Video Interview, Lieutenant Governor Robert Duffy, April 24, 2013
- ROBERT DUFFY: --too I think, but that's OK.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And I actually just
- met your wife for the first time not too long ago.
- ROBERT DUFFY: Did you really?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: She was having drinks with Todd Perkins.
- ROBERT DUFFY: Oh, god.
- Todd, he's a riot.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I walked in, and you know, of course, Todd
- is like, hey, how you doing?
- ROBERT DUFFY: Every time-- he took a couch out of our--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I didn't know who he was at first until like,
- a half hour later.
- ROBERT DUFFY: Aw, sure, right.
- I see Todd, I start to--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: (unintelligible) Mrs. Bob Duffy,
- and like, oh, OK.
- ROBERT DUFFY: I start to laugh every time I see him.
- And we're getting ready to clean our house.
- We had a couch that-- a real estate
- picture had this couch in the basement,
- and my father gave it to us.
- So he ends up tweeting, or maybe just texted Barbara,
- "Oh, you know, what an ugly couch."
- Something like that.
- And then he's like, "Hey, can we have it for the cottage?"
- So he came over, he brought somebody--
- actually Barb found some legs for it.
- But aw, he's a great guy.
- I actually went to his wedding.
- It was last-- it was last year.
- Yep, and I remember that reception on Monroe Avenue.
- And East Avenue, the restaurant East Avenue.
- And I thought that service was really, really-- it was nice.
- It was a great service.
- It's was my first time at that church.
- I had never been there before.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Alright.
- Are you ready to roll?
- CREW: (unintelligible)
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Did (unintelligible)
- send these to you?
- ROBERT DUFFY: I actually--
- Sean, I look at those?
- I'm like, just, wing it?
- You can ask me anything.
- And if the answer is too long, give me a hi sign.
- I'll try and keep it somewhat cogent.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Let's keep this--
- it's a conversation between you and I.
- Don't worry about the camera or anything like that.
- You know, if you want to stop, say let me try that again.
- ROBERT DUFFY: Is that too--
- try and get casual here.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: (unintelligible)--
- CREW: (unintelligible)--
- ROBERT DUFFY: OK.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Are we rolling?
- CREW: I'm rolling.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- So we want to go back a little bit, mid-1970s.
- You started with the police force in '76.
- ROBERT DUFFY: 1976.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- So you know, this is just a few years after the Stonewall Riots
- happened in New York.
- And then in '74, where Urlacher started the Liaison
- Program with the gay and lesbian community.
- And I just kind of want to get a sense from you
- of the sense of the environment back then,
- with that relationship between the city
- police and the gay and lesbian community, and how-- from what
- you had witnessed, as a new police
- officer on the force, kind of-- just your sense of how really
- kind of unprecedented it was for a city to do that back
- forty years ago.
- ROBERT DUFFY: I look back in time
- and I can't think of any issues or problems that I witnessed.
- I think the one thing that I did have
- a sense of is there was a distrust on behalf
- of the community, in terms of, if they reported crimes or had
- issues, would the police be fair to them?
- So that liaison was established back then.
- I think it started a process of communication that probably
- was unprecedented with other police departments
- across the country.
- And over the years, that just evolved.
- And like any relationship, I think it takes time to nurture.
- It takes trust.
- It takes communication.
- I'm sure there were many issues and many examples of distrust
- along the way, and sometimes it could
- have been the interactions with police officers
- that weren't positive, or people in the community.
- But I do think, you know, Rochester has always been
- a pretty enlightened community.
- And while it's not perfect, I think
- that it does not surprise me that we were one of the first
- to do that back in the seventies.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: When we talk to other people,
- like, we interviewed Urlacher as well,
- one of the things particularly he brought up,
- and some other police officers brought up,
- was that gays and lesbians were afraid to report crimes
- against them, because they felt like they were going
- to be either not listened to or maybe
- even just kind of rejected, in regards to,
- or-- and some people were afraid to be exposed, you know,
- in the newspapers or whatever.
- Just maybe some brief thoughts on that,
- and how that relationship-building helped
- break through that.
- ROBERT DUFFY: Well, I think the liaisons helped.
- They started to build trust.
