Video Interview, Whitey LeBlanc, April 11, 2012

KEVIN INDOVINO: If you're talking

and you lose your train of thought,

just say, "You know what, I can say that better.

Let me start again."

WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah.

UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What did he have for breakfast?

KEVIN INDOVINO: What did you have for breakfast?

WHITEY LEBLANC: I had cereal and fruit, and coffee, and toast.

KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.

We are rolling.

So I want to start in the early years.

I want to get a sense, Whitey, from you,

of what the gay community in Rochester

was like in the 1960s and 1970s.

Where did you meet people?

Where were the kind of things that you were dealing with?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, back in the sixties and early sixties

in Rochester, the gay community was--

well, the meeting places was obviously the bars.

I mean, there was no other place to get with other gay people,

and to meet people, socialize.

It's unfortunate, but that's where it was.

There were, in Rochester, when I arrived in about '64,

there were probably about five or six gay bars.

And by the early seventies, there

were about seven or eight I guess.

Some were better than others.

But that was it.

That was where you did it.

You met other people.

You may have even met your partner in a bar.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Talk to me about life in general

as a gay person in Rochester.

Did you have to lead a double life?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, at that time, yes,

I was leading a double life.

I was certainly not, when I arrived in Rochester,

I was certainly not out in the community.

I was out among other gay friends, of course.

But the job I had with the Boy Scouts of America was--

you didn't say a word.

And everything worked out fine.

I was with them for nine years, and I left in good standing.

I came to Rochester through the Boy Scouts there.

I directed camps and so forth.

And I even had a lover.

I had a live-in lover at the time, but that was no problem.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Can you talk to me, going back

to the bar scene, and that's the place

that you met people, the places that you socialized.

Back in that day, there was kind of this rule or law that says,

same sex people can't touch when they dance.

Talk to me about some of the things

that you were up against, even though you were out

at these gay bars, there were still things you couldn't do.

WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah.

Well, as far as your behavior in a gay bar, dancing,

for instance, I moved here from New York City,

and I didn't know a single bar in New York City where there

was steady dancing going on.

Until I got to Rochester and moved in Rochester

and found that there was a--

the first bar I went into was Dick's 43.

No longer around.

But Dick's 43 had dancing on a steady basis, on the weekends.

But it was not--

let's put it this way.

Every now and then there was no touching.

Every now and then you could dance, but no touching.

Or every now and then, there was no dancing at all,

because it may be that police were coming in,

or she expected police to come in.

So it was, you just couldn't depend on it.

But generally speaking, there was

dancing going on at Dick's 43.

That's the only place that had dancing up until,

that I know about, up until when Jim's bar opened up

on North Street.

And that was later.

That was like, in what, '73 or something like that, '74.

There was a big back room there for dancing,

and there was no restrictions in any way.

It was a gay owned, and he wasn't paying

for any kind of protection.

He didn't have to worry about that sort of thing.

We did get raided, however, a few times.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, we'll get to that in a moment.

But there's one thing you touched upon that I want to get

your opinion on is, over at Dick's 43 three was a women

named Martha, a part-owner of Dick's.

Tell me who Martha was, and what was she like?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, I didn't know Martha that well,

but there were some people, some of the older people there,

just knew her for ages and loved her and all that.

But I did not have that feeling.

As a matter of fact, when we were

trying to distribute the Empty Closet, which we eventually

began to put out every month, at the beginning of the month,

hers was the only bar that we could not

distribute the Empty Closet in.

We couldn't even put a pile on the cigarette machine,

as we did in other bars.

"I don't believe in that," she said.

"I don't believe in that."

Well, and I went in there and asked her several times

to do this.

"I don't believe in it."

What she didn't believe in, I don't know, but that was it.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to explore this a little bit more,

and try to get the kind of person she was, because she was

obviously running a gay bar.

WHITEY LEBLANC: Amen.

KEVIN INDOVINO: And taking gay money.

WHITEY LEBLANC: Right.

KEVIN INDOVINO: But why did the gay community then

support her is she also had these other attitudes?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, that was the only place you

could dance for a long time.

And that was it.

That was the place.

I think, see, her attitude was not

unlike the attitude of other aspects of our living.

And we were sort of used to that sort of thing.

And I think you just let that wash over you,

that kind of behavior.

