Audio Interview, Wayne Esposito, July 19, 2012

WAYNE ESPOSITO: What a unique prize.

EVELYN BAILEY: I'm here with Wayne Esposito, who

is infamous in the Rochester community

as being one of the very first drag

queens ever to come on the scene.

So Wayne, tell me what it was like to be

among the youngest at a very early time in our community.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: I came out when I was like fourteen years old.

And I remember go-- you know, sneaking out on a bus,

going downtown, because I wanted to go to Jim's Bar.

Jim's Bar was on North Street.

It was formerly Club Marcella.

And it's been several other gay bars and different venues

through the years.

But I remember peeking through the window

and looking at all the female impersonators.

And I'm like, that's what I want to do.

You know what I mean?

I know I'd be good.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you know who those people were?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: I knew them, every one of them.

And if they were still alive, we'd be best friends still.

Some of them are.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

So it's kind of cool.

I tried every disguise to get in the bar.

But Pat Hylan at that door caught me every time.

Do you remember Pat?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: She was swell.

Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Is she still alive?

EVELYN BAILEY: No.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: No.

I didn't think so.

EVELYN BAILEY: She's passed.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah, she was lovely.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: It was an extraordinary time.

It really was.

It was new music.

It was disco.

You had great shows on Broadway.

It was an exciting time.

And yet, it could be very scary because it wasn't accepting.

You know, we-- me, as a female impersonator back then,

I always looked at it as an art form.

You know, I couldn't drill that into people's heads enough.

So I started entering the pageants.

And I started winning them.

I got a huge fan base, which was unbelievable.

I still have a fan base, believe it or not.

EVELYN BAILEY: You do.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: It's funny.

And it was a great time.

It was a sad time, too, because, you know, go down the road,

we--

I lost half my friends to AIDS.

You know, a lot of the girls, they're all gone.

Or they got killed or murdered.

You know?

Not only at Rochester, but Syracuse and Buffalo.

EVELYN BAILEY: Mhm.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know?

EVELYN BAILEY: When you were thirteen--

KEVIN INDOVINO: Sorry.

You were already here.

I thought you got stuck behind me.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Hi.

EVELYN BAILEY: No.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Wayne, how are you?

EVELYN BAILEY: Kevin Indovino.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Good.

How are you?

EVELYN BAILEY: Wayne Esposito.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: When you were thirteen,

what year are we talking about?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Well, I'm fifty now.

So, I--

KEVIN INDOVINO: '74?

EVELYN BAILEY: '74?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

Yeah, that's about right.

Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

1974.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah, I had to be like, I don't know,

I might have been thirteen, fourteen years old.

So I came out very young.

And I was out.

I had very soft features, so I looked like a girl.

I got harassed terribly for it, except in the gay community,

of course, where they embraced me, and they're like, you know,

who's this beautiful young man, you know?

EVELYN BAILEY: Were you harassed at school?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Oh, terrible at school.

Terrible going through Midtown Plaza.

Oh, yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: And would anyone come to your support?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

Usually, the makeup ladies at Formans.

Which I loved them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

And so at thirteen, though, you didn't do drag.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: I didn't have to do drag.

I looked like a girl without no makeup.

God, if that was only true now.

Now, it's under construction.

EVELYN BAILEY: When did you first start publicly--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: My first time in drag, I was sixteen years old.

And I wore-- it was 197--

no, it was--

I was sixteen years old, and me, and my friend,

and Michael Deak and my friend Derek Reber we all went out

to Jim's.

And but I didn't get in because they knew who I was,

even though I was, you know, in a gold sequin

gown with a Cleopatra wig and painted to death.

And so we went to Friar's, and I got in.

But I was so nervous, you know what I mean?

But I snuck in, and I got in, and it was so exciting.

And I remember taking this shirt that my brother bought

for a girlfriend of his in New York.

It was all fringe.

It was fabulous.

But yeah, that was my first time in drag.

EVELYN BAILEY: Did Tony Green--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: My second--

EVELYN BAILEY: --welcome you with open arms?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Tony Green was an amazing person.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Let's put it this way.

