Audio Interview, Todd Plank, April 6, 2013

EVELYN BAILEY: Today is April 6th.

And we're at the Gay Alliance Library

in the Auditorium Theater.

And I'm sitting here with Todd Plank,

who was originally a worker at the Gay Alliance

many years ago.

And then moved to the pride agenda and Western New York

organizer and did a great deal of work

on the marriage equality bill passing

the legislature in 2011.

But I want to go back a little bit, Todd.

Are you from Rochester originally?

TODD PLANK: From the suburbs, so I

grew up in the area surrounding Rochester,

but I've lived in the city for about twenty years.

EVELYN BAILEY: And when you were growing up,

was there much talk about gays or gay liberation

that you recall?

TODD PLANK: Well, when I was a teenager in Avon,

where I graduated, I didn't hear anything about gay people.

There was a suggestion that someone in our school was gay.

But he was a really good basketball player

and very popular.

And he managed to deal with the rumors, which

were later confirmed.

It was actually Michael Lee, who did a lot of work

around HIV and AIDS here in Rochester

before he passed away.

So he was kind of out, but it was like an open secret,

I think, that wasn't discussed.

And I really didn't have any understanding

for what gay was outside of my religious upbringing, which

said it was an abomination and--

EVELYN BAILEY: A few other things.

TODD PLANK: Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: (Laughs)

TODD PLANK: So you know, that was really my only--

most of my information I got through my church,

about what homosexuality was.

And it was certainly something to be avoided.

EVELYN BAILEY: What catapulted you

into quote, unquote, "gay activism" or into the Alliance?

TODD PLANK: My gateway to the Gay Alliance

was when I came out in my 30s and attended a coming out

workshop at the Gay Alliance on Atlantic Avenue.

And that's where I met Tanya.

And that was the beginning of my relationship with the Gay

Alliance.

And having gone through the workshop,

and then having found community, I

felt like I realized how important that was to me.

And so I wanted to be a part of that.

And so eventually, I designed a coming out workshop of my own

for adults, that was adult focused.

And so I began as a volunteer with the Gay Alliance

initially.

I was a personal life coach so I saw

an opportunity to kind of combine my like coach

skills with the coming out process

and create something that I thought was very holistic.

And through that, during that time,

Jim Versteeg left the Gay Alliance.

And so Chuck Bowen already knew me, and so

offered me a position as the Community Education Outreach

Coordinator.

EVELYN BAILEY: How did you find out about this coming out

workshop that you attended?

TODD PLANK: I imagine it was The Empty Closet.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

TODD PLANK: I was very excited to find The Empty Closet.

And I remember, you know, early on reading it,

like, cover to cover.

EVELYN BAILEY: And once you--

TODD PLANK: And also, I imagine also there

might have been someone who made a referral who

knew about the Gay Alliance.

So probably, it was a combination of The Empty Closet

and someone in the community who pointed me

toward the Gay Alliance.

EVELYN BAILEY: And once you started

working here as a Community Outreach Coordinator--

TODD PLANK: Community Education & Outreach Coordinator,

long title--

and that, at that time was divided between a couple

of different activities.

But I was running the community center,

managing the calendar for the different groups.

And I was kind of a liaison of the community in that sense,

on a grassrootsy kind of level.

And I was writing articles for The Empty Closet.

I was obviously going out and speaking and doing

some education training, tabling to represent the Gay

Alliance at different events.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall any of the educational trainings

you did at that time?

Was it with schools, primarily?

Was it with corporations?

Was it-- I mean--

TODD PLANK: I was trying to look back and remember

what, specifically, I did.

You may know from the archives.

I believe that the Gay Alliance came--

I remember-- oh, I had her name right--

Donna Red Wing.

I remember the Gay Alliance bringing

Donna Red Wing to Rochester.

And I believe that she assisted in the Gay Alliance creating

some kind of best practices for businesses to implement SONDA.

And I know, because I remember Chuck being kind of the public

figurehead and speaking to the press a bit about the work

that we were doing in conjunction with the Sexual

Orientation Nondiscrimination Act being passed.

And I remember being at Bausch and Lomb

for one of those trainings when Donna came up here.

And I did some schools.

I believe I did do some presentations to schools.

But I believe Toby Greenfield, she was then the youth

director, and I think she was spearheading

a lot of what was driven as far as anti-bullying initiatives

and that part of it.

