Video Interview, Harry Bronson, August 2, 2012

KEVIN INDOVINO: And I am rolling, sir.

OK.

Let's just start off generally, Harry.

Because actually Evelyn had mentioned to me

that you have an interesting coming-out story that she

wanted me to get out of you.

I have no idea what it is.

But what can you share with us as far

as coming out as a gay person?

HARRY BRONSON: Well, as I think most people

in the LGBT community understand and appreciate, coming out it

is an ongoing process.

It's not one event over another.

But there are a number of experiences

that I had to face that really put

coming out not only to individual friends,

but to the public.

And the one that actually happened

was when I became the president of the Gay Alliance.

And even though I had been out to my friends and my family

at that point, I had not been out to my business partners

and to many of my colleagues in the legal profession.

So what happened was I was the vice president

of the Gay Alliance.

And the then president decided he

was going to step down and announce that

to the whole board.

So the very next day, I had to go to my law partners and say,

"just so you know, I'm going to become the president of the Gay

Alliance.

And we do not have an executive director,

so the president is the spokesperson

for the organization.

So from this point forward, I'm going

to be talking to the media about being gay.

So I think you should probably know I'm gay."

That was received relatively well.

There were some partners who balked at the idea little bit.

But for the most part, it was received very, very well.

So that was my professional coming out time.

With my family years before that,

I had been trying to tell my mom and my dad

that I was gay for a long time.

And my mom and dad, they have 12 children.

I'm one of 12.

And so I had invited my mom and my brother and his wife

up for the weekend.

At that point, I lived in Buffalo, New York.

And I had invited them up and I said,

this is going to be the weekend.

I am going to tell them I'm gay this weekend.

And of course, we went through Friday night--

didn't tell them.

Went through Saturday all day--

didn't tell them.

Went through Sunday-- didn't tell them.

Monday morning, I'm getting ready to go to work,

they're getting ready to get in the car

and go back to my hometown, Windsor, New York.

And I said, "mom, come on into the bedroom.

I need to talk to you."

So she came in, and I said, "why don't you sit down."

And she goes, "oh, no.

This is a big one, isn't it?"

I said, "yeah, this is pretty big."

and at that point, I didn't know if my mom would really

know what the word gay meant.

Because she had lived a rather sheltered life.

And so I just said, "mom, I'm a homosexual."

And her immediate response was, oh no.

And her whole body language was deflated,

like I had just destroyed any image she had of who I was

and all that.

And we never really talked about what that phrase meant.

We went on and she said, "well, all right."

She goes, "I got to digest this, but I'm not

telling your father.

You have to tell your father.

And you're not bringing anybody home

until you tell your father."

So those were the rules.

They got in the car, drove home--

which was about a four hour drive from my apartment--

and then she called me.

And she said, "I thought about it on the way home."

She goes, "I don't understand this.

I don't get it.

But just so you know, I love you."

And so it was a very positive, positive experience for me.

Years later when we became more comfortable in talking

about my homosexuality and my sexual identity,

she and I were involved in a conversation.

So I posed to her the question of what she meant

when she blurted out, "oh no."

Because I had thought that I had affirmed suspicions

she may have had.

And that's not what it was at all.

She said to me that she immediately

envisioned a very difficult and oppressive life for me,

her son.

And that concerned her.

And it continued to concern her to the point

when I called her and sought her advice and guidance in deciding

whether or not I was going to become an elected official,

and at that point, she actually advised me

that I probably shouldn't do that

because of being gay and the difficulties

that that would cause.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to touch upon

that just a little bit about that conversation

with your mother about what did she mean when she said, "oh,

no."

Talk to me from your point of view really how--

I don't want to say how significant,

but maybe how fortunate you were to be

able to have that conversation with your mother.

Because there's a lot of kids out there

that would give to have that conversation.

HARRY BRONSON: Yeah.

Unfortunately, there are far, far too

many young people and other people

who come out to their families and don't

have a supportive response from their family member.

And don't get me wrong.

Mine wasn't all supportive.

We went through with some of the siblings

about we'll help you go through counseling

and all that kind of stuff.

But that was pretty short lived and they got it pretty quickly.

