Video Interview, Dan Meyers, November 1, 2012

  • KEVIN INDOVINO: There's a fine line there.
  • DAN MEYERS: Absolutely.
  • Yes.
  • We're really sort of conservative Midwesterners,
  • but we have a little progressive streak in us.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to say we're a big town that
  • likes a big world fix it.
  • DAN MEYERS: Yeah, yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: We're just a big town that likes advocacy.
  • If you can, pull the back of your jacket down a little bit.
  • DAN MEYERS: OK.
  • A little wrinkle there?
  • Yeah.
  • That better?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yep.
  • DAN MEYERS: That good?
  • Yeah.
  • I'd better sit up, too, because sitting up is always better.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Always better.
  • Whatever you're comfortable with.
  • DAN MEYERS: OK.
  • CREW: We're rolling.
  • DAN MEYERS: You like that?
  • All right then, as long as we're good.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm looking at you.
  • You're looking good.
  • DAN MEYERS: OK.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: First question is
  • correct spelling of your first and last name
  • as how you would want it to appear on the screen.
  • DAN MEYERS: Dan, D-A-N. Meyers, M-E-Y-E-R-S.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So Dan, the first thing I'm going to do
  • is start out just very generally about gay life in the 1970s.
  • What was it like?
  • If I remember from the interview we
  • did it was kind of period where you yourself
  • had just started to come out.
  • Describe for me, what was the gay community
  • like in Rochester?
  • What was it like to be a gay man in Rochester
  • in the late sixties, seventies?
  • DAN MEYERS: As I think about my own journey of coming out,
  • I chose to live in two worlds, and I'm not certain
  • that it was possible to only live in one.
  • CREW: Sorry to interrupt.
  • I'm sorry.
  • (pause in recording)
  • DAN MEYERS: Start over.
  • CREW: (unintelligible).
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So let's take it from that angle.
  • I mean, living as a gay man in the sixties and seventies,
  • you're almost living a double life.
  • DAN MEYERS: As I think about my own evolution and understanding
  • and coming out, I knew that I was gay in college.
  • I didn't understand exactly all the dimensions of that.
  • And I chose to be much more active after college
  • and was able to find places in the community
  • where I could go and be accepted for who I was
  • and meet people and form friendships.
  • And actually, some of my very best friends to this day
  • are the people that I met as we were sort of all young
  • and coming out together.
  • You lived in two worlds, though.
  • You lived in your nine-to-five world.
  • You lived in your neighborhood world or your church
  • or synagogue kind of world or whatever.
  • And you also, then, lived in your gay-friendly world
  • that was mostly evenings and weekends because you had to pay
  • the bills other kind of ways.
  • My guess is I lived in that world longer than I needed to,
  • but there wasn't a pressure to do it any other way.
  • And when it became obvious that it didn't matter
  • or it was more important to be who I was as opposed
  • to quasi something or other, that, too,
  • happened as naturally as my evolution
  • from thinking I was gay to doing something about it
  • and beginning to live as I was gay.
  • The seventies in Rochester were a gay man's sort of paradise,
  • I think.
  • Was it easy and happy?
  • Not every minute.
  • But was it full of adventure?
  • Yeah, it was full of a lot of adventure.
  • And there was an energy by being something other.
  • And if I had to say sort of what I think might be missing today
  • for young gay, lesbian, transgendered, questioning,
  • ambivalent, bi folks and so on, I'd
  • have to say that we've lost a little bit of that specialty
  • feeling.
  • And the reward for that is there is general acceptance
  • and there is access to everything.
  • The loss of that is a very special sense
  • of community and bonding.
  • So while I certainly don't think anybody should go back and live
  • under a cloud, I think there ought
  • to be ways that we try to build in that sort
  • of special identity and connection
  • that there was in those days.
  • Way too much of it was in the bars.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
  • That's what I was going to lead to.
  • DAN MEYERS: Way too much of it was in the bars,
  • so way too much of it was about substance.
  • And way too much of it was about too much.
  • And I think things are much better today
  • and much more evolved in that understanding.
  • On the other hand, I don't know how much of that
  • was going to happen with sort of hormonal twenty-year-olds
  • and how much of that was happening
  • because we were hormonal twenty-year-olds who
  • happened to be gay.
  • But there was almost no other place
  • that you could be gay than a bar.
  • So the bars became the clubhouse.
  • The bar's social events became sort of our social events.
