Green Thursday, radio program, October 25, 1973
- (music plays)
- PAM BARRALE: This is Green Thursday
- with Geryllaeyn Naundorf, Pam Barrale,
- and our special Halloween dyke Elizabeth Bell.
- That was "Women Like Me" off A Few Loving Women,
- and off It's a Beautiful Day, "White Bird".
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: The album A Few Loving Women
- we've been playing for quite a few weeks now.
- This is an album that was manufactured--
- I don't know what other-- produced?
- PAM BARRALE: Put together, written by.
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Right, everything,
- by the Lesbian Feminist Liberation in New York City.
- The album is available from them.
- And one of the best places to find out
- where to write to them to get the album is through GROW.
- And we'll be giving that address later on in the program
- if you'd like to write it down.
- Also, for a few weeks now, we've been talking to women,
- doing profiles on women.
- We did one that basically centered around Pam and myself.
- And in here I have to throw in one little comment.
- The name Pam, because this is Pam Barrale who
- is my co-conspirator here, the name Pam
- is very easy to pronounce, P-A-M, Pam.
- I very much appreciate everyone calling up.
- We both do.
- We encourage people to call when we announce that we are there
- to take the calls.
- Mostly we would like people to write in.
- And I'll talk about that a little bit more.
- My name is not Geraldine.
- My name is not Geralin.
- My name is not a lot of things.
- It's Geryllaeyn.
- It's Cheryl with a G instead of a C-H and "lane"
- as in "Penny Lane".
- So you get Geryllaeyn.
- There, now that's all straightened up--
- PAM BARRALE: Geryllaeyn.
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: --no more Geraldines.
- We've been asking women to write.
- Basically, we would like to know what
- women would like to hear more about on the program,
- whether it be in the area of music or topics
- that you would like us to explore a little more
- with guests or with each other.
- Also we need volunteers for the Dyke of the Month.
- Now, if you're at home and you're not
- volunteering because you just don't feel like it,
- that's no excuse.
- Volunteer anyway before somebody volunteers you.
- Please, yes, write in to WCMF, Green Thursday.
- It's at 129 Layton Avenue.
- And that's Rochester 14609.
- We would really like to hear from you
- because this is your program.
- It's not just ours.
- It's not a question of, we sit at home dreaming up things
- to talk about, at least it shouldn't be.
- We would really like to know what you want to hear,
- because you are the reason why the program is on.
- So please, instead of just thinking about it,
- pick up your pen in your little hand and scrawl away.
- We want to hear about it.
- In fact we want to hear so much I'll give the address again.
- It's WCMF, Green Thursday, 129 Layton Avenue, Rochester 14609.
- Announcements Pamela.
- PAM BARRALE: This Saturday, October 27 at the GAGV Center
- that's on 812 Brown Street--
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: At West Main.
- PAM BARRALE: --at West Main, there's
- going to be a costume party, an all women's dance.
- So between eight thirty and one, come down to the GAGV Center.
- Bring $1.50 or whatever donation you can afford.
- Wear your costume and maybe you'll
- be chosen to win the prize for the best costume.
- I'm told there's a two-fold prize award.
- And we'll be everyone will be voting by applause I believe.
- I don't know what the prize is.
- I wasn't told.
- But it should be a really good time.
- We're going to have--
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: We couldn't get that part out of them.
- PAM BARRALE: --yeah, we couldn't get that part out of them.
- But we're going to have beer, cider, peanuts, soda, and music
- and just a really good time.
- So please, this Saturday, eight thirty to one, the GAGV Center.
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Right, and also at the GAGV Center which
- is, again, at 812 Brown Street at West Main on Friday
- and Saturday, November second and third,
- there's going to be women's films.
- The films are Three Lives by Kate Millett.
- And this is a really good film and it's
- a good idea to come down there.
- On Friday, November second, I made a mistake
- before, the film is going to be shown at the Genesee Co-op
- at eight o'clock.
- And the next night, Saturday, November third,
- it's going to be shown at the GAGV Center at eight o'clock.
- There is a donation at the door.
- And there will be refreshments and discussion
- following the film.
