Green Thursday, radio program, October 25, 1973

  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: So could we go through that a little bit?
  • ELIZABETH BELL: And what is your opinion, Geryllaeyn?
  • (laughter)
  • ELIZABETH BELL: Start from the top.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Well, I don't know.
  • My opinion-- I feel two completely different ways
  • about it.
  • One, I feel that women should be talking directly
  • to women and not to men, and that if men
  • want to know about lesbianism they should go read a book,
  • or call a public library, or--
  • you know, just totally divorce women talking to men.
  • Because sometimes, I get the distinct impression
  • in speaking engagements that the men don't really
  • care except for the fact that they're threatened,
  • and that they care about very much.
  • So it's not lesbianism or a lifestyle
  • of being a woman loving another woman that they're
  • concerned with at all.
  • It's the lifestyle of a woman being able to cope very, very
  • well without a man.
  • That's what they're worried about.
  • So on my left hand, no, women should not talk to men at all.
  • You know, close your eyes when you pass them
  • in the street, (unintelligible).
  • On the other hand, I think it's very, very important
  • for women to talk to men, because I
  • think that there are those one out of five, or two
  • out of five, or whatever, men who are very, very sincerely
  • wanting to know what's going on, not so much so
  • that they can say, "Aha!
  • Now I understand what being a dyke is all about."
  • Because they never will.
  • Because they can never be a dyke, right?
  • Well, I guess they could.
  • We had Peggy on the show a few weeks ago, and she was trying.
  • But not so much knowing what it's like for identification,
  • but just simply knowing, because dykes are reality,
  • and they're people.
  • And it's maybe a whole manner of thinking or lifestyle
  • that they haven't thought about yet.
  • And they really do want to know.
  • They want to understand human emotion.
  • So there I am with two--
  • a complete dichotomy.
  • ELIZABETH BELL: I think I sort of--
  • I find in myself the same dichotomy,
  • for a little bit different reasons, per usual.
  • (laughter)
  • I find-- I find the two different things--
  • going to talk to a group of women
  • and going to talk to a mixed group--
  • are just two completely different experiences.
  • I find more happens.
  • Questions go further than just who
  • are you, and what have you done, and what did you do,
  • and what are you all about.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: And did you like it?
  • ELIZABETH BELL: And did you like it?
  • When it's a whole group of women, defenses are down, or--
  • I don't know.
  • It's just-- it's just a lot easier, a lot softer,
  • a lot smoother.
  • And when it's a group of men, I guess
  • everybody's a little bit threatened, because nobody
  • really understands where everybody
  • is standing type of thing.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Right.
  • And also, possibly, that if there are men in the audience
  • the women in the audience feel that they cannot be completely
  • honest with themselves in the sense that they are being
  • watched-- intimidated.
  • ELIZABETH BELL: I'm not even sure if they feel they cannot
  • be honest.
  • They maybe just don't even get to that point.
  • Because they always seem to get to a shallower level.
  • And when you have women in the audience, people
  • all of a sudden can cope with just the question of,
  • am I going to be honest, am I going to be--
  • to hide it from me.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Well, do you feel that women
  • are intimidated by men?
  • Do you feel that it's an active threat?
  • Or do you think it's more that--
  • a completely socialized thing--
  • that people-- that it's more of a passive threat, I guess,
  • is the only way to put it?
  • ELIZABETH BELL: I think it's more of a passive threat,
  • fall into a role type thing.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: And then you
  • just don't bother to get out of the role?
  • ELIZABETH BELL: Well, an active threat
  • you have to think twice about.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: That's true.
  • ELIZABETH BELL: And when the threat is real,
  • it takes a lot more time to think twice about it,
  • if you know-- if you follow.
  • And so I think just the logistics
  • tend to make it passive.
  • Maybe it turns into an active threat.
  • And maybe, eventually, you start getting angry.
  • Or eventually, you start hearing things
  • that you never heard before.
  • But I think, in the beginning, it's pretty passive.
  • And something like a speaking engagement
  • is pretty novel to most people.
  • I think it begins as just a curiosity, sort
  • of poking the finger.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Yes.
