Video Interview, Whitey LeBlanc, April 11, 2012
- KEVIN INDOVINO: If you're talking
- and you lose your train of thought,
- just say, "You know what, I can say that better.
- Let me start again."
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah.
- UNKNOWN SPEAKER: What did he have for breakfast?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What did you have for breakfast?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: I had cereal and fruit, and coffee, and toast.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: OK.
- We are rolling.
- So I want to start in the early years.
- I want to get a sense, Whitey, from you,
- of what the gay community in Rochester
- was like in the 1960s and 1970s.
- Where did you meet people?
- Where were the kind of things that you were dealing with?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, back in the sixties and early sixties
- in Rochester, the gay community was--
- well, the meeting places was obviously the bars.
- I mean, there was no other place to get with other gay people,
- and to meet people, socialize.
- It's unfortunate, but that's where it was.
- There were, in Rochester, when I arrived in about '64,
- there were probably about five or six gay bars.
- And by the early seventies, there
- were about seven or eight I guess.
- Some were better than others.
- But that was it.
- That was where you did it.
- You met other people.
- You may have even met your partner in a bar.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Talk to me about life in general
- as a gay person in Rochester.
- Did you have to lead a double life?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, at that time, yes,
- I was leading a double life.
- I was certainly not, when I arrived in Rochester,
- I was certainly not out in the community.
- I was out among other gay friends, of course.
- But the job I had with the Boy Scouts of America was--
- you didn't say a word.
- And everything worked out fine.
- I was with them for nine years, and I left in good standing.
- I came to Rochester through the Boy Scouts there.
- I directed camps and so forth.
- And I even had a lover.
- I had a live-in lover at the time, but that was no problem.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Can you talk to me, going back
- to the bar scene, and that's the place
- that you met people, the places that you socialized.
- Back in that day, there was kind of this rule or law that says,
- same sex people can't touch when they dance.
- Talk to me about some of the things
- that you were up against, even though you were out
- at these gay bars, there were still things you couldn't do.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah.
- Well, as far as your behavior in a gay bar, dancing,
- for instance, I moved here from New York City,
- and I didn't know a single bar in New York City where there
- was steady dancing going on.
- Until I got to Rochester and moved in Rochester
- and found that there was a--
- the first bar I went into was Dick's 43.
- No longer around.
- But Dick's 43 had dancing on a steady basis, on the weekends.
- But it was not--
- let's put it this way.
- Every now and then there was no touching.
- Every now and then you could dance, but no touching.
- Or every now and then, there was no dancing at all,
- because it may be that police were coming in,
- or she expected police to come in.
- So it was, you just couldn't depend on it.
- But generally speaking, there was
- dancing going on at Dick's 43.
- That's the only place that had dancing up until,
- that I know about, up until when Jim's bar opened up
- on North Street.
- And that was later.
- That was like, in what, '73 or something like that, '74.
- There was a big back room there for dancing,
- and there was no restrictions in any way.
- It was a gay owned, and he wasn't paying
- for any kind of protection.
- He didn't have to worry about that sort of thing.
- We did get raided, however, a few times.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, we'll get to that in a moment.
- But there's one thing you touched upon that I want to get
- your opinion on is, over at Dick's 43 three was a women
- named Martha, a part-owner of Dick's.
- Tell me who Martha was, and what was she like?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, I didn't know Martha that well,
- but there were some people, some of the older people there,
- just knew her for ages and loved her and all that.
- But I did not have that feeling.
- As a matter of fact, when we were
- trying to distribute the Empty Closet, which we eventually
- began to put out every month, at the beginning of the month,
- hers was the only bar that we could not
- distribute the Empty Closet in.
- We couldn't even put a pile on the cigarette machine,
- as we did in other bars.
- "I don't believe in that," she said.
- "I don't believe in that."
- Well, and I went in there and asked her several times
- to do this.
- "I don't believe in it."
- What she didn't believe in, I don't know, but that was it.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to explore this a little bit more,
- and try to get the kind of person she was, because she was
- obviously running a gay bar.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Amen.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: And taking gay money.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Right.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But why did the gay community then
- support her is she also had these other attitudes?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, that was the only place you
- could dance for a long time.
- And that was it.
- That was the place.
- I think, see, her attitude was not
- unlike the attitude of other aspects of our living.
- And we were sort of used to that sort of thing.
- And I think you just let that wash over you,
- that kind of behavior.