EVELYN BAILEY: In schools?

And didn't Donna work specifically

with Eastman Kodak Company?

And well, I don't know if she worked with management.

She developed a program for shop, floors, for the lines.

TODD PLANK: I know--

my--

EVELYN BAILEY: I'm not being very clear.

TODD PLANK: Right.

I know my partner at that time, Paul Brew

actually worked on the shop floor at Kodak.

And I believe that he provided some feedback

into his experience, because he'd been outed,

and was a blue collar worker at Kodak.

And you know, there was a lot happening with the white collar

group, right, but in terms of translating that down

to implementing it--

I don't want to say factory level,

but you know, on more of a--

operationalizing that among blue collar workers,

it was a different culture.

And so she may very well have done some work with that.

But I can't recall the details.

But I do remember her coming up here several times

and specifically, to work with the Gay Alliance

around this educational piece related to SONDA.

And I'm thinking the big three that we

worked with were Xerox, Bausch and Lomb, and Kodak.

And I remember those being kind of the big three.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

TODD PLANK: And then other interesting opportunities

arose.

I remember doing Peppitoni.

We got a request for a post office

that had someone coming out as trans on the job.

And we were contacted by a post office

to come in and do a training.

So you know, we weren't just--

obviously, we were dealing with the corporations.

But we were also available, on call, as you will,

for any workplace or any school or college that

wanted us to come in and do some education and potentially

some advocacy, too.

In some ways, to direct people who were already

allies in the workplace or in whatever sphere of influence

they had, who realized the need for work to be done,

but didn't know how to approach it or where to start.

And so the Gay Alliance was there to kind of help

outline those preliminary steps that they

could take to work toward an objective of--

at that time, we were talking about making

workplaces safer and tolerance.

It was interesting.

You know, looking back at the past few--

if you think from 2003 to today, ten years later,

how the needle has really moved from,

it's like, it's not OK to tolerate.

I remember saying, it's like, you know,

you tolerate your garbage until it smells too bad.

And then you throw it out.

You know, it's like we needed to move

beyond that to a place of accepting people for who

they are and respecting them.

And ultimately, hoping to get people

to a place of celebration about who we are in our families

and what we contribute in the larger community.

So attaching value to ourselves--

it wasn't OK just to be tolerated.

It's we as human beings had value and deserved

to be recognized for the value we brought,

whether to the workplace or to the community,

wherever we were.

And so I think that was part of our pride,

was really not settling for being tolerated, but--

EVELYN BAILEY: Going beyond that.

TODD PLANK: --pushing further.

Yeah, and it was a process.

Obviously, it was a process.

As people got to know us and understand and appreciate

our differences, as well as what we had in common,

it helped to move that needle.

EVELYN BAILEY: Were you involved with SONDA at all?

TODD PLANK: When I came on board,

SONDA had already been implemented.

EVELYN BAILEY: Or it had passed, anyway.

TODD PLANK: Yes, and I should say yes, it had been passed.

And actually, when it comes to legislation,

what I remember first was in 2003

when the Supreme Court ruled the sodomy laws unconstitutional.

And I remember having an event at the Gay Alliance,

and the news was there.

We had this big map, and we had outlined.

And then there were like the fourteen states

that still had the sodomy laws.

And we were putting stickers on each of those.

And I remember putting the last sticker on the last state

to show that we were no longer criminals, according

to the Supreme Court.

And it's kind of shocking to think

that even at that time there were fourteen states that

still had those laws.

And that was really powerful, because prior to that, I mean,

we could be criminalized.

It's, like--

EVELYN BAILEY: You could be arrested.

TODD PLANK: Yeah, I mean, people lost rights as parents

if they came out, you know?

They become unfit.

There was just so much harm that could

be done in those states that still had the laws.

And then also, even, just the message that sent,

that somehow this is still acceptable.

And it's interesting, because even

I forget which justice it was-- if it was Alito or Scalia,

he even said that that ruling really

opened the gateway to marriage.

Because once you decriminalize these relationships,

ultimately there's no real basis for preventing them

from marrying.

And so it's interesting now, here we're

having the case that's having been brought before the Supreme

Court and looking to see how they're going to rule.

So it's pretty exciting in ten years

to think about not only were we decriminalized in 2003-- now

here in 2013, the Supreme Court is hearing about marriage.

