Green Thursday, radio program, September 1973
- (Music - David Ackles, "Blue Ribbons"]
- DAVID ACKLES: (Singing) --took him from me
- on black and shiny wings of song.
- Upon a wind of freedom swept along.
- My raven's gone.
- They took him from me.
- I hear the laughter of their hate
- and see the arrows fly from freedom's gate.
- I don't wear blue ribbons now.
- I don't wind my heart with laces.
- I don't smile at lovers now, I wind my eyes
- with rivers from the places they will find.
- The world is full of lovers loving hate and only loving
- others of their kind.
- My love is gone, but love is with me.
- The song he sang is in me now.
- The tree of love will bear a loving bough.
- Though he is gone, his voice is in me.
- I hear him shout, I am not blind, I am a man,
- and men are all one kind.
- I don't wear blue ribbons now.
- I don't wind my heart with laces.
- I don't smile at lovers now, I wind my eyes
- with rivers from the places they will find.
- The world is full of lovers loving hate and only loving
- others of their kind.
- But maybe they are learning now.
- Maybe just a few are learning.
- (Music ends)
- BRUCE JEWELL: This is Bruce Jewell again,
- and this is the news.
- The Reverend Dr. William E. Alberts, the Boston minister
- who lost his ministry after performing a gay marriage
- ceremony in defiance of his bishop,
- says he has been forced to file for bankruptcy.
- Said Rev. Alberts, "My monetary bankruptcy
- is a commentary on the moral bankruptcy of the Southern New
- England Conference of the United Methodist Church."
- The Southern New England Conference
- voted June 8 to forcibly retire Dr. Alberts, then pastor
- of Boston's Old West Church, after Bishop Edward G. Carroll
- made plain that Alberts would not
- be reappointed to Old West or any other church.
- All efforts to negotiate a monetary settlement
- of some kind failed.
- Dr. Alberts said that, after twenty-four years in the United
- Methodist ministry, during which, quote,
- "I struggled to make ends meet," unquote,
- he had built up a staggering indebtedness,
- and a budget counselor had advised him to consider
- bankruptcy as early as 1966.
- The forced retirement, said Dr. Alberts,
- was not the final straw, but the mortal blow.
- During the witch hunt that resulted from the gay marriage
- ceremony, Dr. Alberts said, quote,
- "I have encountered some of the most devious, cruel,
- and cowardly people I've ever met in my whole life,
- all within the very institution I loved and served
- for twenty-four years."
- Advocate, 121.
- This year's Gay Pride festivities in Vancouver,
- British Columbia, were the largest ever
- in that Canadian province.
- The event was marked by an hour-long rally at the downtown
- courthouse, August 25.
- The rally was sponsored by the Gay Alliance towards Equality
- in an effort to draw attention for gay demands
- for antidiscrimination legislation in Canada.
- The rally was described by those who
- were there as a friendly and a really gay event.
- No problems were encountered with police or bystanders.
- The rally was highlighted by a release
- of dozens of colorful helium-filled balloons
- over downtown Vancouver.
- A gay arts festival and dance at the University
- of British Columbia kicked off Gay Pride activities
- in Vancouver on Friday night.
- The celebration, which featured music by Lavender Country,
- drew more than 250 gays.
- Gay Pride was also celebrated in Saskatoon and Toronto.
- Canadian Gay Pride activities are
- scheduled in commemoration of the first demonstration
- organized in Canada by gay people,
- on August 28, 1971, when gays demonstrated
- in Ottawa and Vancouver.
- The Advocate.
- In Buffalo, city fire investigators
- have ruled out arson in the fire which destroyed the Buffalo Gay
- Services Center March 23.
- Overheated wiring, the result of 30-amp fuses
- being used on a 15-amp circuit, were the cause.
- The Mattachine Society of the Niagara Frontier
- has relocated in a new community center, at 45
- Allen Street in Buffalo.
- WH Auden, considered by many the English-speaking world's
- leading poet, died Saturday, at the age of 66,
- in Vienna, Austria.
- He was born in York, England, but moved to New York City's
- East Village in 1939.
- Mr. Auden was awarded the Pulitzer Prize in 1947
- for his philosophical volume Age of Anxiety.
- He was the first foreign-born poet to be so honored.