And my mom definitely got it.

But for me personally to have the love and the support

of my family, and in particular, my mom and my dad,

that allowed me then to develop and strengthen

the courage to then go out and be part of the general public

and say, I'm gay, but that's just one piece of me.

I'm many other things.

I'm an attorney.

I'm a male.

Now I love to read.

I love to bike.

There's lots of things about me.

Being gay is one aspect of it, albeit a very significant

aspect of it.

But to have my parents ultimately be supportive of who

I was, then there was at least one safe place in my life that

I didn't always have to feel this sense--

whether it was self-imposed or externally imposed--

this sense of defending who I was.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So let's go back a little further, then,

before you came out to your parents and your family--

long before you came out publicly.

What was life like for you?

HARRY BRONSON: Yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: What was it like being gay before,

was it a reluctance there?

Were you leading a difficult life?

HARRY BRONSON: Well, I grew up in a rural part of New York

state.

And aside from one other person--

as I was a young person, one other person I

knew who was gay.

I really did not know any gay people.

And so I generally felt that somehow I was different.

And at that point, growing up in the 70s and the 80s,

there was a lot of gay slurs and things of that nature.

Whether they were meant maliciously or not,

they were there.

And so I resisted the coming out process.

I probably knew very early on that I was gay,

but I did not come out until I was around 24, 25 years old,

which wasn't real long.

But it's later in life.

And so even though there was a point during law school

and a point during my beginning years as an attorney,

I had friends who knew I was gay, people who were

close to me who knew I was gay.

But my public persona was not a gay man.

And that, like many people I suspect,

created this internal struggle of wanting

to be a person of integrity, wanting

to be a person who was honest with himself

and with other people.

Yet the ongoing questions that would come up

in conversation of, what did you do

last night, who were you with, who are you dating, are you

married--

we all face those questions at some point.

And how do you answer those?

And at one point, quite frankly, I

answered them with total misinformation.

Then later on, I moved into an era

when I answered with everything was gender neutral, and giving

truthful information, but not quite accurate information,

if you can understand the distinction.

And the real turning point actually happened a year

before I moved to Rochester.

And that's when a partner in the firm that I was at found out I

was gay.

He was actually my mentor, and it was his job

to make sure that I was making the transition into a very

large firm, firm that has offices in five large cities.

And I practiced in Buffalo and in Manhattan, New York.

And it was his job to make sure I was making that transition.

And I don't know exactly how he found out,

but he found out that I was gay.

And he confronted me in my office.

He came into my office one day, closed the door,

sat down and said that he knew this information.

And I confirmed it.

And then he said, well, it's OK with me that you're gay.

But if other partners in the firm find out you're gay,

there will be no place for you in this firm.

And with a hint of courage, I told him to get the hell out

of my office.

And then I struggled for two weeks with that information

and what I was going to do with it.

And it occurred to me that that probably

was not the place for me to be.

And two weeks later I resigned.

That was before SONDA--

Sexual Orientation Nondiscrimination Act--

was passed.

So there were not any direct statutes or laws that gave us

protections in the workplace.

There were some arguments that because of the ethics

rules for lawyers--

there were some people who were starting

to make cases of anti-discrimination

on the basis of sexual orientation.

But I chose a different route and decided

that it wasn't worth my time or my effort

to try to fit into a place that didn't want me to fit in,

at least as he had expressed it to me.

Whether or not that was the case, I'm not sure,

but I think he probably knew.

So I resigned from the firm.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Is that when you came to Boston?

HARRY BRONSON: Yeah.

And then shortly thereafter, I moved to the Rochester area.

And that's when I joined another firm which I became partners

with, and they were accepting and it all

turned out very well.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So let's move forward a little bit.

HARRY BRONSON: OK.

KEVIN INDOVINO: All of a sudden, you're now the president

of the Gay Alliance.

HARRY BRONSON: Yes.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Talk to me about that particular time

for the Gay Alliance.

What were the kind of things that were going on?

What were some of the challenges that the Gay Alliance were

faced with, both internally as an organization,

but also what they were trying to do in the community?

What was it like?

HARRY BRONSON: Yeah.