- My big run in with her was about running the Empty Closet.
- I'll never forget that.
- I'll never forget her response to that.
- "I don't believe in that."
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, I have a note here from you.
- And actually in 1971, you witnessed a raid on Jim's bar.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Yes.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Tell me what happened.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Speaking of raids, I was in Jim's bar
- one night.
- It was a weekday evening.
- I happened to be standing just outside the back room, which
- is where the dancing took place, in a back room.
- There was a disc jockey booth there,
- and there was a dance floor, and the place was hopping.
- And I was standing just outside that door in the main room,
- and I noticed, as I was facing the front of the building,
- that there's this big picture window there,
- and I noticed a whole parade of uniformed police walking
- by that going toward the door.
- And I also saw them coming in the main door of the bar.
- And right away, I went into the--
- I knew this was a raid.
- Right away, I went into the dance room
- and notified Pat, who was the disk jockey there
- for many years, and told him that we're being raided.
- And he stopped the music immediately.
- And the police did come in, and they rounded everybody up,
- and told everybody to leave.
- Except that they pointed at me, and said, "Not you.
- You stay here."
- And I have to stand next to a policeman
- while everybody else was filing out of the bar.
- And I kept asking, "Why am I being held?"
- And why I was being held was that there
- was a plainclothes policemen in the bar all the time,
- and he thought I was a wise-ass for notifying
- the disk jockey I guess.
- They let me go.
- I didn't get charged or anything.
- I later found out that Jim Van Allen,
- who was the owner of that bar, was cited for the lighting was
- too low in the bar.
- They couldn't get him on dancing.
- There was no law against dancing, you see, I guess.
- So they got him on minor items.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, previous to 1971,
- I got a note here about something
- that you talked about Stonewall.
- You weren't down in New York for the Stonewall riots, were you?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: No, no.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But you were up here in Rochester by then?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Yes.
- Well, in 1969 I was in Rochester,
- but I was not involved in the movement at that point.
- I was seeing it on TV and we were
- saying to ourselves, "Holy mackerel, what's going on?"
- We couldn't believe what was going on.
- This was wonderful to see.
- And it didn't occur to us that it would
- reach Rochester in any way.
- This is something you did in New York City.
- But later, of course, we found out,
- I found out, having been given a flyer in the bar.
- One night, in 1970, I was in a bar,
- and Larry Fine, one of the guys out from University
- of Rochester, handed me a flyer inviting us to meetings out
- at Todd Union at the University of Rochester
- where the Gay Liberation Front was holding meetings.
- Of course, this was as a result of the Stonewall riots
- that probably across the country,
- campuses, college campuses, were forming
- gay organizations being inspired by the Stonewall riots.
- And so I attended a meeting on a Sunday night
- at Town Union, the very following Sunday night,
- and I got hooked.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to talk about your decision
- to go into that first meeting.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What was it that prompted you?
- Or what was it that generated a spark in you that's saying,
- oh, this is something I should go check out.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, no particular incident
- at that point caused me to go to that meeting.
- I went to that meeting out of curiosity.
- I had no idea who was going to be there, what was going on.
- I had no idea what their goal was or anything.
- I just went to the meeting because I was invited to it.
- Once I got there, I was really impressed
- by the leadership that was going on there,
- the kind of discussion that was taking place, of course.
- There was probably about twenty or thirty people
- sitting around the room, and old Walt Delaney,
- who became a lifelong friend of mine, was leading a discussion.
- I forget it was-- it's probably something like,
- how to come out with your parents, or coming out at work.
- Those were the kinds of discussions that were
- taking place at these meetings.
- Consciousness raising, they called them.
- And so I was very impressed with what was going on.
- And so I was at every single Sunday night meeting
- from then on, and eventually got involved in the operation.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, I want to touch upon a little bit about
- once you went to that meeting and found out
- what it's all about, again, what was that first impression
- that stayed with you?
- Yeah, this is definitely something
- that I want to be involved with.
- What was it that was going on at those meetings?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, what was going on
- is, I had never heard people talk seriously
- about the gay situation and how it relates to your whole life.
- Most of the time, when we got together socially,
- it was all frivolous activities.
- We were dancing or we were going to bars,
- and this was strictly socializing.
- This is the first time that I'd ever
- been involved in any kind of a discussion about my life,
- and how being gay affects it, and how
- being gay in a straight community affects everything.
- So this was, for me, it was a whole revolutionary idea.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Once you get involved, what did you do?
