Video Interview, Gary Sweet, November 1, 2012

GARY SWEET: It's going to be read I mean it's not--

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, yeah it just--

GARY SWEET: It's not unfixable.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

It's not a lot.

Just keep in mind that the audience

is going to hear a little sound bite from you

but you need to make sure they understand

what you're talking about.

GARY SWEET: Right.

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.

First question is the easiest one.

I need the correct spelling of your first and last name

and how you want it to actually appear on screen.

GARY SWEET: Gary.

G-A-R-Y. S-W-E-E-T.

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.

And Gary, the first thing I want to talk about

is the early days here in Rochester,

what the gay scene was like in the sixties and seventies.

What was it like for the life of a gay man here in Rochester?

GARY SWEET: In my recollection.

The beginning would be in 1965 when I first started coming out

as a gay man in Rochester.

When I got out of the service, I started

going to the first gay bar which was Dick's 43 on Stone Street.

And Martha Gruttadauria was the owner of that

and she protected the gay community the best

that she knew how.

We were allowed in there, you were not

allowed to dance unless she gave you an OK to dance.

The cops, the police officers, were not as friendly

as they are today.

They were anti-gay, I'd have to say, back then.

They did not like to see two men together.

Drag Queens were a no-no.

There weren't any drag bars per se,

until close to 1970 when the Blue Chip opened up

and then the female impersonators

had to wear one piece of men's clothing.

And they were frequently raided by the officers.

And Martha had a son-in-law who was a detective

and he was our best friend.

And he would call her and tell her

whether the police were going to arrive.

She would blow a whistle and we'd

have to stop dancing and sit down.

And it was scary back then.

Most of the activity was in the parks

and cruising on the streets because there

was no safe place for us to go except for Dick's 43.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Let me pull you back a little bit.

Talk to me a little bit about what it was like walking

into Dick's.

You know, was there apprehension there?

Were you afraid that somebody might see you walking

into Dick's?

What was the environment like when you got into Dick's?

GARY SWEET: The first time that I

went into a gay bar, which was Dick's 43,

I had been driving around quite a while--

I was new to the scene--

until somebody came out and said, "Hey you

going to drive around or are you going to come in?"

And it scared me going in there.

Not knowing what I was going to find, who I was going to find,

and how I was going to be treated when I walked in there.

And there were a couple of times when people came in

that I knew that were not gay and I

would hide in the men's room or in the ladies room.

And my friends would let me know when they were gone.

It was totally closeted back then.

There was no well, maybe I can come out or I can't.

It was totally closeted in there and you

would stare at people walking through the door.

Is he here to harass us or is he gay?

And everybody was scrutinized walking through the door.

Once you were inside and you became known inside you

were a family, you were protected,

you were treated well.

But the first time you walked into a gay bar

you had to really, really want to be in there because you were

scrutinized and you were watched to make sure

that you belonged in there and not somewhere else.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Brings up an interesting question

is, in that day how was a place like Dick's even

allowed to exist?

GARY SWEET: Dick's 43 was the gay bar in that era

basically because Martha Gruttadauria had the gumption

to realize that there was a need for a place for gay men to go.

Not women, women were not allowed in there.

And the gay men were her sons.

She had a need for wanting people around her

and she enjoyed it.

And also, because she had a detective son-in-law

which really helped her establish a gay bar.

Those that tried to open up--

there were a few, I really can't remember the names of them

that tried to open up--

and she didn't allow them to be around.

I mean, she had the market on the gay bar.

I mentioned the Blue Chip.

They did try drag shows there.

It was not a gay bar, only on weekends and at nighttime.

During the day it was a local bar

and the owners wanted to get their foot into the market.

And one of the drag queens, Jackie was her name,

got some other people together, decided to put on a show.

And once Martha Gruttadauria got wind of it

the place was raided.

And the drag queens were hauled off to jail,

we were thrown out.

The gay men were not arrested.

The drag queens were all arrested.

And it was scary but we laughed and we enjoyed it.

We went back for more.

I mean, this is, you know--

We defied them to stop us or they defied them to stop them.

The drag queens were feisty back then.

They really were.

And as long as they had one piece of men's clothing

on they were not thrown in to the general public,

they were kept separate.

But it was mostly the female impersonators

or the drag queens that were scrutinized back then.