- In 1972, London newspapers named him as a favorite
- for the post of poet laureate of England.
- But Auden withdrew himself from the running
- by refusing to renounce his American citizenship,
- gained in 1946.
- Mr. Auden was a homosexual and displayed a lifelong hatred
- for the repression of the individual.
- In the 1930s, he was a passionate supporter
- of the Spanish Loyalists in their losing
- struggle with the fascists.
- Later, he was alternatively drawn
- to the works of Marx and Freud, with their emphasis
- on the oppressed and repressed individual.
- Finally, he turned to Christianity,
- with its concern for the individual
- as the ultimate expresser of the most profound values.
- Throughout his poetry, whether light verse
- or the works of a more serious nature,
- Auden sought to discover the nature of love.
- "Does it look like a pair of pajamas,
- or a ham in a temperance hotel?
- Does its odor remind one of llamas,
- or has it comforting smell?
- Is it prickly to the touch, as a hedge is,
- or soft as eiderdown fluff?
- Is it sharp, or quite smooth, at the edges?
- Oh, tell me the truth about love."
- On more personal, more serious, and less abstract vein,
- he wrote the poem called "Lullaby."
- "Lay your sleeping head, my love, human on my faithless
- arm.
- Time and fevers burn away individual beauty
- from thoughtful children, and the grave
- proves the child ephemeral.
- But in my arms, till break of day,
- let the living creature lie, mortal, guilty,
- but to me the entirely beautiful."
- WH Auden didn't leave us with any easy conclusions.
- In 1960, he wrote these lines.
- "Looking up at the stars, I know quite well that, for all they
- care, I can go to hell."
- In 1939, prior to the outbreak of the Second World War,
- he wrote "We must love one another or die."
- Auden was a poet for all of us, homosexual or heterosexual,
- black or white, Marxist or Christian.
- He was capable of the greatest kindness of all.
- He asked us to make up our own minds
- and to stand on our own two feet.
- (Music playing)
- MAN: (Singing) [INAUDIBLE] to be hanging on to a dream.
- To a dark and still misty dawning.
- Oh, something's been torn at the seams, at the seams.
- It was autumn, and leaves were burning.
- I dreamed I saw [INAUDIBLE].
- I saw some leaves that were turning.
- And the others were raked up and gone, up and gone.
- Gone like the friend who died on [INAUDIBLE]..
- Gone like the worm inside the [INAUDIBLE]..
- Do you think you lay wasted like my [INAUDIBLE]??
- Well, I know that he longed for [INAUDIBLE]..
- But he'd hardly come out of the shed.
- But who'll be scorned, Lord, who'll be forgiven, [INAUDIBLE]
- brother lays in his dead bed, in his dead bed.
- And they say don't you go tell his mother
- about all the pain [INAUDIBLE].
- [INAUDIBLE] the death shroud [INAUDIBLE]
- descended on a poor [INAUDIBLE].
- Gone is the friend who died on [INAUDIBLE]..
- Gone is the [INAUDIBLE].
- Do you think he lay wasted like my love?
- [INAUDIBLE] to be hanging on to a dream.
- With my love lying beside me, but something's
- been torn at the seams, the seams.
- It was autumn, and the leaves were burning.
- I dreamed I saw [INAUDIBLE].
- I saw some leaves that were turning.
- The others were raked up and gone, up and gone.
- (Music ends)
- BRUCE JEWELL: This is WCMF, Rochester,
- and this is the Green Thursday Show, with--
- I'm beginning to sound like somebody else.
- This is the Green Thursday Show, with Bruce Jewell.
- And I've got Bruce Horowitz here,
- the chairman from University of Rochester GLF.
- Looks like the title is going to head.
- I don't know.
- BRUCE HOROWITZ: I'm not really the chairman--
- BRUCE JEWELL: You should be on TV.
- BRUCE HOROWITZ: I have been chairing the meetings,
- for the past couple of weeks, but we really
- don't have a chairman or something like that.
- So it's not a real title.
- BRUCE JEWELL: OK.
- I've Bruce Horowitz, the man who's
- been chairing the meeting at GLF for the last couple of weeks.
- I'd like to turn to some more personal types of questions,
- about relationships on the university that you have,
- and that people--
- things people have told you.
- It's clearly there are more gay people
- at the University of Rochester than show up at your meetings.
