Audio Interview, Todd Plank, April 6, 2013
- EVELYN BAILEY: Today is April 6th.
- And we're at the Gay Alliance Library
- in the Auditorium Theater.
- And I'm sitting here with Todd Plank,
- who was originally a worker at the Gay Alliance
- many years ago.
- And then moved to the pride agenda and Western New York
- organizer and did a great deal of work
- on the marriage equality bill passing
- the legislature in 2011.
- But I want to go back a little bit, Todd.
- Are you from Rochester originally?
- TODD PLANK: From the suburbs, so I
- grew up in the area surrounding Rochester,
- but I've lived in the city for about twenty years.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And when you were growing up,
- was there much talk about gays or gay liberation
- that you recall?
- TODD PLANK: Well, when I was a teenager in Avon,
- where I graduated, I didn't hear anything about gay people.
- There was a suggestion that someone in our school was gay.
- But he was a really good basketball player
- and very popular.
- And he managed to deal with the rumors, which
- were later confirmed.
- It was actually Michael Lee, who did a lot of work
- around HIV and AIDS here in Rochester
- before he passed away.
- So he was kind of out, but it was like an open secret,
- I think, that wasn't discussed.
- And I really didn't have any understanding
- for what gay was outside of my religious upbringing, which
- said it was an abomination and--
- EVELYN BAILEY: A few other things.
- TODD PLANK: Yeah.
- EVELYN BAILEY: (Laughs)
- TODD PLANK: So you know, that was really my only--
- most of my information I got through my church,
- about what homosexuality was.
- And it was certainly something to be avoided.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What catapulted you
- into quote, unquote, "gay activism" or into the Alliance?
- TODD PLANK: My gateway to the Gay Alliance
- was when I came out in my 30s and attended a coming out
- workshop at the Gay Alliance on Atlantic Avenue.
- And that's where I met Tanya.
- And that was the beginning of my relationship with the Gay
- Alliance.
- And having gone through the workshop,
- and then having found community, I
- felt like I realized how important that was to me.
- And so I wanted to be a part of that.
- And so eventually, I designed a coming out workshop of my own
- for adults, that was adult focused.
- And so I began as a volunteer with the Gay Alliance
- initially.
- I was a personal life coach so I saw
- an opportunity to kind of combine my like coach
- skills with the coming out process
- and create something that I thought was very holistic.
- And through that, during that time,
- Jim Versteeg left the Gay Alliance.
- And so Chuck Bowen already knew me, and so
- offered me a position as the Community Education Outreach
- Coordinator.
- EVELYN BAILEY: How did you find out about this coming out
- workshop that you attended?
- TODD PLANK: I imagine it was The Empty Closet.
- EVELYN BAILEY: OK.
- TODD PLANK: I was very excited to find The Empty Closet.
- And I remember, you know, early on reading it,
- like, cover to cover.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And once you--
- TODD PLANK: And also, I imagine also there
- might have been someone who made a referral who
- knew about the Gay Alliance.
- So probably, it was a combination of The Empty Closet
- and someone in the community who pointed me
- toward the Gay Alliance.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And once you started
- working here as a Community Outreach Coordinator--
- TODD PLANK: Community Education & Outreach Coordinator,
- long title--
- and that, at that time was divided between a couple
- of different activities.
- But I was running the community center,
- managing the calendar for the different groups.
- And I was kind of a liaison of the community in that sense,
- on a grassrootsy kind of level.
- And I was writing articles for The Empty Closet.
- I was obviously going out and speaking and doing
- some education training, tabling to represent the Gay
- Alliance at different events.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Do you recall any of the educational trainings
- you did at that time?
- Was it with schools, primarily?
- Was it with corporations?
- Was it-- I mean--
- TODD PLANK: I was trying to look back and remember
- what, specifically, I did.
- You may know from the archives.
- I believe that the Gay Alliance came--
- I remember-- oh, I had her name right--
- Donna Red Wing.
- I remember the Gay Alliance bringing
- Donna Red Wing to Rochester.
- And I believe that she assisted in the Gay Alliance creating
- some kind of best practices for businesses to implement SONDA.
- And I know, because I remember Chuck being kind of the public
- figurehead and speaking to the press a bit about the work
- that we were doing in conjunction with the Sexual
- Orientation Nondiscrimination Act being passed.
- And I remember being at Bausch and Lomb
- for one of those trainings when Donna came up here.
- And I did some schools.
- I believe I did do some presentations to schools.
- But I believe Toby Greenfield, she was then the youth
- director, and I think she was spearheading
- a lot of what was driven as far as anti-bullying initiatives
- and that part of it.
- EVELYN BAILEY: In schools?
- And didn't Donna work specifically
- with Eastman Kodak Company?
- And well, I don't know if she worked with management.
- She developed a program for shop, floors, for the lines.
- TODD PLANK: I know--
- my--
- EVELYN BAILEY: I'm not being very clear.
- TODD PLANK: Right.
- I know my partner at that time, Paul Brew
- actually worked on the shop floor at Kodak.
- And I believe that he provided some feedback
- into his experience, because he'd been outed,
- and was a blue collar worker at Kodak.
- And you know, there was a lot happening with the white collar
- group, right, but in terms of translating that down
- to implementing it--
- I don't want to say factory level,
- but you know, on more of a--
- operationalizing that among blue collar workers,
- it was a different culture.
- And so she may very well have done some work with that.
- But I can't recall the details.
- But I do remember her coming up here several times
- and specifically, to work with the Gay Alliance
- around this educational piece related to SONDA.
- And I'm thinking the big three that we
- worked with were Xerox, Bausch and Lomb, and Kodak.
- And I remember those being kind of the big three.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- TODD PLANK: And then other interesting opportunities
- arose.
- I remember doing Peppitoni.
- We got a request for a post office
- that had someone coming out as trans on the job.
- And we were contacted by a post office
- to come in and do a training.
- So you know, we weren't just--
- obviously, we were dealing with the corporations.
- But we were also available, on call, as you will,
- for any workplace or any school or college that
- wanted us to come in and do some education and potentially
- some advocacy, too.
- In some ways, to direct people who were already
- allies in the workplace or in whatever sphere of influence
- they had, who realized the need for work to be done,
- but didn't know how to approach it or where to start.
- And so the Gay Alliance was there to kind of help
- outline those preliminary steps that they
- could take to work toward an objective of--
- at that time, we were talking about making
- workplaces safer and tolerance.
- It was interesting.
- You know, looking back at the past few--
- if you think from 2003 to today, ten years later,
- how the needle has really moved from,
- it's like, it's not OK to tolerate.
- I remember saying, it's like, you know,
- you tolerate your garbage until it smells too bad.
- And then you throw it out.
- You know, it's like we needed to move
- beyond that to a place of accepting people for who
- they are and respecting them.
- And ultimately, hoping to get people
- to a place of celebration about who we are in our families
- and what we contribute in the larger community.
- So attaching value to ourselves--
- it wasn't OK just to be tolerated.
- It's we as human beings had value and deserved
- to be recognized for the value we brought,
- whether to the workplace or to the community,
- wherever we were.
- And so I think that was part of our pride,
- was really not settling for being tolerated, but--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Going beyond that.
- TODD PLANK: --pushing further.
- Yeah, and it was a process.
- Obviously, it was a process.