And the gay men stuck together.

And we knew where we were allowed

and where we weren't allowed.

And we didn't venture where we weren't allowed.

And when the females started coming out

to their bars, which would be the 212 and the Riverview,

the men were not allowed in.

So back then it was definitely a split.

You were either a lesbian or a gay woman or a gay guy

and we did not mix well.

We were not allowed in the women's bar

unless we were escorted by a woman.

Otherwise, you didn't go in there.

The lesbians, or female gays, back then was one gender.

They were all butch.

There was no fem lesbian and butch lesbian.

They were all butch.

They were defying society.

Saying, you know, this is what we're going to be.

Today it's so much better than it was back then.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to follow up with that.

I want to know when did you get a sense of gay men and lesbians

coming together and why?

GARY SWEET: Gay men and gay women

didn't start to gel together or socialize together

until probably after the AIDS epidemic came into play.

That I think everybody realized at that point

that we were all in this together.

It was definitely a gay man's disease

but the lesbian community decided that we're all gay too.

And they started venturing into the men's bars

and then the men were allowed into the women's bars.

And it started to come together as a family,

instead of gay men and gay women.

And I think the AIDS epidemic is when it started.

When I started seeing lesbians coming into the Avenue Pub.

And Rosie's opened up, which was supposed

to have been a female bar and it was a mixed bar.

And Friar's allowed women in there.

It wasn't one special occasion, it just

started to just slowly trangressed

into a gay community and not a separate community.

There wasn't two separate entities.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Just tell me for reference,

where was the Blue Chip?

Do you remember?

GARY SWEET: The Blue Chip was over Glide Street.

Child street, Glide Street in that area.

I can't remember now exactly on Glide Street or Child Street.

It was Child, the name, or Glide Street.

It was in that area over there.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to talk about the drag

queens just a little but more.

Back then were they known as drag queens

or were they known more as female impersonators?

GARY SWEET: The Blue Chip--

when the female impersonators first came out to the Blue Chip

they were drag queens.

The term female impersonator didn't, I think, come into play

until later on when they started doing more big production

numbers and impersonating a star.

I think that's where the female impersonator first came out.

Because back on the drag queens would

take on the persona of Liza Minnelli or Judy Garland.

And they were known by that name.

I mean, if they were doing Liza Minnelli they were known

as Liza, not by their male.

Or they were known as Judy Garland,

they were known as Judy or Shirley Bassey.

This is what they were known as, the female impersonator.

Before that, when I first started going out,

was drag queens and that's what they were, drag queens.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Again, jumping back a little bit here.

You skipped over (unintelligible).

When you were here in Rochester--

do you remember hearing about the Stonewall when it happened

in New York?

Do you remember what all about what Rochester's reaction to it

was?

GARY SWEET: The big turning of events of Stonewall in New York

City didn't really affect Rochester except for the fact

that we were so proud of what was going on there.

And that people had the gumption to stand up

to the police who really harassed them in New York City.

It brought our community stronger

to realize that if they can do it, why can't we do it?

But I didn't see any actual events

here except for the applause that we gave everybody

in there.

Then San Francisco got into it and it just started escalating.

But as far as Rochester, we were such a conservative city.

Because of the growth of Kodak and Xerox

and Bausch & Lomb that the people here at Rochester

were still afraid to stand up outside or inside

their workplace and acknowledge the fact that they were gay.

So it was still not as closeted but because

of our conservative city it was still closeted.

We all were happy that something was happening, that somebody

was doing something for us.

And that it was going to come back to Rochester eventually

and we were going to feel it.

But it was great to read about and watch and see

that these people had the gumption to stand up.

Because New York City of San Francisco

are so open because of the theatrics

there and San Francisco is the melting pot for gay people

back then.

Fortunately, now we can go anywhere we want to go

and we're welcome anywhere we go and they started that.

But it was a ripple effect for Rochester.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So in time you left Dick's, and you

started your own business with the Avenue Pub.

You took over the Avenue Pub.

Talk to me about those first few days.

And more importantly, I want to kind of get

a feel what was going on inside your head of what

it is you were--

what it is you trying to do?

Not only just in operating a bar.

But what it is you think you were providing

for the gay community?

Talk to me about those early days and the kind

of thinking behind it?

GARY SWEET: In 1975, I was managing bars

for a family in Rochester that owned thirteen bars.