- What was your main mission?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, for months I was just
- helping out and making the coffee, or whatever.
- After a while, I got involved in some of this activities
- that we were participating in.
- For instance, your recalled that we talked about this gay bar
- raiding that took place at Jim's.
- Well, the very following Sunday night
- when I got to that meeting, I, of course,
- told about my experience there.
- And we decided we were going to do something about that.
- And so this was the very first gay action
- that I'd participated in.
- We decided to have a dance-in at a straight restaurant
- where there would be nothing but straight people there.
- We went to the top of the Plaza prearranged at a certain time.
- Seven couples, fourteen people, boy and girl.
- The lesbian group participated in this as well.
- And we all went as couples at an assigned time.
- We walked into the top of the Plaza at about, let's say,
- ten-thirty, eleven o'clock.
- I went there early to sort of scope
- out the situation to see if by any means they may expect us,
- or whatever.
- And so I sat at the bar drinking,
- and I did notice that there was some discussion
- about something's going to happen.
- Anyway, our people arrived.
- We sat around having drinks in separate locations.
- And at a signal, we all started dancing.
- And I don't know whether we were disappointed or not,
- but nothing happened.
- In other words, there was no real reaction.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Let's take it back a little bit
- from the point of signal.
- Make it clear to us that you started
- dancing as same sex couples.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Oh, yeah.
- That's right.
- Yeah, we got to go back on that.
- At first, we were dancing mixed boy-girl couples, and then
- all of a sudden, at a signal, we arranged
- to dance same sex couples.
- And that's where we--
- I just don't recall any kind of a reaction that
- would be negative.
- People were probably biting their lip over the situation.
- As a matter of fact, we were invited to join in--
- at that time very popular was, what
- do you call it that Jewish dance, the Hora?
- Yeah.
- It's called-- they dance in a circle.
- We were invited to join, specifically invited
- to join in on that.
- So we felt welcome.
- I'm sure the owner was not terribly pleased.
- And nothing was done.
- We decided to leave.
- And we filed out at a signal, and there was no real reaction.
- We had hoped the press would show up.
- I believe that we, and I don't remember this specifically,
- but I think we did notify the press that this
- was going to take place.
- But we didn't see any indication of that,
- nor was there anything in the papers the following day.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So let me ask you, was it worth it?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: It was worth it from several standpoints.
- Number one, from our own standpoint.
- It felt good doing it.
- Because we got no publicity on it, that was probably,
- from a public standpoint, it was probably a waste of time.
- It didn't have any effect.
- But we felt good about doing it, and that's all I can say.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I want to move back a little bit to the Gay
- Liberation Front, and when you were
- asked to move off of campus.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah.
- At one point, the University of Rochester Student Activities
- Committee, or whatever it's called-- the Student Council,
- that's what it was.
- See, the Student Council sponsored GLF.
- They provided an office.
- They provided a meeting place, a telephone,
- just like any other organization on campus.
- It became obvious after a few years
- that overwhelmingly most of the people
- sitting there in those meetings were
- non-students from the city.
- We began to feel, too, that maybe we belong in the city.
- But the student activities people
- did suggest to us that because it was mostly non-students,
- that we might be better to move off campus.
- We weren't really thrown out, but it was suggested.
- And we felt the same way.
- And therefore, we moved off campus.
- We had trouble finding a location.
- It needed to be free.
- So one of the people, a businessman man who
- was attending our meetings, Mark Hall,
- offered us space in the Bull's Head area.
- I think it was an empty--
- the back of a drugstore.
- Or I think it was also a dentist office partly.
- There was several areas there that were available to us.
- Not heated.
- There was electricity, thank goodness.
- The entrance was in the back of the building.
- It was hostile territory, because we
- did get rocks thrown into the windows,
- and so forth, after we were there for a while.
- We were meeting there with electric heaters on the floor.
- But it was all we had, and we needed it.
- During that time, the women were meeting at the Genesee Co-op.
- They had rented space there on Monroe Avenue.
- And after a while, the lesbian group
- started to invite us to share space with them.
- And we took them up on it.
- But before that happened, of course,
- we formed the Gay Alliance there.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Before we jump ahead a little bit,
- I want to talk a little bit more about Brown Street.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Yes.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: The next group at Brown Street.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: OK.
- Yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Can you describe for me the--
- you started describing a little bit,
- and I want you to describe for me a little bit more,
- the environment or the atmosphere of these meetings,
- the camaraderie.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Oh, yeah.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What was it like?
- What were you guys talking about around the table,
- that kind of thing?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: This was strictly, by the way,
- strictly a men's group on Brown Street.
- This was a men's group.
- There were some women who were still coming to it,
- but very few, because the women had split off when
- we were at GLF on Todd union.
- They split off and they were having their own meetings
- at the Co-op.
- So this was largely a men's group.
- We took the same format that we were
- doing at Todd Union at the University.
- We formed a Speakers Bureau.
- As a matter of fact, the whole operation moved.
- The Speakers Bureau, the Empty Closet, the library, everything
- moved.
- And we carried on the same operations we were having.
- Every evening we had somebody by the phones
- ready to take in calls, if anybody
- wanted to discuss anything.
- We called it our hotline.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, let's back up on that a little bit.
- Talk to me about the hotline.
- Tell me, obviously, what it was, and how it was being run.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: The hotline was our people signed up
- on a schedule to be on duty each evening,
- it'd be a different person.
- And we had a little training program
- for the people who were going to be on the hotline that night.
- And people would call in.
- We had ads in the Empty Closet, notices in the Empty Closet,
- that there was a hotline available.
- This is the same kind of operation
- that was going on at the Todd Union,
- University of Rochester, same hotline.
- So people would call in for information
- about the organization, or they would
- call in just wanted to talk to somebody that
- was gay about their situation.
- And so it was on the phone, it could turn out
- to be an on the phone counseling session.
- We also did have counseling available at the office
- for people who wanted to actually come in and talk
- to somebody.
- We had, of course, the Speakers Bureau,
- and they went out on speaking engagements
- at various schools, colleges, organizations.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Did you get a lot of calls?
- Were calls coming in regularly, and did that surprise you?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: The times that I served,
- I can't give you any numbers on that,
- but the times that I served, you might get a couple of calls
- a night, really.
- But sometimes the call that you got,
- you were darn glad you were there.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Good.
- So you guys eventually moved over to the Co-op
- and joined with the women, essentially the development
- of the GAGV, right?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, GAGV was developed before we moved.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Who developed it?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Alright, here.
- While we were at- after we moved,
- very soon after we moved, I was elected
- President of the organization.
- We called ourselves the Gay Alliance of the Genesee Valley.
- We appointed Tim Mains to draw up a constitution and bylaws,
- a committee headed by Tim Mains, to draw
- a constitution and bylaws.
- And our objective there, our goal, really,
- was to form an umbrella organization.
- And after that would get organized and put together,
- we then called the men's group the Gay Brotherhood
- of Rochester.
- So we right away separated ourselves
- as the Gay Brotherhood of Rochester, GBR.
- And when the women got involved, they were the Lesbian Resource
- Center.
- By the time we got through organizing that, the bylaws
- and all that, we were invited to join them at the Genesee Co-op.
- So that the organization, by the time
- we got to the Genesee Co-op, it was already formed.
- And we turned over the library--
- whoops.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: It's OK, just take it back.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: We turned over the library, the Empty Closet,
- all the assets, including the funds to the Gay Alliance,
- and that became the umbrella organization for the women's
- group, and the men's group, and any of the other operations
- that may be taking place.
- We invited, for instance, the small group out at Brockport.
- I think there was a small group out at Geneseo--
- if they were interested in being part of the umbrella
- organization.
- The Empty Closet was part of that.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: So let's talk about the Empty Closet.
- Talk to me about working on the Empty Closet,
- and talk to me about working in Jay's apartment, and--
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Oh, yeah, well--
- KEVIN INDOVINO: --the whole beginnings of the Empty Closet.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: The Empty Closet, and the very beginning,
- at Todd Union, at the University of Rochester,
- at Gay Liberation Front, the Empty Closet
- was put out rather sporadically.
- It was a mimeographed sheet that was put out
- whenever they got around to something,
- and needed to put out a message of some sort.
- However, a couple of us went to Jay Baker.
- We thought Jay was the guy to do this.
- We went to Jay and said, Jay, if you'll be the editor,
- we will be right there with you.
- We need to put this out every single month, come
- hell or high water.
- And Jay accepted the job.
- The Empty Closet was then moved into his living
- room on Alexander Street, and it was put out every single month.
- It was still being mimeographed at first.
- But not long after, by probably about '72,
- he had the thing printed on newsprint, offset.