- As people got to know us and understand and appreciate
- our differences, as well as what we had in common,
- it helped to move that needle.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Were you involved with SONDA at all?
- TODD PLANK: When I came on board,
- SONDA had already been implemented.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Or it had passed, anyway.
- TODD PLANK: Yes, and I should say yes, it had been passed.
- And actually, when it comes to legislation,
- what I remember first was in 2003
- when the Supreme Court ruled the sodomy laws unconstitutional.
- And I remember having an event at the Gay Alliance,
- and the news was there.
- We had this big map, and we had outlined.
- And then there were like the fourteen states
- that still had the sodomy laws.
- And we were putting stickers on each of those.
- And I remember putting the last sticker on the last state
- to show that we were no longer criminals, according
- to the Supreme Court.
- And it's kind of shocking to think
- that even at that time there were fourteen states that
- still had those laws.
- And that was really powerful, because prior to that, I mean,
- we could be criminalized.
- It's, like--
- EVELYN BAILEY: You could be arrested.
- TODD PLANK: Yeah, I mean, people lost rights as parents
- if they came out, you know?
- They become unfit.
- There was just so much harm that could
- be done in those states that still had the laws.
- And then also, even, just the message that sent,
- that somehow this is still acceptable.
- And it's interesting, because even
- I forget which justice it was-- if it was Alito or Scalia,
- he even said that that ruling really
- opened the gateway to marriage.
- Because once you decriminalize these relationships,
- ultimately there's no real basis for preventing them
- from marrying.
- And so it's interesting now, here we're
- having the case that's having been brought before the Supreme
- Court and looking to see how they're going to rule.
- So it's pretty exciting in ten years
- to think about not only were we decriminalized in 2003-- now
- here in 2013, the Supreme Court is hearing about marriage.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now shortly after SONDA
- was passed, after 2003 when the sodomy laws were identified
- as unconstitutional, domestic partnership benefits
- or domestic partnerships came to the fore.
- And there were many, many cities and really
- corporations, I think, led the way in that.
- And I think labor led the way in some of that,
- in getting into contracts the right for people
- to take care of each other.
- Not sick leave, but death leave, because at that time,
- well AIDS had passed.
- But there was, I think, earlier, even, Tom Privitere
- and I had a conversation now.
- I can't remember dates and years.
- But domestic partnerships came to the fore.
- And the City of Rochester was the first,
- I think, in this area to pass domestic partnership benefits.
- TODD PLANK: I honestly can't remember if we were the first.
- But I remember there being a lot of conversation
- about domestic partnerships.
- And in terms of advancing equality in the workplace, that
- was one of the big things that was promoted
- was equality in the workplace means equal benefits
- to the full degree the law allows.
- And so that became a litmus test early on for companies in terms
- of what are the benchmarks.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- TODD PLANK: And I can't recall when HRC came out
- with its corporate equality index,
- but I know that that also was a really useful tool.
- EVELYN BAILEY: In and around that
- time, because it's been around for quite a while.
- TODD PLANK: Because it was really
- helpful then to see where different companies were.
- And I'm sure if we looked at a comparison between 2003,
- where they were.
- Now, really, the litmus test is transgender rights
- and protections in the workplace.
- I mean, that's how far we've come
- in terms of LGBT issues in the workplace,
- that that is now kind of--
- do you want to get a 100%, you've
- got to have done your work on that for those employees.
- EVELYN BAILEY: When did Pride in The Workplace and Pride
- in The Pulpit, and there was one other--
- Pride in Labor?
- TODD PLANK: It was Pride in My Union.
- EVELYN BAILEY: In My Union?
- TODD PLANK: Right, Pride in The Pulpit,
- and Pride in The Workplace.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And was that when you were Western New York
- regional coordinator?
- TODD PLANK: Yes.
- Though I believe those pride programs already
- existed or were in the process of being
- formed when I came on board.
- And that was the pride agenda's three pronged approach,
- to advance equality and reach out to these groups
- that we know have power, and that
- also have tentacles that reach out
- into communities, far reaching.
- And so working with people of faith
- and religious organizations that were supportive,
- or that we could potentially get in and educate and bring along
- their journey to a place of fuller inclusion,
- and hopefully, compelling them, as they heard our stories
- and understood the issues, to want to take some action.
- And then Pride in The Workplace--
- with the pride agenda, I think that was working more
- at higher levels in terms of corporations and businesses
- to get in and talk to the players, if you will,
- the higher level people.
- And then get that to translate down into their policies
- and practices, and provide guidelines for doing that,
- giving businesses the tools they need
- to navigate what sometimes could be
- a confusing process for them.
- When you talk about the practical realities
- like domestic partnerships, and there's issues around,
- because of state law and DOMA, how
- that affected how they could go about trying to rectify
- the disparities, there are all kinds of implications
- legally with that that had to be addressed.
- And then, just also the whole culture change process,
- and how do you approach that in a way that
- will be successful and anticipate the resistance
- you may face?
- So you can kind of look ahead and address
- some of those things early on to smooth out
- the path for everybody.
- And then, with Pride in My Union,
- I know Desma Holcomb had a lot of experience
- with unions before coming onto the pride agenda.
- And so that was an area of focus for her,
- understanding the power of unions and the tradition,
- as far as social justice and equality and civil rights
- movements, that unions had played a significant role
- in tapping into that.
- Especially when it came to going to Albany,
- because people in unions were used to exerting their muscle.
- And those folks already had learned how to organize,
- and also they were cohesive groups, where
- you can mobilize a lot of people if you could make your case,
- and they embrace the issue.
- And so I know unions were important,
- along with people of faith who also really
- turned out for many of the rallies that we had in Albany.
- I think locally, especially, we had
- so many faith-based organizations
- that championed this issue, and faith leaders
- who were open about it, writing letters to the editor
- and speaking to the media and going to Albany.
- It was exceptional, I feel, in Rochester,
- for a city of our size to have the level of support
- that we had from the faith community.
- I wasn't as involved with the unions.
- But I know Bess Watts, she's certainly--
- and Tom Privitere and people who are involved
- in unions themselves can speak more
- to that in terms of the process of bringing
- the unions on and getting them to step up and step out.
- But I remember attending some meetings
- and doing some presentations to some union
- people in the Rochester area.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Who were your clients?
- Who were your people that you worked
- with in different groups?
- Do you recall?
- TODD PLANK: As an organizer?
- EVELYN BAILEY: As an organizer.
- TODD PLANK: Well, I mean, a big part of what--
- I was intended to be a grassroots organizer.
- So initially, it was creating a cohesive group
- of people who we could mobilize, whether it was doing phone bank
- and getting out to collect letters or signatures,
- to do outreach at public events.
- And I worked, and I was responsible for Buffalo,
- as well.
- So I was working to create these cohesive groups that
- could grow.
- And I remember initially we had what we called
- marriage ambassador trainings.
- And that was kind of the beginning
- of drawing in people who we could train as activists.
- Give them the skills to know how to conduct
- a meeting with your legislator, how to have conversations
- with people about these issues, and identify those folks
- who were passionate about the issue
- and wanted to do something, and then also, through them,
- reach out to additional people.
- And then I developed projects on a local scale
- to keep folks engaged.
- And then, of course, there were the big poll
- pushes for the lobby days, the annual lobby
- days in the spring every year to get to Albany.