And I was basically I guess you would call a general manager

of seven of them.

And at that time they had the bar that is now the Avenue Pub,

it was called Neil's Cocktail Lounge, that was in trouble

and they wanted somebody to buy it from them

or buy it as their partner.

And they offered this to me.

I was married.

I had small children.

It was a big venture for me to do this.

And I agreed to it and took it over.

As I said, it was Neil's Cocktail Lounge back then

and they got closed down for violations.

I received my liquor license.

I did some remodeling.

Not intended ever to have a gay bar

because of my marital status and my children.

I just wanted to be in the bar business, I enjoyed it.

I had been doing this since I was eighteen.

When I was in the service I was tending bar.

No matter what I did before the Avenue Pub

I always had my hands in the bar business as tending bar

somewhere part-time or whatever.

And word got out that Gary Sweet had

bought a bar and my gay friends heard about it.

And I didn't encourage anything.

It wasn't a sign saying gay bar.

I would never do that, once again,

because of my marital status.

But once they found out about it and I

opened my doors that's all that I seemed to be getting

were the gay people.

My friends coming in to wish me luck.

But Monroe Avenue was not going to have that.

It was unheard of for a gay bar on Monroe Avenue.

Even the other gay bar owners at that time

told me that I would never last because of the area

I was going into.

These were all 8:00 a.m.

bars, fifteen cent drafts.

And when I bought this place it was an Indian biker bar

and they were having nothing of me being inside that place.

They harassed me.

I was sent to the hospital twice where they beat me up.

Came in and blocked the doors, put up their flag,

wouldn't let anybody leave, and said that you

know I had to be out of there.

Luckily, I had a cousin who was on the police force.

And back then, in those times, we had the paddy wagon.

And he was on assignment on the Goodman, Monroe Avenue

and would stop in every single day to make sure I was OK.

And notify these people that if they harmed me one more time

that they were going to be in jail.

My father would come in and sit at the head of the bar

protect me.

I had a bouncer with a German Shepherd that was in there.

It took three years at least before I was established

as a gay bar and left alone.

They would throw open the front door,

throw eggs and rocks in there.

And today the Avenue Pub the front door is for exit only.

Being on the sidewalk, I still have a little fear

of homophobic people walking by and I

don't want my customers hurt.

So the front door is exit only.

And we have our own little side door that we come in.

But from 1975, when I first opened up, to 1977-78

it was scary.

They were not going to allow this.

And then Friar's opened up that Monroe Avenue, Rosie's opened

up on Monroe Avenue, and the gay community was

accepted that Monroe Avenue.

They started leaving us alone knowing that we

weren't going to go away.

So the first couple of years were really scary.

But I had no intention to have a gay bar.

That was not my intention.

My gay friends said I was going to have a gay bar.

They forced it upon me and I'm glad they did.

I've been there thirty-seven years

and I love every minute of it.

KEVIN INDOVINO: At some point you became more than just a bar

for the gay community.

You became actively involved in number of different causes.

Particularly during the AIDS crisis, the gay picnics,

and all that.

Talk to me about the importance for you

being actively supportive of the gay community

other than just serving drinks.

GARY SWEET: After I became established as a gay bar

and was recognized for having a gay bar

I started getting involved in different causes in Rochester.

The organizations would come and ask, "Gary, can we

hold a fundraiser here?"

Or "Will you partake in a fundraiser?"

And no matter what I was asked I never said no.

There was always a need for money to be raised.

And when the AIDS epidemic started there were fundraisers.

There was HPA that was held.

They asked me to partake in that.

And everything was a cause.

And I feel very proud that over the years

I have accumulated thirty-seven awards that they honored me

with for being part of this.

And I feel honored that they asked me to be part of this.

That somebody had to take a stand

and help with these organizations.

Because everything was new to everybody.

There was no precedent for any of this.

When they started the HPA and the Dining

for Dollars and nobody had done this before.

So it was all--

we were all taking the chance and the gay community

sticks together here at Rochester.

Very close knit family.

Everybody helps each other.

If there's a need or a cause we're going to help each other.

And it wasn't just me, the other bars got involved in on it.

But it was a joy, it was a pleasure

to be part of all of that.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So let's pick it up with HPA.