- And it was being--
- with a masthead.
- It was starting to be a newspaper.
- It was not just a leaflet being turned out.
- And it was every single month.
- We met at Jay's for about a week before the issue,
- a couple of weeks before the issue date, and paste it up.
- The articles were all typed on an IBM Selectric,
- and then pasted on these sheets.
- Jay did all that stuff.
- I don't know anything about that.
- And then we would carry that to the printer, and get the paper.
- And we would have like four or five hundred copies done.
- And then on the Saturday night, the first Saturday the night
- of the month, three or four of us would grab a pile
- and go to various bars.
- And in some of the bars we would just
- put a pile on the cigarette machine, or whatever.
- And at Jim's bar, we would stand outside the door,
- and as everybody filed out of the bar at two,
- closing time, everybody got a sheet,
- everybody got a copy of the Empty Closet on their way out.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Aside from providing people
- with a local newspaper, which happened
- to be a gay newspaper, what else do you think you were providing
- these people?
- Why did the Empty Closet become such an important resource
- for the gay community?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, it was the only source
- of information that, up to that point,
- that anybody had for what's going on in the gay community,
- if anything.
- And those of us who were active in the Gay Alliance
- were concerned about-- we wanted to publicize whatever
- activities we were involved in.
- And, of course, that was done, because the Empty Closet was
- also an organ of information for the Gay Alliance,
- as well as being a general newspaper of whatever's
- going on in the gay community, locally or nationally.
- So that was the point of the whole work.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: As the first elected President of the GAGV,
- what were you hoping to achieve with the organization?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, as first President,
- my main object back then was to get the thing organized,
- get the thing registered, as a nonprofit with New York State,
- so that we would become an official organization
- and nonprofit organization.
- And, of course, to form an umbrella organization that
- would coordinate and would bring together
- the various activities that were going on,
- movement activities that were going on, in the county,
- in the general vicinity of Rochester.
- Up until that point, the lesbian group and the men's group
- was very separate.
- They had their own--
- the lesbian group needed to really talk
- about their own issues, because there were issues
- that they needed to talk about.
- And they felt that they wanted to be separate.
- But we needed to come together for many issues.
- And so the Gay Alliance was going
- to be that bond that brought us together.
- That was it.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: That's enough.
- Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out the order of asking you
- these next questions here.
- I'm just going to throw out some names at you for a moment,
- and I just want to get just quick impressions
- of these people that you worked with.
- Who they were, and what they were like to work with.
- First, Tim Mains, tell me about Tim Mains.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Tim Mains got into the organization
- because the Speakers Bureau, headed up
- by Karen Hagberg, the Speakers Bureau
- was asked to do an event out at Greece Arcadia High School.
- And Tim Mains was teaching out there, Social Studies, I think.
- And he's the one that requested the Speakers Bureau.
- They went out there, spoke, had a session with students.
- At that point, Tim was not involved with us at all.
- I don't know how out he was at all.
- I doubt if he was out at school.
- However, the reaction at the school was interesting.
- Parents, of course, reacted to this,
- and it was mostly parents who--
- none of them, of course, were in the session.
- A lot of people who were complaining about it,
- we later found out, that their kids
- weren't even in the session.
- There was a positive reaction among teachers,
- but there was a lot of parent, as I understand
- it, as I recall, there was a lot of parent negative reaction
- to this thing.
- And Tim, of course, had to deal with that.
- Eventually, Tim started coming to our meetings,
- and that's how he got involved.
- Because his contact with the Speakers Bureau there,
- he sniffed around the organization,
- and got very involved with us.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What about his contributions?
- Because in talking to Tim, he was
- identified as someone who could write the bylaws
- for your organization.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah, right away it
- was obvious that this is a guy that we needed.
- We needed his talents.
- And the best thing he could do, would be to--
- he's the kind of guy that would do a good job on something
- like a constitution, because he's
- a very detailed man, detailed.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Talk to me about Jay Baker.
- What was he like?
- And what was his contributions?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Jay Baker taught out at MCC,
- and he was a very humorous guy.
- But he also had a good talent for putting together
- that paper.
- Now, of course, the columns weren't always straight, and--
- but by gosh, the thing got out.
- And it was put together on time.
- And we had a place to work, his living room.
- He even lost his roommate over this.
- So I've remained a good friend of Jay Baker ever since.
