Green Thursday, radio program, September 1973

  • (Music - David Ackles, "Blue Ribbons"]
  • DAVID ACKLES: (Singing) --took him from me
  • on black and shiny wings of song.
  • Upon a wind of freedom swept along.
  • My raven's gone.
  • They took him from me.
  • I hear the laughter of their hate
  • and see the arrows fly from freedom's gate.
  • I don't wear blue ribbons now.
  • I don't wind my heart with laces.
  • I don't smile at lovers now, I wind my eyes
  • with rivers from the places they will find.
  • The world is full of lovers loving hate and only loving
  • others of their kind.
  • My love is gone, but love is with me.
  • The song he sang is in me now.
  • The tree of love will bear a loving bough.
  • Though he is gone, his voice is in me.
  • I hear him shout, I am not blind, I am a man,
  • and men are all one kind.
  • I don't wear blue ribbons now.
  • I don't wind my heart with laces.
  • I don't smile at lovers now, I wind my eyes
  • with rivers from the places they will find.
  • The world is full of lovers loving hate and only loving
  • others of their kind.
  • But maybe they are learning now.
  • Maybe just a few are learning.
  • (Music ends)
  • BRUCE JEWELL: This is Bruce Jewell again,
  • and this is the news.
  • The Reverend Dr. William E. Alberts, the Boston minister
  • who lost his ministry after performing a gay marriage
  • ceremony in defiance of his bishop,
  • says he has been forced to file for bankruptcy.
  • Said Rev. Alberts, "My monetary bankruptcy
  • is a commentary on the moral bankruptcy of the Southern New
  • England Conference of the United Methodist Church."
  • The Southern New England Conference
  • voted June 8 to forcibly retire Dr. Alberts, then pastor
  • of Boston's Old West Church, after Bishop Edward G. Carroll
  • made plain that Alberts would not
  • be reappointed to Old West or any other church.
  • All efforts to negotiate a monetary settlement
  • of some kind failed.
  • Dr. Alberts said that, after twenty-four years in the United
  • Methodist ministry, during which, quote,
  • "I struggled to make ends meet," unquote,
  • he had built up a staggering indebtedness,
  • and a budget counselor had advised him to consider
  • bankruptcy as early as 1966.
  • The forced retirement, said Dr. Alberts,
  • was not the final straw, but the mortal blow.
  • During the witch hunt that resulted from the gay marriage
  • ceremony, Dr. Alberts said, quote,
  • "I have encountered some of the most devious, cruel,
  • and cowardly people I've ever met in my whole life,
  • all within the very institution I loved and served
  • for twenty-four years."
  • Advocate, 121.
  • This year's Gay Pride festivities in Vancouver,
  • British Columbia, were the largest ever
  • in that Canadian province.
  • The event was marked by an hour-long rally at the downtown
  • courthouse, August 25.
  • The rally was sponsored by the Gay Alliance towards Equality
  • in an effort to draw attention for gay demands
  • for antidiscrimination legislation in Canada.
  • The rally was described by those who
  • were there as a friendly and a really gay event.
  • No problems were encountered with police or bystanders.
  • The rally was highlighted by a release
  • of dozens of colorful helium-filled balloons
  • over downtown Vancouver.
  • A gay arts festival and dance at the University
  • of British Columbia kicked off Gay Pride activities
  • in Vancouver on Friday night.
  • The celebration, which featured music by Lavender Country,
  • drew more than 250 gays.
  • Gay Pride was also celebrated in Saskatoon and Toronto.
  • Canadian Gay Pride activities are
  • scheduled in commemoration of the first demonstration
  • organized in Canada by gay people,
  • on August 28, 1971, when gays demonstrated
  • in Ottawa and Vancouver.
  • The Advocate.
  • In Buffalo, city fire investigators
  • have ruled out arson in the fire which destroyed the Buffalo Gay
  • Services Center March 23.
  • Overheated wiring, the result of 30-amp fuses
  • being used on a 15-amp circuit, were the cause.
  • The Mattachine Society of the Niagara Frontier
  • has relocated in a new community center, at 45
  • Allen Street in Buffalo.
  • WH Auden, considered by many the English-speaking world's
  • leading poet, died Saturday, at the age of 66,
  • in Vienna, Austria.
  • He was born in York, England, but moved to New York City's
  • East Village in 1939.
  • Mr. Auden was awarded the Pulitzer Prize in 1947
  • for his philosophical volume Age of Anxiety.