Talk to me about the first time that Dan Meyers came to you

and asked you to help with the first Dining for Dollars event.

GARY SWEET: The biggest event that was held back then was HPA

or what they was known as Dining For Dollars.

And a good friend of mine Dan Meyers,

who was better known as Nana, came to me and with this idea

that they were going to have a fundraiser.

That they were going to have people

hold dinners in their homes and then have dessert and drinks

at a central location where everybody

could come afterwards.

And people having dinners would raise money at their dinners

and everybody join in.

So they selected the place that were they

were going to have it, which was the Village Gate.

Never been done before.

And Dan said, "Would you do the bars for us and set it up?"

And of course it was just an empty room.

So we had a supply bring everything, the bars,

the liquor, the set up, everything.

And he said, "We'll get about fifty to one hundred people,

maybe one hundred and fifty people."

So I said, "OK, that sounds good."

And at the time I had a partner who

was involved in this with me also

and we went and set this whole place up.

Well, lo and behold, within the first hour

and a half there were over three hundred people in there.

The place just filled up.

It was wonderful.

Ran out of stuff.

We were running around trying to get things.

That was the first one and then people

realized that this was going to get bigger.

So Dan and--

OK my mind just went blank.

Excuse me.

The one from Midtown.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Not Jesse?

GARY SWEET: No.

KEVIN INDOVINO: No?

Neil?

GARY SWEET: Neil Parisella.

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.

So take that.

GARY SWEET: After the first one Dan

decided this is going to be a little bigger so we

needed a bigger venue for this.

And there was a wonderful, wonderful window decorator

in charge of Midtown Plaza, Neil Parisella,

who was a good friend of Dan's.

And Dan went to him and they collaborated.

And Neil was able to give us Midtown Plaza.

For viewers who don't remember Midtown Plaza it was huge,

it was gorgeous.

But we couldn't get in there until six o'clock

at night when all the stores were closed.

Well, Neil would turn this place into a wonderland

in decorated it.

And it was the upper balcony of the place and the lower.

And as time grew, we went from one bar being set up,

we had four bars set up.

And it went from three hundred people

to thirteen hundred people.

Rochester came out in full force in support of this epidemic,

this AIDS epidemic.

Thousands of dollars were supposed to have been raised.

Hundreds of thousands of dollars were end up being raised.

When finally the HPA Dining for Dollars started dwindling.

Today they do the restaurant Dining for Dollars type

of thing.

The restaurants that will hold a function and you pick

your restaurant you want to go to and pay

so much money and the money goes towards AIDS.

But back then it was a huge party for the gay community

to get together and raise money for a worthy cause.

But it all started with Dan Meyers and Tony Green.

And from one bar of fifty to one hundred

people it turned into thousands of people at Midtown

and from there it went-- after Neil Parisella passed away, it

went to the convention center.

Which was a little bit too large for us, the venue.

People felt that they were spread out too much.

You didn't have the closeness anymore

that you did in Midtown.

And it just started dwindling after a while.

But the highlight of it was the Midtown.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm going to jump back a little bit.

I'm going to kind of jump all over the place here.

I just realized I forgot one thing.

In regards to the Police harassment

at the gay bars and police harassment--

arresting men in the parks and all that.

At some point Gordon Urlacher came into the picture.

and I just kind of want to get your thoughts

about having a police liaison for the gay community.

And more importantly, what was Gordon Urlacher like?

Why do you think it was such a significant aspect

to have someone like Gordon in that position?

GARY SWEET: The time in Rochester

where men were using in the parks and--

basically, the parks is a pickup place outside of the bars

because there weren't that many bars

and we were still being harassed by the police.

The police start arresting people and the gay community

came together.

And decided that we needed some protection.

And they formed the gay liaison with the police department.

And our first officer that was assigned to us,

who we were able to call if we were being harassed unduly

or if something happened to us, was Gordon Urlacher, a big guy.

Very big guy.

And I think at the beginning he was a little skeptical of what

he was being assigned to do but he turned out

to be our best friend.

Gordon would come into the bars and check on us.

We all had his phone number.

All the owners had Gordon's personal phone number.

We could reach him twenty-four hours a day.

And he would be by our side any time there was any harassment.

He was our liaison between the chief of police, the officers,

and sometimes the courts.

If we needed him to be there he was there.

He was the first one and there were many to come after.

