Green Thursday, radio program, June 24, 1973, source recording

  • BRUCE JEWELL: How long have you been in the gay liberation
  • movement?
  • FRANK KAMENY: About twelve or thirteen years.
  • Since 1961.
  • There's no sharp date.
  • But since roughly that time.
  • I founded the Mattachine Society of Washington the end of 1961,
  • and was getting into the movement
  • somewhat prior to that.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: That seems to be an unusually long time.
  • You're an early gay liberationist.
  • Was there any reason that you entered into the movement
  • so early?
  • FRANK KAMENY: Well, by a process of personal evolution.
  • I lost a government job at the very end of 1957
  • on the basis solely of my homosexuality.
  • And I was the first person to fight
  • back on the basic issues all the way up to the Supreme Court.
  • And the court chose not to take my case in March of 1961.
  • And at that point, I felt I had gone
  • as far as I could go as an individual working
  • as an individual.
  • I had been in touch with what there
  • was of the movement at that time, a few organizations.
  • And I wrote my own brief for the Supreme Court,
  • and was forced in doing that to sit down and formulate
  • my ideas.
  • And I've been faced with the problems.
  • So I decided the time has come to move forward
  • as an individual through an organization.
  • So I have my own ideas of where the movement should go
  • and where it hadn't been going up to that point
  • that it should go.
  • And so, I found the Mattachine Society of Washington,
  • and proceeded to set the movement at that time
  • off on somewhat different directions
  • from where it had been.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Could you tell me where it had been
  • and where you believe it should go?
  • FRANK KAMENY: The second part of your question
  • skips a gap of over ten years.
  • But at that time, keep in mind this is back in 1961 now,
  • the movement was a-- and I say this non-critically and
  • non-judgmentally, because the whole situation was very, very
  • different at that time.
  • But the movement was a rather bland, conservative,
  • non-assertive kind of movement, interested in research
  • in homosexuality in attempting by a process of education
  • to change public attitudes.
  • Such words as activism, and militancy, and the like
  • were considered very dirty words in the movement at that time.
  • I founded the Mattachine Society of Washington
  • as the first explicitly activist, explicitly
  • civil liberties organization in the movement.
  • And it proceeded to set the pace for the whole movement
  • for some years thereafter, and other organizations followed.
  • Now, since then of course, we've gone
  • through another whole phase.
  • And 1969 was the emergence of yet another phase.
  • And there have been perhaps two stages within that.
  • Any movement that isn't dying evolves and goes
  • through stages, and ours has over the twenty years
  • that the gay liberation movement in one form or another
  • has existed.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: You mentioned earlier
  • that you'd done some of your own legal work
  • in the Supreme Court case.
  • Have you continued to use this legal knowledge
  • on behalf of gay people and the gay movement?
  • FRANK KAMENY: Yes.
  • And more, I suppose by evolution than by original intent,
  • I've ended up becoming the authority
  • in the country on relationships between the homosexual citizen
  • and the federal government, specifically
  • in the areas of civil service employment, the armed services,
  • and security clearances, but also
  • in other areas of law that involve the homosexual.
  • I'm active, I'm consulted by attorneys across the country.
  • I serve as counsel at the administrative level,
  • that is below the court level, in a large number of cases.
  • And in general, function that way.
  • A lot of people have suggested that I
  • ought to go to law school and become admitted to the Bar.
  • But this would put a crimp into my style,
  • because I don't have to observe the amenities that lawyers do.
  • I don't have to observe the canons of legal ethics.
  • I can advertise for cases and solicit for them,
  • and create them, in fact.
  • And I don't have to be polite to my adversary lawyers, who
  • are anti-gay, and things of that sort that ordinary lawyers do.
  • And I have a lot of degrees of freedom.
  • One established and prestigious civil liberties organization,
  • non-gay, but friends of ours that I've worked with,
  • have referred to me as their lawyer without portfolio,
  • and have pledged themselves to defend me
  • if I ever get prosecuted for practicing law
  • without a license.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: What current actions are pending
  • in the Washington DC area?
  • And what things are you planning for the future?
  • FRANK KAMENY: Well, there are a number of things.
  • I don't know that I can give a complete listing at this point,
  • or an exhaustive one.
  • We expect momentarily a change in Federal Civil Service
  • Commission policy on homosexuals.
  • Don't know quite what the change will be,
  • but one is in the works.