- But one project I was really proud of--
- it was a photo project called Equal Measure Portraits
- of Love.
- And I was going back through my email
- and found one that was, like, the unveiling of this.
- And basically, they were these beautiful portraits
- of families and allies.
- We had Jamie and Sally Whitbeck, who was a straight couple.
- I remember we had ministers who were straight.
- And then many different-- you know, we had families with dads
- with adopted children, we had interracial couples.
- I know we worked really hard to get a diverse mix of folks
- in both Buffalo and Rochester.
- Because we felt we need to humanize the issue.
- We need to personalize it in a way
- that these are people in your community
- who are being denied rights.
- And this is the effect on their family.
- And this is what it would mean if they had marriage.
- So it was a great way for a person
- to just go up and kind of absorb the picture,
- and then read the narrative, and think about it.
- That they weren't being challenged.
- They weren't being talked at.
- It was just an opportunity for them
- to read and contemplate and think
- about it in a non-threatening environment.
- And the exhibit opened at Equal Grounds.
- If I'm correct, it was back in 2009.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Was this your idea?
- TODD PLANK: I borrowed it.
- I learned about it from--
- there were other projects that I learned about.
- Initially, what really inspired me
- was I'd gone to Buffalo for an exhibit called
- Deviant Bodies that was about transgender people.
- And they were these huge portraits and then
- the accompanying narrative.
- And it was so powerful to see these.
- I'd never seen an exhibit of this scale in Buffalo, I mean,
- anywhere.
- And then it was really just--
- I thought-- I was so moved.
- And I thought this is a powerful way
- to reach people, through these photos and these stories,
- you know?
- And I thought, wow, we could--
- and then the Pride Agenda talked about doing something
- on kind of a simpler scale.
- But I thought I wanted to do something
- that was more professional.
- I got professional photographers and got Eastman Kodak
- to print out everything, which would have been a huge cost.
- So huge kudos to Eastman Kodak for printing out
- all those photos.
- And then, having them mounted, and then, having them on
- display at coffee houses and churches,
- wherever we could get an invitation.
- Because then people heard about the project.
- They're like, oh, when can we get it?
- When can we have it?
- When can we display it?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- TODD PLANK: And so it took on a life of its own.
- And then there was also, with the internet,
- there was a way for us, for the pride agenda
- to get people to put their stories online.
- And we could encourage folks to create their own scrapbooks
- as communities, they could bring to Albany.
- But I really felt this was something special
- that we created here in Rochester
- in terms of the scale.
- And fortunately, we had the resources
- to be able to put something like that on.
- And I was just really proud of that exhibit and the families
- that were willing to make themselves visible in that way,
- and put themselves out there.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Speak-- talk to me a little bit
- about the fear in 2009, 10, 11, even today,
- there are people who are afraid to come out.
- Afraid to identify themselves as LGBT or gender identified
- as male or female, because they're
- looked upon differently.
- But what is it that continues to present fear to people?
- I mean, here we have a world that's
- moved a long way in terms of quote, unquote "tolerance,"
- a world that has accepted legalization of certain laws
- and activities and implemented SONDA, implemented
- domestic partnership benefits.
- We don't have marriage yet, back then, why the fear?
- TODD PLANK: I think there are good reasons for people
- still to be fearful.
- It's very contextual in terms of your life history, the stigma
- that may be attached to this because of your ethnicity
- and the culture you grew up in or your religious background.
- And when we talk about SONDA, it's
- great if you're in a big corporation where there's
- measures of accountability built in
- and a safe person to go to that to talk about discrimination.
- But I remember in one of my coming
- out workshops, a young man who worked in a garage, you know?
- And the coworkers figured out that he was gay,
- and he got harassed for it by his coworkers.
- And it was a small business.
- There was no one to really go to.
- And so I think that's the challenge,
- is it's great to have the law, but it comes down
- to implementation of that.
- And then we talked about corporations--
- they were an easier place to start because they
- had HR departments.
- And they had, at that time, you know, they were already talking
- about diversity and inclusion.
- So it was kind of easy to bring in LGBT under that umbrella
- and help them to see, oh, this is just
- part of a continuation of the work we've been doing,
- because Kodak had already had to deal with its issues
- around race and discriminatory practices that
- had been going on.
- So when we talk about smaller businesses
- and being able to make the case that you've been discriminated
- against, people may not have the time or the resources.
- And then, it's a lot of work to document all of that
- and prove that, and is anyone else
- going to back up your story.
- So I think depending where you--
- there are many people who are still
- vulnerable in terms of the lack of a safety net for coming out.
- And I mean, the most important thing, I think,
- when we think about the progress of the movement,
- it really has been about people coming out and telling
- their stories and humanizing the issue.
- And not just LGBT people, but straight people
- who have friends or family or people
- they care about who are LGBT.
- And others who, like the Whitbecks,
- didn't have anyone in their family, but they had neighbors.
- They learned about the issue, and they
- became passionate about it because it
- was a social injustice.
- So you had folks who already had a tradition of being engaged
- in this work, and for whatever reason,
- latched on to this issue and felt compelled to take action.
- But I think even with students in schools, you know,
- some schools do a better job than others in terms
- of creating a safe environment.
- And I feel like it's almost a lottery in many ways,
- in terms of how your circumstances-- how
- fortunate are you in terms of, do you have enough privilege
- to kind of protect you?
- You know, if you're in a more affluent school system
- and they have more resources and they have an intentional plan
- to address bullying, as opposed to a school that
- may not have those resources.
- Or, like I talked about, family, history, culture.
- All of that plays into folk's self-perception
- of if it is OK for me to be gay?
- I mean, we're making progress.
- But there's still a lot of stereotypes
- out there in the media that don't fit people's experience.
- And even locally, I still think we
- are challenged when we talk about communities of color
- and having local leaders or representation.
- In my work, we endeavor to reach out to communities of color.
- But still, you know, I think partly
- because of the history in Rochester,
- there was still kind of a polarization that I witnessed,
- that it was largely white people on the buses, predominantly.
- And maybe that's because they could
- afford to take time off work.
- Or maybe because marriage was more of a relevant issue.
- Whereas for other people of lower incomes who
- were facing just everyday survival issues,
- like that was a luxury item.
- That was just kind of pie in the sky
- to think about marriage when I'm just
- trying to get by day to day and deal with my basic needs.
- And for folks who were low income, white
- or people of color, I'm not implying
- that it's just people of color.
- I mean, doing day to day survival,
- it's, like, this may resonate with you on some level.
- But it's that there's some other things that are higher
- priorities for me right now.
- And so in some ways, we didn't draw those people
- into the movement.
- They were still kind of--
- I still feel like there's a whole group of folks--
- what's on my mind now, having gone back to college,
- and there was definitely a big sort of a large, social justice
- bent to my education in Brockport in social work
- is like classism.
- And classism in our community, there's
- still a huge rift, which also-- it
- parallels the rift between, I think, people of color
- and white people in our community.
- It kind of mirrors the larger community, right?
- And I still think there's a lot of work
- to be done to bridge those gaps that exist.
- Because working on the Pride Agenda,
- I was kind of permeable.
- I was attending events with wealthy people,
- successful people who had good careers
- and affluent lifestyles, and were making
- generous donations to fund the work that the pride agenda was
- doing.
- And that was important.
- But then I also was working with people
- on more of a grassrootsy level.
