Green Thursday, radio program, October 25, 1973

  • (music plays)
  • PAM BARRALE: This is Green Thursday
  • with Geryllaeyn Naundorf, Pam Barrale,
  • and our special Halloween dyke Elizabeth Bell.
  • That was "Women Like Me" off A Few Loving Women,
  • and off It's a Beautiful Day, "White Bird".
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: The album A Few Loving Women
  • we've been playing for quite a few weeks now.
  • This is an album that was manufactured--
  • I don't know what other-- produced?
  • PAM BARRALE: Put together, written by.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Right, everything,
  • by the Lesbian Feminist Liberation in New York City.
  • The album is available from them.
  • And one of the best places to find out
  • where to write to them to get the album is through GROW.
  • And we'll be giving that address later on in the program
  • if you'd like to write it down.
  • Also, for a few weeks now, we've been talking to women,
  • doing profiles on women.
  • We did one that basically centered around Pam and myself.
  • And in here I have to throw in one little comment.
  • The name Pam, because this is Pam Barrale who
  • is my co-conspirator here, the name Pam
  • is very easy to pronounce, P-A-M, Pam.
  • I very much appreciate everyone calling up.
  • We both do.
  • We encourage people to call when we announce that we are there
  • to take the calls.
  • Mostly we would like people to write in.
  • And I'll talk about that a little bit more.
  • My name is not Geraldine.
  • My name is not Geralin.
  • My name is not a lot of things.
  • It's Geryllaeyn.
  • It's Cheryl with a G instead of a C-H and "lane"
  • as in "Penny Lane".
  • So you get Geryllaeyn.
  • There, now that's all straightened up--
  • PAM BARRALE: Geryllaeyn.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: --no more Geraldines.
  • We've been asking women to write.
  • Basically, we would like to know what
  • women would like to hear more about on the program,
  • whether it be in the area of music or topics
  • that you would like us to explore a little more
  • with guests or with each other.
  • Also we need volunteers for the Dyke of the Month.
  • Now, if you're at home and you're not
  • volunteering because you just don't feel like it,
  • that's no excuse.
  • Volunteer anyway before somebody volunteers you.
  • Please, yes, write in to WCMF, Green Thursday.
  • It's at 129 Layton Avenue.
  • And that's Rochester 14609.
  • We would really like to hear from you
  • because this is your program.
  • It's not just ours.
  • It's not a question of, we sit at home dreaming up things
  • to talk about, at least it shouldn't be.
  • We would really like to know what you want to hear,
  • because you are the reason why the program is on.
  • So please, instead of just thinking about it,
  • pick up your pen in your little hand and scrawl away.
  • We want to hear about it.
  • In fact we want to hear so much I'll give the address again.
  • It's WCMF, Green Thursday, 129 Layton Avenue, Rochester 14609.
  • Announcements Pamela.
  • PAM BARRALE: This Saturday, October 27 at the GAGV Center
  • that's on 812 Brown Street--
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: At West Main.
  • PAM BARRALE: --at West Main, there's
  • going to be a costume party, an all women's dance.
  • So between eight thirty and one, come down to the GAGV Center.
  • Bring $1.50 or whatever donation you can afford.
  • Wear your costume and maybe you'll
  • be chosen to win the prize for the best costume.
  • I'm told there's a two-fold prize award.
  • And we'll be everyone will be voting by applause I believe.
  • I don't know what the prize is.
  • I wasn't told.
  • But it should be a really good time.
  • We're going to have--
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: We couldn't get that part out of them.
  • PAM BARRALE: --yeah, we couldn't get that part out of them.
  • But we're going to have beer, cider, peanuts, soda, and music
  • and just a really good time.
  • So please, this Saturday, eight thirty to one, the GAGV Center.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Right, and also at the GAGV Center which
  • is, again, at 812 Brown Street at West Main on Friday
  • and Saturday, November second and third,
  • there's going to be women's films.
  • The films are Three Lives by Kate Millett.
  • And this is a really good film and it's
  • a good idea to come down there.
  • On Friday, November second, I made a mistake
  • before, the film is going to be shown at the Genesee Co-op
  • at eight o'clock.
  • And the next night, Saturday, November third,
  • it's going to be shown at the GAGV Center at eight o'clock.
  • There is a donation at the door.
  • And there will be refreshments and discussion
  • following the film.