I snuck in the Pub and won Miss Pub 1979,

and I still have my trophy.

And I was under-age.

So me and Gary laugh about that now.

EVELYN BAILEY:

WAYNE ESPOSITO: So I still have it.

EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: So every time he sees me,

he's like, you snuck in my bar and won my pageant.

(Laughter)

I said,"Do you love me, honey?"

(Laughter)

EVELYN BAILEY: Oh.

So once your--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: And then Miss Gay Rochester.

I started entering that.

Miss Jim's.

I won that, which was a bar title.

EVELYN BAILEY: When did Miss Gay Rochester begin?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Miss Gay Rochester

is one of the oldest pageants in the country.

EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Now, that has fantastic history.

It goes back to almost 1969.

We could count to 1970, but they were, you know,

a few little bar pageants then.

It was a bar pageant.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: And then Rondretta.

Ducky used to own it then Jim van Allen.

EVELYN BAILEY: Uh-huh.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: --who used to own Jim's, as you know.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: And they did a great job with it.

But we wanted it out of the bar.

So Rondretta Tommy Catone, and Robbie Fox, and Michael Deak

basically, took it out of the bars and made it into an event.

And it went back and forth, into a bar--

you know what I mean--

back into a theater.

EVELYN BAILEY: Mhm.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: And so when those guys passed away--

Robbie, Tommy, and Rondretta who, Rondretta

was one of my dearest friends--

they left it to me and Michael Deak, Torre, and Marcella

at the time.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Now, it's boiled down to--

I've been running it for eighteen years.

EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: And it's me, Aggy Dune--

who is like my little sweetheart.

You know, I still look at her like a little sister.

And she's like the grandmother of drag here.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: But I'm her great grandmother, I guess.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yes, you are.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

Aggy Dune and Michael Deak.

So and you know, I wanted to give it that fresh flair to it.

So I said, come on, Aggy, you know, you're my MC every year.

You know, why don't we just do this together,

you know what I mean?

And we did.

And it's successful.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

This year, you held it at--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: The Harro East.

I always have it--

EVELYN BAILEY: Harro East.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: --at the Harro East.

It's going to be at the Harro East

as long as the Harro East is there.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Because it's a beautiful place.

And have you ever gone?

EVELYN BAILEY: No.

I haven't.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: OK.

It's a melting pot of personalities.

And so you could go back to 1976 and say,

it's a bar pageant to all gay people.

You know what I mean?

A few straight women that wanted to see the female

impersonators.

Now, you have doctors, lawyers, straight kids, gay kids,

club kids, punk kids, all different types of people.

It's amazing.

And it's a lot of fun.

It's everybody out to have a good time.

People in gowns, jeans, t-shirts.

And it's a great night.

I usually get in between 400 and 1,500 people

in attendance that go to this.

EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: So we've really built it up.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: You have.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Aggy Dune's my MC and my partner in it,

and Michael Deak.

So you know, it's a great meeting of the minds, you know?

EVELYN BAILEY: Talk to me about the in-between years,

and not so much the pageants, but where

you were welcome in Rochester to perform.

Because there were-- I know, primarily, it was in bars,

but--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Oh, that's basically--

I did a few shows.

You know, I kind of broke the ice

and did some shows at some of the schools, like Brockport.

You know, I mean, even back then.

Even some of the straight clubs.

I did a show at 747.

2001.

Actually, they were benefits.

I did a benefit for blood research.

And then I did a show of the American Cancer Society.

That was a big thing back then.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know, because it was before AIDS.

EVELYN BAILEY: You did a show at the Stras-- at the planetarium.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Did I?

I don't--

EVELYN BAILEY: Um--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: The Planetarium.

Let me think.

EVELYN BAILEY: You, Liza, and Aggy Dune.

And it was for AIDS, or for HIV, or--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: How long ago was that?

EVELYN BAILEY: Ten years.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: That might have been Kasha Davis.

EVELYN BAILEY: No.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Oh, it was me.

EVELYN BAILEY: It wasn't Kasha.

It was you.

It was Liza.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Do you remember what I'm talking about?

SUBJECT: That memory beginning to fade?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Oh, terrible.

