Audio Interview, Todd Plank, April 6, 2013

  • EVELYN BAILEY: Today is April 6th.
  • And we're at the Gay Alliance Library
  • in the Auditorium Theater.
  • And I'm sitting here with Todd Plank,
  • who was originally a worker at the Gay Alliance
  • many years ago.
  • And then moved to the pride agenda and Western New York
  • organizer and did a great deal of work
  • on the marriage equality bill passing
  • the legislature in 2011.
  • But I want to go back a little bit, Todd.
  • Are you from Rochester originally?
  • TODD PLANK: From the suburbs, so I
  • grew up in the area surrounding Rochester,
  • but I've lived in the city for about twenty years.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And when you were growing up,
  • was there much talk about gays or gay liberation
  • that you recall?
  • TODD PLANK: Well, when I was a teenager in Avon,
  • where I graduated, I didn't hear anything about gay people.
  • There was a suggestion that someone in our school was gay.
  • But he was a really good basketball player
  • and very popular.
  • And he managed to deal with the rumors, which
  • were later confirmed.
  • It was actually Michael Lee, who did a lot of work
  • around HIV and AIDS here in Rochester
  • before he passed away.
  • So he was kind of out, but it was like an open secret,
  • I think, that wasn't discussed.
  • And I really didn't have any understanding
  • for what gay was outside of my religious upbringing, which
  • said it was an abomination and--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: A few other things.
  • TODD PLANK: Yeah.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: (Laughs)
  • TODD PLANK: So you know, that was really my only--
  • most of my information I got through my church,
  • about what homosexuality was.
  • And it was certainly something to be avoided.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What catapulted you
  • into quote, unquote, "gay activism" or into the Alliance?
  • TODD PLANK: My gateway to the Gay Alliance
  • was when I came out in my 30s and attended a coming out
  • workshop at the Gay Alliance on Atlantic Avenue.
  • And that's where I met Tanya.
  • And that was the beginning of my relationship with the Gay
  • Alliance.
  • And having gone through the workshop,
  • and then having found community, I
  • felt like I realized how important that was to me.
  • And so I wanted to be a part of that.
  • And so eventually, I designed a coming out workshop of my own
  • for adults, that was adult focused.
  • And so I began as a volunteer with the Gay Alliance
  • initially.
  • I was a personal life coach so I saw
  • an opportunity to kind of combine my like coach
  • skills with the coming out process
  • and create something that I thought was very holistic.
  • And through that, during that time,
  • Jim Versteeg left the Gay Alliance.
  • And so Chuck Bowen already knew me, and so
  • offered me a position as the Community Education Outreach
  • Coordinator.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: How did you find out about this coming out
  • workshop that you attended?
  • TODD PLANK: I imagine it was The Empty Closet.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
  • TODD PLANK: I was very excited to find The Empty Closet.
  • And I remember, you know, early on reading it,
  • like, cover to cover.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And once you--
  • TODD PLANK: And also, I imagine also there
  • might have been someone who made a referral who
  • knew about the Gay Alliance.
  • So probably, it was a combination of The Empty Closet
  • and someone in the community who pointed me
  • toward the Gay Alliance.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And once you started
  • working here as a Community Outreach Coordinator--
  • TODD PLANK: Community Education & Outreach Coordinator,
  • long title--
  • and that, at that time was divided between a couple
  • of different activities.
  • But I was running the community center,
  • managing the calendar for the different groups.
  • And I was kind of a liaison of the community in that sense,
  • on a grassrootsy kind of level.
  • And I was writing articles for The Empty Closet.
  • I was obviously going out and speaking and doing
  • some education training, tabling to represent the Gay
  • Alliance at different events.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall any of the educational trainings
  • you did at that time?
  • Was it with schools, primarily?
  • Was it with corporations?
  • Was it-- I mean--
  • TODD PLANK: I was trying to look back and remember
  • what, specifically, I did.
  • You may know from the archives.
  • I believe that the Gay Alliance came--
  • I remember-- oh, I had her name right--
  • Donna Red Wing.
  • I remember the Gay Alliance bringing
  • Donna Red Wing to Rochester.
  • And I believe that she assisted in the Gay Alliance creating
  • some kind of best practices for businesses to implement SONDA.
  • And I know, because I remember Chuck being kind of the public
  • figurehead and speaking to the press a bit about the work
  • that we were doing in conjunction with the Sexual
  • Orientation Nondiscrimination Act being passed.
  • And I remember being at Bausch and Lomb
  • for one of those trainings when Donna came up here.
  • And I did some schools.
  • I believe I did do some presentations to schools.
  • But I believe Toby Greenfield, she was then the youth
  • director, and I think she was spearheading
  • a lot of what was driven as far as anti-bullying initiatives
  • and that part of it.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: In schools?
  • And didn't Donna work specifically
  • with Eastman Kodak Company?
  • And well, I don't know if she worked with management.
  • She developed a program for shop, floors, for the lines.
  • TODD PLANK: I know--
  • my--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I'm not being very clear.
  • TODD PLANK: Right.
  • I know my partner at that time, Paul Brew
  • actually worked on the shop floor at Kodak.
  • And I believe that he provided some feedback
  • into his experience, because he'd been outed,
  • and was a blue collar worker at Kodak.
  • And you know, there was a lot happening with the white collar
  • group, right, but in terms of translating that down
  • to implementing it--
  • I don't want to say factory level,
  • but you know, on more of a--
  • operationalizing that among blue collar workers,
  • it was a different culture.
  • And so she may very well have done some work with that.
  • But I can't recall the details.
  • But I do remember her coming up here several times
  • and specifically, to work with the Gay Alliance
  • around this educational piece related to SONDA.
  • And I'm thinking the big three that we
  • worked with were Xerox, Bausch and Lomb, and Kodak.
  • And I remember those being kind of the big three.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • TODD PLANK: And then other interesting opportunities
  • arose.
  • I remember doing Peppitoni.
  • We got a request for a post office
  • that had someone coming out as trans on the job.
  • And we were contacted by a post office
  • to come in and do a training.
  • So you know, we weren't just--
  • obviously, we were dealing with the corporations.
  • But we were also available, on call, as you will,
  • for any workplace or any school or college that
  • wanted us to come in and do some education and potentially
  • some advocacy, too.
  • In some ways, to direct people who were already
  • allies in the workplace or in whatever sphere of influence
  • they had, who realized the need for work to be done,
  • but didn't know how to approach it or where to start.
  • And so the Gay Alliance was there to kind of help
  • outline those preliminary steps that they
  • could take to work toward an objective of--
  • at that time, we were talking about making
  • workplaces safer and tolerance.
  • It was interesting.
  • You know, looking back at the past few--
  • if you think from 2003 to today, ten years later,
  • how the needle has really moved from,
  • it's like, it's not OK to tolerate.
  • I remember saying, it's like, you know,
  • you tolerate your garbage until it smells too bad.
  • And then you throw it out.
  • You know, it's like we needed to move
  • beyond that to a place of accepting people for who
  • they are and respecting them.
  • And ultimately, hoping to get people
  • to a place of celebration about who we are in our families
  • and what we contribute in the larger community.
  • So attaching value to ourselves--
  • it wasn't OK just to be tolerated.
  • It's we as human beings had value and deserved
  • to be recognized for the value we brought,
  • whether to the workplace or to the community,
  • wherever we were.
  • And so I think that was part of our pride,
  • was really not settling for being tolerated, but--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Going beyond that.
  • TODD PLANK: --pushing further.
  • Yeah, and it was a process.
  • Obviously, it was a process.
  • As people got to know us and understand and appreciate
  • our differences, as well as what we had in common,
  • it helped to move that needle.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Were you involved with SONDA at all?