- And I think the fact that people realized that the police
- department had someone, or an office,
- they could go to was helpful.
- But if you look back in time, and it was a different era
- in our history, and there--
- you know, I think people in the gay and lesbian community
- who did not want to come out at that time,
- if they were in a situation that it might be reported
- in a way that might impact them, their job, their family,
- their neighbors, they were distrustful of that.
- You know, I look back.
- I can't think of any time in my experience
- with police officers in the police department
- that there were negative things said.
- It just-- I think that was part of our community
- was evolving at that time.
- And I think part of it was, while the liaison helped
- establish communication, a lot of it
- too was educating people in the community,
- educating police officers in the department,
- expectations for their service, and perhaps some of the issues
- why that distrust existed.
- So I think it was an issue of building trust.
- It was listening.
- It was reporting.
- It was providing service.
- It was also providing discretion,
- understanding why some of the fears and concerns were raised.
- And again, I think what we have from the seventies to now
- is really an evolutionary process, where now,
- things are done without even thinking and not
- even a concern.
- Back then, it was all part of a process of learning.
- And I'm sure there are many people in the community,
- and many people that may listen to this, or watch this film,
- that may have examples where things didn't go well,
- or weren't perfect.
- And I acknowledge that.
- I don't think there's any other way to explain that.
- But I think it was a great learning
- experience all the way around.
- And going back to Chief Urlacher was, I think,
- the one who started the program.
- And I remember thinking at that time,
- it was an extraordinary move on his part to do that.
- But it just, again, people that I knew, friends of mine,
- people I knew in Rochester and throughout this community,
- I think that they respected that.
- They respected him at that time for starting it.
- And I think that was a great lesson,
- and again, he deserves credit for its inception.
- And I think others have carried it
- along ever since for decades.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: You eventually became police chief,
- and then eventually the mayor of the city.
- And we don't really need to delve into that too much.
- I just want to get a sense from you of--
- what, in a sense, I'm trying to get from everybody,
- really is what is it about Rochester?
- From your point of view, as the police chief
- and the former mayor, they've always
- been this champion for the underdog,
- from the Underground Railroad and the abolition of slavery,
- to the women's rights movement, to the civil rights movement,
- and very strong leadership even in the gay rights movement.
- What do you think it is about this city that puts us
- at the forefront all the time?
- ROBERT DUFFY: There is a spirit here.
- And I think, as you mentioned, some examples,
- it goes back to Frederick Douglass, Susan B. Anthony,
- and George Eastman, and you can go right on through the fabric
- of this community.
- It's always had a strong sense of social justice.
- And again, Rochester is not perfect.
- And while somebody at one point labeled it Smugtown,
- I think that that was not exactly an appropriate label
- to give.
- I mean, certainly there is smugness
- and there are issues everywhere.
- But this is a very special place.
- And I just was saying before as we were getting rid to film,
- you know, I'm born and raised here.
- And I have a job now that takes me all around the state.
- So I'm from New York City to Buffalo and from Binghamton
- to Watertown, the Adirondacks, everywhere in between.
- But I have no intention of leaving Rochester.
- This is my home.
- And when I come home, it feels great.
- I have friends and relationships here.
- And what I have seen over time is
- that while no place is perfect, it is a very special place.
- And I have seen people that are so giving, so open,
- and part of it, really-- it probably
- goes back to our history.
- It goes back to, again, Frederick Douglass and Susan B.
- Anthony.
- But there have been incredible leaders in many different
- levels of many different organizations--
- elected officials, business leaders, community leaders--
- ever since, that really helped shape where we are today.
- And shaping that where we are today came with a price.
- I mean, certainly nothing happened easily.
- Nothing happened quickly.
- There's always resistance.
- There's always a pull to the status quo.
- I think you're always going to have vestiges of discrimination
- that people will carry.
- And the best way to fight discrimination and racism
- is to educate, and to have people understand
- that everyone is the same.
- They are.
- I mean, we may look different, talk different, be different.
- We're the same.
- And I think trying to reinforce that at every opportunity
- is part of--
- or I think it puts Rochester apart.