- This is "Luckie" by Laura Nyro and "Song for Judith",
- Judy Collins.
- (music plays)
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: That was "Song for Judith"
- by Judy Collins.
- But actually it's really the song for Elizabeth.
- But we couldn't find an Elizabethan--
- that was rather poor.
- I didn't mean to say that.
- We couldn't find an Elizabeth song
- that said it quite as well.
- And the song very, very much does describe Elizabeth Bell.
- She is like a rainbow coming around the bend.
- And she does make you feel very happy.
- Right now she's grinning from ear to ear going, "Oh."
- I think we can dispense with all of the,
- where were you born, where did you go to grammar school type
- things.
- Good, yeah, she nods her head.
- One of the things that we were talking about just
- before the show was speaking engagements and radio programs
- and how after a time it becomes very difficult to maintain
- the image, almost, of a professional lesbian who's
- willing, able, and ready at the drop of a hat
- to discuss being queer, and how to deal
- with that and sabbaticals and all kinds of things.
- And I think another thing that Elizabeth and Pam might
- want to get into later is working eight thirty until five
- and not being able to cope.
- And in a way it's sort of all interrelated, just
- not being able to cope, or not being
- willing to cope rather with a very regimented schedule
- of any kind.
- Yes?
- ELIZABETH BELL: Yeah.
- PAM BARRALE: Elizabeth has a watch now I believe, is trying.
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Well anyway yeah, she is trying
- and she does know the time a little bit now.
- But it is rather difficult to talk
- about being gay continually.
- For a while Liz was doing speaking engagements
- all the time, and was in fact, the director of the speaking
- engagement program with GAGV and went on sabbatical.
- ELIZABETH BELL: Sudden departure.
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: A very sudden departure.
- ELIZABETH BELL: Very sudden departure.
- I guess for me it got a little bit overwhelming
- going out and explaining my reasons and, wait a minute,
- get a little closer--
- explaining my reasons and telling
- the world why I was doing what I was doing when I didn't really
- want to have to explain to the world
- and make excuses and answer questions,
- but just wanted to do it, just wanted to be it.
- And I guess that's what I hear you were saying before
- about the radio station, that after a while
- it just becomes a little bit overwhelming
- having to remind the world that, hey, I'm a homosexual.
- I guess it can be summed up in my favorite button
- that I saw somebody wearing, "How dare
- you assume I'm a heterosexual."
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Right, right.
- ELIZABETH BELL: And so the only way
- we can combat that is to carry a banner.
- And I guess after a while you get really tired
- of advertising.
- You just want to sort of become anonymous
- and become Geryllaeyn, or become Pam, or become Liz.
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Right.
- And it isn't really a matter of getting sick of it.
- Being-- maybe it is a matter of getting sick of it.
- Pam raised her eyebrows.
- Maybe she's getting sick of it.
- PAM BARRALE: No, I think a point here
- is that in speaking engagements you're basically talking
- to a heterosexual audience.
- They want to know all the whys.
- They want-- they're asking you all these clinical questions.
- And you want to get away from that.
- You want to talk about people and being a person.
- It gets into the same thing with the radio show.
- I'm sure there's a lot of people who want factual information.
- They want to understand.
- But this is not directed toward those people.
- We're trying to get human feelings
- and human beings across, ideas, people.
- And whatever is important to the person sitting
- in front of the microphone, therefore,
- is important to being gay, as far as we're concerned.
- We're asking for feedback, but we
- don't want to I don't want to get into a program which
- is purely factual, always makes total sense,
- and is very meaningful, very relevant to every single person
- listening.
- And that's a strong point for me.
- It's very frustrating to me to do a speaking engagement
- and to constantly have people keep saying, "Yeah,
- but what happened back in 1963 back there in New York City?"
- And perhaps a co-speaker will start going into,
- "Well, in 1963 in New York City, whatever year it was and I
- don't even know there was this big fight,
- you see, and the police were throwing things," you know?
- And it just-- and I just sit there inside,
- I just don't-- I just get very frustrated because I want
- to get away from all that.
- Go read a book on history or go pick up a newspaper.