EVELYN BAILEY: Now shortly after SONDA

was passed, after 2003 when the sodomy laws were identified

as unconstitutional, domestic partnership benefits

or domestic partnerships came to the fore.

And there were many, many cities and really

corporations, I think, led the way in that.

And I think labor led the way in some of that,

in getting into contracts the right for people

to take care of each other.

Not sick leave, but death leave, because at that time,

well AIDS had passed.

But there was, I think, earlier, even, Tom Privitere

and I had a conversation now.

I can't remember dates and years.

But domestic partnerships came to the fore.

And the City of Rochester was the first,

I think, in this area to pass domestic partnership benefits.

TODD PLANK: I honestly can't remember if we were the first.

But I remember there being a lot of conversation

about domestic partnerships.

And in terms of advancing equality in the workplace, that

was one of the big things that was promoted

was equality in the workplace means equal benefits

to the full degree the law allows.

And so that became a litmus test early on for companies in terms

of what are the benchmarks.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

TODD PLANK: And I can't recall when HRC came out

with its corporate equality index,

but I know that that also was a really useful tool.

EVELYN BAILEY: In and around that

time, because it's been around for quite a while.

TODD PLANK: Because it was really

helpful then to see where different companies were.

And I'm sure if we looked at a comparison between 2003,

where they were.

Now, really, the litmus test is transgender rights

and protections in the workplace.

I mean, that's how far we've come

in terms of LGBT issues in the workplace,

that that is now kind of--

do you want to get a 100%, you've

got to have done your work on that for those employees.

EVELYN BAILEY: When did Pride in The Workplace and Pride

in The Pulpit, and there was one other--

Pride in Labor?

TODD PLANK: It was Pride in My Union.

EVELYN BAILEY: In My Union?

TODD PLANK: Right, Pride in The Pulpit,

and Pride in The Workplace.

EVELYN BAILEY: And was that when you were Western New York

regional coordinator?

TODD PLANK: Yes.

Though I believe those pride programs already

existed or were in the process of being

formed when I came on board.

And that was the pride agenda's three pronged approach,

to advance equality and reach out to these groups

that we know have power, and that

also have tentacles that reach out

into communities, far reaching.

And so working with people of faith

and religious organizations that were supportive,

or that we could potentially get in and educate and bring along

their journey to a place of fuller inclusion,

and hopefully, compelling them, as they heard our stories

and understood the issues, to want to take some action.

And then Pride in The Workplace--

with the pride agenda, I think that was working more

at higher levels in terms of corporations and businesses

to get in and talk to the players, if you will,

the higher level people.

And then get that to translate down into their policies

and practices, and provide guidelines for doing that,

giving businesses the tools they need

to navigate what sometimes could be

a confusing process for them.

When you talk about the practical realities

like domestic partnerships, and there's issues around,

because of state law and DOMA, how

that affected how they could go about trying to rectify

the disparities, there are all kinds of implications

legally with that that had to be addressed.

And then, just also the whole culture change process,

and how do you approach that in a way that

will be successful and anticipate the resistance

you may face?

So you can kind of look ahead and address

some of those things early on to smooth out

the path for everybody.

And then, with Pride in My Union,

I know Desma Holcomb had a lot of experience

with unions before coming onto the pride agenda.

And so that was an area of focus for her,

understanding the power of unions and the tradition,

as far as social justice and equality and civil rights

movements, that unions had played a significant role

in tapping into that.

Especially when it came to going to Albany,

because people in unions were used to exerting their muscle.

And those folks already had learned how to organize,

and also they were cohesive groups, where

you can mobilize a lot of people if you could make your case,

and they embrace the issue.

And so I know unions were important,

along with people of faith who also really

turned out for many of the rallies that we had in Albany.

I think locally, especially, we had

so many faith-based organizations

that championed this issue, and faith leaders

who were open about it, writing letters to the editor

and speaking to the media and going to Albany.

It was exceptional, I feel, in Rochester,

for a city of our size to have the level of support

that we had from the faith community.

I wasn't as involved with the unions.

But I know Bess Watts, she's certainly--

and Tom Privitere and people who are involved

in unions themselves can speak more

to that in terms of the process of bringing

the unions on and getting them to step up and step out.

But I remember attending some meetings

and doing some presentations to some union

people in the Rochester area.