  • We forced a meeting on the chairman of the commission
  • last August, and things have moved slowly,
  • but moved from there.
  • We have a number of security cases going, security clearance
  • cases, in Washington and elsewhere,
  • and have the Defense Department somewhat beleaguered on that.
  • A major decision is due to come down on that shortly.
  • And depending on which way it goes,
  • it will affect that whole situation.
  • Locally, we are attempting to-- we have some civil rights
  • legislation before our city council,
  • banning discrimination against homosexuals
  • in private and public employment,
  • housings, and rentals, and real estate, public accommodations,
  • and so on.
  • And we have every expectation that that
  • will pass, and pass rather easily, later on this summer.
  • There are a number of other things going along
  • as they arise in a number of other related and collateral
  • areas.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: You, among some others,
  • have taken a very-- a leading role
  • in dealing with the American Psychiatric Association.
  • Could you tell me why you think dealing with the American
  • Psychiatric Association, or a psychiatrist,
  • is important to the gay movement?
  • And secondly, what types of goals do you have in mind?
  • FRANK KAMENY: Society finds ways of putting down people
  • that it considers unpopular.
  • And one of the best ways of doing that
  • is to pin nasty name tags on them.
  • And the name tags vary from ear to ear,
  • depending on what's important to people.
  • In the past, if they didn't like you,
  • they called you sinful or a heretic.
  • Well, the high priests of past ages
  • have been replaced as authority figures in our society
  • nowadays, for better or for worse,
  • by the high priests of the 20th century, the psychiatrists.
  • And so now if they don't like you and if you're unpopular,
  • they call you sick, and that's exactly what
  • the psychiatrists have done.
  • And this allegation that homosexuality
  • is a sickness, which has absolutely no scientific basis
  • at all, has served to maintain and reinforce
  • popular prejudice.
  • And so, I feel it's necessary before we can really
  • achieve full personhood, full citizenship,
  • to get rid of the allegation that we are sick, or ill,
  • or mentally disturbed, or whatever you want to call it.
  • And so, we started approaching the psychiatrists,
  • oh, close to ten years ago.
  • And it's been a long, slow job.
  • We've had to invade their meetings.
  • On one occasion, I had to seize the microphone
  • and lay down the law to them.
  • But we're bringing them around.
  • And it looks now as if there will
  • be changes in the next number of months to a year or so,
  • hopefully, in their official categorization
  • of homosexuality.
  • And once, we're removed from the characterization of being sick,
  • a great many of the weapons of the bigots
  • will have been taken from their hands.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: You recently attended
  • the American Psychiatric Convention in Honolulu.
  • Would you tell me something about what
  • happened at the convention, your experiences there?
  • And what do you think came out of that particular convention?
  • FRANK KAMENY: It was a busy and productive week.
  • I came back very well satisfied, even
  • though we didn't come back with anything actually
  • in our pockets at that point.
  • The main formal feature of the meeting within this context
  • was a special morning session--
  • all morning session dealing with the question
  • of whether homosexuality should continue
  • to be included in the psychiatric nomenclature
  • in their diagnostic manual.
  • Their diagnostic manual is their sickness book.
  • If you're in it, you're sick.
  • If you're removed from it, you've been miraculously cured.
  • And we are seeking to get ourselves removed from it,
  • so that we can be "cured" in quotation marks, "cured en
  • masse" by semantics, instead of individually by therapy.
  • And the special session consisted of six people:
  • two psychiatrists who were very much in favor of our views,
  • and positions, and aims; two of the most prominent
  • of our opponents, Dr. Socarides and Dr. Bieber;
  • and one of our own people, Ronald Gold, from the Gay
  • Activist Alliance of New York.
  • I was invited to be Chief Discussant
  • to discuss the papers as a group after they'd been presented.
  • It went off very well.
  • The session was probably the best attended
  • of any during that whole meeting.
  • And Doctor Bieber and Socarides, who had--Doctors Bieber
  • and Socarides who had sort of reigned supreme in this area
  • for many, many years, were subjected to, for them I think,
  • the rather unaccustomed experience of being booed
  • and jeered and derided by their colleagues when they presented
  • their views.
  • They were very, very much on the defensive.
  • And I've interacted with both of them
  • on a number of occasions in the past.
  • And it was the first time I've seen them so.
  • They made a number of concessions even there.
  • However, they are just two individuals.
