Video Interview, Whitey LeBlanc, April 11, 2012

  • KEVIN INDOVINO: If you're talking
  • and you lose your train of thought,
  • just say, "You know what, I can say that better.
  • Let me start again."
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah.
  • UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What did he have for breakfast?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: What did you have for breakfast?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: I had cereal and fruit, and coffee, and toast.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
  • We are rolling.
  • So I want to start in the early years.
  • I want to get a sense, Whitey, from you,
  • of what the gay community in Rochester
  • was like in the 1960s and 1970s.
  • Where did you meet people?
  • Where were the kind of things that you were dealing with?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, back in the sixties and early sixties
  • in Rochester, the gay community was--
  • well, the meeting places was obviously the bars.
  • I mean, there was no other place to get with other gay people,
  • and to meet people, socialize.
  • It's unfortunate, but that's where it was.
  • There were, in Rochester, when I arrived in about '64,
  • there were probably about five or six gay bars.
  • And by the early seventies, there
  • were about seven or eight I guess.
  • Some were better than others.
  • But that was it.
  • That was where you did it.
  • You met other people.
  • You may have even met your partner in a bar.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Talk to me about life in general
  • as a gay person in Rochester.
  • Did you have to lead a double life?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, at that time, yes,
  • I was leading a double life.
  • I was certainly not, when I arrived in Rochester,
  • I was certainly not out in the community.
  • I was out among other gay friends, of course.
  • But the job I had with the Boy Scouts of America was--
  • you didn't say a word.
  • And everything worked out fine.
  • I was with them for nine years, and I left in good standing.
  • I came to Rochester through the Boy Scouts there.
  • I directed camps and so forth.
  • And I even had a lover.
  • I had a live-in lover at the time, but that was no problem.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Can you talk to me, going back
  • to the bar scene, and that's the place
  • that you met people, the places that you socialized.
  • Back in that day, there was kind of this rule or law that says,
  • same sex people can't touch when they dance.
  • Talk to me about some of the things
  • that you were up against, even though you were out
  • at these gay bars, there were still things you couldn't do.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah.
  • Well, as far as your behavior in a gay bar, dancing,
  • for instance, I moved here from New York City,
  • and I didn't know a single bar in New York City where there
  • was steady dancing going on.
  • Until I got to Rochester and moved in Rochester
  • and found that there was a--
  • the first bar I went into was Dick's 43.
  • No longer around.
  • But Dick's 43 had dancing on a steady basis, on the weekends.
  • But it was not--
  • let's put it this way.
  • Every now and then there was no touching.
  • Every now and then you could dance, but no touching.
  • Or every now and then, there was no dancing at all,
  • because it may be that police were coming in,
  • or she expected police to come in.
  • So it was, you just couldn't depend on it.
  • But generally speaking, there was
  • dancing going on at Dick's 43.
  • That's the only place that had dancing up until,
  • that I know about, up until when Jim's bar opened up
  • on North Street.
  • And that was later.
  • That was like, in what, '73 or something like that, '74.
  • There was a big back room there for dancing,
  • and there was no restrictions in any way.
  • It was a gay owned, and he wasn't paying
  • for any kind of protection.
  • He didn't have to worry about that sort of thing.
  • We did get raided, however, a few times.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, we'll get to that in a moment.
  • But there's one thing you touched upon that I want to get
  • your opinion on is, over at Dick's 43 three was a women
  • named Martha, a part-owner of Dick's.
  • Tell me who Martha was, and what was she like?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, I didn't know Martha that well,
  • but there were some people, some of the older people there,
  • just knew her for ages and loved her and all that.
  • But I did not have that feeling.
  • As a matter of fact, when we were
  • trying to distribute the Empty Closet, which we eventually
  • began to put out every month, at the beginning of the month,
  • hers was the only bar that we could not
  • distribute the Empty Closet in.
  • We couldn't even put a pile on the cigarette machine,
  • as we did in other bars.
  • "I don't believe in that," she said.
  • "I don't believe in that."
  • Well, and I went in there and asked her several times
  • to do this.
  • "I don't believe in it."
  • What she didn't believe in, I don't know, but that was it.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to explore this a little bit more,
  • and try to get the kind of person she was, because she was
  • obviously running a gay bar.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Amen.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: And taking gay money.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Right.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: But why did the gay community then
  • support her is she also had these other attitudes?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, that was the only place you
  • could dance for a long time.
  • And that was it.
  • That was the place.
  • I think, see, her attitude was not
  • unlike the attitude of other aspects of our living.
  • And we were sort of used to that sort of thing.
  • And I think you just let that wash over you,
  • that kind of behavior.
  • My big run in with her was about running the Empty Closet.