But he sticks out with us more than anything else

because being the first one and also he was the most visible.

I mean, we still have today but because we don't have

the need that we had back then.

Our liaison is there for us if there is a need.

Fortunately we don't have the need.

But back then we kept Gordon jumping a lot.

He was he was a busy man.

But he made his rounds of everyone of the bars

that were around.

And saw to it every weekend he would make an appearance

to help us out.

And at one point we had up to thirteen bars of Rochester.

So he was a busy man and he was a good friend.

He was a very good friend.

KEVIN INDOVINO: And did you really see

that as a kind of turning point in

regards to the relationship of the gay community

and the community at large, particularly law enforcement

community?

GARY SWEET: Gordon Urlacher's presence and support

of the gay community gave him an opportunity

to talk to the other officers that he knew,

and he knew a lot of them, to explain to them that there was

no fear of the gay community.

There's no need to be as crass as you are with them.

And some of them were very crass.

I mean, we were not welcome.

I mean, we were outcasts.

But Gordon opened their eyes to the fact

that these are working men, teachers, some of them

are lawyers, some of them doctors.

There's no need for you to treat them

the way they're being treated.

And the police officers started backing off.

My relationship with the police today and even back

then is wonderful.

They want you to respect them and they'll respect you.

And they want you to feel free to call them,

especially today, if you have a problem they'll

be right there for you.

But Gordon Urlacher is the one that originally made them aware

of the fact that hey, you can't treat these people the way

you're treated them.

I don't like to use the word these people

but back then that's what we were, "these people,"

"those people."

We weren't brothers and sisters.

It was well, look at those people over there.

And he changed a lot of that.

I mean, the police officers now they march in our gay parades.

You know, they're wonderful but for Rochester he

was the turning point for us with the police department.

He even opened the police chief's eyes to us.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Again, I'm jumping around

here a little bit.

I want to get back to the Avenue Pub.

Aside from the, you know, the Blue Chip

you were one of the first who started hosting drag shows

at your own establishment.

Talk to me about that.

Talk to me about having those drag shows.

It was in the back building or something, right?

GARY SWEET: The Avenue Pub like I

said was basically a men's bar.

Women would come in occasionally because I had female bartenders

there.

And then there was a young man that came to me

and said, "We want to do a drag show."

And I said, "I have no room.

There's no way you could do a drag show."

"We need someplace to do a drag show."

And a very young guy, his name is Wayne and known

as Liza Minnelli.

And he pressured me and pressured me

and finally I said, "If you get some people together fine,

we'll find a way have a drag show."

And he was the Avenue's Pub first Miss Avenue Pub was Liza.

And he's proud of that title today, he really is.

I think he was probably eighteen.

And then some other drag queens started wanting to do shows.

And finally, I had a person that worked

for me who was very well known in the gay community.

He had his own bar for a while actually, it was Roy Lawrence.

And he was running the kitchen for a while doing dinners

and after hour breakfast.

And he was known in Rochester as Miss--

I don't think I'm going to pronounce it right--

Uru?

Uruhu?

And he decided he wanted to do a huge drag show that has never

been seen before.

And behind the Avenue Pub there was this large garage,

warehouse type thing that sat vacant.

And he said, "Why can't we do a drag show in there?"

I said, "Roy, it's not--" He said, "I'll take care of it."

Well, he put up a stage and runway

and we had drag shows behind the Avenue Pub.

Huge drag shows.

And that was one of the first, I believe,

Miss Gay Rochester was elected was back in that building.

And of course I had to have permits for that

because it wasn't part of the Avenue Pub per se.

But they were good times.

I mean, they were a lot of fun.

The Avenue pub was a drag bar at one point.

I've probably been about everything there

is to be in thirty-seven years.

But the first drag queen we had was Liza.

And that started that as everything else the fad changes

and the larger drag bars opened up, Jim's.

And the Avenue Pub wasn't equipped to do those anymore.

But it gave them a place to start and they enjoyed it.

It gave them a place for them to dress up and do their numbers.

And it was fun then.

I'm glad there are drag places now or places for drag shows,

such as Tilt I believe is today.

Back then it was 40 Union or Muthers it was for drag.

Everybody needs a place to go so.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to touch a little bit on the camaraderie

that a lot of you bar owners had among each other.