- And working with people-- really just were barely getting by.
- So I saw kind of this whole continuum of folks.
- But they didn't often meet in the same place.
- I don't mean to get off on a tangent,
- but I just feel like racism and classism,
- and we can talk about ageism, which
- we know is an issue, still all these isms that
- are going on in our community that need to be looked at.
- Because we've been focused, more issue focused, you know?
- Marriage, bullying, and now GENDA,
- and kind of looking at policy, and that's important.
- But I think, for me, in the back of my mind
- and whatever the work I was doing, I was thinking
- but how can we build community?
- Like, that was, to me, ultimately the bigger picture
- to move forward is who's missing at the table?
- Who are we not reaching out to and why?
- And what do we need to do so that we can allow
- for other voices to be heard and to invite other people to table
- in a way that's respectful, that folks
- feel dignified to comment and talk
- with us about why they care about this issue,
- or about why that's not their issue.
- But at least a starting place.
- And so I think because there was such a focus on policy,
- there wasn't as much focus on--
- that was community building, but to an end.
- And for me, community building was the end in many ways,
- because it was going to extend beyond all
- these other achievements that we were going to have.
- These things were going to happen,
- it was just a matter of when.
- And that's where I think the Gay Alliance was so important
- and why it spoke to me and still does.
- For me, it was about community building.
- Because you know, Atlantic Avenue, we had the space,
- and all these organizations would come and meet there.
- In some ways, we lost a part of that when we moved over here.
- Because it was just a different vibe, a different feeling.
- And that was difficult for me to see,
- because I was really invested in kind of the community model.
- And I understand the reasons for moving here.
- Our youth group had gotten so big,
- you know, the building just wasn't serviceable.
- We needed a larger space.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- TODD PLANK: And you know, the decision was made to move here.
- And certainly, we've made good use of these large spaces.
- They're important for us.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I think what you're reflecting is really
- pretty accurate.
- In my conversations with African-American members
- of our community who have made contributions and been a part
- of our history--
- Barbara Turner, Alyssa Matthews, Diane Conway, Ernest Dubois,
- Stan Burd--
- when I asked them the question, which
- is more difficult for you, to be an African-American
- or to be a gay person?
- It's always African-American.
- Because you cannot hide.
- They cannot hide who they are.
- They're black.
- It's out there.
- And that's the first thing people see.
- Being gay, being a lesbian is hidden.
- I mean, unless you wear a sign or--
- TODD PLANK: Well, you have a choice whether or not
- to disclose that information.
- Most people do.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But being African-American,
- you don't have a choice.
- TODD PLANK: Right.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And many, actually all, said being gay
- was the least of their problems.
- TODD PLANK: Right.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And it's interesting,
- because I would like to believe that attitudes have changed.
- I would like to believe that we have grown as a society where
- we cannot just tolerate difference,
- but embrace difference.
- TODD PLANK: Right.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But I really don't think we have.
- TODD PLANK: Well, I think our culture, our community,
- reflects the same challenges that the country faces when
- we talk about these issues.
- We're not so different at the end of the day.
- And there's a sad irony in that, because we always
- tend to think that folks who have
- had to deal with oppression are going to be--
- have a heightened sensitivity to not just
- their own personal experience of oppression,
- but other people's experiences, which
- may not be about being gay, but like you
- said, being African-American or whatever, you know?
- But it doesn't necessarily translate.
- EVELYN BAILEY: So where for you in your organization--
- what were the greatest challenges
- in terms of getting people involved,
- getting that grass roots effort to be cohesive
- and to build community?
- TODD PLANK: Mm hm.
- Well, it took a lot of energy and persistence in terms of--
- we would have, as an organizer, the marriage ambassador program
- was designed to bring people in and educate and train.
- And then, like I said, create cohesiveness.
- We had monthly meetings that were conference calls
- from Albany and New York that people
- were invited to phone into.
- So to make people feel, to help folks recognize on a grassroots
- level, whether in Buffalo or Syracuse, wherever,
- that you are the movement.
- It's like you are the marriage movement.
- You are the anti-bullying movement.
- You are the GENDA movement.
- It's, like, the Pride Agenda is there
- to fight skills and tools, and yes,
- we have an office in Albany, and we
- have people who are there to influence legislators.
- But it's your being out there in your everyday life
- telling your story, educating people in your community,
- reaching out to build that--
- reach that tipping point, if you will,
- in terms of getting enough people to care about the issue
- and do something about it.
- And ultimately, the aim was to press legislators, right?
- To keep them hearing from their constituents about this issue
- so they realize they can no longer brush it off or ignore
- it, that there was going to be some accountability
- for the action they took on this issue.
- Which is why when the first vote came up in 2007--
- I have a note here.
- It was June 19th of 2007 when the Marriage Equality
- bill passed the New York state assembly in a bipartisan vote
- of 85 to 61.
- There were 81 Democrats and 4 Republicans.
- And I'll read a little bit from this.
- This was, actually, one of the columns
- I wrote for The Empty Closet was State of the Union.
- It was one of my series.
- I also had one, Family Matters, that
- talked about the importance of family, our families.
- So I'll just read this.
- "We squelched the skeptics on June 19 of 2007,
- when the Marriage Equality bill passed through the New York
- State Assembly in a bipartisan vote of 85 to 61.
- Although it may have appeared that former New York state
- governor Spitzer's bill was an overnight sensation,
- the reality is that a lot of persistent, intentional
- outreach was done to move individual assembly
- members along on this issue.
- Elected officials heard from affirming clergy,
- union representatives, and employees
- who work for progressive companies that
- serve as a model for what our New York state government can
- do to protect its LGBT residents.
- Through a combination of community forums and town hall
- meetings, protest rallies, in district visits, phone calls,
- traveling LGBT family photo exhibits, a statewide marriage
- equality letter campaign, and the presence
- of over 1,000 marriage equality activists at the Pride Agenda's
- annual lobby day, Equality and Justice Day,
- a majority of New York state assembly members
- were moved by their constituents to vote yes
- for marriage equality.
- And, in June of 2008, voted overwhelmingly
- in support of GENDA in a bipartisan vote of 108 to 34."
- And then I went on to say, "now that we
- have a Democratic majority in the Senate,
- we must repeat the same process to secure the necessary votes
- to win marriage.
- As with the assembly, we must reach out
- to both Democrats and Republicans
- to get the required number of votes."
- And at that time, I said our lucky number is 13.
- "Statewide, we must move thirteen senators
- to commit to giving us their vote for marriage equality
- to pass the bill by a safe margin.
- And to pass GENDA, we need to garner only an additional four
- votes to reach our goal of 34 confirmed supporters
- in the New York State Senate."
- And I went on to say, "Dignity for All Students
- is the easiest legislative lift and should
- require a modicum of effort to get to the governor's desk."
- So that kind of provides a picture
- of what was happening at that time, when
- we were able to swing to get a democratic majority,
- thin as it was.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Who were the most difficult people to see?
- Who are the most difficult group of people to see the value,
- to see the need, to see that this was not
- only important, but necessary?
- TODD PLANK: Oh I guess you have to think
- about that on different levels.
- I'm thinking, locally, about the Monroe County legislature.
- And you know, Ann Tischer was a great driver
- of our local efforts to have people there
- to speak before the Monroe County leg.