I was president of the Gay Alliance from October of '96

into May of 1999.

So it was almost a three year term,

because I had taken over for the vice president,

finished that term, and then was elected

for two year terms in a row.

And at that point, the Gay Alliance

was going through a transition.

We were trying very hard to move as an organization from a board

run organization to an executive director run organization.

By that, I mean day-to-day operations.

And so we worked an awful lot about getting state funding

so that we could get enough funding for the organization

so that we could hire the very first executive director, which

actually happened.

But what was happening at the state level is all of a sudden,

there was more and more funding for LGBT issues.

The AIDS movement, or the response to the AIDS crisis,

had happened in the early part of the 80s,

and then the real response happened later

in the 80s and the early part of the 90s.

And now state organizations, including New York state,

were starting to realize, well, there

is an aspect of our citizenship that we need to address.

And that was the gay community.

And so they were starting to find funding

streams that were non AIDS/HIV related.

And with the help of statewide political organizations,

the Gay Alliance linked into a network.

And we were able to get additional funding

and hire an executive director.

So that's from an operational standpoint.

From a programmatic standpoint, many of the issues

that the GAGV addresses today we were addressing then,

with the exception of one which I'll talk about in a minute.

And that is the whole self-esteem, hopefulness,

wanting young people to celebrate who they are and not

feel like they're being oppressed

for being gay or lesbian, bisexual or transgender.

And we offered a lot of youth programs at that point.

And we really were expanding those youth programs

and the whole coming out.

And then for older individuals, we

were offering, for the most part,

social groups so that people could come together and have

a sense of community and things of that nature.

And much of that's going on today.

I think it has expanded a lot more since I've left the GAGV.

Even though we had a speakers' bureau,

now I think that the GAGV is hitting a lot more schools,

a lot more agencies across the county,

and a lot more community groups across the counties,

just to help educate folks about our community.

But the one area that the Gay Alliance is involved in now

that we really were not involved in at all

is working with older LGBT members and seniors who

are looking for a place where they

can have a sense of community, a sense of gathering,

and being able to meet with folks and enjoy who they are

and things of that nature.

And I know that GAGV is doing a lot of that work now.

KEVIN INDOVINO: When you look at Rochester, the size city

that Rochester is-- and oftentimes I say,

Rochester is really just a big town that

likes to think it's a city.

But how significant is it that we have

an organization like the GAGV?

HARRY BRONSON: It's huge.

And you cannot understate how important it is that the Gay

Alliance is here.

It helped me come out in a full way.

Not only because of the necessity of me coming out,

but the way I got involved in the Gay

Alliance was by attending one of the groups.

And it was a coming out group that

was run by the then program director.

And I got to meet so many different people

and realize that I might be different than some folks

in our community, but there was a lot

of folks who are a lot like me.

And that helped me understand that we really

should be celebrating our differences

and acknowledging them, but to also realize that deep inside,

most of us are very much alike.

I think the vast majority of us really

have the same desires in life.

We want to be happy.

We want to be loved.

We want someone to love.

And we want to feel like we're part of a community.

And the Gay Alliance helped me to do all of that.

And I think that it continues to date

to do that for our young people and to do that for other people

throughout our community.

And without the Gay Alliance, I really

can't see that happening.

And merely having the social outlet that the Gay Alliance

offers to people--

if it's one time a year to go to some pride event,

that is so priceless for so many people.

And it gives them an opportunity to maybe wave

the pride flag or hug somebody or kiss someone in public.

All those behaviors are symbols of saying,

I'm proud of who I am.

And I think we all need that from time to time.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to broaden

the question a little bit.

Same kind of question in regards to Rochester and who we are.

But beyond just the Gay Alliance--

I know you weren't born and raised here,

but what you know of Rochester, what

does it say about our community who has really

been at the forefront of a lot of gay issues and legislation?

Again, what does it say about Rochester

and who we are as a community, beyond just the Gay Alliance?

HARRY BRONSON: Yeah.

I think there's a lot of things that contribute to that.

We're a relatively highly educated community.

We're a community where because of the three

large manufacturers in town brought a lot of folks

into this area from other areas.