  • And more important, are the formal things that came out.
  • We have a number of resolutions at various stages
  • of processing now in the American Psychiatric
  • Association.
  • The internal structure of that association is enormously
  • complex, wheels within wheels within wheels
  • with many, many different levels--
  • boards of trustees, and the assembly of district branches
  • of various committees, and so on and so forth.
  • And in process are resolutions by the American Psychiatric
  • Association affirming civil rights for homosexuals
  • in a variety of specified ways, indicating
  • that the use that the government has
  • put to the listing in their manual
  • is an abuse, not a proper use in placing special burdens
  • on homosexuals to prove their stability,
  • or their judgment, or their reliability.
  • And most important of all, proposals
  • which are moving through the APA's machinery
  • to drastically modify the listings in this connection
  • in their manual.
  • And the net effect will be to remove homosexuality
  • from their diagnostic manual, which will mean that
  • to the extent that the American Psychiatric Association is
  • authoritative, and I guess in actual practice
  • it is, even if nobody's appointed it as such,
  • we will have been officially declared healthy.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: There was a caucus, I believe,
  • of gay psychiatrists at this convention.
  • Could you tell me something about this caucus?
  • And if they have any plans to do anything in the future?
  • FRANK KAMENY: This is one facet of a phenomenon
  • that, well, it has been long in existence
  • and is appearing more visibly in many, many, many different
  • professions.
  • 10 percent of our general population, of course,
  • in all areas is gay.
  • And so, you would expect, even if you didn't know in advance
  • or hadn't taken a survey or checked it out,
  • that 10 percent of any particular profession
  • would be gay.
  • And so, of course, there are 10 percent of all lawyers,
  • of all doctors, you name it, all teachers, anything else,
  • are homosexual.
  • And so, 10 percent of psychiatrists are gay.
  • Now, in general in the past, gay professionals
  • have tended to remain very, very, very much covert,
  • in the closet as we express it, in some professions
  • more so than in others.
  • But certainly in the past, for rather good reason, a law
  • student, for example, known to be gay
  • could reasonably well count on not getting admitted to the Bar
  • when he finished his schooling.
  • Things of that sort.
  • This is beginning to change.
  • And so, we now have organizations
  • of gay law students, gay psychologists, gay doctors,
  • and others.
  • And a professional accreditation board,
  • whether it's from inside or outside the profession,
  • is a lot less likely to take on a mass group
  • to discredit than an individual.
  • You can pick off an individual easily,
  • but you can't pick off 10 percent of a law school class.
  • That kind of thing.
  • The psychiatrists have their gay people as well.
  • They have tended to be rather more covert
  • than some other professions.
  • And for many years, there has been
  • what has been somewhat facetiously called the GayPA.
  • Simply a group of-- nothing formal, nothing
  • organized at all.
  • Simply a group of gay psychiatrists
  • who knew each other and who would get together
  • quite informally, usually on a purely social basis,
  • at the annual meetings of the American Psychiatric
  • Association, which occur in one part or another of a country
  • every May.
  • This time, there was a particularly large meeting
  • of the GayPA.
  • A few people who are non-gay, but not unsympathetic,
  • came to the meeting a little bit to the dismay, I think,
  • of some of the gay psychiatrists.
  • And I must confess that Ron Gold and I brought them there.
  • And a great deal of pressure was put
  • on them, that is on the gay psychiatrists,
  • to begin to come out and declare themselves.
  • Most of them still are not.
  • It's going to be another few years.
  • But if you're a little bit sensitive to the nuances,
  • you can see movement there.
  • A few of them are beginning to.
  • And I think that there will be a slow, but definite movement
  • in that direction in the next few years,
  • because psychiatrists are particularly oppressed.
  • I know at last year's meeting, in 1972 in Dallas,
  • we had a panel discussion in which I participated along
  • with my colleague Barbara Gittings as representatives
  • of the gay community.
  • A panel on Psychiatry, Friend or Foe of Homosexuals?
  • And one of the people we had on the panel
  • was a gay psychiatrist who, because
  • of the attitudes of his own profession,
  • felt obliged to appear wearing a full head mask,
  • so that he was completely unidentifiable.
  • And it may sound rather overly dramatic,
  • but it served very, very effectively
  • to demonstrate exactly what the homosexual psychiatrist goes
  • through in terms of the attitudes of his own profession
  • toward him.