(Laughter)

I remember doing a temp downtown.

EVELYN BAILEY: Really?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Which was--

that was the biggest crowd I ever performed

in front of, 5,000 people.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, I'm going to ask,

when did Liza come about?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: How did she--

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: --involve?

Cabaret.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know, I saw the-- well, The Wizard of Oz,

and I said, god, I love Judy Garland.

You know?

I loved all her music, you know, being a twelve-year-old kid.

Loved The Wizard of Oz.

Then I started buying the albums.

Then I found out she had a daughter.

And in 1972 she came out with Cabaret.

I cried for two weeks when she came to the War Memorial.

My mother had seven kids.

She wasn't taking them to go see Liza Minnelli,

so my sister-in-law did.

So that started it all, basically.

I just loved her, what she stood for.

And you know, she's just a real person.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: I met her several times,

had lunch with her.

EVELYN BAILEY: Hm.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I marched with her once.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: What's that?

KEVIN INDOVINO: I marched with her.

1992 AIDS March on Washington.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Did you?

KEVIN INDOVINO: She was on my arm.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Isn't it amazing?

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

Just a little tiny thing.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Very tiny.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: What I want to get out of this--

when did the drag queens start becoming activist

and, you know, started doing fund raising for a cause?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: When they would ask us to.

You know, let's do-- we got to do something.

You know, here we have this horrible epidemic.

And nobody's doing anything, you know?

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know, they need money.

They need-- you know, that we need to get the word out.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Hold that thought for a second.

Because you know what?

There's another question that comes to mind first.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Sure.

KEVIN INDOVINO: When or why did the drag queens become

aligned with the gay community?

Because not all drag queens are gay.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: It's true.

It's a true statement.

But I come across very few that weren't.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Right.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know what I mean?

So I'm kind of unfamiliar with that.

I've always been friends with all the drag queens,

you know what I mean?

We're like a tight-knit family.

We may scream and yell at each other,

but we all love each other.

EVELYN BAILEY: Mhm.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

It is an interesting long-term relationship.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Oh, yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: But nobody can really pin it down.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Well, no--

KEVIN INDOVINO: Is that because you--

I mean, a lot of gay men would look at drag queens

and kind of step back a little bit.

Because it's that whole stereotype,

all gay men want to be women, which is totally not true.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: It's so funny where

it's gone after all these years, you know?

KEVIN INDOVINO: Right.

But yet, here are these men who are dressing up and performing

like women, who are so ingrained in the gay community.

So it's kind of a double-edged sword.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I don't know if you have any thoughts on that,

or-- you know, was it just always the gay community was

always accepting of it, or--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: I was lucky to be doing a character--

I did Liza, as you know--

I was lucky--

I was fortunate enough to go to straight bars and do shows.

You know, I was the first queen to go to Toronto,

to a different country to do a show.

And it was a straight bar.

So it was a male strip, Chippendale dancer caliber.

And I was the first drag queen to ever perform there.

And I'll never forget leaving that place

with these beautiful men taking me to a party on Yonge Street

after hours.

So it was extraordinary.

It was an extraordinary time.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Who was the drag queen that everybody's

mentioned, the old-timer, one of the original in Rochester?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Freddie Bass.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Freddie Bass.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: He used to melt my butter.

Just to watch him do Shirley Bassey.

All he had to do was stand there in front of a mic

and give them hands, and face, and expression.

And you know, the beautiful clothes, and the feathers.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Just an amazing performer.

The one thing I think Freddie taught me was, always

feel what you sing.

You know what I mean?

Make-- have it mean something to you.

Like, I did a song in 1980.

And now it's 2012.

But if I do that song again, I'm looking at it

at a totally different way of approaching it.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Mhm.

Mhm.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know what I mean?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Because I'm older,

and I have more knowledge.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: So--

EVELYN BAILEY: And your feelings change.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: And your experience.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

Exactly.

Exactly.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Is he still around?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Freddie Bass, yes.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Do we know where he is?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: I do.

I do.