So the diversity in the general public had already existed.

And then we have a tradition of promoting and advocating

civil rights, whether it was the abolitionists

or whether it was women's suffrage.

Two historic figures--

Frederick Douglass and Susan B Anthony--

who, at one point in their careers,

had their home based here.

So that's all part of who we are.

And then also in the 60s with the civil rights

movement-- huge in the city of Rochester,

for a city of our size, as you pointed out.

And I think that there were folks who were here

who came from those different backgrounds

and who realize that it is activism

and it's advocacy that will change the world.

And they wanted to see that happen.

So there were many, many, many people

in our community who decided that they were not

going to be silent.

They were going to speak out and help educate the general public

about what it's like to be gay and what

it's like to feel like you're not

part of the broader community.

And I'll digress just slightly, if you'll let me.

When I was first involved in the Gay Alliance--

and I was there for six years, so I worked at the Alliance

for a long time.

And it was really interesting, because there

was a struggle at that point with some folk who

feared that the lesbian and gay community

were going to assimilate into the general public.

And that if we did that, then we were

going to lose our identity, lose our culture,

lose who we were as a community and who we are as a community.

And so I remember having really in-depth conversations

with some of the folks who are many years

my senior about that issue.

And some of them really did not want us to go in the direction

that we were starting to go into in the mid-90s.

And I, on the other hand, I always

knew that that was a risk.

And I still think we've got to be cognizant of that risk.

And that's why having the gay parade and the festival

and all those events that--

ImageOut-- all of the events that we

have that celebrate our community,

we've got to continue to do that.

Because that keeps our culture intact.

But at the same time, as more and more of us

are becoming families who are raising families,

more and more of us are becoming out--

and now that we have marriage equality.

I mean, all those things-- we really

have become much more assimilated

into the general public.

And I think that the visibility and the assimilation

is what allowed us to have those victories.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Here's an interesting question.

And I'm not even sure it has an answer to it.

But what is our community?

Who is our community?

Like you said, we could so easily get assimilated now,

and as you said, lose our cultural identity.

What is our cultural identity?

HARRY BRONSON: That is a very good question.

But I don't think it's much different than asking

the question, what is the Italian culture, what's

the German culture--

in America, that is.

Our culture is grown out of the depths of oppression.

Our culture is grown out of the depths of hatred.

Our culture is grown out of the depths

of struggling with our own self esteem because

of those external pressures.

That creates individuals who have a strength

that I don't think, with all due respect, folks who haven't

gone through that understand.

But to put that in a more concrete way

would be as difficult, I think, as having

a woman in our culture say, why is it

different to be a female in the American Society.

It's very hard to put into words,

but there is a difference.

And I think that when I was referring

to celebrating our culture and make sure we have our identity,

I think what I'm referring to is making sure that we are all

comfortable enough to exhibit behaviors to say who we are,

to be happy about that, and even if there's

this little voice in the back of our minds reminding us

of times when things may have happened that were not

so comfortable when you did that, but there's

a louder voice that says be proud of who you are

and it's OK if you're holding hands with your boyfriend going

down the street right now.

And if negative things happen because of that,

it's not because of who you are and it's not

because of what you're doing.

It's because of the response that the other person

is giving.

And making sure that we continue to have folks

within the gay, lesbian, bisexual, and trans community

understand that we need to manifest our behaviors

and our attitudes in that direction,

but also to understand that just like every other community,

there is a effeminate men and there are masculine men.

There are effeminate women and masculine women.

There are people who struggle with their sexual identity.

So our culture doesn't mean that each one of us

isn't very different.

It just means that we have a commonality,

and that's what we should be celebrating.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So let's talk a little bit

about your business life.

HARRY BRONSON: OK.

KEVIN INDOVINO: You're a partner at a law firm.

What role, if any, did your identity as a gay man

play in your business life, or did you ever

find it to be a hindrance in some of your business affairs?

HARRY BRONSON: Yeah.

It sometimes benefited, other times it didn't.

There's a client that I used to have when I was at the law firm

and who did not know I was gay, and there

was no reason for me to have that conversation with them.