  • I'll never forget that.
  • I'll never forget her response to that.
  • "I don't believe in that."
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, I have a note here from you.
  • And actually in 1971, you witnessed a raid on Jim's bar.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Yes.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Tell me what happened.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Speaking of raids, I was in Jim's bar
  • one night.
  • It was a weekday evening.
  • I happened to be standing just outside the back room, which
  • is where the dancing took place, in a back room.
  • There was a disc jockey booth there,
  • and there was a dance floor, and the place was hopping.
  • And I was standing just outside that door in the main room,
  • and I noticed, as I was facing the front of the building,
  • that there's this big picture window there,
  • and I noticed a whole parade of uniformed police walking
  • by that going toward the door.
  • And I also saw them coming in the main door of the bar.
  • And right away, I went into the--
  • I knew this was a raid.
  • Right away, I went into the dance room
  • and notified Pat, who was the disk jockey there
  • for many years, and told him that we're being raided.
  • And he stopped the music immediately.
  • And the police did come in, and they rounded everybody up,
  • and told everybody to leave.
  • Except that they pointed at me, and said, "Not you.
  • You stay here."
  • And I have to stand next to a policeman
  • while everybody else was filing out of the bar.
  • And I kept asking, "Why am I being held?"
  • And why I was being held was that there
  • was a plainclothes policemen in the bar all the time,
  • and he thought I was a wise-ass for notifying
  • the disk jockey I guess.
  • They let me go.
  • I didn't get charged or anything.
  • I later found out that Jim Van Allen,
  • who was the owner of that bar, was cited for the lighting was
  • too low in the bar.
  • They couldn't get him on dancing.
  • There was no law against dancing, you see, I guess.
  • So they got him on minor items.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, previous to 1971,
  • I got a note here about something
  • that you talked about Stonewall.
  • You weren't down in New York for the Stonewall riots, were you?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: No, no.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: But you were up here in Rochester by then?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Yes.
  • Well, in 1969 I was in Rochester,
  • but I was not involved in the movement at that point.
  • I was seeing it on TV and we were
  • saying to ourselves, "Holy mackerel, what's going on?"
  • We couldn't believe what was going on.
  • This was wonderful to see.
  • And it didn't occur to us that it would
  • reach Rochester in any way.
  • This is something you did in New York City.
  • But later, of course, we found out,
  • I found out, having been given a flyer in the bar.
  • One night, in 1970, I was in a bar,
  • and Larry Fine, one of the guys out from University
  • of Rochester, handed me a flyer inviting us to meetings out
  • at Todd Union at the University of Rochester
  • where the Gay Liberation Front was holding meetings.
  • Of course, this was as a result of the Stonewall riots
  • that probably across the country,
  • campuses, college campuses, were forming
  • gay organizations being inspired by the Stonewall riots.
  • And so I attended a meeting on a Sunday night
  • at Town Union, the very following Sunday night,
  • and I got hooked.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to talk about your decision
  • to go into that first meeting.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: What was it that prompted you?
  • Or what was it that generated a spark in you that's saying,
  • oh, this is something I should go check out.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, no particular incident
  • at that point caused me to go to that meeting.
  • I went to that meeting out of curiosity.
  • I had no idea who was going to be there, what was going on.
  • I had no idea what their goal was or anything.
  • I just went to the meeting because I was invited to it.
  • Once I got there, I was really impressed
  • by the leadership that was going on there,
  • the kind of discussion that was taking place, of course.
  • There was probably about twenty or thirty people
  • sitting around the room, and old Walt Delaney,
  • who became a lifelong friend of mine, was leading a discussion.
  • I forget it was-- it's probably something like,
  • how to come out with your parents, or coming out at work.
  • Those were the kinds of discussions that were
  • taking place at these meetings.
  • Consciousness raising, they called them.
  • And so I was very impressed with what was going on.
  • And so I was at every single Sunday night meeting
  • from then on, and eventually got involved in the operation.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, I want to touch upon a little bit about
  • once you went to that meeting and found out
  • what it's all about, again, what was that first impression
  • that stayed with you?
  • Yeah, this is definitely something
  • that I want to be involved with.
  • What was it that was going on at those meetings?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, what was going on
  • is, I had never heard people talk seriously
  • about the gay situation and how it relates to your whole life.
  • Most of the time, when we got together socially,
  • it was all frivolous activities.
  • We were dancing or we were going to bars,
  • and this was strictly socializing.
  • This is the first time that I'd ever
  • been involved in any kind of a discussion about my life,
  • and how being gay affects it, and how
  • being gay in a straight community affects everything.
  • So this was, for me, it was a whole revolutionary idea.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Once you get involved, what did you do?