  • He was the first foreign-born poet to be so honored.
  • In 1972, London newspapers named him as a favorite
  • for the post of poet laureate of England.
  • But Auden withdrew himself from the running
  • by refusing to renounce his American citizenship,
  • gained in 1946.
  • Mr. Auden was a homosexual and displayed a lifelong hatred
  • for the repression of the individual.
  • In the 1930s, he was a passionate supporter
  • of the Spanish Loyalists in their losing
  • struggle with the fascists.
  • Later, he was alternatively drawn
  • to the works of Marx and Freud, with their emphasis
  • on the oppressed and repressed individual.
  • Finally, he turned to Christianity,
  • with its concern for the individual
  • as the ultimate expresser of the most profound values.
  • Throughout his poetry, whether light verse
  • or the works of a more serious nature,
  • Auden sought to discover the nature of love.
  • "Does it look like a pair of pajamas,
  • or a ham in a temperance hotel?
  • Does its odor remind one of llamas,
  • or has it comforting smell?
  • Is it prickly to the touch, as a hedge is,
  • or soft as eiderdown fluff?
  • Is it sharp, or quite smooth, at the edges?
  • Oh, tell me the truth about love."
  • On more personal, more serious, and less abstract vein,
  • he wrote the poem called "Lullaby."
  • "Lay your sleeping head, my love, human on my faithless
  • arm.
  • Time and fevers burn away individual beauty
  • from thoughtful children, and the grave
  • proves the child ephemeral.
  • But in my arms, till break of day,
  • let the living creature lie, mortal, guilty,
  • but to me the entirely beautiful."
  • WH Auden didn't leave us with any easy conclusions.
  • In 1960, he wrote these lines.
  • "Looking up at the stars, I know quite well that, for all they
  • care, I can go to hell."
  • In 1939, prior to the outbreak of the Second World War,
  • he wrote "We must love one another or die."
  • Auden was a poet for all of us, homosexual or heterosexual,
  • black or white, Marxist or Christian.
  • He was capable of the greatest kindness of all.
  • He asked us to make up our own minds
  • and to stand on our own two feet.
  • (Music playing)
  • MAN: (Singing) [INAUDIBLE] to be hanging on to a dream.
  • To a dark and still misty dawning.
  • Oh, something's been torn at the seams, at the seams.
  • It was autumn, and leaves were burning.
  • I dreamed I saw [INAUDIBLE].
  • I saw some leaves that were turning.
  • And the others were raked up and gone, up and gone.
  • Gone like the friend who died on [INAUDIBLE]..
  • Gone like the worm inside the [INAUDIBLE]..
  • Do you think you lay wasted like my [INAUDIBLE]??
  • Well, I know that he longed for [INAUDIBLE]..
  • But he'd hardly come out of the shed.
  • But who'll be scorned, Lord, who'll be forgiven, [INAUDIBLE]
  • brother lays in his dead bed, in his dead bed.
  • And they say don't you go tell his mother
  • about all the pain [INAUDIBLE].
  • [INAUDIBLE] the death shroud [INAUDIBLE]
  • descended on a poor [INAUDIBLE].
  • Gone is the friend who died on [INAUDIBLE]..
  • Gone is the [INAUDIBLE].
  • Do you think he lay wasted like my love?
  • [INAUDIBLE] to be hanging on to a dream.
  • With my love lying beside me, but something's
  • been torn at the seams, the seams.
  • It was autumn, and the leaves were burning.
  • I dreamed I saw [INAUDIBLE].
  • I saw some leaves that were turning.
  • The others were raked up and gone, up and gone.
  • (Music ends)
  • BRUCE JEWELL: This is WCMF, Rochester,
  • and this is the Green Thursday Show, with--
  • I'm beginning to sound like somebody else.
  • This is the Green Thursday Show, with Bruce Jewell.
  • And I've got Bruce Horowitz here,
  • the chairman from University of Rochester GLF.
  • Looks like the title is going to head.
  • I don't know.
  • BRUCE HOROWITZ: I'm not really the chairman--
  • BRUCE JEWELL: You should be on TV.
  • BRUCE HOROWITZ: I have been chairing the meetings,
  • for the past couple of weeks, but we really
  • don't have a chairman or something like that.
  • So it's not a real title.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: OK.
  • I've Bruce Horowitz, the man who's
  • been chairing the meeting at GLF for the last couple of weeks.