When we talked, we talked about his preparation

to become a witness in a grand jury proceeding.

And he was a regular client, so I represented him

in a lot of different litigation matters--

his organization.

But after I ran for public office, when

I ran for county legislature the very first time,

I ran as an openly gay man.

He called my law partner and said,

how come you never told me Harry Bronson was gay?

And I love the response that he gave.

According to him, his response was,

the same reason I didn't tell partner so-and-so

is married and has two kids.

What difference does it make?

The reality is you hired us to be good lawyers,

and that's what we try to do is be good lawyers for you.

But most of the time, it's been positive.

It's helped with marketing.

Obviously there's lots of people to market within our community.

And being gay and marketing and the community has been helpful.

I handled a lot of anti-discrimination litigation.

So it also helped me when I would

talk to clients who may be discriminated

for other reasons-- racial discrimination,

religious discrimination, disability, other reasons.

It was helpful for me to sometimes explain to them

that I, too, had experienced discriminatory practices.

And so it's not that I was coming

from this with no knowledge of what they were going through.

I had some knowledge, although I always put out that caveat.

For instance, if I was talking to a black man,

I will never understand what it's like being a black man,

as you will never understand what it's like being a gay man.

We can have some appreciation for it,

but we will never have a full appreciation for that.

So it was helpful for me in those anti-discrimination

matters where I would represent folks

to be able to share sometimes that I, too, had experienced

that type of discrimination, that type of oppression,

and understood what they were going through to some degree.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So then we get to politics.

HARRY BRONSON: OK.

KEVIN INDOVINO: You decided to run for, first,

county legislature, right?

HARRY BRONSON: Well, first I ran for state Senate,

was unsuccessful, and then county legislature.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Why?

Why politics?

HARRY BRONSON: Well, I just went to my undergrad alma mater

where they were celebrating their 150th anniversary.

And I was presenting a proclamation from the New York

State Assembly.

And the president of the university

looked at my degrees and my degrees

in Public Justice, which I took as a pre-law program,

and minor in political science, and she's looking at it

and she's like, oh my god.

You did exactly what you went to school here for.

And I had to laugh.

And then I had that constant urge to be fully honest.

I said to her, well, the pre-law public justice thing--

that was totally planned.

The political science minor was when

I went into my curriculum counselor

and she said, you know you're only two

courses short of getting a poli sci minor,

would you like to get one?

I'm like, yeah.

Yeah.

Let's do it.

Which courses?

So that's how I started that.

But ultimately, the getting involved in politics

has been an absolute natural extension of my entire life

and my entire work career.

I knew when I was eight years old I wanted to be a lawyer.

I told my mom I wanted to be a lawyer then,

and she just laughed at me.

And I did that.

And I ultimately got into anti-discrimination law

and representing people on civil rights issues,

and representing folks because of feeling a need that offering

opportunities and offering solutions to problems

was really what was necessary.

And getting involved in politics,

getting involved in government is just an extension of that.

It is a peace of giving back.

It's creating opportunities for other people

and making sure that the opportunities

exist so that if somebody works hard and challenges themselves

and tries to be successful, that they have

the opportunities to do that.

And so that's the primary reason of getting

involved in politics.

And I see myself as a problem solver.

And we have a lot of problems in our government.

And we need people who are willing to roll up

their sleeves and try to solve those problems.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I have one or two more questions.

HARRY BRONSON: OK.

CREW: I'm going to have you kind of blot yourself a little bit.

HARRY BRONSON: Yeah.

It's getting warm in here.

That fan has been off long enough.

CREW: Just take that and just blot yourself a little bit.

HARRY BRONSON: I noticed it on YouTube, by the way.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

HARRY BRONSON: But you don't have the camera.

KEVIN INDOVINO: You know, I am dying.

So I know he's even worse.

(laughing)

HARRY BRONSON: Yeah.

OK.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Still rolling?

CREW: Still rolling.

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.

So with politics, you had to make that decision

to run as an openly gay man.

Talk to me about the process of making that decision.

I have to imagine there had to be some debate back and forth

whether or whether not you should do it.

HARRY BRONSON: Yeah.

There was a lot of debate.