That you support each other.

You know, you each had your own little night

and you all respected that.

Talk to me about that camaraderie.

Talk to me about how important it

was in keeping this sense of community

for the gay community.

GARY SWEET: As the gay community became more accepted,

and once again Gordon Urlacher that

started opening doors for us with the police department,

bars started opening up.

There was Friar's and Rosie's.

Before that there were other bars,

but as it started getting bigger when they opened up

other bars started opening up and the Forum--

well the Forum was opened before me.

It was four gentlemen that owned.

That's why they're Bachelor Forum.

Four men opened it up was over on Goodman street and Main.

They're now on Atlantic.

And it was Friar's and Rosie's and myself.

And we decided that we had to do something

to band together and not hurt each other.

Because, you know, there was enough.

So we formed the Bar Owner's Association.

And once a month we would meet at each other's houses.

It was a different home every month

and establish our agenda for the month.

And if the Forum was planning a function

we all supported that function.

If Friar's was having a function or a fundraiser

or whatever it might be we all were behind it.

We 100 percent did not step on each other's toes

and it was great back then.

It was just wonderful.

We knew what the other bars were planning

and we knew when they were going to hold it.

We didn't try to compete with them.

When we were having ours they didn't try to compete with us.

When I had Christmas in July--

I think I had the first Christmas in July ever,

I actually dressed up a Santa Claus--

they all came out and supported it.

I mean, the owners would come to each other's functions.

And slowly when bars closed or when

people change that's dwindled.

Today I don't say we step on each other's toes,

we don't do that, but we're not 100 percent supportive

of each other.

And sorry it fell apart because it

was a great help for all of us to be able to plan together.

You know, and we would give each other ideas.

You know, well I'm too small to do this but hey, you can do it.

You know, why don't you do this.

A lot of it was for fund raising and a lot of it

was just for fun.

But we all hung each other's posters up

and helped each other.

And it was great back then.

KEVIN INDOVINO: And unique.

I hate to say this but I can't imagine

any of the straight bars doing that with each other.

GARY SWEET: The gay bars, we had to stick together because we

are a small community.

And to make all of the gay people

feel comfortable back then we tried

to do something that was different from any place else.

We tried to get them to know that all the bars got along

and we were all the same.

Differential from what type of crowd you had

or what size you were.

To make them know that they--

we were all in this together.

And it was a great experience at that time.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So let's move on a little bit to--

now, let's talk about AIDS.

You were a bar owner when AIDS hit Rochester.

Talk to me about those first days,

those first couple of years of when we started hearing

about AIDS in Rochester.

And what you were seeing happening in the bars,

in particularly your own bar.

And you had some fears yourself there

that you had to come to terms with.

GARY SWEET: The biggest change in the gay community

was when the AIDS epidemic first became well-known outside

of New York or San Francisco.

Rochester heard about this disease

that gay men were getting in San Francisco and New York

but it hadn't hit Rochester.

And the first few cases, or ten to fifteen cases

that were known.

It was a very well-kept secret.

People didn't go around saying I have AIDS.

Even today it's still a kept secret

even though we are much more informed

and the drugs are there are phenomenal today.

Thanks to people like Dr. Valenti.

But back then when we first heard about it

and I'm sorry to say that if someone came in to the pub--

and I don't think only my bar but other bars

also but I'm speaking for myself--

that people came in there that were known or looked

as if they had AIDS because back then it

progressed very rapidly because we didn't have the drugs.

It wasn't slow.

It was rapid.

You knew from weight loss, gauntness,

lesions on their face, whatever it might be.

You'd just, "He has AIDS" you just whispered.

And customers would shy away from them.

And even if they were known people, I mean,

if I knew them a year before that or six months

before that when they would come in

and the suspected, suspected of having AIDS,

people shunned away from them.

There were times when they'd serve them a drink

and people would say, "You're not going

to keep that glass are you?

You can't wash that and serve it to somebody else, you know."

After the customer left.

They were never told they couldn't come in.

But they were-- like when gay people first

came out you were ostracized.

I mean, it was that type of feeling

that you weren't welcome.

They felt it too.

Which I'm embarrassed to say that I ever,

ever partook in that but we were scared.

Nobody knew anything.

There was no information, there were no pamphlets for us

to read, there was nothing.