  • And I think he made his point, and made it very, very well.
  • So there again, you have a movement there
  • to try to do something ultimately
  • from inside the profession, as well as merely from outside it.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Dr. Kameny, you've been,
  • as you mentioned earlier, in the movement for over ten years.
  • I'd be interested in knowing what kind
  • of changes in attitudes you've seen, first of all,
  • by homosexuals towards other homosexuals
  • and towards themselves.
  • And secondly, what kind of changes
  • you've seen in attitudes on the part of heterosexual people
  • towards homosexuals, and perhaps vice versa.
  • FRANK KAMENY: Well, the changes, of course, have been enormous.
  • And answering that question adequately
  • could easily take us another hour.
  • So any answers I give are going to have
  • to be somewhat superficial and necessarily inadequate
  • from any total viewpoint.
  • There's been, of course, an enormous amount of change.
  • When I joined the movement and right on up into the late '60s,
  • it was a rather small movement, which we used to lament.
  • When I founded the Mattachine Society of Washington,
  • there were five or six organizations in the country.
  • I could write to the whole movement after dinner,
  • and have the rest of the evening free to do other things.
  • By the late sixties, there was a tenfold increase, fifty
  • or sixty such groups.
  • But we were still lamenting with good and valid cause
  • that it was not a grassroots movement.
  • That it was not a popular movement.
  • That it still was very, very small.
  • People had become a lot more militant.
  • I remember when I organized the first picketing demonstration
  • by homosexual's in 1965.
  • That was a period when picketing was
  • the radical mode of expression of dissent par excellence.
  • And it was a rare day indeed when
  • you had as few as three groups picketing
  • in front of the White House.
  • Well, for gay people to picket was considered so extraordinary
  • that when a little band of ten frightened gay people marched
  • across Pennsylvania Avenue and took up a place in front
  • of the White House, we got, not only national,
  • but international TV coverage.
  • And that has expanded now, so that we
  • hope to have ten thousand, or perhaps,
  • several times that many marching down 7th Avenue today.
  • But at that time, as I said earlier,
  • words like militancy and activism
  • were really considered dirty words.
  • And they were considered radical in the bad and derogatory sense
  • of radical.
  • But people were beginning to push.
  • And the movement sort of turned a corner in June of 1969,
  • when the first gay riot in history occurred in New York.
  • And there again, whatever one may on a subjective basis
  • considered to be the merits or demerits
  • of a riot as an expression of dissent,
  • the message expressed was very, very clear.
  • And that is, that we've been pushed around
  • for three thousand years and we're fed up with it.
  • And we're starting to push back.
  • And if we don't get decent treatment and get it now,
  • there's going to be a lot more pushing back.
  • And that sort of changed the whole tone of the movement.
  • It pumped an enormous amount of energy,
  • and vigor, and enthusiasm into it.
  • It converted it very much from a small movement, the type
  • I described, to as close as it's come thus far to being
  • a mass grassroots movement.
  • So that, for example, a year and a half
  • ago when we had a mailing to all the groups
  • that we could find the names of in the country,
  • the mailing consisted of five to six hundred groups.
  • Or in other words, another tenfold
  • increase in the next year and a half,
  • and it's going up rapidly beyond that.
  • That got gay liberation into the news,
  • and homosexuality into the news.
  • The subject is discussed now.
  • And it's being-- approaches to it are being reconsidered
  • in many, many different ways.
  • Laws are changing and so on, so that there
  • is a great deal of very, very rapid change going on.
  • Perhaps one of the most important things
  • is the movement of homosexuals into politics.
  • And as I see it in somewhat long range terms,
  • but not very long range, that perhaps
  • is the wave or one of the waves of the future.
  • We started going into politics back in the middle sixties.
  • We would have done it in Washington earlier than that,
  • because we considered it the early sixties,
  • but Washington, at that time, had no politics at all
  • for us to go into.
  • There were no local politics.
  • And we had less leverage on national politics
  • than anybody else in the country.
  • So we didn't.
  • But groups in San Francisco began to,
  • in the middle sixties, secondhand
  • by approaching candidates running for office,
  • inviting them to a public forums,
  • sending out questionnaires to them, and so on.
  • And getting their responses, feeding those back
  • into the gay community to guide voting.
  • That was sort of going into things
  • second hand on the coattails of those politicians
  • who offered their coattails.