  • TODD PLANK: When I came on board,
  • SONDA had already been implemented.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Or it had passed, anyway.
  • TODD PLANK: Yes, and I should say yes, it had been passed.
  • And actually, when it comes to legislation,
  • what I remember first was in 2003
  • when the Supreme Court ruled the sodomy laws unconstitutional.
  • And I remember having an event at the Gay Alliance,
  • and the news was there.
  • We had this big map, and we had outlined.
  • And then there were like the fourteen states
  • that still had the sodomy laws.
  • And we were putting stickers on each of those.
  • And I remember putting the last sticker on the last state
  • to show that we were no longer criminals, according
  • to the Supreme Court.
  • And it's kind of shocking to think
  • that even at that time there were fourteen states that
  • still had those laws.
  • And that was really powerful, because prior to that, I mean,
  • we could be criminalized.
  • It's, like--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You could be arrested.
  • TODD PLANK: Yeah, I mean, people lost rights as parents
  • if they came out, you know?
  • They become unfit.
  • There was just so much harm that could
  • be done in those states that still had the laws.
  • And then also, even, just the message that sent,
  • that somehow this is still acceptable.
  • And it's interesting, because even
  • I forget which justice it was-- if it was Alito or Scalia,
  • he even said that that ruling really
  • opened the gateway to marriage.
  • Because once you decriminalize these relationships,
  • ultimately there's no real basis for preventing them
  • from marrying.
  • And so it's interesting now, here we're
  • having the case that's having been brought before the Supreme
  • Court and looking to see how they're going to rule.
  • So it's pretty exciting in ten years
  • to think about not only were we decriminalized in 2003-- now
  • here in 2013, the Supreme Court is hearing about marriage.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now shortly after SONDA
  • was passed, after 2003 when the sodomy laws were identified
  • as unconstitutional, domestic partnership benefits
  • or domestic partnerships came to the fore.
  • And there were many, many cities and really
  • corporations, I think, led the way in that.
  • And I think labor led the way in some of that,
  • in getting into contracts the right for people
  • to take care of each other.
  • Not sick leave, but death leave, because at that time,
  • well AIDS had passed.
  • But there was, I think, earlier, even, Tom Privitere
  • and I had a conversation now.
  • I can't remember dates and years.
  • But domestic partnerships came to the fore.
  • And the City of Rochester was the first,
  • I think, in this area to pass domestic partnership benefits.
  • TODD PLANK: I honestly can't remember if we were the first.
  • But I remember there being a lot of conversation
  • about domestic partnerships.
  • And in terms of advancing equality in the workplace, that
  • was one of the big things that was promoted
  • was equality in the workplace means equal benefits
  • to the full degree the law allows.
  • And so that became a litmus test early on for companies in terms
  • of what are the benchmarks.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • TODD PLANK: And I can't recall when HRC came out
  • with its corporate equality index,
  • but I know that that also was a really useful tool.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: In and around that
  • time, because it's been around for quite a while.
  • TODD PLANK: Because it was really
  • helpful then to see where different companies were.
  • And I'm sure if we looked at a comparison between 2003,
  • where they were.
  • Now, really, the litmus test is transgender rights
  • and protections in the workplace.
  • I mean, that's how far we've come
  • in terms of LGBT issues in the workplace,
  • that that is now kind of--
  • do you want to get a 100%, you've
  • got to have done your work on that for those employees.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: When did Pride in The Workplace and Pride
  • in The Pulpit, and there was one other--
  • Pride in Labor?
  • TODD PLANK: It was Pride in My Union.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: In My Union?
  • TODD PLANK: Right, Pride in The Pulpit,
  • and Pride in The Workplace.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And was that when you were Western New York
  • regional coordinator?
  • TODD PLANK: Yes.
  • Though I believe those pride programs already
  • existed or were in the process of being
  • formed when I came on board.
  • And that was the pride agenda's three pronged approach,
  • to advance equality and reach out to these groups
  • that we know have power, and that
  • also have tentacles that reach out
  • into communities, far reaching.
  • And so working with people of faith
  • and religious organizations that were supportive,
  • or that we could potentially get in and educate and bring along
  • their journey to a place of fuller inclusion,
  • and hopefully, compelling them, as they heard our stories
  • and understood the issues, to want to take some action.
  • And then Pride in The Workplace--
  • with the pride agenda, I think that was working more
  • at higher levels in terms of corporations and businesses
  • to get in and talk to the players, if you will,
  • the higher level people.
  • And then get that to translate down into their policies
  • and practices, and provide guidelines for doing that,
  • giving businesses the tools they need
  • to navigate what sometimes could be
  • a confusing process for them.
  • When you talk about the practical realities
  • like domestic partnerships, and there's issues around,
  • because of state law and DOMA, how
  • that affected how they could go about trying to rectify
  • the disparities, there are all kinds of implications
  • legally with that that had to be addressed.
  • And then, just also the whole culture change process,
  • and how do you approach that in a way that
  • will be successful and anticipate the resistance
  • you may face?
  • So you can kind of look ahead and address
  • some of those things early on to smooth out
  • the path for everybody.
  • And then, with Pride in My Union,
  • I know Desma Holcomb had a lot of experience
  • with unions before coming onto the pride agenda.
  • And so that was an area of focus for her,
  • understanding the power of unions and the tradition,
  • as far as social justice and equality and civil rights
  • movements, that unions had played a significant role
  • in tapping into that.
  • Especially when it came to going to Albany,
  • because people in unions were used to exerting their muscle.
  • And those folks already had learned how to organize,
  • and also they were cohesive groups, where
  • you can mobilize a lot of people if you could make your case,
  • and they embrace the issue.
  • And so I know unions were important,
  • along with people of faith who also really
  • turned out for many of the rallies that we had in Albany.
  • I think locally, especially, we had
  • so many faith-based organizations
  • that championed this issue, and faith leaders
  • who were open about it, writing letters to the editor
  • and speaking to the media and going to Albany.
  • It was exceptional, I feel, in Rochester,
  • for a city of our size to have the level of support
  • that we had from the faith community.
  • I wasn't as involved with the unions.
  • But I know Bess Watts, she's certainly--
  • and Tom Privitere and people who are involved
  • in unions themselves can speak more
  • to that in terms of the process of bringing
  • the unions on and getting them to step up and step out.
  • But I remember attending some meetings
  • and doing some presentations to some union
  • people in the Rochester area.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Who were your clients?
  • Who were your people that you worked
  • with in different groups?
  • Do you recall?
  • TODD PLANK: As an organizer?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: As an organizer.
  • TODD PLANK: Well, I mean, a big part of what--
  • I was intended to be a grassroots organizer.
  • So initially, it was creating a cohesive group
  • of people who we could mobilize, whether it was doing phone bank
  • and getting out to collect letters or signatures,
  • to do outreach at public events.
  • And I worked, and I was responsible for Buffalo,
  • as well.
  • So I was working to create these cohesive groups that
  • could grow.
  • And I remember initially we had what we called
  • marriage ambassador trainings.
  • And that was kind of the beginning
  • of drawing in people who we could train as activists.
  • Give them the skills to know how to conduct
  • a meeting with your legislator, how to have conversations
  • with people about these issues, and identify those folks
  • who were passionate about the issue
  • and wanted to do something, and then also, through them,
  • reach out to additional people.
  • And then I developed projects on a local scale
  • to keep folks engaged.
  • And then, of course, there were the big poll
  • pushes for the lobby days, the annual lobby
  • days in the spring every year to get to Albany.
  • But one project I was really proud of--
  • it was a photo project called Equal Measure Portraits
  • of Love.
  • And I was going back through my email
  • and found one that was, like, the unveiling of this.
