Video Interview, Sue Cowell, April 11, 2012

  • CREW: Can't make anything up here.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Alright, we are rolling.
  • Let's start here.
  • SUE COWELL: Is there any glare--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: No--
  • SUE COWELL: --off my--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: --surprisingly.
  • I wanted to start initially--
  • your move to Rochester.
  • When you got here, what were you finding in regards
  • to the gay community that was here?
  • What was your first impressions?
  • SUE COWELL: I moved to Rochester in 1977
  • to take a position at the University of Rochester.
  • And I had just completed my master's in nursing,
  • and I was a nurse practitioner.
  • And I grew up on Long Island, and I
  • thought that I would have to fly to Buffalo,
  • because I didn't think Rochester would have an airport.
  • So that was my first impression.
  • That was after I was crying that my partner got a job here,
  • also.
  • But I was so shocked when they put me up
  • in the townhouse in preparation for my interview,
  • when I turned the TV on and there
  • were people from the LGBT community picketing city hall,
  • over the possibility that the Gay Alliance might not
  • get CETA funding.
  • Because the United Way was getting so many negative calls
  • about them, giving it to the Gay Alliance,
  • that they were going to back out of it.
  • And thankfully, Bill Johnson, who then became our mayor,
  • had been the head of the Urban League
  • and had the courage to just step up and say, we'll do it.
  • We'll administer the grants.
  • So I would say, more than pleasantly
  • surprised to what I found.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: And then as you started
  • to think about seeking out a gay community, your emergence that
  • happened in the gay community, talk to me about the places
  • that you would go.
  • Or, where were you finding gay people?
  • SUE COWELL: Well, because my partner had finished
  • an internship in Binghamton and I finished my internship
  • in Northern California, we had to find a place to live.
  • So we met in Rochester.
  • She got a job at Anthony Jordan Health Center,
  • and I got the one at the U of R.
  • We just drove around, and you could--
  • Park Avenue was the place then.
  • And you had the Genesee Co-op.
  • We got settled a little bit.
  • But pretty shortly into my arrival in Rochester,
  • I walked over to the Genesee Co-op,
  • and the Gay Alliance was up on the second floor.
  • And the first person to greet me was Pat Collins.
  • And Pat was one of the early presidents of the organization
  • and a real go-getter.
  • And we just talked for a while, and then she took me to lunch.
  • And then the rest of it was history.
  • She recruited me.
  • So I always give her credit for getting me
  • involved with the Gay Alliance.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, before we get too deep into the Gay
  • Alliance, I still want to get a general sense of kind
  • of the social life that you were finding here.
  • Or, did you have favorite hangouts?
  • Did you have favorite events or organizations
  • that were the gay social events that you looked to?
  • SUE COWELL: Well, I was one of the founding
  • members of the Rochester Women's Community Chorus.
  • There was somebody who was a Eastman professor.
  • I think she was a professor, or maybe--
  • I think she was getting her PhD.
  • And her and her partner moved here,
  • and they wanted to form a chorus.
  • And it was very small.
  • It was maybe like fifteen people.
  • Compared to now, it's much bigger.
  • So that gave me a good social network there.
  • And then also, just playing softball and being part of that
  • kind of fun and activity.
  • And at the time, the Gay Alliance
  • also was hosting what they called the Lesbian Resource
  • Center.
  • So that twice a month there would be gatherings of women,
  • one structured and one not so structured.
  • And I participated in that.
  • And I don't know.
  • There was just always a feeling of openness.
  • Also, the first house that I owned here
  • was an eight-bedroom home over in the Park Avenue area.
  • And so, of course, we had other women
  • from the community who were renting different apartments
  • there.
  • And so I sort of had a built-in extended family there.
  • Put it that way.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Were you surprised about--
  • I don't know how to describe it.
  • I don't want to say how large the gay community was
  • in Rochester, but how-- maybe active or visible?
  • SUE COWELL: Well, sure.
  • See, I graduated from SUNY New Paltz in 1974.