It's hard to get a hold of him because he shifted.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: He works at Shear Breeze--

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: --which is a hair dressing salon down

near the lake.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

KEVIN INDOVINO: We'd like to talk to him at some point.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Oh, yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: (Unintelligible)

WAYNE ESPOSITO: I would love for him to meet with you guys.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know,

I don't want this to be the end of it

because I've got a lot to say.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Oh, yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know, and I got a lot of pictures.

KEVIN INDOVINO: This is just our primary interview with you--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: --so that if we decide, OK, you know, Wayne,

we want to do another interview--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

I'm so glad somebody's doing this.

You know?

We need to.

EVELYN BAILEY: Well, yes.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: We need to preserve this time.

EVELYN BAILEY: That's right.

And--

KEVIN INDOVINO: So back to the original question,

that drag queens then becoming activists,

particularly because of the AIDS epidemic.

If you can just kind of recap for me how that came about,

and why did you feel that it was so important?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Because all of my friends were dying.

You know what I mean?

They were sick.

They were dying.

It was a gay cancer, you know?

Nobody knew what it was.

We were so confused at that time and what it actually

was, and so undereducated, you know, that we

had to educate ourselves.

So I think it was a longing to be educated and take control,

like we did at Stonewall.

(Laughs)

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You get sick of it, you know?

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know, your best--

I've lost half my roommates.

You know, I lived in New York for a year.

They're all gone, every one of them.

EVELYN BAILEY: Mhm.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know, half my friends are gone.

EVELYN BAILEY: Who--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: And what's funny is, sometimes

I often think how my life would be different

if all those people were still alive, because they

were a huge part of my life.

You know what I mean?

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: It would be so different.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

That's interesting to think about that.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

Who invited you to participate in your first fund raising

activity?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Let me think.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you remember?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: My first fundraiser

had to be at Jim's Bar.

More than likely, Ducky, Donald Schultz.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know, he was so great about doing

all that stuff.

And you know, that got us going, and interested, and curious.

And why isn't this being done?

And of course, I'll do it.

There were little organizations.

I can't remember all their names.

There wasn't Lambda.

EVELYN BAILEY: Lambda, Kodak.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Well, it could have been.

EVELYN BAILEY: But HPA was--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know, I got fliers from a lot of the shows

back then.

EVELYN BAILEY: Do you?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: So-- oh, yeah.

I kept everything.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, wow.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: I got Empty Closet articles from 1976.

KEVIN INDOVINO: We need to spend more time with you.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah, yeah.

I got some history saved.

And like I told Aggy and these new girls,

I'm like, save everything.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Oh, yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Save it all.

You got a picture in the paper, clip it out.

You know?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: I was on the cover of the D&C

the year I won.

"Liza lights up the city lights at the convention center."

You know what I mean?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Of course, I'm going to save it.

I'm going to blow it up this big.

(Laughter)

Big old ham bone.

EVELYN BAILEY: Now, Miss Laverne--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Jeff Cost, yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.

How did she come into this?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Jeff Cost came into it

as a columnist for The Empty Closet.

He used to write an article.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: I think it was The Empty Closet

or one of the gay papers.

Yeah.

And he was really good.

And he was pretty straightforward.

You know what I mean?

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: He didn't hold no punches.

He either liked you, or he didn't.

EVELYN BAILEY: Did he perform?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: No.

I don't remember him doing a lot.

Maybe once or twice as, you know, fun and for his readers.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: He was always a good read, though.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know, he really was.

He was a good writer.

Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: Now, Rondretta was one of the most well-known

performers here in Rochester.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Rondretta always told me,

I'm a minority in a minority in a minority.

Because he was black.

He was a drag queen.

And he was gay.

And you know.

And that always-- you know, and like, you got a point,

you know? (Laughs)

EVELYN BAILEY: Uh-huh.

Now, was Freddie Bass the--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Freddie Bass was the first.

Freddie Bass and Michael Deak They were totally--

they were ground-breaking queens.

Michael Deak when she walked into a nightclub in 1975,

she would have an afro wig on this big, big false eyelashes,

a halter top, go-go boots, hot pants, and bracelets, tiara,

big false eyelashes, looking fabulous.