- And I have many friends, many friends in the gay and lesbian
- community who came from elsewhere to here,
- came from other cities in upstate New York to here,
- and found a world of difference maybe an hour
- or two or three hours away from where they were.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So at the present day,
- you're with the governor's office.
- You know, this community, here in Rochester, (unintelligible),
- for over thirty-five years tried to get gay marriage passed
- in New York State, and continue hitting their heads up
- against the wall, really, it would go through the Senate
- and it would get denied, or the Assembly, you know.
- You and Governor Cuomo got into office and within a year,
- you got it passed.
- Can you talk to me a little bit about the process?
- And more importantly, why did you
- think it was the right time that you could get it passed?
- ROBERT DUFFY: Well, I'll give, first
- and foremost, Governor Cuomo credit,
- because coming in as the governor,
- he made it a priority.
- He had a lieutenant governor who also
- believed it was a top priority for the state.
- It's really about civil rights.
- It's about justice.
- And what the governor did that was
- different from other governors, other governors,
- other leaders may have talked about it.
- This governor put together a game plan.
- And that game plan was working behind the scenes very
- feverishly for quite a while, since coming into office,
- organizing, getting people together, organizing
- across many different lines to get support for it.
- And then what the governor does extremely well, really where
- his strength lies, is his political instincts
- and his ability to get things done in that chamber
- and in the capital.
- And it was about getting Democrats and Republicans
- and, in this case, four Republicans in the Senate
- to come forward and vote, and vote
- in a way that was contrary to their colleagues,
- and he did that.
- And one thing I would say is that while the votes were
- pretty much along party lines, that in the end,
- four Republicans were instrumental in helping
- to carry that through the Senate with the Democrat colleagues.
- I do believe a lot of people that
- voted no for marriage equality believe in marriage equality,
- in their hearts support marriage equality,
- but their number-one goal is getting re-elected,
- and they felt if they were to vote yes, they
- wouldn't get re-elected.
- And one thing I would have to say,
- they might not want me to credit them in this way,
- but Senator Dean Skelos from the Assembly, a majority
- Republican senator, as well as Senator Tom
- Libous from the Southern Tier, they
- made a decision to let that come to the floor for a vote.
- They could have blocked that.
- And they were criticized heavily by people
- on their side of the aisle and other areas
- why they let that come to the floor for a vote.
- I thought that was a critical decision.
- And sometimes, the four get credit,
- but Senator Skelos and Senator Libous
- don't get credit for that.
- And I believe they deserve to get there.
- And so I think a perfect storm of things happened.
- I do believe society has changed so
- much across the state, our younger generation,
- this is a no-brainer for them.
- And it really is.
- I have two daughters, and to them, they'd
- be like, why wouldn't this be legal?
- And it is breaking through some of these old thought patterns
- and positions that sometimes become very political.
- And you had a huge lobby against it,
- and a very strong lobby for it.
- But the governor and the team we had in Albany
- worked very hard to get there.
- And I remember the night of the vote very well.
- I remember the process very well.
- There are too many people to name
- that deserve credit, that had roles large and small
- throughout this, but I will tell you this.
- One of the most powerful entities in the gay rights
- movement, if you look outside of New York City,
- I believe Rochester has to be a close number two, because
- of just the influence and power and voices
- that emanate from this community have been strong
- for a long, long time.
- This has been a very progressive city,
- and as we mentioned before, one that is very different.
- And I do think that Rochester did carry a lot of weight,
- maybe not just politically, but in other ways, just
- over the years being part of that change process.
- But it was a beautiful thing to see pass.
- It's put our state in a different position.
- I could certainly answer any questions
- on stories behind the scenes.
- But one thing I--
- in my mind, one of the most incredible experiences
- of my career was the following Sunday,
- going in the pride parade in New York City
- after the vote was taken.
- I have never seen anything like it.
- There had to be a million-plus people lining the streets.
- We walked through Fifth Avenue into Soho and to Greenwich
- Village, and people just screaming and yelling,
- so incredibly happy.
- I remember saying to the governor
- as we're walking side by side, Mayor Bloomberg was there,
- you know, I said, "You really helped lead a change that
- changed people's lives."
- It did.
- And that was one of the most profound experiences,
- because these were men and women that were denied a basic right
- and opportunity before, who now are free to choose who to marry
- and when to marry.