  • ELIZABETH BELL: If that made any sense.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Right.
  • Well, to sum that all up is Melanie with Good Guys.
  • And before that, I have to sneak in one small announcement.
  • This is Green Thursday, and this is WCMF in Rochester, New York.
  • (music plays)
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: A threatened cut-off
  • of funds for Los Angeles' Gay Community Services Center
  • by the US Department of Health, Education, and Welfare
  • was prevented recently when nineteen California
  • members of Congress responded favorably to a GCSC appeal.
  • The Gay Community Services Center
  • is participating in the Drug Abuse Training
  • Program funded by the HEW through the National Free
  • Clinic Council.
  • The $20,000 grant for staff training
  • was used to initiate what the Center believes
  • is the nation's first drug abuse training program specifically
  • for gays.
  • It has also managed to open a recovery house
  • for short-term in-residence treatment of gays
  • with drug abuse problems, primarily alcoholism.
  • The program and the federal grant
  • were mentioned in an article in The Los Angeles Times, which
  • came to the attention of Caspar W. Weinberger, Health,
  • Education, and Welfare Secretary.
  • Shortly thereafter, Weinberger began the development
  • of a new HEW policy which would have excluded the Gay Community
  • Services Center and all other gay-oriented social service
  • facilities from federal funding.
  • However, Morris Kight, the Board President of the Gay Community
  • Services Center, was made aware of Mr. Weinberger's plans
  • and promptly appealed to California Congressmen for aid.
  • Of those who wrote to Weinberger directly,
  • Representative Phillip Burton of San Francisco
  • was one of the most emphatic in opposing fund cut-offs.
  • He told Weinberger in a letter that GCSC's programs
  • were addressing human needs, and cutting off funds
  • for them would be a rank injustice and a grave mistake.
  • Bob Heard, the Head of the National Free Clinic Council
  • of San Francisco, says that many member clinics
  • were so incensed at the threatened cut-off in funding
  • for the gay community services center
  • that they would refuse further federal funding if GCSC
  • were discriminated against.
  • Shortly thereafter, some nineteen California Congressmen
  • came to the Gay Community Service Center's support.
  • And the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare
  • agreed to continue financial support to GCSC, as well
  • as other gay service centers.
  • Advocate 123.
  • PAM BARRALE: Haven fallen short of her ten thousand vote target
  • in Detroit, Michigan's primary election,
  • lesbian Common Council candidate Connie--
  • I'm sorry, I can't pronounce this word.
  • What's her name?
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: McConnohie
  • PAM BARRALE: That's right.
  • McConnohie blamed apathy in the gay community for her defeat.
  • She also said that the radical faction of the gay community,
  • through the Gay Liberator newspaper,
  • was instrumental in dividing her strength by backing
  • a socialist workers party candidate.
  • McConnohie, who asked Detroit voters to "elect a real man"
  • in a half-serious, half-camp campaign
  • finished ninety-second in a field of one hundred
  • and fourteen candidates.
  • Her twenty seven--two thousand seven hundred vote total was
  • about twenty thousand short of what it took to enter
  • the general election field of eighteen candidates.
  • "Looking for bright spots," she said,
  • "a lot of people, a lot of good people, including Straights,
  • worked hard for me."
  • She added that she was also pleased
  • by the objective coverage of her candidacy
  • by The Detroit News, a major Detroit journal.
  • McConnohie, who for months had been
  • in the middle of a fight between two factions
  • in the gay community--
  • those people who were in her support, and those who agreed
  • with the Gay Liberator, which in one issue
  • turned her "Back Mac" slogan into a "Sack Mac" banner
  • headline.
  • The only harmony between the two groups
  • was their mutual support of a proposed city charter, which
  • calls for the creation of an eleven-member human rights
  • commission empowered to act against discrimination
  • on the basis of sexual orientation,
  • among other things.
  • Advocate 123.
  • ELIZABETH BELL: Though suspended by his school board
  • without pay, Paramus, New Jersey teacher, John Gish,
  • has gained what may be the most dramatic editorial
  • support in the history of gay liberation.