- And, if one wanted a very simple answer,
- one would say one of the first things they'd
- fear is the kind of relationships
- they're likely to have with other students and family
- and so on.
- I remember one thing that was very
- important to me, in college, was the kind of roommate I had.
- You know, you arrive, and you're assigned a room,
- very frequently, and there's your roommate.
- And, if he's a nice guy, that's fine,
- or-- do they have coed dorms now?
- Could be a nice girl, too.
- BRUCE HOROWITZ: Yeah, well, not that far.
- BRUCE JEWELL: OK. (Laughs) And if he's like Quasimodo, well,
- that's that.
- So what kind of--
- let me ask you how have your relationships with roommates
- been?
- BRUCE HOROWITZ: Well, I've had two drastically
- different experiences, when I was first coming out,
- last January, I had two roommates last year,
- instead of just the normal one, because I
- was in a very large suite.
- And, when I was coming out, and I decided well,
- at one point or another I'm going
- to have to tell my roommates, but I was putting it off.
- And I had one of the roommates who
- was consistently in the library, between a certain certain time.
- And one day I happened to be in a room
- with a person I was going with at the time.
- And there was this tremendous banging on the door,
- and the door was locked.
- And we were in the shower.
- So we came out of the shower, and I opened the door.
- And he came in.
- He was very mad.
- He threw me on the bed, and he was trying to beat me up.
- And he was calling me all sorts of names
- like, uh-- well, I think he was calling me
- a "fairy," or something like that,
- because I wasn't hitting back.
- And well, my legs were between him
- and me, so he wasn't really hitting me.
- So I sent the other person out of the room.
- And I said, well, this is a good time
- to tell my roommate that I'm gay.
- And so I said to him, "Uh, what would you
- have done if you came back and I was in here with a girl?"
- And he said, "Oh, that's different, that's different."
- And I said to him, "No, it's not."
- And he looked at me kind of funny.
- He said, "What do you take me for, a fool?"
- I was soaking wet, half dressed, just out of the shower,
- with someone else of the same sex,
- and I just told him I was gay, and I
- was expecting he was a fool.
- So I said "No, it's true."
- And he looked at me and said, "Well, doesn't matter to me,
- doesn't make any difference, doesn't matter to me."
- And I said, "Fine."
- I left and I came back two hours later,
- and he was in the process of moving out.
- And he left that very night.
- Never saw him again.
- My other roommate, I said, well, I better tell him, too.
- And he said, "Well, so what?
- If you haven't attacked me in the month
- that we've been living together, I
- don't see why you're going to start now."
- I much prefer the reaction of the second roommate.
- This year, I'm living in something
- called the Center for Medieval Studies, which
- is a house with about twenty-one people in it.
- And I didn't really want to make a big issue of my homosexuality
- and call a house meeting and say, hey, look,
- everybody I'm a faggot.
- Watch out.
- Because I thought that was carrying too much towards it.
- So I just sort of let things ride.
- But I put an 8-by-10 glossy of my lover
- on the wall and another picture and a lambda button.
- And, by the time I started getting flowers from my lover,
- people were a little bit used to the idea that I was gay.
- And I never hid it, but I never made an issue of it.
- And now everyone knows, and I don't
- think anyone really cares.
- It's very important to me what other people reactions
- are, because I'm opening something up to them
- which I could very well keep hidden.
- And when someone just sort of moves out and treats me
- like a piece of dirt afterwards, it
- doesn't make me feel too good.
- While, when I get a reaction of, well,
- what difference does it make, it just
- makes me feel very much better, and I think
- they feel good about it too.
- BRUCE JEWELL: Do you get more of this,
- I would say is a sensible reaction, what difference does
- it make, but you get more of that kind of reaction than--
- BRUCE HOROWITZ: Yeah, I think you get much more reaction,
- what difference does it make, because most people are sane,
- and they think a little bit.
- And I get a good reaction.
- It's not-- of all the people I've told,
- only my first roommate is the one who ran away from me.
- And all the rest have just sort of either
- written it down to my general insanity or just
- said, "So what?"
- Yeah.
- BRUCE JEWELL: How does faculty react?
- You mentioned you'd spoken in front of psychology classes,
- so you've had an opportunity to talk to faculty--
- or at least when faculty was present.