My big run in with her was about running the Empty Closet.

I'll never forget that.

I'll never forget her response to that.

"I don't believe in that."

KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, I have a note here from you.

And actually in 1971, you witnessed a raid on Jim's bar.

WHITEY LEBLANC: Yes.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Tell me what happened.

WHITEY LEBLANC: Speaking of raids, I was in Jim's bar

one night.

It was a weekday evening.

I happened to be standing just outside the back room, which

is where the dancing took place, in a back room.

There was a disc jockey booth there,

and there was a dance floor, and the place was hopping.

And I was standing just outside that door in the main room,

and I noticed, as I was facing the front of the building,

that there's this big picture window there,

and I noticed a whole parade of uniformed police walking

by that going toward the door.

And I also saw them coming in the main door of the bar.

And right away, I went into the--

I knew this was a raid.

Right away, I went into the dance room

and notified Pat, who was the disk jockey there

for many years, and told him that we're being raided.

And he stopped the music immediately.

And the police did come in, and they rounded everybody up,

and told everybody to leave.

Except that they pointed at me, and said, "Not you.

You stay here."

And I have to stand next to a policeman

while everybody else was filing out of the bar.

And I kept asking, "Why am I being held?"

And why I was being held was that there

was a plainclothes policemen in the bar all the time,

and he thought I was a wise-ass for notifying

the disk jockey I guess.

They let me go.

I didn't get charged or anything.

I later found out that Jim Van Allen,

who was the owner of that bar, was cited for the lighting was

too low in the bar.

They couldn't get him on dancing.

There was no law against dancing, you see, I guess.

So they got him on minor items.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, previous to 1971,

I got a note here about something

that you talked about Stonewall.

You weren't down in New York for the Stonewall riots, were you?

WHITEY LEBLANC: No, no.

KEVIN INDOVINO: But you were up here in Rochester by then?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Yes.

Well, in 1969 I was in Rochester,

but I was not involved in the movement at that point.

I was seeing it on TV and we were

saying to ourselves, "Holy mackerel, what's going on?"

We couldn't believe what was going on.

This was wonderful to see.

And it didn't occur to us that it would

reach Rochester in any way.

This is something you did in New York City.

But later, of course, we found out,

I found out, having been given a flyer in the bar.

One night, in 1970, I was in a bar,

and Larry Fine, one of the guys out from University

of Rochester, handed me a flyer inviting us to meetings out

at Todd Union at the University of Rochester

where the Gay Liberation Front was holding meetings.

Of course, this was as a result of the Stonewall riots

that probably across the country,

campuses, college campuses, were forming

gay organizations being inspired by the Stonewall riots.

And so I attended a meeting on a Sunday night

at Town Union, the very following Sunday night,

and I got hooked.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to talk about your decision

to go into that first meeting.

WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: What was it that prompted you?

Or what was it that generated a spark in you that's saying,

oh, this is something I should go check out.

WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, no particular incident

at that point caused me to go to that meeting.

I went to that meeting out of curiosity.

I had no idea who was going to be there, what was going on.

I had no idea what their goal was or anything.

I just went to the meeting because I was invited to it.

Once I got there, I was really impressed

by the leadership that was going on there,

the kind of discussion that was taking place, of course.

There was probably about twenty or thirty people

sitting around the room, and old Walt Delaney,

who became a lifelong friend of mine, was leading a discussion.

I forget it was-- it's probably something like,

how to come out with your parents, or coming out at work.

Those were the kinds of discussions that were

taking place at these meetings.

Consciousness raising, they called them.

And so I was very impressed with what was going on.

And so I was at every single Sunday night meeting

from then on, and eventually got involved in the operation.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, I want to touch upon a little bit about

once you went to that meeting and found out

what it's all about, again, what was that first impression

that stayed with you?

Yeah, this is definitely something

that I want to be involved with.

What was it that was going on at those meetings?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, what was going on

is, I had never heard people talk seriously

about the gay situation and how it relates to your whole life.

Most of the time, when we got together socially,

it was all frivolous activities.

We were dancing or we were going to bars,

and this was strictly socializing.

This is the first time that I'd ever

been involved in any kind of a discussion about my life,

and how being gay affects it, and how

being gay in a straight community affects everything.