  • I'd like to turn to some more personal types of questions,
  • about relationships on the university that you have,
  • and that people--
  • things people have told you.
  • It's clearly there are more gay people
  • at the University of Rochester than show up at your meetings.
  • And, if one wanted a very simple answer,
  • one would say one of the first things they'd
  • fear is the kind of relationships
  • they're likely to have with other students and family
  • and so on.
  • I remember one thing that was very
  • important to me, in college, was the kind of roommate I had.
  • You know, you arrive, and you're assigned a room,
  • very frequently, and there's your roommate.
  • And, if he's a nice guy, that's fine,
  • or-- do they have coed dorms now?
  • Could be a nice girl, too.
  • BRUCE HOROWITZ: Yeah, well, not that far.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: OK. (Laughs) And if he's like Quasimodo, well,
  • that's that.
  • So what kind of--
  • let me ask you how have your relationships with roommates
  • been?
  • BRUCE HOROWITZ: Well, I've had two drastically
  • different experiences, when I was first coming out,
  • last January, I had two roommates last year,
  • instead of just the normal one, because I
  • was in a very large suite.
  • And, when I was coming out, and I decided well,
  • at one point or another I'm going
  • to have to tell my roommates, but I was putting it off.
  • And I had one of the roommates who
  • was consistently in the library, between a certain certain time.
  • And one day I happened to be in a room
  • with a person I was going with at the time.
  • And there was this tremendous banging on the door,
  • and the door was locked.
  • And we were in the shower.
  • So we came out of the shower, and I opened the door.
  • And he came in.
  • He was very mad.
  • He threw me on the bed, and he was trying to beat me up.
  • And he was calling me all sorts of names
  • like, uh-- well, I think he was calling me
  • a "fairy," or something like that,
  • because I wasn't hitting back.
  • And well, my legs were between him
  • and me, so he wasn't really hitting me.
  • So I sent the other person out of the room.
  • And I said, well, this is a good time
  • to tell my roommate that I'm gay.
  • And so I said to him, "Uh, what would you
  • have done if you came back and I was in here with a girl?"
  • And he said, "Oh, that's different, that's different."
  • And I said to him, "No, it's not."
  • And he looked at me kind of funny.
  • He said, "What do you take me for, a fool?"
  • I was soaking wet, half dressed, just out of the shower,
  • with someone else of the same sex,
  • and I just told him I was gay, and I
  • was expecting he was a fool.
  • So I said "No, it's true."
  • And he looked at me and said, "Well, doesn't matter to me,
  • doesn't make any difference, doesn't matter to me."
  • And I said, "Fine."
  • I left and I came back two hours later,
  • and he was in the process of moving out.
  • And he left that very night.
  • Never saw him again.
  • My other roommate, I said, well, I better tell him, too.
  • And he said, "Well, so what?
  • If you haven't attacked me in the month
  • that we've been living together, I
  • don't see why you're going to start now."
  • I much prefer the reaction of the second roommate.
  • This year, I'm living in something
  • called the Center for Medieval Studies, which
  • is a house with about twenty-one people in it.
  • And I didn't really want to make a big issue of my homosexuality
  • and call a house meeting and say, hey, look,
  • everybody I'm a faggot.
  • Watch out.
  • Because I thought that was carrying too much towards it.
  • So I just sort of let things ride.
  • But I put an 8-by-10 glossy of my lover
  • on the wall and another picture and a lambda button.
  • And, by the time I started getting flowers from my lover,
  • people were a little bit used to the idea that I was gay.
  • And I never hid it, but I never made an issue of it.
  • And now everyone knows, and I don't
  • think anyone really cares.
  • It's very important to me what other people reactions
  • are, because I'm opening something up to them
  • which I could very well keep hidden.
  • And when someone just sort of moves out and treats me
  • like a piece of dirt afterwards, it
  • doesn't make me feel too good.
  • While, when I get a reaction of, well,
  • what difference does it make, it just
  • makes me feel very much better, and I think
  • they feel good about it too.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Do you get more of this,
  • I would say is a sensible reaction, what difference does
  • it make, but you get more of that kind of reaction than--
  • BRUCE HOROWITZ: Yeah, I think you get much more reaction,
  • what difference does it make, because most people are sane,
  • and they think a little bit.
  • And I get a good reaction.
  • It's not-- of all the people I've told,
  • only my first roommate is the one who ran away from me.
  • And all the rest have just sort of either
  • written it down to my general insanity or just
  • said, "So what?"