- And I remember also having smaller meetings
- with the leaders of the Monroe County leg
- and trying to get them on board with the issue.
- EVELYN BAILEY: They still have not--
- TODD PLANK: Exactly!
- And also the frustration with the Democrat and Chronicle,
- and you know trying to get--
- they wouldn't even grant meetings
- with their editorial board.
- And just the biases that they continue to--
- stereotypes that they continue to put out every year at Pride.
- And even recently, just in this past month,
- Anne Tischer and Emily Jones, and I forget
- who the third person was--
- whether it was Debra Yue or someone else--
- met with the editorial board.
- And they just didn't get it.
- Ann was saying, they're asking questions
- that we would have expected back in 2005, six?
- You know, like the last decade, maybe, but not now.
- It's like they haven't moved forward on this issue.
- They're still thinking, questioning,
- whether it's OK to be gay.
- And it's, like, are you not paying
- attention to what's happening around this country
- and around the world?
- Where have you been?
- And just the fact that so much amazing work
- has happened right here in Rochester around this issue,
- and they're still like--
- they basically have their heads in the sand about it.
- So that's been a source of frustration.
- I mean, we made great progress.
- I remember when Bill Pritcher was on the City Council,
- they came out with a unanimous statement
- in support of marriage equality.
- And that was a really proud moment.
- And I'm very grateful for the work
- that Bill Pritcher did when he was here.
- EVELYN BAILEY: And Mayor Duffy, when he was mayor,
- pushed it at the--
- TODD PLANK: Absolutely.
- I mean, yes.
- EVELYN BAILEY: --Mayors' meeting,
- national mayors' meeting.
- TODD PLANK: Yes, which was fantastic.
- So I mean, it's great to see how Rochester actually influenced,
- in some ways, the whole country with the work we were doing.
- You know, the Ann Tischer signs.
- I mean, I think they're probably in all 52 states.
- You know, they're everywhere.
- Or like the picture of me that showed up again
- from the lobby day in 2011.
- And that went viral all over the country.
- And it was about the sign it was holding, not about me.
- I just happened to be the person holding the sign.
- I was the prop.
- The sign was the story.
- It's about love.
- But that resonated so powerfully.
- You know, we got that message out,
- and that picture was circulated all over the country
- and beyond.
- So Rochester has every right to be
- very proud in Western New York.
- Because when it came to the marriage vote,
- the key votes were Senator Alesi and-- oh,
- I can't believe his name won't come to me--
- the Buffalo senator.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.
- TODD PLANK: So sorry.
- I just-- his name completely escapes me at the moment.
- EVELYN BAILEY: I wrote an article on the forum.
- TODD PLANK: I can find it for the formal interview.
- But I mean, it was Rochester and Buffalo that actually
- pulled those two votes.
- And Alesi was key.
- And then, getting that vote in Buffalo.
- And it was Western New York that came through.
- EVELYN BAILEY: How involved were you in behind the scenes work
- to get that accomplished?
- TODD PLANK: Well, I can't--
- I mean, Senator Alesi was my own senator.
- So I had the advantage of both professionally
- and, you know as a professional, talking to him about the issue,
- and I also was a constituent on both sides.
- And I really have to acknowledge the folks in Buffalo
- for really taking the lead out there
- in terms of getting meetings, getting letters.
- Kitty Lambert and her wife, Cheryl Rudd,
- and many other folks.
- I mean, they became the celebrities in Buffalo.
- And when they got married, they were the first couple
- to get married, right, in New York state at Niagara Falls.
- And I was there to see it happen.
- So I mean, Kitty was just relentless out there.
- And she had crazy energy that sometimes
- could spin into chaos, but nonetheless, she
- kept the momentum going in Buffalo.
- And also the Community Center out there,
- we were able to meet there, and they helped promote our events
- through their newsletters and their electronic messaging.
- And I'm very grateful to Brian Whitney, who
- was Executive Director at the time
- there when I worked with Buffalo.
- And in the clergy, I mean, really it was--
- but at the end of the day, it was really the folks in Buffalo
- who made it happen.
- I mean, the Pride Agenda initially
- helped them to organize and learn how to do things.
- But then I think of the progression.
- It's like when you have a toddler
- or whatever, they need to hold your hand for a while,
- and they're learning things.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- TODD PLANK: And then they become teenagers,
- and they start to rebel a little bit.
- And they don't so much initially want
- to be identified with the mother ship which in this case
- is the Pride Agenda.
- So it's kind of like there were growing pains there.
- Well, it's kind of, like, the Pride Agenda still
- wants to kind of lead and direct this group.
- But then they also feel the need to step out
- on their own, which, at least in Buffalo, created some tension.
- And Buffalo has just a different culture
- in terms of really owning their turf and their territory
- and to get with, you had to kind of work with that.
- A different mindset there, it was a different experience.
- But of course, Rochester was my home.
- So people knew me more and I lived here.
- So it was easier for me than Buffalo.
- But again, you know, the folks in Buffalo
- were really powerful in terms of keeping us in the media
- and working on legislators out there.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Who were the movers and shakers here
- in Rochester?
- TODD PLANK: Well, early on, I remember
- the first folks who came to our early marriage ambassador
- trainings.
- And it was Christine and Jo, who were not married then,
- but now it's Melecca Voigt, and Kitty Moran and Deb Hines.
- And then, of course, Ann Tischer and Bess Watts,
- who just became huge over time and really
- took this on and hammered away at it.
- So I think of--
- oh, and then Denise Finnerty and Courtney.
- I would call them my Pride angels.
- Because they were, like, anytime I need a phone bank,
- you'd have a letter campaign, they showed up.
- And I think of a lot of adults who
- came to these early trainings and so on.
- There were also young people who cut their teeth, their activism
- teeth, on this issue and learned the skills
- and then grew into activists of their own.
- And I know, Courtney and Denise, I'm very proud of them.
- And I can't really, I mean, there are so
- many people it would be difficult to name
- all the names.
- But those are just the first, the people early
- on that I think of, that were very on
- were very invested and committed and helped
- to, then, kind of participate in leading other trainings here
- locally.
- EVELYN BAILEY: What is your driving passion?
- TODD PLANK: That's an interesting question.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Why have you, since 2003, since before 2003--
- SONDA passed in 2002, but you came on the scene earlier
- than that.
- You were in Rochester earlier than that.
- Well, October 2003, you started with the Gay Alliance.
- TODD PLANK: Right, and I'd been doing the coming
- out workshops prior to that.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Now that's ten years.
- That's a long time.
- TODD PLANK: It's gone very fast.
- I was very busy those ten years, so it feels like a blur now,
- looking back.
- And it's amazing how much we've pushed
- the needle in those ten years.
- EVELYN BAILEY: But what drove you to do that?
- TODD PLANK: I think once I came to terms--
- I think, from my own personal experience of the cost
- to me of having been in the closet
- and not feeling acceptable or lovable.
- And finally having to come to terms with this issue.
- And once I did, it kind of just changed my whole world view.
- And having found community through the Gay Alliance,
- I felt I wanted to give back.
- And I saw opportunities.
- I saw there was something I could do.
- The Gay Alliance gave me an avenue.
- There's actually something I could
- do on behalf of my community to support
- people who had felt like I did.
- And you know, if we could alleviate some of that pain
- and suffering, and help people on an individual level move
- to a place of celebration about who they are, and we
- talk about pride, you know?