  • The bar's celebratory events became our celebratory events.
  • And you followed the progression of bars
  • as sort of a movable feast because, if one
  • ran into trouble or one was closed or whatever,
  • somebody else opened and you just kept moving along.
  • And you didn't really need to read
  • about it in the Empty Closet.
  • You heard about it, and it was all word of mouth.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to talk a little bit about alternatives
  • to bars in those early days.
  • What were the alternatives?
  • Were there alternatives?
  • DAN MEYERS: Well, there were college and university centers.
  • And for at least a time anyway, I
  • was young enough to be able to still socialize
  • with college folks and so on and not be unwelcomed or whatever.
  • So I think those were helpful.
  • Certainly, the beginnings of the Gay Alliance
  • were a place where folks could go for more serious,
  • but there wasn't really any health-related service.
  • So you sort of had to navigate that on your own.
  • On the other hand, the worst thing that could happen
  • was venereal disease.
  • And as traumatic as anyone's first episode with that
  • would be, it wasn't life threatening,
  • and there were things that could be done.
  • So that's, I think, when GRID and AIDS started
  • a decade later.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Let's not move to that point yet.
  • DAN MEYERS: Alright.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I just want to make sure we
  • covered all the bases here.
  • In the 1970s, there's the whole let
  • it be movement and free love, and all of that stuff.
  • But yet, you talk to any gay man or woman that
  • was out socially in that time period,
  • there were still challenges.
  • There was risks going to a gay bar.
  • There was a risk that a coworker might find out
  • or your employer might find out.
  • Can you talk to me a little about some of the fears
  • and some of the challenges that you were still
  • faced with even though you were in this decade of free love?
  • DAN MEYERS: You certainly didn't want to be out at work
  • unless you worked in a very unusual and supportive
  • environment.
  • You didn't want to necessarily be
  • out to people you grew up with.
  • For me, I didn't want to be out to my family
  • for many, many years.
  • So you didn't want to run into neighbors
  • or the kids of friends of your family or whatever.
  • Even though, in hindsight, I'm thinking,
  • so what was that all about?
  • If they're at a gay bar, aren't they
  • already part of this secret and so on?
  • But you were guarded, and you were maybe even
  • a little paranoid.
  • And at varying times, you were more.
  • And at varying times, so were the people
  • you were running into.
  • And so there was this almost chemical imbalance
  • of not knowing whether you were on an equal footing
  • with somebody or not because you didn't know whether they were
  • going to turn later that night or the next time
  • you ran into them.
  • And how open you could be was always a matter of negotiation.
  • So was it delicate?
  • Yeah, it was delicate.
  • Did you have to be smart about navigating that?
  • Yes.
  • On the other hand, compared to the life I grew up with,
  • the lid was off.
  • I mean, there were just some pretty remarkable things
  • that I just had never even thought might be possible.
  • What I haven't probably conveyed very well
  • is it was a damn lot of fun.
  • I mean, there was a lot of stuff going on.
  • I hope that young people today have
  • a whole lot of stuff going on and it's a lot of fun for them.
  • I hope it's smarter and safer than maybe our behavior was
  • because we didn't know any better.
  • But I hope there's still that same good energy.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Can you just briefly
  • maybe talk to me about some of the places that you've
  • socialized in, some of the bars that you went into?
  • What were they like?
  • What was it like walking into these places?
  • Describe for me the environment and what they looked like.
  • DAN MEYERS: So Jim's was the very first bar
  • that I walked into.
  • And I think I drove around three or four different nights.
  • I think I even parked by Washington Square.
  • And I couldn't get out of the car.
  • And I don't exactly remember how I got out of the car the night
  • I did, but there was a wonderful big bookstore
  • right next door that was sort of the best
  • bookstore in Rochester.
  • And I think I just stayed till closing and went next door
  • and thought that that might be comfortable.
  • Jim's had an energy about it.
  • Around the corner and down a dark alley was Dick's.
  • That had an acceptance to it, but not an energy.
  • It was almost the generation before's kind
  • of expression of a bar.
  • And there was an understanding of what
  • the code was if police were thought to be around
  • and what happened.
  • And Martha would give the word, and everybody
  • would start talking about the football game
  • instead of whatever it is they were talking about.
  • Jim's moved several times.
  • The crowd moved with him until he wound up
  • on what's now Liberty Pole Way, and that
  • moved the center of gay life over into that direction.