  • And basically, they were these beautiful portraits
  • of families and allies.
  • We had Jamie and Sally Whitbeck, who was a straight couple.
  • I remember we had ministers who were straight.
  • And then many different-- you know, we had families with dads
  • with adopted children, we had interracial couples.
  • I know we worked really hard to get a diverse mix of folks
  • in both Buffalo and Rochester.
  • Because we felt we need to humanize the issue.
  • We need to personalize it in a way
  • that these are people in your community
  • who are being denied rights.
  • And this is the effect on their family.
  • And this is what it would mean if they had marriage.
  • So it was a great way for a person
  • to just go up and kind of absorb the picture,
  • and then read the narrative, and think about it.
  • That they weren't being challenged.
  • They weren't being talked at.
  • It was just an opportunity for them
  • to read and contemplate and think
  • about it in a non-threatening environment.
  • And the exhibit opened at Equal Grounds.
  • If I'm correct, it was back in 2009.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Was this your idea?
  • TODD PLANK: I borrowed it.
  • I learned about it from--
  • there were other projects that I learned about.
  • Initially, what really inspired me
  • was I'd gone to Buffalo for an exhibit called
  • Deviant Bodies that was about transgender people.
  • And they were these huge portraits and then
  • the accompanying narrative.
  • And it was so powerful to see these.
  • I'd never seen an exhibit of this scale in Buffalo, I mean,
  • anywhere.
  • And then it was really just--
  • I thought-- I was so moved.
  • And I thought this is a powerful way
  • to reach people, through these photos and these stories,
  • you know?
  • And I thought, wow, we could--
  • and then the Pride Agenda talked about doing something
  • on kind of a simpler scale.
  • But I thought I wanted to do something
  • that was more professional.
  • I got professional photographers and got Eastman Kodak
  • to print out everything, which would have been a huge cost.
  • So huge kudos to Eastman Kodak for printing out
  • all those photos.
  • And then, having them mounted, and then, having them on
  • display at coffee houses and churches,
  • wherever we could get an invitation.
  • Because then people heard about the project.
  • They're like, oh, when can we get it?
  • When can we have it?
  • When can we display it?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • TODD PLANK: And so it took on a life of its own.
  • And then there was also, with the internet,
  • there was a way for us, for the pride agenda
  • to get people to put their stories online.
  • And we could encourage folks to create their own scrapbooks
  • as communities, they could bring to Albany.
  • But I really felt this was something special
  • that we created here in Rochester
  • in terms of the scale.
  • And fortunately, we had the resources
  • to be able to put something like that on.
  • And I was just really proud of that exhibit and the families
  • that were willing to make themselves visible in that way,
  • and put themselves out there.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Speak-- talk to me a little bit
  • about the fear in 2009, 10, 11, even today,
  • there are people who are afraid to come out.
  • Afraid to identify themselves as LGBT or gender identified
  • as male or female, because they're
  • looked upon differently.
  • But what is it that continues to present fear to people?
  • I mean, here we have a world that's
  • moved a long way in terms of quote, unquote "tolerance,"
  • a world that has accepted legalization of certain laws
  • and activities and implemented SONDA, implemented
  • domestic partnership benefits.
  • We don't have marriage yet, back then, why the fear?
  • TODD PLANK: I think there are good reasons for people
  • still to be fearful.
  • It's very contextual in terms of your life history, the stigma
  • that may be attached to this because of your ethnicity
  • and the culture you grew up in or your religious background.
  • And when we talk about SONDA, it's
  • great if you're in a big corporation where there's
  • measures of accountability built in
  • and a safe person to go to that to talk about discrimination.
  • But I remember in one of my coming
  • out workshops, a young man who worked in a garage, you know?
  • And the coworkers figured out that he was gay,
  • and he got harassed for it by his coworkers.
  • And it was a small business.
  • There was no one to really go to.
  • And so I think that's the challenge,
  • is it's great to have the law, but it comes down
  • to implementation of that.
  • And then we talked about corporations--
  • they were an easier place to start because they
  • had HR departments.
  • And they had, at that time, you know, they were already talking
  • about diversity and inclusion.
  • So it was kind of easy to bring in LGBT under that umbrella
  • and help them to see, oh, this is just
  • part of a continuation of the work we've been doing,
  • because Kodak had already had to deal with its issues
  • around race and discriminatory practices that
  • had been going on.
  • So when we talk about smaller businesses
  • and being able to make the case that you've been discriminated
  • against, people may not have the time or the resources.
  • And then, it's a lot of work to document all of that
  • and prove that, and is anyone else
  • going to back up your story.
  • So I think depending where you--
  • there are many people who are still
  • vulnerable in terms of the lack of a safety net for coming out.
  • And I mean, the most important thing, I think,
  • when we think about the progress of the movement,
  • it really has been about people coming out and telling
  • their stories and humanizing the issue.
  • And not just LGBT people, but straight people
  • who have friends or family or people
  • they care about who are LGBT.
  • And others who, like the Whitbecks,
  • didn't have anyone in their family, but they had neighbors.
  • They learned about the issue, and they
  • became passionate about it because it
  • was a social injustice.
  • So you had folks who already had a tradition of being engaged
  • in this work, and for whatever reason,
  • latched on to this issue and felt compelled to take action.
  • But I think even with students in schools, you know,
  • some schools do a better job than others in terms
  • of creating a safe environment.
  • And I feel like it's almost a lottery in many ways,
  • in terms of how your circumstances-- how
  • fortunate are you in terms of, do you have enough privilege
  • to kind of protect you?
  • You know, if you're in a more affluent school system
  • and they have more resources and they have an intentional plan
  • to address bullying, as opposed to a school that
  • may not have those resources.
  • Or, like I talked about, family, history, culture.
  • All of that plays into folk's self-perception
  • of if it is OK for me to be gay?
  • I mean, we're making progress.
  • But there's still a lot of stereotypes
  • out there in the media that don't fit people's experience.
  • And even locally, I still think we
  • are challenged when we talk about communities of color
  • and having local leaders or representation.
  • In my work, we endeavor to reach out to communities of color.
  • But still, you know, I think partly
  • because of the history in Rochester,
  • there was still kind of a polarization that I witnessed,
  • that it was largely white people on the buses, predominantly.
  • And maybe that's because they could
  • afford to take time off work.
  • Or maybe because marriage was more of a relevant issue.
  • Whereas for other people of lower incomes who
  • were facing just everyday survival issues,
  • like that was a luxury item.
  • That was just kind of pie in the sky
  • to think about marriage when I'm just
  • trying to get by day to day and deal with my basic needs.
  • And for folks who were low income, white
  • or people of color, I'm not implying
  • that it's just people of color.
  • I mean, doing day to day survival,
  • it's, like, this may resonate with you on some level.
  • But it's that there's some other things that are higher
  • priorities for me right now.
  • And so in some ways, we didn't draw those people
  • into the movement.
  • They were still kind of--
  • I still feel like there's a whole group of folks--
  • what's on my mind now, having gone back to college,
  • and there was definitely a big sort of a large, social justice
  • bent to my education in Brockport in social work
  • is like classism.
  • And classism in our community, there's
  • still a huge rift, which also-- it
  • parallels the rift between, I think, people of color
  • and white people in our community.
  • It kind of mirrors the larger community, right?
  • And I still think there's a lot of work
  • to be done to bridge those gaps that exist.
  • Because working on the Pride Agenda,
  • I was kind of permeable.
  • I was attending events with wealthy people,
  • successful people who had good careers
  • and affluent lifestyles, and were making
  • generous donations to fund the work that the pride agenda was
  • doing.
  • And that was important.
  • But then I also was working with people
  • on more of a grassrootsy level.
  • And working with people-- really just were barely getting by.