EVELYN BAILEY: Who were your clients?

Who were your people that you worked

with in different groups?

Do you recall?

TODD PLANK: As an organizer?

EVELYN BAILEY: As an organizer.

TODD PLANK: Well, I mean, a big part of what--

I was intended to be a grassroots organizer.

So initially, it was creating a cohesive group

of people who we could mobilize, whether it was doing phone bank

and getting out to collect letters or signatures,

to do outreach at public events.

And I worked, and I was responsible for Buffalo,

as well.

So I was working to create these cohesive groups that

could grow.

And I remember initially we had what we called

marriage ambassador trainings.

And that was kind of the beginning

of drawing in people who we could train as activists.

Give them the skills to know how to conduct

a meeting with your legislator, how to have conversations

with people about these issues, and identify those folks

who were passionate about the issue

and wanted to do something, and then also, through them,

reach out to additional people.

And then I developed projects on a local scale

to keep folks engaged.

And then, of course, there were the big poll

pushes for the lobby days, the annual lobby

days in the spring every year to get to Albany.

But one project I was really proud of--

it was a photo project called Equal Measure Portraits

of Love.

And I was going back through my email

and found one that was, like, the unveiling of this.

And basically, they were these beautiful portraits

of families and allies.

We had Jamie and Sally Whitbeck, who was a straight couple.

I remember we had ministers who were straight.

And then many different-- you know, we had families with dads

with adopted children, we had interracial couples.

I know we worked really hard to get a diverse mix of folks

in both Buffalo and Rochester.

Because we felt we need to humanize the issue.

We need to personalize it in a way

that these are people in your community

who are being denied rights.

And this is the effect on their family.

And this is what it would mean if they had marriage.

So it was a great way for a person

to just go up and kind of absorb the picture,

and then read the narrative, and think about it.

That they weren't being challenged.

They weren't being talked at.

It was just an opportunity for them

to read and contemplate and think

about it in a non-threatening environment.

And the exhibit opened at Equal Grounds.

If I'm correct, it was back in 2009.

EVELYN BAILEY: Was this your idea?

TODD PLANK: I borrowed it.

I learned about it from--

there were other projects that I learned about.

Initially, what really inspired me

was I'd gone to Buffalo for an exhibit called

Deviant Bodies that was about transgender people.

And they were these huge portraits and then

the accompanying narrative.

And it was so powerful to see these.

I'd never seen an exhibit of this scale in Buffalo, I mean,

anywhere.

And then it was really just--

I thought-- I was so moved.

And I thought this is a powerful way

to reach people, through these photos and these stories,

you know?

And I thought, wow, we could--

and then the Pride Agenda talked about doing something

on kind of a simpler scale.

But I thought I wanted to do something

that was more professional.

I got professional photographers and got Eastman Kodak

to print out everything, which would have been a huge cost.

So huge kudos to Eastman Kodak for printing out

all those photos.

And then, having them mounted, and then, having them on

display at coffee houses and churches,

wherever we could get an invitation.

Because then people heard about the project.

They're like, oh, when can we get it?

When can we have it?

When can we display it?

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

TODD PLANK: And so it took on a life of its own.

And then there was also, with the internet,

there was a way for us, for the pride agenda

to get people to put their stories online.

And we could encourage folks to create their own scrapbooks

as communities, they could bring to Albany.

But I really felt this was something special

that we created here in Rochester

in terms of the scale.

And fortunately, we had the resources

to be able to put something like that on.

And I was just really proud of that exhibit and the families

that were willing to make themselves visible in that way,

and put themselves out there.

EVELYN BAILEY: Speak-- talk to me a little bit

about the fear in 2009, 10, 11, even today,

there are people who are afraid to come out.

Afraid to identify themselves as LGBT or gender identified

as male or female, because they're

looked upon differently.

But what is it that continues to present fear to people?

I mean, here we have a world that's

moved a long way in terms of quote, unquote "tolerance,"

a world that has accepted legalization of certain laws

and activities and implemented SONDA, implemented

domestic partnership benefits.

We don't have marriage yet, back then, why the fear?

TODD PLANK: I think there are good reasons for people

still to be fearful.

It's very contextual in terms of your life history, the stigma

that may be attached to this because of your ethnicity

and the culture you grew up in or your religious background.

And when we talk about SONDA, it's

great if you're in a big corporation where there's

measures of accountability built in

and a safe person to go to that to talk about discrimination.