I think I mentioned early on in our conversation

about the coming out process being an ongoing process,

and you constantly have coming out experiences.

And this was another one of those.

It was taking the coming out situation

and expanding it to many, many, many people

I may or may not ever speak with,

because it's so very public.

And I had mentioned that my mom was very cautious about that

and was concerned and raised the topic

of why do you want to put yourself out there,

and are you sure you really want to do this.

And that helped me to think about it

and ultimately make, what I think, was the right decision.

And that is that as much as we have worked with young people

so that they can develop their own self-esteem

and we work with people in the coming out process and things

of that nature, I am thoroughly convinced

that there is no better way than to be visible yourself

to help other people.

Because as folks get to meet you and know you--

and this can be in any occupation,

but politics is very public--

then they start to be educated about who

and what gay folks are all about.

And so I struggled with it and I was concerned about it.

And I and I prepared myself for the negative campaigning

against someone who is openly gay

and all those kind of things, and ultimately decided

that the reward was going to be much greater than the risk,

and that I was comfortable enough in who I was

and where I was in my life, and comfortable enough

in what I had to offer the general public that

becoming an elected official was right for me.

And so I ran for the county legislature

and was successful in doing that.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Then you eventually run for assembly.

Was it your first year in assembly that gay marriage

passed in New York?

Were you in assembly by then?

HARRY BRONSON: Yes.

Yes.

It was my very first year in the assembly.

And an interesting story about-- well, first of all,

let me jump back to the county legislature just for a second,

and say there were actually two points there.

One was becoming a county legislator

where I represented a particular district.

And then the second was when the then minority

leader of the democratic legislative caucus

decided she was going to seek a position as a city

councilwoman, which she was successful at.

And I then threw my hat in the ring

to become the next minority leader.

And quite frankly, that was not well received

by many people in my party.

They were concerned about an openly gay person

being the minority leader and being

the spokesperson for the Democrats

in the county legislature.

And that was another experience where

the backlash of being openly gay was

really felt, and really hurt--

hurt more than probably any of the other scenarios,

because these were my friends.

And these were folks who I had developed a deep respect

for in our mutual goals as a party.

And to have them suggest that having a gay man as a minority

leader that the county residents weren't ready for that,

and that was not going to be good for the Democratic caucus.

And all I can say is that it hurt

a lot, which also made me more determined to make it happen.

Which, fortunately, it did happen.

And fortunately, the people in the conference

who are the people who are in charge of voting unanimously

supported me in that effort.

But it just goes to show you some of the people

that you think are your closest allies,

sometimes the manifestations of stereotypes and oppression

come out.

And I don't think they were doing it maliciously.

I don't think they meant to be hurtful to me.

But the reality was in their narrow understanding

of what it meant to be openly gay

and being a representative and elected official prevented them

from taking that next step forward and allowing an elected

official who is openly gay be a leader

in a particular political setting.

But back to your question.

KEVIN INDOVINO: But eventually it happened

and they got over it, right?

HARRY BRONSON: It happened.

And once again, it goes back to that visibility

and that exposure.

Not only did they get over it, but immediately

realized that this actually was a good thing.

And it actually turned out to be not--

the fears that they were expecting

did not manifest themselves at all.

And at one point with Harry Bronson standing on the county

legislative floor where Fox national news was there

covering an event, and the appropriate time came

to talk about hurtful language that

involved the disability community.

And I shared my own story about being openly gay,

and how whether intentional or not intentional

hurtful language or offensive language can really

be problematic, and what happens to the individual

when you hear that.

And we have to be very cautious about that.

And we have to learn how our language can be hurtful.

And that was in front of Fox national news.

And nobody blinked an eye.

So it worked out well.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Good.

Yeah.

So let's move back onto the assembly then.

HARRY BRONSON: OK.

KEVIN INDOVINO: And I just really

want to touch briefly on the passage of gay marriage in New

York.

Talk to me about your involvement

and some of the work that you did to help

get that moved along.

HARRY BRONSON: Yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: And then bring it

around to how it made you feel when it finally passed.

HARRY BRONSON: Yeah.

Yeah.