  • I didn't really come out until around 1974, 1975.
  • And it was just a small college town, and just not
  • a lot happening.
  • And then I was in Pleasantville--
  • Westchester for two years for graduate school.
  • And that was like impossible to really find
  • any kind of community.
  • But at least in SUNY New Paltz, there
  • was sort of a women's community.
  • But ironically, because I had Joni Mitchell hair,
  • they didn't think that I could be gay.
  • So it was sort of like, OK, well, what do you say?
  • So I just rolled with it.
  • And then when I went to graduate school--
  • and through all the trainings and whatever,
  • I finally came to Rochester.
  • So for me, I mean, it was beyond wonderful.
  • It was just--
  • I always say, youth wasn't wasted on me.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
  • Before we get into the Gay Alliance,
  • I want to hear about your involvement
  • at the U of R Student Affairs and Sexuality Services.
  • Can you talk to me a little bit about that more
  • and what you were doing there?
  • SUE COWELL: Sure.
  • Well, at the time, the concept of nurse practitioner
  • was just emerging.
  • And there's actually-- Loretta Ford,
  • the dean of the School of Nursing
  • here at the University of Rochester,
  • was one of the two founders of the whole movement, which
  • was to give nurses more responsibility besides just
  • changing bedpans.
  • And that we actually may be able to think for ourselves
  • and help patients.
  • So I always liked working in a university environment,
  • so the job was ideal for me.
  • But I also-- my undergraduate degree was in psychology.
  • And at the time, it was all about behavior modification,
  • and it wasn't the part of psychology I was interested.
  • I was interested in people--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Hold that thought. (pause)
  • I hope he wins.
  • CREW: And there will always be noise.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, let's pick it up from your interest
  • and role in psychology.
  • SUE COWELL: Yeah.
  • For me, the interesting part of health care
  • was really understanding the whole person.
  • And at that time, it was the early emergence of concept
  • called health education.
  • That maybe it's not just go in and the doctor
  • gives you a prescription.
  • And you don't even know why you're taking it,
  • or what you have, or how you can have some ownership
  • on improving your own health.
  • So my job--
  • I was a nurse practitioner.
  • But I had clinical-- seeing patients,
  • but I always had programmatic.
  • So I was in charge of the Student Advisory Committee,
  • developed the first position for a coordinator of health
  • education.
  • That was me-- held some health and management positions.
  • And I just think that it was just a really great opportunity
  • for me, and they were always very supportive.
  • I had a partner at the time.
  • And they were very--
  • everyone was very open, and I never really had a problem.
  • And I did come out.
  • As things progressed, we had a journal club
  • where we started to read about high rates of sexually
  • transmitted diseases in gay men, and it
  • was just the very early inkling of what was
  • going to sort of just explode.
  • And Bill Valenti also worked there at the time.
  • A couple of half sessions.
  • And as the awareness kept growing,
  • Bill talked to other people in the infectious disease unit,
  • and they wanted to establish a screening clinic there.
  • Because there was really no test,
  • but you could test the immune system by testing T-cells.
  • But they wanted somebody there that
  • would provide sort of evidence or proof
  • that gay men weren't just going to be tested on,
  • that there was some level of confidentiality,
  • and that it was for a good purpose.
  • So the University Health Service allowed us to set up
  • a screening clinic there.
  • They also allowed us to be one of the first places that
  • provided on a fee-for-service basis to people outside
  • of the university setting--
  • the hepatitis B vaccine.
  • And for me, ironically, coming out only
  • enhanced my career there.
  • And that was because of the people who I worked with.
  • As other things started to develop in town--
  • well, this goes back a little bit
  • before the HIV part of things.
  • But there was a rally for rights that
  • was being organized when Anita Bryant was coming
  • through Rochester on her--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, let's hold on to that thought
  • for a moment.
  • SUE COWELL: Sure.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Because I want to continue with the thread
  • that you were on--
  • SUE COWELL: Sure.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: --which I was going to come to later.