  • In early 1971, when for the first time
  • we had a congressional election in the District of Columbia,
  • some people in the gay community asked me to run,
  • and I did as the first publicly declared homosexual ever
  • to run for public office.
  • I didn't expect to win.
  • So there were no tears when I lost.
  • I did accomplish what I intended to, which
  • was impact on the governmental political structure, impact
  • on the general community, and perhaps most importantly,
  • impact on my own community to start politicizing them.
  • And so candidates in increasing numbers, openly gay candidates,
  • are now running for office over the country.
  • We had five people elected to the Democratic National
  • Convention, people running here in New York for city council,
  • and other offices.
  • I understand someone will be running
  • for Congress from one district here in the city later
  • on this year.
  • Elsewhere in the country.
  • In many instances, as is to be expected, people don't win.
  • They haven't.
  • That will change too gradually.
  • People will continue to run.
  • And I think, ultimately, we'll get in.
  • I think this is extremely important, because it
  • has to be realized that for--
  • and we're going through the same process
  • that other minorities have gone through along these lines--
  • this realization that for us, as homosexuals,
  • this is our society quite as much
  • as it is that of the heterosexuals,
  • and our country, and our government.
  • And they are our political officers.
  • And we are going to take what is ours.
  • And the way to take it in this context is to run for office,
  • and win and get in there.
  • And that's exactly what we're doing.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: You mentioned the first march
  • of about ten people.
  • Today, there's a march expected to be at least ten thousand.
  • How does that make you feel?
  • FRANK KAMENY: Well, very, very enthusiastic.
  • Very proud.
  • Well, that's about all I can say.
  • Very pleased.
  • I feel that a process that I helped set into motion
  • is now going on, has taken on a life of its own
  • very much as it should.
  • And (pause) well, very well satisfied.
  • That's all I can say.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you very much, Dr. Kameny.
  • (pause in recording)
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Can I ask you what you think of the gay parade
  • here?
  • SUBJECT 1: Love it.
  • Love it.
  • I'm with it.
  • And so is he.
  • SUBJECT 2: Beautiful.
  • Beautiful.
  • SUBJECT 1: Beautiful.
  • We can make it.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: How do you feel about the gay parade?
  • SUBJECT 3: I think they should have the right
  • to march and be as people and regarded as such,
  • no matter what the proclivity is.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you very much.
  • (pause in recording)
  • BRUCE JEWELL: How do you like the parade?
  • SUBJECT 4: Pretty good.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you.
  • How do you like the parade?
  • SUBJECT 5: I think it's nice.
  • Glad to see it so big.
  • We'll be in it soon.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Good, thank you.
  • How do you like the parade?
  • SUBJECT 6: I love it.
  • SUBJECT 7: Fantastic.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: What do you think of the parade?
  • SUBJECT 8: I think it's fascinating.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you.
  • SUBJECT 9: Terrific.
  • SUBJECT 10: Wonderful.
  • Yeah, really good.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: What do you think of the parade?
  • Great.
  • Thank you.
  • How do you like the parade?
  • SUBJECT 11: I love it.
  • SUBJECT 12: It's fine.
  • SUBJECT 13: Great.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you.
  • CROWD: (chanting) Stop racist attacks against gay prisoners.
  • Stop racist attacks against gay prisoners.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: How do you like the march?
  • SUBJECT 14: I love it.
  • It's a lot of fun.
  • SUBJECT 15: Very, very good.
  • Enjoying it, sir.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you.
  • How do you like the parade?
  • SUBJECT 16: Beautiful.
  • SUBJECT 17: This is ridiculous.
  • SUBJECT 18: (laughs) Funny.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: How do you like the parade?
  • SUBJECT 19: Very good.
  • Different.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you.
  • Your sign says you're from the Gay Teachers Caucus.
  • I haven't heard of that.
  • What is it?
  • SUBJECT 20: It's an organization of gay teachers
  • within the National Education Association.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Is it located here, in New York?
  • SUBJECT 20: No, it's based in Washington DC.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Very good.
  • Glad to hear it.
  • How do you like the parade?
  • SUBJECT 20: It's really nice.
  • It's really big.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you.
  • You're a Marshal here.
  • How many people do you estimate are at this parade?
  • MARSHAL: I would estimate, now, this the fourth one I'm
  • with, I would estimate this one's
  • got to have at least eight thousand.
  • Eight to ten thousand.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you very much.