  • So I saw kind of this whole continuum of folks.
  • But they didn't often meet in the same place.
  • I don't mean to get off on a tangent,
  • but I just feel like racism and classism,
  • and we can talk about ageism, which
  • we know is an issue, still all these isms that
  • are going on in our community that need to be looked at.
  • Because we've been focused, more issue focused, you know?
  • Marriage, bullying, and now GENDA,
  • and kind of looking at policy, and that's important.
  • But I think, for me, in the back of my mind
  • and whatever the work I was doing, I was thinking
  • but how can we build community?
  • Like, that was, to me, ultimately the bigger picture
  • to move forward is who's missing at the table?
  • Who are we not reaching out to and why?
  • And what do we need to do so that we can allow
  • for other voices to be heard and to invite other people to table
  • in a way that's respectful, that folks
  • feel dignified to comment and talk
  • with us about why they care about this issue,
  • or about why that's not their issue.
  • But at least a starting place.
  • And so I think because there was such a focus on policy,
  • there wasn't as much focus on--
  • that was community building, but to an end.
  • And for me, community building was the end in many ways,
  • because it was going to extend beyond all
  • these other achievements that we were going to have.
  • These things were going to happen,
  • it was just a matter of when.
  • And that's where I think the Gay Alliance was so important
  • and why it spoke to me and still does.
  • For me, it was about community building.
  • Because you know, Atlantic Avenue, we had the space,
  • and all these organizations would come and meet there.
  • In some ways, we lost a part of that when we moved over here.
  • Because it was just a different vibe, a different feeling.
  • And that was difficult for me to see,
  • because I was really invested in kind of the community model.
  • And I understand the reasons for moving here.
  • Our youth group had gotten so big,
  • you know, the building just wasn't serviceable.
  • We needed a larger space.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • TODD PLANK: And you know, the decision was made to move here.
  • And certainly, we've made good use of these large spaces.
  • They're important for us.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I think what you're reflecting is really
  • pretty accurate.
  • In my conversations with African-American members
  • of our community who have made contributions and been a part
  • of our history--
  • Barbara Turner, Alyssa Matthews, Diane Conway, Ernest Dubois,
  • Stan Burd--
  • when I asked them the question, which
  • is more difficult for you, to be an African-American
  • or to be a gay person?
  • It's always African-American.
  • Because you cannot hide.
  • They cannot hide who they are.
  • They're black.
  • It's out there.
  • And that's the first thing people see.
  • Being gay, being a lesbian is hidden.
  • I mean, unless you wear a sign or--
  • TODD PLANK: Well, you have a choice whether or not
  • to disclose that information.
  • Most people do.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But being African-American,
  • you don't have a choice.
  • TODD PLANK: Right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And many, actually all, said being gay
  • was the least of their problems.
  • TODD PLANK: Right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And it's interesting,
  • because I would like to believe that attitudes have changed.
  • I would like to believe that we have grown as a society where
  • we cannot just tolerate difference,
  • but embrace difference.
  • TODD PLANK: Right.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But I really don't think we have.
  • TODD PLANK: Well, I think our culture, our community,
  • reflects the same challenges that the country faces when
  • we talk about these issues.
  • We're not so different at the end of the day.
  • And there's a sad irony in that, because we always
  • tend to think that folks who have
  • had to deal with oppression are going to be--
  • have a heightened sensitivity to not just
  • their own personal experience of oppression,
  • but other people's experiences, which
  • may not be about being gay, but like you
  • said, being African-American or whatever, you know?
  • But it doesn't necessarily translate.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So where for you in your organization--
  • what were the greatest challenges
  • in terms of getting people involved,
  • getting that grass roots effort to be cohesive
  • and to build community?
  • TODD PLANK: Mm hm.
  • Well, it took a lot of energy and persistence in terms of--
  • we would have, as an organizer, the marriage ambassador program
  • was designed to bring people in and educate and train.
  • And then, like I said, create cohesiveness.
  • We had monthly meetings that were conference calls
  • from Albany and New York that people
  • were invited to phone into.
  • So to make people feel, to help folks recognize on a grassroots
  • level, whether in Buffalo or Syracuse, wherever,
  • that you are the movement.
  • It's like you are the marriage movement.
  • You are the anti-bullying movement.
  • You are the GENDA movement.
  • It's, like, the Pride Agenda is there
  • to fight skills and tools, and yes,
  • we have an office in Albany, and we
  • have people who are there to influence legislators.
  • But it's your being out there in your everyday life
  • telling your story, educating people in your community,
  • reaching out to build that--
  • reach that tipping point, if you will,
  • in terms of getting enough people to care about the issue
  • and do something about it.
  • And ultimately, the aim was to press legislators, right?
  • To keep them hearing from their constituents about this issue
  • so they realize they can no longer brush it off or ignore
  • it, that there was going to be some accountability
  • for the action they took on this issue.
  • Which is why when the first vote came up in 2007--
  • I have a note here.
  • It was June 19th of 2007 when the Marriage Equality
  • bill passed the New York state assembly in a bipartisan vote
  • of 85 to 61.
  • There were 81 Democrats and 4 Republicans.
  • And I'll read a little bit from this.
  • This was, actually, one of the columns
  • I wrote for The Empty Closet was State of the Union.
  • It was one of my series.
  • I also had one, Family Matters, that
  • talked about the importance of family, our families.
  • So I'll just read this.
  • "We squelched the skeptics on June 19 of 2007,
  • when the Marriage Equality bill passed through the New York
  • State Assembly in a bipartisan vote of 85 to 61.
  • Although it may have appeared that former New York state
  • governor Spitzer's bill was an overnight sensation,
  • the reality is that a lot of persistent, intentional
  • outreach was done to move individual assembly
  • members along on this issue.
  • Elected officials heard from affirming clergy,
  • union representatives, and employees
  • who work for progressive companies that
  • serve as a model for what our New York state government can
  • do to protect its LGBT residents.
  • Through a combination of community forums and town hall
  • meetings, protest rallies, in district visits, phone calls,
  • traveling LGBT family photo exhibits, a statewide marriage
  • equality letter campaign, and the presence
  • of over 1,000 marriage equality activists at the Pride Agenda's
  • annual lobby day, Equality and Justice Day,
  • a majority of New York state assembly members
  • were moved by their constituents to vote yes
  • for marriage equality.
  • And, in June of 2008, voted overwhelmingly
  • in support of GENDA in a bipartisan vote of 108 to 34."
  • And then I went on to say, "now that we
  • have a Democratic majority in the Senate,
  • we must repeat the same process to secure the necessary votes
  • to win marriage.
  • As with the assembly, we must reach out
  • to both Democrats and Republicans
  • to get the required number of votes."
  • And at that time, I said our lucky number is 13.
  • "Statewide, we must move thirteen senators
  • to commit to giving us their vote for marriage equality
  • to pass the bill by a safe margin.
  • And to pass GENDA, we need to garner only an additional four
  • votes to reach our goal of 34 confirmed supporters
  • in the New York State Senate."
  • And I went on to say, "Dignity for All Students
  • is the easiest legislative lift and should
  • require a modicum of effort to get to the governor's desk."
  • So that kind of provides a picture
  • of what was happening at that time, when
  • we were able to swing to get a democratic majority,
  • thin as it was.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Who were the most difficult people to see?
  • Who are the most difficult group of people to see the value,
  • to see the need, to see that this was not
  • only important, but necessary?
  • TODD PLANK: Oh I guess you have to think
  • about that on different levels.
  • I'm thinking, locally, about the Monroe County legislature.
  • And you know, Ann Tischer was a great driver
  • of our local efforts to have people there
  • to speak before the Monroe County leg.