- At least, that was a place where people
- could feel accepted and valued, was coming
- to that community center.
- And I remember people who were coming from distances
- like Syracuse, even, for some of my coming out
- workshops because they were not comfortable being
- out in their home community.
- I mean, it wasn't just Rochester.
- There were people who came from significant distances
- to attend these workshops.
- And that really spoke to me, because I
- saw the transformation on a very individual level, just
- saw people kind of grow into themselves.
- And see where they are now, you know?
- And have moved on with their lives
- in a way where this is no longer even an issue,
- when it was, really, at the time, they were closeted,
- or they didn't have a sense of pride
- about who they were as a gay or lesbian or bisexual person.
- So I think that that passion of authenticity,
- I think that's one of my huge values,
- and also human connection.
- I think those values were always woven
- into the work I was doing.
- And obviously, community is about connection,
- creating those connections for people
- and helping them to forge their own connections,
- their own path.
- And now I'm passionate about older issues.
- Because we look back and hear stories
- about older people who end up going to nursing homes
- and end up back in isolation, having
- to go back into the closet, which is terrible.
- And I think also I'm thinking about the people who may still
- be invisible because they're low income,
- because throughout their lives they
- haven't had a lot of options.
- And it's, like, I would like to see those people have options,
- to be able to age in place, and at least, in their last years,
- to be able to be who they are, who they've always been,
- and to have a safe place to do that.
- So I mean, my dream is to create some kind of potentially
- intergenerational housing for low income folks that
- would be older adults and younger adults who still
- face stigma and discrimination.
- We know our youth are more likely to be thrown out
- of their homes, can be more prone to drug
- and alcohol abuse.
- You know, there are still people in our community
- who are at risk, who haven't found a haven't found a safety
- net yet.
- And again, we talk about--
- EVELYN BAILEY: And don't feel safe, period.
- TODD PLANK: And for some of those folks, they need--
- they have still the basic needs.
- They can't, in terms of we think about Maslow's hierarchy
- of needs, and authenticity is at the top.
- But if you don't have your basic security
- needs met, how can you even have time to think
- about those other things?
- So I think about, again, it's a great way
- of creating community.
- And I think, as with the fantastic
- panel that Kelly Clark assembled this year,
- where we had older adults and younger people sharing
- their stories, telling each other their stories,
- there's this commonality there in terms of the issues
- you face early in life and later in life,
- and in terms of feeling safe to come out,
- the vulnerabilities you may experience.
- And so I just think that there's a great opportunity there
- to, like, a synergy.
- If we could have a place where we could have a community
- center, and we could also have affordable housing.
- You know, I think Rochester is largely
- a place where we can create a safe space for people.
- Not every area of Rochester is safe to come out
- or feels safe being out necessarily.
- But I think there's opportunities.
- There's pockets where we could create safe, affordable housing
- and create community in a different way,
- but an important way.
- And that need is going to grow as folks get old.
- EVELYN BAILEY: In your political activism,
- have you ever felt afraid of doing what you were doing,
- either because there was an individual who was perhaps
- overwhelmingly negative or because
- of the sheer daunting number of people
- who had to be worked with and shown a different way?
- Have you have you ever experienced being afraid to do
- what you do?
- TODD PLANK: I can't say that I did--
- I think, having suppressed who I was for so long.
- I also experienced stigma for other reasons.
- Because growing up, I'd been more of an effeminate--
- you know, as a young child, I was more effeminate.
- I was bullied in school.
- Also, because of my religion I was persecuted and harassed.
- So I had already dealt--
- I had already kind of dealt with being different and being
- harassed and persecuted for being different.
- And I'd come through that.
- I faced-- I mean, I was knocking on strangers' doors
- to evangelize.
- So in some ways, having done that, you know, and faced
- people head on who were hostile and didn't want me there,
- I guess when I came out, I'd learned.
- I had already faced that, those attitudes.
- And that was the exception.
- Kind of like we have the disgruntled protesters
- that show up that are a tiny little handful of people
- at the Pride parade.
- But if you look at the overwhelming majority
- of people, they're cheering on the sidelines, right?
- And so I always believed that most people were on our side.
- They just needed to understand the issue and get educated.
- And that if they did, I believed that a majority of people--
- that, you know, it was about hearts and minds.
- And I believe that it was educating,
- but it was also critical that we reached the hearts of people
- about this.
- And that's where our stories were so important
- and why it was so important for people
- to come out and talk about why this issue, how it affected
- them personally, and why they needed
- their coworker or their neighbor or their friends or whomever
- to do something for them, to personalize it.
- And that's when you really had success, when you get people
- to, not just intellectualize the issue,
- but become personally invested because someone
- they love or care about is being treated in an unacceptable way.
- But yeah, no, I don't think that there was--
- negativity stopped me.
- I mean, yeah, I got tired sometimes.
- But I don't think I got overwhelmed about the scale
- of the work because I knew that was
- happening all over the state.
- I mean, that was the great thing about the Pride Agenda
- is you knew there were field organizers
- throughout the state, and it was an organized effort,
- and we had a plan.
- We had a very deliberate intentional plan
- about how we were going to move forward.
- And people can debate what they said was the best plan,
- or if there's other ways we could have done it better,
- but at the end of the day, this was the organization we had
- and this was their approach to this issue
- and they led the way.
- They secured the funding for both the Health and Human
- Services network, which sometimes gets overlooked,
- that funded a lot of agencies like ours.
- They secured the funding for the community services to continue.
- I was just focused on, again, building community, creating
- community, just continuing to reach out.
- And I just trusted that things would--
- there'd be natural progression, and eventually, we'd get there.
- It was just a question of how soon we would get there.
- And it was great to see New York state finally be on board early
- instead of being the last state.
- So that was a real thrill to have New York state
- be one of the early states to pass marriage equality,
- very satisfying.
- EVELYN BAILEY: When you were working
- at the alliance as an outreach worker,
- not you personally, but did you hear stories about police
- harassment, about being entrapped,
- about those kinds of things?
- TODD PLANK: You're asking a leading question, Evelyn.
- So I do remember there was a whole issue of policing
- in the parks, and entrapment of what
- were often very vulnerable, closeted gay men who--
- EVELYN BAILEY: But by the Sheriff?
- By the county Sheriffs, I think.
- TODD PLANK: Like, sting operations?
- Sure, I mean, I wasn't deeply involved
- in those conversations.
- But I know Bill Kelly was very aware of what was going on.
- He was on the board during that time.
- And I do have a story.
- I remember a gentleman coming in when I was at the Gay Alliance
- here, somewhat relatively more recently, right?
- And he had been caught in a park.
- And he was terrified because the policeman
- said that it was going to be reported in, I believe,
- the paper.
- Like, some way he had scared this man terribly
- because he wasn't out.
- I think he might have been married,
- and he didn't know what to do.
- I mean, he was just--
- and so we were able to figure out
- that the policeman was just basically trying to scare him,
- that he wasn't going to follow through on his threat,
- that that wasn't going to happen.
- We were able to make some calls and figure out what went down.
- But I remember just the sheer terror and the huge relief
- when he realized that his life was still
- going to remain intact, when he thought
- it was going to be blown apart, blown apart.
- And you know my heart just ached for that person,
- to see someone so vulnerable and scared, you know?