  • I see you are selling the Fag Rag, the Boston Newspaper.
  • You must be from Boston?
  • SUBJECT 21: Yes, sir.
  • Yes.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: How do you like the parade?
  • SUBJECT 21: Oh, I think it's great.
  • I'm really impressed so far anyway.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: You have any idea how long it is?
  • SUBJECT 21: I understand thirty-one blocks long.
  • It stretches to about thirty-one blocks.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thirty-one blocks.
  • Thank you very much.
  • How do you like the parade?
  • Wait.
  • (pause in recording)
  • SUBJECT 22: (singing) Mussolini Fascist (unintelligible)
  • Christianity!
  • There is Christianity!
  • Viva Mussolini!
  • Viva Bianchi!
  • Viva Bianchi!
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you, sir.
  • CROWD: (singing) (unintelligible)
  • when the gays go marching in. (unintelligible)
  • Oh, when the gays go marching in.
  • Oh, I want to be with that number.
  • When the gays go marching in.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Do it for me again.
  • CROWD: (chanting) Radical femmes off the butch.
  • Radical femmes off the butch.
  • Radical femmes off the butch.
  • (bagpipe playing)
  • CROWD: (chanting) Back must stay oppression (unintelligible)--
  • BRUCE JEWELL: I'm with Madeline Davis of Buffalo.
  • And she's on the sidelines here watching the parade.
  • What do you think of it, Madeline?
  • MADELINE DAVIS: Well, it's the first time
  • I've ever had a chance to really watch the parade.
  • I've usually marched in it.
  • And this time, because I have to be at the square early,
  • I get a chance to stand by and watch it.
  • It's gorgeous.
  • It's, oh, wow!
  • It's just so beautiful.
  • I never saw so many people.
  • I'm really impressed.
  • I'm really impressed with my own people.
  • They're gorgeous.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you very much.
  • I notice your license plate is Gay1.
  • How did you get that?
  • SUBJECT 23: I just applied for a special plate,
  • as you can do in the state of Vermont.
  • You pay five dollars extra.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: What excuse did you
  • give them for wanting those particular initials?
  • SUBJECT 23: I told them that I had a seven-year-old son, which
  • I don't, whose name is Gaylord and who wanted his nickname
  • on the plate.
  • I got an answer back that Gay was already taken,
  • which may or may not be the case.
  • So I wrote back and said, my son was so disappointed
  • that he came up with a scheme that they could give us
  • Gay number one, or number two, or any gays they
  • had just so we got a Gay.
  • So we got Gay number one.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: How about a few honks from Gay number one here?
  • (car horn honking)
  • SUBJECT 24: Before the gay plates,
  • I had plates that said peace.
  • But I get much more response on the highways from gay
  • than I ever got from peace.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you.
  • What do you think of the parade?
  • SUBJECT 25: It's excellent.
  • Yeah.
  • I think it's pretty good.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Very good to hear.
  • Enjoying it?
  • SUBJECT 25: Sure.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you.
  • SUBJECT 26: (singing) Come on, mama.
  • Come on, hon.
  • Let me play with your hot cross buns.
  • Well, come on, mama!
  • Come on, hon!
  • Say, let me play with your hot cross buns!
  • Come on.
  • Come on. (unintelligible) Do it, do it darling!
  • BRUCE JEWELL: I see by your sign you're with the Black Lesbian
  • Caucus.
  • SUBJECT 27: Yes, I am.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Could you tell me something about that?
  • SUBJECT 27: It's a group in New York.
  • We meet at the firehouse every Sunday.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Is it a fairly new group?
  • SUBJECT 27: No, it's been going on-- you might say fairly new.
  • It's been going on like about five or six months now.
  • And we meet for like two or three hours every week.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: How do you feel being at a parade like this?
  • SUBJECT 27: It's great.
  • It's great, because like I'm triply
  • oppressed for my blackness, as a woman, and as a lesbian.
  • So it's really great.
  • There's not too many of us out here, but we're here, you know,
  • and that's a good thing.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you very much.
  • CROWD: (chanting) So will we fight back!
  • Smash gay oppression!
  • So will we fight back!
  • Smash gay oppression!
  • So will we fight back!
  • Smash gay oppression!
  • So will we fight back!
  • Smash gay oppression!
  • BRUCE JEWELL: We are now entering the Washington Square
  • here, in New York City.
  • The crowds are filling out.