- BRUCE HOROWITZ: Well, the Psych 101
- is a special case, because they're
- more-- they're very much for us.
- They invited us to speak.
- And their reaction was very friendly.
- And--
- Oh, at one point, as a matter of fact, during the class,
- I asked the class in general how many people would be upset
- if a friend of theirs was gay.
- And about, oh, a third to half the class raised their hand.
- And I said, well, how many people would be upset
- if a brother or sister was gay?
- And I would say just about every person
- in the class raised their hand.
- And one of the professors of the course started laughing.
- And she turned around and said to the class,
- "You know what that is?
- It's-- they're OK in their place,
- but I wouldn't want my sister to marry one."
- So they're pretty much for us.
- I've never told any of my actual professors
- that I was gay, because I don't think it has
- any relevance to my schoolwork.
- I have always consistently argued for or against people--
- professors when they've had slurs
- on homosexuality in certain classes--
- literature classes, and things like that.
- And I won't let them go by.
- But well, I suppose there are a lot of gay professors, too.
- So--
- BRUCE JEWELL: I don't know.
- I was thinking about--
- one of the obvious things in college
- is that very frequently men who are accomplished
- in a field, such as Auden who we were talking about tonight,
- are not ever mentioned as being homosexual.
- And, in fact, that's utterly avoided even though,
- if you read their works or something,
- it can be a rather clear influence on them.
- I remember on one occasion I knew a very educated author
- who had written--
- a person that I was really very fond of.
- But she was very, for personal reasons, very antihomosexual.
- And she frequently, when talking about gay painters or authors
- or philosophers, made--
- kind of slurred them.
- And I noticed this.
- And it so happened that one of her heroes was Socrates.
- And she never mentioned that Socrates, of course,
- was probably a homosexual, if not bisexual.
- And I couldn't resist, one day.
- I turned to her, when she was talking
- about how great Socrates was, and I turned to her,
- and I said, "Well, you know, he was homosexual, too."
- And it was kind of a jab.
- But sometimes I felt like championing a few--
- BRUCE HOROWITZ: Well, I'm taking a French Lit course
- this semester.
- And we've read so far books by Gide and Jean Cocteau.
- And we're going to read some Proust.
- And we've talked about these books rather extensively.
- And I don't think once in class has the sexual orientation
- of the authors been mentioned.
- And it does have some relevance to their work,
- but it's something that's sort of avoided again--
- annihilation by ignoring.
- BRUCE JEWELL: I would, for example,
- would be happy to point out that Cocteau is one
- of the original Gay Lib people.
- If you've ever read his book The White Paper,
- he was thinking 30 years ago what
- is now current thought among homosexuals.
- Well, let's see.
- We'll turn to some more music and give ourselves a rest,
- here.
- Coming up is the J. Geils band, a piece called "Wait."
- (Music - J. Geils Band, "Wait")
- PETER WOLF: (Singing)) I went down to the local bar,
- to have a drink or two.
- As I was marching towards the jukebox, my eyes fell on you.
- The bartender said you're disengaged.
- And I saw you trying to look my way.
- I said, now, wait--
- stop, a minute.
- I said, now, don't go too far.
- I said, now, wait--
- stop, a minute, cause I really, really, really got to have you.
- I always see you walking in the street.
- Always looking so nice and neat.
- Always got you on my mind.
- I know we're gonna have a good time.
- Bartender said you're disengaged.
- And I saw you trying to look my way.
- I said wait-- stop, a minute.
- I said don't go too far.
- I said, now, wait--
- stop, a minute, cause I really, really, really got to have you.
- Oh, yeah!
- (Harmonica solo)
- I said, now, wait--
- stop, a minute.
- I said, now, don't go too far.
- I said, now, wait--
- stop, a minute.
- I said, now, don't go too far.
- Oh, yeah!
- I said, wait-- stop, a minute.
- I said, now, don't go too far.
- I said, wait-- stop, a minute.
- I said, now, don't go too far.
- Take it all!
- Wait-- stop, a minute.
- I said, don't go too far, no, baby.
- I said, wait-- stop, a minute.
- I said, don't, don't go too far.
- I'm looking all right, baby, looking all right.
- Let me buy you a drink.
- Everything will be alright.