But I remember in one of my coming

out workshops, a young man who worked in a garage, you know?

And the coworkers figured out that he was gay,

and he got harassed for it by his coworkers.

And it was a small business.

There was no one to really go to.

And so I think that's the challenge,

is it's great to have the law, but it comes down

to implementation of that.

And then we talked about corporations--

they were an easier place to start because they

had HR departments.

And they had, at that time, you know, they were already talking

about diversity and inclusion.

So it was kind of easy to bring in LGBT under that umbrella

and help them to see, oh, this is just

part of a continuation of the work we've been doing,

because Kodak had already had to deal with its issues

around race and discriminatory practices that

had been going on.

So when we talk about smaller businesses

and being able to make the case that you've been discriminated

against, people may not have the time or the resources.

And then, it's a lot of work to document all of that

and prove that, and is anyone else

going to back up your story.

So I think depending where you--

there are many people who are still

vulnerable in terms of the lack of a safety net for coming out.

And I mean, the most important thing, I think,

when we think about the progress of the movement,

it really has been about people coming out and telling

their stories and humanizing the issue.

And not just LGBT people, but straight people

who have friends or family or people

they care about who are LGBT.

And others who, like the Whitbecks,

didn't have anyone in their family, but they had neighbors.

They learned about the issue, and they

became passionate about it because it

was a social injustice.

So you had folks who already had a tradition of being engaged

in this work, and for whatever reason,

latched on to this issue and felt compelled to take action.

But I think even with students in schools, you know,

some schools do a better job than others in terms

of creating a safe environment.

And I feel like it's almost a lottery in many ways,

in terms of how your circumstances-- how

fortunate are you in terms of, do you have enough privilege

to kind of protect you?

You know, if you're in a more affluent school system

and they have more resources and they have an intentional plan

to address bullying, as opposed to a school that

may not have those resources.

Or, like I talked about, family, history, culture.

All of that plays into folk's self-perception

of if it is OK for me to be gay?

I mean, we're making progress.

But there's still a lot of stereotypes

out there in the media that don't fit people's experience.

And even locally, I still think we

are challenged when we talk about communities of color

and having local leaders or representation.

In my work, we endeavor to reach out to communities of color.

But still, you know, I think partly

because of the history in Rochester,

there was still kind of a polarization that I witnessed,

that it was largely white people on the buses, predominantly.

And maybe that's because they could

afford to take time off work.

Or maybe because marriage was more of a relevant issue.

Whereas for other people of lower incomes who

were facing just everyday survival issues,

like that was a luxury item.

That was just kind of pie in the sky

to think about marriage when I'm just

trying to get by day to day and deal with my basic needs.

And for folks who were low income, white

or people of color, I'm not implying

that it's just people of color.

I mean, doing day to day survival,

it's, like, this may resonate with you on some level.

But it's that there's some other things that are higher

priorities for me right now.

And so in some ways, we didn't draw those people

into the movement.

They were still kind of--

I still feel like there's a whole group of folks--

what's on my mind now, having gone back to college,

and there was definitely a big sort of a large, social justice

bent to my education in Brockport in social work

is like classism.

And classism in our community, there's

still a huge rift, which also-- it

parallels the rift between, I think, people of color

and white people in our community.

It kind of mirrors the larger community, right?

And I still think there's a lot of work

to be done to bridge those gaps that exist.

Because working on the Pride Agenda,

I was kind of permeable.

I was attending events with wealthy people,

successful people who had good careers

and affluent lifestyles, and were making

generous donations to fund the work that the pride agenda was

doing.

And that was important.

But then I also was working with people

on more of a grassrootsy level.

And working with people-- really just were barely getting by.

So I saw kind of this whole continuum of folks.

But they didn't often meet in the same place.

I don't mean to get off on a tangent,

but I just feel like racism and classism,

and we can talk about ageism, which

we know is an issue, still all these isms that

are going on in our community that need to be looked at.

Because we've been focused, more issue focused, you know?

Marriage, bullying, and now GENDA,

and kind of looking at policy, and that's important.

But I think, for me, in the back of my mind

and whatever the work I was doing, I was thinking

but how can we build community?

Like, that was, to me, ultimately the bigger picture

to move forward is who's missing at the table?

Who are we not reaching out to and why?