  • But being that we already need to,
  • we'll come back to that other stuff.
  • Let's continue on with the thread with the emergence
  • of HIV again, and your experience at the U of R,
  • and how that kind of not only helped you, but almost kind of
  • prompted you to become really actively involved in diagnosis,
  • treatment, awareness.
  • SUE COWELL: Well, again, I just worked with really great people
  • there.
  • And they allowed me to be involved
  • with community activities, beyond just the university
  • setting.
  • And when we found our first person
  • who had HIV, which, of course, wasn't called that at the time,
  • it was somebody who had moved back to Rochester--
  • had lived in New York-- was seeing all their friends die
  • and came back to be with family.
  • Unfortunately, his family was not 100 percent supportive.
  • And it became clear very quickly that there's
  • going to have to be another support system
  • outside of the medical establishment to help people.
  • And we started to raise money for the infectious disease
  • unit.
  • We did a fundraiser at Friar's.
  • And along-- at a certain point, it
  • just kind of clicked that it's great to have
  • community activism.
  • But where is our health dollars?
  • Where's our tax dollars?
  • This isn't a burden just on our community.
  • Our community was maybe the first slice of it
  • that rose to the surface, but it was much deeper than that.
  • And it took years and years for even people
  • to be able to understand or acknowledge
  • that it affected women.
  • And so part of that--
  • it just politicized me, even more than I had been,
  • that we have to make the system work.
  • Because we will never have the resources,
  • that we can marshal the same as having a legitimate government
  • support, who then influence the health
  • care practices of the entire state and country.
  • So we established the New York State Health Department,
  • along with people from the infectious disease unit.
  • And other folks established the Rochester Area Task Force
  • on AIDS.
  • So from the very early beginning,
  • we operated as a community.
  • And I think that's what made it so powerful, because you had
  • infectious disease experts, working with members
  • of the community, working with the non-infectious disease unit
  • part of the U of R. And it just was very powerful.
  • I mean, we did the first--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, I got to pull you back a little bit,
  • because I don't want to rush through this.
  • SUE COWELL: Sure.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to break it down a little bit.
  • SUE COWELL: Sure.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So first, let's break it
  • down for me a little bit about your work involvement
  • with Bill Valenti, because he's a very big part of this.
  • Talk to me about the two of you coming together and realizing
  • that there's a greater need here,
  • other than just care or treatment.
  • SUE COWELL: Well, I mean, there's
  • all different types of people.
  • And Bill sort of had--
  • could see the vision and could see what the information was,
  • coming down from other sources statewide and internationally.
  • And I don't think that he actually
  • approached the infectious disease folks,
  • but they had come up with this idea of trying
  • to do some local screening.
  • And so on a Friday afternoon when
  • Tom Rush from the infectious disease unit
  • showed up at the University Health Service to talk to me,
  • we talked, and it made sense.
  • And I said, "Of course, I'd be willing to do that."
  • And we just-- no drama, no headaches,
  • just kind of set it up, and got going.
  • And Tom Rush was also--
  • he was very instrumental in really keeping the university
  • infectious disease unit really on track
  • and trying to make really positive contributions.
  • And we just had a very good working relationship.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: To pull you back even a little bit more here,
  • again to the beginnings when you started hearing or reading
  • about this new infectious virus rearing its ugly head,
  • what did you start seeing that was happening in the community
  • and happening to people in the community?
  • Describe for me what you were seeing that made you realize,
  • oh, my God, this is going to be a detriment to our community.
  • SUE COWELL: Well, I mean, before you could see it,
  • I still knew it.
  • Because anything that's blood-borne is
  • going to be potentially contagious to other people.
  • And it just made sense that even though we
  • didn't know everything, we knew some things.
  • And even the opposition early on to HIV testing--
  • there were campaigns that the test was worse
  • than the disease.
  • Our community-- it was all wrapped
  • around wanting to have confidentiality protection
  • under the law, which I understood.