- I said, now, wait--
- (Music fades out)
- BRUCE JEWELL: OK.
- The last kind of thing I'd like to get into
- is, what kind of people do you think come out
- at the University of Rochester?
- What kind of people do you think stay in?
- And what do you think the reasons are?
- BRUCE HOROWITZ: Well, I like to say
- that the GLF is a very heterogeneous homosexual group,
- that we have, amongst our members, a wide variety
- of backgrounds and personalities of people.
- And it's very nice in that fact, that we're very much not
- all the same type of people.
- I have some friends-- and I happen
- to agree with the same sort of thing--
- that, just because you don't come to our GLF meanings
- does not mean that you're not a happy, adjusted, gay person.
- BRUCE JEWELL: Don't know if this is heresy or not.
- We'll have to think about it.
- No, go ahead.
- BRUCE HOROWITZ: Well, no, I think it's--
- BRUCE JEWELL: I agree.
- BRUCE HOROWITZ: --there are a lot of gay people
- who are perfectly happy and may be
- very open with their friends.
- And just because I don't know about them through the GLF
- doesn't mean they don't exist.
- BRUCE JEWELL: Mhm.
- BRUCE HOROWITZ: I think that we could
- have a lot more people out at the University of Rochester
- than are.
- But, since there are a lot of premedical students,
- pre-law students, and people worried about their futures,
- they're very nervous to do anything
- to put a slur on their record.
- They won't even take Fine Arts courses,
- because that's frowned upon by medical schools.
- So I think there's a lot of nervousness about that.
- But we've gotten a lot of new members,
- this year, and a lot of people who just drop by,
- and we're very encouraged.
- BRUCE JEWELL: I'm kind of hoping that some U of R students
- are listening to this program and would consider
- coming to your meetings.
- When are those meetings?
- BRUCE HOROWITZ: Oh, they're alternate Monday nights.
- We have a meeting this Monday night, 7:30.
- We meet in Gannett Lounge, in the Hill.
- And any student is welcome.
- BRUCE JEWELL: It's completely a students' group, now.
- BRUCE HOROWITZ: Completely a student group.
- BRUCE JEWELL: That's very good.
- OK, is there any last thing you'd like to say?
- BRUCE HOROWITZ: I'd like to give a plug.
- We're going to have our own little radio show, on WRUR.
- I think the time isn't set yet, but you can look it up
- in the Campus Times.
- I think it's going to be Sunday nights, where--
- our own little gay show, starting
- this week or next week.
- BRUCE JEWELL: Maybe you'll get a chance to interview me.
- BRUCE HOROWITZ: Oh, that would be fun.
- BRUCE JEWELL: OK.
- Coming up, Cat Stevens, "100 I Dream."
- (Music - Cat Stevens, "100 I Dream"]
- CAT STEVENS: (Singing) They brang us up
- with horns and Hollywooden songs,
- dead snakes and poisoned wisdoms between our teeth.
- The evil that's been done still is carrying on.
- And on this night there'll be no peace.
- The old leaders' bones still beat on our homes.
- They built our life before us.
- We had no choice.
- The evil that's been done still is carrying on.
- And when they're gone we'll be the voice.
- Blue bird on a rock, slow wind blowing soft
- across the bare face of the sleeping lake,
- rise up and be free.
- Voice, whisper to me.
- And, in this way, you will awake.
- Go climb up on the hill, stand perfectly still,
- and silently soak up the day.
- Don't rush and don't you roam.
- Don't feel so alone.
- And, in this way, you will awake.
- And, in this way, you will awake.
- In this way, you will awake.
- Pick up the pieces you see before you.
- Don't let your weaknesses destroy you.
- You know wherever you go, the world will follow.
- So let your reasons be true to you.
- Stay close to your friends up until the end.
- And when they know that you'll be the same way,
- rise up and be free, and die happily.
- And, in this way, you will awake.
- And, in this way, you will awake.
- In this way, you will awake.
- Awake.
- Come on, come on, and awake.
- (Music ends)
- BRUCE JEWELL: In June of this year,
- there was an open hearing on the proposed city charter.
- At that time, Bob Crystal, as a representative
- of Gays for Political Action, and another man
- as a representative for the Gay Alliance of the Genesee Valley,
- approached the city charter commission,
- in an effort to put in a nondiscrimination
- clause for the protection of minority groups,
- including gay people.