  • It was probably eight, nine years later
  • that Friar's opened.
  • And Friar's was a very different experience.
  • Friar's really was the clubhouse.
  • It was Cheers for gay men mostly,
  • and mostly young gay men.
  • And while there was a little tiny dance area,
  • it was really about this great big bar
  • area and the conversation and the being
  • with your friends and meeting new people
  • and a good energy, a really good energy.
  • And you didn't feel like you had to slink in the side door
  • at Friar's.
  • I think some of that was just the social evolution
  • and awareness and probably my own age and the age
  • of the people that were going.
  • But I think some of it was the energy and the environment that
  • sort of made this nice.
  • It was a really nice place.
  • I have many friends who say they'd love to have it
  • back again because they'd still be going out.
  • They don't go out anymore.
  • I think about how good this would
  • be for younger, professional folks
  • to have that kind of spot.
  • They've found that in other places, I suspect.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: What are your thoughts in regards to the fact
  • that most gay men's coming out experiences started at a bar?
  • What were the bars offering other than just a place
  • to go get a drink?
  • DAN MEYERS: It was home.
  • It was a place you could be yourself.
  • It's a place where it didn't matter who you were
  • or what you did or whatever.
  • You could be that sort of essence of yourself
  • that was a gay man or a gay woman.
  • And there was almost nowhere else you could do that,
  • except maybe in the shower.
  • I mean, it was that sort of intimate.
  • It was safe, and it was fun.
  • It wasn't like going to church.
  • It was just a place you could let your hair down.
  • And it was the only social expression.
  • So how lucky are we today to have so many other expressions
  • to create that opportunity.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, then we got into the eighties.
  • Things changed a bit with the social scene
  • and the onset of AIDS.
  • Talk to me about first time--
  • not only the first time that you heard about AIDS,
  • but really the first time that you realized that Rochester was
  • going to be impacted by this.
  • DAN MEYERS: I had colleagues through my work who were very
  • active socially in New York.
  • And as good as Rochester was, the New York City gay scene
  • was sort of remarkable.
  • And I remember visiting them in the early eighties,
  • and there was this sort of quiet talk at dinner about friends
  • going to this or that hospital and having this pneumonia-like
  • set of symptoms and not coming out--
  • and people dying in days, weeks.
  • And I remember on a subsequent visit somebody saying GRID,
  • the Gay-Related Immune Disease.
  • And I thought, well, thank god I live in Rochester.
  • This is clearly something that happens in New York.
  • That probably was a matter of months
  • before you started quietly hearing that somebody was sick
  • and they didn't know exactly what it was and they weren't
  • getting better.
  • And it pretty clearly sort of just
  • rolled over us that something was different,
  • something had changed.
  • And I don't think any of that thought process prepared us
  • for the just avalanche of sickness and loss and death
  • and just the rawness of this.
  • As exciting as those early days were, this was so devastating.
  • And we were still young.
  • These were young, beautiful people
  • that were just being torn down in the absolute--
  • I mean, they weren't even in their prime.
  • They were just getting started.
  • They were just blooming.
  • And there was so much talent that was just being lost.
  • It was heartbreaking.
  • And you didn't know whether you were next.
  • And it happened randomly, and it happened like that
  • with no pattern.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Rochester's response to it, I think,
  • in some ways is unique.
  • I mean, we could have easily put the blinders on and said,
  • oh, this isn't a Rochester problem.
  • But we, particularly the gay community,
  • didn't let that happen.
  • AIDS almost, kind of in a way forced gay men and women out
  • of the closet.
  • DAN MEYERS: Yeah, it did.
  • It absolutely did.
  • And, you know, the women led the way.
  • I often say that I think women are better people than men
  • just sort of generally.
  • We certainly give women all of the big responsibility
  • in our social structure.
  • But I mean, Jackie Nudd and the people that
  • put AIDS Rochester together were watching the same thing
  • and seeing the same thing and said, dammit,
  • somebody's got to do something about it.
  • And thank god, you know?
  • Now, the boys came along.
  • But it took one of the girls to get it going.
  • And while I think there's always been a good relationship
  • between the gay men and lesbian women in Rochester.
  • AIDS sort of pulled that tighter.
  • And then, Bill Valenti identified
  • that there were things that could be done
  • and that there could be a clinic in the infectious disease
  • area at Strong.
  • And so you didn't have to think about flying
  • to New York or a major city to find out
  • about what was going on.