- And the policeman just being a jerk.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Well, I'm sure you heard many stories,
- not only about harassment, police entrapment,
- but within families, family members being ostracized,
- hospitalizations in which partners
- couldn't visit because families would not allow them to visit.
- Wills that were never executed properly because the spouse
- was not a relative, and the legal protections
- were not there to make sure that--
- TODD PLANK: Right, well, it was those stories
- that we used on the state level, a statewide level,
- to help people understand the human cost to denying
- these couples legal recognition of their relationships.
- Even the fact that you had to go to criminal court
- if you were involved in a domestic violence situation,
- because the perpetrator was not recognized as a spouse.
- And the work that went--
- when Alexander Cobus was here, who I have huge regard for, who
- was the first person to come on board and develop our anti--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Violence.
- TODD PLANK: --anti-violence project.
- I thought it-- I'm trying to think.
- It seems to me, like, I can't remember
- if it had a different name early on,
- but we'll call it the anti-violence project
- with some funding that we got.
- And you know, eventually we got to a place
- where our families could get access to family court.
- But that was an educational process.
- And Alex did a lot of great work in terms
- of moving that forward and giving people in our community,
- for the first time, someone to call,
- someone to talk to, who they felt safe
- and would understand what they were going through,
- and someone who wasn't going to be ignorant and ask
- ridiculous questions.
- Or that, when you already have been traumatized
- and have been abused, you shouldn't
- have to educate someone about your relationship.
- And so the Gay Alliance was able to provide that,
- and then, also, work to educate the police
- force and other first responders about our families.
- And you know, about how do you respond to a domestic violence
- situation where two people of the same gender are involved?
- So that was another, I think, leap,
- in terms of something the Gay Alliance initiated
- that was so needed.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Todd, over the eleven, twelve years,
- you've always lived in Rochester,
- but being actively engaged in the community,
- is there one incident, one experience that looms larger
- than any other in terms of success, in terms of Pride?
- TODD PLANK: Oh, I think I remember,
- and I can't remember the year.
- But when Maggie Brooks made her ridiculous statement
- about with Pat Martinez and Lisa Goldman.
- And that court case, where the court here
- ruled in favor of recognizing their relationship based
- on comity, that New York state recognizes
- legal contracts of other states, of our neighboring
- country of our neighbor Canada, and the whole issue of comity
- and how we were going to have to recognize,
- New York state was going to recognize, those relationships.
- You know, Maggie Brooks is, like, what about the taxpayer?
- It's this ridiculous statement she made.
- And so at very short notice, I remember putting out
- the word that we need to respond to this,
- and organize this rally out in front of the county office
- building.
- We cannot just let that slide.
- That is so unacceptable.
- And the huge number of people who came out for that.
- The (unintelligible) was even reluctant,
- like, you know, we don't want to have
- an embarrassing situation where we do this
- and then people don't show up.
- And it was a matter of a few days.
- I mean, it was the shortest thing I'd ever,
- like, time frame, window.
- And just the number of people in our community who came out
- was just overwhelming.
- And it just showed how connected we were as a community.
- And that people-- we are not going to take this.
- And we really kind of shut Maggie Brooks up after this.
- We didn't hear a whole lot, like,
- like she saw you're not going to get away with saying something
- like that.
- And you're going to be held accountable.
- And there's a very large community out here
- that can turn on a dime, and will, to speak out.
- And I think it sent a larger message to other leaders
- in the community about the fact that you can't just step on us
- and think we're going to roll over.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- TODD PLANK: So I think that was definitely
- a really prideful moment for me.
- Because I was so proud of our community, that they came out.
- It was similar when we did the marriage equality
- march with the umbrellas, where we had all the folks show up
- and we had that huge rally.
- And just those pictures we have of the rainbow of umbrellas
- going over the bridge.
- And we had the rally in the park,
- and there was a phenomenal turnout for that.
- And so just seeing our community show up,
- that's what made me proud.
- Because I felt we've achieved something.
- We have achieved.
- We created a community where people are connected
- and feel safe, that they can come out and make
- a political statement, and speak up and speak out and be
- visible and feel powerful.
- And I loved that.
- To move from a place of vulnerability and fear
- to a place where you feel powerful and you feel proud,
- and you feel you've got this community that you know
- is going to show up with you when it's needed most.
- And the year that we had three busloads--
- when Rochester, Western New York,
- had the largest turnout in Albany,
- percentage-wise, percent to total,
- the number of buses we had was just incredible,
- the number of people that turned out.
- And again, I'm so proud of Western New York.
- And I'm so proud of my community,
- because look what we have accomplished,
- look what we have done.
- And I continue to be really proud of, just,
- all of the amazing organizations that have grown out of the Gay
- Alliance that have grown up.
- Look at Image Out.
- Look at what's AIDS care.
- And all the organizations that persist, like the Rochester Gay
- Men's and Women's Chorus.
- And I mean, for me, it always has
- been about building community.
- And I love, still opening up The Empty Closet
- and see all the groups that are going on
- and what's offered here.
- And the degree of openness, where now we
- have families that just feel like regular, normal families
- living their lives.
- And they don't necessarily have to give as much energy
- to the cause.
- They can just kind of live quote, unquote,
- "normal existence."
- Even though, obviously, there's more work
- to be done, because we don't have DOMA defeated.
- And in many states, they still don't even
- have-- at a federal level, we don't have ENDA passed,
- a gender inclusive ENDA, I want to state for the record.
- So I mean, we're lucky here in New York state
- in many ways in terms of what we've accomplished with SONDA.
- And now with marriage and bullying,
- there's a lot of work to be done to implement policy
- when it comes to what's going on in schools.
- And there is still education that
- needs to be done about what it means, now
- that we have marriage.
- And then of course, we still have to get GENDA passed.
- And even again, you know, after getting the laws passed,
- it's still about humanizing and normalizing this for people.
- And that really is about being out and feeling
- safe to be out and be who you are.
- And we need to continue to make it safe for people
- who don't feel safe.
- That's still the challenge, you know?
- Nora Gates, who was such a wonderful mentor for me
- at the Pride Agenda, she would talk
- about kind of low hanging fruit, that's kind of easy to reach.
- And I think we've done a good job of reaching that.
- But it's, like, there are still people we haven't reached up
- in that tree.
- You know, or maybe we can't see it,
- because they're kind of hidden by the brush.
- And then there's the people who are just high up in the tree.
- That for whatever reason, there is this barrier
- we haven't been able to reach.
- And so I guess I'm always trying to remain mindful of who still
- is disenfranchised, who's still feeling their issues are
- ignored, who don't feel like they have a place at the table
- or they belong.
- And if the challenge is the Gay Alliance
- can't be everything to everyone, even
- though I think people expect that because
- of what the Gay Alliance is.
- But there's still, there's always opportunities for us
- to improve, right?
- To kind of expand our tent pins, so more people
- feel like they have a place under this tent called the Gay
- Alliance of the Genessee Valley.
- And with the small staff that we have,
- and that's also appreciating it from the inside,
- it's remarkable what a small group of people
- have done and continue to do for this community.
- There aren't really words to even acknowledge
- the work and the sacrifices that folks who
- have come through this agency, whether being board members
- or working here or working as volunteers, what people have
- given and continue to give.
- And the huge impact, because of the huge impact we've had,
- people think there's so many more people working here.