  • What was your main mission?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, for months I was just
  • helping out and making the coffee, or whatever.
  • After a while, I got involved in some of this activities
  • that we were participating in.
  • For instance, your recalled that we talked about this gay bar
  • raiding that took place at Jim's.
  • Well, the very following Sunday night
  • when I got to that meeting, I, of course,
  • told about my experience there.
  • And we decided we were going to do something about that.
  • And so this was the very first gay action
  • that I'd participated in.
  • We decided to have a dance-in at a straight restaurant
  • where there would be nothing but straight people there.
  • We went to the top of the Plaza prearranged at a certain time.
  • Seven couples, fourteen people, boy and girl.
  • The lesbian group participated in this as well.
  • And we all went as couples at an assigned time.
  • We walked into the top of the Plaza at about, let's say,
  • ten-thirty, eleven o'clock.
  • I went there early to sort of scope
  • out the situation to see if by any means they may expect us,
  • or whatever.
  • And so I sat at the bar drinking,
  • and I did notice that there was some discussion
  • about something's going to happen.
  • Anyway, our people arrived.
  • We sat around having drinks in separate locations.
  • And at a signal, we all started dancing.
  • And I don't know whether we were disappointed or not,
  • but nothing happened.
  • In other words, there was no real reaction.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Let's take it back a little bit
  • from the point of signal.
  • Make it clear to us that you started
  • dancing as same sex couples.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Oh, yeah.
  • That's right.
  • Yeah, we got to go back on that.
  • At first, we were dancing mixed boy-girl couples, and then
  • all of a sudden, at a signal, we arranged
  • to dance same sex couples.
  • And that's where we--
  • I just don't recall any kind of a reaction that
  • would be negative.
  • People were probably biting their lip over the situation.
  • As a matter of fact, we were invited to join in--
  • at that time very popular was, what
  • do you call it that Jewish dance, the Hora?
  • Yeah.
  • It's called-- they dance in a circle.
  • We were invited to join, specifically invited
  • to join in on that.
  • So we felt welcome.
  • I'm sure the owner was not terribly pleased.
  • And nothing was done.
  • We decided to leave.
  • And we filed out at a signal, and there was no real reaction.
  • We had hoped the press would show up.
  • I believe that we, and I don't remember this specifically,
  • but I think we did notify the press that this
  • was going to take place.
  • But we didn't see any indication of that,
  • nor was there anything in the papers the following day.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So let me ask you, was it worth it?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: It was worth it from several standpoints.
  • Number one, from our own standpoint.
  • It felt good doing it.
  • Because we got no publicity on it, that was probably,
  • from a public standpoint, it was probably a waste of time.
  • It didn't have any effect.
  • But we felt good about doing it, and that's all I can say.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to move back a little bit to the Gay
  • Liberation Front, and when you were
  • asked to move off of campus.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah.
  • At one point, the University of Rochester Student Activities
  • Committee, or whatever it's called-- the Student Council,
  • that's what it was.
  • See, the Student Council sponsored GLF.
  • They provided an office.
  • They provided a meeting place, a telephone,
  • just like any other organization on campus.
  • It became obvious after a few years
  • that overwhelmingly most of the people
  • sitting there in those meetings were
  • non-students from the city.
  • We began to feel, too, that maybe we belong in the city.
  • But the student activities people
  • did suggest to us that because it was mostly non-students,
  • that we might be better to move off campus.
  • We weren't really thrown out, but it was suggested.
  • And we felt the same way.
  • And therefore, we moved off campus.
  • We had trouble finding a location.
  • It needed to be free.
  • So one of the people, a businessman man who
  • was attending our meetings, Mark Hall,
  • offered us space in the Bull's Head area.
  • I think it was an empty--
  • the back of a drugstore.
  • Or I think it was also a dentist office partly.
  • There was several areas there that were available to us.
  • Not heated.
  • There was electricity, thank goodness.
  • The entrance was in the back of the building.
  • It was hostile territory, because we
  • did get rocks thrown into the windows,
  • and so forth, after we were there for a while.
  • We were meeting there with electric heaters on the floor.
  • But it was all we had, and we needed it.
  • During that time, the women were meeting at the Genesee Co-op.
  • They had rented space there on Monroe Avenue.
  • And after a while, the lesbian group
  • started to invite us to share space with them.
  • And we took them up on it.
  • But before that happened, of course,
  • we formed the Gay Alliance there.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Before we jump ahead a little bit,
  • I want to talk a little bit more about Brown Street.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Yes.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: The next group at Brown Street.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: OK.
  • Yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Can you describe for me the--
  • you started describing a little bit,
  • and I want you to describe for me a little bit more,
  • the environment or the atmosphere of these meetings,
  • the camaraderie.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Oh, yeah.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: What was it like?
  • What were you guys talking about around the table,
  • that kind of thing?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: This was strictly, by the way,
  • strictly a men's group on Brown Street.
  • This was a men's group.
  • There were some women who were still coming to it,
  • but very few, because the women had split off when
  • we were at GLF on Todd union.
  • They split off and they were having their own meetings
  • at the Co-op.
  • So this was largely a men's group.
  • We took the same format that we were
  • doing at Todd Union at the University.
  • We formed a Speakers Bureau.
  • As a matter of fact, the whole operation moved.
  • The Speakers Bureau, the Empty Closet, the library, everything
  • moved.
  • And we carried on the same operations we were having.
  • Every evening we had somebody by the phones
  • ready to take in calls, if anybody
  • wanted to discuss anything.
  • We called it our hotline.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, let's back up on that a little bit.
  • Talk to me about the hotline.
  • Tell me, obviously, what it was, and how it was being run.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: The hotline was our people signed up
  • on a schedule to be on duty each evening,
  • it'd be a different person.
  • And we had a little training program
  • for the people who were going to be on the hotline that night.
  • And people would call in.
  • We had ads in the Empty Closet, notices in the Empty Closet,
  • that there was a hotline available.
  • This is the same kind of operation
  • that was going on at the Todd Union,
  • University of Rochester, same hotline.
  • So people would call in for information
  • about the organization, or they would
  • call in just wanted to talk to somebody that
  • was gay about their situation.
  • And so it was on the phone, it could turn out
  • to be an on the phone counseling session.
  • We also did have counseling available at the office
  • for people who wanted to actually come in and talk
  • to somebody.
  • We had, of course, the Speakers Bureau,
  • and they went out on speaking engagements
  • at various schools, colleges, organizations.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Did you get a lot of calls?
  • Were calls coming in regularly, and did that surprise you?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: The times that I served,
  • I can't give you any numbers on that,
  • but the times that I served, you might get a couple of calls
  • a night, really.
  • But sometimes the call that you got,
  • you were darn glad you were there.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Good.
  • So you guys eventually moved over to the Co-op
  • and joined with the women, essentially the development
  • of the GAGV, right?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, GAGV was developed before we moved.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Who developed it?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Alright, here.
  • While we were at- after we moved,
  • very soon after we moved, I was elected
  • President of the organization.
  • We called ourselves the Gay Alliance of the Genesee Valley.
  • We appointed Tim Mains to draw up a constitution and bylaws,
  • a committee headed by Tim Mains, to draw
  • a constitution and bylaws.
  • And our objective there, our goal, really,
  • was to form an umbrella organization.
  • And after that would get organized and put together,
  • we then called the men's group the Gay Brotherhood
  • of Rochester.
  • So we right away separated ourselves
  • as the Gay Brotherhood of Rochester, GBR.
  • And when the women got involved, they were the Lesbian Resource
  • Center.
  • By the time we got through organizing that, the bylaws
  • and all that, we were invited to join them at the Genesee Co-op.
  • So that the organization, by the time
  • we got to the Genesee Co-op, it was already formed.
  • And we turned over the library--
  • whoops.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: It's OK, just take it back.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: We turned over the library, the Empty Closet,
  • all the assets, including the funds to the Gay Alliance,
  • and that became the umbrella organization for the women's
  • group, and the men's group, and any of the other operations
  • that may be taking place.
  • We invited, for instance, the small group out at Brockport.
  • I think there was a small group out at Geneseo--
  • if they were interested in being part of the umbrella
  • organization.
  • The Empty Closet was part of that.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: So let's talk about the Empty Closet.
  • Talk to me about working on the Empty Closet,
  • and talk to me about working in Jay's apartment, and--
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Oh, yeah, well--
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: --the whole beginnings of the Empty Closet.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: The Empty Closet, and the very beginning,
  • at Todd Union, at the University of Rochester,
  • at Gay Liberation Front, the Empty Closet
  • was put out rather sporadically.
  • It was a mimeographed sheet that was put out
  • whenever they got around to something,
  • and needed to put out a message of some sort.
  • However, a couple of us went to Jay Baker.
  • We thought Jay was the guy to do this.
  • We went to Jay and said, Jay, if you'll be the editor,
  • we will be right there with you.
  • We need to put this out every single month, come
  • hell or high water.
  • And Jay accepted the job.
  • The Empty Closet was then moved into his living
  • room on Alexander Street, and it was put out every single month.
  • It was still being mimeographed at first.
  • But not long after, by probably about '72,
  • he had the thing printed on newsprint, offset.