  • This is "Luckie" by Laura Nyro and "Song for Judith",
  • Judy Collins.
  • (music plays)
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: That was "Song for Judith"
  • by Judy Collins.
  • But actually it's really the song for Elizabeth.
  • But we couldn't find an Elizabethan--
  • that was rather poor.
  • I didn't mean to say that.
  • We couldn't find an Elizabeth song
  • that said it quite as well.
  • And the song very, very much does describe Elizabeth Bell.
  • She is like a rainbow coming around the bend.
  • And she does make you feel very happy.
  • Right now she's grinning from ear to ear going, "Oh."
  • I think we can dispense with all of the,
  • where were you born, where did you go to grammar school type
  • things.
  • Good, yeah, she nods her head.
  • One of the things that we were talking about just
  • before the show was speaking engagements and radio programs
  • and how after a time it becomes very difficult to maintain
  • the image, almost, of a professional lesbian who's
  • willing, able, and ready at the drop of a hat
  • to discuss being queer, and how to deal
  • with that and sabbaticals and all kinds of things.
  • And I think another thing that Elizabeth and Pam might
  • want to get into later is working eight thirty until five
  • and not being able to cope.
  • And in a way it's sort of all interrelated, just
  • not being able to cope, or not being
  • willing to cope rather with a very regimented schedule
  • of any kind.
  • Yes?
  • ELIZABETH BELL: Yeah.
  • PAM BARRALE: Elizabeth has a watch now I believe, is trying.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Well anyway yeah, she is trying
  • and she does know the time a little bit now.
  • But it is rather difficult to talk
  • about being gay continually.
  • For a while Liz was doing speaking engagements
  • all the time, and was in fact, the director of the speaking
  • engagement program with GAGV and went on sabbatical.
  • ELIZABETH BELL: Sudden departure.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: A very sudden departure.
  • ELIZABETH BELL: Very sudden departure.
  • I guess for me it got a little bit overwhelming
  • going out and explaining my reasons and, wait a minute,
  • get a little closer--
  • explaining my reasons and telling
  • the world why I was doing what I was doing when I didn't really
  • want to have to explain to the world
  • and make excuses and answer questions,
  • but just wanted to do it, just wanted to be it.
  • And I guess that's what I hear you were saying before
  • about the radio station, that after a while
  • it just becomes a little bit overwhelming
  • having to remind the world that, hey, I'm a homosexual.
  • I guess it can be summed up in my favorite button
  • that I saw somebody wearing, "How dare
  • you assume I'm a heterosexual."
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Right, right.
  • ELIZABETH BELL: And so the only way
  • we can combat that is to carry a banner.
  • And I guess after a while you get really tired
  • of advertising.
  • You just want to sort of become anonymous
  • and become Geryllaeyn, or become Pam, or become Liz.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Right.
  • And it isn't really a matter of getting sick of it.
  • Being-- maybe it is a matter of getting sick of it.
  • Pam raised her eyebrows.
  • Maybe she's getting sick of it.
  • PAM BARRALE: No, I think a point here
  • is that in speaking engagements you're basically talking
  • to a heterosexual audience.
  • They want to know all the whys.
  • They want-- they're asking you all these clinical questions.
  • And you want to get away from that.
  • You want to talk about people and being a person.
  • It gets into the same thing with the radio show.
  • I'm sure there's a lot of people who want factual information.
  • They want to understand.
  • But this is not directed toward those people.
  • We're trying to get human feelings
  • and human beings across, ideas, people.
  • And whatever is important to the person sitting
  • in front of the microphone, therefore,
  • is important to being gay, as far as we're concerned.
  • We're asking for feedback, but we
  • don't want to I don't want to get into a program which
  • is purely factual, always makes total sense,
  • and is very meaningful, very relevant to every single person
  • listening.
  • And that's a strong point for me.
  • It's very frustrating to me to do a speaking engagement
  • and to constantly have people keep saying, "Yeah,
  • but what happened back in 1963 back there in New York City?"
  • And perhaps a co-speaker will start going into,
  • "Well, in 1963 in New York City, whatever year it was and I
  • don't even know there was this big fight,
  • you see, and the police were throwing things," you know?
  • And it just-- and I just sit there inside,
  • I just don't-- I just get very frustrated because I want
  • to get away from all that.
  • Go read a book on history or go pick up a newspaper.