  • But on the other hand, I'd rather give people a choice.
  • Don't just say, don't get tested.
  • Because it did mean something.
  • It meant that you were infected, and it
  • meant that you can give it to somebody else.
  • And at the time, there was a little bit of a movement.
  • This was just right before this all broke open,
  • where there was going to be--
  • some people wanted to do a blood drive
  • as a "community," because that would show
  • that we were good citizens.
  • And I just said, no way we're doing that,
  • and I took flak for it.
  • And we did a feminist blood drive.
  • And the film that showed at the Little, well,
  • all that happened here, too, of women really coming together.
  • I mean, the first straight ally I
  • had at the University of Rochester
  • was a nurse from the cancer center.
  • So her and I would go out and do these different presentations.
  • So I think I always had one foot in the community,
  • but I had one foot in the professional world.
  • And I was never willing to sacrifice
  • what I believed the reality to be for-- well, we don't want
  • to disparage our community.
  • Because it wasn't about our "community."
  • It was about behaviors.
  • So I don't know.
  • I just did what I thought was best.
  • And you have to just live by your decisions.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, talk to me about the RATFA, Rochester Area
  • Task Force on AIDS.
  • What was it?
  • How did it come about?
  • What was its mission?
  • SUE COWELL: I'm sorry.
  • Can I backtrack for a second?
  • I mean, one other thing that was important
  • was that we did hold the system accountable.
  • Because when the Red Cross decided
  • to tell all gay men that they couldn't donate--
  • Tim Sally, who was very involved with Dignity-Integrity,
  • and myself approached the Red Cross to say,
  • "If you're going to do this, then
  • you have a responsibility to educate the community why,
  • not just say, well, you're banned from giving."
  • And so we got them to pay for the first wallet-sized card.
  • And you know what number was on there?
  • The Gay Alliance, 244-8640.
  • And so I think early on, people also
  • had a place to call to get more information.
  • So I think through just a variety of different things,
  • there was awareness growing in the community.
  • But again, it's not to say that people always
  • liked what I had to say, or the idea of a gay cancer.
  • And their behavior-- well, that's ridiculous.
  • Well, you know what?
  • It's not that it's a gay cancer, but it did affect gay men.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So yeah, let's talk about RATFA.
  • How did that come about?
  • SUE COWELL: Well, I think because--
  • basically, John Altieri was at the state health department.
  • I was at the U of R, and Bill was in the part
  • of the infectious disease unit.
  • And we just realized that if we are scrambling after sort
  • of identifying our first person with HIV and AIDS,
  • it's only going to get worse.
  • And then there were also--
  • there was somebody-- a Haitian man that just with--
  • just died very quickly.
  • So I think that for whatever reason,
  • we were kind of all connected.
  • And although at that time, John Altieri was at the state health
  • department, I was at the U of R, we later
  • worked together, also when I went to the county,
  • because there was overlap.
  • So I think the right people just happened to be at the table
  • and could see that--
  • they could sort of see where this
  • was going to go if there wasn't really aggressive intervention
  • to try to organize the resources.
  • So John, and Bill, and myself hired the first executive
  • director for AIDS Rochester at the time.
  • And we had very few applicants, because people didn't even
  • really know what the heck we were talking about.
  • But then it allowed us to submit a grant.
  • The thing our state health department
  • issued-- a request for proposals.
  • So we put the first grant together
  • to get the first health educator for AIDS Rochester.
  • So it was just a little bit of serendipity
  • and a little bit of divine intervention, I guess.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, let's take that back a little bit,
  • because I want to get into the development of AIDS Rochester.
  • Because we want to understand, a lot of that initial planning
  • was on your porch.
  • Talk to me about that.
  • Talk to me about sitting on your front porch
  • and talking about the greater need.
  • SUE COWELL: Right.
  • Well, there were people there like Mark Allenwood, Randy.
  • I can't remember Randy's last name.