We only heard about it through the news,

from New York City, and San Francisco.

And when it started hitting you Rochester it was--

So yes, I did not keep the glass and I'm ashamed to say it.

It took probably a good eight months to a year

before we started having any knowledge, any written

information, any--

on how to stop-- not stop AIDS-- but how we can prevent

ourselves from getting AIDS.

And once again Dr. Valenti was a big part of that.

Stepping up and making issues aware to the public

here in Rochester and informing us

that this was not going away.

And it wasn't something to be ashamed of but you

have to do something to prevent it, the spread of it.

And he started having the pamphlets and the information

to the gay bars.

I mean, because that's where it was from.

And it was very, very scary in the beginning

and then we started doing the fundraisers.

Once again, like I said the HPA stuff and people were more

acceptable and knew that our brothers and sisters were

getting sick.

That they didn't have to get sick.

And we knew now how to prevent it.

We weren't going to stop it, but we

knew how to prevent it amongst ourselves.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Kind of following along with that.

We've already talked about this a little bit

but I want to explore it a little more.

At some point bar owners, like yourself,

realize that there's something we can do to help the cause.

That we can fund raise, we can help educate people

by keeping pamphlets in our bars or rolls of condoms

in our bars.

Just talk to me about coming to that realization

that OK, so this is not something

we have to be afraid of but it's actually something

we might be able to help with.

GARY SWEET: When Dr. Valenti started passing out pamphlets,

giving us something to read.

AIDS Rochester got involved wholeheartedly

with the men's outreach program.

They had a wagon that would stop and they were at my place

every Saturday night for people to

very discreetly go out and be tested in their wagon for AIDS.

This was very, very big for a long time

and then they started coming into the bars with condoms

and passing out pamphlets.

AIDS Rochester was just phenomenal as far as this goes.

They would come in.

They would have a group--

They would call first and say, well can we come in?

And have people that were more educated on it

that through, once again, Dr. Valenti.

Who educated these people and sent them out to the bars

to inform people about it.

So they would call first and say can we

come up and set the station up, and stuff like that.

And of course they were allowed in there.

And you know people could feel free to go over and talk

to them or discreetly and talk to them in private

if they wanted to.

And then they started coming out with free condoms for everybody

in the bars.

And now we have a huge bowl and AIDS Rochester still

supplies the condoms for the people

to take at their discretion.

And it really developed--

AIDS Rochester, with their men's outreach,

was the big turning point as far as getting people out

to the bars and educating the public, if they wanted to.

I mean, there was a lot more out there as far

as reading material and stuff.

But the outreach program I think was a big turning point

for the bars anyway because there were people visible,

wanting to help you, and willing to do something for you

without public knowledge.

It was very, very discreet.

So that was a big turning point.

And the condoms being in the bar all the time.

And there's always the fundraisers that come up.

And now there's a new one, I have a flyer up my bar

and I'm sorry, it's a AIDS vaccine

that they were asking people if they

want to take the test at or be part

of this research they're doing.

So there's always something that's

progressing as far as it goes.

Fortunately, the spread is not over but it's not as rapid

spreading as it was anymore.

And the drugs that we have today have the people

with HIV under control.

A very good friend of mine who has HIV,

he's had it from the beginning.

Still alive today and the virus is undetected because

of his medications.

It hasn't gone away, it's just it's undetected.

He's living a perfectly normal life.

And I'm so proud of it, I really am.

And it's all because of research and money

raised by people like us in Rochester

to support all of this.

Not only the movie stars.

It's people like us that have raised money also

for this research.

You don't have to be a movie star to raise money.

So Rochester has done a great amount of help

in this research for Rochester.

Because we have the facilities with the U of R and Strong.

And there's been a lot done here at Rochester

that's probably not known all over the world

but a lot has been done here at Rochester.

KEVIN INDOVINO: As you were talking something

comes to mind.

You about the early days at Dick's and Martha

being very protective of her boys.

As a bar owner, whose been a bar owner for thirty-seven years

now, did you ever feel that same kind of responsibility?

Did you feel a responsibility to really kind of be a little bit

protective of the community?

You know, to be there to educate us about AIDS,

to be there to support us in our other endeavors?

Has it been more than just a bar business for you?

GARY SWEET: The Avenue Pub has become a home for me.

My customers are my friends.

They're not just customers.