's exactly what I think.
- So I think you're going to eventually see, probably,
- the word AIDS come out of that company's name.
- That's my prediction.
- That's another-- it'll go out.
- It'll be something health care.
- Because you may not get some straight people
- through the doors, just because it says AIDS Care.
- So why do we have to be stubborn on the issue, right?
- I don't want to be stubborn on the issue.
- Because if we can get a pocket out
- there, and help support the real cause,
- I don't care what we call it.
- That's what I feel.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, you have community health networks.
- TIM TOMPKINS: So I think AIDS organizations
- are going to become a little extinct, too.
- The bottom line, it was always, and always will be,
- an infectious disease.
- And it all started, really--
- that strong infectious disease--
- Dr. Richard Reichman, who now invented Gardasil,
- is a happy multi-millionaire.
- Great guy, but he ran that infectious disease department.
- He was kind of shy.
- Brilliant man.
- But kind of shy.
- Bill Valenti, who is gay, still in the closet,
- was a member of the infectious disease team at Strong.
- And Richard Reichman and Valenti probably didn't really
- get along that well.
- And Valenti started being more of a camera guy,
- because Richard was a little shy.
- And I think it rubbed Richard wrong, a little bit.
- And next thing you know, Valenti was on the street, I
- need money for an AIDS organization.
- And that's how I got that started.
- But really, Valenti was an infectious disease guy
- at Strong.
- And this is how it all happened, right?
- And this is probably where it's going to go back.
- Because for a while, we had to do
- some of our own organizations.
- But again, it's mainstream, accepted.
- Now the infectious disease unit at Strong is right down from--
- I don't know what.
- But it's mainstream hospital, right?
- So I will predict that that will be called something else, soon.
- And it'll have to survive that way.
- Because it won't get the funding to just support AIDS patient.
- And then, how much treatment do AIDS patients need?
- Now people are down to one or two drugs.
- And they can go for six or seven years on one or two drugs.
- So the state may come down and say, guess what?
- Or Blue Cross may say, we're not going to reimburse you
- every three months for tests.
- Make them every six months.
- What's that going to the budget at AIDS Care?
- What do you do with that doctor?
- What do you do with the hematology unit?
- So you're going to have to become more mainstream.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Tim, if you could make one statement
- to young people today who are gay, in terms of advice,
- in terms of how and who they are, what would you say?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Be thankful.
- Be thankful, because this generation
- did so much for them, in terms of AIDS,
- in terms of gay rights.
- And I'm not so sure the young kids really
- have a sense of appreciation for that, maybe, at times.
- I'm amazed by that, because--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: They don't know about it.
- TIM TOMPKINS: They may not know about it.
- They may not care.
- They may be obsessed with Grindr.
- I don't know.
- But I don't really see a sense of appreciation.
- There's a few young gay people--
- well, the ones I know are in their thirties now.
- I don't know twenty-year-old gays anymore, really.
- But some of those thirty-year-olds
- that worked for me in a viral blast
- will say, we appreciate all you did, at times.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But that younger generation coming up now
- doesn't--
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah.
- I don't think it's--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: They haven't had issues, really.
- There's still the bullying issues in school, and that,
- but we all went through that.
- But once they get out of school, and they get out into community
- like, Rochester there's very few issues for them to fight for.
- TIM TOMPKINS: So I would say, be thankful.
- Be appreciative.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And my next question
- is, who should Kevin and I interview.
- besides yourself, for this project?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: We have a whole list of names.
- TIM TOMPKINS: I'm sure.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Just, off the top of your head?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Well, I doubt I'm going to give you
- anybody you don't already have.
- But certainly heroes for me, you, and Chick, and Sue Cowell.
- I really find Sue amazing, because she's
- been all around the circle, several times.
- Whether it was AIDS, or whether it was gay rights,
- or whether it was-- you know?
- And I'm certainly happy to see her in charge
- of the Gay Alliance, now.
- I think it's a great fit for her.
- And I hope that--
- I'm sure it will be till retirement.
- I hope, anyway.
- And this woman is probably one of the kindest, most sincere,
- just totally dedicated to--
- no pay, right?
- She just has done, and done, and done.
- And her and Chick are so involved, initially.
- And certainly, even though Mark Siewic and I
- have had our little tiffs over the years, I think that--
- EVELYN BAILEY: And Dan Meyers.
- TIM TOMPKINS: They played an important role.
- In Meyers is probably one of my closest male, gay friends.
- He is, I guess.
- Maybe him and Ryan Nelson.
- And Dan is-- look at Dan.
- He's president of the Al Sigl Center.
- And he really-- he's on the board, with the bishop.
- And he's really a much more conservative man than I am,
- probably.