  • And I remember also having smaller meetings
  • with the leaders of the Monroe County leg
  • and trying to get them on board with the issue.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: They still have not--
  • TODD PLANK: Exactly!
  • And also the frustration with the Democrat and Chronicle,
  • and you know trying to get--
  • they wouldn't even grant meetings
  • with their editorial board.
  • And just the biases that they continue to--
  • stereotypes that they continue to put out every year at Pride.
  • And even recently, just in this past month,
  • Anne Tischer and Emily Jones, and I forget
  • who the third person was--
  • whether it was Debra Yue or someone else--
  • met with the editorial board.
  • And they just didn't get it.
  • Ann was saying, they're asking questions
  • that we would have expected back in 2005, six?
  • You know, like the last decade, maybe, but not now.
  • It's like they haven't moved forward on this issue.
  • They're still thinking, questioning,
  • whether it's OK to be gay.
  • And it's, like, are you not paying
  • attention to what's happening around this country
  • and around the world?
  • Where have you been?
  • And just the fact that so much amazing work
  • has happened right here in Rochester around this issue,
  • and they're still like--
  • they basically have their heads in the sand about it.
  • So that's been a source of frustration.
  • I mean, we made great progress.
  • I remember when Bill Pritcher was on the City Council,
  • they came out with a unanimous statement
  • in support of marriage equality.
  • And that was a really proud moment.
  • And I'm very grateful for the work
  • that Bill Pritcher did when he was here.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And Mayor Duffy, when he was mayor,
  • pushed it at the--
  • TODD PLANK: Absolutely.
  • I mean, yes.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: --Mayors' meeting,
  • national mayors' meeting.
  • TODD PLANK: Yes, which was fantastic.
  • So I mean, it's great to see how Rochester actually influenced,
  • in some ways, the whole country with the work we were doing.
  • You know, the Ann Tischer signs.
  • I mean, I think they're probably in all 52 states.
  • You know, they're everywhere.
  • Or like the picture of me that showed up again
  • from the lobby day in 2011.
  • And that went viral all over the country.
  • And it was about the sign it was holding, not about me.
  • I just happened to be the person holding the sign.
  • I was the prop.
  • The sign was the story.
  • It's about love.
  • But that resonated so powerfully.
  • You know, we got that message out,
  • and that picture was circulated all over the country
  • and beyond.
  • So Rochester has every right to be
  • very proud in Western New York.
  • Because when it came to the marriage vote,
  • the key votes were Senator Alesi and-- oh,
  • I can't believe his name won't come to me--
  • the Buffalo senator.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
  • TODD PLANK: So sorry.
  • I just-- his name completely escapes me at the moment.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: I wrote an article on the forum.
  • TODD PLANK: I can find it for the formal interview.
  • But I mean, it was Rochester and Buffalo that actually
  • pulled those two votes.
  • And Alesi was key.
  • And then, getting that vote in Buffalo.
  • And it was Western New York that came through.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: How involved were you in behind the scenes work
  • to get that accomplished?
  • TODD PLANK: Well, I can't--
  • I mean, Senator Alesi was my own senator.
  • So I had the advantage of both professionally
  • and, you know as a professional, talking to him about the issue,
  • and I also was a constituent on both sides.
  • And I really have to acknowledge the folks in Buffalo
  • for really taking the lead out there
  • in terms of getting meetings, getting letters.
  • Kitty Lambert and her wife, Cheryl Rudd,
  • and many other folks.
  • I mean, they became the celebrities in Buffalo.
  • And when they got married, they were the first couple
  • to get married, right, in New York state at Niagara Falls.
  • And I was there to see it happen.
  • So I mean, Kitty was just relentless out there.
  • And she had crazy energy that sometimes
  • could spin into chaos, but nonetheless, she
  • kept the momentum going in Buffalo.
  • And also the Community Center out there,
  • we were able to meet there, and they helped promote our events
  • through their newsletters and their electronic messaging.
  • And I'm very grateful to Brian Whitney, who
  • was Executive Director at the time
  • there when I worked with Buffalo.
  • And in the clergy, I mean, really it was--
  • but at the end of the day, it was really the folks in Buffalo
  • who made it happen.
  • I mean, the Pride Agenda initially
  • helped them to organize and learn how to do things.
  • But then I think of the progression.
  • It's like when you have a toddler
  • or whatever, they need to hold your hand for a while,
  • and they're learning things.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • TODD PLANK: And then they become teenagers,
  • and they start to rebel a little bit.
  • And they don't so much initially want
  • to be identified with the mother ship which in this case
  • is the Pride Agenda.
  • So it's kind of like there were growing pains there.
  • Well, it's kind of, like, the Pride Agenda still
  • wants to kind of lead and direct this group.
  • But then they also feel the need to step out
  • on their own, which, at least in Buffalo, created some tension.
  • And Buffalo has just a different culture
  • in terms of really owning their turf and their territory
  • and to get with, you had to kind of work with that.
  • A different mindset there, it was a different experience.
  • But of course, Rochester was my home.
  • So people knew me more and I lived here.
  • So it was easier for me than Buffalo.
  • But again, you know, the folks in Buffalo
  • were really powerful in terms of keeping us in the media
  • and working on legislators out there.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Who were the movers and shakers here
  • in Rochester?
  • TODD PLANK: Well, early on, I remember
  • the first folks who came to our early marriage ambassador
  • trainings.
  • And it was Christine and Jo, who were not married then,
  • but now it's Melecca Voigt, and Kitty Moran and Deb Hines.
  • And then, of course, Ann Tischer and Bess Watts,
  • who just became huge over time and really
  • took this on and hammered away at it.
  • So I think of--
  • oh, and then Denise Finnerty and Courtney.
  • I would call them my Pride angels.
  • Because they were, like, anytime I need a phone bank,
  • you'd have a letter campaign, they showed up.
  • And I think of a lot of adults who
  • came to these early trainings and so on.
  • There were also young people who cut their teeth, their activism
  • teeth, on this issue and learned the skills
  • and then grew into activists of their own.
  • And I know, Courtney and Denise, I'm very proud of them.
  • And I can't really, I mean, there are so
  • many people it would be difficult to name
  • all the names.
  • But those are just the first, the people early
  • on that I think of, that were very on
  • were very invested and committed and helped
  • to, then, kind of participate in leading other trainings here
  • locally.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: What is your driving passion?
  • TODD PLANK: That's an interesting question.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Why have you, since 2003, since before 2003--
  • SONDA passed in 2002, but you came on the scene earlier
  • than that.
  • You were in Rochester earlier than that.
  • Well, October 2003, you started with the Gay Alliance.
  • TODD PLANK: Right, and I'd been doing the coming
  • out workshops prior to that.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Now that's ten years.
  • That's a long time.
  • TODD PLANK: It's gone very fast.
  • I was very busy those ten years, so it feels like a blur now,
  • looking back.
  • And it's amazing how much we've pushed
  • the needle in those ten years.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But what drove you to do that?
  • TODD PLANK: I think once I came to terms--
  • I think, from my own personal experience of the cost
  • to me of having been in the closet
  • and not feeling acceptable or lovable.
  • And finally having to come to terms with this issue.
  • And once I did, it kind of just changed my whole world view.
  • And having found community through the Gay Alliance,
  • I felt I wanted to give back.
  • And I saw opportunities.
  • I saw there was something I could do.
  • The Gay Alliance gave me an avenue.
  • There's actually something I could
  • do on behalf of my community to support
  • people who had felt like I did.
  • And you know, if we could alleviate some of that pain
  • and suffering, and help people on an individual level move
  • to a place of celebration about who they are, and we
  • talk about pride, you know?
  • At least, that was a place where people
  • could feel accepted and valued, was coming
  • to that community center.