  • You could at least get to talk to somebody here and get
  • some care.
  • And even though many people had to seek
  • that treatment with a veil over them, that was very powerful.
  • And it was really that that led a group of us
  • to say there's treatment available here.
  • We need to raise some money to make that more available
  • and to try to advance that.
  • And it was that simple an understanding and awareness
  • that led to helping people with AIDS.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So let's pick it up there.
  • DAN MEYERS: All right.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Talk to me about the beginnings of HPA
  • and the core mission behind it because it
  • was a little different than what AIDS Rochester was doing.
  • DAN MEYERS: Yeah, it was.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Tell me what the clinic was doing.
  • DAN MEYERS: Yeah.
  • It was clearly the idea that we needed
  • the outreach and the sort of social service and the advocacy
  • piece.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Set it up for me.
  • DAN MEYERS: OK.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: A couple of us came up
  • with an idea for helping people with AIDS.
  • DAN MEYERS: So Bill Valenti, Jerry Algozer, and I
  • sat in a booth having breakfast.
  • And Bill said, "You know, we really
  • need some money for the clinic at Strong."
  • And Jerry and I said, "So why are you talking to us?"
  • And said, "Well, I thought maybe you
  • could help figure out something that we could do."
  • And there had been small fundraisers for AIDS Rochester.
  • There was a need for that kind of support
  • for the advocacy and the outreach effort
  • and the social service beginnings of a response there.
  • There certainly needed to be some more attention paid
  • to the clinic, and that needed to expand and so on.
  • And those were happening.
  • What wasn't happening was a mechanism
  • to sort of mobilize community support.
  • And so Helping People with AIDS--
  • and we probably took two or three meetings
  • to come up with that name.
  • And in the end, it was let's just
  • call it what it is, Helping People with AIDS.
  • And it was nothing more than we couldn't stand by and not
  • do something to help.
  • And I think it was that simple.
  • So we called a group of friends.
  • Some of those friends called some more friends.
  • There were probably ten or twelve of us
  • who sat around a table every Monday
  • or Tuesday night for several weeks
  • as we were trying to think what we could do.
  • We came up with eight million ideas.
  • We were probably a little attention deficit disorder
  • folks, and we were probably a little bit disorganized
  • in finding our head.
  • But we came up with auctions and raffles and events
  • at bars and cocktail parties and all that sort of thing.
  • After we did a couple of these and realized
  • how much time it took and how much energy it took
  • and how little results there were, we said,
  • "You know, we've got to come up with something bigger,
  • and it's got to be something that's a big enough wrapper
  • to get a lot of these ideas working together to really do
  • something sort of more significant than raising
  • five hundred or one thousand dollars at a time."
  • So that's where Dining for Dollars came from.
  • There was a ridiculous TV show called Dialing for Dollars
  • that had a very long life on daytime television
  • with Ann Keefe.
  • She was terrific, but it was a really simple kind of premise.
  • And I think it was Ron Andres who said, "You know,
  • we ought to call it Dining for Dollars."
  • And he went on to design the logo.
  • And then, everybody just fell in step
  • as to who was going to do what piece of it.
  • So we decide to have a party.
  • What else would we do?
  • And we decided that we weren't going
  • to spend any money, which was a big step in our evolution.
  • Because, you know, one of the things that fundraising support
  • organizations quite often do is get
  • sort of all caught up in the razzmatazz of the event,
  • and the only way to make an event bigger usually
  • in your thinking is to spend more money.
  • And of course, the more money you
  • spend, the less money you raise.
  • And so we started off being really,
  • pretty conservative folks saying we
  • weren't going to spend a penny that we didn't have to spend.
  • We set the goal of not spending any money to raise this.
  • So how do you save on food costs?
  • You ask people to host dinners and let
  • them take the cost of the food.
  • So that's what we did, and that was really the premise that
  • Dining for Dollars.
  • I don't know whether--
  • I think the Community Foundation had done their evenings out
  • at home, and so we might have piggybacked on that idea.
  • But it was all going on at about the same time.
  • And then, we thought about having a big party afterwards,
  • and that party needed to have dessert and drinks
  • and entertainment and dancing.
  • And we knew how to do that, and we
  • had people that were good at all of those sorts of things.
  • And so we begged, borrowed, and stealed desserts
  • from all the best bakeries, many of whom
  • were either run or staffed by our friends.