So this was, for me, it was a whole revolutionary idea.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Once you get involved, what did you do?

What was your main mission?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, for months I was just

helping out and making the coffee, or whatever.

After a while, I got involved in some of this activities

that we were participating in.

For instance, your recalled that we talked about this gay bar

raiding that took place at Jim's.

Well, the very following Sunday night

when I got to that meeting, I, of course,

told about my experience there.

And we decided we were going to do something about that.

And so this was the very first gay action

that I'd participated in.

We decided to have a dance-in at a straight restaurant

where there would be nothing but straight people there.

We went to the top of the Plaza prearranged at a certain time.

Seven couples, fourteen people, boy and girl.

The lesbian group participated in this as well.

And we all went as couples at an assigned time.

We walked into the top of the Plaza at about, let's say,

ten-thirty, eleven o'clock.

I went there early to sort of scope

out the situation to see if by any means they may expect us,

or whatever.

And so I sat at the bar drinking,

and I did notice that there was some discussion

about something's going to happen.

Anyway, our people arrived.

We sat around having drinks in separate locations.

And at a signal, we all started dancing.

And I don't know whether we were disappointed or not,

but nothing happened.

In other words, there was no real reaction.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Let's take it back a little bit

from the point of signal.

Make it clear to us that you started

dancing as same sex couples.

WHITEY LEBLANC: Oh, yeah.

That's right.

Yeah, we got to go back on that.

At first, we were dancing mixed boy-girl couples, and then

all of a sudden, at a signal, we arranged

to dance same sex couples.

And that's where we--

I just don't recall any kind of a reaction that

would be negative.

People were probably biting their lip over the situation.

As a matter of fact, we were invited to join in--

at that time very popular was, what

do you call it that Jewish dance, the Hora?

Yeah.

It's called-- they dance in a circle.

We were invited to join, specifically invited

to join in on that.

So we felt welcome.

I'm sure the owner was not terribly pleased.

And nothing was done.

We decided to leave.

And we filed out at a signal, and there was no real reaction.

We had hoped the press would show up.

I believe that we, and I don't remember this specifically,

but I think we did notify the press that this

was going to take place.

But we didn't see any indication of that,

nor was there anything in the papers the following day.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So let me ask you, was it worth it?

WHITEY LEBLANC: It was worth it from several standpoints.

Number one, from our own standpoint.

It felt good doing it.

Because we got no publicity on it, that was probably,

from a public standpoint, it was probably a waste of time.

It didn't have any effect.

But we felt good about doing it, and that's all I can say.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to move back a little bit to the Gay

Liberation Front, and when you were

asked to move off of campus.

WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah.

At one point, the University of Rochester Student Activities

Committee, or whatever it's called-- the Student Council,

that's what it was.

See, the Student Council sponsored GLF.

They provided an office.

They provided a meeting place, a telephone,

just like any other organization on campus.

It became obvious after a few years

that overwhelmingly most of the people

sitting there in those meetings were

non-students from the city.

We began to feel, too, that maybe we belong in the city.

But the student activities people

did suggest to us that because it was mostly non-students,

that we might be better to move off campus.

We weren't really thrown out, but it was suggested.

And we felt the same way.

And therefore, we moved off campus.

We had trouble finding a location.

It needed to be free.

So one of the people, a businessman man who

was attending our meetings, Mark Hall,

offered us space in the Bull's Head area.

I think it was an empty--

the back of a drugstore.

Or I think it was also a dentist office partly.

There was several areas there that were available to us.

Not heated.

There was electricity, thank goodness.

The entrance was in the back of the building.

It was hostile territory, because we

did get rocks thrown into the windows,

and so forth, after we were there for a while.

We were meeting there with electric heaters on the floor.

But it was all we had, and we needed it.

During that time, the women were meeting at the Genesee Co-op.

They had rented space there on Monroe Avenue.

And after a while, the lesbian group

started to invite us to share space with them.

And we took them up on it.

But before that happened, of course,

we formed the Gay Alliance there.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Before we jump ahead a little bit,

I want to talk a little bit more about Brown Street.

WHITEY LEBLANC: Yes.

KEVIN INDOVINO: The next group at Brown Street.

WHITEY LEBLANC: OK.

Yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Can you describe for me the--

you started describing a little bit,

and I want you to describe for me a little bit more,

the environment or the atmosphere of these meetings,

the camaraderie.