And what do we need to do so that we can allow

for other voices to be heard and to invite other people to table

in a way that's respectful, that folks

feel dignified to comment and talk

with us about why they care about this issue,

or about why that's not their issue.

But at least a starting place.

And so I think because there was such a focus on policy,

there wasn't as much focus on--

that was community building, but to an end.

And for me, community building was the end in many ways,

because it was going to extend beyond all

these other achievements that we were going to have.

These things were going to happen,

it was just a matter of when.

And that's where I think the Gay Alliance was so important

and why it spoke to me and still does.

For me, it was about community building.

Because you know, Atlantic Avenue, we had the space,

and all these organizations would come and meet there.

In some ways, we lost a part of that when we moved over here.

Because it was just a different vibe, a different feeling.

And that was difficult for me to see,

because I was really invested in kind of the community model.

And I understand the reasons for moving here.

Our youth group had gotten so big,

you know, the building just wasn't serviceable.

We needed a larger space.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

TODD PLANK: And you know, the decision was made to move here.

And certainly, we've made good use of these large spaces.

They're important for us.

EVELYN BAILEY: I think what you're reflecting is really

pretty accurate.

In my conversations with African-American members

of our community who have made contributions and been a part

of our history--

Barbara Turner, Alyssa Matthews, Diane Conway, Ernest Dubois,

Stan Burd--

when I asked them the question, which

is more difficult for you, to be an African-American

or to be a gay person?

It's always African-American.

Because you cannot hide.

They cannot hide who they are.

They're black.

It's out there.

And that's the first thing people see.

Being gay, being a lesbian is hidden.

I mean, unless you wear a sign or--

TODD PLANK: Well, you have a choice whether or not

to disclose that information.

Most people do.

EVELYN BAILEY: But being African-American,

you don't have a choice.

TODD PLANK: Right.

EVELYN BAILEY: And many, actually all, said being gay

was the least of their problems.

TODD PLANK: Right.

EVELYN BAILEY: And it's interesting,

because I would like to believe that attitudes have changed.

I would like to believe that we have grown as a society where

we cannot just tolerate difference,

but embrace difference.

TODD PLANK: Right.

EVELYN BAILEY: But I really don't think we have.

TODD PLANK: Well, I think our culture, our community,

reflects the same challenges that the country faces when

we talk about these issues.

We're not so different at the end of the day.

And there's a sad irony in that, because we always

tend to think that folks who have

had to deal with oppression are going to be--

have a heightened sensitivity to not just

their own personal experience of oppression,

but other people's experiences, which

may not be about being gay, but like you

said, being African-American or whatever, you know?

But it doesn't necessarily translate.

EVELYN BAILEY: So where for you in your organization--

what were the greatest challenges

in terms of getting people involved,

getting that grass roots effort to be cohesive

and to build community?

TODD PLANK: Mm hm.

Well, it took a lot of energy and persistence in terms of--

we would have, as an organizer, the marriage ambassador program

was designed to bring people in and educate and train.

And then, like I said, create cohesiveness.

We had monthly meetings that were conference calls

from Albany and New York that people

were invited to phone into.

So to make people feel, to help folks recognize on a grassroots

level, whether in Buffalo or Syracuse, wherever,

that you are the movement.

It's like you are the marriage movement.

You are the anti-bullying movement.

You are the GENDA movement.

It's, like, the Pride Agenda is there

to fight skills and tools, and yes,

we have an office in Albany, and we

have people who are there to influence legislators.

But it's your being out there in your everyday life

telling your story, educating people in your community,

reaching out to build that--

reach that tipping point, if you will,

in terms of getting enough people to care about the issue

and do something about it.

And ultimately, the aim was to press legislators, right?

To keep them hearing from their constituents about this issue

so they realize they can no longer brush it off or ignore

it, that there was going to be some accountability

for the action they took on this issue.

Which is why when the first vote came up in 2007--

I have a note here.

It was June 19th of 2007 when the Marriage Equality

bill passed the New York state assembly in a bipartisan vote

of 85 to 61.

There were 81 Democrats and 4 Republicans.

And I'll read a little bit from this.

This was, actually, one of the columns

I wrote for The Empty Closet was State of the Union.

It was one of my series.

I also had one, Family Matters, that

talked about the importance of family, our families.

So I'll just read this.