  • Gary Sweet from the Avenue Pub took on the bar.
  • We told them that this was going to be
  • a la-di-da kind of evening and we
  • needed to have after-dinner drinks because people
  • were going to come from these nice dinners
  • that people were hosting.
  • We got a really good DJ, and Jerry Algozer
  • put the best entertainment package together.
  • He was running the downstairs cabaret.
  • Nunsense had not premiered yet, and so
  • didn't the good sister appear on the stage in a promo
  • for Nunsense and didn't the house just fall apart
  • with laughter.
  • And all the good drag queens came
  • to do their very best work.
  • And we didn't know how many people might show up.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: More than you expected?
  • I would--
  • DAN MEYERS: Way too many people showed up.
  • I mean, the room was like this.
  • It was just-- and the poor bartenders and bar I mean
  • got just hammered because people weren't
  • coming for a little after-dinner cordial.
  • They were coming to have a really good time because they
  • didn't know where they were going
  • and they didn't know who else was going to be there.
  • And it was like, oh my goodness, isn't this sort of wonderful?
  • And memory clouds things, but I think
  • we wanted to raise ten thousand dollars.
  • And I seem to remember that we raised closer to twenty.
  • And we had to knock it out of the park,
  • successful event on our hands.
  • And it just kept getting better.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So I want to kind of get in your head
  • at that moment with that first Dining for Dollars event
  • at Village Gate.
  • And you stand back and see these throngs of people.
  • What were you thinking at the time?
  • And when did it click with you, OK, we've got something here?
  • DAN MEYERS: I think it was, you know how parties sort of start,
  • and the beginning of a party is sort of that Neverland of is
  • this going to work, are people really going to show
  • or whatever?
  • And of course, gay folks aren't going to arrive early.
  • I mean, this is going to be backloaded and late.
  • And so it was especially slow, especially because we didn't
  • go to dinner because we were the committee
  • and we were all working.
  • So it seemed like this baby was just never going to get born.
  • And then, the parade started through the door.
  • And I don't think it was more than forty-five minutes
  • into it that we were all looking at each other saying,
  • this is really, really good.
  • And then, I think several of us started fussing about some
  • of the arrangements that we hadn't prepared for.
  • So they weren't going to be just sort of perfect.
  • And after a short time, it dawned on us
  • that it didn't matter.
  • People were having such a good time that it was just fine.
  • Let it go, and have a grand time with it.
  • Neil Paracella took this warehouse kind of room
  • and made it into a supper club.
  • There was more black plastic than probably any fire marshal
  • would allow because he had to cover the walls with something
  • to mask the cinder block.
  • I mean, it was an awful spot in Village Gate.
  • And honest to god, with that and some uplighting
  • and a focus on the stage and a black-and-white tile floor
  • that we put down to be the dance floor,
  • the place looked terrific.
  • But that's the magic of, you know.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: What does it say about Rochester in general
  • that you can get a community energized
  • like that for something like AIDS, which at this point
  • it was obvious how tragic was going to be, or was.
  • Not every community responded to it like Rochester did.
  • DAN MEYERS: And not as soon either.
  • I mean, we responded like the big cities.
  • And while the impact was extraordinary for us,
  • it wasn't like it was in the big cities
  • and the metropolitan areas.
  • This worked because it was a network of friends.
  • And not everybody knew everybody,
  • but everybody knew somebody.
  • And that's what sort of created that natural kind of network.
  • So I think that's how this community works.
  • The gay community reflects how the greater community works.
  • We're small enough that you really do connect
  • and you really do know people.
  • And if there is something worthy and something
  • that needs support, you can mobilize folks.
  • And the first year, it was clearly
  • the gay men and some good women who made this all happen.
  • There were a few community friends, but not many.
  • By the next year, there were a lot more community friends
  • because people were concerned about what AIDS was doing.
  • And by the third or fourth year, this was a community-wide party
  • that people couldn't wait to get to because they knew
  • the gay community was going to throw a good party
  • and this wasn't going to be another sort
  • of fuddy duddy gala.
  • And we delivered and had a great run, just a great run.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So then, talk to me about how the funds
  • you raised doing these events, how did those funds
  • help this community?
  • What were kind of some of the programs that were
  • being supported by those funds?
  • DAN MEYERS: Well, the first couple of years, everything
  • went to the AIDS clinic at Strong.
  • It was the major health care provider,
  • and we felt that's what this needed to be.