- In terms of circles and (unintelligible).
- And he has to appeal to Republicans, conservatives,
- for funding.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well it's funny.
- If you know who Dan is, and you know of the social circles
- that he runs in, you realize he is very much out there.
- But publically, he's not.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah, he's careful.
- He's careful.
- And I think part of it is his job.
- But he teases them, every now and then, with certain things.
- So that's his way of educating them.
- So yeah, Dan has done a lot, too.
- But there's a huge list of people.
- This town has been lucky.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- I think we're not representative of a lot of communities.
- I think we're very fortunate.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Look at Ernie Eaner with the Bachelor Forum.
- Real nice guy.
- Ran his business.
- And just a real--
- a true gentlemen.
- All the time he owned the Forum and I ran the Liberty,
- we never had a cross word with each other, ever.
- And we'd get together and collaborate and some events.
- Just, there's been some really nice people in this town.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well this guy--
- looking back at some of the years,
- and things you've been involved in,
- what's some of your fondest memories?
- Where you had the most fun?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Well I certainly--
- listen, I will never deny that being a nightclub
- owner, a gay nightclub owner, and a straight nightclub
- owner--
- in 1984 and 1985, I really did have the most popular gay club
- outside of New York City.
- And there would be 700 or 800 guys in line, sometimes.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Was this The Liberty?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Yeah.
- Yeah.
- And then I started Idols, which was a straight club.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I remember Idols.
- TIM TOMPKINS: When Jim's went out of business.
- To be a young guy, and own those type of businesses,
- was an immense amount of fun.
- I'm not going to say it wasn't.
- Plus, they were cash cows.
- Sometimes I trick myself to say, don't
- get carried away with yourself.
- Because when you're a nightclub owner,
- people are all over you, at times.
- But I would have to say, clearly,
- being a nightclub owner was a lot of goddamn fun
- for a long time. (laughter)
- EVELYN BAILEY: You still are.
- TIM TOMPKINS: Well, I don't know,
- unfortunately, I can't even stay up past midnight! (laughter)
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So what clubs--
- I know you owned one.
- I know that.
- But what else do you own?
- TIM TOMPKINS: I don't know.
- At one time, I either owned or financed
- or was the landlord for fifteen clubs around here.
- So I had the Z on St. Paul Street.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I remember Z.
- TIM TOMPKINS: I set up Richard [? Caza ?]
- as, first, a lesbian bar, known as Justice.
- And then I did the Pentagon with Mark Siewic, for a while.
- I did Mirage.
- And I don't know, I had a club in Buffalo for a while.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Never went South?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Huh?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Never went South to Florida?
- TIM TOMPKINS: No, no, I don't really like Florida.
- It's not my type of look--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Actually, that was my last question for him.
- Is, why did you choose to stay here?
- What was it about Rochester?
- I know you said, you loved growing up here.
- And you love the community.
- But really, a man of your vision, and fortitude,
- could go anywhere to make it even bigger.
- TIM TOMPKINS: I think it's because of my mother.
- Yeah.
- I actually asked my mother if she would move to somewhere.
- Metropolitan cities.
- But she didn't want to.
- Because she had nieces, and she had
- a grandson and a granddaughter.
- My sister's kids.
- My brother didn't have kids.
- He went out with an older woman, she had already had kids.
- And I didn't have kids, which, if you
- want to ask me what my only regret in life is,
- not having a child.
- I had a couple offers, and if I could go back in time,
- I would have taken up--
- these girls knew I was gay.
- But even back then, it was quite normal, correct?
- They wanted to have my baby.
- And it would have out fine, probably.
- Given what we know, now.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I always ask this question at the end.
- What is it about you that people don't normally
- know about you, that you would like them to know?
- They know you as a businessman, they know you
- as a social person, they know you
- as a community giver, a generous man.
- But what is it about you that, god, you know, I
- wish people knew this about me?
- TIM TOMPKINS: Well I don't know if I wish people knew about me,
- but I think that some people think that I just maybe tripped
- on some success, or whatever.
- But I don't know too many other people that
- probably work as hard as I do.
- Whether it's on a nonprofit cause, or business,
- I'm just a very industrious person.
- if I could get my assistant back here tonight and work
- till 11 o'clock with me, I'd love to have him here.
- It's just the way I am, you know?
- I really am a worker.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Ambitious.
- TIM TOMPKINS: But I don't know if it's even so much ambitious.
- I'm just a worker.
- And I think some people don't really know that about me.
- They think, oh, well, he was smart to make
- those private loans when people weren't doing it.
- Or, oh, he opened a bar at the right time.
- Or he sort of has a knack at taking a property
- and making it look good.
- But I really think people don't realize that maybe I'm
- just such a hard worker.