"We squelched the skeptics on June 19 of 2007,

when the Marriage Equality bill passed through the New York

State Assembly in a bipartisan vote of 85 to 61.

Although it may have appeared that former New York state

governor Spitzer's bill was an overnight sensation,

the reality is that a lot of persistent, intentional

outreach was done to move individual assembly

members along on this issue.

Elected officials heard from affirming clergy,

union representatives, and employees

who work for progressive companies that

serve as a model for what our New York state government can

do to protect its LGBT residents.

Through a combination of community forums and town hall

meetings, protest rallies, in district visits, phone calls,

traveling LGBT family photo exhibits, a statewide marriage

equality letter campaign, and the presence

of over 1,000 marriage equality activists at the Pride Agenda's

annual lobby day, Equality and Justice Day,

a majority of New York state assembly members

were moved by their constituents to vote yes

for marriage equality.

And, in June of 2008, voted overwhelmingly

in support of GENDA in a bipartisan vote of 108 to 34."

And then I went on to say, "now that we

have a Democratic majority in the Senate,

we must repeat the same process to secure the necessary votes

to win marriage.

As with the assembly, we must reach out

to both Democrats and Republicans

to get the required number of votes."

And at that time, I said our lucky number is 13.

"Statewide, we must move thirteen senators

to commit to giving us their vote for marriage equality

to pass the bill by a safe margin.

And to pass GENDA, we need to garner only an additional four

votes to reach our goal of 34 confirmed supporters

in the New York State Senate."

And I went on to say, "Dignity for All Students

is the easiest legislative lift and should

require a modicum of effort to get to the governor's desk."

So that kind of provides a picture

of what was happening at that time, when

we were able to swing to get a democratic majority,

thin as it was.

EVELYN BAILEY: Who were the most difficult people to see?

Who are the most difficult group of people to see the value,

to see the need, to see that this was not

only important, but necessary?

TODD PLANK: Oh I guess you have to think

about that on different levels.

I'm thinking, locally, about the Monroe County legislature.

And you know, Ann Tischer was a great driver

of our local efforts to have people there

to speak before the Monroe County leg.

And I remember also having smaller meetings

with the leaders of the Monroe County leg

and trying to get them on board with the issue.

EVELYN BAILEY: They still have not--

TODD PLANK: Exactly!

And also the frustration with the Democrat and Chronicle,

and you know trying to get--

they wouldn't even grant meetings

with their editorial board.

And just the biases that they continue to--

stereotypes that they continue to put out every year at Pride.

And even recently, just in this past month,

Anne Tischer and Emily Jones, and I forget

who the third person was--

whether it was Debra Yue or someone else--

met with the editorial board.

And they just didn't get it.

Ann was saying, they're asking questions

that we would have expected back in 2005, six?

You know, like the last decade, maybe, but not now.

It's like they haven't moved forward on this issue.

They're still thinking, questioning,

whether it's OK to be gay.

And it's, like, are you not paying

attention to what's happening around this country

and around the world?

Where have you been?

And just the fact that so much amazing work

has happened right here in Rochester around this issue,

and they're still like--

they basically have their heads in the sand about it.

So that's been a source of frustration.

I mean, we made great progress.

I remember when Bill Pritcher was on the City Council,

they came out with a unanimous statement

in support of marriage equality.

And that was a really proud moment.

And I'm very grateful for the work

that Bill Pritcher did when he was here.

EVELYN BAILEY: And Mayor Duffy, when he was mayor,

pushed it at the--

TODD PLANK: Absolutely.

I mean, yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: --Mayors' meeting,

national mayors' meeting.

TODD PLANK: Yes, which was fantastic.

So I mean, it's great to see how Rochester actually influenced,

in some ways, the whole country with the work we were doing.

You know, the Ann Tischer signs.

I mean, I think they're probably in all 52 states.

You know, they're everywhere.

Or like the picture of me that showed up again

from the lobby day in 2011.

And that went viral all over the country.

And it was about the sign it was holding, not about me.

I just happened to be the person holding the sign.

I was the prop.

The sign was the story.

It's about love.

But that resonated so powerfully.

You know, we got that message out,

and that picture was circulated all over the country

and beyond.

So Rochester has every right to be

very proud in Western New York.

Because when it came to the marriage vote,

the key votes were Senator Alesi and-- oh,

I can't believe his name won't come to me--