- We've been close friends ever since then.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: How about Karen, Karen Hagberg?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Karen Hagberg, at that time,
- ran the Speakers Bureau.
- There, very, very talented woman who did a great job with that.
- Trained our Speakers Bureau people.
- That's all I can say there.
- Who else?
- Patti?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Patti Evans?
- Patti Evans was, as I recall, she
- was interested in political action.
- She was one of the original people with Bob Osborn, and RJ
- Alcala, and Larry Fine.
- These are the people who really formed the original Gay
- Liberation Front.
- And Osborn, I believe, was the real force behind forming that.
- Patti was one of the original people,
- and it seemed like if there's any political action going on,
- any discussion about the political action, Patti
- was involved in that.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, talking about the political action--
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Which I was not terribly involved with.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: No, but you were there, part of the--
- were you part of that CETA funding debacle?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: As far as the CETA funding goes,
- I was not President any longer.
- Michael Robertson, he succeeded me as President,
- and he was the right guy for that job.
- I was not the right guy for that job.
- I knew when to get out.
- That CETA funding was a big issue,
- and it was a very important issue, not just
- because for the funding we got.
- It was the publicity that we got.
- It was the newspaper coverage that was given at the time.
- We were in the paper every week on that subject.
- So this gave us great exposure.
- That's the way I look at it.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: I'm just checking my notes here
- to make sure I'm not skipping over anything.
- The first gay picnics, do you remember those?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: OK.
- Yeah.
- The gay picnic, back in--
- I want to refer to something, see what year that was.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Was it '73?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah.
- In about 1973, regarding the gay picnic, Ducky,
- who was the manager, and I believe
- at that time, the owner of Jim's bar, came to us and said,
- I'll provide a keg of beer out at Genesee Valley Park
- if you want to have a picnic.
- And this was the very first gay community picnic.
- Probably about forty people showed up.
- This was really just Gay Liberation Front people and Gay
- Alliance people, very small.
- We had a good time, but it was just a small picnic.
- Following that picnic, however, we said,
- we can do a better job.
- So I was no longer President of the Gay Alliance.
- I took the job, and weeks and weeks before the following year
- in July, weeks and weeks before this thing,
- we started publicizing the thing.
- We got a couple hundred people there.
- Ducky arranged for Genesee Brewery to provide free beer.
- We got some hots, Zweigle's hots, and some buns,
- and some stuff, and we provided--
- a couple hundred people showed up.
- And then the following year, a couple of more hundred people
- showed up.
- And finally, we were--
- I did it for six years.
- And by the time I got through doing it,
- we probably had eight or nine hundred people.
- I don't remember.
- I don't remember the totals, but we were growing every year.
- We had games.
- We had tug of war between the lesbians and the men's group.
- We had all kinds of things.
- But it developed into a big event at Genesee Valley Park.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Expanding on that a little bit, why
- do you think it became so significant?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, we knew that, for instance,
- Erie, Pennsylvania, for many, many years,
- had a huge gay picnic.
- I think Buffalo did too, before we even started.
- And so we were sort of inspired by the fact
- that those communities can do it, we can do it.
- As far as I was concerned, this was a very important event,
- because it was a social event that didn't involve bars.
- It was a mass event, where lesbians and gay men
- could come together.
- We had the speakers.
- What's her name?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Midge?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: The Vice-Mayor of Rochester.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, Midge Costanza.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Yeah, Costanza.
- Midge Costanza spoke at one of our things.
- We had raffles, sold raffle tickets.
- One year we did a bike.
- Then we started getting each of the gay bars
- to donate to help subsidize the picnic.
- Because actually, we were only charging like three bucks
- for the picnic.
- About three dollars is what I recall.
- Several years, we had a meeting in my backyard of all the bar
- owners to get their support, and to get the pledge for one
- hundred bucks a piece.
- And we would come up with four or five, five or six hundred
- dollars.
- Not everybody did it, but most of the bars did.
- And that would subsidize some of the operation.
- Because we were getting free beer Genesee Brewery.
- That was a big thing.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: When you stood in that park,
- whether it was year one or year six, or whatever,
- and you saw this mass of people coming together,
- what do it make you feel inside?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Very proud.
- Very proud.
- I felt very proud to see that kind
- of a gathering in Rochester, rivaling
- what they were doing in Erie, Pennsylvania
- that we had heard about.
- And some of our people had even attended those things
- and came back with stories.