- And what would seem like such a simple thing, why
- it took so long, I don't know.
- But I'm proud of our governor.
- I'm proud of everybody who worked on it.
- I'm proud of the legislators who voted yes.
- And I'm proud of the senators who,
- while they did not vote yes, let that vote come to the floor
- to really show the country where New York State's heart is.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm going to just backtrack a little bit.
- I'm not going to let you off the hook.
- You give Governor Cuomo a lot of credit, other people a lot
- of credit.
- But I know a lot of credit goes to you.
- You had a lot of navigation to do within that storm.
- Can you talk to me a little bit about that,
- about opening up the dialogue between the two sides,
- and listening to the grassroots organizations and all that?
- ROBERT DUFFY: I had some discussions.
- And I'm one, if you know me well enough,
- maybe it's contrary to people in politics.
- I don't like to take credit.
- I like to give credit, because I think a lot of people
- deserve credit.
- I certainly had a multitude of conversations
- and different roles that the governor gave me
- during that process, which I'm very proud of.
- I'll share one story with you, an inside story
- that not a lot of people know about.
- I won't share names.
- But there was one senator who had pledged to the governor,
- and I remember being there in a room, very small room, where
- he pledged he would vote yes.
- Governor took him at his word, and it
- was a process of bringing people in, talking to them,
- getting their agreement to vote yes.
- Well, this senator did say yes.
- And perhaps a day or two before the vote was going to be taken,
- I was called down to the governor's office from mine,
- and the senator was coming in with one of his colleagues.
- And we sat in a small room.
- It was like four of us.
- And he sat down, and governor sat down, and basically said,
- what's up?
- And he said, "Well, I'm here to tell you
- that I know what I said before, but I can't vote yes.
- I have to vote no."
- Governor said, "Could you repeat that?"
- And he said, "I'm here to tell you
- I promised you I'd vote yes.
- And I'm going to have to vote no."
- Without another word, Governor Cuomo
- gets up, walks to one door, closes it,
- walks to the other door, closes it, sits down,
- got a little closer to the senator, and said,
- "I want you to tell me one more time what you just said."
- Well, it was a moment.
- The governor had his words.
- When he was done, I went in with my words
- on it, because I was there when that promise was made.
- And that person left not feeling very good.
- But in less than twenty-four hours,
- that senator did go back to his original position,
- and voted yes.
- And I'm proud of him for doing that.
- But there are many stories like that behind the scenes
- that went on.
- And the night of the vote, there was debate in the chamber.
- I am fairly new to the Senate.
- One of my jobs is presiding over the Senate when I'm in town.
- So I did that that night, and it was
- great being part of history.
- But there was a debate that went on.
- And there was one senator who was
- opposed to marriage equality.
- And what happened was he had missed an opportunity
- to make a speech.
- And when it came time to vote, he
- was only given I think two to three minutes
- to clarify his vote.
- Well, he went way over that, so he and I had a little exchange
- back and forth, and I was trying to be respectful and not
- cut him off.
- I think being in that position, it would have not
- added any decorum or professionalism
- to cut him right off, but I was trying to get to a point.
- And I had to laugh afterwards, because I think at that point,
- being a newcomer, I think I understood
- the rules of the Senate a little better,
- because he had two minutes.
- We gave him about ten, and he was finally stopped.
- But when that vote was taken, it was the--
- hard to believe, hard to even describe
- the reaction and energy in that room that night.
- And whether people have a position
- for or against marriage equality,
- and you're free to ask me any questions about my beliefs
- on this, it was one of the most incredible changes
- for this state, and to see the reactions of people.
- And I think if you're there, and see
- that those who are affected by this, what
- it means to men and women who before were denied that right,
- and when that happens, I think it
- reinforces how good this country is, how good this state is,
- because while justice maybe was not
- done in that case for a long time,
- justice was served that night.
- And it really reinforced how far our state
- has come, how far our elected officials have come,
- who before that perhaps were not willing to take that chance.
- But it was just a wonderful thing
- to see a wonderful piece of history
- that I will never forget.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Last question, and this one's
- a little abstract.
- It kind of follows on what you just said.