  • Yeah.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: How does faculty react?
  • You mentioned you'd spoken in front of psychology classes,
  • so you've had an opportunity to talk to faculty--
  • or at least when faculty was present.
  • BRUCE HOROWITZ: Well, the Psych 101
  • is a special case, because they're
  • more-- they're very much for us.
  • They invited us to speak.
  • And their reaction was very friendly.
  • And--
  • Oh, at one point, as a matter of fact, during the class,
  • I asked the class in general how many people would be upset
  • if a friend of theirs was gay.
  • And about, oh, a third to half the class raised their hand.
  • And I said, well, how many people would be upset
  • if a brother or sister was gay?
  • And I would say just about every person
  • in the class raised their hand.
  • And one of the professors of the course started laughing.
  • And she turned around and said to the class,
  • "You know what that is?
  • It's-- they're OK in their place,
  • but I wouldn't want my sister to marry one."
  • So they're pretty much for us.
  • I've never told any of my actual professors
  • that I was gay, because I don't think it has
  • any relevance to my schoolwork.
  • I have always consistently argued for or against people--
  • professors when they've had slurs
  • on homosexuality in certain classes--
  • literature classes, and things like that.
  • And I won't let them go by.
  • But well, I suppose there are a lot of gay professors, too.
  • So--
  • BRUCE JEWELL: I don't know.
  • I was thinking about--
  • one of the obvious things in college
  • is that very frequently men who are accomplished
  • in a field, such as Auden who we were talking about tonight,
  • are not ever mentioned as being homosexual.
  • And, in fact, that's utterly avoided even though,
  • if you read their works or something,
  • it can be a rather clear influence on them.
  • I remember on one occasion I knew a very educated author
  • who had written--
  • a person that I was really very fond of.
  • But she was very, for personal reasons, very antihomosexual.
  • And she frequently, when talking about gay painters or authors
  • or philosophers, made--
  • kind of slurred them.
  • And I noticed this.
  • And it so happened that one of her heroes was Socrates.
  • And she never mentioned that Socrates, of course,
  • was probably a homosexual, if not bisexual.
  • And I couldn't resist, one day.
  • I turned to her, when she was talking
  • about how great Socrates was, and I turned to her,
  • and I said, "Well, you know, he was homosexual, too."
  • And it was kind of a jab.
  • But sometimes I felt like championing a few--
  • BRUCE HOROWITZ: Well, I'm taking a French Lit course
  • this semester.
  • And we've read so far books by Gide and Jean Cocteau.
  • And we're going to read some Proust.
  • And we've talked about these books rather extensively.
  • And I don't think once in class has the sexual orientation
  • of the authors been mentioned.
  • And it does have some relevance to their work,
  • but it's something that's sort of avoided again--
  • annihilation by ignoring.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: I would, for example,
  • would be happy to point out that Cocteau is one
  • of the original Gay Lib people.
  • If you've ever read his book The White Paper,
  • he was thinking 30 years ago what
  • is now current thought among homosexuals.
  • Well, let's see.
  • We'll turn to some more music and give ourselves a rest,
  • here.
  • Coming up is the J. Geils band, a piece called "Wait."
  • (Music - J. Geils Band, "Wait")
  • PETER WOLF: (Singing)) I went down to the local bar,
  • to have a drink or two.
  • As I was marching towards the jukebox, my eyes fell on you.
  • The bartender said you're disengaged.
  • And I saw you trying to look my way.
  • I said, now, wait--
  • stop, a minute.
  • I said, now, don't go too far.
  • I said, now, wait--
  • stop, a minute, cause I really, really, really got to have you.
  • I always see you walking in the street.
  • Always looking so nice and neat.
  • Always got you on my mind.
  • I know we're gonna have a good time.
  • Bartender said you're disengaged.
  • And I saw you trying to look my way.
  • I said wait-- stop, a minute.
  • I said don't go too far.
  • I said, now, wait--
  • stop, a minute, cause I really, really, really got to have you.
  • Oh, yeah!
  • (Harmonica solo)
  • I said, now, wait--
  • stop, a minute.
  • I said, now, don't go too far.
  • I said, now, wait--
  • stop, a minute.
  • I said, now, don't go too far.
  • Oh, yeah!
  • I said, wait-- stop, a minute.
  • I said, now, don't go too far.
  • I said, wait-- stop, a minute.
  • I said, now, don't go too far.
  • Take it all!
  • Wait-- stop, a minute.