- Yeah, for me, it was a very proud event.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: When you look back
- over the years, in more of a general sense,
- but what do you think your greatest accomplishment has
- been in what you've done for the gay community here
- in Rochester?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, this is all very long ago,
- because I'm not active right now at all,
- and I haven't been active for many, many years.
- I've been supportive, but not active.
- I think the forming of the Gay Alliance,
- the idea we had to form an umbrella organization,
- to provide the services that we did,
- and to make the Empty Closet a solid rock that has existed,
- without fail, ever since.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Hold that thought.
- We have church bells going off.
- (pause in recording)
- Can you pick it up from there?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Where was I?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, I know.
- Well, let me ask you this in a slightly different way.
- Well, we've got three gongs going here, hold on a second.
- Was that it?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, ask the question and we can wait.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- Again, looking back at what you were doing back in those years,
- what are you most proud of?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: What's that?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What are you most proud of?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, as I just said,
- what I'm most proud of is being part
- of organizing the Gay Alliance.
- And it certainly wasn't me alone.
- It was the talents we had available at that time,
- and a lot of people were involved in it.
- And establishing a rock solid organization,
- especially the concept of being an umbrella organization,
- that would bring together all of the resources of the community
- to support the movement.
- The Empty Closet being a rock solid operation
- that put out a newspaper every single month, without
- fail, and is still doing it.
- It's probably the oldest solid gay newspaper around.
- I know that in other organizations,
- like New York City, one month they're called this,
- and then four months later, they're
- called something else, because they would
- have a revolution of some sort.
- But we were solid here in Rochester.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, let me ask you this then.
- You can take the time to think about this for a second.
- But in everything that we have, the Gay Alliance,
- and the newspaper, and all the other support groups,
- and the University being part of all
- of this, what do you think it says
- about Rochester as a community?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: It's solid.
- I'd say that I think what distinguishes Rochester
- is the fact that we were able to form a real solid organization,
- and the community, I think, for the most part,
- was supportive of it.
- We didn't get any great resistance,
- and that says a lot for Rochester.
- The talent we had here within the organization, I think,
- was probably exceptional, in terms of our willingness
- and ability to form a rock solid organization that
- has lasted this long.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: If you look at where we are today,
- one could say we've come a long way.
- What are your thoughts on that?
- But also, what would your message
- be to the younger generations coming up behind us?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: That's a toughie for a guy that's
- not involved at all anymore.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, let's break it down then.
- When you look at what we have now, gay marriage
- and domestic partnership benefits and all this,
- what are your thoughts on where we are today?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: I often think about the difference
- in what we have today and what we had back then.
- The issues are so different.
- Back then, the issue was gay bars being raided.
- The issue was coming out.
- The issue was people being harassed by police
- if they were cruising, or something like that.
- Today, those are not issues.
- Today, the issue is whether or not you can get married.
- Back then, the issue was being fired at your job
- if you were found out to be gay.
- Today, it's not an issue.
- At least I don't think it's an issue.
- They have a very different atmosphere today to work with.
- I think our task back then was a little simpler.
- We weren't involved in these very heavy-duty issues.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But were your tasks back then the spark
- to get us where we are today?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: They were a spark.
- Yes, they were a spark.
- They took a little bit more courage
- for some of the things that were being done.
- They took a little bit more courage, for instance,
- if you were going to be outed in the newspaper.
- I was outed on the radio.
- I had a small interview with somebody,
- and I showed up at work.
- I was working at that time in an automotive company,
- a blue collar operation.
- And I showed up at work one morning
- and my boss said, "I heard you on the radio this morning."
- It didn't occur to me that doing that interview
- was going to be heard by anybody.
- It just didn't.
- I was just shocked that my boss--
- but nothing happened.
- It was interesting.
- I was fortunate.
- For some people, that would have been a big issue coming out
- like that at work.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: One last question.
- Looking back, again, at your activities in those years,
- do you have one really significant
- or memorable moment, or one really found moment
- that you could share with us, that really just kind of sticks
- in your mind, oh, I remember when that happened?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, the big event
- or the deal that took place at Jim's bar
- on the night of the raid.
- That was the only raid that I was ever involved in.
- And that really sparked--
- it set of fire under me.
- And then the event that took place at the top of the Plaza.
- That was also, even though we didn't
- get any publicity about it.
- I don't think we gained a heck of a lot.
- But for us, that was a very important step for us to take.
- Because this is the first time I ever really
- had an outing, even though most of the people in that room
- were total strangers.