- You know, when future generations look back
- at us now, and the city of Rochester
- and even New York State now, with the passage
- of gay marriage, what is the greatest lesson
- that you want them to learn from what we've done,
- from what this city has done for social justice in general,
- and from what, especially in New York State,
- standing up and saying this is the right thing to do?
- ROBERT DUFFY: That's a great question.
- I think one thing I would say, the most important thing,
- people really have to have a sense of courage and conviction
- to do what's right.
- And as an elected official, you have a responsibility
- to take a position and vote on what you believe is right,
- and then most importantly, what you
- believe is right for the people that put you into office.
- And when I look at this process, I think so much of it,
- as I said before, it comes down to a very certain point.
- There are many people in elected office for years
- that did not oppose marriage equality,
- but felt if they ever were openly supportive of it,
- they would lose support of their constituencies
- and be voted out of office.
- And I think it's important to note the four senators who
- voted yes that night, the four Republican senators who
- went against their vote.
- I'll speak for one.
- Senator Roy McDonald from Saratoga County,
- he stayed that night in chamber.
- The night of the vote, his daughter
- was being married the next day.
- The rehearsal dinner was that night.
- He stayed in that chamber to vote.
- And he said he told his daughter he
- would miss her rehearsal dinner party because he
- wanted to be there and help others get married.
- They would enjoy the same things that he and his family
- would the next day, which I thought
- was just a profound statement.
- A conservative Republican senator from Saratoga County.
- He's been since voted out of office.
- He lost in a primary.
- And so it shows that sometimes those who do the right thing,
- they may suffer the consequences.
- Senator McDonald did not lose.
- Senator McDonald won.
- And Senator McDonald will be a winner for a long time to come.
- And I have a sense of faith that great things will happen to him
- for doing what he did.
- And I think for future generations,
- it's to take a step back and do what's right for people.
- And I'm a son of a former Catholic nun.
- My mother was in a convent, you know,
- for I'm assuming well over ten years.
- I was never told this, but she came out of the convent
- when World War II ended, met my father within a year,
- and got married.
- And she had left the convent, met him, got married.
- Matchmaker was my father's sister,
- who was also a Catholic nun here in Rochester.
- And I grew up in a house, and I look back
- at the way we were raised, you never criticized anybody.
- You would never make fun of someone for who they were,
- what they looked like, not the color of their skin,
- not their religion, nothing.
- You never-- it was the way we were raised.
- And it was something that I believe
- it came from my mother and her background that
- reinforced that.
- But I will tell you this, and I'll share something.
- When I was running for mayor, I initially
- did not come out and publicly take
- a position on marriage equality.
- And I'll say that.
- Why?
- I was given some advice by somebody
- that you can't vote for it anyway, so why take it on?
- I remember being-- very good friends to us
- Mark Siwiec and Duffy Palmer, during a campaign event for me,
- and I was asked a question, and I didn't
- give a very clear answer.
- And I think I disappointed some people in that room.
- And I was supportive, but I was--
- I think the language I used, and people
- wondered where I really stood in the end
- if it came down to a vote.
- And it was a lesson for me at that time,
- because I think I owed it to my friends, I owed it to my kids
- to make my position public.
- And at a point, when I was mayor,
- I wrote an op-ed piece totally clarifying my position
- on marriage equality.
- And in the US Conference of Mayors--
- I was a committee chair--
- I took a resolution to the floor with the mayors.
- It passed unanimously, for marriage equality.
- But it was a lesson for me that I hesitated at one point
- publicly to take a position, when I was first
- running for mayor, and I'm sorry that at that time
- that I did not say it was as clear.
- And you know, I rectified that.
- But I think if you were to talk to Mark Siwiec and Duffy
- Palmer, they'd remember that night.
- And we're friends.
- And I look at, in my life, the friendships
- that I've had in the gay and lesbian community
- have enriched my life, enriched the lives of my kids.
- My kids have grown up with friends,
- a wide spectrum of friends, our friends, their friends.
- As my wife has said before and I've said,
- we're a better family because of those relationships
- and friendships that we have.
- And what we have to do is take a stand
- and speak up and not be silent.