  • I said, don't go too far, no, baby.
  • I said, wait-- stop, a minute.
  • I said, don't, don't go too far.
  • I'm looking all right, baby, looking all right.
  • Let me buy you a drink.
  • Everything will be alright.
  • I said, now, wait--
  • (Music fades out)
  • BRUCE JEWELL: OK.
  • The last kind of thing I'd like to get into
  • is, what kind of people do you think come out
  • at the University of Rochester?
  • What kind of people do you think stay in?
  • And what do you think the reasons are?
  • BRUCE HOROWITZ: Well, I like to say
  • that the GLF is a very heterogeneous homosexual group,
  • that we have, amongst our members, a wide variety
  • of backgrounds and personalities of people.
  • And it's very nice in that fact, that we're very much not
  • all the same type of people.
  • I have some friends-- and I happen
  • to agree with the same sort of thing--
  • that, just because you don't come to our GLF meanings
  • does not mean that you're not a happy, adjusted, gay person.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Don't know if this is heresy or not.
  • We'll have to think about it.
  • No, go ahead.
  • BRUCE HOROWITZ: Well, no, I think it's--
  • BRUCE JEWELL: I agree.
  • BRUCE HOROWITZ: --there are a lot of gay people
  • who are perfectly happy and may be
  • very open with their friends.
  • And just because I don't know about them through the GLF
  • doesn't mean they don't exist.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Mhm.
  • BRUCE HOROWITZ: I think that we could
  • have a lot more people out at the University of Rochester
  • than are.
  • But, since there are a lot of premedical students,
  • pre-law students, and people worried about their futures,
  • they're very nervous to do anything
  • to put a slur on their record.
  • They won't even take Fine Arts courses,
  • because that's frowned upon by medical schools.
  • So I think there's a lot of nervousness about that.
  • But we've gotten a lot of new members,
  • this year, and a lot of people who just drop by,
  • and we're very encouraged.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: I'm kind of hoping that some U of R students
  • are listening to this program and would consider
  • coming to your meetings.
  • When are those meetings?
  • BRUCE HOROWITZ: Oh, they're alternate Monday nights.
  • We have a meeting this Monday night, 7:30.
  • We meet in Gannett Lounge, in the Hill.
  • And any student is welcome.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: It's completely a students' group, now.
  • BRUCE HOROWITZ: Completely a student group.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: That's very good.
  • OK, is there any last thing you'd like to say?
  • BRUCE HOROWITZ: I'd like to give a plug.
  • We're going to have our own little radio show, on WRUR.
  • I think the time isn't set yet, but you can look it up
  • in the Campus Times.
  • I think it's going to be Sunday nights, where--
  • our own little gay show, starting
  • this week or next week.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Maybe you'll get a chance to interview me.
  • BRUCE HOROWITZ: Oh, that would be fun.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: OK.
  • Coming up, Cat Stevens, "100 I Dream."
  • (Music - Cat Stevens, "100 I Dream"]
  • CAT STEVENS: (Singing) They brang us up
  • with horns and Hollywooden songs,
  • dead snakes and poisoned wisdoms between our teeth.
  • The evil that's been done still is carrying on.
  • And on this night there'll be no peace.
  • The old leaders' bones still beat on our homes.
  • They built our life before us.
  • We had no choice.
  • The evil that's been done still is carrying on.
  • And when they're gone we'll be the voice.
  • Blue bird on a rock, slow wind blowing soft
  • across the bare face of the sleeping lake,
  • rise up and be free.
  • Voice, whisper to me.
  • And, in this way, you will awake.
  • Go climb up on the hill, stand perfectly still,
  • and silently soak up the day.
  • Don't rush and don't you roam.
  • Don't feel so alone.
  • And, in this way, you will awake.
  • And, in this way, you will awake.
  • In this way, you will awake.
  • Pick up the pieces you see before you.
  • Don't let your weaknesses destroy you.
  • You know wherever you go, the world will follow.
  • So let your reasons be true to you.
  • Stay close to your friends up until the end.
  • And when they know that you'll be the same way,
  • rise up and be free, and die happily.
  • And, in this way, you will awake.
  • And, in this way, you will awake.
  • In this way, you will awake.
  • Awake.
  • Come on, come on, and awake.
  • (Music ends)
  • BRUCE JEWELL: In June of this year,
  • there was an open hearing on the proposed city charter.