  • I'll have some more things later.
  • (applause)
  • SUBJECT 28: OK.
  • Listen to this loud and clear.
  • For the first time in four years,
  • we have the mothers and fathers of the gay community marching.
  • A standing ovation to our moms and dads.
  • (cheering)
  • SUBJECT 28: Standing ovation for moms and dads!
  • (applause)
  • (whistling)
  • BRUCE JEWELL: What's your reaction to the march?
  • SUBJECT 29: I think it's fantastic.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Have you ever been on one before?
  • SUBJECT 29: Never.
  • Never before.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: From New York?
  • SUBJECT 29: From Long Island.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: How about you?
  • SUBJECT 30: I think it's great, really is.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: What do you like about it in particular?
  • SUBJECT 30: The people.
  • The gay people.
  • That's what's nice.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Have you been on a march before?
  • SUBJECT 30: Nope.
  • First one.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you very much.
  • What's your reaction to this gathering?
  • SUBJECT 31: It's wild.
  • SUBJECT 32: Come on.
  • There are more of you than that!
  • Again!
  • CROWD: Gay power!
  • SUBJECT 33: --it's the first time I've been able to do--
  • SUBJECT 34: --I have never in my life
  • been so happy to see every single time she
  • walks into any room on the (unintelligible).
  • I'm sorry.
  • (live instrumental music)
  • SUBJECT 35: Yeah, C sharp (unintelligible)
  • SUBJECT 36: --once said something
  • on national television that has stayed close to my heart
  • ever since I heard it.
  • And every time I think of it, I think
  • of you looking at me like that.
  • She once said to David Susskind, "Screw you."
  • When I first realized that I was a lesbian,
  • I picked up a book in the library.
  • And the book said that all lesbians love the color green
  • and they dress like men.
  • So I came to New York looking for my people, dressed
  • like a man.
  • And I found out that those books were wrong.
  • And she has vowed to change that misinformation,
  • to change the information that we read in books, so
  • that young people will grow up learning the right thing
  • about themselves.
  • And I love her for that.
  • I love her for everything she stands for.
  • She's come back to New York to find
  • her people, Barbara Gittings.
  • (applause)
  • BARBARA GITTINGS: Hello, everybody.
  • CROWD: Hello Barbara
  • BARBARA GITTINGS: And welcome to the greatest consciousness
  • raising event in gay history.
  • (applause)
  • This may not be quite the total lavender revolution,
  • but it certainly is a revelation.
  • No more can people talk about us as
  • though we were a tribe of three hundred people
  • on a Polynesian island six thousand miles away.
  • (applause)
  • (bell ringing)
  • Because we are everywhere, aren't we?
  • CROWD: Yes!
  • BRUCE JEWELL: In the remainder of her speech,
  • Barbara Gitting's listed the accomplishments
  • of the gay liberation movement, and ended
  • by leading the crowd in a chant of, "Gay is good.
  • Gay is proud.
  • Gay is natural.
  • Gay is normal.
  • Gay is gorgeous.
  • Gay is positive.
  • Gay is healthy.
  • Gay is happy.
  • Gay is love."
  • Then she said, now turn to the person next to you,
  • and say, "You are beautiful," and that's what people did.
  • All smiles, they turned around.
  • Some people kissed one another.
  • It was really beautiful.
  • Following Barbara Gitting's speech,
  • Master of Ceremonies Vito Russo introduced the Los Angeles Gay
  • Community Leader Morris Kight.
  • During his speech, Mr. Kight mentions a little boy
  • by the name of Jason, who had been lost
  • and was found, just as Kight was about to begin his speech.
  • So here's Morris Kight.
  • VITO RUSSO: --man who founded the GLF of Los Angeles,
  • the President of the Board of Directors of the Gay Community
  • Services in Los Angeles, and was in the Peace Movement
  • before most of us were born.
  • He is the "Silver Thread" as he calls it.
  • From southern Los Angeles to New York City,
  • and he comes bringing us love.
  • "The Dean," as John Francis Hunter
  • calls him, of the Gay Liberation Movement, Morris Kight.
  • (applause)
  • MORRIS KIGHT: Brothers and sisters, I
  • bring you greetings of love.
  • I am delighted that Jason has been found.
  • I'm much happier that we've been found.
  • There was at this demonstration a picket
  • sign, which I think is classic.
  • One of the best I have ever seen in my life.