  • When the clinic was formed, the event went to the clinic.
  • And sometime around there, we also gave some money
  • to AIDS Rochester.
  • And then, there became some more events,
  • and there was another fundraising organization.
  • And things became a little bit more dispersed and diverse,
  • and then things came back together again,
  • as you would sort of expect.
  • So the clinic at Strong, the AIDS Community Clinic,
  • got established.
  • AIDS Rochester grew.
  • And there were, on occasion, grants
  • to other organizations for outreach or special initiatives
  • or whatever.
  • The Quilt came a couple of times during that time.
  • The AIDS Show came to Rochester, And there
  • was great corporate support for that.
  • This little town performed, and performed in a way
  • that was remarkably admirable.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So let me throw some names out at you.
  • DAN MEYERS: OK.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Just some of the people
  • that you had to work with.
  • These names come up with everyone that I interview.
  • Obviously, the first person that comes up
  • whenever you talk about HPA and AIDS
  • awareness, and that is Tony Green.
  • Talk to me about Tony.
  • DAN MEYERS: You know, he was the town crier.
  • He was the court jester.
  • He presided over the bar at Friar's in a way
  • that sort of made it clear to you that you were either
  • in the right place or that you needed
  • to get your act together and come
  • in the door a different way so that you could be your best
  • self.
  • He treated everyone with a remarkable openness
  • and acceptance, and people returned that to him.
  • And he was a real good confidant.
  • He was a real good judge of character.
  • He was a real good connector.
  • He was probably a confessor for an awful lot of people.
  • And all of that, some of it pretty serious stuff,
  • done with great humor.
  • You couldn't take yourself too seriously
  • around Tony Green for more than a second.
  • And he wasn't afraid to use that connectivity
  • that he had to mobilize folks and to make something work.
  • So when he got behind something, hundreds of people
  • just followed right along.
  • So in lots of ways, he was the Pied Piper
  • for the growing success of the AIDS-related events.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: John Washburn comes up often.
  • And if I remember right, you were actually
  • good friends with him?
  • DAN MEYERS: Very.
  • One of my dearest friends in the whole world.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Tell me about John a little bit
  • because John being a public figure basically
  • took a great risk coming out with his HIV status.
  • DAN MEYERS: John Washburn came to this town in the early 1980s
  • to be superintendent of the Brighton schools.
  • Brighton has always been a leader in education,
  • and the new superintendent bore watching
  • is what the word on the street was
  • because this was a smart guy who was going to change things.
  • And you watch him and watch Brighton.
  • There was an underground report that
  • said the new superintendent might be gay,
  • and so the word was out in the gay community.
  • This man bore watching as well.
  • John and I served on the Arts Council board together
  • and I think sort of looked at each other a little bit
  • out of the side of our eyes.
  • And didn't take us too long to meet at one of the bars.
  • And with John, it was sort of electric.
  • He had a terrific, terrific mind.
  • He had a terrific sense of joy in life and wanting to have fun
  • and wanting everyone else to have fun.
  • And when he was out, he was fully out.
  • But when the darkness disappeared,
  • he went back to being the superintendent.
  • And even though he wore cowboy boots,
  • he didn't really ever drop a hairpin, as he would say,
  • in that circumstance.
  • He was one of the folks that helped start HPA.
  • He was one of the folks to really start
  • mobilizing the community.
  • I don't know exactly when he knew that he was sick,
  • but I suspect he suspected sooner
  • than he let on to any of us.
  • I remember when he first got sick and had
  • to be hospitalized, and he almost died.
  • It brought it all home for me in a way that it just hadn't been.
  • He was also one of those people who
  • understood that he had to take control of his illness
  • and he had to manage it even though he
  • relied on some very good doctors,
  • and he had fabulous doctors.
  • And in that way, I think he helped an awful lot of people
  • understand what you have to do to be as well as you can be.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Hold that thought.
  • (unintelligible) Unfortunately, there's nothing
  • we can do about it except (unintelligible).
  • DAN MEYERS: Sorry.
  • This has got to be a long day for you
  • listening to all these stories.
  • CREW: (unintelligible).
  • DAN MEYERS: Yeah?
  • CREW: It's fascinating.
  • It's a history that not many gays have actually heard.
  • DAN MEYERS: Yeah, exactly.
  • Yeah.
  • CREW: (unintelligible).
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: (unintelligible).
  • We'll give it a second there.