WHITEY LEBLANC: Oh, yeah.

KEVIN INDOVINO: What was it like?

What were you guys talking about around the table,

that kind of thing?

WHITEY LEBLANC: This was strictly, by the way,

strictly a men's group on Brown Street.

This was a men's group.

There were some women who were still coming to it,

but very few, because the women had split off when

we were at GLF on Todd union.

They split off and they were having their own meetings

at the Co-op.

So this was largely a men's group.

We took the same format that we were

doing at Todd Union at the University.

We formed a Speakers Bureau.

As a matter of fact, the whole operation moved.

The Speakers Bureau, the Empty Closet, the library, everything

moved.

And we carried on the same operations we were having.

Every evening we had somebody by the phones

ready to take in calls, if anybody

wanted to discuss anything.

We called it our hotline.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, let's back up on that a little bit.

Talk to me about the hotline.

Tell me, obviously, what it was, and how it was being run.

WHITEY LEBLANC: The hotline was our people signed up

on a schedule to be on duty each evening,

it'd be a different person.

And we had a little training program

for the people who were going to be on the hotline that night.

And people would call in.

We had ads in the Empty Closet, notices in the Empty Closet,

that there was a hotline available.

This is the same kind of operation

that was going on at the Todd Union,

University of Rochester, same hotline.

So people would call in for information

about the organization, or they would

call in just wanted to talk to somebody that

was gay about their situation.

And so it was on the phone, it could turn out

to be an on the phone counseling session.

We also did have counseling available at the office

for people who wanted to actually come in and talk

to somebody.

We had, of course, the Speakers Bureau,

and they went out on speaking engagements

at various schools, colleges, organizations.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Did you get a lot of calls?

Were calls coming in regularly, and did that surprise you?

WHITEY LEBLANC: The times that I served,

I can't give you any numbers on that,

but the times that I served, you might get a couple of calls

a night, really.

But sometimes the call that you got,

you were darn glad you were there.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Good.

So you guys eventually moved over to the Co-op

and joined with the women, essentially the development

of the GAGV, right?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, GAGV was developed before we moved.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Who developed it?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Alright, here.

While we were at- after we moved,

very soon after we moved, I was elected

President of the organization.

We called ourselves the Gay Alliance of the Genesee Valley.

We appointed Tim Mains to draw up a constitution and bylaws,

a committee headed by Tim Mains, to draw

a constitution and bylaws.

And our objective there, our goal, really,

was to form an umbrella organization.

And after that would get organized and put together,

we then called the men's group the Gay Brotherhood

of Rochester.

So we right away separated ourselves

as the Gay Brotherhood of Rochester, GBR.

And when the women got involved, they were the Lesbian Resource

Center.

By the time we got through organizing that, the bylaws

and all that, we were invited to join them at the Genesee Co-op.

So that the organization, by the time

we got to the Genesee Co-op, it was already formed.

And we turned over the library--

whoops.

KEVIN INDOVINO: It's OK, just take it back.

WHITEY LEBLANC: We turned over the library, the Empty Closet,

all the assets, including the funds to the Gay Alliance,

and that became the umbrella organization for the women's

group, and the men's group, and any of the other operations

that may be taking place.

We invited, for instance, the small group out at Brockport.

I think there was a small group out at Geneseo--

if they were interested in being part of the umbrella

organization.

The Empty Closet was part of that.

KEVIN INDOVINO: So let's talk about the Empty Closet.

Talk to me about working on the Empty Closet,

and talk to me about working in Jay's apartment, and--

WHITEY LEBLANC: Oh, yeah, well--

KEVIN INDOVINO: --the whole beginnings of the Empty Closet.

WHITEY LEBLANC: The Empty Closet, and the very beginning,

at Todd Union, at the University of Rochester,

at Gay Liberation Front, the Empty Closet

was put out rather sporadically.

It was a mimeographed sheet that was put out

whenever they got around to something,

and needed to put out a message of some sort.

However, a couple of us went to Jay Baker.

We thought Jay was the guy to do this.

We went to Jay and said, Jay, if you'll be the editor,

we will be right there with you.

We need to put this out every single month, come

hell or high water.

And Jay accepted the job.