  • And I remember people who were coming from distances
  • like Syracuse, even, for some of my coming out
  • workshops because they were not comfortable being
  • out in their home community.
  • I mean, it wasn't just Rochester.
  • There were people who came from significant distances
  • to attend these workshops.
  • And that really spoke to me, because I
  • saw the transformation on a very individual level, just
  • saw people kind of grow into themselves.
  • And see where they are now, you know?
  • And have moved on with their lives
  • in a way where this is no longer even an issue,
  • when it was, really, at the time, they were closeted,
  • or they didn't have a sense of pride
  • about who they were as a gay or lesbian or bisexual person.
  • So I think that that passion of authenticity,
  • I think that's one of my huge values,
  • and also human connection.
  • I think those values were always woven
  • into the work I was doing.
  • And obviously, community is about connection,
  • creating those connections for people
  • and helping them to forge their own connections,
  • their own path.
  • And now I'm passionate about older issues.
  • Because we look back and hear stories
  • about older people who end up going to nursing homes
  • and end up back in isolation, having
  • to go back into the closet, which is terrible.
  • And I think also I'm thinking about the people who may still
  • be invisible because they're low income,
  • because throughout their lives they
  • haven't had a lot of options.
  • And it's, like, I would like to see those people have options,
  • to be able to age in place, and at least, in their last years,
  • to be able to be who they are, who they've always been,
  • and to have a safe place to do that.
  • So I mean, my dream is to create some kind of potentially
  • intergenerational housing for low income folks that
  • would be older adults and younger adults who still
  • face stigma and discrimination.
  • We know our youth are more likely to be thrown out
  • of their homes, can be more prone to drug
  • and alcohol abuse.
  • You know, there are still people in our community
  • who are at risk, who haven't found a haven't found a safety
  • net yet.
  • And again, we talk about--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: And don't feel safe, period.
  • TODD PLANK: And for some of those folks, they need--
  • they have still the basic needs.
  • They can't, in terms of we think about Maslow's hierarchy
  • of needs, and authenticity is at the top.
  • But if you don't have your basic security
  • needs met, how can you even have time to think
  • about those other things?
  • So I think about, again, it's a great way
  • of creating community.
  • And I think, as with the fantastic
  • panel that Kelly Clark assembled this year,
  • where we had older adults and younger people sharing
  • their stories, telling each other their stories,
  • there's this commonality there in terms of the issues
  • you face early in life and later in life,
  • and in terms of feeling safe to come out,
  • the vulnerabilities you may experience.
  • And so I just think that there's a great opportunity there
  • to, like, a synergy.
  • If we could have a place where we could have a community
  • center, and we could also have affordable housing.
  • You know, I think Rochester is largely
  • a place where we can create a safe space for people.
  • Not every area of Rochester is safe to come out
  • or feels safe being out necessarily.
  • But I think there's opportunities.
  • There's pockets where we could create safe, affordable housing
  • and create community in a different way,
  • but an important way.
  • And that need is going to grow as folks get old.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: In your political activism,
  • have you ever felt afraid of doing what you were doing,
  • either because there was an individual who was perhaps
  • overwhelmingly negative or because
  • of the sheer daunting number of people
  • who had to be worked with and shown a different way?
  • Have you have you ever experienced being afraid to do
  • what you do?
  • TODD PLANK: I can't say that I did--
  • I think, having suppressed who I was for so long.
  • I also experienced stigma for other reasons.
  • Because growing up, I'd been more of an effeminate--
  • you know, as a young child, I was more effeminate.
  • I was bullied in school.
  • Also, because of my religion I was persecuted and harassed.
  • So I had already dealt--
  • I had already kind of dealt with being different and being
  • harassed and persecuted for being different.
  • And I'd come through that.
  • I faced-- I mean, I was knocking on strangers' doors
  • to evangelize.
  • So in some ways, having done that, you know, and faced
  • people head on who were hostile and didn't want me there,
  • I guess when I came out, I'd learned.
  • I had already faced that, those attitudes.
  • And that was the exception.
  • Kind of like we have the disgruntled protesters
  • that show up that are a tiny little handful of people
  • at the Pride parade.
  • But if you look at the overwhelming majority
  • of people, they're cheering on the sidelines, right?
  • And so I always believed that most people were on our side.
  • They just needed to understand the issue and get educated.
  • And that if they did, I believed that a majority of people--
  • that, you know, it was about hearts and minds.
  • And I believe that it was educating,
  • but it was also critical that we reached the hearts of people
  • about this.
  • And that's where our stories were so important
  • and why it was so important for people
  • to come out and talk about why this issue, how it affected
  • them personally, and why they needed
  • their coworker or their neighbor or their friends or whomever
  • to do something for them, to personalize it.
  • And that's when you really had success, when you get people
  • to, not just intellectualize the issue,
  • but become personally invested because someone
  • they love or care about is being treated in an unacceptable way.
  • But yeah, no, I don't think that there was--
  • negativity stopped me.
  • I mean, yeah, I got tired sometimes.
  • But I don't think I got overwhelmed about the scale
  • of the work because I knew that was
  • happening all over the state.
  • I mean, that was the great thing about the Pride Agenda
  • is you knew there were field organizers
  • throughout the state, and it was an organized effort,
  • and we had a plan.
  • We had a very deliberate intentional plan
  • about how we were going to move forward.
  • And people can debate what they said was the best plan,
  • or if there's other ways we could have done it better,
  • but at the end of the day, this was the organization we had
  • and this was their approach to this issue
  • and they led the way.
  • They secured the funding for both the Health and Human
  • Services network, which sometimes gets overlooked,
  • that funded a lot of agencies like ours.
  • They secured the funding for the community services to continue.
  • I was just focused on, again, building community, creating
  • community, just continuing to reach out.
  • And I just trusted that things would--
  • there'd be natural progression, and eventually, we'd get there.
  • It was just a question of how soon we would get there.
  • And it was great to see New York state finally be on board early
  • instead of being the last state.
  • So that was a real thrill to have New York state
  • be one of the early states to pass marriage equality,
  • very satisfying.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: When you were working
  • at the alliance as an outreach worker,
  • not you personally, but did you hear stories about police
  • harassment, about being entrapped,
  • about those kinds of things?
  • TODD PLANK: You're asking a leading question, Evelyn.
  • So I do remember there was a whole issue of policing
  • in the parks, and entrapment of what
  • were often very vulnerable, closeted gay men who--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But by the Sheriff?
  • By the county Sheriffs, I think.
  • TODD PLANK: Like, sting operations?
  • Sure, I mean, I wasn't deeply involved
  • in those conversations.
  • But I know Bill Kelly was very aware of what was going on.
  • He was on the board during that time.
  • And I do have a story.
  • I remember a gentleman coming in when I was at the Gay Alliance
  • here, somewhat relatively more recently, right?
  • And he had been caught in a park.
  • And he was terrified because the policeman
  • said that it was going to be reported in, I believe,
  • the paper.
  • Like, some way he had scared this man terribly
  • because he wasn't out.
  • I think he might have been married,
  • and he didn't know what to do.
  • I mean, he was just--
  • and so we were able to figure out
  • that the policeman was just basically trying to scare him,
  • that he wasn't going to follow through on his threat,
  • that that wasn't going to happen.
  • We were able to make some calls and figure out what went down.
  • But I remember just the sheer terror and the huge relief
  • when he realized that his life was still
  • going to remain intact, when he thought
  • it was going to be blown apart, blown apart.
  • And you know my heart just ached for that person,
  • to see someone so vulnerable and scared, you know?
  • And the policeman just being a jerk.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I'm sure you heard many stories,
  • not only about harassment, police entrapment,
  • but within families, family members being ostracized,
  • hospitalizations in which partners
  • couldn't visit because families would not allow them to visit.