  • (pause) (unintelligible).
  • CREW: Obviously, a math class.
  • (pause in recording)
  • DAN MEYERS: Are we?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
  • We're rolling?
  • CREW: Yeah, we're rolling.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Let's pick it up with John.
  • We picked it up somewhere around he was out at night,
  • but when the sun came up--
  • DAN MEYERS: Yep.
  • So as the episodes with his illness
  • became more frequent and affected more of his life,
  • he had to make a decision about whether he
  • was going to continue to function as the school
  • superintendent or not.
  • He had a very powerful experience
  • of talking to the school superintendents
  • group about AIDS.
  • And it made it clear to him that he could give up
  • one platform, if you will, and that there
  • would be other ways in which he could
  • work with society for its good.
  • And so he evolved this presence that he took around the country
  • to educational forums to be sort of the first person to speak
  • out about what AIDS is.
  • And with his Harvard PhD, with his school superintendents,
  • with his national consulting role in education,
  • he had access to platforms that most people just didn't.
  • And he was a respected peer.
  • And he couldn't have been a better spokesperson
  • for putting a face on this disease
  • that everybody wanted to pretend was something else
  • and there was a demon somewhere.
  • And it was really hard to demonize this man.
  • So I don't think it ever occurred to him that that's
  • where he was going to maybe make his greatest contribution,
  • but it's really clear that he put a face on AIDS in Rochester
  • that people couldn't ignore.
  • And he put a face on AIDS in the national educational forum
  • that people had to pay attention to.
  • I went with him to speak to the National School Boards
  • meeting in New Orleans.
  • He was pretty sick.
  • This was probably a year and a half or two years
  • before he died.
  • And he had a terrible episode of a fever while we were there.
  • And it was really not clear whether he
  • was going to be able to make it onto the stage or not.
  • And Bill Valenti worked some magic.
  • And this was an auditorium of eight to ten thousand people.
  • And he started telling his story.
  • And I don't think there was a sentence of more than five
  • words, and I don't think there were any words bigger than two
  • syllables even though this man had a fabulous vocabulary.
  • It was a human story.
  • And he was crying, and so was everyone else in that room.
  • And the applause was thunderous.
  • That applause alone probably added months or years
  • to his life.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I had a question,
  • and it's just kind of flew right out of my head.
  • I remember.
  • So he came forward with his HIV status, his illness.
  • And he didn't retreat.
  • He just got up in the forefront.
  • Rochester's reaction to it--
  • and I'm trying to just recall from my own memory of what
  • I read in the newspapers at the time--
  • it was kind of two-fold.
  • There were some pretty strong criticism of him.
  • It was the Brighton school superintendent, scandal.
  • DAN MEYERS: And it was front page Sunday paper.
  • I mean, you couldn't hide from this.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: But on the flip side,
  • the community eventually embraced him, I think.
  • Talk to me a little about it.
  • Talk to me about the two sides of the reaction
  • that Rochester had to his situation
  • and how he brought it to the forefront.
  • DAN MEYERS: Well, it's a whole lot easier
  • if something bad can be other and it
  • can be about someone else.
  • And it's even better if you can blame somebody for it.
  • And there was a whole lot of that side of the column going
  • on with AIDS.
  • And so initial reaction from some people
  • was trying to get that over into them,
  • and they did this and this is, and so on.
  • And yet, you couldn't stay over in that column very easily.
  • You had to begin to see that this
  • is about disease and illness, and disease and illnesses--
  • are there some contributing factors?
  • Yeah, there are.
  • But the fact of the matter is this is a virus,
  • and it's going to do--
  • and you know what?
  • It's not safe for anybody I mean,
  • this can happen to anybody, and this can happen
  • in lots of different ways.
  • And this isn't them.
  • It's us.
  • And I think there was a lot of work building up to it,
  • but John Washburn was the crossover
  • that this became us instead of them.
  • And it was a remarkable gift to the gay community in Rochester
  • and to the community of Rochester
  • that AIDS found a place at the crossroads.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Again, we can't speak to him, obviously,
  • but can you share any of those early conversations
  • with regards to this journey that he was going to be
  • embarking on and becoming--
  • I hate to say this, but becoming a poster child for AIDS?
  • You know, some of these concerns initially?
  • I can't imagine that he didn't go into this without some fears
  • and some apprehension.
  • DAN MEYERS: He was scared to death of it.