The Empty Closet was then moved into his living

room on Alexander Street, and it was put out every single month.

It was still being mimeographed at first.

But not long after, by probably about '72,

he had the thing printed on newsprint, offset.

And it was being--

with a masthead.

It was starting to be a newspaper.

It was not just a leaflet being turned out.

And it was every single month.

We met at Jay's for about a week before the issue,

a couple of weeks before the issue date, and paste it up.

The articles were all typed on an IBM Selectric,

and then pasted on these sheets.

Jay did all that stuff.

I don't know anything about that.

And then we would carry that to the printer, and get the paper.

And we would have like four or five hundred copies done.

And then on the Saturday night, the first Saturday the night

of the month, three or four of us would grab a pile

and go to various bars.

And in some of the bars we would just

put a pile on the cigarette machine, or whatever.

And at Jim's bar, we would stand outside the door,

and as everybody filed out of the bar at two,

closing time, everybody got a sheet,

everybody got a copy of the Empty Closet on their way out.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Aside from providing people

with a local newspaper, which happened

to be a gay newspaper, what else do you think you were providing

these people?

Why did the Empty Closet become such an important resource

for the gay community?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, it was the only source

of information that, up to that point,

that anybody had for what's going on in the gay community,

if anything.

And those of us who were active in the Gay Alliance

were concerned about-- we wanted to publicize whatever

activities we were involved in.

And, of course, that was done, because the Empty Closet was

also an organ of information for the Gay Alliance,

as well as being a general newspaper of whatever's

going on in the gay community, locally or nationally.

So that was the point of the whole work.

KEVIN INDOVINO: As the first elected President of the GAGV,

what were you hoping to achieve with the organization?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, as first President,

my main object back then was to get the thing organized,

get the thing registered, as a nonprofit with New York State,

so that we would become an official organization

and nonprofit organization.

And, of course, to form an umbrella organization that

would coordinate and would bring together

the various activities that were going on,

movement activities that were going on, in the county,

in the general vicinity of Rochester.

Up until that point, the lesbian group and the men's group

was very separate.

They had their own--

the lesbian group needed to really talk

about their own issues, because there were issues

that they needed to talk about.

And they felt that they wanted to be separate.

But we needed to come together for many issues.

And so the Gay Alliance was going

to be that bond that brought us together.

That was it.

KEVIN INDOVINO: That's enough.

Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out the order of asking you

these next questions here.

I'm just going to throw out some names at you for a moment,

and I just want to get just quick impressions

of these people that you worked with.

Who they were, and what they were like to work with.

First, Tim Mains, tell me about Tim Mains.

WHITEY LEBLANC: Tim Mains got into the organization

because the Speakers Bureau, headed up

by Karen Hagberg, the Speakers Bureau

was asked to do an event out at Greece Arcadia High School.

And Tim Mains was teaching out there, Social Studies, I think.

And he's the one that requested the Speakers Bureau.

They went out there, spoke, had a session with students.

At that point, Tim was not involved with us at all.

I don't know how out he was at all.

I doubt if he was out at school.

However, the reaction at the school was interesting.

Parents, of course, reacted to this,

and it was mostly parents who--

none of them, of course, were in the session.

A lot of people who were complaining about it,

we later found out, that their kids

weren't even in the session.

There was a positive reaction among teachers,

but there was a lot of parent, as I understand

it, as I recall, there was a lot of parent negative reaction

to this thing.

And Tim, of course, had to deal with that.

Eventually, Tim started coming to our meetings,

and that's how he got involved.

Because his contact with the Speakers Bureau there,

he sniffed around the organization,

and got very involved with us.

KEVIN INDOVINO: What about his contributions?

Because in talking to Tim, he was

identified as someone who could write the bylaws

for your organization.

WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah, right away it

was obvious that this is a guy that we needed.

We needed his talents.

And the best thing he could do, would be to--

he's the kind of guy that would do a good job on something

like a constitution, because he's

a very detailed man, detailed.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Talk to me about Jay Baker.

What was he like?

And what was his contributions?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Jay Baker taught out at MCC,

and he was a very humorous guy.

But he also had a good talent for putting together

that paper.

Now, of course, the columns weren't always straight, and--

but by gosh, the thing got out.

And it was put together on time.

And we had a place to work, his living room.