He was the first drag queen to wear pants on stage.

EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

Freddie was glamorous.

Michael was tailored.

You know what I mean?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

And who was Michael?

Michael--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Michael Deak was Miss Vikki.

He did Vikki Carr and Shirley Bassey.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: Wow.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: They were both--

1976, they both competed for Miss Gay Rochester.

And technically, they both won.

But then the owner of the bar at the time, who was Jim van Allen

said, "Let's do audience applause.

Throw out all the scores."

EVELYN BAILEY: Oh.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: So Freddie Bass won, even though, technically,

I believe Michael won.

I wasn't there for that show.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: It was past my bedtime.

(Laughter)

Remember, I'm chicken to those old queens.

(Laughter)

EVELYN BAILEY: Now, the activism piece continued, though.

And--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Oh, you mean among all us performers?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yes.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Oh, my god, yes.

EVELYN BAILEY: And the community,

continues to invite--

I mean, we're not at a point of activism--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Our shows back then were amazing

because it was like once a month, and it was an event,

you know what I mean?

If we did a show, there'd be a line around the block,

you know?

It was something.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Because you only did it once a month.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Once a month.

Thank you.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: It was something new.

Really wasn't new, but it was starting to come--

evolve with disco, and the new sound,

and the new look of fashion, and Studio 54, you know?

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

And you're still used--

or the drag queens are still invited

to participate in fund raising events.

But you are also much more seen as a social pull, you know?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Oh, yeah.

We're big now.

Yeah.

Look at whatever-- the 2012 RuPaul's

Drag Race, our beautiful Pandora Boxx, who

is an ex-Miss Rochester.

It's come such a long way, you know?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Who would have ever thought, if I was-- you

know, in 1980, would I think I'd see something gay on TV?

Not likely.

And if it was, it was very understated.

EVELYN BAILEY: Mhm.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know, so--

EVELYN BAILEY: Were there any bars in the city

where you were not welcome?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: I got kicked out of the Glass Onion

on Monroe Avenue.

(Laughs) But then again, I was in a silver sequin gown

and a 12-foot--

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

I was gonna say.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: --white turkey feather boa.

(Laughter)

KEVIN INDOVINO: Not quite the dress code for the Glass Onion.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Thank you.

Do you remember that place?

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yes.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Do your remember (unintelligible)

across the street?

KEVIN INDOVINO: I think so.

I don't think I ever went to it.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

I ended up there.

(Laughter)

EVELYN BAILEY: Oh.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Oh, my.

Here's an interesting question.

How did your performance or your dragness-- (laughs)

--help you with your coming out and your growth

as a gay person?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: That's a good question.

I think it was--

once again, I go back to the character that I did,

you know what I mean?

I studied her, you know what I mean?

I knew what she stood for.

She was cool with gay people.

She surrounded herself by gay people.

KEVIN INDOVINO: She married one.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: They basically made her.

She married one, for god's sake.

Two of them.

Maybe three.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Right.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: So I don't know.

And the people that I surrounded-- like my friends--

Michael Deak and Freddie Bass.

They were-- I looked up to them.

You know, they were the glamorous queens.

Nobody messed with them.

And they were talented.

You know, they were all good.

EVELYN BAILEY: Mhm.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know, like today.

These kids, they're all good.

They really are.

KEVIN INDOVINO: The bar keeps getting raised.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: The what?

KEVIN INDOVINO: The bar keeps getting raised.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Oh, yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Got a question?

EVELYN BAILEY: Go ahead.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, I had one muddling,

but I wasn't going with it yet.

So if you've got one.

EVELYN BAILEY: Were you ever personally afraid

to appear anywhere?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: No.

No.

I can honestly say, no.

I was always excited, you know what I mean?

If I don't win these people over--

you know, I went to straight bars

and performed for their lip synch.

You know what I mean?

Like the Red Creek, which was such a huge event.

They had a lip synch contest.

You know, there'd be one thousand people

in the audience.

Here I'm doing a thirteen-minute Liza Minnelli number

in a straight bar in 1980, '79.

Come on.

(Laughs) And won.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

OK.