As everyone will understand, marriage equality

was a very, very long process.

It took years and years and years

to get us to the point in 2011 when we actually passed it.

And my involvement was as a gay member

of the gay caucus, if you will.

There's five of us in the state legislature.

I'm the only one from upstate New York,

and the only one considered in a marginal district.

And what happened was really a very interesting experience

from my part, because immediately when

I became a member, Daniel Donald, who

was the sponsor of the bill, he called a caucus meeting.

We all got together and we strategized.

We looked at the number of votes that we

had lost in the assembly because of the previous election.

And we had lost, I think it was eight votes because

of the previous election-- eight yes votes

from the year before in the assembly.

And we had five vacancies in the assembly

as well, because of appointments or retirements.

Those were also yes votes.

So we were down a lot of votes in the assembly.

And so we were strategizing who to reach out

to in the assembly-- new members and people who

were on the fence who had voted no in the past who we might

convince to vote yes, so that we could get our numbers up

to as high as possible.

And so that was the assembly strategy.

And the Senate strategy, then we identified senators

that we think could switch from their no vote the year

before to a yes vote.

And then we tried to figure out who had connections

and what those connections was and what our message would be,

and all those kinds of things.

And all of this was in work with the governor's office.

So the governor's office was fully

aware of what we were doing in the legislative piece of this.

And mind you, I shared the story about the county legislature.

And what made me think of that actually when

you mentioned the marriage equality,

the same scenario happened in the assembly

when the leadership was making the proposal

that we put the marriage equality bill up

for another vote.

There were folks in our Democratic caucus

who had voted yes in the past, but they

didn't want to put themselves out there again

and vote yes unless the Senate was guaranteed to vote yes.

And so there was this constant struggle in the strategy.

Should the assembly continue to be the leader here, vote

on the bill again and take the risk

that the Senate doesn't happen?

Or do we get a commitment from the Senate

and then take the vote and be the leader in time,

but not necessarily-- it's a planned approach.

Or do we not take the risk at all and just hold off?

Wait for the Senate to vote for it, and then we vote for it,

we'll pass it, and then the governor

had committed to sign it into law.

Ultimately we decided in the assembly

we were going to pass the bill first,

and we weren't going to wait for the governor

to submit a program bill.

Because we were going up and down,

up and down on whether the Senate was going to pass it,

are they not going to pass it.

Three weeks of protest in the hallways.

It was phenomenal.

At one point, the assembly member who sits next to me

on the floor looked at me.

She goes, Harry, just get out of here and go over there.

You know that's where you want to be.

So I got up and just went over to the Senate chambers,

because outside of the Senate chambers

is where all the protesters were, both pro and con.

And so I could be part of it.

And so I was able to experience some of that

and get away from my duties as an assembly

member for a short while.

But ultimately, we were successful in getting

a lot of changes in the assembly to yes votes.

And on the Senate side, with a lot of help from the governor

and a lot of help from the advocates and labor groups,

business groups, religious groups, local officials--

I mean, the community--

I mean, there was such a coalesce

of folks who just came together and wanted to make this happen.

It was phenomenal.

But what a lot of people don't understand,

because the media just covered the flips on the Senate

Republican side to yes votes, there

were also three Democrats who decided

to flip and say yes this time.

And that's really what put the bill over the top

were those six votes that flipped from no to yes.

And then there was one Republican that

was a new person who voted yes.

And then there was one Democrat who

was a new person who voted yes in the Senate.

So behind the scenes, it was phone call after phone call

after phone call, going to people in the hallways

and talking to them and trying to implore

them to do the right thing.

And the arguments were all different.

Sometimes the arguments were economics.

Sometimes the arguments were this is a civil rights issue.

Sometimes the arguments were it's

all about love and commitment, and why should we

deny anybody the ability to enter a loving and committed

relationship.

And sometimes the argument was it's going to happen.

Do you want to be on the right side of history

or the wrong side of history?

So there were all kinds of different messages

that we were using.

And ultimately, it was successful.

And quite frankly, we had already

passed it in the assembly.

And what a lot of people don't understand

is there is actually two bills that got passed.

One is the regular anti-discrimination bill.