  • And it was being--
  • with a masthead.
  • It was starting to be a newspaper.
  • It was not just a leaflet being turned out.
  • And it was every single month.
  • We met at Jay's for about a week before the issue,
  • a couple of weeks before the issue date, and paste it up.
  • The articles were all typed on an IBM Selectric,
  • and then pasted on these sheets.
  • Jay did all that stuff.
  • I don't know anything about that.
  • And then we would carry that to the printer, and get the paper.
  • And we would have like four or five hundred copies done.
  • And then on the Saturday night, the first Saturday the night
  • of the month, three or four of us would grab a pile
  • and go to various bars.
  • And in some of the bars we would just
  • put a pile on the cigarette machine, or whatever.
  • And at Jim's bar, we would stand outside the door,
  • and as everybody filed out of the bar at two,
  • closing time, everybody got a sheet,
  • everybody got a copy of the Empty Closet on their way out.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Aside from providing people
  • with a local newspaper, which happened
  • to be a gay newspaper, what else do you think you were providing
  • these people?
  • Why did the Empty Closet become such an important resource
  • for the gay community?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, it was the only source
  • of information that, up to that point,
  • that anybody had for what's going on in the gay community,
  • if anything.
  • And those of us who were active in the Gay Alliance
  • were concerned about-- we wanted to publicize whatever
  • activities we were involved in.
  • And, of course, that was done, because the Empty Closet was
  • also an organ of information for the Gay Alliance,
  • as well as being a general newspaper of whatever's
  • going on in the gay community, locally or nationally.
  • So that was the point of the whole work.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: As the first elected President of the GAGV,
  • what were you hoping to achieve with the organization?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, as first President,
  • my main object back then was to get the thing organized,
  • get the thing registered, as a nonprofit with New York State,
  • so that we would become an official organization
  • and nonprofit organization.
  • And, of course, to form an umbrella organization that
  • would coordinate and would bring together
  • the various activities that were going on,
  • movement activities that were going on, in the county,
  • in the general vicinity of Rochester.
  • Up until that point, the lesbian group and the men's group
  • was very separate.
  • They had their own--
  • the lesbian group needed to really talk
  • about their own issues, because there were issues
  • that they needed to talk about.
  • And they felt that they wanted to be separate.
  • But we needed to come together for many issues.
  • And so the Gay Alliance was going
  • to be that bond that brought us together.
  • That was it.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: That's enough.
  • Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out the order of asking you
  • these next questions here.
  • I'm just going to throw out some names at you for a moment,
  • and I just want to get just quick impressions
  • of these people that you worked with.
  • Who they were, and what they were like to work with.
  • First, Tim Mains, tell me about Tim Mains.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Tim Mains got into the organization
  • because the Speakers Bureau, headed up
  • by Karen Hagberg, the Speakers Bureau
  • was asked to do an event out at Greece Arcadia High School.
  • And Tim Mains was teaching out there, Social Studies, I think.
  • And he's the one that requested the Speakers Bureau.
  • They went out there, spoke, had a session with students.
  • At that point, Tim was not involved with us at all.
  • I don't know how out he was at all.
  • I doubt if he was out at school.
  • However, the reaction at the school was interesting.
  • Parents, of course, reacted to this,
  • and it was mostly parents who--
  • none of them, of course, were in the session.
  • A lot of people who were complaining about it,
  • we later found out, that their kids
  • weren't even in the session.
  • There was a positive reaction among teachers,
  • but there was a lot of parent, as I understand
  • it, as I recall, there was a lot of parent negative reaction
  • to this thing.
  • And Tim, of course, had to deal with that.
  • Eventually, Tim started coming to our meetings,
  • and that's how he got involved.
  • Because his contact with the Speakers Bureau there,
  • he sniffed around the organization,
  • and got very involved with us.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: What about his contributions?
  • Because in talking to Tim, he was
  • identified as someone who could write the bylaws
  • for your organization.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah, right away it
  • was obvious that this is a guy that we needed.
  • We needed his talents.
  • And the best thing he could do, would be to--
  • he's the kind of guy that would do a good job on something
  • like a constitution, because he's
  • a very detailed man, detailed.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Talk to me about Jay Baker.
  • What was he like?
  • And what was his contributions?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Jay Baker taught out at MCC,
  • and he was a very humorous guy.
  • But he also had a good talent for putting together
  • that paper.
  • Now, of course, the columns weren't always straight, and--
  • but by gosh, the thing got out.
  • And it was put together on time.
  • And we had a place to work, his living room.
  • He even lost his roommate over this.
  • So I've remained a good friend of Jay Baker ever since.