  • But Mark Allenwood, Randy, Don Scalia,
  • who is a psychologist at the U of R, Valenti.
  • I can't remember, but those were most of the--
  • I'll have to ask Bill that question, too, if he remembers
  • who else was there.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Start it out for me, though.
  • I mean, set it up for me that some of the initial meetings
  • started on my porch, OK?
  • SUE COWELL: Right.
  • Some of the initial meetings, that
  • was kind of focused on organizing
  • our local effort to a much higher degree,
  • started on my porch.
  • And it was really pulling together
  • people who I've already--
  • had started to work with.
  • Bill Valenti had worked at the University of Rochester.
  • John Altieri-- I knew from the state health department.
  • Because he had came in to the River Campus infirmary, which
  • I was the manager of, because we had a food-borne outbreak.
  • And I don't know.
  • We just hit it off, and it was like we ended up
  • becoming friends.
  • So all those relationships are sort of preexisting,
  • which really helped.
  • And that's why I say it was kind of divine intervention
  • that the right people came together.
  • And John, being at the state health department,
  • was the logical person to really take leadership
  • around the formation of the Rochester Area Task Force.
  • Because it was sort of in that level of government
  • that it had to be organized.
  • And then we've reached out to other community-based
  • organizations--
  • settlement houses, churches, community health
  • centers, and tried to get broad representation.
  • So that when recommendations were developed,
  • you would have input from all segments of the community.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to continue on with that thread
  • again, recognizing the need to form
  • some sort of central organization aid to Rochester.
  • But can you kind of expand on that a little bit, about some
  • of the challenges that you were faced with in doing that?
  • And politically, socially, economically, how
  • did you overcome some of those challenges?
  • SUE COWELL: In those early days, there
  • wasn't any funding that was coming from the government.
  • And one of the ways that we kind of overcame that
  • was just not completely bypassing state government,
  • but we didn't wait for them to pull it all together.
  • And in the early days of AIDS Rochester
  • in one of those early meetings, they
  • were having an international conference on AIDS.
  • And there was an AIDS Atlanta that was formed.
  • And it was like, OK, well, AIDS Rochester.
  • That sounds good.
  • What's next on the agenda?
  • type of thing.
  • And it was all volunteers.
  • We didn't have any paid staff for quite a while.
  • We got office space--
  • and in Tara's-- where Tara's used to be.
  • We got office space where the Forum
  • was over there off of Goodman.
  • And we just kind of made do.
  • And then the Gay Alliance was kind of the initial--
  • well, it was the initial phone number
  • for people to get in contact with AIDS Rochester.
  • So we just kind of begged, borrowed, and stole.
  • Whatever you had to do.
  • And some of the fundraisers.
  • And then the more awareness.
  • As that grew, then organizations helping people with AIDS
  • emerged, and they tapped into a much broader community.
  • So it wasn't just the LGBT community
  • was responsible for raising all this extra money to help
  • people's needs.
  • But it really did become a community-wide response.
  • So even though you had sort of the medical health care
  • establishment organizing as a partnership,
  • I think the broader community also
  • became part of that, but particularly
  • through helping people with AIDS.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to just stay with this
  • just for another moment.
  • We're in the crust of it.
  • There was a time where once a week you were hearing
  • someone that was dying of it.
  • What was going on with you emotionally or professionally
  • during that time?
  • But more importantly, what was it
  • that you knew for yourself, that what
  • you were doing at that point, whether it was with the Gay
  • Alliance, or whether it was with AIDS
  • Rochester, or any other organization
  • that you were really making a difference, that you
  • were really doing what you needed to be doing?
  • SUE COWELL: Well, somebody needed to do it,
  • and I happened to be in a really perfect position to do it.
  • Because I had the support of the university.
  • I had the health care credentials.
  • I had already been at that point,
  • writing about increased sexually transmitted diseases
  • in the gay community.
  • And if it wasn't me, there was nobody else that I saw,
  • other than Bill Valenti and John Altieri.
  • And it was just something that just needed to happen.