EVELYN BAILEY: Were you ever arrested--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: No.

EVELYN BAILEY: --in drag?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: But I know people that were.

I want to tell you a story.

Michael, you're going to kill me, but I'm telling it to 'em.

Picture it.

1972.

Ricky Schaefer.

They're all in drag, mind you, on Main Street

in front of the Red Carpet, which was another gay bar.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Mhm.

EVELYN BAILEY: Right.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Michael Deak Miss Vicky.

Ricky Schaefer who was Miss Impressed and Rick Poli. who

was just in drag.

Cop roles up.

"What's your name?"

Because you couldn't be on the street in drag, basically.

You had to wear three pair--

three man's articles--

EVELYN BAILEY: Of clothing?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: --of clothing.

Or you would be arrested.

You would go downtown.

So the cops said, "What's your name?"

And Rick Poli goes, "I'm Rick Poli."

And he's like, "OK.

What's your name", to Ricky Schaefer.

He's like,"My name is Rick Schaefer."

"What's your name?"

And Michael Deak. because he's a smart mouth, said, "Lana Dune!"

And he's like, "OK, smart cookie.

Get back in the paddy wagon.

You're going to jail."

(Laughs)

So yeah.

So he got arrested there.

EVELYN BAILEY: How did they check out whether or not

you had the three articles of clothing?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: I think they-- when they took you downtown,

more than likely, when they, you know--

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: --disrobed you, you know?

I remember one of my friends was in jail.

And they wanted to take off his sculptured nails.

You know, we just got done doing a pageant in Syracuse

because they thought it would be a weapon.

He was like, "Good luck.

They cost me $50, but you can try.

You got a saw?"

(Laughter)

EVELYN BAILEY: What were the three articles of clothing

that you needed?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: That was kind of hard.

Underwear, you know?

EVELYN BAILEY: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: What else did we do?

Depends on the outfit, you know what I mean?

If you were wearing palazzo pants or something,

you get away with some other things.

Under gear usually.

EVELYN BAILEY: OK.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

Some type of under gear.

EVELYN BAILEY: How much--

WAYNE ESPOSITO: How silly was that?

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Wasn't that kind of silly?

EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

Who ever thought of that?

EVELYN BAILEY: How much harassment did you have

to endure here in Rochester?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: I got chased many times in four inch heels

and outran them many times.

As an underage kid in front of the gay bars, like Jim's disco,

and Friar's, you know?

You got two busy, main streets.

You know, I was sixteen years old.

I wanted to hang out with--

I wanted to be around the gay people listening to disco.

EVELYN BAILEY: Mhm.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: You know, so-- and I was all

rocked out myself, you know?

And yeah.

Straight guys would pull over, and get out of their car,

and punch you in the face.

And yeah, I got chased with a gun once.

I ran-- though, at the time, it was the Roman, the sauna.

EVELYN BAILEY: Oh, yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Which was a bath--

I think it's Rochester Spa and Body Club now.

EVELYN BAILEY: No.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Oh.

EVELYN BAILEY: That was a different place.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Well, let's put it this way.

If you ever look up that stairway

and there's like 50 stairs, I didn't hit one of them.

I flew up those stairs.

Yeah, got chased with a gun.

We used to get chased out of Washington Square Park

because that was like--

I guess it was a cruisey area.

We went there to meet.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

WAYNE ESPOSITO: Yeah.

I got punched faced--

I got knocked in the face quite a few times.

Yeah, just walking down the street.

Total stranger.

Faggot, boom.

Yeah.

EVELYN BAILEY: How did you survive?

WAYNE ESPOSITO: It was scary.

It was scary.

That part of it scared me.

Yeah.

Because it's like, you know, god, I want to go-- you know,

I want to go to Jim's, but I'm afraid to go down Main Street.

And you know, should I cut down near the Holiday Inn

and take the back way to take Mortimer Street over

to Clinton?

And you know what I mean?

But you know, then we started meeting people, all the other--

all my young friends, who were doing the same thing I was,

hanging in front of the bars because we

were too young to get in them.

We would meet, and we would go together.

So that kept us kind of safe.

You know, you're always better in a pack--