  • Wills that were never executed properly because the spouse
  • was not a relative, and the legal protections
  • were not there to make sure that--
  • TODD PLANK: Right, well, it was those stories
  • that we used on the state level, a statewide level,
  • to help people understand the human cost to denying
  • these couples legal recognition of their relationships.
  • Even the fact that you had to go to criminal court
  • if you were involved in a domestic violence situation,
  • because the perpetrator was not recognized as a spouse.
  • And the work that went--
  • when Alexander Cobus was here, who I have huge regard for, who
  • was the first person to come on board and develop our anti--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Violence.
  • TODD PLANK: --anti-violence project.
  • I thought it-- I'm trying to think.
  • It seems to me, like, I can't remember
  • if it had a different name early on,
  • but we'll call it the anti-violence project
  • with some funding that we got.
  • And you know, eventually we got to a place
  • where our families could get access to family court.
  • But that was an educational process.
  • And Alex did a lot of great work in terms
  • of moving that forward and giving people in our community,
  • for the first time, someone to call,
  • someone to talk to, who they felt safe
  • and would understand what they were going through,
  • and someone who wasn't going to be ignorant and ask
  • ridiculous questions.
  • Or that, when you already have been traumatized
  • and have been abused, you shouldn't
  • have to educate someone about your relationship.
  • And so the Gay Alliance was able to provide that,
  • and then, also, work to educate the police
  • force and other first responders about our families.
  • And you know, about how do you respond to a domestic violence
  • situation where two people of the same gender are involved?
  • So that was another, I think, leap,
  • in terms of something the Gay Alliance initiated
  • that was so needed.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Todd, over the eleven, twelve years,
  • you've always lived in Rochester,
  • but being actively engaged in the community,
  • is there one incident, one experience that looms larger
  • than any other in terms of success, in terms of Pride?
  • TODD PLANK: Oh, I think I remember,
  • and I can't remember the year.
  • But when Maggie Brooks made her ridiculous statement
  • about with Pat Martinez and Lisa Goldman.
  • And that court case, where the court here
  • ruled in favor of recognizing their relationship based
  • on comity, that New York state recognizes
  • legal contracts of other states, of our neighboring
  • country of our neighbor Canada, and the whole issue of comity
  • and how we were going to have to recognize,
  • New York state was going to recognize, those relationships.
  • You know, Maggie Brooks is, like, what about the taxpayer?
  • It's this ridiculous statement she made.
  • And so at very short notice, I remember putting out
  • the word that we need to respond to this,
  • and organize this rally out in front of the county office
  • building.
  • We cannot just let that slide.
  • That is so unacceptable.
  • And the huge number of people who came out for that.
  • The (unintelligible) was even reluctant,
  • like, you know, we don't want to have
  • an embarrassing situation where we do this
  • and then people don't show up.
  • And it was a matter of a few days.
  • I mean, it was the shortest thing I'd ever,
  • like, time frame, window.
  • And just the number of people in our community who came out
  • was just overwhelming.
  • And it just showed how connected we were as a community.
  • And that people-- we are not going to take this.
  • And we really kind of shut Maggie Brooks up after this.
  • We didn't hear a whole lot, like,
  • like she saw you're not going to get away with saying something
  • like that.
  • And you're going to be held accountable.
  • And there's a very large community out here
  • that can turn on a dime, and will, to speak out.
  • And I think it sent a larger message to other leaders
  • in the community about the fact that you can't just step on us
  • and think we're going to roll over.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • TODD PLANK: So I think that was definitely
  • a really prideful moment for me.
  • Because I was so proud of our community, that they came out.
  • It was similar when we did the marriage equality
  • march with the umbrellas, where we had all the folks show up
  • and we had that huge rally.
  • And just those pictures we have of the rainbow of umbrellas
  • going over the bridge.
  • And we had the rally in the park,
  • and there was a phenomenal turnout for that.
  • And so just seeing our community show up,
  • that's what made me proud.
  • Because I felt we've achieved something.
  • We have achieved.
  • We created a community where people are connected
  • and feel safe, that they can come out and make
  • a political statement, and speak up and speak out and be
  • visible and feel powerful.
  • And I loved that.
  • To move from a place of vulnerability and fear
  • to a place where you feel powerful and you feel proud,
  • and you feel you've got this community that you know
  • is going to show up with you when it's needed most.
  • And the year that we had three busloads--
  • when Rochester, Western New York,
  • had the largest turnout in Albany,
  • percentage-wise, percent to total,
  • the number of buses we had was just incredible,
  • the number of people that turned out.
  • And again, I'm so proud of Western New York.
  • And I'm so proud of my community,
  • because look what we have accomplished,
  • look what we have done.
  • And I continue to be really proud of, just,
  • all of the amazing organizations that have grown out of the Gay
  • Alliance that have grown up.
  • Look at Image Out.
  • Look at what's AIDS care.
  • And all the organizations that persist, like the Rochester Gay
  • Men's and Women's Chorus.
  • And I mean, for me, it always has
  • been about building community.
  • And I love, still opening up The Empty Closet
  • and see all the groups that are going on
  • and what's offered here.
  • And the degree of openness, where now we
  • have families that just feel like regular, normal families
  • living their lives.
  • And they don't necessarily have to give as much energy
  • to the cause.
  • They can just kind of live quote, unquote,
  • "normal existence."
  • Even though, obviously, there's more work
  • to be done, because we don't have DOMA defeated.
  • And in many states, they still don't even
  • have-- at a federal level, we don't have ENDA passed,
  • a gender inclusive ENDA, I want to state for the record.
  • So I mean, we're lucky here in New York state
  • in many ways in terms of what we've accomplished with SONDA.
  • And now with marriage and bullying,
  • there's a lot of work to be done to implement policy
  • when it comes to what's going on in schools.
  • And there is still education that
  • needs to be done about what it means, now
  • that we have marriage.
  • And then of course, we still have to get GENDA passed.
  • And even again, you know, after getting the laws passed,
  • it's still about humanizing and normalizing this for people.
  • And that really is about being out and feeling
  • safe to be out and be who you are.
  • And we need to continue to make it safe for people
  • who don't feel safe.
  • That's still the challenge, you know?
  • Nora Gates, who was such a wonderful mentor for me
  • at the Pride Agenda, she would talk
  • about kind of low hanging fruit, that's kind of easy to reach.
  • And I think we've done a good job of reaching that.
  • But it's, like, there are still people we haven't reached up
  • in that tree.
  • You know, or maybe we can't see it,
  • because they're kind of hidden by the brush.
  • And then there's the people who are just high up in the tree.
  • That for whatever reason, there is this barrier
  • we haven't been able to reach.
  • And so I guess I'm always trying to remain mindful of who still
  • is disenfranchised, who's still feeling their issues are
  • ignored, who don't feel like they have a place at the table
  • or they belong.
  • And if the challenge is the Gay Alliance
  • can't be everything to everyone, even
  • though I think people expect that because
  • of what the Gay Alliance is.
  • But there's still, there's always opportunities for us
  • to improve, right?
  • To kind of expand our tent pins, so more people
  • feel like they have a place under this tent called the Gay
  • Alliance of the Genessee Valley.
  • And with the small staff that we have,
  • and that's also appreciating it from the inside,
  • it's remarkable what a small group of people
  • have done and continue to do for this community.
  • There aren't really words to even acknowledge
  • the work and the sacrifices that folks who
  • have come through this agency, whether being board members
  • or working here or working as volunteers, what people have
  • given and continue to give.
  • And the huge impact, because of the huge impact we've had,
  • people think there's so many more people working here.
  • You just assume there must be this huge army of people
  • who are making all this happen.