  • We've been close friends ever since then.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: How about Karen, Karen Hagberg?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Karen Hagberg, at that time,
  • ran the Speakers Bureau.
  • There, very, very talented woman who did a great job with that.
  • Trained our Speakers Bureau people.
  • That's all I can say there.
  • Who else?
  • Patti?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Patti Evans?
  • Patti Evans was, as I recall, she
  • was interested in political action.
  • She was one of the original people with Bob Osborn, and RJ
  • Alcala, and Larry Fine.
  • These are the people who really formed the original Gay
  • Liberation Front.
  • And Osborn, I believe, was the real force behind forming that.
  • Patti was one of the original people,
  • and it seemed like if there's any political action going on,
  • any discussion about the political action, Patti
  • was involved in that.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, talking about the political action--
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Which I was not terribly involved with.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: No, but you were there, part of the--
  • were you part of that CETA funding debacle?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: As far as the CETA funding goes,
  • I was not President any longer.
  • Michael Robertson, he succeeded me as President,
  • and he was the right guy for that job.
  • I was not the right guy for that job.
  • I knew when to get out.
  • That CETA funding was a big issue,
  • and it was a very important issue, not just
  • because for the funding we got.
  • It was the publicity that we got.
  • It was the newspaper coverage that was given at the time.
  • We were in the paper every week on that subject.
  • So this gave us great exposure.
  • That's the way I look at it.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm just checking my notes here
  • to make sure I'm not skipping over anything.
  • The first gay picnics, do you remember those?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: OK.
  • Yeah.
  • The gay picnic, back in--
  • I want to refer to something, see what year that was.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Was it '73?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah.
  • In about 1973, regarding the gay picnic, Ducky,
  • who was the manager, and I believe
  • at that time, the owner of Jim's bar, came to us and said,
  • I'll provide a keg of beer out at Genesee Valley Park
  • if you want to have a picnic.
  • And this was the very first gay community picnic.
  • Probably about forty people showed up.
  • This was really just Gay Liberation Front people and Gay
  • Alliance people, very small.
  • We had a good time, but it was just a small picnic.
  • Following that picnic, however, we said,
  • we can do a better job.
  • So I was no longer President of the Gay Alliance.
  • I took the job, and weeks and weeks before the following year
  • in July, weeks and weeks before this thing,
  • we started publicizing the thing.
  • We got a couple hundred people there.
  • Ducky arranged for Genesee Brewery to provide free beer.
  • We got some hots, Zweigle's hots, and some buns,
  • and some stuff, and we provided--
  • a couple hundred people showed up.
  • And then the following year, a couple of more hundred people
  • showed up.
  • And finally, we were--
  • I did it for six years.
  • And by the time I got through doing it,
  • we probably had eight or nine hundred people.
  • I don't remember.
  • I don't remember the totals, but we were growing every year.
  • We had games.
  • We had tug of war between the lesbians and the men's group.
  • We had all kinds of things.
  • But it developed into a big event at Genesee Valley Park.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Expanding on that a little bit, why
  • do you think it became so significant?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, we knew that, for instance,
  • Erie, Pennsylvania, for many, many years,
  • had a huge gay picnic.
  • I think Buffalo did too, before we even started.
  • And so we were sort of inspired by the fact
  • that those communities can do it, we can do it.
  • As far as I was concerned, this was a very important event,
  • because it was a social event that didn't involve bars.
  • It was a mass event, where lesbians and gay men
  • could come together.
  • We had the speakers.
  • What's her name?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Midge?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: The Vice-Mayor of Rochester.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, Midge Costanza.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah, Costanza.
  • Midge Costanza spoke at one of our things.
  • We had raffles, sold raffle tickets.
  • One year we did a bike.
  • Then we started getting each of the gay bars
  • to donate to help subsidize the picnic.
  • Because actually, we were only charging like three bucks
  • for the picnic.
  • About three dollars is what I recall.
  • Several years, we had a meeting in my backyard of all the bar
  • owners to get their support, and to get the pledge for one
  • hundred bucks a piece.
  • And we would come up with four or five, five or six hundred
  • dollars.
  • Not everybody did it, but most of the bars did.
  • And that would subsidize some of the operation.
  • Because we were getting free beer Genesee Brewery.
  • That was a big thing.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: When you stood in that park,
  • whether it was year one or year six, or whatever,
  • and you saw this mass of people coming together,
  • what do it make you feel inside?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Very proud.
  • Very proud.
  • I felt very proud to see that kind
  • of a gathering in Rochester, rivaling
  • what they were doing in Erie, Pennsylvania
  • that we had heard about.
  • And some of our people had even attended those things
  • and came back with stories.