  • And like I say, I was just fortunate
  • that the right people were there at the right time
  • and understood--
  • could see the bigger, broader impact.
  • And it's not that it was easy for the gay community
  • to really come to terms with that,
  • because even people within the health department
  • didn't come to terms with it.
  • The state was more advanced than the county health
  • department was at the time.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: That was kind of going
  • to be-- my next question is, through all of this,
  • what was the most toughest?
  • What was the most frustrating?
  • SUE COWELL: I don't think that there was any one thing.
  • I think at the height of it, when
  • we were having so many deaths and it was expanding,
  • I don't think it really was expanding into IV drug use.
  • I think it would just be the fact that if you
  • were somebody who was addicted to heroin
  • and died in a doorway--
  • probably not going to get the same kind of cause of death,
  • or even asking questions as you would in other populations.
  • So I just always had one foot in the community and one foot
  • in the world of professionals.
  • And so I was a good link for that.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: OK, so let's get off that track for a while.
  • Let's backtrack-- 1978, president of the Gay Alliance.
  • Talk to me about that.
  • You'd only been in Rochester-- not that long, right?
  • SUE COWELL: Right.
  • Yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Talk to me about that experience.
  • SUE COWELL: We'll check the dates with Evelyn later.
  • Well, again, Pat Collins just got me involved very quickly,
  • and I enjoyed being part of the community.
  • Like I said, the Lesbian Resource Center--
  • get to play softball--
  • have all sorts of fun.
  • And so to me, it wasn't really work.
  • And I always say, I was too young to even realize
  • what I was committing to.
  • I was just doing it because it was fun,
  • not in like just drinking kind of fun,
  • but just-- it was enjoyable to me to be around people.
  • It's another form of creativity that--
  • I just really enjoyed it.
  • And that type of energy feeds on itself,
  • and then you kind of gather with other like-minded souls who
  • sort of get the bigger picture.
  • And it's like having a fancy house.
  • And being well-to-do is nice for some,
  • but that's not fulfilling for me.
  • I want to be involved in making a difference.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Just a little--
  • the same question.
  • When you stepped into the position of president
  • of the Gay Alliance, what were your initial challenges?
  • What was the initial mission of the organization at that time?
  • What were you hoping to achieve?
  • SUE COWELL: Well, I mean, I think
  • the initial mission of the organization is very--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Again, I need you to set it up for me.
  • Something like, when I was elected president of the Gay
  • Alliance or something.
  • Yeah.
  • SUE COWELL: --yeah.
  • When I became the president of the Gay Alliance,
  • it was just a little bit before we
  • had a real emergence of knowledge around HIV and AIDS,
  • but it was percolating under the surface.
  • And I think that some of the work that I did, in terms
  • of writing about the emerging sexually
  • transmitted diseases within the gay male population,
  • definitely rubbed some people the wrong way,
  • because they didn't really quite believe it or understand it.
  • And we still-- although we had the Gay Alliance,
  • we had the picnic, and we had some different things that
  • happened, we didn't have as much of a public integration
  • into the broader community.
  • And for me, that happened when Bill Benet,
  • who was my neighbor, got me involved
  • with Democratic politics.
  • And so that just added another whole piece to it.
  • Because not only did I have the interest and that knowledge,
  • but now, I had a vehicle to really influence
  • those public policy decisions that get made for you.
  • And they get made with or without your input.
  • So I wanted to offer it with input.
  • And so I didn't really have that--
  • they had a pushback from people.
  • But it's always a process.
  • I mean, it was like--
  • in a way, the whole thing was unbelievable
  • that it was even happening.
  • So I think everyone was--
  • I don't want to say shell-shocked,
  • but I think people were just doing the best they could.
  • I mean, my philosophy is that most people do the best
  • they can on any given day.
  • And what's there to judge?
  • Just do the best that you can.
  • But the Gay Alliance continued to grow.
  • And I think, definitely, while the emergence of AIDS
  • was very devastating, it did really
  • create opportunities for men and women to work together.