  • And then you realize that it's really
  • this small nucleus of people who have just
  • been so committed to the work.
  • And so I'm so excited about this project,
  • so that we can really recognize all the people.
  • And you're right, because it is about shoulders-- people
  • standing on shoulders and on shoulders.
  • And this has been a movement that's
  • built and grown over time.
  • And there's no way I could have done
  • what I did without the people that preceded me.
  • And now I see other people who I feel
  • like are standing on my shoulders
  • now, who have kind of hopefully been inspired
  • and maybe learned some things, and now have moved on
  • and are growing as individuals and contributing
  • to our community.
  • And they have become activists.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: You've kind of identified
  • what really the next challenge is for the LGBT community
  • and New York.
  • And that's GENDA, to bring our transgender brothers
  • and sisters into the same level of protection that we have
  • and the same rights that we have.
  • What would you say to a 19-year-old male who
  • is just getting into this work?
  • What would you tell him was the most important thing
  • that he had to do?
  • And I'll give you a couple of sentences.
  • TODD PLANK: I'm thinking.
  • Well, I'm thinking, you know, I'm thinking--
  • I mean, for me, an essential step was find community.
  • You can't do this work in isolation,
  • if you want to make change happen or create change.
  • And so you need community.
  • You need to find resources.
  • You need to follow your passion and work on issues that you
  • care about, that matter to you.
  • And it's very difficult to find balance.
  • That's always a tension in terms of the amount of time
  • you devote to the cause, right, and also self-care
  • and having relationships, taking care of your relationships
  • and yourself.
  • And also remembering that change happens over time
  • and not to get discouraged.
  • Because that's the challenge is, you know,
  • we're not running a sprint.
  • We're running a marathon.
  • And so you've got to be prepared for that
  • and have that mindset going in.
  • And I mean, it is about changing minds and hearts.
  • I mean, that's really how change happens
  • is changing minds and hearts.
  • And obviously, getting people engaged on a local level.
  • And it's a building process.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • TODD PLANK: And realizing there's
  • highs and lows, because there's a lot of variables
  • we can't control in terms of when our issues become
  • a priority.
  • It's complex, and timing can be everything
  • in terms of when you get lift for an issue.
  • And it doesn't mean--
  • we know the issue is important.
  • It should happen today.
  • Like, you know, GENDA should have been passed way back when
  • SONDA was passed, right?
  • It should have been GENDA inclusive.
  • And people did what they thought made sense then,
  • and I'm not going to judge or criticize.
  • But now that we've got the bullying measure passed,
  • and marriage passed, in some ways,
  • I feel like it's a bigger lift now to keep GENDA on the radar,
  • because our leaders feel they've already done a lot.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • TODD PLANK: And we're dealing with a minority
  • within a minority population, and one where there's still
  • a lot of education that needs to happen around what
  • it means to be transgender.
  • There's just-- that's another leap, the educational process.
  • I think it's coming out more in the media.
  • We're hearing more stories.
  • And I think that that's important.
  • I think the transgender movement was in a different place.
  • When we talk about the LGBT movement, I think in some ways
  • the LGB was, in terms of educating the public
  • and getting people to understand the issues--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Visibility.
  • TODD PLANK: --and certainly visibility
  • is a part of that, the trajectory was just different,
  • has been different than it's been for the T. And so I mean,
  • the opportunity is that we can have more of a laser focus
  • around this issue.
  • The challenge is, for a lot of people,
  • they were energized around the bullying issue and harassment
  • in schools, because all of us could
  • relate to when we were young and our own experiences, right?
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
  • TODD PLANK: So it was, like, we do not want our youth today
  • suffering, when we still hear about the suicides,
  • and there was the It Gets Better campaign, which is fantastic.
  • Again, so many people stepping up to the challenge
  • to talk about--
  • you're valued, don't let this get you down.
  • People care and love about you.
  • You can get through this, and you can have a wonderful life.
  • And with marriage, those folks, who like,
  • that was their passion and their reason
  • for being engaged in the fight.
  • And now they kind of have that.
  • And now they want to go back to having,
  • just kind of having a life.
  • Because it was exhausting, beating on that drum
  • and giving up your time.
  • And so it's understandable.
  • People sometimes get tired.
  • And so how do we-- rekindling, some people, I mean,
  • some people need the respite.
  • They need to take some time off to take care of themselves.
  • And hoping that at some point, we'll
  • get folks re-energized for that fight, you know,
  • is maybe part of it.
  • And I think the younger generation is more--
  • is very engaged on this issue.
  • And again, because they're coming out now.
  • We used to talk about people coming out as lesbian or gay
  • on college campuses.
  • Now we're talking about people coming out--
  • they're coming out as lesbian or gay in school, in high school,
  • or maybe earlier.
  • And now, we're talking about, on a college level,
  • as maybe then coming out as trans.
  • You know, we're hearing more about that experience.
  • And so I think, you know, mobilizing folks there
  • and creating leaders to drive the movement
  • and create the momentum for this.
  • And I still think it's about telling stories.
  • And I would love to see a transgender portraits
  • project that's local that has the pictures
  • and stories of people and putting faces and names
  • to the issue.
  • And helping people understand, like when
  • I saw that Deviant Bodies project,
  • and I was blown away by it.
  • I thought that was so ahead of its time, you know?
  • And that really is what it's about is reaching people
  • on a very human level about these stories
  • and what it means.
  • Because that's when people have aha moments, when
  • they find that point of connection in the story.
  • There's a realization that this is also my story in some way.
  • Finding that point of connection, whatever
  • it was, when you felt the same way, when you felt alone
  • or lost or vulnerable or scared or afraid
  • if people would find out something about you, that you
  • would be rejected, or worse.
  • So I think, you know--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: So the 19-year-old of today
  • has to be wise in not only what they can do, but understand
  • what they can't do.
  • They have to be passionate.
  • They have to have support.
  • They have to be energized by something,
  • either within themselves or from friends.
  • TODD PLANK: Right, you have to have passion, purpose
  • and passion.
  • You have to feel a sense of purpose about this work,
  • and we have to have passion.
  • But I wouldn't say, I don't know that I want--
  • I don't know that it's our business to tell them
  • what they can't do.
  • In some ways, I think part of the beauty of being young
  • is you don't see limits when you're young.
  • You're angry, you see the injustice,
  • and you say this is unacceptable and it's wrong,
  • and I'm going to do something about it.
  • I think it's not our job necessarily
  • to squelch that energy.
  • Maybe we can help channel it.
  • But it's not for us to tell anyone what they can or can't
  • do.
  • Like, what did anyone tell Harvey Milk,
  • what he couldn't do?
  • You know what I mean?
  • I mean we want to--
  • EVELYN BAILEY: But at some point,
  • you recognize your limitations.
  • TODD PLANK: Right.
  • But it's a learning process.
  • EVELYN BAILEY: Not necessarily externally, but internally.
  • TODD PLANK: Sure, and I think that's
  • a learning process for all of us at nineteen,
  • whatever we're up to or what our plans are for the future.
  • And I think you need to have that opportunity
  • to feel the sky's the limit and to just kind
  • of go where your passion is.
  • Because it's that energy that will sustain them
  • in part, that energy.
  • And if we start to try to put a lid on it,
  • or say what you can or can't do, then I
  • think we can sometimes unwittingly squelch that.
  • And so I think it's a way of-- it's
  • about channeling that energy in a way where they can hopefully
  • see results from what they're doing.
  • Because we don't want it to be an exercise in frustration,
  • where they feel that they're hitting
  • their head against the wall.
  • Why isn't this working?
  • So again, giving them the skills and the tools,
  • and Rebecca Newberry's another name
  • to throw out there, who was doing