- The factual information, you can get it.
- Or sit someone down and say, "I'd like to ask you
- the following three questions.
- Would you please tell me where you were born?"
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: That's very difficult
- though for the person who, presumably a straight person
- or whatever label they choose to use,
- that's really difficult on them though because most
- of the people who do ask the questions
- are very sincere about wanting to know the factual answers.
- I don't know how many times I've been asked if I've ever--
- quick, think of a euphemism--
- if I've ever had sex with a male.
- And I think every single speaking engagement
- that I've ever gone to, somebody has asked that question.
- And whether--
- ELIZABETH BELL: Give your credentials, quickly.
- (laughter)
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Yes.
- You know, are you real?
- And most of the people, usually it's
- a very smart ass type question by usually a male
- in the audience who's very, very uptight about the faggots
- and the dykes coming to talk.
- But on the other hand I think it is in most people's minds.
- How did it start?
- When did it start?
- Is it a germ that suddenly grew one day?
- Were you born queer?
- Did your parents know immediately
- when they looked through the glass
- at the bassinet, this kind of thing.
- ELIZABETH BELL: I think actually a little bit differently.
- I find more that it's not so much--
- that I guess it's not so much the audience
- that bothers me, because I see them as pretty much the same
- after doing speaking engagement after speaking engagement,
- or I guess radio show if there's anybody out there.
- But I find it's more I do a lot of things.
- I am a lot of things.
- I'm a collage.
- And to constantly have to verbalize
- one aspect of my collage, to constantly take the magnifying
- lens to one little picture, and blow it up, and project this
- as me, and have no direction towards any
- of the other pictures that are on that collage,
- I just feel is misrepresentation.
- And then I find myself, when all the focus
- goes to that one picture, that that's what I've become.
- And I find other aspects of myself start losing out
- and I forget them I don't have time for them.
- I become engulfed.
- And I guess I resent more what it does to me
- after a long period of time.
- That's why I think I choose sabbaticals
- and then coming back to it and then sabbaticals
- and then coming back to it--
- PAM BARRALE: Yeah, and it's nice--
- ELIZABETH BELL: --re-establish (unintelligible).
- PAM BARRALE: --sabbaticals from talking to a straight audience.
- It's also sabbaticals from being in a political gay movement.
- ELIZABETH BELL: Right.
- PAM BARRALE: Whereas you can just
- push yourself and push yourself about laws and rights
- and everything like that.
- And it just can get on, and on, and on.
- And you just-- there's so many other things you want to do
- and so many other things you want to talk about.
- ELIZABETH BELL: (laughs) You do.
- Like both of us who work nine to five,
- and then to have to forget all the problems of that and all
- of a sudden come and be the professional queer,
- that's unreal.
- PAM BARRALE: Right.
- This is why we find it harder and harder.
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: And yet it is very--
- ELIZABETH BELL: It's a joyous night though.
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Yes.
- And yet it is very important to go through,
- don't you think Liz?
- ELIZABETH BELL: Oh yeah.
- Oh the questions, having to the first time
- I got up for a speaking engagement,
- I didn't know what I was going to say.
- I mean tonight I started off as a deaf mute.
- I finally got words tonight.
- But when you start having to answer questions and sort of I
- guess it's defend yourself, defend your stance,
- defend what you believe in, all of a sudden everything
- started coming together.
- And I started trying to convince the audience of what
- I was saying.
- And then I stopped and I listen to what I said and I decided
- yeah, I guess that makes sense.
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: So you convinced yourself?
- ELIZABETH BELL: To me, yeah, it really
- pulled me together, really nice.
- PAM BARRALE: It has its purpose--
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Yes.
- PAM BARRALE: --in the proper place.
- It just can get a little overdone.
- GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: But it is important to go through.
- It's another level of coming out in a sense,
- not necessarily with other people, but with yourself.
- One of the things that I did want
- to ask you about was that GROW, which
- is the Gay Revolution of Women.
- I know you know, but I'm doing this for Pam's benefit
- who never heard of them.
- Well anyway--
- PAM BARRALE: Thank you.
- (end of recording)