He even lost his roommate over this.

So I've remained a good friend of Jay Baker ever since.

We've been close friends ever since then.

KEVIN INDOVINO: How about Karen, Karen Hagberg?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Karen Hagberg, at that time,

ran the Speakers Bureau.

There, very, very talented woman who did a great job with that.

Trained our Speakers Bureau people.

That's all I can say there.

Who else?

Patti?

KEVIN INDOVINO: Patti Evans?

Patti Evans was, as I recall, she

was interested in political action.

She was one of the original people with Bob Osborn, and RJ

Alcala, and Larry Fine.

These are the people who really formed the original Gay

Liberation Front.

And Osborn, I believe, was the real force behind forming that.

Patti was one of the original people,

and it seemed like if there's any political action going on,

any discussion about the political action, Patti

was involved in that.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, talking about the political action--

WHITEY LEBLANC: Which I was not terribly involved with.

KEVIN INDOVINO: No, but you were there, part of the--

were you part of that CETA funding debacle?

WHITEY LEBLANC: As far as the CETA funding goes,

I was not President any longer.

Michael Robertson, he succeeded me as President,

and he was the right guy for that job.

I was not the right guy for that job.

I knew when to get out.

That CETA funding was a big issue,

and it was a very important issue, not just

because for the funding we got.

It was the publicity that we got.

It was the newspaper coverage that was given at the time.

We were in the paper every week on that subject.

So this gave us great exposure.

That's the way I look at it.

KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm just checking my notes here

to make sure I'm not skipping over anything.

The first gay picnics, do you remember those?

WHITEY LEBLANC: OK.

Yeah.

The gay picnic, back in--

I want to refer to something, see what year that was.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Was it '73?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah.

In about 1973, regarding the gay picnic, Ducky,

who was the manager, and I believe

at that time, the owner of Jim's bar, came to us and said,

I'll provide a keg of beer out at Genesee Valley Park

if you want to have a picnic.

And this was the very first gay community picnic.

Probably about forty people showed up.

This was really just Gay Liberation Front people and Gay

Alliance people, very small.

We had a good time, but it was just a small picnic.

Following that picnic, however, we said,

we can do a better job.

So I was no longer President of the Gay Alliance.

I took the job, and weeks and weeks before the following year

in July, weeks and weeks before this thing,

we started publicizing the thing.

We got a couple hundred people there.

Ducky arranged for Genesee Brewery to provide free beer.

We got some hots, Zweigle's hots, and some buns,

and some stuff, and we provided--

a couple hundred people showed up.

And then the following year, a couple of more hundred people

showed up.

And finally, we were--

I did it for six years.

And by the time I got through doing it,

we probably had eight or nine hundred people.

I don't remember.

I don't remember the totals, but we were growing every year.

We had games.

We had tug of war between the lesbians and the men's group.

We had all kinds of things.

But it developed into a big event at Genesee Valley Park.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Expanding on that a little bit, why

do you think it became so significant?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, we knew that, for instance,

Erie, Pennsylvania, for many, many years,

had a huge gay picnic.

I think Buffalo did too, before we even started.

And so we were sort of inspired by the fact

that those communities can do it, we can do it.

As far as I was concerned, this was a very important event,

because it was a social event that didn't involve bars.

It was a mass event, where lesbians and gay men

could come together.

We had the speakers.

What's her name?

KEVIN INDOVINO: Midge?

WHITEY LEBLANC: The Vice-Mayor of Rochester.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, Midge Costanza.

WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah, Costanza.

Midge Costanza spoke at one of our things.

We had raffles, sold raffle tickets.

One year we did a bike.

Then we started getting each of the gay bars

to donate to help subsidize the picnic.

Because actually, we were only charging like three bucks

for the picnic.

About three dollars is what I recall.

Several years, we had a meeting in my backyard of all the bar

owners to get their support, and to get the pledge for one

hundred bucks a piece.

And we would come up with four or five, five or six hundred

dollars.

Not everybody did it, but most of the bars did.

And that would subsidize some of the operation.

Because we were getting free beer Genesee Brewery.

That was a big thing.

KEVIN INDOVINO: When you stood in that park,

whether it was year one or year six, or whatever,

and you saw this mass of people coming together,

what do it make you feel inside?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Very proud.

Very proud.