  • The thirty-six-year-old gay activist suspended on the same
  • day he thought he had won his symbolic fight to use
  • the student lunchroom from which he had been barred,
  • has also gained renewed financial backing from
  • the powerful National Education Association in its state
  • and local arms.
  • The resounding editorial defense in the September twenty-fourth
  • Hackensack Record contended that the Paramus Board of Education
  • had failed to prove that a gay teacher has
  • a negative influence on students.
  • The editorial headline quote, "A Sorry Humiliating Business,"
  • unquote, called Gish's suspension and other board
  • activities against him the sort of experience
  • that human beings, particularly those concerned
  • with educating the young, should not have to go through.
  • It went on to ask whether a school administration has
  • any right to deal in this manner with an alleged homosexual who
  • openly advocates civil rights for other homosexuals.
  • We submit the board has no such right.
  • They called his suspension unconscionable
  • and demanded that the board rescind its action.
  • Gish, meantime, was notified that his monthly salary will
  • be paid by the Academic Freedom Fund of the National Education
  • Association for at least the next four months.
  • (music plays)
  • PAM BARRALE: Those were two songs
  • by Mary Travers, Children One and All and The First Time
  • Ever I Saw Your Face.
  • And that second cut was dedicated to someone.
  • Elizabeth is going to do a dedication for us.
  • ELIZABETH BELL: It was to you, Marja, Marja.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Well.
  • (laughter)
  • PAM BARRALE: There's going to be another dance
  • this Saturday, the twenty-seventh,
  • starting at nine o'clock.
  • It's being sponsored by Gay Liberation
  • Front on the University of Rochester River campus.
  • It's being held in the Danforth Dining Center.
  • And we're unsure of the donation.
  • We think it's fifty cents for students
  • and one dollar for anyone else, but we're not really sure.
  • So don't quote us on that.
  • But that is a dance, nine o'clock,
  • the Danforth Dining Center in the University
  • of Rochester River campus.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: And also this weekend the twenty-seventh
  • and twenty-eighth, the NYSCO--
  • there's supposed to be a G in there--
  • Conference is being held this weekend.
  • It's the New York State Coalition of Gay Organizations.
  • It's being hosted by the Gay Alliance of the Genesee Valley,
  • and it will be held on Saturday at the Universalist
  • Church, which is at 150 Clinton Avenue South.
  • Registration for the conference will
  • be Friday evening from seven thirty until one o'clock.
  • That's this Friday evening.
  • Saturday at twelve thirty is a business meeting.
  • And at two o'clock and three thirty
  • are workshops, which will be determined at the business
  • meeting.
  • Six thirty, there is a potluck supper
  • for women, or for everyone--
  • I'm not sure which, but I think you better find out--
  • I better find out--
  • which will be held at the Gay Alliance Center
  • at 812 Brown Street.
  • And then on Sunday, once again, will be a twelve thirty
  • business meeting.
  • And it is possible to call GAGV for further information.
  • And since I've completely botched this up,
  • it might be a very good idea to do that.
  • The number is 436-7670, 436-7670.
  • Tell them you want to know about the NYSCGO conference
  • because Geryllaeyn made absolutely no sense.
  • PAM BARRALE: The last two songs we'll hear tonight
  • are Friends by Bette Midler and All I Want by Joni Mitchell.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: And, once again, we
  • are Geryllaeyn Naundorf and--
  • PAM BARRALE: Pam Barrale--
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: And this is--
  • PAM BARRALE: --and--
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: --oh, yes.
  • And this is--
  • ELIZABETH BELL: Liz Bell.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Liz Bell.
  • And we're on Green Thursday.
  • We'll be back in two weeks.
  • And Bruce Jewell will be here to do his section of the show
  • next week.
  • Until then--
  • ELIZABETH BELL: I would like to make two words more
  • than I was allotted.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: Oh, OK.
  • PAM BARRALE: Two.
  • ELIZABETH BELL: I would like to say
  • that although Halloween comes but once a year,
  • that costuming is a daily event.
  • And I would like to wish everybody a happy Halloween
  • and a wonderful costuming.
  • GERYLLAEYN NAUNDORF: And have a beautiful Green Thursday.
  • ELIZABETH BELL: Yes.
  • (music plays)