  • Yeah, for me, it was a very proud event.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: When you look back
  • over the years, in more of a general sense,
  • but what do you think your greatest accomplishment has
  • been in what you've done for the gay community here
  • in Rochester?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, this is all very long ago,
  • because I'm not active right now at all,
  • and I haven't been active for many, many years.
  • I've been supportive, but not active.
  • I think the forming of the Gay Alliance,
  • the idea we had to form an umbrella organization,
  • to provide the services that we did,
  • and to make the Empty Closet a solid rock that has existed,
  • without fail, ever since.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Hold that thought.
  • We have church bells going off.
  • (pause in recording)
  • Can you pick it up from there?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Where was I?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, I know.
  • Well, let me ask you this in a slightly different way.
  • Well, we've got three gongs going here, hold on a second.
  • Was that it?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, ask the question and we can wait.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
  • Again, looking back at what you were doing back in those years,
  • what are you most proud of?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: What's that?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: What are you most proud of?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, as I just said,
  • what I'm most proud of is being part
  • of organizing the Gay Alliance.
  • And it certainly wasn't me alone.
  • It was the talents we had available at that time,
  • and a lot of people were involved in it.
  • And establishing a rock solid organization,
  • especially the concept of being an umbrella organization,
  • that would bring together all of the resources of the community
  • to support the movement.
  • The Empty Closet being a rock solid operation
  • that put out a newspaper every single month, without
  • fail, and is still doing it.
  • It's probably the oldest solid gay newspaper around.
  • I know that in other organizations,
  • like New York City, one month they're called this,
  • and then four months later, they're
  • called something else, because they would
  • have a revolution of some sort.
  • But we were solid here in Rochester.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, let me ask you this then.
  • You can take the time to think about this for a second.
  • But in everything that we have, the Gay Alliance,
  • and the newspaper, and all the other support groups,
  • and the University being part of all
  • of this, what do you think it says
  • about Rochester as a community?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: It's solid.
  • I'd say that I think what distinguishes Rochester
  • is the fact that we were able to form a real solid organization,
  • and the community, I think, for the most part,
  • was supportive of it.
  • We didn't get any great resistance,
  • and that says a lot for Rochester.
  • The talent we had here within the organization, I think,
  • was probably exceptional, in terms of our willingness
  • and ability to form a rock solid organization that
  • has lasted this long.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: If you look at where we are today,
  • one could say we've come a long way.
  • What are your thoughts on that?
  • But also, what would your message
  • be to the younger generations coming up behind us?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: That's a toughie for a guy that's
  • not involved at all anymore.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, let's break it down then.
  • When you look at what we have now, gay marriage
  • and domestic partnership benefits and all this,
  • what are your thoughts on where we are today?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: I often think about the difference
  • in what we have today and what we had back then.
  • The issues are so different.
  • Back then, the issue was gay bars being raided.
  • The issue was coming out.
  • The issue was people being harassed by police
  • if they were cruising, or something like that.
  • Today, those are not issues.
  • Today, the issue is whether or not you can get married.
  • Back then, the issue was being fired at your job
  • if you were found out to be gay.
  • Today, it's not an issue.
  • At least I don't think it's an issue.
  • They have a very different atmosphere today to work with.
  • I think our task back then was a little simpler.
  • We weren't involved in these very heavy-duty issues.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: But were your tasks back then the spark
  • to get us where we are today?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: They were a spark.
  • Yes, they were a spark.
  • They took a little bit more courage
  • for some of the things that were being done.
  • They took a little bit more courage, for instance,
  • if you were going to be outed in the newspaper.
  • I was outed on the radio.
  • I had a small interview with somebody,
  • and I showed up at work.
  • I was working at that time in an automotive company,
  • a blue collar operation.
  • And I showed up at work one morning
  • and my boss said, "I heard you on the radio this morning."
  • It didn't occur to me that doing that interview
  • was going to be heard by anybody.
  • It just didn't.
  • I was just shocked that my boss--
  • but nothing happened.
  • It was interesting.
  • I was fortunate.
  • For some people, that would have been a big issue coming out
  • like that at work.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: One last question.
  • Looking back, again, at your activities in those years,
  • do you have one really significant
  • or memorable moment, or one really found moment
  • that you could share with us, that really just kind of sticks
  • in your mind, oh, I remember when that happened?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, the big event
  • or the deal that took place at Jim's bar
  • on the night of the raid.
  • That was the only raid that I was ever involved in.
  • And that really sparked--
  • it set of fire under me.
  • And then the event that took place at the top of the Plaza.
  • That was also, even though we didn't
  • get any publicity about it.
  • I don't think we gained a heck of a lot.
  • But for us, that was a very important step for us to take.