  • At that time, Bob Crystal, as a representative
  • of Gays for Political Action, and another man
  • as a representative for the Gay Alliance of the Genesee Valley,
  • approached the city charter commission,
  • in an effort to put in a nondiscrimination
  • clause for the protection of minority groups,
  • including gay people.
  • What follows is an interview with Bob Crystal,
  • concerning the fate of that attempt.
  • Bob, in June of this year, you as a representative
  • of Gays for Political Action and another man representative
  • the Gay Alliance of the Genesee Valley
  • attended a public meeting of the city charter commission.
  • What happened at that meeting?
  • BOB CRYSTAL: Well, we noted to the commissioners
  • at that meeting that the charter, as it stands today,
  • and the amended charter, as they are going to submit it
  • to the voters in November, does not have a clause prohibiting
  • discrimination.
  • And we suggested there that a phrase
  • be inserted that the City would not discriminate
  • because of race, creed, color, national origin, sex,
  • or sexual orientation, in their hiring
  • or firing or contracting for bids.
  • And, to put teeth into the situation,
  • we suggested further that they insert a phrase
  • that not only the City would not discriminate
  • but the City would not accept bids from firms
  • which did discriminate.
  • The effect of that phrase is that no public funds
  • would be used to support discriminatory practices.
  • And, since the City hires and contracts firms
  • from all over the country, the impact
  • of Rochester having a phrase like this in the charter
  • would be felt nationwide.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Are there any other cities
  • in the United States which have similar phrases
  • in their constitutions or city charters or whatever?
  • BOB CRYSTAL: To date, there are three others--
  • Ann Arbor, Michigan, San Francisco, and, just recently,
  • Washington, DC.
  • All three have phrases very similar to the one
  • that we proposed to the commission.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Then Rochester would
  • have been the fourth state in the country
  • and-- or, rather, the fourth city in the country-- to
  • have such a phrase and the first city in the state of New York
  • to have such clauses.
  • BOB CRYSTAL: Yes.
  • The impact of four cities with such clauses
  • would be tremendous in this country.
  • And it would be very good to have Rochester be one of them.
  • We do a lot of--
  • we have a lot of influence all over the country, as it is now.
  • And it would be good.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: What happened after you
  • suggested that these two clauses be placed in the city charter?
  • BOB CRYSTAL: The commissioners who were at the public meeting
  • were very enthusiastic and told us
  • that they would work to get the phrases that we suggested put
  • into the commission--
  • the commission's proposed charter.
  • Ideally, what might have happened
  • was that the commission would have acted
  • and our phrases would have been part of the charter submitted
  • to the voters in November.
  • Unfortunately, the ideal did not happen,
  • and the teeth were pulled at the business
  • meeting of the commission.
  • Only the phrase that the City would not discriminate
  • was put into the proposed charter.
  • Even more unfortunately, when the proposed amendment
  • was submitted to the executive committee of the commission,
  • they blue-lined, or edited out, the phrase
  • "sexual orientation."
  • So that as it is going to be submitted to the voters,
  • it reads that the City will not discriminate
  • against anyone for reasons of race, creed, color,
  • national origin, or sex.
  • They left us out.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: It's obviously ironic
  • that two representatives of gay groups
  • suggested that antidiscrimination clauses be
  • placed in the charter and found themselves once again
  • discriminated against in the placing of the clauses
  • for their own protection.
  • However, there has been, I think, some advance
  • made for other people.
  • BOB CRYSTAL: Well, unfortunately, there
  • is no phrase in the charter which
  • prevents the commission from discriminating against anyone
  • for sexual orientation.
  • The irony is felt, very strongly.
  • I'm very proud of the fact that it
  • was the gay groups, Gays for Political Action
  • and Gay Alliance of the Genesee Valley,
  • which proposed and were the instigators
  • of such antidiscrimination clauses.
  • As I've said before, gay rights is not specifically
  • for gay people.
  • It's for everyone.
  • And, if someone can get away with discriminating
  • against gay people, that's one foot in the door.
  • And pretty soon you'll find that if one group is indefensible,
  • then everyone else becomes indefensible.
  • And anyone can discriminate against anyone.
  • I'm reminded of the phrase from Catch-22--
  • "They're allowed to do anything that we can't prevent them
  • from doing."
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Do you think sometime
  • in the future there's a hope that we will gain some rights?
  • BOB CRYSTAL: Well, I don't intend
  • to stop instigating and pushing.
  • No one's going to discriminate against me, if I
  • have anything to say about it.
  • BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you very much, Bob.