  • "Don't pretend to be somebody else.
  • Be yourself."
  • (applause)
  • (cheering)
  • If I did all the things in New York that I was assigned to do,
  • I would have to stay a year.
  • I'll come back.
  • Dick Michaels, the Publisher of The Advocate,
  • asked me, especially, to bring you his warm personal greeting.
  • The sisters who run the Lesbian Tide Collective
  • asked me to do the same thing.
  • Just before I left Los Angeles, the last person
  • that I saw other than my closest coworkers
  • at the Gay Community Services Center
  • was Reverend Troy Perry, who asked
  • me to bring you his greetings.
  • A great many of the people said, look up ole so and so.
  • Or, so and so I used to know them real well.
  • I don't have time to do that.
  • So if somebody in southern California says,
  • "Did Morris say hello?"
  • Please do that.
  • Say, "Yes, he looked me up.
  • He said hello."
  • OK?
  • Alright.
  • Now, let's talk.
  • In New York, I have been the recipient
  • of the most hospitality that I have ever
  • received in my entire life.
  • Don Goodman of the Mattachine Society
  • has had me to the society offices and to a lovely dinner.
  • I was at the West Side Discussion Group Fair
  • yesterday.
  • I couldn't have enjoyed myself more.
  • Last night, I was to the Gay Activist
  • Alliance of New Jersey.
  • For a thrilling and beautiful march, and afterwards
  • a delightful party.
  • Billy Rousseau, one of my coworkers in Los Angeles,
  • is in the city.
  • And he's provided transportation for me.
  • And I think you, Billy.
  • Beyond that, two beautiful people and many joining them,
  • Jonathan (unintelligible) and David (unintelligible),
  • had me to Coming Out.
  • And I never had such an emotional experience
  • in my lifetime.
  • Beyond that, the Gay Activist Alliance
  • has had me to the firehouse time and again, and I've enjoyed it.
  • My host in New York has been Morty Manford.
  • Thank him.
  • OK.
  • At this time every year throughout America, there
  • is held graduation exercises.
  • And they always talk about promises.
  • They're going to promise you a lot of things, the universe,
  • dominion, progress, domination over women,
  • over blacks, over Chicanos, over us, over children,
  • domination, domination.
  • I call it the great bullshit revelation (unintelligible).
  • (applause)
  • So that's not what we're talking about.
  • We're talking about not dominating.
  • We're talking about sharing, and loving, and caring.
  • So we have a promise that we should make one another.
  • Other minorities have had those who promised them things.
  • Sojourner Truth said to black women,
  • "That white man over there says that that woman, that lady
  • must be lifted into a carriage.
  • Nobody ever lifted me into their carriage.
  • And ain't I a woman?"
  • Marcus Garvey said, "Liberty and justice for all?
  • Well, they must be talking about white folks,
  • because us black folks never had no liberty and justice.
  • Unfortunately, nobody promised us anything,
  • except misery, and destruction, and genocide.
  • We have been promised a life of death,
  • and destruction, and despair until this generation, in which
  • we have joined together to promise one another
  • it should never happen again."
  • In that context, we must remember Dachau, Belsen,
  • Pilzen, Auschwitz, Buchenwald, in which a million
  • of our brothers and sisters were scooped up
  • off the streets of Europe, and taken to that place.
  • And there, submitted to the ultimate solution to gayness,
  • incinerated and turned into soap.
  • Never again.
  • Never again will we allow this to happen.
  • (applause)
  • In the names of Rob Shaffer, assassinated
  • on duty serving you.
  • In the name of Frank Bartley, assassinated in Berkeley,
  • because he attempted to talk to somebody about caring,
  • and touching, and feeling.
  • In memory of the two hundred of our brothers and sisters
  • burned to death in Salem, not because they were witches,
  • because they were part of us.
  • In memory of that one million incinerated at Buchenwald.
  • In memory of Diego (unintelligible)
  • down at the police station.
  • (unintelligible) a victim also.
  • In memory of each and every one of these,
  • we say no more genocide.
  • Never again will you be allowed to take our children from us.
  • You will not be allowed to take our dignity.
  • You would not be allowed to take our lives.
  • You will not be allowed to deny us a home, a job.
  • And we demand that you give us the room that we want
  • not to be part of your society.
  • I do not wish to work at the White House,
  • because I don't want to be a thief.
  • (applause)