  • The factual information, you can get it.
  • Or sit someone down and say, "I'd like to ask you
  • the following three questions.
  • Would you please tell me where you were born?"
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: That's very difficult
  • though for the person who, presumably a straight person
  • or whatever label they choose to use,
  • that's really difficult on them though because most
  • of the people who do ask the questions
  • are very sincere about wanting to know the factual answers.
  • I don't know how many times I've been asked if I've ever--
  • quick, think of a euphemism--
  • if I've ever had sex with a male.
  • And I think every single speaking engagement
  • that I've ever gone to, somebody has asked that question.
  • And whether--
  • ELIZABETH BELL: Give your credentials, quickly.
  • (laughter)
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Yes.
  • You know, are you real?
  • And most of the people, usually it's
  • a very smart ass type question by usually a male
  • in the audience who's very, very uptight about the faggots
  • and the dykes coming to talk.
  • But on the other hand I think it is in most people's minds.
  • How did it start?
  • When did it start?
  • Is it a germ that suddenly grew one day?
  • Were you born queer?
  • Did your parents know immediately
  • when they looked through the glass
  • at the bassinet, this kind of thing.
  • ELIZABETH BELL: I think actually a little bit differently.
  • I find more that it's not so much--
  • that I guess it's not so much the audience
  • that bothers me, because I see them as pretty much the same
  • after doing speaking engagement after speaking engagement,
  • or I guess radio show if there's anybody out there.
  • But I find it's more I do a lot of things.
  • I am a lot of things.
  • I'm a collage.
  • And to constantly have to verbalize
  • one aspect of my collage, to constantly take the magnifying
  • lens to one little picture, and blow it up, and project this
  • as me, and have no direction towards any
  • of the other pictures that are on that collage,
  • I just feel is misrepresentation.
  • And then I find myself, when all the focus
  • goes to that one picture, that that's what I've become.
  • And I find other aspects of myself start losing out
  • and I forget them I don't have time for them.
  • I become engulfed.
  • And I guess I resent more what it does to me
  • after a long period of time.
  • That's why I think I choose sabbaticals
  • and then coming back to it and then sabbaticals
  • and then coming back to it--
  • PAM BARRALE: Yeah, and it's nice--
  • ELIZABETH BELL: --re-establish (unintelligible).
  • PAM BARRALE: --sabbaticals from talking to a straight audience.
  • It's also sabbaticals from being in a political gay movement.
  • ELIZABETH BELL: Right.
  • PAM BARRALE: Whereas you can just
  • push yourself and push yourself about laws and rights
  • and everything like that.
  • And it just can get on, and on, and on.
  • And you just-- there's so many other things you want to do
  • and so many other things you want to talk about.
  • ELIZABETH BELL: (laughs) You do.
  • Like both of us who work nine to five,
  • and then to have to forget all the problems of that and all
  • of a sudden come and be the professional queer,
  • that's unreal.
  • PAM BARRALE: Right.
  • This is why we find it harder and harder.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: And yet it is very--
  • ELIZABETH BELL: It's a joyous night though.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Yes.
  • And yet it is very important to go through,
  • don't you think Liz?
  • ELIZABETH BELL: Oh yeah.
  • Oh the questions, having to the first time
  • I got up for a speaking engagement,
  • I didn't know what I was going to say.
  • I mean tonight I started off as a deaf mute.
  • I finally got words tonight.
  • But when you start having to answer questions and sort of I
  • guess it's defend yourself, defend your stance,
  • defend what you believe in, all of a sudden everything
  • started coming together.
  • And I started trying to convince the audience of what
  • I was saying.
  • And then I stopped and I listen to what I said and I decided
  • yeah, I guess that makes sense.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: So you convinced yourself?
  • ELIZABETH BELL: To me, yeah, it really
  • pulled me together, really nice.
  • PAM BARRALE: It has its purpose--
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Yes.
  • PAM BARRALE: --in the proper place.
  • It just can get a little overdone.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: But it is important to go through.
  • It's another level of coming out in a sense,
  • not necessarily with other people, but with yourself.
  • One of the things that I did want
  • to ask you about was that GROW, which
  • is the Gay Revolution of Women.
  • I know you know, but I'm doing this for Pam's benefit
  • who never heard of them.
  • Well anyway--
  • PAM BARRALE: Thank you.
  • (end of recording)