  • And I think that if you talk to people from other communities,
  • once they've sort of seen Rochester
  • and they've been here for a little bit,
  • they see that overall, we've done pretty well for ourselves.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: And I'll just throw you
  • some quick topics here.
  • There was a rally for rights.
  • What was that?
  • SUE COWELL: Well, Anita Bryant was coming to town
  • on her big campaign against homosexuality,
  • and morality, and all this sort of stuff.
  • And we thought that we should have a response to it.
  • And this is where Bill Benet, again,
  • played a big, big role in this.
  • Because I wanted to do a rally for human rights,
  • not a rally for gay rights.
  • And we're not just for gay rights.
  • I wanted it to be broader.
  • And I took a little flak from some
  • of the hardcore feminists and some other people about that.
  • But I broadened it.
  • I mean, it doesn't always have to be gay people speaking
  • on gay rights.
  • And in fact, that's why I think we have made progress,
  • because we have a tremendous number of straight allies.
  • And so Bill Benet spoke.
  • We had-- the poet Kate Millett spoke.
  • Who else did we have?
  • Karen DeCrow, who had been the president of NOW who
  • was a lesbian, but she didn't know it at the time.
  • So we just had a variety of different people.
  • And we had musicians speaking, and poets, and just
  • made it a really big event.
  • I mean, there was over one thousand people
  • at Genesee Crossroads Park in 1979.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Community reaction to it?
  • SUE COWELL: Well, I think from our community
  • it had a lasting impact.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Watch your microphone.
  • SUE COWELL: Oh, sorry.
  • From our community, I think it impacted a lot of people.
  • There was a long time-- people would just come and say,
  • "I was there."
  • And that it was really a turning point
  • for them to realize that they could
  • be out and proud in the middle of the day
  • on a weekend in downtown, and the world didn't fall apart.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: In all of the activism
  • here, whether it was the rally to rights,
  • or your involvement with the Gay Alliance, or the work
  • that you started developing for the whole HIV/AIDS pandemic,
  • any concern for your job?
  • Anything?
  • SUE COWELL: Well, no.
  • Because my job at the U of R--
  • I mean, they really were tremendous to me.
  • And I think because of my age, I brought a perspective that
  • was probably valuable to them.
  • And then when I was at the University of Rochester,
  • and they allowed me to be involved
  • with planning around the AIDS task force,
  • is when I met Mark Merkens, who is
  • the deputy director at the county health department.
  • And the counties were always more direct service as opposed
  • to the state, which has more oversight of medical care,
  • and regulations, and funding.
  • And as we continued to work together,
  • then there was going to be a position opening at the county
  • health department.
  • And it would be called the AIDS coordinator.
  • And so he asked if I was interested.
  • And I said yes, and I applied, and went through civil service,
  • and all the various hoops.
  • And so I ended up there at the county.
  • And for me, it worked out well.
  • Because when I was at the University Health Service,
  • I felt like I had gone as far as I could.
  • I started several programs, and they were going to continue.
  • We started the whole health education series of brochures,
  • and just changing the way that we would do patient intakes
  • and interviews, to ask questions about unwanted sexual activity,
  • or just different things, where it kind of made
  • a difference in the health care that people were getting.
  • So for me, that was a really good time horizon.
  • And I could see that it would give me
  • a bigger platform and a little bit more influence.
  • Because, actually, Jackie Nudd, who
  • was hired as the first director of AIDS Rochester, NY,
  • went and spoke to the county, and it was around HIV testing.
  • And they weren't going to start doing the testing,
  • even though it was available, because they
  • were like in a little tiff with the state.
  • I'll just leave it at that.
  • And so I knew that there was work to do,
  • and so it was a challenge.
  • And I liked Mark.
  • We got along well.
  • And it just seemed like it was just meant to be.
  • It was like a natural evolution.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Can I ask you about Jackie Nudd?
  • SUE COWELL: Um-hm.