- It was a very important event for me.
- That's all.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Alright.
- That's a wrap.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: A wrap.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: That's a wrap.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: A wrap, good.
- (pause in recording)
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Can you pick it up from here?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Where was I?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah, I know.
- Well, let me ask you this in a slightly different way.
- Well, we've got three gongs going here, hold on a second.
- Was that it?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, ask the question and we can wait.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Yeah.
- Again, looking back at what you were doing back in those years,
- what are you most proud of?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: What's that?
- KEVIN INDOVINO: What are you most proud of?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, as I just said,
- what I am most proud of is being part
- of organizing the Gay Alliance.
- And it certainly wasn't me alone.
- It was the talents we had available at that time,
- and a lot of people were involved in it.
- And establishing a rock solid organization,
- especially the concept of being an umbrella organization,
- that would bring together all of the resources of the community
- to support the movement.
- The Empty Closet being a rock solid operation
- that put out a newspaper every single month, without
- fail, and is still doing it.
- It's probably the oldest solid gay newspaper around.
- I know that in other organizations,
- like New York City, one month they're called this,
- and then four months later, they're
- called something else, because they would
- have a revolution of some sort.
- But we were solid here in Rochester.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, let me ask you this then.
- You can take your time to think about this for a second.
- But in everything that we have here,
- the Gay Alliance, and the newspaper,
- and all the other support groups,
- and the University being part of all this,
- what do you think it says it about Rochester as a community?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: It's solid.
- I'd say that I think what distinguishes Rochester
- is the fact that we were able to form a real solid organization,
- and the community, I think, for the most part,
- was supportive of it.
- We didn't get any great resistance,
- and that says a lot for Rochester.
- The talent we had here within the organization, I think,
- was probably exceptional, in terms of our willingness
- and ability to form a rock solid organization that
- has lasted this long.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: If you look at where we are today,
- you know one could say we've come a long way.
- What are your thoughts on that?
- But also, what would your message
- be to the younger generations coming up behind us?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: That's a toughie for a guy that's
- not involved at all anymore.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Well, let's break it down then.
- When you look at what we have now, gay marriage
- and domestic partnership benefits and all that,
- what are your thoughts on where we are today?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: I often think about the difference
- in what we have today and what we had back then.
- The issues are so different.
- Back then the issue was gay bars being raided.
- The issue was coming out.
- The issue was people being harassed by police
- if they were cruising, or something like that.
- Today, those are not issues.
- Today, the issue is whether or not you can get married.
- Back then, the issue was being fired at your job
- if you were found out to be gay.
- Today, it's not an issue.
- At least I don't think it's an issue.
- They have a very different atmosphere today to work with.
- I think our task back then was a little simpler.
- We weren't involved in these very heavy-duty issues.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: But were your tasks back then the spark
- to get to where we are today?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: They were a spark.
- Yes, they were a spark.
- They took a little bit more courage
- for some of the things that were being done.
- They took a little bit more courage, for instance,
- if you were going to be outed in the newspaper.
- I was outed on the radio.
- I had a small interview with somebody.
- And I showed up at work.
- I was working at that time in an automotive company,
- a blue collar operation.
- And I showed up at work one morning
- and my boss said, "I heard you on the radio this morning."
- It didn't occur to me that doing that interview
- was going to be heard by anybody.
- It just didn't, and I was just shocked that my boss--
- but nothing happened.
- It was interesting.
- I was fortunate.
- For some people that would have been a big issue coming out
- like that at work.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: One last question.
- Looking back, again, at your activities in those years,
- do you have one really significant or memorable
- moment, or one really found moment
- that you could share with us, they're really
- just kind of sticks in your mind,
- oh, I remember when that happened?
- WHITEY LEBLANC: Well, the big event
- or the deal that took place that Jim's
- bar on the night of the raid.
- That was the only raid that I was ever involved in.
- And that really sparked--
- it set a fire under me.
- And then the event that took place at the top of the Plaza.
- That was all, even though we didn't
- have any publicity about it.
- I don't think we gained a heck of a lot.
- But for us, that was a very important step for us to take.
- Because this is the first time I ever really
- had an outing, even though most of the people in that room,
- were total strangers.
- It was a very important event for me.
- That's all.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: Alright.
- That's a wrap.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: A wrap.
- KEVIN INDOVINO: That's a wrap.
- WHITEY LEBLANC: A wrap, good.