- What follows is an interview with Bob Crystal,
- concerning the fate of that attempt.
- Bob, in June of this year, you as a representative
- of Gays for Political Action and another man representative
- the Gay Alliance of the Genesee Valley
- attended a public meeting of the city charter commission.
- What happened at that meeting?
- BOB CRYSTAL: Well, we noted to the commissioners
- at that meeting that the charter, as it stands today,
- and the amended charter, as they are going to submit it
- to the voters in November, does not have a clause prohibiting
- discrimination.
- And we suggested there that a phrase
- be inserted that the City would not discriminate
- because of race, creed, color, national origin, sex,
- or sexual orientation, in their hiring
- or firing or contracting for bids.
- And, to put teeth into the situation,
- we suggested further that they insert a phrase
- that not only the City would not discriminate
- but the City would not accept bids from firms
- which did discriminate.
- The effect of that phrase is that no public funds
- would be used to support discriminatory practices.
- And, since the City hires and contracts firms
- from all over the country, the impact
- of Rochester having a phrase like this in the charter
- would be felt nationwide.
- BRUCE JEWELL: Are there any other cities
- in the United States which have similar phrases
- in their constitutions or city charters or whatever?
- BOB CRYSTAL: To date, there are three others--
- Ann Arbor, Michigan, San Francisco, and, just recently,
- Washington, DC.
- All three have phrases very similar to the one
- that we proposed to the commission.
- BRUCE JEWELL: Then Rochester would
- have been the fourth state in the country
- and-- or, rather, the fourth city in the country-- to
- have such a phrase and the first city in the state of New York
- to have such clauses.
- BOB CRYSTAL: Yes.
- The impact of four cities with such clauses
- would be tremendous in this country.
- And it would be very good to have Rochester be one of them.
- We do a lot of--
- we have a lot of influence all over the country, as it is now.
- And it would be good.
- BRUCE JEWELL: What happened after you
- suggested that these two clauses be placed in the city charter?
- BOB CRYSTAL: The commissioners who were at the public meeting
- were very enthusiastic and told us
- that they would work to get the phrases that we suggested put
- into the commission--
- the commission's proposed charter.
- Ideally, what might have happened
- was that the commission would have acted
- and our phrases would have been part of the charter submitted
- to the voters in November.
- Unfortunately, the ideal did not happen,
- and the teeth were pulled at the business
- meeting of the commission.
- Only the phrase that the City would not discriminate
- was put into the proposed charter.
- Even more unfortunately, when the proposed amendment
- was submitted to the executive committee of the commission,
- they blue-lined, or edited out, the phrase
- "sexual orientation."
- So that as it is going to be submitted to the voters,
- it reads that the City will not discriminate
- against anyone for reasons of race, creed, color,
- national origin, or sex.
- They left us out.
- BRUCE JEWELL: It's obviously ironic
- that two representatives of gay groups
- suggested that antidiscrimination clauses be
- placed in the charter and found themselves once again
- discriminated against in the placing of the clauses
- for their own protection.
- However, there has been, I think, some advance
- made for other people.
- BOB CRYSTAL: Well, unfortunately, there
- is no phrase in the charter which
- prevents the commission from discriminating against anyone
- for sexual orientation.
- The irony is felt, very strongly.
- I'm very proud of the fact that it
- was the gay groups, Gays for Political Action
- and Gay Alliance of the Genesee Valley,
- which proposed and were the instigators
- of such antidiscrimination clauses.
- As I've said before, gay rights is not specifically
- for gay people.
- It's for everyone.
- And, if someone can get away with discriminating
- against gay people, that's one foot in the door.
- And pretty soon you'll find that if one group is indefensible,
- then everyone else becomes indefensible.
- And anyone can discriminate against anyone.
- I'm reminded of the phrase from Catch-22--
- "They're allowed to do anything that we can't prevent them
- from doing."
- BRUCE JEWELL: Do you think sometime
- in the future there's a hope that we will gain some rights?
- BOB CRYSTAL: Well, I don't intend
- to stop instigating and pushing.
- No one's going to discriminate against me, if I
- have anything to say about it.
- BRUCE JEWELL: Thank you very much, Bob.