  • But this was a very smart man who
  • put his plan together well in advance
  • of the implementation of it.
  • And so he needed to line up his family.
  • He needed to line up his friends.
  • He needed to line up the school board.
  • He needed to line up his staff.
  • And this is somebody that worked through every one of those
  • in a very clear-headed, proactive, and advanced kind
  • of foresight way.
  • His thought process had so much integrity that, by the time
  • it happened, he was way far ahead
  • of where everybody else was because we were
  • all just catching up to him.
  • But I remember saying to him, "You
  • know, you've got to think about your own health in this
  • if you're going to use all of this energy to do this."
  • And he said, "I can take care of that."
  • And he said, "And besides, I don't know
  • how much time I've got anyway.
  • I've got to get this done."
  • And he was taking care of himself.
  • I mean, he not only arranged for an orderly transition
  • in the Brighton schools, but he sold everything here
  • and he moved to Santa Fe because that's
  • where he wanted to be eventually in his life,
  • and he decided he better go now.
  • And so he had a terrific year in Santa Fe living the life
  • that he had always wanted to do.
  • He happened to be forty-nine and fifty instead of sixty-five,
  • but he made that happen as well.
  • So not only did he share the pain and the understanding
  • and the education of this.
  • He shared the good life of this and said, "Look folks,
  • it's not over.
  • I'm going to get on with my life."
  • And that's pretty powerful.
  • And that's my friend that taught me that.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: You know, we're thirty-plus years
  • since AIDS appeared.
  • Late eighties into the nineties, we had pretty strong troops
  • gathered here in Rochester, confronting this, educating
  • people, increasing awareness, taking care of people.
  • Not so much today.
  • I mean, we still have organizations.
  • We still have care facilities.
  • It's a different beast today than it was twenty,
  • thirty years ago.
  • But when you look back at what you
  • were doing at the height of this and what
  • we're faced with now, what are your thoughts about what
  • our greatest challenges are right now, particularly
  • with AIDS and still keeping people safe?
  • DAN MEYERS: I remember Bill Valenti talking to a group
  • saying that AIDS could become a chronic illness that people
  • would manage through an extended period of life.
  • And as awful as that might have sounded
  • as sort of a sentence for people,
  • I remember feeling such hope that this
  • wasn't going to end up with these awful final days
  • and these funerals one after another.
  • I mean, funerals, there was a time
  • in the eighties, early nineties when funerals
  • were our major social events.
  • And there were just way, way, way too many.
  • So the idea that this could be managed
  • and that, even though this probably
  • wasn't going to be easy or pretty,
  • that folks could survive was just remarkably hopeful.
  • And those first drugs were just awful things.
  • They did terrible things to people.
  • Now, it's not easy, but it's manageable,
  • and people are living a full and long life.
  • So we're at a much different time,
  • and AIDS has got to find its place against the other kind
  • of chronic conditions and illnesses and challenges
  • that people have.
  • And it's hard to get air time for that.
  • And then, it's hard to galvanize a new generation-- or two
  • really now-- of gay men and women and bi and transgendered.
  • So thank god we don't need the same mobilization.
  • On the other hand, we best not forget
  • because this isn't going away, and this is now
  • everybody's problem.
  • And we've got to make sure that young people today,
  • there is no reason for them to have to deal with HIV.
  • We know enough to prevent most of it.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: As history reflects back on your life,
  • what are you most proud of?
  • What do you want history to say about Dan Meyers
  • and what he contributed to the Rochester community?
  • DAN MEYERS: Rochester is an amazing little microcosm.
  • This community has always taken very good care of its own.
  • And it has always had a little bit
  • of a brighter eye for where progress might
  • lie than other communities.
  • And we've always figured out our own homemade way of doing it.
  • So I think other communities get more credit,
  • beat a bigger drum about their kind of things.
  • I don't think we care so much about that as long as folks
  • are getting taken care of.
  • So for me, my work at HPA, my work for Al Sigl,
  • my work for other community causes
  • that I care about has been nothing more than my adding
  • my thread to that fabric in Rochester in hope
  • that it makes it a little bit stronger
  • and makes life better for a few more people.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I think we're going to go with that.
  • DAN MEYERS: Is that good?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
  • Definitely.
  • DAN MEYERS: Alright.
  • You're sure you don't want anything done over
  • that you didn't like?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Nope.
  • DAN MEYERS: You're alright?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I think we're done.