  • Because this is the first time I ever really
  • had an outing, even though most of the people in that room
  • were total strangers.
  • It was a very important event for me.
  • That's all.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Alright.
  • That's a wrap.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: A wrap.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: That's a wrap.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: A wrap, good.
  • (pause in recording)
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Can you pick it up from here?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Where was I?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, I know.
  • Well, let me ask you this in a slightly different way.
  • Well, we've got three gongs going here, hold on a second.
  • Was that it?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, ask the question and we can wait.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
  • Again, looking back at what you were doing back in those years,
  • what are you most proud of?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: What's that?
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: What are you most proud of?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, as I just said,
  • what I am most proud of is being part
  • of organizing the Gay Alliance.
  • And it certainly wasn't me alone.
  • It was the talents we had available at that time,
  • and a lot of people were involved in it.
  • And establishing a rock solid organization,
  • especially the concept of being an umbrella organization,
  • that would bring together all of the resources of the community
  • to support the movement.
  • The Empty Closet being a rock solid operation
  • that put out a newspaper every single month, without
  • fail, and is still doing it.
  • It's probably the oldest solid gay newspaper around.
  • I know that in other organizations,
  • like New York City, one month they're called this,
  • and then four months later, they're
  • called something else, because they would
  • have a revolution of some sort.
  • But we were solid here in Rochester.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, let me ask you this then.
  • You can take your time to think about this for a second.
  • But in everything that we have here,
  • the Gay Alliance, and the newspaper,
  • and all the other support groups,
  • and the University being part of all this,
  • what do you think it says it about Rochester as a community?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: It's solid.
  • I'd say that I think what distinguishes Rochester
  • is the fact that we were able to form a real solid organization,
  • and the community, I think, for the most part,
  • was supportive of it.
  • We didn't get any great resistance,
  • and that says a lot for Rochester.
  • The talent we had here within the organization, I think,
  • was probably exceptional, in terms of our willingness
  • and ability to form a rock solid organization that
  • has lasted this long.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: If you look at where we are today,
  • you know one could say we've come a long way.
  • What are your thoughts on that?
  • But also, what would your message
  • be to the younger generations coming up behind us?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: That's a toughie for a guy that's
  • not involved at all anymore.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, let's break it down then.
  • When you look at what we have now, gay marriage
  • and domestic partnership benefits and all that,
  • what are your thoughts on where we are today?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: I often think about the difference
  • in what we have today and what we had back then.
  • The issues are so different.
  • Back then the issue was gay bars being raided.
  • The issue was coming out.
  • The issue was people being harassed by police
  • if they were cruising, or something like that.
  • Today, those are not issues.
  • Today, the issue is whether or not you can get married.
  • Back then, the issue was being fired at your job
  • if you were found out to be gay.
  • Today, it's not an issue.
  • At least I don't think it's an issue.
  • They have a very different atmosphere today to work with.
  • I think our task back then was a little simpler.
  • We weren't involved in these very heavy-duty issues.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: But were your tasks back then the spark
  • to get to where we are today?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: They were a spark.
  • Yes, they were a spark.
  • They took a little bit more courage
  • for some of the things that were being done.
  • They took a little bit more courage, for instance,
  • if you were going to be outed in the newspaper.
  • I was outed on the radio.
  • I had a small interview with somebody.
  • And I showed up at work.
  • I was working at that time in an automotive company,
  • a blue collar operation.
  • And I showed up at work one morning
  • and my boss said, "I heard you on the radio this morning."
  • It didn't occur to me that doing that interview
  • was going to be heard by anybody.
  • It just didn't, and I was just shocked that my boss--
  • but nothing happened.
  • It was interesting.
  • I was fortunate.
  • For some people that would have been a big issue coming out
  • like that at work.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: One last question.
  • Looking back, again, at your activities in those years,
  • do you have one really significant or memorable
  • moment, or one really found moment
  • that you could share with us, they're really
  • just kind of sticks in your mind,
  • oh, I remember when that happened?
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, the big event
  • or the deal that took place that Jim's
  • bar on the night of the raid.
  • That was the only raid that I was ever involved in.
  • And that really sparked--
  • it set a fire under me.
  • And then the event that took place at the top of the Plaza.
  • That was all, even though we didn't
  • have any publicity about it.
  • I don't think we gained a heck of a lot.
  • But for us, that was a very important step for us to take.
  • Because this is the first time I ever really
  • had an outing, even though most of the people in that room,
  • were total strangers.
  • It was a very important event for me.
  • That's all.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: Alright.
  • That's a wrap.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: A wrap.
  • KEVIN INDOVINO: That's a wrap.
  • WHITEY LEBLANC: A wrap, good.