- And you can support and you can believe in something,
- but if you don't say it, if you don't say it
- in front of people, and especially
- being a public figure, if you don't get up and have
- the courage to say it, look people in the eye,
- because I think I lost some friends and supporters when
- I took that position.
- But as I look back, I would say they probably
- weren't true friends, or true supporters, at that point.
- And so I am so at peace with this.
- And I know, it was a question I believe
- I was going to be asked.
- I'm raised Roman Catholic.
- And how does that work?
- How does my position with the church's?
- I can't speak for the church's official position.
- But I've said this so many times,
- that I respect the church.
- I respect positions the church takes.
- I disagree on this, the issue of marriage equality.
- This is not a political position.
- It's a very personal one.
- It's one I believe in, I firmly believe in.
- I would not have done what I've done in this process,
- had I not had deep belief that this is the right thing to do.
- And I believe at some point in our lives,
- we're all going to be judged.
- And I'm very confident when that judgment day comes,
- that the position that I've taken I believe
- is the right one.
- And I will go to my grave believing that.
- And I think that's what I would tell people,
- is not to fear those that disagree,
- not to fear being told one thing when in your heart
- you believe something else.
- And you have to stand up for your beliefs.
- You have to encourage your kids to stand up.
- And that's how the world changes.
- If you were to go back, and as we talked
- about in the beginning of the interview,
- to the seventies or sixties or fifties and look at the climate
- that gay and lesbians dealt with back then,
- that African-Americans dealt with back
- then, the discrimination, the lack of understanding, then
- fast-forward today, it's not perfect,
- but it is like night and day.
- The transformation has changed.
- And that's because we're here, and because these issues
- have really ridden on the backs of a lot of people.
- A lot of people have suffered.
- A lot of people have suffered many indignities,
- discrimination, may have suffered
- job loss, economic loss, family loss for positions
- that they have taken.
- But those losses that they have taken
- have brought us to where we are today.
- And I think we have to respect that and thank those people,
- because sometimes governors and lieutenant governors
- and elected officials are given credit for things
- that in all honesty, we just maybe picked up
- a baton from one thousand or ten thousand people
- that carried it a long, long, long ways.
- And that baton was maybe a foot from the finish line,
- and carried it over.
- We should not be credited with all the hard work.
- I think the hard work was done by many, many people,
- many people in this community, many people across the state,
- for a long time, that deserve the credit for this change,
- because they fought for it with everything that they had.
- And it was an honor and a privilege to be a part of it.
- But again, they should be given the credit.
- I thank the governor for carrying it over the finish
- line, and those that gave so much of their heart
- for so long to bring us to this day.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm going to leave it
- at that, because I got to transcribe this.
- ROBERT DUFFY: OK, OK.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But no, thank you very much.
- ROBERT DUFFY: It's a pleasure and a privilege to be here.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: As I said to a couple of people,
- in trying to nail this interview down with you,
- I said if we didn't include you in this documentary,
- it would be an insult to people because you've always
- been very, very supportive.
- ROBERT DUFFY: Well, you know, I feel--
- I'll give you another story.
- I want, you know, the one thing that when I was a mayor,
- somebody criticized me one time for marching in a pride parade,
- saying I did it for political purposes.
- But if you look back in history, I
- marched in an awful lot of pride parades
- long before I was mayor, long before I was an elected
- official.
- Marched with my wife, marched with my family.
- I remember being at certain parts of that parade, some
- of the things that were being said by those that opposed it.
- And you know, they weren't the kind of words
- that I would want my kids to hear.
- They weren't the kind of words that I
- would want to be spoken in front of children or others.
- But you know, and that was just one small taste
- on a few days of what many men and women in this community
- have lived with for a long, long time.
- And so to have the change take place and see
- where we are today, I could not be happier with that.
- But I think we have to remember what people went through
- back in those days, up to today, all
- that they've suffered and gone through.
- And I would hope that sometimes that pain, humiliation,
- indignation that they may have felt, maybe that some of that
- was washed away seeing where this state is going
- and where this community is going.
- And I think that might be a small payment back to them,
- but I think that in some small way, what they went through
- really led us to where we are today.
- Thank you.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Thank you, sir.
- ROBERT DUFFY: My pleasure.
- Thank you very much.