I felt very proud to see that kind

of a gathering in Rochester, rivaling

what they were doing in Erie, Pennsylvania

that we had heard about.

And some of our people had even attended those things

and came back with stories.

Yeah, for me, it was a very proud event.

KEVIN INDOVINO: When you look back

over the years, in more of a general sense,

but what do you think your greatest accomplishment has

been in what you've done for the gay community here

in Rochester?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, this is all very long ago,

because I'm not active right now at all,

and I haven't been active for many, many years.

I've been supportive, but not active.

I think the forming of the Gay Alliance,

the idea we had to form an umbrella organization,

to provide the services that we did,

and to make the Empty Closet a solid rock that has existed,

without fail, ever since.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Hold that thought.

We have church bells going off.

(pause in recording)

Can you pick it up from there?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Where was I?

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, I know.

Well, let me ask you this in a slightly different way.

Well, we've got three gongs going here, hold on a second.

Was that it?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, ask the question and we can wait.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.

Again, looking back at what you were doing back in those years,

what are you most proud of?

WHITEY LEBLANC: What's that?

KEVIN INDOVINO: What are you most proud of?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, as I just said,

what I'm most proud of is being part

of organizing the Gay Alliance.

And it certainly wasn't me alone.

It was the talents we had available at that time,

and a lot of people were involved in it.

And establishing a rock solid organization,

especially the concept of being an umbrella organization,

that would bring together all of the resources of the community

to support the movement.

The Empty Closet being a rock solid operation

that put out a newspaper every single month, without

fail, and is still doing it.

It's probably the oldest solid gay newspaper around.

I know that in other organizations,

like New York City, one month they're called this,

and then four months later, they're

called something else, because they would

have a revolution of some sort.

But we were solid here in Rochester.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, let me ask you this then.

You can take the time to think about this for a second.

But in everything that we have, the Gay Alliance,

and the newspaper, and all the other support groups,

and the University being part of all

of this, what do you think it says

about Rochester as a community?

WHITEY LEBLANC: It's solid.

I'd say that I think what distinguishes Rochester

is the fact that we were able to form a real solid organization,

and the community, I think, for the most part,

was supportive of it.

We didn't get any great resistance,

and that says a lot for Rochester.

The talent we had here within the organization, I think,

was probably exceptional, in terms of our willingness

and ability to form a rock solid organization that

has lasted this long.

KEVIN INDOVINO: If you look at where we are today,

one could say we've come a long way.

What are your thoughts on that?

But also, what would your message

be to the younger generations coming up behind us?

WHITEY LEBLANC: That's a toughie for a guy that's

not involved at all anymore.

KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, let's break it down then.

When you look at what we have now, gay marriage

and domestic partnership benefits and all this,

what are your thoughts on where we are today?

WHITEY LEBLANC: I often think about the difference

in what we have today and what we had back then.

The issues are so different.

Back then, the issue was gay bars being raided.

The issue was coming out.

The issue was people being harassed by police

if they were cruising, or something like that.

Today, those are not issues.

Today, the issue is whether or not you can get married.

Back then, the issue was being fired at your job

if you were found out to be gay.

Today, it's not an issue.

At least I don't think it's an issue.

They have a very different atmosphere today to work with.

I think our task back then was a little simpler.

We weren't involved in these very heavy-duty issues.

KEVIN INDOVINO: But were your tasks back then the spark

to get us where we are today?

WHITEY LEBLANC: They were a spark.

Yes, they were a spark.

They took a little bit more courage

for some of the things that were being done.

They took a little bit more courage, for instance,

if you were going to be outed in the newspaper.

I was outed on the radio.

I had a small interview with somebody,

and I showed up at work.

I was working at that time in an automotive company,

a blue collar operation.

And I showed up at work one morning

and my boss said, "I heard you on the radio this morning."

It didn't occur to me that doing that interview

was going to be heard by anybody.

It just didn't.

I was just shocked that my boss--

but nothing happened.

It was interesting.

I was fortunate.

For some people, that would have been a big issue coming out

like that at work.

KEVIN INDOVINO: One last question.

Looking back, again, at your activities in those years,

do you have one really significant

or memorable moment, or one really found moment

that you could share with us, that really just kind of sticks

in your mind, oh, I remember when that happened?

WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, the big event