- You just assume there must be this huge army of people
- who are making all this happen.
- And then you realize that it's really
- this small nucleus of people who have just
- been so committed to the work.
- And so I'm so excited about this project,
- so that we can really recognize all the people.
- And you're right, because it is about shoulders-- people
- standing on shoulders and on shoulders.
- And this has been a movement that's
- built and grown over time.
- And there's no way I could have done
- what I did without the people that preceded me.
- And now I see other people who I feel
- like are standing on my shoulders
- now, who have kind of hopefully been inspired
- and maybe learned some things, and now have moved on
- and are growing as individuals and contributing
- to our community.
- And they have become activists.
- EVELYN BAILEY: You've kind of identified
- what really the next challenge is for the LGBT community
- and New York.
- And that's GENDA, to bring our transgender brothers
- and sisters into the same level of protection that we have
- and the same rights that we have.
- What would you say to a 19-year-old male who
- is just getting into this work?
- What would you tell him was the most important thing
- that he had to do?
- And I'll give you a couple of sentences.
- TODD PLANK: I'm thinking.
- Well, I'm thinking, you know, I'm thinking--
- I mean, for me, an essential step was find community.
- You can't do this work in isolation,
- if you want to make change happen or create change.
- And so you need community.
- You need to find resources.
- You need to follow your passion and work on issues that you
- care about, that matter to you.
- And it's very difficult to find balance.
- That's always a tension in terms of the amount of time
- you devote to the cause, right, and also self-care
- and having relationships, taking care of your relationships
- and yourself.
- And also remembering that change happens over time
- and not to get discouraged.
- Because that's the challenge is, you know,
- we're not running a sprint.
- We're running a marathon.
- And so you've got to be prepared for that
- and have that mindset going in.
- And I mean, it is about changing minds and hearts.
- I mean, that's really how change happens
- is changing minds and hearts.
- And obviously, getting people engaged on a local level.
- And it's a building process.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- TODD PLANK: And realizing there's
- highs and lows, because there's a lot of variables
- we can't control in terms of when our issues become
- a priority.
- It's complex, and timing can be everything
- in terms of when you get lift for an issue.
- And it doesn't mean--
- we know the issue is important.
- It should happen today.
- Like, you know, GENDA should have been passed way back when
- SONDA was passed, right?
- It should have been GENDA inclusive.
- And people did what they thought made sense then,
- and I'm not going to judge or criticize.
- But now that we've got the bullying measure passed,
- and marriage passed, in some ways,
- I feel like it's a bigger lift now to keep GENDA on the radar,
- because our leaders feel they've already done a lot.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- TODD PLANK: And we're dealing with a minority
- within a minority population, and one where there's still
- a lot of education that needs to happen around what
- it means to be transgender.
- There's just-- that's another leap, the educational process.
- I think it's coming out more in the media.
- We're hearing more stories.
- And I think that that's important.
- I think the transgender movement was in a different place.
- When we talk about the LGBT movement, I think in some ways
- the LGB was, in terms of educating the public
- and getting people to understand the issues--
- EVELYN BAILEY: Visibility.
- TODD PLANK: --and certainly visibility
- is a part of that, the trajectory was just different,
- has been different than it's been for the T. And so I mean,
- the opportunity is that we can have more of a laser focus
- around this issue.
- The challenge is, for a lot of people,
- they were energized around the bullying issue and harassment
- in schools, because all of us could
- relate to when we were young and our own experiences, right?
- EVELYN BAILEY: Right.
- TODD PLANK: So it was, like, we do not want our youth today
- suffering, when we still hear about the suicides,
- and there was the It Gets Better campaign, which is fantastic.
- Again, so many people stepping up to the challenge
- to talk about--
- you're valued, don't let this get you down.
- People care and love about you.
- You can get through this, and you can have a wonderful life.
- And with marriage, those folks, who like,
- that was their passion and their reason
- for being engaged in the fight.
- And now they kind of have that.
- And now they want to go back to having,
- just kind of having a life.
- Because it was exhausting, beating on that drum
- and giving up your time.
- And so it's understandable.
- People sometimes get tired.
- And so how do we-- rekindling, some people, I mean,
- some people need the respite.
- They need to take some time off to take care of themselves.
- And hoping that at some point, we'll
- get folks re-energized for that fight, you know,
- is maybe part of it.
- And I think the younger generation is more--
- is very engaged on this issue.
- And again, because they're coming out now.
- We used to talk about people coming out as lesbian or gay
- on college campuses.
- Now we're talking about people coming out--
- they're coming out as lesbian or gay in school, in high school,
- or maybe earlier.
- And now, we're talking about, on a college level,
- as maybe then coming out as trans.
- You know, we're hearing more about that experience.
- And so I think, you know, mobilizing folks there
- and creating leaders to drive the movement
- and create the momentum for this.
- And I still think it's about telling stories.
- And I would love to see a transgender portraits
- project that's local that has the pictures
- and stories of people and putting faces and names
- to the issue.
- And helping people understand, like when
- I saw that Deviant Bodies project,
- and I was blown away by it.
- I thought that was so ahead of its time, you know?
- And that really is what it's about is reaching people
- on a very human level about these stories
- and what it means.
- Because that's when people have aha moments, when
- they find that point of connection in the story.
- There's a realization that this is also my story in some way.
- Finding that point of connection, whatever
- it was, when you felt the same way, when you felt alone
- or lost or vulnerable or scared or afraid
- if people would find out something about you, that you
- would be rejected, or worse.
- So I think, you know--
- EVELYN BAILEY: So the 19-year-old of today
- has to be wise in not only what they can do, but understand
- what they can't do.
- They have to be passionate.
- They have to have support.
- They have to be energized by something,
- either within themselves or from friends.
- TODD PLANK: Right, you have to have passion, purpose
- and passion.
- You have to feel a sense of purpose about this work,
- and we have to have passion.
- But I wouldn't say, I don't know that I want--
- I don't know that it's our business to tell them
- what they can't do.
- In some ways, I think part of the beauty of being young
- is you don't see limits when you're young.
- You're angry, you see the injustice,
- and you say this is unacceptable and it's wrong,
- and I'm going to do something about it.
- I think it's not our job necessarily
- to squelch that energy.
- Maybe we can help channel it.
- But it's not for us to tell anyone what they can or can't
- do.
- Like, what did anyone tell Harvey Milk,
- what he couldn't do?
- You know what I mean?
- I mean we want to--
- EVELYN BAILEY: But at some point,
- you recognize your limitations.
- TODD PLANK: Right.
- But it's a learning process.
- EVELYN BAILEY: Not necessarily externally, but internally.
- TODD PLANK: Sure, and I think that's
- a learning process for all of us at nineteen,
- whatever we're up to or what our plans are for the future.
- And I think you need to have that opportunity
- to feel the sky's the limit and to just kind
- of go where your passion is.
- Because it's that energy that will sustain them
- in part, that energy.
- And if we start to try to put a lid on it,
- or say what you can or can't do, then I
- think we can sometimes unwittingly squelch that.
- And so I think it's a way of-- it's
- about channeling that energy in a way where they can hopefully
- see results from what they're doing.
- Because we don't want it to be an exercise in frustration,
- where they feel that they're hitting
- their head against the wall.
- Why isn't this working?
- So again, giving them the skills and the tools,
- and Rebecca Newberry's another name